for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Good Morning Mets fans

DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 9:40 am
-Springer a Blue Jay

-Quintana to LAA for 1 year 8. Bummed we didn’t land him at that price. Potential steal.

-Heyman says they had/have interest in Kike Hernandez but he is looking for a starting job. Maybe a platoon in CF with PT in other spots entices him?

-the new head of R& D is close with Justin Turner. Zero indication the Mets are interested but notable.

-have not shown interest in JBJ to this point

-Hand and Colome have both switched agents (Hand’s new agent does not have any Mets clients for anyone looking for that connection)
What are we looking at realistically at this point?  
Chris684 : 1/20/2021 9:44 am : link
Hand and a defensive type CFer?
The Athletic  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 9:46 am : link
Has a piece up with sources saying there were those who did in fact think Porter was a creep or “bad news”
Every team has a budget clearly..  
Sean : 1/20/2021 9:46 am : link
I’m guessing the pending extensions of Lindor & Conforto prevented the Mets from going all in on Springer.
Im hoping they pivot towards Cain  
debo_GIANTS : 1/20/2021 9:46 am : link
If the Brewers are looking to offload some salary, he could be a good fit
I know Sandy has talked about  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 9:53 am : link
being too lefthanded, but Bradley is the best FA CF out there. Wonder how much a Kike/Bradley platoon would cost.

Trade route, Cain looks to be the best option. Don't know what they would give up. Maybe Betances to counteract some of the salary. Wouldn't want to give up much more than that for a salary dump.
RE: I know Sandy has talked about  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 9:57 am : link
In comment 15128746 KDavies said:
Quote:
being too lefthanded, but Bradley is the best FA CF out there. Wonder how much a Kike/Bradley platoon would cost.

Trade route, Cain looks to be the best option. Don't know what they would give up. Maybe Betances to counteract some of the salary. Wouldn't want to give up much more than that for a salary dump.


Gotta figure those 2 cost mid-teens combined. Seems far too pricey for the production to me. At that point go cheap in CF and add Wong. Lindor/Wong would be the best defensive MI in the sport
RE: The Athletic  
Sammo85 : 1/20/2021 9:59 am : link
In comment 15128736 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Has a piece up with sources saying there were those who did in fact think Porter was a creep or “bad news”


And I'm sure none of them spoke up or did anything specific or courageous beforehand until the coast was clear to grab the shovels and throw some dirt on Porter and the Mets.
Sandy  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:00 am : link
Is very friendly with Stearns, gotta figure they are least touch base on Cain
What about a Marcus Semien  
Sammo85 : 1/20/2021 10:00 am : link
I know more of a SS, but seems a type that could play some 3B and 2B as part of a super-utility rotation with McNeil and maybe Davis if he's kept on.
I still think something around Cain/JDD makes sense  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 10:04 am : link
with some salary being offset either by MIL kicking in prospects or taking back Betances or Familia.

JDD's bat plays and he could play for them in a variety of spots - OF, 3b, 1b, or DH. 1B would seem most likely since it looks like their current depth chart is topped by Daniel Vogelbach.

If anything I would think MIL would need to sweeten the pot with a prospect since they'd be saving $ and getting a cost controlled young bat.
RE: What about a Marcus Semien  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:05 am : link
In comment 15128760 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
I know more of a SS, but seems a type that could play some 3B and 2B as part of a super-utility rotation with McNeil and maybe Davis if he's kept on.


He’s certainly worth calling but he’s going to be a starter and doesn’t help their CF needs. Wong is probably a better fit if they pivot off of CF
Not  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:09 am : link
particularly interested in committing multiple years for a CF platoon at 20ish million. Seems foolish for JBJ/Hernandez.
How about this for an upgraded defense  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 10:10 am : link
JDD + Betances for for Cain (believe this only adds about $5m net for LT payroll)
Sign Wong (let's say $10m to make it easy)
Sign Hand

Think that would all be within the remaining budget and give them multiple time gold glovers at SS, 2B, and CF. McNeil I suppose would become a full time 3B.
Eric  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:12 am : link
sign me up.
Nice move for them  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:12 am : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Kirby Yates deal done and official with Jays. $5.5M guarantee. $4.5M incentives to get to $10M if he pitches in 70 gam
actually it looks like spotrac changed Betances luxury tax salary  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 10:13 am : link
they used to have it 4m higher than his actual cash salary so the above scenario would either require Familia instead or it would be 4m more expensive.
I'd be ok  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 10:13 am : link
going into 2021 with Nimmo, Conforto, and Dom in the OF.

While obviously not ideal, I think you can win with that, and fix it in 2022.

I'm as impatient as every Mets fan, but I hate to think of forcing bad fits or overpays to try and fix every single problem in one off-season.

Use the Springer money on Bauer high ACV low years deal (if Sandy can sell that) and roll with it.
RE: How about this for an upgraded defense  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 10:14 am : link
In comment 15128775 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
JDD + Betances for for Cain (believe this only adds about $5m net for LT payroll)
Sign Wong (let's say $10m to make it easy)
Sign Hand

Think that would all be within the remaining budget and give them multiple time gold glovers at SS, 2B, and CF. McNeil I suppose would become a full time 3B.


That would be best case scenario at this point. Adding great defense, not losing any prospects.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:15 am : link
aimed at anyone on here but I'm really surprised how many people on twitter are willing to spend almost 20 million for the next 2 seasons for a JBJ/Hernandez platoon. Pass from me.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:17 am : link
be all over JDD/Cain (Brewers taking back one of the expensive RP's), then signing Wong and Hand.
my best friend  
KDubbs : 1/20/2021 10:17 am : link
went to dartmouth and is good friends with Matt Klentak. Mets apparently asked permission to talk to him but Klentak turned down the mets. I told my friend to tell him "Good, we dont need any philly scum."

cool story bro i know
Brewers need help at 3B/1B  
debo_GIANTS : 1/20/2021 10:21 am : link
And need to add both some pitching... I think JDD/Familia would be a good fit for them.
RE: Not  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15128784 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
aimed at anyone on here but I'm really surprised how many people on twitter are willing to spend almost 20 million for the next 2 seasons for a JBJ/Hernandez platoon. Pass from me.


I'd be ok but not enthused with that duo. It may be the best they can do and it would be a step in the right direction but that's got to be plan B or C.

I'd be ok with Hernandez (or Turner) being a plan A over Wong if they don't want to play McNeil at 3b. But they did say they are considering him at 3rd so I'm not sure that's the case. Hernandez' versatility over Wong is a plus though even if you are losing some D at 2b. He's also presumably cheaper.
Sign  
ZGiants98 : 1/20/2021 10:27 am : link
Hand and the pitching is virtually complete aside for some ST invites.

With the lineup, both the IF and OF have options. You can add an infielder but Guillorme/Davis are both likely as interesting as whoever you bring in.

A CF could work, but they likely are part of a rotation as none left will provide enough offense to justify sitting Dom or Nimmo if there isn’t a DH.

Losing Springer sucks but now that he’s off the table there isn’t a whole lot left to do.
RE: RE: Not  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:27 am : link
In comment 15128804 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15128784 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


aimed at anyone on here but I'm really surprised how many people on twitter are willing to spend almost 20 million for the next 2 seasons for a JBJ/Hernandez platoon. Pass from me.



I'd be ok but not enthused with that duo. It may be the best they can do and it would be a step in the right direction but that's got to be plan B or C.

I'd be ok with Hernandez (or Turner) being a plan A over Wong if they don't want to play McNeil at 3b. But they did say they are considering him at 3rd so I'm not sure that's the case. Hernandez' versatility over Wong is a plus though even if you are losing some D at 2b. He's also presumably cheaper.


I think it's very silly to commit that kind of money for a very mediocre offensive combination. It seems like it's spending just to spend. Hernandez isn't a good offensive player. I'd sign one or the other. Not have 20ish million on the books for multiple seasons.
Is JBJ  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 10:28 am : link
even a significant defensive upgrade at this point over Nimmo?

Hasn't his D been declining?
RE: Not  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 10:28 am : link
In comment 15128784 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
aimed at anyone on here but I'm really surprised how many people on twitter are willing to spend almost 20 million for the next 2 seasons for a JBJ/Hernandez platoon. Pass from me.


Yeah, I was just thinking out loud. If it's $20 million for the two, pass. Ideally JBJ would be a right. But, maybe they just say eff it and go with the lefty if they can't get a Cain deal done. Cain would be ideal though.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:29 am : link
mean Hernandez over the past 2 seasons is at... 86 wRC+. He's only played 128 career games in CF. He's versatile but that seems silly WITH JBJ. That's substantial money.
Hand would be my number one priority  
ZGiants98 : 1/20/2021 10:29 am : link
Right now. Bolster the hell out of that pen.
RE: RE: Not  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:29 am : link
In comment 15128808 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15128784 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


aimed at anyone on here but I'm really surprised how many people on twitter are willing to spend almost 20 million for the next 2 seasons for a JBJ/Hernandez platoon. Pass from me.



Yeah, I was just thinking out loud. If it's $20 million for the two, pass. Ideally JBJ would be a right. But, maybe they just say eff it and go with the lefty if they can't get a Cain deal done. Cain would be ideal though.


Safe to assume they end up "near" 20 million. I've seen JBJ anywhere from 8-12 per and Kike 7-9 per.
RE: Is JBJ  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15128807 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
even a significant defensive upgrade at this point over Nimmo?

Hasn't his D been declining?


JBJ is still plus in CF. Tied with Bellinger for #1 in OAA in CF.
RE: Brewers need help at 3B/1B  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15128794 debo_GIANTS said:
Quote:
And need to add both some pitching... I think JDD/Familia would be a good fit for them.


The issue with that is Familia makes about $10 million a year, where Betances is half that. If Cain is a salary dump I can see them taking back a Betances, but the Familia contract is a bad one. I don't see it. I see Betances/JDD
RE: RE: Brewers need help at 3B/1B  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15128816 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15128794 debo_GIANTS said:


Quote:


And need to add both some pitching... I think JDD/Familia would be a good fit for them.



The issue with that is Familia makes about $10 million a year, where Betances is half that. If Cain is a salary dump I can see them taking back a Betances, but the Familia contract is a bad one. I don't see it. I see Betances/JDD


in fairness, the Brewers would save 17 million in 2022 (minus whatever JDD makes). But I wouldn't think twice for Betances either.
With  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:41 am : link
Yates off the board, Hand is probably my #1 RP. 1 + a team option or 2 years, yes.
RE: RE: RE: Brewers need help at 3B/1B  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15128821 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15128816 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15128794 debo_GIANTS said:


Quote:


And need to add both some pitching... I think JDD/Familia would be a good fit for them.



The issue with that is Familia makes about $10 million a year, where Betances is half that. If Cain is a salary dump I can see them taking back a Betances, but the Familia contract is a bad one. I don't see it. I see Betances/JDD



in fairness, the Brewers would save 17 million in 2022 (minus whatever JDD makes). But I wouldn't think twice for Betances either.


True, but the savings would be only about $5-6 million this year between Cain and Familia. Then you add in $2.3 million for JDD. I would prefer a Familia/JDD trade than a Betances/JDD, but I don't see the Brewers doing it.
RE: I'd be ok  
Beezer : 1/20/2021 10:58 am : link
In comment 15128781 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
going into 2021 with Nimmo, Conforto, and Dom in the OF.

While obviously not ideal, I think you can win with that, and fix it in 2022.

I'm as impatient as every Mets fan, but I hate to think of forcing bad fits or overpays to try and fix every single problem in one off-season.

Use the Springer money on Bauer high ACV low years deal (if Sandy can sell that) and roll with it.


Been thinking this for a while. Let's say Nimmo turns in an average season - nothing more, nothing less. He'd give you .258, a ton of hustle and a good clubhouse guy, plus an average OPS of 838. Keep adding to the bench and the BP and I think we're fine.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 10:59 am : link
@JesseSanchezMLB
tells @MLBPipeline
(podcast) that "no one really knows" what Colas plans to do (wait for 2022? Sign with a team now?). Many teams have limited information. Teams are looking to work him out first. #Mets
RE: I  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 11:04 am : link
In comment 15128809 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
mean Hernandez over the past 2 seasons is at... 86 wRC+. He's only played 128 career games in CF. He's versatile but that seems silly WITH JBJ. That's substantial money.


Agreed. Also I wouldn't be signing Hernandez for CF. I'd hope to sign him to a 2 year deal to be the utility guy who can start in a variety of spots depending on where you need him. And if McNeil wins 3b it's possibly he could be your primary competition with Guillorme at 2b. Hernandez has been very good defensively by both OAA (+4 the last 2 years) and DRS (+21 the last 2 years combined).

So he's presumably a cheaper, more versatile, alternative to Wong that would still give them very good defense at 2b if that's where he ends up playing.

I have very little interest in JBJ unless they strike out on other options first and get him on a 1 year deal.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:21 am : link
John Flanigan
@jflan816
On @WFAN660
, @JonHeyman
said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets lose Brad Hand to the Blue Jays too.
just went down a bit of a kike hernandez rabbit hole and he's really  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 11:26 am : link
a perfect fit for what they need given the unsettled situations at 2b/3b and the need for OF depth. I think Shecky was talking about him earlier in the offseason and he was dead on. Wong's defense is almost definitely better at 2b, but with Guillorme on the roster is that something they need to pay more for?

Offensively Kike makes more hard contact than Wong and that's backed up by just about every metric - SLG%, exit velocity, hard hit rate, barrel% etc. Though Wong does K less.

Where Hernandez' value really stands out is that he can play anywhere. 2b, 3b, OF, whatever. He's used to coming off the bench. If you pay Wong it's as a starting 2b.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:27 am : link
think you're overstating his ability to play 3b. He's made 3 starts at 3b in 3 years despite the fact Turner was always dinged.
watching a lot of the red sox over the years  
ryanmkeane : 1/20/2021 11:29 am : link
I'll add my two cents on JBJ: he's an incredible fielder and also seems to be a clutch hitter, even though he's not a great hitter obviously. He's a spark type player, and he does get on base quite a bit for someone who doesn't hit for average.
Eric  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:29 am : link
Wong is an ELITE defensive 2b, maybe the best in the sport. Kike Hernandez somehow is getting lumped in as a 3b option... he hasn't played there in years and -1 DRS career
don't want to overpay for a guy like JBJ  
ryanmkeane : 1/20/2021 11:31 am : link
but he's absolutely worth 10M a year.
/  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:31 am : link
Complete pass on Billy Hamilton. He's no longer interesting. Minor league deal as a late-season pinch runner? Sure.
The  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:35 am : link
Mets would likely be worse with Kike Hernandez at 3b than JDD Davis. Davis a far superior offensive player, Hernandez not particularly good at 3b
One  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:40 am : link
thing to remember with the Brewers, they are likely considering themselves playoff contenders in 2021.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:45 am : link
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
·
6m
Wade Davis' deal with the #Royals will pay him $1.25 million if he's on their big-league roster with $925,000 in incentives. He also has an opt-out if he doesn't make their opening-day roster.
If  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:47 am : link
Yelich has anything resembling a normal season the Brewers are a playoff team in 2020. Wild how horrible the NL Central is on paper.
Toronto  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:54 am : link
intensifying their pursuit of Hand, likely only willing to give Bauer 1 year at a huge AAV.
Toronto  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 11:56 am : link
signs Michael Brantley 3 year deal. Wow.
.  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 12:04 pm : link
Tim Ryder
@TimothyRRyder
· 1m
source: Mets have reached out to CIN regarding Sonny Gray and Eugenio Suarez. @Metsmerized report to follow
Metsmerized  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 12:04 pm : link
claims the Mets asked about Gray/Suarez. They would cost the Alvarez/Mauricio's of the world.
100%  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 12:06 pm : link
would cost some of their few top prospects. Essentially emptying the upper levels of the farm.
Reds  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 12:09 pm : link
have Winker/Castellanos in the corners. Votto locked in for years at 1b. Matt Allan would likely go, Mauricio likely too. This would be a painful trade.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 12:15 pm : link
Sonny Gray 7.5 fWAR since 2018, Carlos Carrasco 7.6. Over that time Gray has a 24th in the sport in FIP. His contract is A+ for a team. The cost would be very, very high
Would Mets be willing to take on Votto contract  
CMicks3110 : 1/20/2021 12:15 pm : link
And then just release him?
RE: Toronto  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15128924 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
signs Michael Brantley 3 year deal. Wow.


Interesting. Wonder what they do with Teoscar, Springer, Gurriel, and Brantley. Maybe DH Teoscar?
is Gurriel good at 2B?  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 12:19 pm : link
I know he has played 3B or 2B, but don't know enough about his defense. Biggio could play whichever he doesn't if Gurriel has the defensive ability for the IF
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 12:21 pm : link
Joe DeMayo
@PSLToFlushing
·
2m
I imagine this cost is quite high.

@JonHeyman
said 10 days ago the #Nationals reached out to the #Reds about Suarez and were told a deal would take one of their top 2 prospects Jackson Rutledge or Cade Cavalli as a part of it. This isn’t going to be a “salary dump” move. #Mets
RE: Would Mets be willing to take on Votto contract  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15128943 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
And then just release him?


1. He has a full-no trade 2. His salary could completely cost against the lux tax. Adding those 3 would put the Mets WAY over the luxury tax and have Cano/Votto on the books for 45 million for the next 2, Votto signed through 2024.
Brantley  
DelZotto : 1/20/2021 12:43 pm : link
signs with blue jays
All  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 12:45 pm : link
Of that being said if “all” it took were Mauricio and JDD as headliners I’d do it without thinking twice. It would cost more
RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15128886 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Wong is an ELITE defensive 2b, maybe the best in the sport. Kike Hernandez somehow is getting lumped in as a 3b option... he hasn't played there in years and -1 DRS career


Kolten Wong is #1 in DRS at 2b the past 2 years with 25. Kike Hernandez is #2 with 21. That's why I suggested him ideally competing to win 2b with McNeil at 3b. Do I think Kike (or Guillorme) is as good defensively as Wong? No. But both are cheaper I do think both are likely very positive impact defenders. McNeil has also been a good defensive 2b.

Also Kike's versatility is a definitive plus over Wong because even if there are positions he hasn't played much (like 3b, ss, cf) Wong has only ever played 2b since 2016. Obviously I wouldn't be looking to put Hernandez in those positions for an extended period of time, just pointing out he has the versatility if it's needed. And it's likely he'd get some time in the OF because we have so few OF'ers on the roster right now.
2b DRS from 2019-2020 - ( New Window )
Wong  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:05 pm : link
+19 OAA at 2b (since 2017) Hernandez not even close at +2. There is a reason one is considered a GG caliber 2b.
Link - ( New Window )
Wong  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:06 pm : link
was Law's #9 FA, Hernandez wasn't in his top 40.


9. Kolten Wong, 2B, age 30

The Cardinals made a shocking choice by declining Wong’s $12.5 million option for 2021, making him a free agent just one year after he posted a 3.7 fWAR/5.2 bWAR, which puts him among the 10 most valuable free agents by total value in 2019-20. He’s a high-contact, low-exit velocity hitter who gets on base at an above-median clip for a second baseman, and after some ups and downs under Mike Matheny — who, for whatever reason, never seemed to warm to Wong as a regular — has hit .285/.362/.403 in the year-plus since Matheny was fired, with plus defense since he reached the majors. He was second among all second basemen in Outs Above Average in 2019, and led in both dRS and UZR. Wong does have a platoon split, but he’s become capable enough against lefties that he doesn’t have to sit against them. He doesn’t have much power, and shouldn’t really try to pull the ball too much, as he’s better when he uses the whole field and goes for contact. He’s an above-average regular right now, an asset to almost any contender, and should be for the length of a four- or five-year deal.
MLBTR  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:07 pm : link
had Wong 25, Hernandez not in their top 50


25. Kolten Wong – Red Sox. Two years, $16MM. The Cardinals’ decision to decline Wong’s $12.5MM club option came as a surprise to some, but this has long seemed like a plausible outcome. Wong’s profile — a pure second baseman lacking in power — is not one that gets paid well even in a normal offseason. Cesar Hernandez found himself non-tendered with a lower projected salary just one offseason ago, for instance.

Wong, 30, was drafted 22nd overall out of University of Hawaii at Manoa by the Cardinals in 2011. He’s been an above-average hitter twice in his career, with 108 wRC+ seasons in 2017 and ’19. Moving forward, I think offensive production right around league average can be expected from Wong.

Wong shines defensively, picking up a Gold Glove last year and showing strong marks in UZR, DRS, and outs above average. Still, I’m not convinced defense-first, second-base only players like Wong or Cesar Hernandez will do well in free agency. The Cardinals may try to retain Wong at a lesser rate, but otherwise the Red Sox, Angels, Blue Jays, Diamondbacks, Indians, Tigers, or Yankees could be fits.
Brantley  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:11 pm : link
to Toronto not done yet apparently.
RE: Brantley  
JB_in_DC : 1/20/2021 1:12 pm : link
In comment 15129024 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
to Toronto not done yet apparently.


Seems like this kind of thing has been happening more often than usual this year.
there's no doubt Wong is an elite defensively (few win GG accidently)  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 1:14 pm : link
but every metric seemingly has Kike Hernandez as a very good defender there as well. And we know Guillorme was very good there (and mcneil solid when he's been there). They have options at 2b.

The question with Wong isn't if he's the best option defensively - he is. The question is if the extra $ makes a bigger difference with that improvement vs. improving elsewhere. Hernandez helps reinforce multiple positions and being cheaper allows them to spend more money elsewhere.
How  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:32 pm : link
does Rich Coutinho have press credentials/ He's horrid
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:34 pm : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
8m
There is no deal for Michael Brantley. The sides continue to talk. Sorry for jumping the gun.
here's a very thorough article from Mark Simon on Hernandez' D  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 1:35 pm : link
Quote:
It’s understood that part of Hernández’s value is in his utility (heck, he won a Fielding Bible Award in 2020 for multi-position play) and that he’s not a great hitter against right-handed pitching (.235 BA, 25 HR in 553 at-bats the last three seasons). But let’s counter that with the fact that the last two seasons he’s played like an all-world second baseman in the field. Yes, we’d still take Andrelton Simmons as the best defensive player in this free agent class but Hernández has a pretty good highlight reel too.

Hernández has saved 21 runs with his defense in that time in just over 800 innings. By comparison, three-time Fielding Bible Award winner Kolten Wong has three more runs saved than Hernández does, but in nearly twice as many innings. We’ll add that Hernández is one of two infielders to amass at least 10 Range Runs Saved in fewer than 1,000 innings at a position in that span. The other is Rangers third baseman Isiah Kiner-Falefa (who incidentally will be a full-time shortstop in 2021).

It’s hard to fully capture Hernández’s range value visually, but here’s a look at everywhere in which he made a play the last two seasons.




Quote:
In short, Hernández can do just about everything you would want a second baseman to do. Yes, you can have DJ LeMahieu and Kolten Wong and you’ll do extremely well. But Hernandez should be a good first choice at second base for someone.

Kiké Hernández is a defensive gem - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:39 pm : link
Yeah, the Twins (not cutting payroll) are moving Buxton (5 million) to do so lol Doesn't take much to get a press pass I guess? Coutinho now limits who can respond or retweet him.
Kike  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:40 pm : link
Hernandez, NEGATIVE .1 fWAR in 2020, before we make him some hidden gem.
Marwin  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:42 pm : link
Gonzalez is likely cheaper and offers much of the same upside. Positive DRS all over the field.
Gonzalez  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:45 pm : link
positive career DRS at 1b, 2b, 3b, RF, LF and SS
regarding Kike's range  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 1:50 pm : link
not a knock on him at all, as I see the metrics, but how is that illustration helpful with the shift so prevalent? Considering a 2B can line up all over the place, I don't see that the illustration necessarily shows range, or that a 2B lined up all over the place as so often happens.
Arizona  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:55 pm : link
gave Devensi a minor league deal, solid zero risk pickup. Hopefully, the Mets make a few more of these.
Devenski  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 1:56 pm : link
Devenski
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 2:56 pm : link
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
21s
The Los Angeles Dodgers are monitoring the market for right-hander Trevor Bauer and could be a player depending on the price, sources tell ESPN. Focus for the Dodgers now remains on a right-handed infield bat, but Bauer and the Dodgers remain a possibility as his market develops.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:03 pm : link
Alden Gonzalez
@Alden_Gonzalez
·
2m
Only Mookie Betts is currently in the books beyond the 2022 season, though Cody Bellinger and Walker Buehler will be quite expensive by then. Bauer would blow them past the CBT threshold in 2021, but a short-term, high-AAV deal is always appealing to them for a talent like that.
RE: Kike  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15129077 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Hernandez, NEGATIVE .1 fWAR in 2020, before we make him some hidden gem.


he's not a hidden gem, he's a very good utility player/borderline starter. There's nothing hidden about a guy who started 80% of the time for one of the best teams in baseball over the last several years.
RE: Marwin  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15129081 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Gonzalez is likely cheaper and offers much of the same upside. Positive DRS all over the field.


He'd be a perfectly fine signing as well. I'd probably prefer Hernandez but the benefit with Marwin is he's played more 3b and he's played it well by the numbers the past couple years (+5 DRS in 400 innings, +4 OAA). Either would be a very wise investment.
Bauer  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:21 pm : link
would make the Dodgers rotation ridiculous. Their cheap SP is a key to why they are able to make big moves.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:23 pm : link
wouldn't even say the Mets have 5 legitimate SP prospects.

Allan, Ginn, Dominguez, maybe Santos? They have a LOT of work to do in building the farm back up. Especially in terms of SP.
RE: regarding Kike's range  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15129094 KDavies said:
Quote:
not a knock on him at all, as I see the metrics, but how is that illustration helpful with the shift so prevalent? Considering a 2B can line up all over the place, I don't see that the illustration necessarily shows range, or that a 2B lined up all over the place as so often happens.


That's a good point - in theory I suppose they could pull out the chances in shifted alignments because SIS does video review to inform their metrics. I'm not sure if they did that but here's another metric from the article that adds a little more evidence to the point Simon was making with the chart.

Quote:
When you watched Hernández play second base in 2020, the thing that stood out the most was his hustle. He was aggressive in going after balls. According to charting by SIS Video Scouts, Hernández sprinted for 26 balls as a second baseman last season and successfully made the play on 22 of those attempts. His 85% success rate was easily the highest among the 20 second basemen with the most attempts last season.

Highest Success Rate on Sprints – 2020 Season

Name Plays Made/Opportunities %
Kiké Hernández 22/26 85%
Kolten Wong 32/44 73%
Keston Hiura 18/26 69%
Danny Mendick 15/22 68%
Jays  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:26 pm : link
also in on Bauer
It  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:30 pm : link
should be noted, the Dodgers are letting Hernandez walk and over the past 2 seasons 22 hitters in baseball have been worse which includes guys like Mallex Smith, Roughed Odor, Joe Panik and Rio Ruiz
Link - ( New Window )
maybe im crazy but I don't really want bauer or the Reds trade  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 3:31 pm : link
the reds trade would gut the system. That feels so much like a BVW move. Bauer I'm not opposed to just think there might be a better use of $. Unless it's sort of like when the Phillies signed Arrieta not too far off the CY for what seemed like a ridiculous steal of a deal (obviously it didn't work out that way).

I'd much rather split the remaining room they have among a bunch of good depth players. Hand is at the top of the list, a high quality utility guy like Kike/Marwin, something in CF, and then whatever is left to grab a 1 or 2 more veteran pitchers to compete in ST like Gio/Sanchez/etc.
Dodgers  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:32 pm : link
currently do not have a 3b on their roster, nor do they have a clear starting 2b with Gavin Lux expected to open at AAA.
The  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:33 pm : link
Mets have not had discussions with Trevor Bauer per Andy Martino
Bauer  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 3:34 pm : link
is the best use of remaining money.

the Mets traded a top 15 prospect for a JAG (or worse) pitcher because of starting pitching depth.

Also, no one knows how Syndergaard will come back

Bauer, even if you acknowledge Bauer is not a consistent TOR starter, he's the Mets #2 or #3 starter until Syndergaard comes back.

I could understand not wanting to go long-term with Bauer with his inconsistent track record, but short-term there is not better use of $$$ in my opinion.
RE: It  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15129202 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
should be noted, the Dodgers are letting Hernandez walk and over the past 2 seasons 22 hitters in baseball have been worse which includes guys like Mallex Smith, Roughed Odor, Joe Panik and Rio Ruiz Link - ( New Window )


I'm pretty sure the LAD expected him to get more $ than they can afford to bring him back. Interesting in the link supposedly he specifically wanted a 1 year deal where he can get 500 plate appearances.
Dodgers Rumors: Kiké Hernandez’s Reported Contract Demands Likely End His Time in LA - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:36 pm : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
23s
Dodgers main infield target at moment is a righty-hitting infielder, and no surprise Justin Turner is the top choice. They’ve given him a chance to look around in the market but would love him back. They’ve looked at Marcus Semien but might be tough to think they could sign both.
RE: Dodgers  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15129206 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
currently do not have a 3b on their roster, nor do they have a clear starting 2b with Gavin Lux expected to open at AAA.


What is the deal with Lux? He was a real good prospect, then he's kind of fallen off the planet. Is it attitude issues? There was a lot of vagueness regarding him showing up late, etc.
RE: RE: It  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15129212 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15129202 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


should be noted, the Dodgers are letting Hernandez walk and over the past 2 seasons 22 hitters in baseball have been worse which includes guys like Mallex Smith, Roughed Odor, Joe Panik and Rio Ruiz Link - ( New Window )



I'm pretty sure the LAD expected him to get more $ than they can afford to bring him back. Interesting in the link supposedly he specifically wanted a 1 year deal where he can get 500 plate appearances. Dodgers Rumors: Kiké Hernandez’s Reported Contract Demands Likely End His Time in LA - ( New Window )


You don't think the Dodgers would have offered him 1 year and 500 PA's if they felt he was worthy of that? How does that compute? If anything that should be cause for concern. The team that knows him best won't give him an expanded role for 1 year when their starting 3b is a FA and he's their starter at 2b as of now.
RE: Bauer  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15129209 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is the best use of remaining money.

the Mets traded a top 15 prospect for a JAG (or worse) pitcher because of starting pitching depth.

Also, no one knows how Syndergaard will come back

Bauer, even if you acknowledge Bauer is not a consistent TOR starter, he's the Mets #2 or #3 starter until Syndergaard comes back.

I could understand not wanting to go long-term with Bauer with his inconsistent track record, but short-term there is not better use of $$$ in my opinion.


"Unless it's sort of like when the Phillies signed Arrieta not too far off the CY for what seemed like a ridiculous steal of a deal (obviously it didn't work out that way)."

perhaps it was unclear in that wording but the steal with Arrieta was that he only got 3 years. The AAV was top of market. If Bauer was willing to sign a shorter deal I'd be quite excited about that.
RE: RE: Dodgers  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15129215 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15129206 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


currently do not have a 3b on their roster, nor do they have a clear starting 2b with Gavin Lux expected to open at AAA.



What is the deal with Lux? He was a real good prospect, then he's kind of fallen off the planet. Is it attitude issues? There was a lot of vagueness regarding him showing up late, etc.


The Dodgers nor Lux ever went public with why he was late but it was not believed to be disciplinary. Both he and Brendan Rodgers have been pretty awful so far as MLB players but very limited SSS so far.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:42 pm : link
“I took a couple days off since we canceled spring training,” he said, noting that he never contemplated opting out of the season. “That three-month break, I wouldn’t say you lose baseball instincts. But it’s just like anything else. You’ve just got to get back into it. It’s going to be crazy here any way you look at it.”
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:43 pm : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Dodgers have checked in on Trevor Bauer and are believed to have interest on a short-term deal. Word is, he’d love to be in SoCal , and he’s said he’d consider short deals. Dodgers showed short-term interest in Greinke and Harper but stars usually prefer the biggest haul.
RE: RE: RE: It  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15129217 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15129212 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15129202 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


should be noted, the Dodgers are letting Hernandez walk and over the past 2 seasons 22 hitters in baseball have been worse which includes guys like Mallex Smith, Roughed Odor, Joe Panik and Rio Ruiz Link - ( New Window )



I'm pretty sure the LAD expected him to get more $ than they can afford to bring him back. Interesting in the link supposedly he specifically wanted a 1 year deal where he can get 500 plate appearances. Dodgers Rumors: Kiké Hernandez’s Reported Contract Demands Likely End His Time in LA - ( New Window )



You don't think the Dodgers would have offered him 1 year and 500 PA's if they felt he was worthy of that? How does that compute? If anything that should be cause for concern. The team that knows him best won't give him an expanded role for 1 year when their starting 3b is a FA and he's their starter at 2b as of now.


I live in dodger country and everyone loves the guy. I have no idea why they are letting him go or what's going on behind the scenes but my best guess would be the anticipation of Lux is the primary issue w/ playing time at 2b. He only just turned 23 and spent time in the big leagues each of the last couple years.
Lux  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:47 pm : link
hit .175 in 2020 and is expected to open in AAA. A 1 year deal to a multi-position player would seemingly be the IDEAL placeholder for a prospect who hasn't been good.
Angels  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 3:55 pm : link
in on Hand, per Robert Murray
Found a couple nuggets on the athletic from the LAD beat  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 4:02 pm : link
In his roster projections he has Chris Taylor as their starting 2b and predicted that Joc and Kike would leave because the LAD don't have the money/playing time to bring them back and they are replaceable in the way they turnover the roster.

Quote:
I think it’s more likely that Justin Turner returns than Kiké Hernández. It’s actually sort of simple: In Chris Taylor, the Dodgers already have someone who can do a lot of what Hernández can. They don’t have someone who can seamlessly replace Turner.


Quote:
Q: Joc and Kiké (presumably) leaving this offseason leaves the team’s bench in its weakest state since at least 2017. Assuming JT re-signs, or some other starting level RH bat comes in as Friedman stated is a priority, a five-man bench would comprise Barnes, Lux, Rios, Beaty and McKinstry. Knowing how much the organization values depth, do you think it is likely they will augment the bench with cheap FA or trades (like a David Freese type)? Or do they have enough faith in their current crop of prospects? — Joaquin T.

A: I’m not sure their bench was better than that in 2018, at least not until David Freese and Brian Dozier arrived in summer trades. Ríos, in particular, is an asset as a pinch-hitter, similar to Joc Pederson on days the Dodgers faced a left-hander. Matt Beaty manned the bench for much of 2019. The difference would really just be Zach McKinstry replacing Kiké Hernández. In 608 plate appearances over the last two seasons, Hernández logged an 86 OPS+, or 14 points below league average. Hernández is an excellent defender, no doubt, but I imagine the Dodgers expect McKinstry will approach that offensive line.

Also, I don’t think Lux will be a long-term member of the bench. Especially after his shortened 2020 season, the Dodgers will want him playing as much as possible. If that’s not at second base in the majors, it’ll be in Triple A. So, for that reason, I could see an acquisition taking that last bench spot. Or that acquisition could bump Taylor into that spot.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:03 pm : link
My question is this...if the claim is @Mets
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.
Whoops  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:08 pm : link
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
·
57s
Michael Brantley is returning to the #Astros on a two-year, $32 million contract, @MarkBermanFox26
is reporting.
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15129243 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
My question is this...if the claim is @Mets
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.


I never claimed anything either way about the LT, but being willing to exceed the LT and not be willing to overpay Springer could both be true.

RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:17 pm : link
In comment 15129253 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15129243 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


My question is this...if the claim is @Mets
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.



I never claimed anything either way about the LT, but being willing to exceed the LT and not be willing to overpay Springer could both be true.


PJ,
100% was not aimed at anybody in particular. But if the luxury tax isn't a consideration then what is an "overpay"? Why would Cohen personally care about spending a little more over 5 years? Why would Hand even be potentially headed somewhere else? Pretty clearly it's something they are taking into consideration. Do we really think they valued May over Hendriks for example? Cohen's personal wealth would suggest signing ALL of the top names and they haven't even pretended that's the plan or goal. I suspect they are willing to go over but will look to avoid it unless they have to. That's how this appears. I doubt they prefer Lucchesi over Quintana... but one is making 8, the other the minimum.
Completely  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:18 pm : link
forgot the Mets are still paying Bret Saberhagen lol.. he's 57!
I think the NYM thinking on salary structure right now is simpler than  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 4:20 pm : link
people realize and Sandy has plainly stated it - they aren't looking to overpay and they are in on a lot of players out there. They want flexibility and the best way to preserve flexibility is to not have any deals that can't be moved (like Cano). That may take them over the LTT or it may not.

They stuck to their guns on what they thought a good deal was for Springer.

They were aggressive on McCann as opposed to Realmuto because they saw value there and they weren't willing to wait and get into a bidding war.

Carrasco was obviously highly appealing because of the value of his deal.

They've said they prefer to stick to 1 year on Hand and might have claimed him even though the $10m was "perhaps a little high".

Lindor is someone they clearly think is worth a big deal.

After the Lindor trade Sandy said something like (paraphrasing) "we aren't done but we are unlikely to sign anyone who is in demand and gets a big deal". I think that's exactly what happened with Springer bc Toronto made a pretty big move up from the initial reports of their offers around $110-115m. I'd imagine that's what will happen with Bauer too.
They  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:20 pm : link
have to figure out what to do with Cano. Owed 40 million 2022-2023, it's a real issue.
Why  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:22 pm : link
would they care about "overpaying" when the owner is worth 15 billion? Why would anyone take a Lucchesi over a Quintana if money weren't a consideration? Why would anyone take May over Hendriks? Why wouldn't Hand be a complete lock to be a Met?
RE: They  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 4:23 pm : link
In comment 15129267 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have to figure out what to do with Cano. Owed 40 million 2022-2023, it's a real issue.


I'd bet on a bad contract swap or an outright buyout stretched over a bunch of years. Or just eating a ton of $ to ship him out, but I think that counts against the LTT so maybe not? I need to find a good explainer of LTT rules now that it's something we need to consider lol.
RE: RE: They  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15129273 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15129267 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have to figure out what to do with Cano. Owed 40 million 2022-2023, it's a real issue.



I'd bet on a bad contract swap or an outright buyout stretched over a bunch of years. Or just eating a ton of $ to ship him out, but I think that counts against the LTT so maybe not? I need to find a good explainer of LTT rules now that it's something we need to consider lol.


Any money they send out counts against the luxury tax. A buyout also counts against the luxury tax it can just be reduced with deferrals. There is no "clean" way out of Cano's contract barring another PED suspension.
Signing  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:26 pm : link
bonuses count against the tax, backloaded money doesn't help, option years can/do. Releasing Cano doesn't help either.
RE: Why  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15129271 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would they care about "overpaying" when the owner is worth 15 billion? Why would anyone take a Lucchesi over a Quintana if money weren't a consideration? Why would anyone take May over Hendriks? Why wouldn't Hand be a complete lock to be a Met?


1 word - flexibility. The issue isn't the money as much as the desire to maintain flexibility to move on from players if they aren't performing and the more money you guarantee the harder that is.

I believe a big part of the appeal with Lucchesi is that he has options and can possible swing the pen if necessary. He has flexibility.

If you give a player $8m to start, that's what he's doing. With Thor potentially coming back midseason I think it makes sense to try to have as much flexibility with whatever resources allocated to the starting rotation as possible. They have said from day 1 that they want to spend smart and the LTT is a consideration, Cohen said point blank they weren't going to spend like drunken sailors.
Thor  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:31 pm : link
coming back would give them 4 MLB caliber SP's. How would Quintana impact that? As of right now, he'd be the 4, he'd become the 5 with Syndergaard back.
A  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:34 pm : link
team with ZERO SP in AA/AAA would make perfect sense to add a Quintana AND a Lucchesi. Again their rotation as of today is DeGrom/Carrasco/Stroman and 2 of Matz/Peterson/Lucchesi. Are we really in a position to "not block" Thor?
RE: Thor  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15129285 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
coming back would give them 4 MLB caliber SP's. How would Quintana impact that? As of right now, he'd be the 4, he'd become the 5 with Syndergaard back.


Maybe they want to give Peterson and Matz each a chance in the rotation if they earn spots? Maybe they just think the $8m can go further to help elsewhere? The $8m could be a choice between Quintana and Hand. Or Quintana and Wong or Hernandez. Maybe they like another FA SP better than Quintana. Who knows?
RE: RE: Thor  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:37 pm : link
In comment 15129293 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15129285 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


coming back would give them 4 MLB caliber SP's. How would Quintana impact that? As of right now, he'd be the 4, he'd become the 5 with Syndergaard back.



Maybe they want to give Peterson and Matz each a chance in the rotation if they earn spots? Maybe they just think the $8m can go further to help elsewhere? The $8m could be a choice between Quintana and Hand. Or Quintana and Wong or Hernandez. Maybe they like another FA SP better than Quintana. Who knows?


Matz is guaranteed 800,000. If flexibility is the issue, then isn't that the epitome of it? Spending 800,000 for insurance? How much cheaper of an option can you get? And why are we suddenly choosing between Quintana and Hand if the lux tax isn't the issue? I thought you said overpaying was the issue? Which of Hand/Quintana is an overpay at 8 million? I'm not seeing one.
All  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:38 pm : link
due respect Eric, and I like a lot of what you post but "giving Peterson and Matz a chance to win a rotation spot" seems really ridiculous. One was arguably the worst SP in baseball last year and is guaranteed 800,000 the other showed flashes and is a rookie. What would the downside be? Peterson and Matz both looking great in ST and the Mets having an extra SP?
You  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 4:46 pm : link
really in your heart believe the Mets have not added a SP because they want to give both Peterson and Matz a chance to win 2 of the rotation spots and don't want to "block" Thor if they do?
RE: You  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 5:01 pm : link
In comment 15129304 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really in your heart believe the Mets have not added a SP because they want to give both Peterson and Matz a chance to win 2 of the rotation spots and don't want to "block" Thor if they do?


No, I think they are considering it as a possible outcome because it's a possible outcome. If they thought Matz was the worst SP in baseball they wouldn't have even bothered tendering him. And Peterson not only pitched decent last year despite being forced into action but was also a first round pick of this regime.

And they are obviously not opposed to adding SP to compete with those guys - they did exactly that trading for Luchessi. And they apparently inquired about Sony Gray. And they attended Kluber's showcase. They are clearly still looking.

I don't think there's any grand conspiracy behind why they didn't sign Quintana other than they didn't think it was the best use of $8m. Simple as that. They could be right or they could be wrong. I'll wait to hold judgement until we see what they do the rest of the offseason.
Happ  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:06 pm : link
to the Twins, 1 year deal.
RE: RE: You  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15129314 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15129304 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


really in your heart believe the Mets have not added a SP because they want to give both Peterson and Matz a chance to win 2 of the rotation spots and don't want to "block" Thor if they do?



No, I think they are considering it as a possible outcome because it's a possible outcome. If they thought Matz was the worst SP in baseball they wouldn't have even bothered tendering him. And Peterson not only pitched decent last year despite being forced into action but was also a first round pick of this regime.

And they are obviously not opposed to adding SP to compete with those guys - they did exactly that trading for Luchessi. And they apparently inquired about Sony Gray. And they attended Kluber's showcase. They are clearly still looking.

I don't think there's any grand conspiracy behind why they didn't sign Quintana other than they didn't think it was the best use of $8m. Simple as that. They could be right or they could be wrong. I'll wait to hold judgement until we see what they do the rest of the offseason.


They were considering both non-tendering and salary dumping Matz (to Toronto) given his guarantee (833,000) I very much disagree this means they believe in Matz. They almost certainly think it's worth the "risk".
RE: RE: RE: Thor  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 5:10 pm : link
In comment 15129295 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Matz is guaranteed 800,000. If flexibility is the issue, then isn't that the epitome of it? Spending 800,000 for insurance? How much cheaper of an option can you get? And why are we suddenly choosing between Quintana and Hand if the lux tax isn't the issue? I thought you said overpaying was the issue? Which of Hand/Quintana is an overpay at 8 million? I'm not seeing one.


Who said the luxury tax isn't an issue? Sandy Alderson on luxury tax threshold a couple weeks ago:

Quote:
"A significant demarcation. I wouldn’t say it’s a line that cannot be passed. But it’s definitely a significant consideration when you get to that level."


Both Sandy and Cohen have echo'd similar sentiments consistently since their intro press conference so not sure why there's surprise that they didn't sign 1 specific back end SP when they just traded for a different back end option 2 days ago.
this is just a wildass guess  
Dr. D : 1/20/2021 5:10 pm : link
but maybe it's not really the (LT) money that concerns Cohen.

Maybe, especially as a new owner, he doesn't want to be perceived (by other owners, the media, et al) as "buying a championship", like Steinbrenner was at one time.

He might not be comfortable, in his first season, being the only team owner (most likely) to surpass the LT threshold.
RE: RE: RE: You  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 5:11 pm : link
In comment 15129320 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


They were considering both non-tendering and salary dumping Matz (to Toronto) given his guarantee (833,000) I very much disagree this means they believe in Matz. They almost certainly think it's worth the "risk".


"Worth the risk" isn't the most ringing endorsement but it is an endorsement nonetheless.
Eric  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:13 pm : link
you didn't see MANY Mets fans suggesting they go absolutely wild in FA "because Cohen is the richest owner in baseball"? The idea from MANY (not a minority) was they were going to sign not one, but multiple expensive FA's, if not the full trifecta.
RE: RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 5:13 pm : link
In comment 15129264 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15129253 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 15129243 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


My question is this...if the claim is @Mets
don't care about the luxury tax. Then what do those people suggest the reason for not outbidding Toronto for Springer and potentially "losing" Hand? Not being snarky, genuinely curious. Sure seems to indicate the luxury tax is coming into play here.



I never claimed anything either way about the LT, but being willing to exceed the LT and not be willing to overpay Springer could both be true.




PJ,
100% was not aimed at anybody in particular. But if the luxury tax isn't a consideration then what is an "overpay"? Why would Cohen personally care about spending a little more over 5 years? Why would Hand even be potentially headed somewhere else? Pretty clearly it's something they are taking into consideration. Do we really think they valued May over Hendriks for example? Cohen's personal wealth would suggest signing ALL of the top names and they haven't even pretended that's the plan or goal. I suspect they are willing to go over but will look to avoid it unless they have to. That's how this appears. I doubt they prefer Lucchesi over Quintana... but one is making 8, the other the minimum.


I don't think that being willing to surpass the luxury tax if and when it makes sense means they don't have line in the sand values they place on players in terms of max $$ per ACV or max TCV.

I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
If  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:17 pm : link
Brad Hand goes to Toronto for (an example) 2 years 16 million, and the Mets place the "value" of him at 2 years 14 million. What's the point of the valuation? For Cohen to personally spend 2 million less? Why wouldn't the Mets be the favorites for every single "smaller" FA target (where the salary differences are minimal)?
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:21 pm : link
Jim Bowden
@JimBowdenGM
The #BlueJays can now focus attention on @BauerOutage
Brad Hand & perhaps even Marcel Ozuna who would fit nicely at DH and AAV not expected to be much more than Brantley was going to get. Not sure if Brantley deal fell apart over medicals or a Dwight Howard type miscommunication
Happ  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:21 pm : link
1 year 8
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:22 pm : link
Interesting Kluber was scooped up immediately (with a bidding war) and all quiet on the Paxton front. Was he unimpressive at his workout despite touching 94? #Mets
RE: .  
debo_GIANTS : 1/20/2021 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15129339 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Interesting Kluber was scooped up immediately (with a bidding war) and all quiet on the Paxton front. Was he unimpressive at his workout despite touching 94? #Mets


Paxton might be asking too much, I read he was looking for more than what Kluber got
RE: If  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15129330 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Brad Hand goes to Toronto for (an example) 2 years 16 million, and the Mets place the "value" of him at 2 years 14 million. What's the point of the valuation? For Cohen to personally spend 2 million less? Why wouldn't the Mets be the favorites for every single "smaller" FA target (where the salary differences are minimal)?


I don't think being willing to exceed the luxury tax for the right opportunity means the Mets are willing or planning to outbid the rest of baseball on every free agent in which they have interest.

I think they set limits and if a case can be made to exceed those limits they will. I don't think these decisions (2 years 14M vs 2 years 16M in your example for Hand) are made in a vacuum, they're part of a broader plan, and until we hear the Mets lost out on a player they considered must have you are dabbling in conjecture.
Mets couldn’t sign Springer without DH being resolved  
Vanzetti : 1/20/2021 5:27 pm : link
No DH means Dom goes to the bench and you spent 120 million and actually made the lineup worse
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:28 pm : link
MLBTR top remaining SP's (in order) Bauer, Tanaka, Paxton, Walker, Richards, Wainwright, Porcello, Hamels, Archer
RE: Eric  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 5:29 pm : link
In comment 15129326 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
you didn't see MANY Mets fans suggesting they go absolutely wild in FA "because Cohen is the richest owner in baseball"? The idea from MANY (not a minority) was they were going to sign not one, but multiple expensive FA's, if not the full trifecta.


Sure but I also saw fans killing Cohen that they weren't doing anything the day before he traded for Lindor. So I don't put a ton of stock in what most fans suggest (this board notwithstanding because I think the NYM group here is as knowledgeable as any fan conversation gets).
RE: RE: If  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:29 pm : link
In comment 15129342 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15129330 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Brad Hand goes to Toronto for (an example) 2 years 16 million, and the Mets place the "value" of him at 2 years 14 million. What's the point of the valuation? For Cohen to personally spend 2 million less? Why wouldn't the Mets be the favorites for every single "smaller" FA target (where the salary differences are minimal)?



I don't think being willing to exceed the luxury tax for the right opportunity means the Mets are willing or planning to outbid the rest of baseball on every free agent in which they have interest.

I think they set limits and if a case can be made to exceed those limits they will. I don't think these decisions (2 years 14M vs 2 years 16M in your example for Hand) are made in a vacuum, they're part of a broader plan, and until we hear the Mets lost out on a player they considered must have you are dabbling in conjecture.


"For the right opportunity" is my point. They ARE trying to stay under if they can.
Law's  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:31 pm : link
@keithlaw's top remaining FA SP (in order) Bauer, Paxton, Tanaka, Walker, Odorizzi, Archer
Sandy does not believe in mega deals for FA pitchers  
Vanzetti : 1/20/2021 5:32 pm : link
Research shows they are a bad investment.

So I would not expect him to pursue Bauer. Losing Porter means no alternative voice.
Shecky  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 5:33 pm : link
"warned" us in November people expecting a free agent free for all would be disappointed.

I don't think most people expected one.

I for one (won't speak for others) prefer a methodical, deliberate, plan.

have a goal for

a) improving the major league team (my preference is focus on defense and pitching)

b) improve the farm

c) improve the behind the scenes areas - analytics, scouting, minor league philosophy, development, etc.

d) improve the fan experience (make Citi more "Mets", fanfest, old timers day, etc.)

none of it involved going hog wild in free agency

RE: If  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 5:34 pm : link
In comment 15129330 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Brad Hand goes to Toronto for (an example) 2 years 16 million, and the Mets place the "value" of him at 2 years 14 million. What's the point of the valuation? For Cohen to personally spend 2 million less? Why wouldn't the Mets be the favorites for every single "smaller" FA target (where the salary differences are minimal)?


Sandy said they would have probably claimed Hand even though it was at a slightly higher number than true value. Each player is a case by case judgement call so all I can infer from Quintana, or Happ, or whatever other players sign with other organizations is that they made the judgement to put their priorities elsewhere.

When we see what they do with their money we can certainly debate what the best use was. For example I still think there's possibly a case to be made that if it were an option, they should have only traded for Carrasco, kept Gimenez, and then been more aggressive to sign Springer for $150m vs. paying Lindor $300m. But I'd suggest that knowing it may not have been an option. They said Cleveland wanted to couple Lindor and Carrasco together and they may not have been willing to deal them separately. They may have just taken the next best offer for both from someone else.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:35 pm : link
And finally @fangraphs top remaining SP (in order) Bauer, Tanaka, Paxton, Walker, Odorizzi, Richards, Porcello, Shoemaker, Wainwright, Archer
Porter  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:37 pm : link
unfortunately was a substantial loss. He had connections all over the league, he was hyper obsessed with unearthing undervalued talent etc. He absolutely had to go but in the short term... it's a loss.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:38 pm : link
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
23m
Robinson Canó intends to join Águilas for their upcoming Caribbean Series berth. Canó previously played eight games for Estrellas in the Dominican Winter League, batting .353 with three home runs.

Águilas will play against the champions from P.R., VZ, Mexico, Colombia & Panama.
RE: Shecky  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 5:38 pm : link
In comment 15129352 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
"warned" us in November people expecting a free agent free for all would be disappointed.

I don't think most people expected one.

I for one (won't speak for others) prefer a methodical, deliberate, plan.

have a goal for

a) improving the major league team (my preference is focus on defense and pitching)

b) improve the farm

c) improve the behind the scenes areas - analytics, scouting, minor league philosophy, development, etc.

d) improve the fan experience (make Citi more "Mets", fanfest, old timers day, etc.)

none of it involved going hog wild in free agency


Sandy was always exceedingly patient and prudent so Shecky's warning seemed very likely.

I would actually say that Lindor + Carrasco + McCann + May + a SP via trade has already exceeded what I expected. Had you asked me to predict then I think I would have said 1 of the big 3 plus a few other mid or low level signings. Lindor is probably a level above the big 3 and Carrasco is pretty close to the level or above when factoring in how good his contract is, so I think they already added 2 top players plus a few solid mid level moves.
Phillies  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:42 pm : link
have offered Realmuto 5 years 110ish million.
RE: Phillies  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 5:47 pm : link
In comment 15129362 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have offered Realmuto 5 years 110ish million.


I know he refused to sign early, but if he ends up settling for something like that I'd be disappointed they went out hot for McCann. I like everything we've heard about McCann and think his deal is completely fair but Realmuto is probably still a tier above even in a best case. to the point above in the scenario I posted above, that would have been a nice use of the $150m saved on Springer as opposed to Lindor.
geez...  
Italianju : 1/20/2021 5:55 pm : link
what happened to Chris Archer. Completely forgot about that guy.

RE: geez...  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:56 pm : link
In comment 15129369 Italianju said:
Quote:
what happened to Chris Archer. Completely forgot about that guy.


TOS. Almost always a career ender. Did in Harvey, the success rate coming back is near zero. Chris Young is one of the success stories...
More  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 5:56 pm : link
on TOS
Link - ( New Window )
Thanks Dan...  
Italianju : 1/20/2021 6:05 pm : link
didnt realize he had the same situation as Harvey. What a shame.
RE: Thanks Dan...  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 6:14 pm : link
In comment 15129378 Italianju said:
Quote:
didnt realize he had the same situation as Harvey. What a shame.


There may be an injury worse but TOS is up there. I’m sure with time there will be advancements but I remember going down the rabbit hole when Harvey had it.. it’s a really sad list of guys who were good and then never made it back
RE: RE: Thanks Dan...  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15129383 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15129378 Italianju said:


Quote:


didnt realize he had the same situation as Harvey. What a shame.



There may be an injury worse but TOS is up there. I’m sure with time there will be advancements but I remember going down the rabbit hole when Harvey had it.. it’s a really sad list of guys who were good and then never made it back


I have a friend who got it and his arm blew up about twice it's normal size. He had to have emergency surgery and it happened while he was traveling which made it even more of a nightmare.
RE: RE: Shecky  
moze1021 : 1/20/2021 6:45 pm : link
In comment 15129359 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15129352 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


"warned" us in November people expecting a free agent free for all would be disappointed.

I don't think most people expected one.

I for one (won't speak for others) prefer a methodical, deliberate, plan.

have a goal for

a) improving the major league team (my preference is focus on defense and pitching)

b) improve the farm

c) improve the behind the scenes areas - analytics, scouting, minor league philosophy, development, etc.

d) improve the fan experience (make Citi more "Mets", fanfest, old timers day, etc.)

none of it involved going hog wild in free agency




Sandy was always exceedingly patient and prudent so Shecky's warning seemed very likely.

I would actually say that Lindor + Carrasco + McCann + May + a SP via trade has already exceeded what I expected. Had you asked me to predict then I think I would have said 1 of the big 3 plus a few other mid or low level signings. Lindor is probably a level above the big 3 and Carrasco is pretty close to the level or above when factoring in how good his contract is, so I think they already added 2 top players plus a few solid mid level moves.


Yeah folks really just got emotionally attached to the idea of Springer or Bauer in a Mets uniform and for some reason aren't recognizing the Lindor is a bigger get...

My feeling has always been: this is offseason #1! Just because we have some money doesn't mean we need to sign the best free agents available THIS offseason. There will be more and there will be better... the awesome thing is that the Mets are $25M under the luxury tax and were still in the running for Springer!!

RE: RE: RE: Thanks Dan...  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 6:49 pm : link
In comment 15129384 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15129383 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 15129378 Italianju said:


Quote:


didnt realize he had the same situation as Harvey. What a shame.



There may be an injury worse but TOS is up there. I’m sure with time there will be advancements but I remember going down the rabbit hole when Harvey had it.. it’s a really sad list of guys who were good and then never made it back



I have a friend who got it and his arm blew up about twice it's normal size. He had to have emergency surgery and it happened while he was traveling which made it even more of a nightmare.


It’s not good (as I’m sure you know far better than I do). As with anything else I’m sure there will be advances but I’d bet against Archer making it back. Not trying to be cruel but it’s yet to happen so...
This is a great point Moze  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15129395 moze1021 said:
Quote:
Yeah folks really just got emotionally attached to the idea of Springer or Bauer in a Mets uniform and for some reason aren't recognizing the Lindor is a bigger get...

My feeling has always been: this is offseason #1! Just because we have some money doesn't mean we need to sign the best free agents available THIS offseason. There will be more and there will be better... the awesome thing is that the Mets are $25M under the luxury tax and were still in the running for Springer!!


They added arguably the best player who will switch teams this offseason and the second best pitcher. And they were still willing to offer 9 figures to the 2nd best position player on the market. That would have been like going after Nomar or Adrian Beltre even after signing Beltran and Pedro. Also sort of proves out that while they say they view the LTT as an important threshold, they are still willing to approach it or surpass in the right circumstance.
Sherman  
DanMetroMan : 1/20/2021 8:13 pm : link
Said the Mets Max offer for springer was 6 for 120 and noted Sandy isn’t a huge fan of texts etc so the Mets are going to likely need a GM who is “into” the modern part of the game and communication (minus dick pics)
RE: this is just a wildass guess  
KDavies : 1/20/2021 10:31 pm : link
In comment 15129322 Dr. D said:
Quote:
but maybe it's not really the (LT) money that concerns Cohen.

Maybe, especially as a new owner, he doesn't want to be perceived (by other owners, the media, et al) as "buying a championship", like Steinbrenner was at one time.

He might not be comfortable, in his first season, being the only team owner (most likely) to surpass the LT threshold.


I agree with this. This has been my theory all along on Cohen not wanting to blow past the luxury tax right away.
Why do you think Cohen  
pjcas18 : 1/20/2021 10:53 pm : link
wouldn't want to exceed the luxury tax right away?

When the Dodgers were sold to their current ownership group they exceeded the luxury tax in their first year.

Based on what I know about Cohen (which is admittedly from Bobby Axelrod in Billions) I doubt he gives a shit what other owners think. Plus the tax goes to many of them, so IMO they'd love to see him overpay for players like Bauer and Springer and be "stuck" with them and not able to improve the team without exceeding the luxury tax. Other owners HAVE to love when a team exceeds the tax and loses.

My opinion is he's being more measured and not just buying players because he can afford it. He wants to build for the long term and isn't impetuous like fans.

I don't think Cohen cares about appearances if it leads to success  
Eric on Li : 1/20/2021 10:56 pm : link
I think the greater fear is that teams who go crazy to win the offseason don't always win in regular season and postseason.

LAD won a WS after trading for Betts so obviously I'm not saying they should pack up and head to PSL without making any other moves or send back Lindor, just that building a winning organization is hard to do overnight. The pieces that get added have to get added carefully even if it's "just money". There is always an opportunity cost. The pieces need to fit together and there has to be a connective philosophy that produces more than the sum of the parts.
pj and Eric on Li  
Dr. D : 1/21/2021 9:22 am : link
you could be right. We've seen too many times in different sports where the offseason champs fail when the season starts (I wonder if there's a subconscious over-confidence among the players on some of the super teams that have been put together. I also think offseason champs often acquire big names that are past their primes and sometimes the big names are square pegs crammed into round holes on their new team).

We agree that maybe it's not the actual tax $ that Cohen is afraid of. The concern is spending unwisely for the long term.

Maybe if Springer was 27-28 instead of pushing 32, they would've spent whatever it took.
Braves  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 10:03 am : link
In on Realmuto. That would... suck
All  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 10:11 am : link
Due respect (and it’s fine they passed on Springer) but he won’t be 32 until September. Kind of unfair to say “pushing 32” when that’s 8 months from now aka a “full” season of being 31
RE: Phillies  
TyreeHelmet : 1/21/2021 10:21 am : link
In comment 15129362 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have offered Realmuto 5 years 110ish million.


If he signs for anywhere close to this deal then the Mets are going to regret not being more aggressive in their pursuit of Realmuto.

4/40 for McCann vs 5/110 for Realmuto is really a no brainer given the difference in player. And it will really hurt to see him with the Braves.

I also don't believe the fear of being the only owner over the luxury tax played into Cohen's decision making at all.
yeah if Realmuto goes that affordably I'd be disappointed  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 10:24 am : link
I don't know if there's anything they could have done differently, they were aggressive with Springer prior to the Lindor deal and it didn't matter. They tried to engage Realmuto early and he said he was waiting.

I like McCann and understand their aggression required a willing partner but would still be disappointed. Especially if ends up in the division.
informative update from Martino on pretty much everything  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 10:28 am : link
Also the answer to the above questions about their approach to spending:

Quote:
Yes, Steve Cohen has nearly unlimited resources. But neither he nor Sandy Alderson wants to commit so many of those resources, not to mention roster spots, and limit flexibility for so many years.


Also interestingly both Cain and Hernandez are mentioned as possibilities they are exploring for CF. I want Hernandez but not necessarily as a CF, so I'm hoping there's a way they can get them both.

The agent switch with Hand doesn't seem to bode well but who knows.
Mets chose the possibility of Michael Conforto tomorrow over George Springer today Also updates on Jackie Bradley Jr., Brad Hand, and more - ( New Window )
Martino  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 10:29 am : link
claims the Mets chose Conforto over Springer (basically) once they signed Lindor.

They love Conforto and want to extend him and they want to extend Lindor and didn't think they can do both with Springer.

Also, says they have multiple options being kicked around for CF and expects that decision is not yet made.

I'm paraphrasing from the article.

Link below.
link - ( New Window )
I'm not sure I buy not being able to afford both as much as  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 10:34 am : link
they were worried about 2 guys who would be expensive into their mid-30's (1 having to man a premium defensive spot).

Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.
RE: All  
Dr. D : 1/21/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15129659 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Due respect (and it’s fine they passed on Springer) but he won’t be 32 until September. Kind of unfair to say “pushing 32” when that’s 8 months from now aka a “full” season of being 31

You're right. I should've said if he was 27-28 instead of 31..
RE: I'm not sure I buy not being able to afford both as much as  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 10:37 am : link
In comment 15129686 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
they were worried about 2 guys who would be expensive into their mid-30's (1 having to man a premium defensive spot).

Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.


I prefer the way Martino phrased it - it's not about not being able to afford both, but signing both (Conforto and Springer) provides limited flexibility.

What would be a disaster is if neither Conforto or Lindor are extended with the Mets and they lost out on Springer because of those two.
RE: RE: I'm not sure I buy not being able to afford both as much as  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15129693 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15129686 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


they were worried about 2 guys who would be expensive into their mid-30's (1 having to man a premium defensive spot).

Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.



I prefer the way Martino phrased it - it's not about not being able to afford both, but signing both (Conforto and Springer) provides limited flexibility.

What would be a disaster is if neither Conforto or Lindor are extended with the Mets and they lost out on Springer because of those two.


I'm not really worried about losing guys we want now. They will be willing to pay the cost. I'd imagine it's probably how a Maple Leafs fan feels about their stars. If they want them they aren't going anywhere.

But totally agree that they are prioritizing flexibility. And I think that's 100% the correct way to do things.
RE: Braves  
Shecky : 1/21/2021 10:43 am : link
In comment 15129646 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In on Realmuto. That would... suck

This is just a guess, but my guess is there isn't any fire there, maybe not even smoke. I don't see Realmuto having much interest in Atlanta.
RE: RE: Braves  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15129703 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 15129646 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In on Realmuto. That would... suck


This is just a guess, but my guess is there isn't any fire there, maybe not even smoke. I don't see Realmuto having much interest in Atlanta.


Should we order our Kike jerseys yet or no?
RE: RE: RE: I'm not sure I buy not being able to afford both as much as  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 10:51 am : link
In comment 15129696 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15129693 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 15129686 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


they were worried about 2 guys who would be expensive into their mid-30's (1 having to man a premium defensive spot).

Put another way if both were 26 I think they'd have no issue with it. Similarly I'd imagine Lindor being 27 was a big part of his ascent to the top of their priority list. The way things have gone in all sports I can't say I blame them for prioritizing youth.



I prefer the way Martino phrased it - it's not about not being able to afford both, but signing both (Conforto and Springer) provides limited flexibility.

What would be a disaster is if neither Conforto or Lindor are extended with the Mets and they lost out on Springer because of those two.



I'm not really worried about losing guys we want now. They will be willing to pay the cost. I'd imagine it's probably how a Maple Leafs fan feels about their stars. If they want them they aren't going anywhere.

But totally agree that they are prioritizing flexibility. And I think that's 100% the correct way to do things.


I'm not worrying about it, simply stating a fact, that giving up Gimenez, Rosario and Wolff for a Lindor rental and missing out on Springer in anticipation of extending Lindor and Conforto will be a disaster if those extensions don't happen.

And Boras is so savvy he knows this. Good thing is Sandy is pretty savvy too.

Should be interest to see how it plays out.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:20 am : link
a big Castro fan but 2 years 7 guaranteed is a steal for Houston
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:27 am : link
Per @martinonyc Keeping Conforto was a major part of the Springer pursuit equation (good), they have (so far) been unwilling to go more than 1 year to Hand and JBJ is asking for a LARGE number (PASS)
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:31 am : link
wasn't keen on JBJ to begin with but if he's looking for a huge deal I wouldn't even consider him. Considering how quiet his market has been, I believe Martino.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:32 am : link
think the Mets may pivot to upgrading 3b vs. CF.
RE: I  
KDavies : 1/21/2021 11:39 am : link
In comment 15129794 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think the Mets may pivot to upgrading 3b vs. CF.


Don't really want them trading for Suarez due to prospect cost. Aren't going to trade for Arenado's contract.

Free agents are pretty thin. Perhaps a Semien could play there or a LaStella. Is there anyone I am missing?

RE: RE: I  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 11:47 am : link
In comment 15129804 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15129794 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


think the Mets may pivot to upgrading 3b vs. CF.



Don't really want them trading for Suarez due to prospect cost. Aren't going to trade for Arenado's contract.

Free agents are pretty thin. Perhaps a Semien could play there or a LaStella. Is there anyone I am missing?


Bryant?
Semien  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:49 am : link
Turner, LaStella as FA's would all be upgrades, Bryant, Arenado, Suarez as potential trade targets. FAR better options than CF.
Deeper  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:50 am : link
you have guys like Eduardo Escobar
Have  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:52 am : link
to believe the Mets are concerned with Hand's red flags as holding firm at 1 year would imply that given Brach/Familia/Betances (while not good) are all FA after the season.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 11:53 am : link
not even clear why people believed JBJ would only get 2 years 16-20? He's the same age as Springer. He's obviously nowhere near as good but he's a 12+ million guy and 3-4 years is a pretty fair ask (I wouldn't want him anywhere near that).
Kris Bryant - How is he as a defensive player?  
NYG27 : 1/21/2021 11:55 am : link
Bryant is only 29, love his hitting. Although I haven't seen enough Cubs games to get a good gauge on his defensive skills at third base.

Anyone who has seen him play a lot as a defender, any feedback? Is he a plus glove or just league average?
what would Bryant cost prospect wise?  
KDavies : 1/21/2021 11:57 am : link
he's got a nearly $20 million contract, and is coming of an injury plagued season where he barely beat the Mendoza line. JD Davis and a lower prospect or so, fine. But not trading a top 6-7 prospect for him.
Remember  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:03 pm : link
this with Bryant, if he has even a decent year, you offer him the QO and he likely walks and you get a high pick, that has to be part of any reluctance in giving up a "decent" prospect.
RE: Kris Bryant - How is he as a defensive player?  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15129835 NYG27 said:
Quote:
Bryant is only 29, love his hitting. Although I haven't seen enough Cubs games to get a good gauge on his defensive skills at third base.

Anyone who has seen him play a lot as a defender, any feedback? Is he a plus glove or just league average?


Average to slightly below at 3b. Big guy so that comes with some issues.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:06 pm : link
give up Ginn for Bryant. If Bryant is somehow a complete disaster then you gave up a solid prospect not in the top 100 in baseball. If he's good you will get back a pick (or keep him long term). I'd also have no qualms giving Turner 2 years with a 3rd year option/buyout (3rd year only because he has 2 on the table from LAD).
RE: Have  
Shecky : 1/21/2021 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15129829 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
to believe the Mets are concerned with Hand's red flags as holding firm at 1 year would imply that given Brach/Familia/Betances (while not good) are all FA after the season.

Not the only team...

Re: Bryant. Worth a flyer, absolutely. Buttttt Analytics are convinced he's done, though I'm not convinced he can't make the adjustments. Secondly, pick him up and youre closer to the Tax. It isn't the financial penalty, but lets say you go over and your strategy is to recoup picks if/when Bryant, Thor etc leave? Well, your picks, pool $ and IFA $$ are all SHOT. That's a major concern about going over. Go over for a final piece, no prob though...
Shecky  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:26 pm : link
there is no pick penalty for going over the tax, and the pick penalty is minimal even for a repeat offender.
Shecky  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:27 pm : link
there is no pick penalty for going over the tax, and the pick penalty is minimal even for a repeat offender.
Repeat  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:29 pm : link
offender has their first pick... drop 10 slots. That's a very, very minimal issue, not one that would stop any team from doing so.
Martino  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:33 pm : link
continues to push the idea that the Mets view Lindor as a rental and will see what happens in terms of an extension.
Suarez is an absolute steal  
ZGiants98 : 1/21/2021 12:36 pm : link
At the money he’s making on his contract. It’s almost criminal. There’s no shortage of prospects I’d be willing to part with to bring him in.
I'll  
Shecky : 1/21/2021 12:41 pm : link
stick to my points ;)
He's  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:41 pm : link
routinely been a 4 win player. If the shoulder is okay (.203 BABIP) and still was on a 3+ win pace, then he'd be a major upgrade. ZIPS has him +2.2 wins better than JDD.
RE: I'll  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15129902 Shecky said:
Quote:
stick to my points ;)


You think a 10 slot drop for a repeat offender is substantial? I guess agree to disagree. Picking 34nd vs. 24th is a minimal penalty.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:46 pm : link
Doug
12:07 How much should we read in to Brand Hand’s velo dip? Still was great last year of course.
AvatarDan Szymborski
12:08 It's a concern, especially as it was the second year in a row. What's a REALLY big concern is the fact that you pair that with the fact that he very suddenly lost a quarter of his swinging strikes in one fell swoop
Can anyone think of any examples of a player  
Dr. D : 1/21/2021 12:51 pm : link
(like JDD) significantly improving their defense in the majors?
Yeah...  
ZGiants98 : 1/21/2021 12:52 pm : link
A Suarez/Gray deal (if there’s any merit to it) would rival the Cookie/Lindor deal imo and instantly make us WS contenders.
RE: Can anyone think of any examples of a player  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15129915 Dr. D said:
Quote:
(like JDD) significantly improving their defense in the majors?


It's unusual, more so given his age (28 in April) and the fact he's been playing 3b his entire pro career and physical limitations. But if you want an example Arenado went from an iffy minor league defensive player to one of the best ever to do it.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 12:55 pm : link
Dan Szymborski
12:21 I don't think *huge* but they'd have roles
I'd much prefer McNeil/Lindor/Wong left to right over Davis/Lindor/McNeil
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 1:10 pm : link

Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
2m
Baseball America's Top 100 prospects list ranked:

-Francisco Alvarez No. 48
-Ronny Mauricio No. 65
-Matthew Allan No. 98

Baseball Prospectus ranked:

-Mauricio No. 42
-Allan No. 79
-Alvarez No. 84
RE: RE: Can anyone think of any examples of a player  
Dr. D : 1/21/2021 1:12 pm : link
In comment 15129921 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15129915 Dr. D said:


Quote:


(like JDD) significantly improving their defense in the majors?



It's unusual, more so given his age (28 in April) and the fact he's been playing 3b his entire pro career and physical limitations. But if you want an example Arenado went from an iffy minor league defensive player to one of the best ever to do it.

Thanks Dan. Doesn't look good long term for JDD at 3rd
Lol  
Shecky : 1/21/2021 2:23 pm : link
You’re much smarter than that Dan, I know you are. You know it isn’t a ten slot slide... I’ll just leave it at that.
Dr. D how about Michael Conforto? He went from a DH/LF only to a CF  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 2:27 pm : link
and a plus corner OF'er. I'm not optimistic about JDD defensively at 3b, I'm actually more optimistic about him being able to become a passable LF, but he's a good athlete and a hard worker so it's worth the attempt.
RE: Lol  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15130023 Shecky said:
Quote:
You’re much smarter than that Dan, I know you are. You know it isn’t a ten slot slide... I’ll just leave it at that.


Shecky,
I'm honestly confused. A repeat offender has their first pick dropped 10 slots. I assume you're referencing something else?


"For the most part, the penalties for exceeding the CBT are fine-based. A first-time exceeder has to pay a 20 percent fine on its overage; a two-time exceeder has to pay a 30 percent fine; beyond that it's a 50 percent fine. There are also surtaxes for exceeding by $20 million (12 percent); $40 million (42.5 percent); and repeating over $40 million (45 percent).

A team that goes more than $40 million over also has its highest draft pick moved down 10 spots provided it isn't picking in the top six. In those cases, which would seem to be rare, the team's second selection would be dropped 10 spots."
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 2:29 pm : link
In comment 15129922 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Dan Szymborski
12:21 I don't think *huge* but they'd have roles
I'd much prefer McNeil/Lindor/Wong left to right over Davis/Lindor/McNeil


I completely agree that upgrading 2b is the easier way to improve overall IF defense. But it depends on what they think of McNeil at 3b. He was good 1 year and bad 1 year in limited action. If he's comfortable there I'd do it though.

Also why I think signing Kike is a better hedge because if McNeil struggles at 3b you can get Kike ABs somewhere else whereas Wong is likely a 2b only.
RE: Dr. D how about Michael Conforto? He went from a DH/LF only to a CF  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15130029 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and a plus corner OF'er. I'm not optimistic about JDD defensively at 3b, I'm actually more optimistic about him being able to become a passable LF, but he's a good athlete and a hard worker so it's worth the attempt.


Conforto has been average or better since day one by OAA, so while pre-MLB scouting reports may have been down on him, he has been "good" since day one. JDD was viewed as a DH type even coming out of college, and has stunk defensively since day one. This is from his draft report

"Defense: 45/45

Davis is getting drafted on the basis of his bat, so don't expect much from him with the glove; lack of athleticism doesn't give him much lateral quickness; displays poor reaction times; can make all the routine plays and just has to catch the ball as a first baseman. "

I'd suggest the 28 year olds who suddenly were passable defensively at a legit defensive position ie not 1b is a very, very small list.
RE: RE: Lol  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15130031 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15130023 Shecky said:


Quote:


You’re much smarter than that Dan, I know you are. You know it isn’t a ten slot slide... I’ll just leave it at that.



Shecky,
I'm honestly confused. A repeat offender has their first pick dropped 10 slots. I assume you're referencing something else?


"For the most part, the penalties for exceeding the CBT are fine-based. A first-time exceeder has to pay a 20 percent fine on its overage; a two-time exceeder has to pay a 30 percent fine; beyond that it's a 50 percent fine. There are also surtaxes for exceeding by $20 million (12 percent); $40 million (42.5 percent); and repeating over $40 million (45 percent).

A team that goes more than $40 million over also has its highest draft pick moved down 10 spots provided it isn't picking in the top six. In those cases, which would seem to be rare, the team's second selection would be dropped 10 spots."


Draft compensation pool reduction from sliding back? If I'm reading this list right a 10 pick drop would have cost us almost $3m in pool money this year had it been incurred.
Here are the 2020 Draft pools and bonus values - ( New Window )
wait misread just highest draft pick would be more like $1m  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 2:34 pm : link
lost in slot $. Still meaningful.
RE: wait misread just highest draft pick would be more like $1m  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15130042 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
lost in slot $. Still meaningful.


It's not meaningful enough to have it stop you from being concerned about being a repeat offender at the big league level.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:37 pm : link
didn't see people worried about losing a pick for Springer or Bauer or Realmuto... all would have cost a pick and pool $. In fact, I don't recall a single person on her suggesting to avoid them because of this.
Had  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:38 pm : link
the Mets signed Springer they would have given up their #2 pick (and that pool money), aka more than 1 million in draft pool money.
2020 Mets 2nd round draft pool slot  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:39 pm : link
"52) Mets: $1,403,200" aka almost half a millioN MORE lost (and the pick lost)

So yeah, it's a very minimal penalty all things considered.
Based  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:41 pm : link
on the 2020 draft pool numbers the Mets dropping from 24-34 would have lost...less than 700,000 in pool money. 2.8 to 2.14
The first round pick is generally the easiest place to save the money  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 2:45 pm : link
to go over elsewhere just because there's the most to save - I believe that's how they got themselves Allan by saving money on Baty.

Either way I don't think going over is a big deal and whatever his concerns Shecky said he'd go over for a final piece type of move. I think they viewed Springer that way and I think that's why everyone was obviously in favor of that. For a back end starter or depth pickup though I can see why the difference in who can be picked up cheaper (like Luchessi was) may not be worth the extra $ and draft capital out the door.
I think of it this way  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 2:45 pm : link
the goal for MLB teams is to win at the MLB level.

Obviously you want a good farm system (it's critical to helping you win at the major league level), you want good analytics, good operations, good development, etc.

but the goal, why we are all here, is to win at the major league level.

If as a team you exceed the luxury tax threshold it should be a strategic decision, made because you feel like exceeding that LT enables you to get over the hump and win - AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL.

Yes, there is a cost, but IMO that cost is well worth it.

You rarely see a team with major league success and a top tier minor league team. It happens, but it's rare.

so I see the cycle going - do what you can to improve the major league club, do it in a manner that protects the farm to the extent possible (even try and improve the farm too) but when you've built a contender (like the Mets) you can make that cobra strike and do what is necessary to put your team over the top. If that's sign a player LT, trade prospects, and/or exceed the LT - you do it and you are happy to do it.

The Wipons were never willing to go to that next level, but still came up just short in a WS - the difference is they build band-aid teams not sustained for the long haul.

And that's what I'm looking for now.
PJ  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:48 pm : link
I mostly agree with you... except the farm system/MLB success stuff. The Rays and Dodgers are loaded (and were the WS teams) and the Padres were one of the best teams in baseball in 2020, and then used their completely loaded farm to improve upon that. The Braves have had one of the better farms (thus their recent success), The Twins/Indians were top farm systems and the Twins should again be a playoff team this year, the Indians are now rebuilding, Houston has routinely been loaded at the MLB and minor league levels as well. I think the rob peter to pay paul stuff is a thing of the past. You can build a farm and an MLB team at the same time.
From mid-season  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:50 pm : link
Rays #1, Padres #3, White Sox #6, Jays #7... all four of those teams are viewed as 2021 contenders, Dodgers #11, Twins 12.
RE: The first round pick is generally the easiest place to save the money  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:53 pm : link
In comment 15130051 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
to go over elsewhere just because there's the most to save - I believe that's how they got themselves Allan by saving money on Baty.

Either way I don't think going over is a big deal and whatever his concerns Shecky said he'd go over for a final piece type of move. I think they viewed Springer that way and I think that's why everyone was obviously in favor of that. For a back end starter or depth pickup though I can see why the difference in who can be picked up cheaper (like Luchessi was) may not be worth the extra $ and draft capital out the door.


The point is 700,000 in draft pool money loss would be extremely low on the totem pole of issues in deciding to be a repeat lux tax offender. They would have lost about 1.5 million AND a pick for signing any FA tied to a QO and we know they were IN on Springer and were "in" on Realmuto (he wasn't looking to sign quickly) that tells us this penalty if of little concern vs. others.
MLB network continuing their  
ZGiants98 : 1/21/2021 2:53 pm : link
Top 10 at every position with Alonso ranking today.

By my math and their lists, Mets should have a top 10 player at every position except 3B.

Doesn’t mean anything but kinda cool.
RE: MLB network continuing their  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:55 pm : link
In comment 15130067 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Top 10 at every position with Alonso ranking today.

By my math and their lists, Mets should have a top 10 player at every position except 3B.

Doesn’t mean anything but kinda cool.


Yes and no, they have Nimmo in CF so assuming he's not, they also won't have a top 10 CF (or are unlikely to).
Not  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 2:58 pm : link
that I believe everything Martino says but not sure why people thought 2 for 16 was realistic for JBJ? He's flawed but one of the top defensive CF in the sport. Why would he be signing for less than half of James McCann or the same money as Trevor May? 2 years? Never made sense. Not surprised that number apparently is extremely low vs. his ask.
Reds  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 3:00 pm : link
in on Simmons, would suggest this "sell-off" has been overstated. I always felt it was. Their pen is loaded. 11 million they were spending on Iglesias likely could be better spent.
RE: RE: MLB network continuing their  
ZGiants98 : 1/21/2021 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15130070 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15130067 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Top 10 at every position with Alonso ranking today.

By my math and their lists, Mets should have a top 10 player at every position except 3B.

Doesn’t mean anything but kinda cool.



Yes and no, they have Nimmo in CF so assuming he's not, they also won't have a top 10 CF (or are unlikely to).


Yup just stating what their lists are. I do agree with them though that regardless of defense, Nimmo likely would finish in the top 10 in WAR in CF over a healthy season. His offense accelerates faster as WAR is position specific. His offense, while still great, isn’t worth as much in LF.

He likely won’t be in CF, but I still find it interesting.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 3:03 pm : link
wasn't disagreeing with you, rather our CF (whoever that is) likely isn't going to be a top 10 player at the position. JBJ obviously has higher odds of that than say horrendous Almora etc.
RE: PJ  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 3:03 pm : link
In comment 15130058 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I mostly agree with you... except the farm system/MLB success stuff. The Rays and Dodgers are loaded (and were the WS teams) and the Padres were one of the best teams in baseball in 2020, and then used their completely loaded farm to improve upon that. The Braves have had one of the better farms (thus their recent success), The Twins/Indians were top farm systems and the Twins should again be a playoff team this year, the Indians are now rebuilding, Houston has routinely been loaded at the MLB and minor league levels as well. I think the rob peter to pay paul stuff is a thing of the past. You can build a farm and an MLB team at the same time.


Dodgers I agree with, the rarity, built for long-term success.

Let's see the rest sustain the major league success.

The small market teams generally do well until they are forced to trade their good players before having to pay them.

Maybe some like SD is flipping that by spending on players like Machado (though still mostly players on low salaries), and for TB, CLE, MIN etc. I'll believe it when I see it - my sense is they'll be competitive while they have cost controlled young talent.

Good discussion, that IMO takes more than a season or two to reach conclusions because it takes looking back and seeing what they did
The  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 3:06 pm : link
Mets obviously need to rebuild the farm. They have some interesting pieces but in some areas it's almost unbelievable how thin they are. SP and OF in particular. This is going to take some time. That doesn't mean they can't trade prospects, but it does mean they shouldn't be giving away 6 prospects for Marisnick/Broxton/Hamilton. In the near term they don't have a ton of help on the way so 1 year deals for veterans are going to have to be the norm.
RE: I  
ZGiants98 : 1/21/2021 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15130084 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
wasn't disagreeing with you, rather our CF (whoever that is) likely isn't going to be a top 10 player at the position. JBJ obviously has higher odds of that than say horrendous Almora etc.


Yup. I think looking at it also reaffirms a 3B/2B is the smarter target now(McNeil plays the other spot). As you’ve mentioned there’s a huge drop off from Springer left available while there are plenty of goof IF targets. I think we could get by with a Marisnick/Nimmo platoon if need be if the IF was rock solid.
No  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 3:08 pm : link
issue giving up prospects for multi-year good MLB options. You deal of a Mauricio as part of a Gray/Suarez deal (I don't believe this "rumor" FWIW), that's completely fine, 2 players under control long term. It's when you're tossing in prospects like they have no value, or trading them because you won't spend on FA where it becomes an issue.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 3:10 pm : link
don't think it's realistic because I think he's earmarked for LAD but Turner would be pretty great on a 2 year deal. Still mashes, he needs his PT managed at 36 but they DO have Davis/McNeil and Guillorme. Turner for 110 games would be a really solid addition (again don't think he's realistic).
I read that Martino piece and I dont understand it  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/21/2021 3:20 pm : link
What is any of Cohen's talk or money for if they let Lindor walk for "draft picks". That is the opposite of who Steve Cohen represented himself to be.
RE: I read that Martino piece and I dont understand it  
KDavies : 1/21/2021 3:42 pm : link
In comment 15130105 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
What is any of Cohen's talk or money for if they let Lindor walk for "draft picks". That is the opposite of who Steve Cohen represented himself to be.


It's bs. No way do they trade for Lindor without intentions of signing him to a long-term deal.
RE: RE: I read that Martino piece and I dont understand it  
KDavies : 1/21/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15130122 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15130105 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


What is any of Cohen's talk or money for if they let Lindor walk for "draft picks". That is the opposite of who Steve Cohen represented himself to be.



It's bs. No way do they trade for Lindor without intentions of signing him to a long-term deal.


And trade 2 shortstops in the process.
I’d take Turner on a 2 year deal  
ZGiants98 : 1/21/2021 3:46 pm : link
That would be a fun reunion (even though I think he hates Sandy lol)

Turner, Hand, and Marisnick. Invite Gio to ST. Offseason over.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 4:08 pm : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Mets are hiring Kevin Howard as farm director. He was Indians hitting coordinator.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 4:32 pm : link
Noticed Kevin Howard retweeted some video of Oscar Mercado. He had an AWFUL 2020 but 1.8 fWAR in 2019. 15 homers/15 steals, career +5 DRS in CF, +8 OAA... what does Mercado cost
@mets
?
RE: RE: The first round pick is generally the easiest place to save the money  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 4:37 pm : link
In comment 15130066 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

The point is 700,000 in draft pool money loss would be extremely low on the totem pole of issues in deciding to be a repeat lux tax offender. They would have lost about 1.5 million AND a pick for signing any FA tied to a QO and we know they were IN on Springer and were "in" on Realmuto (he wasn't looking to sign quickly) that tells us this penalty if of little concern vs. others.


Isn't the bold the exact point? They were IN on Springer, even if it made it very likely they were going to get close or go over the LTT. Doesn't that prove that they are willing to be aggressive? They had every excuse to say they were out on him after acquiring Lindor/Carrasco if they wanted to.

And further isn't the Springer situation a perfect example of why you want to have flexibility so that way when a player of his ability comes along you can go after them without penalty?

I mean the biggest spending teams seem to operate this exact same way. They are willing to go over if they have to but they don't go over just to do so. They all seem to try to preserve flexibility and avoid repeat offender status.
reports that  
ryanmkeane : 1/21/2021 5:04 pm : link
Bauer is down to Mets or Angels
RE: reports that  
JayBinQueens : 1/21/2021 5:05 pm : link
In comment 15130204 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Bauer is down to Mets or Angels


Carton & Evan said rumor is 5 years $185mil.

Didn't say where he heard it from
Bauer/Lindor  
jpkmets : 1/21/2021 5:06 pm : link
Was a dream offseason. Would jump for joy. Sorry downstairs neighbors
looks like its coming from  
ryanmkeane : 1/21/2021 5:09 pm : link
Mark Feinsand of MLB.com
signing Bauer would be a wow move  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 5:10 pm : link
guess we will wait to see what the contract looks like but I have a hard time believing they would be in for anything too long term.

If they sign him for multiple years, I wonder if on the flip side they'd consider moving Stroman, since that would bring the chances of resigning him down to 0.
Complete BS  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 5:17 pm : link
No offer had been made. Nothing is new. Feinsand said the same weeks ago
RE: looks like its coming from  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 5:19 pm : link
In comment 15130213 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Mark Feinsand of MLB.com


Feinsand simply said the Mets and Angels are in the best position to land him. This is complete BS from Carton.
This  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 5:24 pm : link
is all he said, this isn't some breaking or new news.


"Mets team president Sandy Alderson made it clear early in the winter that he likes Bauer, and even after signing Marcus Stroman, James McCann and Trevor May for a combined $75 million -- then trading for Francisco Lindor, who will earn $22.3 million in 2021 and command a huge extension likely exceeding $300 million -- new owner Steve Cohen has the financial wherewithal to sign Bauer (or anybody else, for that matter).

Pairing Bauer with Jacob deGrom atop the rotation would give the Mets a rock-solid 1-2 punch, with Stroman and eventually Noah Syndergaard forming a stellar group. Having missed out on Springer, will the Mets now turn their attention to Bauer?"
If Bauer  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 5:26 pm : link
circles back to the beginning of the off-season and wants a 1 year deal it may be perfect for the Mets.

After this year the Mets would have Bauer, Stroman and Syndergaard all free agents.

QO's for all and try and sign Syndergaard (if he returns to pre TJS Syndergaard), see how Bauer pitches, and after winning the world series make the call the call on him too.

Let Stroman go for a pick.

2nd half rotation of
deGrom
Syndergaard
Carrasco
Bauer
Stroman

and then the depth is really depth (they'll need a 5th starter until Syndergaard comes back) and then Matz, Lucchesi, etc. can be used the way they should be used).

but that ship may have sailed, but who knows.
This is what he said 2 full months ago  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 5:28 pm : link
"Feinsand said, “Whether Bauer decides on a multiyear deal or a one-year pact, the Mets are the team to watch here” and also added, “Several other teams will be in the mix for Bauer, but the Mets feel like the team ready to take the jump to sign him.”


He's been saying this for... 2 months. His new article doesn't say ANYTHING new or revelatory. Carton is a complete BSer. I'd take Bauer in one second but this isn't even a "rumor".
PJ, nice post but just one nit  
Metnut : 1/21/2021 5:29 pm : link
Stroman not eligible for the QO since he was given one this offseason.
yea I think I said this yesterday but unless he falls in their laps  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 5:33 pm : link
it is hard to envision Bauer after adding Carrasco for 3 years and having Thor up at the end of the year. To say nothing of what happens with Stroman. That's just such a heavy investment. Those 5 players would cost over $100m combined against the LTT this year and more beyond.

I think they will bring 1 more vet SP into camp but I expect it to be in the 2-4m range and heavily incentive based. That would have 4 guys competing for 2 spots in ST, with 2 of them having options to go down and 2 non-guaranteed vets. Plus Thor coming back midseason.
RE: PJ, nice post but just one nit  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 5:44 pm : link
In comment 15130237 Metnut said:
Quote:
Stroman not eligible for the QO since he was given one this offseason.


Thanks Metnut. Still hate that trade, and I hate it more every day.

Stroman could go a long way toward making me not hate it by pitching lights out.
RE: PJ, nice post but just one nit  
Shecky : 1/21/2021 6:10 pm : link
In comment 15130237 Metnut said:
Quote:
Stroman not eligible for the QO since he was given one this offseason.


Would we get a 2nd or a 4th of Thor leaves?
shecky do you think they get your guy  
Eric on Li : 1/21/2021 6:14 pm : link
Kike? 800+ career OPS vs. lefties, perfect winning mentality, could possibly start in the IF, provides OF depth. A lot to like there.
really dont want to not  
Rory : 1/21/2021 6:33 pm : link
have money set aside if Thor returns to form and becomes dominant again, will want to to sign him extension and have him carry DeGrom's torch as ace of the staff for the future.
RE: shecky do you think they get your guy  
Shecky : 1/21/2021 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15130270 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Kike? 800+ career OPS vs. lefties, perfect winning mentality, could possibly start in the IF, provides OF depth. A lot to like there.


Lol. Have absolutely no idea
I'm not deep in baseball like you all , but why is Bauer considered  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/21/2021 7:38 pm : link
an elite free agent? The way people talk about him you'd think he was DeGrom's equal.
RE: Martino  
JoeMoney19 : 1/21/2021 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15129675 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
claims the Mets chose Conforto over Springer (basically) once they signed Lindor.

They love Conforto and want to extend him and they want to extend Lindor and didn't think they can do both with Springer.

Also, says they have multiple options being kicked around for CF and expects that decision is not yet made.

I'm paraphrasing from the article.

Link below. link - ( New Window )


I get the general point but the article doesn’t make a ton of sense. The issue of Springer vs. Conforto existed from the beginning. There’s no reason that should have caused a difference in thinking in the middle of the offseason.
RE: I'm not deep in baseball like you all , but why is Bauer considered  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15130305 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
an elite free agent? The way people talk about him you'd think he was DeGrom's equal.


He had an incredible season and has been "ace" good 2 of the last 3. He's not DeGrom but if he's 2018 or 2020 Bauer (or something in between) the Mets would have the best rotation in baseball and the top 1-2 punch in baseball. The question is... who is the real Bauer?
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 1/21/2021 7:47 pm : link
not "team Bauer" not am I looking for a tedious Bauer argument (seems like he's a big point of contention" but he's 6th in fWAR over the last 3 seasons (no, nowhere near DeGrom), 16th in FIP, 9th in K/9. He's probably closer to top 10 to top 3-4 but at his best (2020) he's been as good as anyone.
Don't mean to incite any arguments. Not too familiar with him  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/21/2021 8:14 pm : link
I just looked at his last no-covid seasons. 200 IP, 1.24 whip. It's good, but it's when I see people say he'd be part of a dream offseason I was curious.
RE: .  
Rory : 1/21/2021 9:14 pm : link
In comment 15130144 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Mets are hiring Kevin Howard as farm director. He was Indians hitting coordinator.


Something about the Clev organization has Sandy's eye. Wonder if Mike Chernoff is back on the radar for 2022
RE: RE: Martino  
pjcas18 : 1/21/2021 9:42 pm : link
In comment 15130310 JoeMoney19 said:
Quote:
In comment 15129675 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


claims the Mets chose Conforto over Springer (basically) once they signed Lindor.

They love Conforto and want to extend him and they want to extend Lindor and didn't think they can do both with Springer.

Also, says they have multiple options being kicked around for CF and expects that decision is not yet made.

I'm paraphrasing from the article.

Link below. link - ( New Window )



I get the general point but the article doesn’t make a ton of sense. The issue of Springer vs. Conforto existed from the beginning. There’s no reason that should have caused a difference in thinking in the middle of the offseason.


Not quite, Lindor changed everything, because then it wasn't Conforto and Springer, it was Lindor, Conforto and Springer. and Springer and Conforto tying up something like 50M in two OF spots.

So I think the article says the Mets pursuit of Springer cooled once the Lindor trade was finalized.
RE: RE: .  
KDavies : 1/21/2021 9:52 pm : link
In comment 15130338 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15130144 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1m
Mets are hiring Kevin Howard as farm director. He was Indians hitting coordinator.



Something about the Clev organization has Sandy's eye. Wonder if Mike Chernoff is back on the radar for 2022


They churn out the pitching
IMO Mets dodged a bullet with Springer  
Vanzetti : 1/22/2021 1:12 am : link
How can you sign him until the DH is resolved?

Do that and you wind up spending 100+ million and make the lineup WORSE because then either Alonso or Dom has to sit. Or you have to trade Dom or Alonso, probably for pennies on the dollar because you painted yourself into a corner.

Also, how much longer can Springer play CF? A lot of talk about his defense has already slipped. Is a 37 year old Springer really going to play CF?

Finally, you would also basically be committed to letting either Conforto and/or Thor walk.

Sounds like Sandy made just a token effort to get him with a lowball offer. Makes me think Cohen was the one fixated on Springer.


Back to the Corner