It is the place that makes sense and the Osweiler trade gives some framework for this to happen.
It would take about $15M of Indy cap space which is about what it took for the Browns to trade for Osweiler in a deal that also netted them Houston's 2nd round pick.
The Eagles will undoubtedly argue that despite Wentz's struggles, there is no comparing Wentz and Osweiler and they would be right, but when there is only one buyer - you pay a premium.
a Watson fit with Indy (picks are too late and they won't part with any of their young D core).
But intrigued to see what they do for QB (wonder if they look at a Trey Lance/Mac Jones), or they see if a deal for Stafford might be possible.
After all the hubbub of giant carousel of QBs moving, it looks like Ryan will stay in Atlanta, Garoppolo in SF (still early), and NO will probably stick with internal transition at least for one year trial on Winston. Doesn't look like Carolina is going to budge just yet off Bridgewater either next year.
Campbell being hired makes me think they're going to try and get one last run with Stafford in DET.
But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
There is debate whether Eli is a HOFer, let alone first ballot. I don't believe there should be much debate on it, but there is.
IMO, all of Rivers, Eli, and Ben are HOFers. Ben has the titles and the regular season stats/winning record. Rivers lacks the postseason success that Eli has, but Eli lacks the regular season stats/record that Rivers has. Will be interesting to see how the HOF voters view it, but I view them as relative equals, with maybe Eli a step above for the two title runs.
but could never win the big game, even when surrounded by talent on both sides of the ball. HOFer? In my opinion, yes, eventually, but not so sure a first ballot. Eli is up a year before with two rings- this will be a good litmus test for Rivers.
But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
N
My thoughts exactly. If Ben and Drew do both retire this year, which is entirely possible, the line is too long. And even without one or both of them, Rivers in my opinion is not worthy of first ballot honors. HOF? Yes. First ballot, I don’t think so.
stats because of his longevity and sheer durability. Once he became the full-time starter in 2006, Rivers went 15 years in a row starting every single game of the regular season until his retirement. Remarkable.
Rivers had a lot of very good regular seasons and while he probably still threw more interceptions than you would like to see, his winning percentage, td/int ratio and quarterback ratings are all somewhat higher than Eli Manning's. Rivers also made it to 8 Pro Bowls (and 2 more as an alternate) which isn't too shabby.
The difference obviously lies in the playoffs where Eli was able to raise up his game during two incredible Super Bowl runs, leading the team to victories and winning MVPs. Rivers made it to the playoffs plenty but his performances were several notches below his regular season successes and he never made it to the big game.
Imv, Manning is a sure Hall of Famer because of the two rings although may need to wait it out a year or so unfortunately.
Phillips I think is a tougher call but ultimately makes it thru at some point because he was indeed one of the top regular season QBs for so many years. But its close.
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
QBs who make the Hall of Fame never having won anything
The Chargers were close over the years, but just not quite good enough. The late game INT against Brady in 2006 that they immediately fumbled is the play that I think best defines the Chargers during the Rivers era.
I do think one borderline flaw in Rivers' game that kept him from the truly elite was that he lacked zip on his throws outside the hashes, which is something that would be noticeable in "clutch" situations. On the flipside, he threw such a pretty deep ball (especially for how ugly his throwing motion was). In terms of "touch", I think both Rivers and Brees are about as good as any QB I've ever seen.
is considered a slam dunk HOF and people question whether Eli will get in. Makes no sense to me. I really don't care about Rivers one way or the other but if people are talking about him as first ballot how can they keep Eli out?
I saw it mentioned that Brady will out last all 3 of the potential HOF guys from 04 and that really is incredible. No one will ever convince me that Brady is "the goat". In my opinion he's not even the best QB of his era. But playing at the level he did this year at 43? Amazing.
RE: I thought Philip Rivers showed more than enough
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
I had a SB ticket on two teams the Colts being one of them. Halfway through the season it was pretty clear Rivers was toast. His feet are like cement now. Even with that wall for an offensive line it was pretty clear my ticket wasn't hitting. Rivers put up stats this year because of his backs. They would be much better off using that money to upgrade and probably told him as much.
To me the biggest argument about him being a HOF seems
to come from the players and coaches which goes pretty damn far.
Anyone that cares to look at the link, breaks down statistically why he deserves it, and it's adjusted for era.
Guy was a very good QB that had a ton of longevity in the league and was consistently very good. The Chargers had crap around him for most his career and pretty much his only chance at SB was in his early career. The Chargers are also a team that seem to have had a season-altering injury in camp every year the last 10 years, pretty crazy. Link - ( New Window )
I thought he had 1 year left of good football. After a shaky start, from week 6 on he had a 100 rating, 268 yds/game, 20 tds, and 6 picks. Then had a pretty good game in the playoffs. Good luck to him though
Damn. Can remember the debates at the lunch table and online over taking Rivers or Eli and the rumors of Kurt Warner. The one guy who had his sights set on Ben Roethlisberger. Early 2004 was my junior year of high school.
The things you remember and take with you. When football was the most important thing in your life.
Oh, wait. 17 years later, it still is. Can this fucking thing get back to winning? Who cares about Philip Rivers? The silver medal quarterback of that class. No Super Bowls.
performed in the NFL. I wanted nothing to do with him in the '04 draft with that sling throwing motion. Saw Bernie Kosar, 2.0.
But what a great career this guy had. I couldn't have been more wrong on how he performed. Did not have great playoff success, but a lot of that was bad timing playing in the AFC with Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger.
Not sure he's first ballot, but he will get into Canton.
I don't think so. I think when Pederson was fired, Wentz stayed the QB, at least for a year until trading or cutting him isn't such a massive burden.
He was by almost all accounts a great teammate, a good person, and a fiery competitor.
Another in that class who also had longevity on the field and stayed free of major injury
It is the place that makes sense and the Osweiler trade gives some framework for this to happen.
It would take about $15M of Indy cap space which is about what it took for the Browns to trade for Osweiler in a deal that also netted them Houston's 2nd round pick.
The Eagles will undoubtedly argue that despite Wentz's struggles, there is no comparing Wentz and Osweiler and they would be right, but when there is only one buyer - you pay a premium.
But intrigued to see what they do for QB (wonder if they look at a Trey Lance/Mac Jones), or they see if a deal for Stafford might be possible.
After all the hubbub of giant carousel of QBs moving, it looks like Ryan will stay in Atlanta, Garoppolo in SF (still early), and NO will probably stick with internal transition at least for one year trial on Winston. Doesn't look like Carolina is going to budge just yet off Bridgewater either next year.
Campbell being hired makes me think they're going to try and get one last run with Stafford in DET.
There is debate whether Eli is a HOFer, let alone first ballot. I don't believe there should be much debate on it, but there is.
IMO, all of Rivers, Eli, and Ben are HOFers. Ben has the titles and the regular season stats/winning record. Rivers lacks the postseason success that Eli has, but Eli lacks the regular season stats/record that Rivers has. Will be interesting to see how the HOF voters view it, but I view them as relative equals, with maybe Eli a step above for the two title runs.
Everyone keeps saying this, but apparently, Reich has no interest in bringing him in. Really says a lot about the guy.
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
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But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
Good point
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But as mentioned above, not sure when. Perhaps first ballot?
No way a first ballot. Especially with Drew Brees and possibly Big Ben retiring this year as well.
N
My thoughts exactly. If Ben and Drew do both retire this year, which is entirely possible, the line is too long. And even without one or both of them, Rivers in my opinion is not worthy of first ballot honors. HOF? Yes. First ballot, I don’t think so.
That’s when I truly felt this guy is a beast. He isn’t eli or Ben but he’s damn good.
Funny! Once a Giant, always a Giant.
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Always respected his demeanor on the field. Real tough hombre, playing on a torn ACL in the playoffs.
That’s when I truly felt this guy is a beast. He isn’t eli or Ben but he’s damn good.
I did like his demeanor on the field; it reminded me a lot of Phil Simms.
He was by almost all accounts a great teammate, a good person, and a fiery competitor.
Another in that class who also had longevity on the field and stayed free of major injury
He was accurate and also could get the ball out fast with his quirky motion.
Rivers had a lot of very good regular seasons and while he probably still threw more interceptions than you would like to see, his winning percentage, td/int ratio and quarterback ratings are all somewhat higher than Eli Manning's. Rivers also made it to 8 Pro Bowls (and 2 more as an alternate) which isn't too shabby.
The difference obviously lies in the playoffs where Eli was able to raise up his game during two incredible Super Bowl runs, leading the team to victories and winning MVPs. Rivers made it to the playoffs plenty but his performances were several notches below his regular season successes and he never made it to the big game.
Imv, Manning is a sure Hall of Famer because of the two rings although may need to wait it out a year or so unfortunately.
Phillips I think is a tougher call but ultimately makes it thru at some point because he was indeed one of the top regular season QBs for so many years. But its close.
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
Marino, Moon, Tarkenton, Kelly are in the Hall without ever winning championships.
Moon aside, the other three at least got to the title game and lost.
Rivers was never a top 3 QB in the NFL, likely never top 5 in any one season, but not 100% confident his best season or two didn't crack that.
He should have to buy a ticket to the Hall of Fame.
Yup. 2004 was a great QB class.
I do think one borderline flaw in Rivers' game that kept him from the truly elite was that he lacked zip on his throws outside the hashes, which is something that would be noticeable in "clutch" situations. On the flipside, he threw such a pretty deep ball (especially for how ugly his throwing motion was). In terms of "touch", I think both Rivers and Brees are about as good as any QB I've ever seen.
I saw it mentioned that Brady will out last all 3 of the potential HOF guys from 04 and that really is incredible. No one will ever convince me that Brady is "the goat". In my opinion he's not even the best QB of his era. But playing at the level he did this year at 43? Amazing.
in his last playoff game (309 yards/2 TDs/0 INTs) to justify coming back next season at a high level. Then, again, maybe his mind/body just said that -- after 17 seasons -- enough is enough!
I had a SB ticket on two teams the Colts being one of them. Halfway through the season it was pretty clear Rivers was toast. His feet are like cement now. Even with that wall for an offensive line it was pretty clear my ticket wasn't hitting. Rivers put up stats this year because of his backs. They would be much better off using that money to upgrade and probably told him as much.
Anyone that cares to look at the link, breaks down statistically why he deserves it, and it's adjusted for era.
Guy was a very good QB that had a ton of longevity in the league and was consistently very good. The Chargers had crap around him for most his career and pretty much his only chance at SB was in his early career. The Chargers are also a team that seem to have had a season-altering injury in camp every year the last 10 years, pretty crazy.
Link - ( New Window )
large family.
Honestly, I'm glad he never made it to the Super Bowl. Another "regular season hero" QB that never made it to the SB.
The things you remember and take with you. When football was the most important thing in your life.
Oh, wait. 17 years later, it still is. Can this fucking thing get back to winning? Who cares about Philip Rivers? The silver medal quarterback of that class. No Super Bowls.
and his wife
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after he realizes what it's like to be home non-stop with all those kids :)
and his wife
HAHAHAAHAHAAH - fact.
well done
For sure. Only one better in my mind was 1983. I'll guess we never have a year that matches '83 though... lol
But what a great career this guy had. I couldn't have been more wrong on how he performed. Did not have great playoff success, but a lot of that was bad timing playing in the AFC with Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger.
Not sure he's first ballot, but he will get into Canton.
He'll probably get into the Hall of Fame, but his lack of hardware will probably keep him out for a while IMO.