-Springer a Blue Jay
-Quintana to LAA for 1 year 8. Bummed we didn’t land him at that price. Potential steal.
-Heyman says they had/have interest in Kike Hernandez but he is looking for a starting job. Maybe a platoon in CF with PT in other spots entices him?
-the new head of R& D is close with Justin Turner. Zero indication the Mets are interested but notable.
-have not shown interest in JBJ to this point
-Hand and Colome have both switched agents (Hand’s new agent does not have any Mets clients for anyone looking for that connection)
Trade route, Cain looks to be the best option. Don't know what they would give up. Maybe Betances to counteract some of the salary. Wouldn't want to give up much more than that for a salary dump.
Trade route, Cain looks to be the best option. Don't know what they would give up. Maybe Betances to counteract some of the salary. Wouldn't want to give up much more than that for a salary dump.
Gotta figure those 2 cost mid-teens combined. Seems far too pricey for the production to me. At that point go cheap in CF and add Wong. Lindor/Wong would be the best defensive MI in the sport
And I'm sure none of them spoke up or did anything specific or courageous beforehand until the coast was clear to grab the shovels and throw some dirt on Porter and the Mets.
JDD's bat plays and he could play for them in a variety of spots - OF, 3b, 1b, or DH. 1B would seem most likely since it looks like their current depth chart is topped by Daniel Vogelbach.
If anything I would think MIL would need to sweeten the pot with a prospect since they'd be saving $ and getting a cost controlled young bat.
He’s certainly worth calling but he’s going to be a starter and doesn’t help their CF needs. Wong is probably a better fit if they pivot off of CF
Sign Wong (let's say $10m to make it easy)
Sign Hand
Think that would all be within the remaining budget and give them multiple time gold glovers at SS, 2B, and CF. McNeil I suppose would become a full time 3B.
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Kirby Yates deal done and official with Jays. $5.5M guarantee. $4.5M incentives to get to $10M if he pitches in 70 gam
While obviously not ideal, I think you can win with that, and fix it in 2022.
I'm as impatient as every Mets fan, but I hate to think of forcing bad fits or overpays to try and fix every single problem in one off-season.
Use the Springer money on Bauer high ACV low years deal (if Sandy can sell that) and roll with it.
Sign Wong (let's say $10m to make it easy)
Sign Hand
Think that would all be within the remaining budget and give them multiple time gold glovers at SS, 2B, and CF. McNeil I suppose would become a full time 3B.
That would be best case scenario at this point. Adding great defense, not losing any prospects.
cool story bro i know
I'd be ok but not enthused with that duo. It may be the best they can do and it would be a step in the right direction but that's got to be plan B or C.
I'd be ok with Hernandez (or Turner) being a plan A over Wong if they don't want to play McNeil at 3b. But they did say they are considering him at 3rd so I'm not sure that's the case. Hernandez' versatility over Wong is a plus though even if you are losing some D at 2b. He's also presumably cheaper.
With the lineup, both the IF and OF have options. You can add an infielder but Guillorme/Davis are both likely as interesting as whoever you bring in.
A CF could work, but they likely are part of a rotation as none left will provide enough offense to justify sitting Dom or Nimmo if there isn’t a DH.
Losing Springer sucks but now that he’s off the table there isn’t a whole lot left to do.
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aimed at anyone on here but I'm really surprised how many people on twitter are willing to spend almost 20 million for the next 2 seasons for a JBJ/Hernandez platoon. Pass from me.
I'd be ok but not enthused with that duo. It may be the best they can do and it would be a step in the right direction but that's got to be plan B or C.
I'd be ok with Hernandez (or Turner) being a plan A over Wong if they don't want to play McNeil at 3b. But they did say they are considering him at 3rd so I'm not sure that's the case. Hernandez' versatility over Wong is a plus though even if you are losing some D at 2b. He's also presumably cheaper.
I think it's very silly to commit that kind of money for a very mediocre offensive combination. It seems like it's spending just to spend. Hernandez isn't a good offensive player. I'd sign one or the other. Not have 20ish million on the books for multiple seasons.
Hasn't his D been declining?
Yeah, I was just thinking out loud. If it's $20 million for the two, pass. Ideally JBJ would be a right. But, maybe they just say eff it and go with the lefty if they can't get a Cain deal done. Cain would be ideal though.
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aimed at anyone on here but I'm really surprised how many people on twitter are willing to spend almost 20 million for the next 2 seasons for a JBJ/Hernandez platoon. Pass from me.
Yeah, I was just thinking out loud. If it's $20 million for the two, pass. Ideally JBJ would be a right. But, maybe they just say eff it and go with the lefty if they can't get a Cain deal done. Cain would be ideal though.
Safe to assume they end up "near" 20 million. I've seen JBJ anywhere from 8-12 per and Kike 7-9 per.
Hasn't his D been declining?
JBJ is still plus in CF. Tied with Bellinger for #1 in OAA in CF.
The issue with that is Familia makes about $10 million a year, where Betances is half that. If Cain is a salary dump I can see them taking back a Betances, but the Familia contract is a bad one. I don't see it. I see Betances/JDD
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And need to add both some pitching... I think JDD/Familia would be a good fit for them.
The issue with that is Familia makes about $10 million a year, where Betances is half that. If Cain is a salary dump I can see them taking back a Betances, but the Familia contract is a bad one. I don't see it. I see Betances/JDD
in fairness, the Brewers would save 17 million in 2022 (minus whatever JDD makes). But I wouldn't think twice for Betances either.
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In comment 15128794 debo_GIANTS said:
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And need to add both some pitching... I think JDD/Familia would be a good fit for them.
The issue with that is Familia makes about $10 million a year, where Betances is half that. If Cain is a salary dump I can see them taking back a Betances, but the Familia contract is a bad one. I don't see it. I see Betances/JDD
in fairness, the Brewers would save 17 million in 2022 (minus whatever JDD makes). But I wouldn't think twice for Betances either.
True, but the savings would be only about $5-6 million this year between Cain and Familia. Then you add in $2.3 million for JDD. I would prefer a Familia/JDD trade than a Betances/JDD, but I don't see the Brewers doing it.
While obviously not ideal, I think you can win with that, and fix it in 2022.
I'm as impatient as every Mets fan, but I hate to think of forcing bad fits or overpays to try and fix every single problem in one off-season.
Use the Springer money on Bauer high ACV low years deal (if Sandy can sell that) and roll with it.
Been thinking this for a while. Let's say Nimmo turns in an average season - nothing more, nothing less. He'd give you .258, a ton of hustle and a good clubhouse guy, plus an average OPS of 838. Keep adding to the bench and the BP and I think we're fine.
tells @MLBPipeline
(podcast) that "no one really knows" what Colas plans to do (wait for 2022? Sign with a team now?). Many teams have limited information. Teams are looking to work him out first. #Mets
Agreed. Also I wouldn't be signing Hernandez for CF. I'd hope to sign him to a 2 year deal to be the utility guy who can start in a variety of spots depending on where you need him. And if McNeil wins 3b it's possibly he could be your primary competition with Guillorme at 2b. Hernandez has been very good defensively by both OAA (+4 the last 2 years) and DRS (+21 the last 2 years combined).
So he's presumably a cheaper, more versatile, alternative to Wong that would still give them very good defense at 2b if that's where he ends up playing.
I have very little interest in JBJ unless they strike out on other options first and get him on a 1 year deal.
@jflan816
On @WFAN660
, @JonHeyman
said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets lose Brad Hand to the Blue Jays too.
Offensively Kike makes more hard contact than Wong and that's backed up by just about every metric - SLG%, exit velocity, hard hit rate, barrel% etc. Though Wong does K less.
Where Hernandez' value really stands out is that he can play anywhere. 2b, 3b, OF, whatever. He's used to coming off the bench. If you pay Wong it's as a starting 2b.
@BNightengale
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6m
Wade Davis' deal with the #Royals will pay him $1.25 million if he's on their big-league roster with $925,000 in incentives. He also has an opt-out if he doesn't make their opening-day roster.
@TimothyRRyder
· 1m
source: Mets have reached out to CIN regarding Sonny Gray and Eugenio Suarez. @Metsmerized report to follow
Interesting. Wonder what they do with Teoscar, Springer, Gurriel, and Brantley. Maybe DH Teoscar?
@PSLToFlushing
·
2m
I imagine this cost is quite high.
@JonHeyman
said 10 days ago the #Nationals reached out to the #Reds about Suarez and were told a deal would take one of their top 2 prospects Jackson Rutledge or Cade Cavalli as a part of it. This isn’t going to be a “salary dump” move. #Mets
1. He has a full-no trade 2. His salary could completely cost against the lux tax. Adding those 3 would put the Mets WAY over the luxury tax and have Cano/Votto on the books for 45 million for the next 2, Votto signed through 2024.
Kolten Wong is #1 in DRS at 2b the past 2 years with 25. Kike Hernandez is #2 with 21. That's why I suggested him ideally competing to win 2b with McNeil at 3b. Do I think Kike (or Guillorme) is as good defensively as Wong? No. But both are cheaper I do think both are likely very positive impact defenders. McNeil has also been a good defensive 2b.
Also Kike's versatility is a definitive plus over Wong because even if there are positions he hasn't played much (like 3b, ss, cf) Wong has only ever played 2b since 2016. Obviously I wouldn't be looking to put Hernandez in those positions for an extended period of time, just pointing out he has the versatility if it's needed. And it's likely he'd get some time in the OF because we have so few OF'ers on the roster right now.
2b DRS from 2019-2020 - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
9. Kolten Wong, 2B, age 30
The Cardinals made a shocking choice by declining Wong’s $12.5 million option for 2021, making him a free agent just one year after he posted a 3.7 fWAR/5.2 bWAR, which puts him among the 10 most valuable free agents by total value in 2019-20. He’s a high-contact, low-exit velocity hitter who gets on base at an above-median clip for a second baseman, and after some ups and downs under Mike Matheny — who, for whatever reason, never seemed to warm to Wong as a regular — has hit .285/.362/.403 in the year-plus since Matheny was fired, with plus defense since he reached the majors. He was second among all second basemen in Outs Above Average in 2019, and led in both dRS and UZR. Wong does have a platoon split, but he’s become capable enough against lefties that he doesn’t have to sit against them. He doesn’t have much power, and shouldn’t really try to pull the ball too much, as he’s better when he uses the whole field and goes for contact. He’s an above-average regular right now, an asset to almost any contender, and should be for the length of a four- or five-year deal.
25. Kolten Wong – Red Sox. Two years, $16MM. The Cardinals’ decision to decline Wong’s $12.5MM club option came as a surprise to some, but this has long seemed like a plausible outcome. Wong’s profile — a pure second baseman lacking in power — is not one that gets paid well even in a normal offseason. Cesar Hernandez found himself non-tendered with a lower projected salary just one offseason ago, for instance.
Wong, 30, was drafted 22nd overall out of University of Hawaii at Manoa by the Cardinals in 2011. He’s been an above-average hitter twice in his career, with 108 wRC+ seasons in 2017 and ’19. Moving forward, I think offensive production right around league average can be expected from Wong.
Wong shines defensively, picking up a Gold Glove last year and showing strong marks in UZR, DRS, and outs above average. Still, I’m not convinced defense-first, second-base only players like Wong or Cesar Hernandez will do well in free agency. The Cardinals may try to retain Wong at a lesser rate, but otherwise the Red Sox, Angels, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks, Indians, Tigers, or Yankees could be fits.
Seems like this kind of thing has been happening more often than usual this year.
The question with Wong isn't if he's the best option defensively - he is. The question is if the extra $ makes a bigger difference with that improvement vs. improving elsewhere. Hernandez helps reinforce multiple positions and being cheaper allows them to spend more money elsewhere.
@JonHeyman
·
8m
There is no deal for Michael Brantley. The sides continue to talk. Sorry for jumping the gun.
Hernández has saved 21 runs with his defense in that time in just over 800 innings. By comparison, three-time Fielding Bible Award winner Kolten Wong has three more runs saved than Hernández does, but in nearly twice as many innings. We’ll add that Hernández is one of two infielders to amass at least 10 Range Runs Saved in fewer than 1,000 innings at a position in that span. The other is Rangers third baseman Isiah Kiner-Falefa (who incidentally will be a full-time shortstop in 2021).
It’s hard to fully capture Hernández’s range value visually, but here’s a look at everywhere in which he made a play the last two seasons.
Kiké Hernández is a defensive gem - ( New Window )
@JeffPassan
·
21s
The Los Angeles Dodgers are monitoring the market for right-hander Trevor Bauer and could be a player depending on the price, sources tell ESPN. Focus for the Dodgers now remains on a right-handed infield bat, but Bauer and the Dodgers remain a possibility as his market develops.
@Alden_Gonzalez
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2m
Only Mookie Betts is currently in the books beyond the 2022 season, though Cody Bellinger and Walker Buehler will be quite expensive by then. Bauer would blow them past the CBT threshold in 2021, but a short-term, high-AAV deal is always appealing to them for a talent like that.
he's not a hidden gem, he's a very good utility player/borderline starter. There's nothing hidden about a guy who started 80% of the time for one of the best teams in baseball over the last several years.
He'd be a perfectly fine signing as well. I'd probably prefer Hernandez but the benefit with Marwin is he's played more 3b and he's played it well by the numbers the past couple years (+5 DRS in 400 innings, +4 OAA). Either would be a very wise investment.
Allan, Ginn, Dominguez, maybe Santos? They have a LOT of work to do in building the farm back up. Especially in terms of SP.
That's a good point - in theory I suppose they could pull out the chances in shifted alignments because SIS does video review to inform their metrics. I'm not sure if they did that but here's another metric from the article that adds a little more evidence to the point Simon was making with the chart.
Highest Success Rate on Sprints – 2020 Season
Name Plays Made/Opportunities %
Kiké Hernández 22/26 85%
Kolten Wong 32/44 73%
Keston Hiura 18/26 69%
Danny Mendick 15/22 68%
Link - ( New Window )
I'd much rather split the remaining room they have among a bunch of good depth players. Hand is at the top of the list, a high quality utility guy like Kike/Marwin, something in CF, and then whatever is left to grab a 1 or 2 more veteran pitchers to compete in ST like Gio/Sanchez/etc.
the Mets traded a top 15 prospect for a JAG (or worse) pitcher because of starting pitching depth.
Also, no one knows how Syndergaard will come back
Bauer, even if you acknowledge Bauer is not a consistent TOR starter, he's the Mets #2 or #3 starter until Syndergaard comes back.
I could understand not wanting to go long-term with Bauer with his inconsistent track record, but short-term there is not better use of $$$ in my opinion.
I'm pretty sure the LAD expected him to get more $ than they can afford to bring him back. Interesting in the link supposedly he specifically wanted a 1 year deal where he can get 500 plate appearances.
Dodgers Rumors: Kiké Hernandez’s Reported Contract Demands Likely End His Time in LA - ( New Window )
@JonHeyman
·
23s
Dodgers main infield target at moment is a righty-hitting infielder, and no surprise Justin Turner is the top choice. They’ve given him a chance to look around in the market but would love him back. They’ve looked at Marcus Semien but might be tough to think they could sign both.
What is the deal with Lux? He was a real good prospect, then he's kind of fallen off the planet. Is it attitude issues? There was a lot of vagueness regarding him showing up late, etc.
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should be noted, the Dodgers are letting Hernandez walk and over the past 2 seasons 22 hitters in baseball have been worse which includes guys like Mallex Smith, Roughed Odor, Joe Panik and Rio Ruiz Link - ( New Window )
I'm pretty sure the LAD expected him to get more $ than they can afford to bring him back. Interesting in the link supposedly he specifically wanted a 1 year deal where he can get 500 plate appearances. Dodgers Rumors: Kiké Hernandez’s Reported Contract Demands Likely End His Time in LA - ( New Window )
You don't think the Dodgers would have offered him 1 year and 500 PA's if they felt he was worthy of that? How does that compute? If anything that should be cause for concern. The team that knows him best won't give him an expanded role for 1 year when their starting 3b is a FA and he's their starter at 2b as of now.
the Mets traded a top 15 prospect for a JAG (or worse) pitcher because of starting pitching depth.
Also, no one knows how Syndergaard will come back
Bauer, even if you acknowledge Bauer is not a consistent TOR starter, he's the Mets #2 or #3 starter until Syndergaard comes back.
I could understand not wanting to go long-term with Bauer with his inconsistent track record, but short-term there is not better use of $$$ in my opinion.
"Unless it's sort of like when the Phillies signed Arrieta not too far off the CY for what seemed like a ridiculous steal of a deal (obviously it didn't work out that way)."
perhaps it was unclear in that wording but the steal with Arrieta was that he only got 3 years. The AAV was top of market. If Bauer was willing to sign a shorter deal I'd be quite excited about that.
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currently do not have a 3b on their roster, nor do they have a clear starting 2b with Gavin Lux expected to open at AAA.
What is the deal with Lux? He was a real good prospect, then he's kind of fallen off the planet. Is it attitude issues? There was a lot of vagueness regarding him showing up late, etc.
The Dodgers nor Lux ever went public with why he was late but it was not believed to be disciplinary. Both he and Brendan Rodgers have been pretty awful so far as MLB players but very limited SSS so far.
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Dodgers have checked in on Trevor Bauer and are believed to have interest on a short-term deal. Word is, he’d love to be in SoCal , and he’s said he’d consider short deals. Dodgers showed short-term interest in Greinke and Harper but stars usually prefer the biggest haul.
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In comment 15129202 DanMetroMan said:
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should be noted, the Dodgers are letting Hernandez walk and over the past 2 seasons 22 hitters in baseball have been worse which includes guys like Mallex Smith, Roughed Odor, Joe Panik and Rio Ruiz Link - ( New Window )
I'm pretty sure the LAD expected him to get more $ than they can afford to bring him back. Interesting in the link supposedly he specifically wanted a 1 year deal where he can get 500 plate appearances. Dodgers Rumors: Kiké Hernandez’s Reported Contract Demands Likely End His Time in LA - ( New Window )
You don't think the Dodgers would have offered him 1 year and 500 PA's if they felt he was worthy of that? How does that compute? If anything that should be cause for concern. The team that knows him best won't give him an expanded role for 1 year when their starting 3b is a FA and he's their starter at 2b as of now.
I live in dodger country and everyone loves the guy. I have no idea why they are letting him go or what's going on behind the scenes but my best guess would be the anticipation of Lux is the primary issue w/ playing time at 2b. He only just turned 23 and spent time in the big leagues each of the last couple years.
A: I’m not sure their bench was better than that in 2018, at least not until David Freese and Brian Dozier arrived in summer trades. Ríos, in particular, is an asset as a pinch-hitter, similar to Joc Pederson on days the Dodgers faced a left-hander. Matt Beaty manned the bench for much of 2019. The difference would really just be Zach McKinstry replacing Kiké Hernández. In 608 plate appearances over the last two seasons, Hernández logged an 86 OPS+, or 14 points below league average. Hernández is an excellent defender, no doubt, but I imagine the Dodgers expect McKinstry will approach that offensive line.
Also, I don’t think Lux will be a long-term member of the bench. Especially after his shortened 2020 season, the Dodgers will want him playing as much as possible. If that’s not at second base in the majors, it’ll be in Triple A. So, for that reason, I could see an acquisition taking that last bench spot. Or that acquisition could bump Taylor into that spot.
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.
@BNightengale
·
57s
Michael Brantley is returning to the #Astros on a two-year, $32 million contract, @MarkBermanFox26
is reporting.
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.
I never claimed anything either way about the LT, but being willing to exceed the LT and not be willing to overpay Springer could both be true.
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My question is this...if the claim is @Mets
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.
I never claimed anything either way about the LT, but being willing to exceed the LT and not be willing to overpay Springer could both be true.
PJ,
100% was not aimed at anybody in particular. But if the luxury tax isn't a consideration then what is an "overpay"? Why would Cohen personally care about spending a little more over 5 years? Why would Hand even be potentially headed somewhere else? Pretty clearly it's something they are taking into consideration. Do we really think they valued May over Hendriks for example? Cohen's personal wealth would suggest signing ALL of the top names and they haven't even pretended that's the plan or goal. I suspect they are willing to go over but will look to avoid it unless they have to. That's how this appears. I doubt they prefer Lucchesi over Quintana... but one is making 8, the other the minimum.
They stuck to their guns on what they thought a good deal was for Springer.
They were aggressive on McCann as opposed to Realmuto because they saw value there and they weren't willing to wait and get into a bidding war.
Carrasco was obviously highly appealing because of the value of his deal.
They've said they prefer to stick to 1 year on Hand and might have claimed him even though the $10m was "perhaps a little high".
Lindor is someone they clearly think is worth a big deal.
After the Lindor trade Sandy said something like (paraphrasing) "we aren't done but we are unlikely to sign anyone who is in demand and gets a big deal". I think that's exactly what happened with Springer bc Toronto made a pretty big move up from the initial reports of their offers around $110-115m. I'd imagine that's what will happen with Bauer too.
I'd bet on a bad contract swap or an outright buyout stretched over a bunch of years. Or just eating a ton of $ to ship him out, but I think that counts against the LTT so maybe not? I need to find a good explainer of LTT rules now that it's something we need to consider lol.
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have to figure out what to do with Cano. Owed 40 million 2022-2023, it's a real issue.
I'd bet on a bad contract swap or an outright buyout stretched over a bunch of years. Or just eating a ton of $ to ship him out, but I think that counts against the LTT so maybe not? I need to find a good explainer of LTT rules now that it's something we need to consider lol.
Any money they send out counts against the luxury tax. A buyout also counts against the luxury tax it can just be reduced with deferrals. There is no "clean" way out of Cano's contract barring another PED suspension.
1 word - flexibility. The issue isn't the money as much as the desire to maintain flexibility to move on from players if they aren't performing and the more money you guarantee the harder that is.
I believe a big part of the appeal with Lucchesi is that he has options and can possible swing the pen if necessary. He has flexibility.
If you give a player $8m to start, that's what he's doing. With Thor potentially coming back midseason I think it makes sense to try to have as much flexibility with whatever resources allocated to the starting rotation as possible. They have said from day 1 that they want to spend smart and the LTT is a consideration, Cohen said point blank they weren't going to spend like drunken sailors.
Maybe they want to give Peterson and Matz each a chance in the rotation if they earn spots? Maybe they just think the $8m can go further to help elsewhere? The $8m could be a choice between Quintana and Hand. Or Quintana and Wong or Hernandez. Maybe they like another FA SP better than Quintana. Who knows?
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coming back would give them 4 MLB caliber SP's. How would Quintana impact that? As of right now, he'd be the 4, he'd become the 5 with Syndergaard back.
Maybe they want to give Peterson and Matz each a chance in the rotation if they earn spots? Maybe they just think the $8m can go further to help elsewhere? The $8m could be a choice between Quintana and Hand. Or Quintana and Wong or Hernandez. Maybe they like another FA SP better than Quintana. Who knows?
Matz is guaranteed 800,000. If flexibility is the issue, then isn't that the epitome of it? Spending 800,000 for insurance? How much cheaper of an option can you get? And why are we suddenly choosing between Quintana and Hand if the lux tax isn't the issue? I thought you said overpaying was the issue? Which of Hand/Quintana is an overpay at 8 million? I'm not seeing one.
No, I think they are considering it as a possible outcome because it's a possible outcome. If they thought Matz was the worst SP in baseball they wouldn't have even bothered tendering him. And Peterson not only pitched decent last year despite being forced into action but was also a first round pick of this regime.
And they are obviously not opposed to adding SP to compete with those guys - they did exactly that trading for Luchessi. And they apparently inquired about Sony Gray. And they attended Kluber's showcase. They are clearly still looking.
I don't think there's any grand conspiracy behind why they didn't sign Quintana other than they didn't think it was the best use of $8m. Simple as that. They could be right or they could be wrong. I'll wait to hold judgement until we see what they do the rest of the offseason.
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really in your heart believe the Mets have not added a SP because they want to give both Peterson and Matz a chance to win 2 of the rotation spots and don't want to "block" Thor if they do?
No, I think they are considering it as a possible outcome because it's a possible outcome. If they thought Matz was the worst SP in baseball they wouldn't have even bothered tendering him. And Peterson not only pitched decent last year despite being forced into action but was also a first round pick of this regime.
And they are obviously not opposed to adding SP to compete with those guys - they did exactly that trading for Luchessi. And they apparently inquired about Sony Gray. And they attended Kluber's showcase. They are clearly still looking.
I don't think there's any grand conspiracy behind why they didn't sign Quintana other than they didn't think it was the best use of $8m. Simple as that. They could be right or they could be wrong. I'll wait to hold judgement until we see what they do the rest of the offseason.
They were considering both non-tendering and salary dumping Matz (to Toronto) given his guarantee (833,000) I very much disagree this means they believe in Matz. They almost certainly think it's worth the "risk".
Matz is guaranteed 800,000. If flexibility is the issue, then isn't that the epitome of it? Spending 800,000 for insurance? How much cheaper of an option can you get? And why are we suddenly choosing between Quintana and Hand if the lux tax isn't the issue? I thought you said overpaying was the issue? Which of Hand/Quintana is an overpay at 8 million? I'm not seeing one.
Who said the luxury tax isn't an issue? Sandy Alderson on luxury tax threshold a couple weeks ago:
Both Sandy and Cohen have echo'd similar sentiments consistently since their intro press conference so not sure why there's surprise that they didn't sign 1 specific back end SP when they just traded for a different back end option 2 days ago.
Maybe, especially as a new owner, he doesn't want to be perceived (by other owners, the media, et al) as "buying a championship", like Steinbrenner was at one time.
He might not be comfortable, in his first season, being the only team owner (most likely) to surpass the LT threshold.
They were considering both non-tendering and salary dumping Matz (to Toronto) given his guarantee (833,000) I very much disagree this means they believe in Matz. They almost certainly think it's worth the "risk".
"Worth the risk" isn't the most ringing endorsement but it is an endorsement nonetheless.
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In comment 15129243 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
My question is this...if the claim is @Mets
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.
I never claimed anything either way about the LT, but being willing to exceed the LT and not be willing to overpay Springer could both be true.
PJ,
100% was not aimed at anybody in particular. But if the luxury tax isn't a consideration then what is an "overpay"? Why would Cohen personally care about spending a little more over 5 years? Why would Hand even be potentially headed somewhere else? Pretty clearly it's something they are taking into consideration. Do we really think they valued May over Hendriks for example? Cohen's personal wealth would suggest signing ALL of the top names and they haven't even pretended that's the plan or goal. I suspect they are willing to go over but will look to avoid it unless they have to. That's how this appears. I doubt they prefer Lucchesi over Quintana... but one is making 8, the other the minimum.
I don't think that being willing to surpass the luxury tax if and when it makes sense means they don't have line in the sand values they place on players in terms of max $$ per ACV or max TCV.
I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
@JimBowdenGM
The #BlueJays can now focus attention on @BauerOutage
Brad Hand & perhaps even Marcel Ozuna who would fit nicely at DH and AAV not expected to be much more than Brantley was going to get. Not sure if Brantley deal fell apart over medicals or a Dwight Howard type miscommunication
Paxton might be asking too much, I read he was looking for more than what Kluber got
I don't think being willing to exceed the luxury tax for the right opportunity means the Mets are willing or planning to outbid the rest of baseball on every free agent in which they have interest.
I think they set limits and if a case can be made to exceed those limits they will. I don't think these decisions (2 years 14M vs 2 years 16M in your example for Hand) are made in a vacuum, they're part of a broader plan, and until we hear the Mets lost out on a player they considered must have you are dabbling in conjecture.
Sure but I also saw fans killing Cohen that they weren't doing anything the day before he traded for Lindor. So I don't put a ton of stock in what most fans suggest (this board notwithstanding because I think the NYM group here is as knowledgeable as any fan conversation gets).
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Brad Hand goes to Toronto for (an example) 2 years 16 million, and the Mets place the "value" of him at 2 years 14 million. What's the point of the valuation? For Cohen to personally spend 2 million less? Why wouldn't the Mets be the favorites for every single "smaller" FA target (where the salary differences are minimal)?
I don't think being willing to exceed the luxury tax for the right opportunity means the Mets are willing or planning to outbid the rest of baseball on every free agent in which they have interest.
I think they set limits and if a case can be made to exceed those limits they will. I don't think these decisions (2 years 14M vs 2 years 16M in your example for Hand) are made in a vacuum, they're part of a broader plan, and until we hear the Mets lost out on a player they considered must have you are dabbling in conjecture.
"For the right opportunity" is my point. They ARE trying to stay under if they can.
So I would not expect him to pursue Bauer. Losing Porter means no alternative voice.
I don't think most people expected one.
I for one (won't speak for others) prefer a methodical, deliberate, plan.
have a goal for
a) improving the major league team (my preference is focus on defense and pitching)
b) improve the farm
c) improve the behind the scenes areas - analytics, scouting, minor league philosophy, development, etc.
d) improve the fan experience (make Citi more "Mets", fanfest, old timers day, etc.)
none of it involved going hog wild in free agency
Sandy said they would have probably claimed Hand even though it was at a slightly higher number than true value. Each player is a case by case judgement call so all I can infer from Quintana, or Happ, or whatever other players sign with other organizations is that they made the judgement to put their priorities elsewhere.
When we see what they do with their money we can certainly debate what the best use was. For example I still think there's possibly a case to be made that if it were an option, they should have only traded for Carrasco, kept Gimenez, and then been more aggressive to sign Springer for $150m vs. paying Lindor $300m. But I'd suggest that knowing it may not have been an option. They said Cleveland wanted to couple Lindor and Carrasco together and they may not have been willing to deal them separately. They may have just taken the next best offer for both from someone else.
@AnthonyDiComo
·
23m
Robinson Canó intends to join Águilas for their upcoming Caribbean Series berth. Canó previously played eight games for Estrellas in the Dominican Winter League, batting .353 with three home runs.
Águilas will play against the champions from P.R., VZ, Mexico, Colombia & Panama.
I don't think most people expected one.
I for one (won't speak for others) prefer a methodical, deliberate, plan.
have a goal for
a) improving the major league team (my preference is focus on defense and pitching)
b) improve the farm
c) improve the behind the scenes areas - analytics, scouting, minor league philosophy, development, etc.
d) improve the fan experience (make Citi more "Mets", fanfest, old timers day, etc.)
none of it involved going hog wild in free agency
Sandy was always exceedingly patient and prudent so Shecky's warning seemed very likely.
I would actually say that Lindor + Carrasco + McCann + May + a SP via trade has already exceeded what I expected. Had you asked me to predict then I think I would have said 1 of the big 3 plus a few other mid or low level signings. Lindor is probably a level above the big 3 and Carrasco is pretty close to the level or above when factoring in how good his contract is, so I think they already added 2 top players plus a few solid mid level moves.
I know he refused to sign early, but if he ends up settling for something like that I'd be disappointed they went out hot for McCann. I like everything we've heard about McCann and think his deal is completely fair but Realmuto is probably still a tier above even in a best case. to the point above in the scenario I posted above, that would have been a nice use of the $150m saved on Springer as opposed to Lindor.
TOS. Almost always a career ender. Did in Harvey, the success rate coming back is near zero. Chris Young is one of the success stories...
Link - ( New Window )
There may be an injury worse but TOS is up there. I’m sure with time there will be advancements but I remember going down the rabbit hole when Harvey had it.. it’s a really sad list of guys who were good and then never made it back
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didnt realize he had the same situation as Harvey. What a shame.
There may be an injury worse but TOS is up there. I’m sure with time there will be advancements but I remember going down the rabbit hole when Harvey had it.. it’s a really sad list of guys who were good and then never made it back
I have a friend who got it and his arm blew up about twice it's normal size. He had to have emergency surgery and it happened while he was traveling which made it even more of a nightmare.
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"warned" us in November people expecting a free agent free for all would be disappointed.
I don't think most people expected one.
I for one (won't speak for others) prefer a methodical, deliberate, plan.
have a goal for
a) improving the major league team (my preference is focus on defense and pitching)
b) improve the farm
c) improve the behind the scenes areas - analytics, scouting, minor league philosophy, development, etc.
d) improve the fan experience (make Citi more "Mets", fanfest, old timers day, etc.)
none of it involved going hog wild in free agency
Sandy was always exceedingly patient and prudent so Shecky's warning seemed very likely.
I would actually say that Lindor + Carrasco + McCann + May + a SP via trade has already exceeded what I expected. Had you asked me to predict then I think I would have said 1 of the big 3 plus a few other mid or low level signings. Lindor is probably a level above the big 3 and Carrasco is pretty close to the level or above when factoring in how good his contract is, so I think they already added 2 top players plus a few solid mid level moves.
Yeah folks really just got emotionally attached to the idea of Springer or Bauer in a Mets uniform and for some reason aren't recognizing the Lindor is a bigger get...
My feeling has always been: this is offseason #1! Just because we have some money doesn't mean we need to sign the best free agents available THIS offseason. There will be more and there will be better... the awesome thing is that the Mets are $25M under the luxury tax and were still in the running for Springer!!
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In comment 15129378 Italianju said:
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didnt realize he had the same situation as Harvey. What a shame.
There may be an injury worse but TOS is up there. I’m sure with time there will be advancements but I remember going down the rabbit hole when Harvey had it.. it’s a really sad list of guys who were good and then never made it back
I have a friend who got it and his arm blew up about twice it's normal size. He had to have emergency surgery and it happened while he was traveling which made it even more of a nightmare.
It’s not good (as I’m sure you know far better than I do). As with anything else I’m sure there will be advances but I’d bet against Archer making it back. Not trying to be cruel but it’s yet to happen so...
My feeling has always been: this is offseason #1! Just because we have some money doesn't mean we need to sign the best free agents available THIS offseason. There will be more and there will be better... the awesome thing is that the Mets are $25M under the luxury tax and were still in the running for Springer!!
They added arguably the best player who will switch teams this offseason and the second best pitcher. And they were still willing to offer 9 figures to the 2nd best position player on the market. That would have been like going after Nomar or Adrian Beltre even after signing Beltran and Pedro. Also sort of proves out that while they say they view the LTT as an important threshold, they are still willing to approach it or surpass in the right circumstance.
Maybe, especially as a new owner, he doesn't want to be perceived (by other owners, the media, et al) as "buying a championship", like Steinbrenner was at one time.
He might not be comfortable, in his first season, being the only team owner (most likely) to surpass the LT threshold.
I agree with this. This has been my theory all along on Cohen not wanting to blow past the luxury tax right away.
When the Dodgers were sold to their current ownership group they exceeded the luxury tax in their first year.
Based on what I know about Cohen (which is admittedly from Bobby Axelrod in Billions) I doubt he gives a shit what other owners think. Plus the tax goes to many of them, so IMO they'd love to see him overpay for players like Bauer and Springer and be "stuck" with them and not able to improve the team without exceeding the luxury tax. Other owners HAVE to love when a team exceeds the tax and loses.
My opinion is he's being more measured and not just buying players because he can afford it. He wants to build for the long term and isn't impetuous like fans.
LAD won a WS after trading for Betts so obviously I'm not saying they should pack up and head to PSL without making any other moves or send back Lindor, just that building a winning organization is hard to do overnight. The pieces that get added have to get added carefully even if it's "just money". There is always an opportunity cost. The pieces need to fit together and there has to be a connective philosophy that produces more than the sum of the parts.
We agree that maybe it's not the actual tax $ that Cohen is afraid of. The concern is spending unwisely for the long term.
Maybe if Springer was 27-28 instead of pushing 32, they would've spent whatever it took.
If he signs for anywhere close to this deal then the Mets are going to regret not being more aggressive in their pursuit of Realmuto.
4/40 for McCann vs 5/110 for Realmuto is really a no brainer given the difference in player. And it will really hurt to see him with the Braves.
I also don't believe the fear of being the only owner over the luxury tax played into Cohen's decision making at all.
I like McCann and understand their aggression required a willing partner but would still be disappointed. Especially if ends up in the division.
Also interestingly both Cain and Hernandez are mentioned as possibilities they are exploring for CF. I want Hernandez but not necessarily as a CF, so I'm hoping there's a way they can get them both.
The agent switch with Hand doesn't seem to bode well but who knows.
Mets chose the possibility of Michael Conforto tomorrow over George Springer today Also updates on Jackie Bradley Jr., Brad Hand, and more - ( New Window )
They love Conforto and want to extend him and they want to extend Lindor and didn't think they can do both with Springer.
Also, says they have multiple options being kicked around for CF and expects that decision is not yet made.
I'm paraphrasing from the article.
Link below.
link - ( New Window )
Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.
You're right. I should've said if he was 27-28 instead of 31..
Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.
I prefer the way Martino phrased it - it's not about not being able to afford both, but signing both (Conforto and Springer) provides limited flexibility.
What would be a disaster is if neither Conforto or Lindor are extended with the Mets and they lost out on Springer because of those two.
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they were worried about 2 guys who would be expensive into their mid-30's (1 having to man a premium defensive spot).
Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.
I prefer the way Martino phrased it - it's not about not being able to afford both, but signing both (Conforto and Springer) provides limited flexibility.
What would be a disaster is if neither Conforto or Lindor are extended with the Mets and they lost out on Springer because of those two.
I'm not really worried about losing guys we want now. They will be willing to pay the cost. I'd imagine it's probably how a Maple Leafs fan feels about their stars. If they want them they aren't going anywhere.
But totally agree that they are prioritizing flexibility. And I think that's 100% the correct way to do things.
This is just a guess, but my guess is there isn't any fire there, maybe not even smoke. I don't see Realmuto having much interest in Atlanta.
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In on Realmuto. That would... suck
This is just a guess, but my guess is there isn't any fire there, maybe not even smoke. I don't see Realmuto having much interest in Atlanta.
Should we order our Kike jerseys yet or no?
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In comment 15129686 Eric on Li said:
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they were worried about 2 guys who would be expensive into their mid-30's (1 having to man a premium defensive spot).
Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.
I prefer the way Martino phrased it - it's not about not being able to afford both, but signing both (Conforto and Springer) provides limited flexibility.
What would be a disaster is if neither Conforto or Lindor are extended with the Mets and they lost out on Springer because of those two.
I'm not really worried about losing guys we want now. They will be willing to pay the cost. I'd imagine it's probably how a Maple Leafs fan feels about their stars. If they want them they aren't going anywhere.
But totally agree that they are prioritizing flexibility. And I think that's 100% the correct way to do things.
I'm not worrying about it, simply stating a fact, that giving up Gimenez, Rosario and Wolff for a Lindor rental and missing out on Springer in anticipation of extending Lindor and Conforto will be a disaster if those extensions don't happen.
And Boras is so savvy he knows this. Good thing is Sandy is pretty savvy too.
Should be interest to see how it plays out.
Don't really want them trading for Suarez due to prospect cost. Aren't going to trade for Arenado's contract.
Free agents are pretty thin. Perhaps a Semien could play there or a LaStella. Is there anyone I am missing?
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think the Mets may pivot to upgrading 3b vs. CF.
Don't really want them trading for Suarez due to prospect cost. Aren't going to trade for Arenado's contract.
Free agents are pretty thin. Perhaps a Semien could play there or a LaStella. Is there anyone I am missing?
Bryant?
Anyone who has seen him play a lot as a defender, any feedback? Is he a plus glove or just league average?
Anyone who has seen him play a lot as a defender, any feedback? Is he a plus glove or just league average?
Average to slightly below at 3b. Big guy so that comes with some issues.
Not the only team...
Re: Bryant. Worth a flyer, absolutely. Buttttt Analytics are convinced he's done, though I'm not convinced he can't make the adjustments. Secondly, pick him up and youre closer to the Tax. It isn't the financial penalty, but lets say you go over and your strategy is to recoup picks if/when Bryant, Thor etc leave? Well, your picks, pool $ and IFA $$ are all SHOT. That's a major concern about going over. Go over for a final piece, no prob though...
You think a 10 slot drop for a repeat offender is substantial? I guess agree to disagree. Picking 34nd vs. 24th is a minimal penalty.
12:07 How much should we read in to Brand Hand’s velo dip? Still was great last year of course.
AvatarDan Szymborski
12:08 It's a concern, especially as it was the second year in a row. What's a REALLY big concern is the fact that you pair that with the fact that he very suddenly lost a quarter of his swinging strikes in one fell swoop
It's unusual, more so given his age (28 in April) and the fact he's been playing 3b his entire pro career and physical limitations. But if you want an example Arenado went from an iffy minor league defensive player to one of the best ever to do it.
12:21 I don't think *huge* but they'd have roles
I'd much prefer McNeil/Lindor/Wong left to right over Davis/Lindor/McNeil
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
2m
Baseball America's Top 100 prospects list ranked:
-Francisco Alvarez No. 48
-Ronny Mauricio No. 65
-Matthew Allan No. 98
Baseball Prospectus ranked:
-Mauricio No. 42
-Allan No. 79
-Alvarez No. 84
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(like JDD) significantly improving their defense in the majors?
It's unusual, more so given his age (28 in April) and the fact he's been playing 3b his entire pro career and physical limitations. But if you want an example Arenado went from an iffy minor league defensive player to one of the best ever to do it.
Thanks Dan. Doesn't look good long term for JDD at 3rd
Shecky,
I'm honestly confused. A repeat offender has their first pick dropped 10 slots. I assume you're referencing something else?
"For the most part, the penalties for exceeding the CBT are fine-based. A first-time exceeder has to pay a 20 percent fine on its overage; a two-time exceeder has to pay a 30 percent fine; beyond that it's a 50 percent fine. There are also surtaxes for exceeding by $20 million (12 percent); $40 million (42.5 percent); and repeating over $40 million (45 percent).
A team that goes more than $40 million over also has its highest draft pick moved down 10 spots provided it isn't picking in the top six. In those cases, which would seem to be rare, the team's second selection would be dropped 10 spots."
12:21 I don't think *huge* but they'd have roles
I'd much prefer McNeil/Lindor/Wong left to right over Davis/Lindor/McNeil
I completely agree that upgrading 2b is the easier way to improve overall IF defense. But it depends on what they think of McNeil at 3b. He was good 1 year and bad 1 year in limited action. If he's comfortable there I'd do it though.
Also why I think signing Kike is a better hedge because if McNeil struggles at 3b you can get Kike ABs somewhere else whereas Wong is likely a 2b only.
Conforto has been average or better since day one by OAA, so while pre-MLB scouting reports may have been down on him, he has been "good" since day one. JDD was viewed as a DH type even coming out of college, and has stunk defensively since day one. This is from his draft report
"Defense: 45/45
Davis is getting drafted on the basis of his bat, so don't expect much from him with the glove; lack of athleticism doesn't give him much lateral quickness; displays poor reaction times; can make all the routine plays and just has to catch the ball as a first baseman. "
I'd suggest the 28 year olds who suddenly were passable defensively at a legit defensive position ie not 1b is a very, very small list.
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You’re much smarter than that Dan, I know you are. You know it isn’t a ten slot slide... I’ll just leave it at that.
Shecky,
I'm honestly confused. A repeat offender has their first pick dropped 10 slots. I assume you're referencing something else?
"For the most part, the penalties for exceeding the CBT are fine-based. A first-time exceeder has to pay a 20 percent fine on its overage; a two-time exceeder has to pay a 30 percent fine; beyond that it's a 50 percent fine. There are also surtaxes for exceeding by $20 million (12 percent); $40 million (42.5 percent); and repeating over $40 million (45 percent).
A team that goes more than $40 million over also has its highest draft pick moved down 10 spots provided it isn't picking in the top six. In those cases, which would seem to be rare, the team's second selection would be dropped 10 spots."
Draft compensation pool reduction from sliding back? If I'm reading this list right a 10 pick drop would have cost us almost $3m in pool money this year had it been incurred.
Here are the 2020 Draft pools and bonus values - ( New Window )
It's not meaningful enough to have it stop you from being concerned about being a repeat offender at the big league level.
So yeah, it's a very minimal penalty all things considered.
Either way I don't think going over is a big deal and whatever his concerns Shecky said he'd go over for a final piece type of move. I think they viewed Springer that way and I think that's why everyone was obviously in favor of that. For a back end starter or depth pickup though I can see why the difference in who can be picked up cheaper (like Luchessi was) may not be worth the extra $ and draft capital out the door.
Obviously you want a good farm system (it's critical to helping you win at the major league level), you want good analytics, good operations, good development, etc.
but the goal, why we are all here, is to win at the major league level.
If as a team you exceed the luxury tax threshold it should be a strategic decision, made because you feel like exceeding that LT enables you to get over the hump and win - AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL.
Yes, there is a cost, but IMO that cost is well worth it.
You rarely see a team with major league success and a top tier minor league team. It happens, but it's rare.
so I see the cycle going - do what you can to improve the major league club, do it in a manner that protects the farm to the extent possible (even try and improve the farm too) but when you've built a contender (like the Mets) you can make that cobra strike and do what is necessary to put your team over the top. If that's sign a player LT, trade prospects, and/or exceed the LT - you do it and you are happy to do it.
The Wipons were never willing to go to that next level, but still came up just short in a WS - the difference is they build band-aid teams not sustained for the long haul.
And that's what I'm looking for now.
Either way I don't think going over is a big deal and whatever his concerns Shecky said he'd go over for a final piece type of move. I think they viewed Springer that way and I think that's why everyone was obviously in favor of that. For a back end starter or depth pickup though I can see why the difference in who can be picked up cheaper (like Luchessi was) may not be worth the extra $ and draft capital out the door.
The point is 700,000 in draft pool money loss would be extremely low on the totem pole of issues in deciding to be a repeat lux tax offender. They would have lost about 1.5 million AND a pick for signing any FA tied to a QO and we know they were IN on Springer and were "in" on Realmuto (he wasn't looking to sign quickly) that tells us this penalty if of little concern vs. others.
By my math and their lists, Mets should have a top 10 player at every position except 3B.
Doesn’t mean anything but kinda cool.
By my math and their lists, Mets should have a top 10 player at every position except 3B.
Doesn’t mean anything but kinda cool.
Yes and no, they have Nimmo in CF so assuming he's not, they also won't have a top 10 CF (or are unlikely to).
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Top 10 at every position with Alonso ranking today.
By my math and their lists, Mets should have a top 10 player at every position except 3B.
Doesn’t mean anything but kinda cool.
Yes and no, they have Nimmo in CF so assuming he's not, they also won't have a top 10 CF (or are unlikely to).
Yup just stating what their lists are. I do agree with them though that regardless of defense, Nimmo likely would finish in the top 10 in WAR in CF over a healthy season. His offense accelerates faster as WAR is position specific. His offense, while still great, isn’t worth as much in LF.
He likely won’t be in CF, but I still find it interesting.
Dodgers I agree with, the rarity, built for long-term success.
Let's see the rest sustain the major league success.
The small market teams generally do well until they are forced to trade their good players before having to pay them.
Maybe some like SD is flipping that by spending on players like Machado (though still mostly players on low salaries), and for TB, CLE, MIN etc. I'll believe it when I see it - my sense is they'll be competitive while they have cost controlled young talent.
Good discussion, that IMO takes more than a season or two to reach conclusions because it takes looking back and seeing what they did
Yup. I think looking at it also reaffirms a 3B/2B is the smarter target now(McNeil plays the other spot). As you’ve mentioned there’s a huge drop off from Springer left available while there are plenty of goof IF targets. I think we could get by with a Marisnick/Nimmo platoon if need be if the IF was rock solid.
It's bs. No way do they trade for Lindor without intentions of signing him to a long-term deal.
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What is any of Cohen's talk or money for if they let Lindor walk for "draft picks". That is the opposite of who Steve Cohen represented himself to be.
It's bs. No way do they trade for Lindor without intentions of signing him to a long-term deal.
And trade 2 shortstops in the process.
Turner, Hand, and Marisnick. Invite Gio to ST. Offseason over.
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Mets are hiring Kevin Howard as farm director. He was Indians hitting coordinator.
@mets
?
The point is 700,000 in draft pool money loss would be extremely low on the totem pole of issues in deciding to be a repeat lux tax offender. They would have lost about 1.5 million AND a pick for signing any FA tied to a QO and we know they were IN on Springer and were "in" on Realmuto (he wasn't looking to sign quickly) that tells us this penalty if of little concern vs. others.
Isn't the bold the exact point? They were IN on Springer, even if it made it very likely they were going to get close or go over the LTT. Doesn't that prove that they are willing to be aggressive? They had every excuse to say they were out on him after acquiring Lindor/Carrasco if they wanted to.
And further isn't the Springer situation a perfect example of why you want to have flexibility so that way when a player of his ability comes along you can go after them without penalty?
I mean the biggest spending teams seem to operate this exact same way. They are willing to go over if they have to but they don't go over just to do so. They all seem to try to preserve flexibility and avoid repeat offender status.
Carton & Evan said rumor is 5 years $185mil.
Didn't say where he heard it from
If they sign him for multiple years, I wonder if on the flip side they'd consider moving Stroman, since that would bring the chances of resigning him down to 0.
Feinsand simply said the Mets and Angels are in the best position to land him. This is complete BS from Carton.
"Mets team president Sandy Alderson made it clear early in the winter that he likes Bauer, and even after signing Marcus Stroman, James McCann and Trevor May for a combined $75 million -- then trading for Francisco Lindor, who will earn $22.3 million in 2021 and command a huge extension likely exceeding $300 million -- new owner Steve Cohen has the financial wherewithal to sign Bauer (or anybody else, for that matter).
Pairing Bauer with Jacob deGrom atop the rotation would give the Mets a rock-solid 1-2 punch, with Stroman and eventually Noah Syndergaard forming a stellar group. Having missed out on Springer, will the Mets now turn their attention to Bauer?"
After this year the Mets would have Bauer, Stroman and Syndergaard all free agents.
QO's for all and try and sign Syndergaard (if he returns to pre TJS Syndergaard), see how Bauer pitches, and after winning the world series make the call the call on him too.
Let Stroman go for a pick.
2nd half rotation of
deGrom
Syndergaard
Carrasco
Bauer
Stroman
and then the depth is really depth (they'll need a 5th starter until Syndergaard comes back) and then Matz, Lucchesi, etc. can be used the way they should be used).
but that ship may have sailed, but who knows.
He's been saying this for... 2 months. His new article doesn't say ANYTHING new or revelatory. Carton is a complete BSer. I'd take Bauer in one second but this isn't even a "rumor".
I think they will bring 1 more vet SP into camp but I expect it to be in the 2-4m range and heavily incentive based. That would have 4 guys competing for 2 spots in ST, with 2 of them having options to go down and 2 non-guaranteed vets. Plus Thor coming back midseason.
Thanks Metnut. Still hate that trade, and I hate it more every day.
Stroman could go a long way toward making me not hate it by pitching lights out.
Would we get a 2nd or a 4th of Thor leaves?
Lol. Have absolutely no idea
They love Conforto and want to extend him and they want to extend Lindor and didn't think they can do both with Springer.
Also, says they have multiple options being kicked around for CF and expects that decision is not yet made.
I'm paraphrasing from the article.
Link below. link - ( New Window )
I get the general point but the article doesn’t make a ton of sense. The issue of Springer vs. Conforto existed from the beginning. There’s no reason that should have caused a difference in thinking in the middle of the offseason.
He had an incredible season and has been "ace" good 2 of the last 3. He's not DeGrom but if he's 2018 or 2020 Bauer (or something in between) the Mets would have the best rotation in baseball and the top 1-2 punch in baseball. The question is... who is the real Bauer?
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Mets are hiring Kevin Howard as farm director. He was Indians hitting coordinator.
Something about the Clev organization has Sandy's eye. Wonder if Mike Chernoff is back on the radar for 2022
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claims the Mets chose Conforto over Springer (basically) once they signed Lindor.
They love Conforto and want to extend him and they want to extend Lindor and didn't think they can do both with Springer.
Also, says they have multiple options being kicked around for CF and expects that decision is not yet made.
I'm paraphrasing from the article.
Link below. link - ( New Window )
I get the general point but the article doesn’t make a ton of sense. The issue of Springer vs. Conforto existed from the beginning. There’s no reason that should have caused a difference in thinking in the middle of the offseason.
Not quite, Lindor changed everything, because then it wasn't Conforto and Springer, it was Lindor, Conforto and Springer. and Springer and Conforto tying up something like 50M in two OF spots.
So I think the article says the Mets pursuit of Springer cooled once the Lindor trade was finalized.
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Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Mets are hiring Kevin Howard as farm director. He was Indians hitting coordinator.
Something about the Clev organization has Sandy's eye. Wonder if Mike Chernoff is back on the radar for 2022
They churn out the pitching
Do that and you wind up spending 100+ million and make the lineup WORSE because then either Alonso or Dom has to sit. Or you have to trade Dom or Alonso, probably for pennies on the dollar because you painted yourself into a corner.
Also, how much longer can Springer play CF? A lot of talk about his defense has already slipped. Is a 37 year old Springer really going to play CF?
Finally, you would also basically be committed to letting either Conforto and/or Thor walk.
Sounds like Sandy made just a token effort to get him with a lowball offer. Makes me think Cohen was the one fixated on Springer.