Championship games, same as it ever was. As much as things change, they stay the same. Elite QB play still looks extremely important to advance to the Super Bowl.
How Daniel Jones is the convo. Brady (probable GOAT), Rodgers (Insane level passer, 3 MVPs to Brees’ 0), Mahomes (future GOAT candidate trajectory), Allen (baaad man, carrying the Franchise on his back and possibly could be the new Elway in some eyes).
Those are the dudes who are contending for a Super Bowl. Can Daniel Jones be one of them? Very likely NOT unless the rest of the team improves greatly.
Daniel Jones is a predicament. Is it coaching? Is it the GM/FO? He regressed hard in his 2nd year which is where the Josh Allen comps fall apart. Can he be THAT guy as oppposed to a Kirk Cousins level “guy”? I’m leaning heavily towards no at this point. I hope he puts it together but if we give him year 3 and he’s another Trubisky, this team is looking for someone else. Jones, from Duke, was supposed to be a smart QB. The fact that he has struggled with QB IQ makes me lean towards looking for a better option if the Giants can land someone who qualifies. Especially since he’s not great in terms of physical talent/potential (like a Josh Allen).
Take a look at jones last seaso and jones this year. Purely throwing the football. Totally different schemes and jones has looked great in Shurmur and solid in garrets. Garrets offense stinks. He needs an elite tight end, which we don’t have. He needs a feature back, who was hurt. He needs big bodied WRs to move the chains, which we don’t have.
Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.
Take a look at jones last seaso and jones this year. Purely throwing the football. Totally different schemes and jones has looked great in Shurmur and solid in garrets. Garrets offense stinks. He needs an elite tight end, which we don’t have. He needs a feature back, who was hurt. He needs big bodied WRs to move the chains, which we don’t have.
Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.
Jones failed both the eye test and statistically in 2020. He did nothing this season to show "he's the goods".
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
the crowd bashing Jones likes to call these excuses, but even this point right here was fairly damning:
Quote:
Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.
the crowd bashing Jones likes to call these excuses, but even this point right here was fairly damning:
Quote:
Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.
Imv? The majority of us know this. Mitigating circumstances have always been part and parcel of true objectivity, I believe
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.
Your right. The educated posters on this site, Some have commented directly above this, know the game and understand what they see. Others, who obsess over fantasy football, focus on touchdowns numbers ints just disregard the total lack of talent that jones has. What we are saying, 56, fmic, saquads should be obvious to all but it isn’t.
Your right. The educated posters on this site, Some have commented directly above this, know the game and understand what they see. Others, who obsess over fantasy football, focus on touchdowns numbers ints just disregard the total lack of talent that jones has. What we are saying, 56, fmic, saquads should be obvious to all but it isn’t.
Take a look at jones last seaso and jones this year. Purely throwing the football. Totally different schemes and jones has looked great in Shurmur and solid in garrets. Garrets offense stinks. He needs an elite tight end, which we don’t have. He needs a feature back, who was hurt. He needs big bodied WRs to move the chains, which we don’t have.
Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.
This is one of those posts that makes me wonder if I'm living in the Matrix and there's a whole different world where Jones was not awful in 2020.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently
No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.
I'd like to point out that you and FMiC routinely insult and curse people who are down on Jones. You should raise the level of your rhetoric. When you result to insults and random cursing it shows you have lost the argument.
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.
I'd like to point out that you and FMiC routinely insult and curse people who are down on Jones. You should raise the level of your rhetoric. When you result to insults and random cursing it shows you have lost the argument.
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
Triggered much? Take your morning meds
I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently
No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....
Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...
QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.
Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently
No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....
Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...
QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.
Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.
Hmmm.
Well, when you only throw 11 TDs adding one more to that small of a total in error is actually fairly material.
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
Triggered much? Take your morning meds
I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
Triggered much? Take your morning meds
I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.
I guess I need to go back and re-watch the entire season because apparently Jones had a terrific year in 2020.
Yes, its mind boggling. The rationalization gone through to spin Jones as actually having had a good season in 2020 and not being one of the 2 or 3 worst starting qbs in the sport is something to behold. I particularly like the Josh Allen argument, which conveniently ignores the fact that Allen improved between year 1 and 2 in the league whereas Jones fell off a proverbial cliff in year 2.
Jones will get weapons in the offseason, even if it means the Giants overpay to their detriment. Because we know one thing, the Giants brass is completely reactionary to - and might I add, misreads - fan sentiment. Its what led to them holding on Eli a year too long. It's what led them to panic drafting (i.e., Eli is DONE!!) a qb in the top 10 when most had the a 2nd round or lower grade on the prospect. No doubt they have heard the grumblings that Jones doesn't have enough weapons. So we'll see if Jones has any skills resembling a top 10 qb next year with his new toys.
I also find it amazing that we declare Jones has a bottom 2 or 3 oline (in addition to no weapons), but do not fault the person responsible for drafting assembling that line, to which valuable resources have been dedicated over the past 3 years. It really harkens back to the rank and file defending the Giants decisions at any cost. It couldn't have been the wrong decision, otherwise the Giants wouldn't have made it!
the crowd bashing Jones likes to call these excuses, but even this point right here was fairly damning:
Quote:
Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.
So the receiving corps that your guy Gettleman had three years to assemble is awful, right ? Hence DJs lackluster production?
Those are the dudes who are contending for a Super Bowl. Can Daniel Jones be one of them? Very likely NOT unless the rest of the team improves greatly.
Daniel Jones is a predicament. Is it coaching? Is it the GM/FO? He regressed hard in his 2nd year which is where the Josh Allen comps fall apart. Can he be THAT guy as oppposed to a Kirk Cousins level “guy”? I’m leaning heavily towards no at this point. I hope he puts it together but if we give him year 3 and he’s another Trubisky, this team is looking for someone else. Jones, from Duke, was supposed to be a smart QB. The fact that he has struggled with QB IQ makes me lean towards looking for a better option if the Giants can land someone who qualifies. Especially since he’s not great in terms of physical talent/potential (like a Josh Allen).
Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.
Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.
Jones failed both the eye test and statistically in 2020. He did nothing this season to show "he's the goods".
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.
Quote:
Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.
Imv? The majority of us know this. Mitigating circumstances have always been part and parcel of true objectivity, I believe
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.
Let’s hope we’re right, buddy..:)
Jones improved by numbers and eye test. Move away from the TD numbers for a second because those are situational partly( davante Adam’s I believe has scored 9 touchdowns inside the 5 yard. That’s largely scheme based and play calling. Most teams would have run the ball more removing about 7 touchdowns from Adam’s total. Jones was able to improve his fumbling and ints. He was playing smarter football. It’s clear as day he’s the goods. He needs to be in an offense that is more geared to his skill set which IMO is more back shoulder throws. More seams. More deep crosses. This dink and dunk Garret system is hurting jones progress. Now, I pause and think to myself, okay Garret lost saquon right off the bat. His entire game plan probably tossed upside down. Secondly dealing with a crap line until judge took over probably made Garret go to a quick passing game. Quick hitters aren’t how you win In the nfl. You need chunk plays plain and simple. Adding a legit big bodied WR to this exact team would turn things around for jones and the offense. I’d take a strong look at Arob or Golladay and highly consider drafting slater at 11. Worse case he kicks into right guard and he’s an all pro. I feel that strongly about him.
This is one of those posts that makes me wonder if I'm living in the Matrix and there's a whole different world where Jones was not awful in 2020.
No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
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If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.
I'd like to point out that you and FMiC routinely insult and curse people who are down on Jones. You should raise the level of your rhetoric. When you result to insults and random cursing it shows you have lost the argument.
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If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
Triggered much? Take your morning meds
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In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:
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If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
I'm pretty sure Jones banged Producers mom and sister. Or it's Terps dupe.
I'd like to point out that you and FMiC routinely insult and curse people who are down on Jones. You should raise the level of your rhetoric. When you result to insults and random cursing it shows you have lost the argument.
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In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:
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If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
Triggered much? Take your morning meds
I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.
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Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently
No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....
Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...
QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.
Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.
Hmmm.
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In comment 15128688 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently
No you won't, because he only threw 11. And there's no way to sugarcoat how bad that is. Hell, that's what Dave Brown was doing 25 years ago in a much more difficult environment for passing, and let's not pretend that the 1995-96 Giants had any better skill players than Jones has. Chris Calloway, Thomas Lewis, the corpse of Mike Sherrard, Aaron Pierce, ol' stonehands Howard Cross.....
Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...
QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.
Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.
Hmmm.
Well, when you only throw 11 TDs adding one more to that small of a total in error is actually fairly material.
Yes, it was only 11. But who's counting...
QBR takes into account dropped passes, interceptions caused by the receiver, poor protection, etc.
Despite all of those variables considered, Jones still only finished 21st in the league in QBR.
Hmmm.
21st QBR isn't that bad when you consider that the offense couldn't create opportunities for passing TDs and he's a second year QB.
Josh Allen was 24th last year going by this metric. And this is why these metrics aren't the be all and ell. They are still situationally dependant.
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In comment 15128837 Producer said:
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In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:
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If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
Triggered much? Take your morning meds
I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.
Best day I've had in 4 years!
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In comment 15128841 Saquads26 said:
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In comment 15128837 Producer said:
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In comment 15128677 Tuckrule said:
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If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
Some fans like to see what they want. Put Justin Herbert on the giants. He’s doing absolutely nothing and that’s coming from a guy that loved Herbert in college. The reality of the situation is poor talent. Poor line play. Bad WRs. Simple route concepts by Garret. Give jones a true 1 WR. Make Engram at best the 4th option behind a true 1, sterling Shepard and Barkley. If Engram is the focal point of the offense your offense is garbage regardless of the QB situation.
dude.. if you can't SEE the difference between Herbert and Jones as QB talents you have no clue what you are looking at. Cosell, for instance, has been blown away by Herbert. Herbert is a star with star QB traits. I can't even find an update by Cosell on jones, and i have been scouring the podcasts. My guess is it is because he doesn't think he is special, much less "has the goods". If I had to guess Cosell would say, some good things, some bad things, has to be more consistent if he is to be a competent QB.
Make no mistake... nobody with knowledge of QBs thinks Jones is in the same galaxy as Herbert as a talent. And I ask you, don't you want to have an elite QB talent for the Giants? Why are you opposed to that?
Triggered much? Take your morning meds
I think you're the one who is triggered. I imagine today is a tough day for you.
Best day I've had in 4 years!
we agree on something ;) go Giants!
Yes, its mind boggling. The rationalization gone through to spin Jones as actually having had a good season in 2020 and not being one of the 2 or 3 worst starting qbs in the sport is something to behold. I particularly like the Josh Allen argument, which conveniently ignores the fact that Allen improved between year 1 and 2 in the league whereas Jones fell off a proverbial cliff in year 2.
Jones will get weapons in the offseason, even if it means the Giants overpay to their detriment. Because we know one thing, the Giants brass is completely reactionary to - and might I add, misreads - fan sentiment. Its what led to them holding on Eli a year too long. It's what led them to panic drafting (i.e., Eli is DONE!!) a qb in the top 10 when most had the a 2nd round or lower grade on the prospect. No doubt they have heard the grumblings that Jones doesn't have enough weapons. So we'll see if Jones has any skills resembling a top 10 qb next year with his new toys.
I also find it amazing that we declare Jones has a bottom 2 or 3 oline (in addition to no weapons), but do not fault the person responsible for drafting assembling that line, to which valuable resources have been dedicated over the past 3 years. It really harkens back to the rank and file defending the Giants decisions at any cost. It couldn't have been the wrong decision, otherwise the Giants wouldn't have made it!
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Producer
Tuckrule : 8:59 am : link : reply
If he failed the eye test I’d suggest watching a new sports. 7 int when throwing to Engram. Just let that sink in. He was the NUMBER 1 TARGETED PLAYER FOR JONES THIS YEAR. 57 percent catch rate on 109 targets. That is atrocious. It’s unheard of actually. Not to mention he had a bottom 2 offensive line.
More than half of Jones' INT's came on targets to Engram, and on those picks, all but one of the passes were tipped. The other one, Engram slipped and fell.
Now you'll hear, BUT HE ONLY THREW 12 TD'S!! And they'll scream it frequently. But ask them who the red zone target was. Ask them if you really wanted the ball going to Engram and his ridiculously low catch % in the end zone.
So the receiving corps that your guy Gettleman had three years to assemble is awful, right ? Hence DJs lackluster production?