It is the place that makes sense and the Osweiler trade gives some framework for this to happen.
It would take about $15M of Indy cap space which is about what it took for the Browns to trade for Osweiler in a deal that also netted them Houston's 2nd round pick.
The Eagles will undoubtedly argue that despite Wentz's struggles, there is no comparing Wentz and Osweiler and they would be right, but when there is only one buyer - you pay a premium.
a Watson fit with Indy (picks are too late and they won't part with any of their young D core).
But intrigued to see what they do for QB (wonder if they look at a Trey Lance/Mac Jones), or they see if a deal for Stafford might be possible.
After all the hubbub of giant carousel of QBs moving, it looks like Ryan will stay in Atlanta, Garoppolo in SF (still early), and NO will probably stick with internal transition at least for one year trial on Winston. Doesn't look like Carolina is going to budge just yet off Bridgewater either next year.
Campbell being hired makes me think they're going to try and get one last run with Stafford in DET.
But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
There is debate whether Eli is a HOFer, let alone first ballot. I don't believe there should be much debate on it, but there is.
IMO, all of Rivers, Eli, and Ben are HOFers. Ben has the titles and the regular season stats/winning record. Rivers lacks the postseason success that Eli has, but Eli lacks the regular season stats/record that Rivers has. Will be interesting to see how the HOF voters view it, but I view them as relative equals, with maybe Eli a step above for the two title runs.
but could never win the big game, even when surrounded by talent on both sides of the ball. HOFer? In my opinion, yes, eventually, but not so sure a first ballot. Eli is up a year before with two rings- this will be a good litmus test for Rivers.
But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
N
My thoughts exactly. If Ben and Drew do both retire this year, which is entirely possible, the line is too long. And even without one or both of them, Rivers in my opinion is not worthy of first ballot honors. HOF? Yes. First ballot, I don’t think so.
stats because of his longevity and sheer durability. Once he became the full-time starter in 2006, Rivers went 15 years in a row starting every single game of the regular season until his retirement. Remarkable.
Rivers had a lot of very good regular seasons and while he probably still threw more interceptions than you would like to see, his winning percentage, td/int ratio and quarterback ratings are all somewhat higher than Eli Manning's. Rivers also made it to 8 Pro Bowls (and 2 more as an alternate) which isn't too shabby.
The difference obviously lies in the playoffs where Eli was able to raise up his game during two incredible Super Bowl runs, leading the team to victories and winning MVPs. Rivers made it to the playoffs plenty but his performances were several notches below his regular season successes and he never made it to the big game.
Imv, Manning is a sure Hall of Famer because of the two rings although may need to wait it out a year or so unfortunately.
Phillips I think is a tougher call but ultimately makes it thru at some point because he was indeed one of the top regular season QBs for so many years. But its close.
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
QBs who make the Hall of Fame never having won anything
The Chargers were close over the years, but just not quite good enough. The late game INT against Brady in 2006 that they immediately fumbled is the play that I think best defines the Chargers during the Rivers era.
I do think one borderline flaw in Rivers' game that kept him from the truly elite was that he lacked zip on his throws outside the hashes, which is something that would be noticeable in "clutch" situations. On the flipside, he threw such a pretty deep ball (especially for how ugly his throwing motion was). In terms of "touch", I think both Rivers and Brees are about as good as any QB I've ever seen.
is considered a slam dunk HOF and people question whether Eli will get in. Makes no sense to me. I really don't care about Rivers one way or the other but if people are talking about him as first ballot how can they keep Eli out?
I saw it mentioned that Brady will out last all 3 of the potential HOF guys from 04 and that really is incredible. No one will ever convince me that Brady is "the goat". In my opinion he's not even the best QB of his era. But playing at the level he did this year at 43? Amazing.
RE: I thought Philip Rivers showed more than enough
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
I had a SB ticket on two teams the Colts being one of them. Halfway through the season it was pretty clear Rivers was toast. His feet are like cement now. Even with that wall for an offensive line it was pretty clear my ticket wasn't hitting. Rivers put up stats this year because of his backs. They would be much better off using that money to upgrade and probably told him as much.
To me the biggest argument about him being a HOF seems
to come from the players and coaches which goes pretty damn far.
Anyone that cares to look at the link, breaks down statistically why he deserves it, and it's adjusted for era.
Guy was a very good QB that had a ton of longevity in the league and was consistently very good. The Chargers had crap around him for most his career and pretty much his only chance at SB was in his early career. The Chargers are also a team that seem to have had a season-altering injury in camp every year the last 10 years, pretty crazy. Link - ( New Window )
I thought he had 1 year left of good football. After a shaky start, from week 6 on he had a 100 rating, 268 yds/game, 20 tds, and 6 picks. Then had a pretty good game in the playoffs. Good luck to him though
Damn. Can remember the debates at the lunch table and online over taking Rivers or Eli and the rumors of Kurt Warner. The one guy who had his sights set on Ben Roethlisberger. Early 2004 was my junior year of high school.
The things you remember and take with you. When football was the most important thing in your life.
Oh, wait. 17 years later, it still is. Can this fucking thing get back to winning? Who cares about Philip Rivers? The silver medal quarterback of that class. No Super Bowls.
performed in the NFL. I wanted nothing to do with him in the '04 draft with that sling throwing motion. Saw Bernie Kosar, 2.0.
But what a great career this guy had. I couldn't have been more wrong on how he performed. Did not have great playoff success, but a lot of that was bad timing playing in the AFC with Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger.
Not sure he's first ballot, but he will get into Canton.
great quote from JJ Watt on Rivers, who has been known to trash-talk opponents all the time (but never using expletives).
"Rivers calls out to one of our LB's prior to the snap and tells him he's out of position for the blitz we were about to run, and he was absolutely right!"
Rivers played on many loaded teams which were predicted to win the SB. He had many top notch skill position players
and far better offensive lineman in most of his years than
Eli. He was a bit of a garbage time QB who never won anything
performed in the NFL. I wanted nothing to do with him in the '04 draft with that sling throwing motion. Saw Bernie Kosar, 2.0.
But what a great career this guy had. I couldn't have been more wrong on how he performed. Did not have great playoff success, but a lot of that was bad timing playing in the AFC with Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger.
Not sure he's first ballot, but he will get into Canton.
I am still stunned!!!! However he makes it works, he does. I mean still, even in the playoff games, he was shortarming the ball into the tighest windows. Great anticipation I suppose and understands what he sees.
Had a great career, stats and longevity, that will get him the HOF eventually, and also because he's part of one of the best QB classes of all time does help him.
great quote from JJ Watt on Rivers, who has been known to trash-talk opponents all the time (but never using expletives).
"Rivers calls out to one of our LB's prior to the snap and tells him he's out of position for the blitz we were about to run, and he was absolutely right!"
Another good ones is Rivers running down the field yelling at a defender after a big play:
"You talked the whole game, now you're on MUTE!!!"
performed in the NFL. I wanted nothing to do with him in the '04 draft with that sling throwing motion. Saw Bernie Kosar, 2.0.
He was considered an early 2nd round prospect by the draftniks before his showing at the Senior Bowl working with the Chargers staff. I remember the announcers watching all the QBs struggle and explaining how they are working with unfamiliar receivers, etc, etc, and then Rivers steps on the field and it was like he was playing catch in the backyard as he moved the offense down field with ease. The difference between him and the other QBs that day was eye opening. The Chargers fell in love with him (full bloom I here!)...
That are neither strong armed nor especially athletic, they just have such a mental command of the field and an instinct for speading through their progressions and finding the open man. Joe Montana and Tom Brady are the best examples, but I think Rivers also falls into that category.
This year's multi-million dollar question: Does Mac Jones belong in that category?
The main knock on Rivers will likely be his lack of playoff success
and championships, since he never made it to the Super Bowl. Everybody who played for the Vikings in the 60s and 70s, who had four Super Bowl losses, got docked at least a year, like Alan Page (1 year), Fran Tarkenton (3 years), Carl Eller (25 years), and Mick Tingelhoff (32 years), to give examples.
in 2018 . It took 2 years for the rest of him to catch up. I can’t see how he is an HOFer. I don’t have any problem with someone questioning whether Eli should get in , although I think he will . But it makes me sad that Phil Simms never got in . He’s better than both Eli & Rivers .
That are neither strong armed nor especially athletic, they just have such a mental command of the field and an instinct for speading through their progressions and finding the open man. Joe Montana and Tom Brady are the best examples, but I think Rivers also falls into that category.
This year's multi-million dollar question: Does Mac Jones belong in that category?
Mac Jones belong in the question even? Hard to argue he has the mental aspect when everything is beyond easy for him.
People get lost in the measurables, and generally, you need a certain amoutn to be succesful, but it's all about the mental makeup of these guys. Not just on the field, but what they are doing off it. That is the MOST important thing.
in 2018 . It took 2 years for the rest of him to catch up. I can’t see how he is an HOFer. I don’t have any problem with someone questioning whether Eli should get in , although I think he will . But it makes me sad that Phil Simms never got in . He’s better than both Eli & Rivers .
The big knock on Simms is likely his injury history; it took him until his sixth season to start a whole season and that likely hurt his stats. He also only made the Pro Bowl twice (likely due to playing in the era of quarterbacks like Montana, Elway, Kelly, and Marino to name a few) and the Giants' passing game wasn't deemed as important; even with the 1986 Giants they won in spite of their passing game and Simms threw more interceptions than touchdowns that year.
RE: QBs who make the Hall of Fame never having won anything
should have to be otherwise legendary figures: transcendent talents.
Marino, Moon, Tarkenton, Kelly are in the Hall without ever winning championships.
Moon aside, the other three at least got to the title game and lost.
Rivers was never a top 3 QB in the NFL, likely never top 5 in any one season, but not 100% confident his best season or two didn't crack that.
He should have to buy a ticket to the Hall of Fame.
He went to the pro bowl 8 times. Only 6 QBs make the pro bowl every year. You don't think he was EVER a top 5 QB in any given year?
You go to that many pro bowls, put up the career numbers he had, have the longevity and durability that he had, you deserve to go to the HOF in my opinion. He's the greatest QB to never play in a super bowl IMO. I don't think the HOF should be limited to only players who have played in a SB (exhibit A: Barry Sanders), so I think the greatest QB to ever not play in a SB should be in the HOF.
Now, if he gets in before Eli Manning? Then yeah, I'm gonna be pissed as hell. But he deserves to get in at some point.
this site was weird about any other young QB for years when Eli was drafted. They were all overrated. Rivers and Ben got the most shit. You have to be in that mindset still if you can't concede that Rivers was a top 5 qb for a number of years.
to come from the players and coaches which goes pretty damn far.
Anyone that cares to look at the link, breaks down statistically why he deserves it, and it's adjusted for era.
Guy was a very good QB that had a ton of longevity in the league and was consistently very good. The Chargers had crap around him for most his career and pretty much his only chance at SB was in his early career. The Chargers are also a team that seem to have had a season-altering injury in camp every year the last 10 years, pretty crazy. Link - ( New Window )
Brady not the goat? Ok maybe but who is the best qb of his era? And which one he’s been playing since 2001
in 2018 . It took 2 years for the rest of him to catch up. I can’t see how he is an HOFer. I don’t have any problem with someone questioning whether Eli should get in , although I think he will . But it makes me sad that Phil Simms never got in . He’s better than both Eli & Rivers .
The big knock on Simms is likely his injury history; it took him until his sixth season to start a whole season and that likely hurt his stats. He also only made the Pro Bowl twice (likely due to playing in the era of quarterbacks like Montana, Elway, Kelly, and Marino to name a few) and the Giants' passing game wasn't deemed as important; even with the 1986 Giants they won in spite of their passing game and Simms threw more interceptions than touchdowns that year.
The knock on Simms should be his defense was better than their offense and the were a run first team ; he also got a ring watching from the sidelines on crutches
got me hooked on giants in my formative years. But he was not as good as Eli not even close. And no way is leading a team against the goat in a SB win. Kerry Collins was a better QB than Simms so was Kurt Warner .
RE: RE: QBs who make the Hall of Fame never having won anything
should have to be otherwise legendary figures: transcendent talents.
Marino, Moon, Tarkenton, Kelly are in the Hall without ever winning championships.
Moon aside, the other three at least got to the title game and lost.
Rivers was never a top 3 QB in the NFL, likely never top 5 in any one season, but not 100% confident his best season or two didn't crack that.
He should have to buy a ticket to the Hall of Fame.
He went to the pro bowl 8 times. Only 6 QBs make the pro bowl every year. You don't think he was EVER a top 5 QB in any given year?
You go to that many pro bowls, put up the career numbers he had, have the longevity and durability that he had, you deserve to go to the HOF in my opinion. He's the greatest QB to never play in a super bowl IMO. I don't think the HOF should be limited to only players who have played in a SB (exhibit A: Barry Sanders), so I think the greatest QB to ever not play in a SB should be in the HOF.
Now, if he gets in before Eli Manning? Then yeah, I'm gonna be pissed as hell. But he deserves to get in at some point.
I think "the greatest QB to never play in a Super Bowl" is a title that shows why someone doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. Team sports are team-dependent yet quarterback is the most important position in all of team sports. He got to one AFC Championship game, deserves zero blame for the loss and all the kudos in the world for playing, but he had some very talented teams that never amounted to anything.
From where I sit, his career is largely forgettable: outside of having a million kids and being The Other Guy in the Eli Manning trade, what is Rivers remembered for? What are his career highlights? What are his defining moments?
Regarding Top 5 in any one season, I'd have to catalog every season. Keep in mind that in 2006-2009, the NFL included Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees. In 2010, Aaron Rodgers emerges. In 2013, Russell Wilson emerged. In addition to Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning duo, Tony Romo as a regular season QB, etc.
I'd bet he was Top 5 in 2008: the year Tom Brady didn't play, and before the new guys arrived.
But here's the bigger takeaway for something like the Hall of Fame: the fact that Rivers's Top 5 NFL QB seasons don't jump out in my mind? That's a problem.
The Hall as constituted will put him in.
The Hall I'd prefer to see would keep him and a lot of people out, and would've kept a lot of more people out.
Brady will be the all time NFL leader in passing yards and touchdowns. And still going strong.
Wait, what? Playoffs don't count toward Regular Season passing yards and TDs, which is usually what people refer to when they're talking about leaders in those categories.
I don't think so. I think when Pederson was fired, Wentz stayed the QB, at least for a year until trading or cutting him isn't such a massive burden.
He was by almost all accounts a great teammate, a good person, and a fiery competitor.
Another in that class who also had longevity on the field and stayed free of major injury
It is the place that makes sense and the Osweiler trade gives some framework for this to happen.
It would take about $15M of Indy cap space which is about what it took for the Browns to trade for Osweiler in a deal that also netted them Houston's 2nd round pick.
The Eagles will undoubtedly argue that despite Wentz's struggles, there is no comparing Wentz and Osweiler and they would be right, but when there is only one buyer - you pay a premium.
But intrigued to see what they do for QB (wonder if they look at a Trey Lance/Mac Jones), or they see if a deal for Stafford might be possible.
After all the hubbub of giant carousel of QBs moving, it looks like Ryan will stay in Atlanta, Garoppolo in SF (still early), and NO will probably stick with internal transition at least for one year trial on Winston. Doesn't look like Carolina is going to budge just yet off Bridgewater either next year.
Campbell being hired makes me think they're going to try and get one last run with Stafford in DET.
There is debate whether Eli is a HOFer, let alone first ballot. I don't believe there should be much debate on it, but there is.
IMO, all of Rivers, Eli, and Ben are HOFers. Ben has the titles and the regular season stats/winning record. Rivers lacks the postseason success that Eli has, but Eli lacks the regular season stats/record that Rivers has. Will be interesting to see how the HOF voters view it, but I view them as relative equals, with maybe Eli a step above for the two title runs.
Everyone keeps saying this, but apparently, Reich has no interest in bringing him in. Really says a lot about the guy.
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
Quote:
But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
Good point
Quote:
But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
N
My thoughts exactly. If Ben and Drew do both retire this year, which is entirely possible, the line is too long. And even without one or both of them, Rivers in my opinion is not worthy of first ballot honors. HOF? Yes. First ballot, I don’t think so.
That’s when I truly felt this guy is a beast. He isn’t eli or Ben but he’s damn good.
Funny! Once a Giant, always a Giant.
Quote:
Always respected his demeanor on the field. Real tough hombre, playing on a torn ACL in the playoffs.
That’s when I truly felt this guy is a beast. He isn’t eli or Ben but he’s damn good.
I did like his demeanor on the field; it reminded me a lot of Phil Simms.
He was by almost all accounts a great teammate, a good person, and a fiery competitor.
Another in that class who also had longevity on the field and stayed free of major injury
He was accurate and also could get the ball out fast with his quirky motion.
Rivers had a lot of very good regular seasons and while he probably still threw more interceptions than you would like to see, his winning percentage, td/int ratio and quarterback ratings are all somewhat higher than Eli Manning's. Rivers also made it to 8 Pro Bowls (and 2 more as an alternate) which isn't too shabby.
The difference obviously lies in the playoffs where Eli was able to raise up his game during two incredible Super Bowl runs, leading the team to victories and winning MVPs. Rivers made it to the playoffs plenty but his performances were several notches below his regular season successes and he never made it to the big game.
Imv, Manning is a sure Hall of Famer because of the two rings although may need to wait it out a year or so unfortunately.
Phillips I think is a tougher call but ultimately makes it thru at some point because he was indeed one of the top regular season QBs for so many years. But its close.
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
Marino, Moon, Tarkenton, Kelly are in the Hall without ever winning championships.
Moon aside, the other three at least got to the title game and lost.
Rivers was never a top 3 QB in the NFL, likely never top 5 in any one season, but not 100% confident his best season or two didn't crack that.
He should have to buy a ticket to the Hall of Fame.
Yup. 2004 was a great QB class.
I do think one borderline flaw in Rivers' game that kept him from the truly elite was that he lacked zip on his throws outside the hashes, which is something that would be noticeable in "clutch" situations. On the flipside, he threw such a pretty deep ball (especially for how ugly his throwing motion was). In terms of "touch", I think both Rivers and Brees are about as good as any QB I've ever seen.
I saw it mentioned that Brady will out last all 3 of the potential HOF guys from 04 and that really is incredible. No one will ever convince me that Brady is "the goat". In my opinion he's not even the best QB of his era. But playing at the level he did this year at 43? Amazing.
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
I had a SB ticket on two teams the Colts being one of them. Halfway through the season it was pretty clear Rivers was toast. His feet are like cement now. Even with that wall for an offensive line it was pretty clear my ticket wasn't hitting. Rivers put up stats this year because of his backs. They would be much better off using that money to upgrade and probably told him as much.
Anyone that cares to look at the link, breaks down statistically why he deserves it, and it's adjusted for era.
Guy was a very good QB that had a ton of longevity in the league and was consistently very good. The Chargers had crap around him for most his career and pretty much his only chance at SB was in his early career. The Chargers are also a team that seem to have had a season-altering injury in camp every year the last 10 years, pretty crazy.
Link - ( New Window )
large family.
Honestly, I'm glad he never made it to the Super Bowl. Another "regular season hero" QB that never made it to the SB.
The things you remember and take with you. When football was the most important thing in your life.
Oh, wait. 17 years later, it still is. Can this fucking thing get back to winning? Who cares about Philip Rivers? The silver medal quarterback of that class. No Super Bowls.
and his wife
Quote:
after he realizes what it's like to be home non-stop with all those kids :)
and his wife
HAHAHAAHAHAAH - fact.
well done
For sure. Only one better in my mind was 1983. I'll guess we never have a year that matches '83 though... lol
But what a great career this guy had. I couldn't have been more wrong on how he performed. Did not have great playoff success, but a lot of that was bad timing playing in the AFC with Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger.
Not sure he's first ballot, but he will get into Canton.
He'll probably get into the Hall of Fame, but his lack of hardware will probably keep him out for a while IMO.
LoL
"Rivers calls out to one of our LB's prior to the snap and tells him he's out of position for the blitz we were about to run, and he was absolutely right!"
and far better offensive lineman in most of his years than
Eli. He was a bit of a garbage time QB who never won anything
But what a great career this guy had. I couldn't have been more wrong on how he performed. Did not have great playoff success, but a lot of that was bad timing playing in the AFC with Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger.
Not sure he's first ballot, but he will get into Canton.
I am still stunned!!!! However he makes it works, he does. I mean still, even in the playoff games, he was shortarming the ball into the tighest windows. Great anticipation I suppose and understands what he sees.
Had a great career, stats and longevity, that will get him the HOF eventually, and also because he's part of one of the best QB classes of all time does help him.
All three were tremendous NFL players.
"Rivers calls out to one of our LB's prior to the snap and tells him he's out of position for the blitz we were about to run, and he was absolutely right!"
Another good ones is Rivers running down the field yelling at a defender after a big play:
"You talked the whole game, now you're on MUTE!!!"
This year's multi-million dollar question: Does Mac Jones belong in that category?
Over under on 11?
This year's multi-million dollar question: Does Mac Jones belong in that category?
Mac Jones belong in the question even? Hard to argue he has the mental aspect when everything is beyond easy for him.
People get lost in the measurables, and generally, you need a certain amoutn to be succesful, but it's all about the mental makeup of these guys. Not just on the field, but what they are doing off it. That is the MOST important thing.
The big knock on Simms is likely his injury history; it took him until his sixth season to start a whole season and that likely hurt his stats. He also only made the Pro Bowl twice (likely due to playing in the era of quarterbacks like Montana, Elway, Kelly, and Marino to name a few) and the Giants' passing game wasn't deemed as important; even with the 1986 Giants they won in spite of their passing game and Simms threw more interceptions than touchdowns that year.
Marino, Moon, Tarkenton, Kelly are in the Hall without ever winning championships.
Moon aside, the other three at least got to the title game and lost.
Rivers was never a top 3 QB in the NFL, likely never top 5 in any one season, but not 100% confident his best season or two didn't crack that.
He should have to buy a ticket to the Hall of Fame.
He went to the pro bowl 8 times. Only 6 QBs make the pro bowl every year. You don't think he was EVER a top 5 QB in any given year?
You go to that many pro bowls, put up the career numbers he had, have the longevity and durability that he had, you deserve to go to the HOF in my opinion. He's the greatest QB to never play in a super bowl IMO. I don't think the HOF should be limited to only players who have played in a SB (exhibit A: Barry Sanders), so I think the greatest QB to ever not play in a SB should be in the HOF.
Now, if he gets in before Eli Manning? Then yeah, I'm gonna be pissed as hell. But he deserves to get in at some point.
Hilarious!
Colts are a win now team and Stafford is seasoned and good enough to take this team to a SB
Lions in a rebuild
Anyone that cares to look at the link, breaks down statistically why he deserves it, and it's adjusted for era.
Guy was a very good QB that had a ton of longevity in the league and was consistently very good. The Chargers had crap around him for most his career and pretty much his only chance at SB was in his early career. The Chargers are also a team that seem to have had a season-altering injury in camp every year the last 10 years, pretty crazy. Link - ( New Window )
Brady not the goat? Ok maybe but who is the best qb of his era? And which one he’s been playing since 2001
If Smith, Brees and Big Ben don't retire I'd be surprised.
Quote:
in 2018 . It took 2 years for the rest of him to catch up. I can’t see how he is an HOFer. I don’t have any problem with someone questioning whether Eli should get in , although I think he will . But it makes me sad that Phil Simms never got in . He’s better than both Eli & Rivers .
The big knock on Simms is likely his injury history; it took him until his sixth season to start a whole season and that likely hurt his stats. He also only made the Pro Bowl twice (likely due to playing in the era of quarterbacks like Montana, Elway, Kelly, and Marino to name a few) and the Giants' passing game wasn't deemed as important; even with the 1986 Giants they won in spite of their passing game and Simms threw more interceptions than touchdowns that year.
The knock on Simms should be his defense was better than their offense and the were a run first team ; he also got a ring watching from the sidelines on crutches
Quote:
should have to be otherwise legendary figures: transcendent talents.
Marino, Moon, Tarkenton, Kelly are in the Hall without ever winning championships.
Moon aside, the other three at least got to the title game and lost.
Rivers was never a top 3 QB in the NFL, likely never top 5 in any one season, but not 100% confident his best season or two didn't crack that.
He should have to buy a ticket to the Hall of Fame.
He went to the pro bowl 8 times. Only 6 QBs make the pro bowl every year. You don't think he was EVER a top 5 QB in any given year?
You go to that many pro bowls, put up the career numbers he had, have the longevity and durability that he had, you deserve to go to the HOF in my opinion. He's the greatest QB to never play in a super bowl IMO. I don't think the HOF should be limited to only players who have played in a SB (exhibit A: Barry Sanders), so I think the greatest QB to ever not play in a SB should be in the HOF.
Now, if he gets in before Eli Manning? Then yeah, I'm gonna be pissed as hell. But he deserves to get in at some point.
I think "the greatest QB to never play in a Super Bowl" is a title that shows why someone doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. Team sports are team-dependent yet quarterback is the most important position in all of team sports. He got to one AFC Championship game, deserves zero blame for the loss and all the kudos in the world for playing, but he had some very talented teams that never amounted to anything.
From where I sit, his career is largely forgettable: outside of having a million kids and being The Other Guy in the Eli Manning trade, what is Rivers remembered for? What are his career highlights? What are his defining moments?
Regarding Top 5 in any one season, I'd have to catalog every season. Keep in mind that in 2006-2009, the NFL included Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees. In 2010, Aaron Rodgers emerges. In 2013, Russell Wilson emerged. In addition to Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning duo, Tony Romo as a regular season QB, etc.
I'd bet he was Top 5 in 2008: the year Tom Brady didn't play, and before the new guys arrived.
But here's the bigger takeaway for something like the Hall of Fame: the fact that Rivers's Top 5 NFL QB seasons don't jump out in my mind? That's a problem.
The Hall as constituted will put him in.
The Hall I'd prefer to see would keep him and a lot of people out, and would've kept a lot of more people out.
Wait, what? Playoffs don't count toward Regular Season passing yards and TDs, which is usually what people refer to when they're talking about leaders in those categories.