In 2021, that applies to four Giants players, with their cap hit increase noted:
- G Will Hernandez: From $2.37 million to $3.05 million
- EDGE Lorenzo Carter: From $1.299 million to $2.44 million
- DT B.J. Hill: From $1.28 million to $2.44 million
- CB Isaac Yiadom: From $954,250 to $2.18 million
Link below.
Link - (
New Window )
Good by several players.
Good by several players.
The article mentioned the extension for Logan Ryan being a big part of it.
Too many holes in the dike...especially on O.
Can the NFL force a team to cut players to get under the cap?
Too many holes in the dike...especially on O.
Have to resign big Leo. Focus the draft on offense.
Too many holes in the dike...especially on O.
You don't let the best player on your team go. It won't be happening.
This is such a dumb take, IDK why I am replying.
You realize that BJ Hill might be why the Giants can alliw Tomlinson (or Williams) to leave if they can't agree to future terms?
And you can't absolutely can't count injuries fairly against any draft pick.
Is Dak Prescott now a lousy 4th round pick?
You really need to take a closer look at Reese's and Ross's drafting to gain some perspective IMO.
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just around $7 mill left at years end. So not sure those small increases would do that.
Good by several players.
The article mentioned the extension for Logan Ryan being a big part of it.
Vin, I believe the Giants must have known something about Nate Solder's plan going forward when they signed Ryan to a double digit AAV deal. Again, Pat Traina said she believes Solder plans to retire.
Can the NFL force a team to cut players to get under the cap?
Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Link - ( New Window )
Sounds like a job for BBI Capologist djm.
Former Enron accountant... ;)
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In comment 15129744 section125 said:
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just around $7 mill left at years end. So not sure those small increases would do that.
Good by several players.
The article mentioned the extension for Logan Ryan being a big part of it.
Vin, I believe the Giants must have known something about Nate Solder's plan going forward when they signed Ryan to a double digit AAV deal. Again, Pat Traina said she believes Solder plans to retire.
The best thing for Giants would be to designate him a post June 1st cut rather than a retirement, as it'd move a portion of the bonus into the following year.
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to support big dollars for Team LW.
Too many holes in the dike...especially on O.
Have to resign big Leo. Focus the draft on offense.
I don't think we can do both of these things now, so I pose this question...
What's more important - re-signing LW or getting serious offensive upgrades for DJones, who plays the more critical position?
With a QB on a rookie contract at that.
Hell, we might have to cut everyone!!
Ignorance on the cap abounds here and some are more than happy to relish in the ignorance
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In comment 15129750 bw in dc said:
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to support big dollars for Team LW.
Too many holes in the dike...especially on O.
Have to resign big Leo. Focus the draft on offense.
I don't think we can do both of these things now, so I pose this question...
What's more important - re-signing LW or getting serious offensive upgrades for DJones, who plays the more critical position?
I try and keep the defense intact, as much as possible. Keep that unit strong. I was even in the camp that would take Surtain in the first round of the draft, and focus on offense with our remaining picks.
With this information, I would resign big Leo, go bargain hunting on offensive weapons, and focus the draft (at least first 2-3 rounds) on offense.
I understand the idea that you get as many (proven) weapons for DJ as possible for him to succeed. However, at some point, your quarterback has to elevate those around him. If DJ can't do that with some mid-level free agents and some top level draft talent, he may not be the guy for us long term.
- Much Ado About Nothing
This isn’t necessarily true. Let this play out. There is more to come and no one here can predict what that us.
It asked what was the best cap situation
1) Being $10M over the cap
2) Being $10M under the cap
3) Being $40M under the cap
4) Being $80M under the cap
The results were predictable - they went in order of 4,3,2,1.
Less than 20% chose 2.
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That the Giants were doing great with the salary cap. We will be lucky to sign Williams now after all the cuts:
Hell, we might have to cut everyone!!
Ignorance on the cap abounds here and some are more than happy to relish in the ignorance
Ignorance is thinking that we are going after all these big name Free Agents when we don’t have any space. Cutting a few guys might lead us to re-sign Williams but not much more.
*Star RB on rookie deal
*the worst set of WRs in the NFL with no star power. #1 WR a 5th round pick on rookie deal
*only TE of note is on rookie deal
*Young OL with a bunch of cost controlled players other than Solder
*The 2 great DL we have are both UFA so are not part of that cap number
*We have 1 somewhat expensive LB - Martinez
*We have 2 somewhat expensive DBs - Braberry & Ryan. the rest are on rookie deals or bargain bin
The team is devoid of talent everywhere and needs frontline talent at almost every position group.
And we're over the cap. Unreal.
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In comment 15129744 section125 said:
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just around $7 mill left at years end. So not sure those small increases would do that.
Good by several players.
The article mentioned the extension for Logan Ryan being a big part of it.
Vin, I believe the Giants must have known something about Nate Solder's plan going forward when they signed Ryan to a double digit AAV deal. Again, Pat Traina said she believes Solder plans to retire.
And what are the cap ramifications if he does retire?
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to support big dollars for Team LW.
Too many holes in the dike...especially on O.
You don't let the best player on your team go. It won't be happening.
Agreed. If you don't resign LW, you know exactly who will be signing him. The Eagles, WFT or Dallas like usual.
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In comment 15129777 JoeyBigBlue said:
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That the Giants were doing great with the salary cap. We will be lucky to sign Williams now after all the cuts:
Hell, we might have to cut everyone!!
Ignorance on the cap abounds here and some are more than happy to relish in the ignorance
Ignorance is thinking that we are going after all these big name Free Agents when we don’t have any space. Cutting a few guys might lead us to re-sign Williams but not much more.
Who is thinking we're going after a bunch of big name FA's?? Where are these calls for signing a bunch of high-ticket guys?
We'll have the cap space to sign LW, and either Tomlinson or a mid-high target in FA. And probably enough for 3-4 low-mid signings. Then we'll have enough cap for the salaries and draftees. We'll do some cuts and restructures that will give us the room.
When all nets out, we'll likely be in the $7M range under the cap.
Do sites like SporTrac and OverTheCap know about them when they publish their data?
Which will result in ~10 mil savings vs the 2021 cap.
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In comment 15129781 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15129777 JoeyBigBlue said:
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That the Giants were doing great with the salary cap. We will be lucky to sign Williams now after all the cuts:
Hell, we might have to cut everyone!!
Ignorance on the cap abounds here and some are more than happy to relish in the ignorance
Ignorance is thinking that we are going after all these big name Free Agents when we don’t have any space. Cutting a few guys might lead us to re-sign Williams but not much more.
Who is thinking we're going after a bunch of big name FA's?? Where are these calls for signing a bunch of high-ticket guys?
We'll have the cap space to sign LW, and either Tomlinson or a mid-high target in FA. And probably enough for 3-4 low-mid signings. Then we'll have enough cap for the salaries and draftees. We'll do some cuts and restructures that will give us the room.
When all nets out, we'll likely be in the $7M range under the cap.
I guess you’ve missed all threads calling for Golloday, Robinson, Thuney, and etc. ..
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just around $7 mill left at years end. So not sure those small increases would do that.
Good by several players.
The article mentioned the extension for Logan Ryan being a big part of it.
Ryan cut into it when they signed the deal. It was known then and I a certain OTC adjusted and I think they went from $13 or $17 mill down to $7 after that.
Of course we do not know the true numbers, just what OTC or Sportrac tell us.
Maybe, but that will have more to do with what they plan for BJ Hill and Lawrence than it does with 2021 cap limitations.
What I have seen is a bunch of posters asking how a team with a QB can be over the cap - when being over the cap right now is a technicality.
p.s.--The salary cap will wind up a lot closer to $195M than $175M when all is said and done.
What I have seen is a bunch of posters asking how a team with a QB can be over the cap - when being over the cap right now is a technicality.
So you think we can sign Williams plus a big name Free agent? Or just one big name Free Agent? I’m confused.
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them. We will have the ability to sign one of them. Who is calling for all 3 or multiple guys??
What I have seen is a bunch of posters asking how a team with a QB can be over the cap - when being over the cap right now is a technicality.
So you think we can sign Williams plus a big name Free agent? Or just one big name Free Agent? I’m confused.
You could be less confused by reading up above:
"We'll have the cap space to sign LW, and either Tomlinson or a mid-high target in FA. And probably enough for 3-4 low-mid signings. Then we'll have enough cap for the salaries and draftees. We'll do some cuts and restructures that will give us the room.
When all nets out, we'll likely be in the $7M range under the cap."
Somehow, I'm fairly confident you'll remain confused.
*Star RB on rookie deal
*the worst set of WRs in the NFL with no star power. #1 WR a 5th round pick on rookie deal
*only TE of note is on rookie deal
*Young OL with a bunch of cost controlled players other than Solder
*The 2 great DL we have are both UFA so are not part of that cap number
*We have 1 somewhat expensive LB - Martinez
*We have 2 somewhat expensive DBs - Braberry & Ryan. the rest are on rookie deals or bargain bin
The team is devoid of talent everywhere and needs frontline talent at almost every position group.
And we're over the cap. Unreal.
This is a good post (if accurate).
Couple of points to note, that star RB on his rookie deal is a very expensive rookie. In fact, would be surprised if Giants aren't way up there on cost for the whole RB corps versus the rest of the league. RG Zietler is costly too on the OL. Is that true both Williams and Tomlinson are not part of those numbers?
This franchise really should think about rebuilding differently.
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In comment 15129816 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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them. We will have the ability to sign one of them. Who is calling for all 3 or multiple guys??
What I have seen is a bunch of posters asking how a team with a QB can be over the cap - when being over the cap right now is a technicality.
So you think we can sign Williams plus a big name Free agent? Or just one big name Free Agent? I’m confused.
You could be less confused by reading up above:
"We'll have the cap space to sign LW, and either Tomlinson or a mid-high target in FA. And probably enough for 3-4 low-mid signings. Then we'll have enough cap for the salaries and draftees. We'll do some cuts and restructures that will give us the room.
When all nets out, we'll likely be in the $7M range under the cap."
Somehow, I'm fairly confident you'll remain confused.
You’re a snarky little bitch aren’t you? Unless you cut half the team that isn’t happening. But keep believing whatever you want.
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In comment 15129755 BubbaMojo said:
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In comment 15129750 bw in dc said:
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to support big dollars for Team LW.
Too many holes in the dike...especially on O.
Have to resign big Leo. Focus the draft on offense.
I don't think we can do both of these things now, so I pose this question...
What's more important - re-signing LW or getting serious offensive upgrades for DJones, who plays the more critical position?
I understand the idea that you get as many (proven) weapons for DJ as possible for him to succeed. However, at some point, your quarterback has to elevate those around him. If DJ can't do that with some mid-level free agents and some top level draft talent, he may not be the guy for us long term.
Well, now you are speaking my language of what a high QB selection should do.
But I just don't think he has that in him. He's trending much closer to a game manager type.
Think about....a business owner moving revenue and cost from one year to the next...
Clearly it's ok to be projected to be over the cap - but for how long?
This cap # does include some easy cuts through
Golden Tate - $10.8 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Nate Solder - $16.5 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Think about....a business owner moving revenue and cost from one year to the next...
It may not mean everything but it certainly means something.
Yes, its okay to try and max out cap usage in a year. Netting 6 total wins as the result of that effort should be telling the front office something.
Those who do the work do the learning. Those who don't take the time to confirm it on the corner forum.
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*QB on rookie deal
*Star RB on rookie deal
*the worst set of WRs in the NFL with no star power. #1 WR a 5th round pick on rookie deal
*only TE of note is on rookie deal
*Young OL with a bunch of cost controlled players other than Solder
*The 2 great DL we have are both UFA so are not part of that cap number
*We have 1 somewhat expensive LB - Martinez
*We have 2 somewhat expensive DBs - Braberry & Ryan. the rest are on rookie deals or bargain bin
The team is devoid of talent everywhere and needs frontline talent at almost every position group.
And we're over the cap. Unreal.
This is a good post (if accurate).
Couple of points to note, that star RB on his rookie deal is a very expensive rookie. In fact, would be surprised if Giants aren't way up there on cost for the whole RB corps versus the rest of the league. RG Zietler is costly too on the OL. Is that true both Williams and Tomlinson are not part of those numbers?
This franchise really should think about rebuilding differently.
Also wild that this time last year, many of us were looking to get rid of Zeitler in favor of Hernandez. How Hernandez has fallen from grace. Maybe a topic for a different thread, but I wonder if a new OL coach may be able to straighten him out.
This cap # does include some easy cuts through
Golden Tate - $10.8 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Nate Solder - $16.5 million ($6 million saved if cut)
You cut Zeitler and it gives us 12 million.
That’s 24 million to sign Williams, a few low level FA, and our draft picks. I don’t know who else you cut to make space. Maybe Engram and his 6 million but then you have a hole at TE.
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
Those who do the work do the learning. Those who don't take the time to confirm it on the corner forum.
I seriously doubt the majority of BBI posters know and understand the intricacies of the NFL salary cap.
I'm simply acknowledging that.
This cap # does include some easy cuts through
Golden Tate - $10.8 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Nate Solder - $16.5 million ($6 million saved if cut)
If they want to defer some of the cap hit, they can cut Solder June 1. This would save the Giants about $10m on the 2021 cap, but push $4m of dead-cap to the 2022 cap.
both you, me, and Gettelman
And to think we are going through this with a rookie QB contract! Complete GM incompetence.
And to think we are going through this with a rookie QB contract! Complete GM incompetence.
Yes all gms should have seen covid coming and the resultant cut off the cap! DG should be fired for it.
The Giants have to determine which players they want to keep, who they are going to release, who they will extend, and who they want to sign
What helps the Giants is that they do not have many long term contracts Therefore they can extend out players
Teams that have problems are teams substantially over the CAP and have long term backloaded contracts
It is more about how much cash you spend and the size of bonuses
The Cowboys are an example of team that kicks the can down the road They extend contracts and spend a lot of actual cash by giving large bonuses that are prorated over the length of the contract
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
both you, me, and Gettelman
HAHAHAHAHAH - post of the day.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
No - it should not be a slamdunk. It wasn't for Joseph. For Cofield. For Hankins. It's actually one of the positions we are deep enough at that we don't have to allot a lot of $$ to him.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
That’s all when and good when you are a winning organization and you have core players, or an established franchise QB. We’ve lost 10 or more games 4 years and counting now. We aren’t in the position to be backloading contracts.
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trying to figure out exactly what we're "going through" that has hand-wringing here and comments about having a QB on a rookie contract.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
That’s all when and good when you are a winning organization and you have core players, or an established franchise QB. We’ve lost 10 or more games 4 years and counting now. We aren’t in the position to be backloading contracts.
So please tell us - what is the ideal amount of cap space that we should have?
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In comment 15129904 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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trying to figure out exactly what we're "going through" that has hand-wringing here and comments about having a QB on a rookie contract.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
That’s all when and good when you are a winning organization and you have core players, or an established franchise QB. We’ve lost 10 or more games 4 years and counting now. We aren’t in the position to be backloading contracts.
So please tell us - what is the ideal amount of cap space that we should have?
After cuts we should have maybe 30-35 million to sign Williams, and mid level FA, a couple of low level FA , and our draft picks.
That's likely where we will be.
We are a few months away from the draft and A LOT is going to happen with our roster and these contracts between now and then.
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After cuts we should have maybe 30-35 million to sign Williams, and mid level FA, a couple of low level FA , and our draft picks.
That's likely where we will be.
Who are you cutting to get there?
Tate
Solder
Zeitler
????
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so what are you complaining about then??
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After cuts we should have maybe 30-35 million to sign Williams, and mid level FA, a couple of low level FA , and our draft picks.
That's likely where we will be.
Who are you cutting to get there?
Tate
Solder
Zeitler
????
Three names that really spearheaded the rebuilding of the Offense to where it is today!
Answer the question? You are the smartest person in the room. Let’s hear your thoughts.
Can he be franchised again and if so....will the figure go down with the cap going down or would it have to be affected by the top 5 DT's salaries in 2021?
I can see franchising him if a deal can't be worked.
The negotiations that allowed the 2020 season to proceed included a commitment that the 2021 salary cap will be no lower than $175 million per team. The upcoming negotiations (and it’s negotiated every year) regarding the 2021 salary cap could result in a number significantly higher than $175 million.
Per a league source, the possibility that stadiums will be full for the 2021 season could prompt the league to not tie the hands of teams by dropping the salary cap by more than $23 million per team, from $198.2 million. Although the 2020 season will indeed result in lower revenue than usual, the potential of a return to something normal or close to it plus the coming TV deals may result in the league keeping the cap in the range of $195 million.
Time will tell what the league chooses to do. Although a projected cap typically is shared with all owners in December, the final decision isn’t made until late February or early March, through negotiations with the NFL Players Association. By then, the league will know more about whether the vaccine is being distributed and working properly, setting the stage for coffers being restored via ticket revenue in 2021.
The losses from 2020 will still be absorbed at some point. However, most teams won’t want to tie their hands next year with a dramatically reduced cap. Pushing losses to future years also helps players by reducing the possibility of the widespread termination of veteran contracts.
Can the NFL force a team to cut players to get under the cap?
Is this a real question?
Teams are required to operate beneath the salary cap. It's not a luxury tax.
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In comment 15129744 section125 said:
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just around $7 mill left at years end. So not sure those small increases would do that.
Good by several players.
The article mentioned the extension for Logan Ryan being a big part of it.
Vin, I believe the Giants must have known something about Nate Solder's plan going forward when they signed Ryan to a double digit AAV deal. Again, Pat Traina said she believes Solder plans to retire.
Based on Patty's spelling, she might have meant "retry"
Abrams is NOT excellent at managing the cap.
Abrams is basically league average or slightly below. Giants fans have got to stop thinking of this guy as an asset; he's a borderline liability.
*Star RB on rookie deal
*the worst set of WRs in the NFL with no star power. #1 WR a 5th round pick on rookie deal
*only TE of note is on rookie deal
*Young OL with a bunch of cost controlled players other than Solder
*The 2 great DL we have are both UFA so are not part of that cap number
*We have 1 somewhat expensive LB - Martinez
*We have 2 somewhat expensive DBs - Braberry & Ryan. the rest are on rookie deals or bargain bin
The team is devoid of talent everywhere and needs frontline talent at almost every position group.
And we're over the cap. Unreal.
It's why I advocate for getting lean while you're rebuilding, and being very careful about going big in UFA. It just doesn't compute, at some point it's going to bite you on the arse.
Can he be franchised again and if so....will the figure go down with the cap going down or would it have to be affected by the top 5 DT's salaries in 2021?
I can see franchising him if a deal can't be worked.
If LW were tagged again - which would be a disastrous outcome - the tag value as his second tag would be unaffected by both the cap and the top 5 average. It would be 120% of his 2020 salary.
It's not a move we should be hoping for in any circumstance.
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Is there a fine?
Can the NFL force a team to cut players to get under the cap?
Is this a real question?
Teams are required to operate beneath the salary cap. It's not a luxury tax.
Perhaps I should have typed - what is the fine...how steep are the penalties...
Giants#1 provided a great link with more details - thank you.
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That the Giants were doing great with the salary cap. We will be lucky to sign Williams now after all the cuts:
Hell, we might have to cut everyone!!
Ignorance on the cap abounds here and some are more than happy to relish in the ignorance
Especially among those who sing Abrams' praises.
But not being under the 2021 projected cap in January is not an emergency or a tragedy.
The Giants have a number of safe levers to pull to get under even the negotiated cap floor of 175M.
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Drafted player who deserves a second contract and having to debate and go through cap structuring scenarios to see if we can afford him. Meanwhile, we’ve barely won any games the last few seasons and our QB is on a rookie contract. Resigning Tomlinson isn’t a slam dunk and it should be.
No - it should not be a slamdunk. It wasn't for Joseph. For Cofield. For Hankins. It's actually one of the positions we are deep enough at that we don't have to allot a lot of $$ to him.
One of the things that led to Reese's downfall was having to burn a series of 2nd round picks to continue to replace DTs that he let walk rather than keeping even one of them, which would have allowed him to use that premium pick to reinforce the roster elsewhere.
I get that you just love to defend the front office's status quo. But you're wrong.
Maybe you can dig up some more data on individual receivers' separation metrics and try to fool everyone with your faux intelligence again.
Think about....a business owner moving revenue and cost from one year to the next...
Finally someone that gets it
Spot on - the tender for Williams is ~19M (120% of his 2020 salary).
For many practical reasons, this is a bad idea.
Logically, it's also sensibility offending. The components of his 2020 tender were built from variables based on the 2020 cap (198M).
The 120% escalator in part is a way to protect the player's relative value against a rising cap.
But now the Giants would be the victims of an equation designed for a rising cap, in a year the cap is going down.
Have you shit your pants today?
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It's not a move we should be hoping for in any circumstance.
Spot on - the tender for Williams is ~19M (120% of his 2020 salary).
For many practical reasons, this is a bad idea.
Logically, it's also sensibility offending. The components of his 2020 tender were built from variables based on the 2020 cap (198M).
The 120% escalator in part is a way to protect the player's relative value against a rising cap.
But now the Giants would be the victims of an equation designed for a rising cap, in a year the cap is going down.
Well thought out post.
Applying the franchise tag a second time on Williams at that salary level and getting no control over his services going forward is almost pure lunacy. At some point there has to be a meeting of the minds between these parties otherwise these just seem like taking bullets to the chest each year.
If the NY Giants were a slam-dunk playoff contender for 2021 and Williams was the piece that the front office felt could put them over the top to win it all, then there might be more justification for the short term decision. But that isn't the case, so applying the tag again would just be extending what has been a dicey execution strategy from the start with this talented defensive lineman.
The Giants problem has not been cap management per se, but more so resource allocation and veteran player analysis.
In two offseasons (18/19), the Giants added maybe one good veteran players (Zeitler).
That they can now wiggle out of those deals is a moral victory on the spreadsheet, but wasn't that inspiring on the field.
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I don’t care because we have pros who know how to sign/re-sign/extend as well as push money out as necessary..There will not be cap hell, imv..
The Giants problem has not been cap management per se, but more so resource allocation and veteran player analysis.
In two offseasons (18/19), the Giants added maybe one good veteran players (Zeitler).
That they can now wiggle out of those deals is a moral victory on the spreadsheet, but wasn't that inspiring on the field.
The key here is signing and extending those whose futures lie with us..The rest is noise.
This has hurt most teams, the Eagles and the Saints more than most: to the point with the Saints I’m not sure how they’re going to get under the cap (you can get there with a bunch of cuts, a trade of Lattimore and a tranche of restructures) but you’re left with about 30 players under contract and a bunch of moves still required to try to free up enough cap for the rookie class
Yea, no one does.
huh? Carter did play and played well before he was injured.
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
Sounds like a job for BBI Capologist djm.
Former Enron accountant... ;)
Haha except there is no job for anyone here. And I don't profess to know any of these stupid cap details other than the Giants will be able to add to this team without much subtraction. Watch. Then wait. And I will be back to say I told you so.
We aren't in cap hell. Not even close. This thread is ridiculous.
ONe player people. One. This thread comes off as if the entire team is composed of highly paid long term and past their prime players that got a HC fired. Oh wait. DG INHERETED that team and 99% of this place wanted him to nuke the entire roster and start. Which....HE DID.
The Giants have 2 players that are worth bringing back. ONE that is great. One that is good. The rest of the roster is primarily composed of younger players. Many have flashed already. Many more need to. This isn't an old team. This isn't a team up against any cap or any financial doomsday scenario and even that can be overstated around here. It's only the end of the world when the entire team shits the bed like it did 2017.
Stop with the hysterics.
Zietler (not that long and worth it)
Solder (not that long)
Martinez (worth it)
Bradbury (worth it)
Ryan (not that long but worth it)
Shepard (middle of the road salary)
Peppers(should I even include him?)
Engram (should I even include him?)
Barkley(should I even include him?)
This team pretty much NEEDS highly paid long term vets. They have hardly any, save for the choice few I listed.
I hope like hell this team is in serious cap hell in 2 years. That means we spent a bunch of money on good to great players. Last time we were in cap hell, prior to 2017, was when we were in the playoffs every other year.
In two offseasons (18/19), the Giants added maybe one good veteran players (Zeitler).
That they can now wiggle out of those deals is a moral victory on the spreadsheet, but wasn't that inspiring on the field.
The key here is signing and extending those whose futures lie with us..The rest is noise.
A key component to extending and signing the future really does rest with cutting Tate, Solder, and either cutting or trading Zeitler. And while that will free up upwards of 50M dollars over the next two years, it will result in upwards of 17M in dead money.
From a financial perspective, you’d like players to play through the years with guaranteed money. The Bradberry and Martinez contracts are excellent examples of how to make that likely.
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
Yea, no one does.
No, YOU don't.
It's fully published and several people here know exactly how it works.
Tate (June 1)
Solder (June 1)
Zeitler
Engram
Toilio
R. Lewis
Yiadom
That shows us with a Cap of 180.8m ( I assume this includes rollover) and Cap Room of 33.9.m
My thinking with those cuts is:
Tate - replace with a FA (below)
Solder - we don't need him
Zeitler - Hernandez can take his spot
EE - replace with a FA (below)
Toilio - replace with any vet minimum / UDFA
Yiadom - replace with a FA (below)
Honestly there are other cuts to make but the replacement may actually cost us more money or be a wash.
My cuts leave 3-4 roster holes, as we can backfill the tackle, guard and WR roster spots with the guys we have in the pipeline.
Then if I transition tag Leonard and Franchise Tag Dalvin, I show 7m room.
That's not going to work. We need way more than 7m cap room.
So we let Dalvin walk (weep) and keep the transition tag on LW and OTC shows me we have 20m of cap room.
That's tight, but I think we can work with it?
Is OTC accurate? Or is that just fantasy numbers?
Now I don't know that much about contracts, but with 20m cap space, shouldn't we be able to afford FA's Corey Davis, Jonnu Smith (TE), Michael Davis (CB) plus a few of our own cheap FA? Then our draft choices, and then the usual carousel of swapping one vet minimum guy for a different one?
I know that's not perfect (pass rusher in 2021 2021 except possible day 1 or 2 draft choice) but the three guys I named I think would be big upgrades, affordable and barring injury that is three less chronic roster holes for the next few years.
Honestly, the other guys we would cut and the guys we let walk, they aren't really much better if any than a roll-the-dice cheap vet / UDFA so to me that's going to basically a wash, cap-wise.
Am I delusional? Just a lack of knowledge? Or maybe the situation for the GMen is workable if we temper our expectations and realize it will still take another year or two, to get where we want to be?
So, let him walk for a year?
In 2022, we'll also have Barkley to deal with, and Jones entering the final year of his rookie contract, along with Dexter Lawrence.
Borrowing from future years and kicking the can down the road is something that is ill-advised, but can make sense under the right circumstances. A rebuilding team is never in in those right circumstances.
Tate (June 1)
Solder (June 1)
Zeitler
Engram
Toilio
R. Lewis
Yiadom
That shows us with a Cap of 180.8m ( I assume this includes rollover) and Cap Room of 33.9.m
My thinking with those cuts is:
Tate - replace with a FA (below)
Solder - we don't need him
Zeitler - Hernandez can take his spot
EE - replace with a FA (below)
Toilio - replace with any vet minimum / UDFA
Yiadom - replace with a FA (below)
Honestly there are other cuts to make but the replacement may actually cost us more money or be a wash.
My cuts leave 3-4 roster holes, as we can backfill the tackle, guard and WR roster spots with the guys we have in the pipeline.
Then if I transition tag Leonard and Franchise Tag Dalvin, I show 7m room.
That's not going to work. We need way more than 7m cap room.
So we let Dalvin walk (weep) and keep the transition tag on LW and OTC shows me we have 20m of cap room.
That's tight, but I think we can work with it?
Is OTC accurate? Or is that just fantasy numbers?
Now I don't know that much about contracts, but with 20m cap space, shouldn't we be able to afford FA's Corey Davis, Jonnu Smith (TE), Michael Davis (CB) plus a few of our own cheap FA? Then our draft choices, and then the usual carousel of swapping one vet minimum guy for a different one?
I know that's not perfect (pass rusher in 2021 2021 except possible day 1 or 2 draft choice) but the three guys I named I think would be big upgrades, affordable and barring injury that is three less chronic roster holes for the next few years.
Honestly, the other guys we would cut and the guys we let walk, they aren't really much better if any than a roll-the-dice cheap vet / UDFA so to me that's going to basically a wash, cap-wise.
Am I delusional? Just a lack of knowledge? Or maybe the situation for the GMen is workable if we temper our expectations and realize it will still take another year or two, to get where we want to be?
Why would you transition tag LW? Coming off of the franchise tag, the tender is exactly the same as a second FT, which is to say that it's a REALLY bad idea, and the transition tag comes with less benefits but the exact same price.
Further, you cannot typically use both the franchise and transition tags simultaneously. That rule seems to have been suspended for last offseason, and it's unclear whether it remains suspended for this offseason, but even if it does, the escalated tag number for LW combined with the FT for Tomlinson would represent more cap space than the Giants could realistically clear for this year.
No offense, but I don't think you should throw around cap move strategy without reading up a bit more on the rules.
These are probably the same guys who were telling you DG was stupid for trying for Leonard Williams or Saquon Barkley was the better pick over Josh Allen or cutting Ryan Connelly was another stupid mistake.
I wasn't sure about tagging both williams and tomlinson but it doesn't matter, I don't see how we keep both no matter what we do.
Giants have some moves they can make easily and still retain Williams. I'm not sure they can retain Tomlinson at the same time.
Getting low priced , low risk high reward players is a good strategy, especially this year with much less game tape on film from college, no combine etc. I hope they add a few more players that fall into this theme and maybe one of them will hit.
Even with that correction, it's still a bad idea.
The way that repeated tags work is that they trigger a value of 120% of the previous year's tag. Which means that LW would get a 20% raise while the cap goes down significantly.
It also would bring his 2-year guaranteed money to ~$35M, with no assurance beyond this year. It's a very desperate, very undesirable scenario for the Giants, and should only even be entertained if LW and NYG are very far apart on price before the FA period opens.
We'd be better off just asking his team what dollar amount it will take to sign him and then structure his contract favorably - even just handing him a blank check would likely result in a better cap situation than tagging him a second time this year.
The team poised to make a move is Washington. They have the money to go get a QB if one is free.
You know why. Because a team that went 33-15 the last three years deserves some more slack.
It's not like they went 15-33...
Let's get real here - Abrams works for Mara. He's not especially great at what he does, but he's not going to actually face a moment of reckoning while JM is calling the shots.
It should say something like..if nfl 2021 calender started today, the Giants would be over.....
2nd, the Giants are doing a great job with the cap and front loading contracts.....
Most FA contract typically are back loaded for example...24 mil in bonus, 1st year salary is 150k, 2nd year 7 million, 3rd year 10 mil....so cap hit is 8mil in 1st year, 15 in 2nd and 18 in 3rd.
This past year with Blake and Bradberry....the Giants did not back load but front/flat contract....with a cap hit of 10 mil every year.
3rd the Giants are in great shape cap wise....2022 should a very good year...for Giants. The Giants wanted to use all their 2020 cap....so they went right to the limit...which was pushed over due to escalation....no biggie. This is a very conservative approach which is easily resolve....
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his keep.
Let's get real here - Abrams works for Mara. He's not especially great at what he does, but he's not going to actually face a moment of reckoning while JM is calling the shots.
Stupid take. What has JM got to do with Abrams besides signing his check?
Abrams has done a very good job managing the cap.
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In comment 15130316 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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his keep.
Let's get real here - Abrams works for Mara. He's not especially great at what he does, but he's not going to actually face a moment of reckoning while JM is calling the shots.
Stupid take. What has JM got to do with Abrams besides signing his check?
Abrams has done a very good job managing the cap.
You can keep repeating that as often as you'd like, but it's not actually accurate. Abrams has done a satisfactory job. Adequate at best.
How do you build a team by cutting everyone? Carter may or may not be an below average starter, but he makes for excellent depth! You cut him, and he will have to be replaced with a higher priced free agent.
You can't build a team by coming in and just cutting everyone on the thought that they must all be losers, or else you would not have lost so many games..... Well, you can do that. And Gettleman kind of did do that, which is why the rebuild here has been so long and ineffective. The front office should be looking to upgrade talent everywhere on the field, so long as they can fit the players under the cap. Let training camp sort it all out.
Because we aren't an expensive team. Look at the projected cap health in the next few years. It is very good.
The better question is asking why there's spin making it sound like we are in a poor cap situation and acting like all teams aren't making multiple moves due to the cap every year.
Teams - both good and bad have several decisions to make every season on cuts and restructures. We are actually on the lower end of that this year - which is where a team that is young and rebuilding should be.
I really do think a lot of you would rather have the team $80M below the cap and trumpet it as good cap management.
Giants arguably need to upgrade about 4 starters on the Offense and probably 3-4 on the Defense. That many will take far too long to find via the Draft therefore the Giants still need to remain pretty active in Free Agency in my opinion. And that means clearing out a lot of space off the current roster. The roster that, while showed improvement in 2020, still managed to lose 10 games fairly easily.
You often hear that you don't get better by cutting your good players. But exactly how many good players do you think we have on this 6-10 team? The four teams playing on Sunday to go to the Super Bowl won 14, 13, 13 and 11 games. The Giants have no where near enough.
They will go from having $50M in dead money this year to only about $10M next year. They are $5M under the cap now. They are paying Teddy Bridgewater $21M a year and really can't cut him this season.
They will have to decide whether or not to restructure Kawann Short - who will make $21M next year and is 32 years old. Taylor Moton and Curtis Samuel will not be able to be retained.
But with all that being said - the Panthers are in the middle of the pack in relation to the cap. Very similar decisions to make and they are a team with a similar record and a mediocre QB.
The doom and gloom over us in relation to the rest of the teams isn't bad. If the salary cap stays at $175 million, the Saints will have to cut more than $90 million worth of space to even start the league year. That's the direst situation, but the Eagles (nearly $70 million), Falcons ($37 million), Steelers ($30 million), Packers ($24 million), Rams ($24 million), and Chiefs ($23 million) are also substantially over the cap already.
One way the Giants can get a bit creative, create some savings and maybe even upgrade the Oline is adding an experienced Center to take over for Gates. And then use Gates' versatility and move him to RG and displace Zeitler and his expensive salary.
Easton has had some concussion issues this year so that is a concern but might be worth the risk.
Giants arguably need to upgrade about 4 starters on the Offense and probably 3-4 on the Defense. That many will take far too long to find via the Draft therefore the Giants still need to remain pretty active in Free Agency in my opinion. And that means clearing out a lot of space off the current roster. The roster that, while showed improvement in 2020, still managed to lose 10 games fairly easily.
You often hear that you don't get better by cutting your good players. But exactly how many good players do you think we have on this 6-10 team? The four teams playing on Sunday to go to the Super Bowl won 14, 13, 13 and 11 games. The Giants have no where near enough.
+1, and that is the crux of their problems in a nutshell, a lack of talent. Even their best players have much to prove on an NFL field.
Here are the exact figures...
Giants Searching for New Offensive Line Coach; Sign Defensive End - ( New Window )
One way the Giants can get a bit creative, create some savings and maybe even upgrade the Oline is adding an experienced Center to take over for Gates. And then use Gates' versatility and move him to RG and displace Zeitler and his expensive salary.
Easton has had some concussion issues this year so that is a concern but might be worth the risk.
Depending on what the cap actually ends up being, the Saints could really really struggle to get under the cap.
Over the cap has them having to cut/retire Brees, Sanders, Jenkins, Easton, Brown, Alexander then trade Lattimore and restructure/extend Jordan, Thomas, Armstead, Peat and Hill. And all that will get them just about under the cap, but won't create room for the draft class and will leave them with about 30 players under contract so they'd probably need around another $15 million at least.
Also not resigning our most dominating lineman is a joke. BTW how much better would he be if we had a legit edge rusher?
Finally EE is so frustrating to watch but with the needs we have to me TE is not a priority. WR, Edge Rusher and Corner are much more important
The biggest issue with making some kind of move with Zeitler is that Right Tackle is a bigger concern imv. And it might be best to not have an entire new right side of the line and keep a veteran like Zeitler in place another season.
However, as noted above, almost every starting position should still be reviewed for upgrade.
2. All my other reasons are less significant.
And left guard is still not "officially" solved just because we saw improvement under LeMieux. Remember how we were all fooled by 5th round pick Connelly's production his rookie year. I thought he was going to be a mainstay for years. And Slayton is another late round pick who couldn't come close to duplicating his rookie year success, although hopefully that was merely due to injuries and we can expect better production from him in the future.
p.s.--I'm actually quite hopeful regarding LeMieux but the jury is definitely still out.
The Giants are in the driver’s seat with Zeitler. No roster bonus and no guaranteed salary. If they find an upgrade in UFA or the draft they can act, and cut or trade Zeitler. If not keep or restructure.
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more than a cap casualty at this time, just don't see them letting him go and giving the spot to WH or SL. They need to draft another interior OL and potentially a RT to keep pushing Peart, et al.
+1
And left guard is still not "officially" solved just because we saw improvement under LeMieux. Remember how we were all fooled by 5th round pick Connelly's production his rookie year. I thought he was going to be a mainstay for years. And Slayton is another late round pick who couldn't come close to duplicating his rookie year success, although hopefully that was merely due to injuries and we can expect better production from him in the future.
p.s.--I'm actually quite hopeful regarding LeMieux but the jury is definitely still out.
Agreed, it's why I mentioned needing another interior OL. While the unit looked somewhat improved, it still ranked at the bottom of the NFL. No time to rest on laurels.
The Will Hernandez situation is really a body blow if he cannot turn his game around and get back onto that line as a starter. Lemieux has plenty to develop in pass blocking so expect more growing pains sophomore year. Zeitler's play is declining.
Absolutely could use another Guard/Center type in 2021.
Really? DG is all about evaluation and grade?
It's a hell of a coincidence that he has - just like the Giants in general have, including Reese's tenure - somehow lucked into having the top guy on his board match the top need that nearly everyone predicted going into each draft.
Barkley was a notable exception, but even that one was broadly telegraphed by DG's adulation as the draft approached (and it wasn't like RB wasn't a significant need that year with Darkwa and Gallman as the incumbents). The Giants don't actually subscribe to BPA in the first round no matter how much they pay lip service to the idea.
They absolutely draft for need, which is largely why we've been cellar-dwellars for more than half a decade.
Well ... I won't dive too deep into this again, but I think NYG did cave when they picked Jones at #6, based on what I'd heard leading up to draft night, and right up to the pick itself. I think panic he would be gone by #17 was part of the calculus that led to him being picked at #6. You could also argue they reached a little on Andrew Thomas, but it was a small reach.
I'd be surprised if they went OL at #11. Maybe the VT OT grades out, but right now I expect them to go WR, CB, or front seven and fill a big hole.
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A bad expensive team is a management failure. I have no idea why there's an attempt to spin this.
Because we aren't an expensive team. Look at the projected cap health in the next few years. It is very good.
The better question is asking why there's spin making it sound like we are in a poor cap situation and acting like all teams aren't making multiple moves due to the cap every year.
Teams - both good and bad have several decisions to make every season on cuts and restructures. We are actually on the lower end of that this year - which is where a team that is young and rebuilding should be.
I really do think a lot of you would rather have the team $80M below the cap and trumpet it as good cap management.
The most annoying part is that we would have been in fine shape if COVID didn't happen. Half the leagues teams fans are in panic mode because they are going to have make some extremely difficult decisions.
What a year to have cap space though. Are Ernia Adams and Bill Belichik such geniuses that they saw COVID coming? Entirely possible.