In 2021, that applies to four Giants players, with their cap hit increase noted:
- G Will Hernandez: From $2.37 million to $3.05 million
- EDGE Lorenzo Carter: From $1.299 million to $2.44 million
- DT B.J. Hill: From $1.28 million to $2.44 million
- CB Isaac Yiadom: From $954,250 to $2.18 million
Link below.
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Think about....a business owner moving revenue and cost from one year to the next...
Clearly it's ok to be projected to be over the cap - but for how long?
This cap # does include some easy cuts through
Golden Tate - $10.8 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Nate Solder - $16.5 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Think about....a business owner moving revenue and cost from one year to the next...
It may not mean everything but it certainly means something.
Yes, its okay to try and max out cap usage in a year. Netting 6 total wins as the result of that effort should be telling the front office something.
Those who do the work do the learning. Those who don't take the time to confirm it on the corner forum.
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*QB on rookie deal
*Star RB on rookie deal
*the worst set of WRs in the NFL with no star power. #1 WR a 5th round pick on rookie deal
*only TE of note is on rookie deal
*Young OL with a bunch of cost controlled players other than Solder
*The 2 great DL we have are both UFA so are not part of that cap number
*We have 1 somewhat expensive LB - Martinez
*We have 2 somewhat expensive DBs - Braberry & Ryan. the rest are on rookie deals or bargain bin
The team is devoid of talent everywhere and needs frontline talent at almost every position group.
And we're over the cap. Unreal.
This is a good post (if accurate).
Couple of points to note, that star RB on his rookie deal is a very expensive rookie. In fact, would be surprised if Giants aren't way up there on cost for the whole RB corps versus the rest of the league. RG Zietler is costly too on the OL. Is that true both Williams and Tomlinson are not part of those numbers?
This franchise really should think about rebuilding differently.
Also wild that this time last year, many of us were looking to get rid of Zeitler in favor of Hernandez. How Hernandez has fallen from grace. Maybe a topic for a different thread, but I wonder if a new OL coach may be able to straighten him out.
This cap # does include some easy cuts through
Golden Tate - $10.8 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Nate Solder - $16.5 million ($6 million saved if cut)
You cut Zeitler and it gives us 12 million.
That’s 24 million to sign Williams, a few low level FA, and our draft picks. I don’t know who else you cut to make space. Maybe Engram and his 6 million but then you have a hole at TE.
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
Those who do the work do the learning. Those who don't take the time to confirm it on the corner forum.
I seriously doubt the majority of BBI posters know and understand the intricacies of the NFL salary cap.
I'm simply acknowledging that.
This cap # does include some easy cuts through
Golden Tate - $10.8 million ($6 million saved if cut)
Nate Solder - $16.5 million ($6 million saved if cut)
If they want to defer some of the cap hit, they can cut Solder June 1. This would save the Giants about $10m on the 2021 cap, but push $4m of dead-cap to the 2022 cap.
both you, me, and Gettelman
And to think we are going through this with a rookie QB contract! Complete GM incompetence.
And to think we are going through this with a rookie QB contract! Complete GM incompetence.
Yes all gms should have seen covid coming and the resultant cut off the cap! DG should be fired for it.
The Giants have to determine which players they want to keep, who they are going to release, who they will extend, and who they want to sign
What helps the Giants is that they do not have many long term contracts Therefore they can extend out players
Teams that have problems are teams substantially over the CAP and have long term backloaded contracts
It is more about how much cash you spend and the size of bonuses
The Cowboys are an example of team that kicks the can down the road They extend contracts and spend a lot of actual cash by giving large bonuses that are prorated over the length of the contract
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
both you, me, and Gettelman
HAHAHAHAHAH - post of the day.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
No - it should not be a slamdunk. It wasn't for Joseph. For Cofield. For Hankins. It's actually one of the positions we are deep enough at that we don't have to allot a lot of $$ to him.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
That’s all when and good when you are a winning organization and you have core players, or an established franchise QB. We’ve lost 10 or more games 4 years and counting now. We aren’t in the position to be backloading contracts.
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trying to figure out exactly what we're "going through" that has hand-wringing here and comments about having a QB on a rookie contract.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
That’s all when and good when you are a winning organization and you have core players, or an established franchise QB. We’ve lost 10 or more games 4 years and counting now. We aren’t in the position to be backloading contracts.
So please tell us - what is the ideal amount of cap space that we should have?
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In comment 15129904 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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trying to figure out exactly what we're "going through" that has hand-wringing here and comments about having a QB on a rookie contract.
The continual flow of cutting players to save cap, restructuring players to gain cap, and timing the cuts and money to balance dead $$ with the expected cap room 3-5 years down the line happens with every team with regularity.
Taking a snapshot of the cap right now and making sweeping comments about being screwed is ignorant.
I feel like many of you guys would rather be $60M under the cap. Have you looked at the SPORTRAC projections for the next few years? The Giants are in a very favorable position. We have flexibility.
I'd get the hand-wringing if it was legitimate, but many of you guys are doing it out of sheer ignorance based on an article saying we are over the cap on this day.
That’s all when and good when you are a winning organization and you have core players, or an established franchise QB. We’ve lost 10 or more games 4 years and counting now. We aren’t in the position to be backloading contracts.
So please tell us - what is the ideal amount of cap space that we should have?
After cuts we should have maybe 30-35 million to sign Williams, and mid level FA, a couple of low level FA , and our draft picks.
That's likely where we will be.
We are a few months away from the draft and A LOT is going to happen with our roster and these contracts between now and then.
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After cuts we should have maybe 30-35 million to sign Williams, and mid level FA, a couple of low level FA , and our draft picks.
That's likely where we will be.
Who are you cutting to get there?
Tate
Solder
Zeitler
????
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so what are you complaining about then??
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After cuts we should have maybe 30-35 million to sign Williams, and mid level FA, a couple of low level FA , and our draft picks.
That's likely where we will be.
Who are you cutting to get there?
Tate
Solder
Zeitler
????
Three names that really spearheaded the rebuilding of the Offense to where it is today!
Answer the question? You are the smartest person in the room. Let’s hear your thoughts.
Can he be franchised again and if so....will the figure go down with the cap going down or would it have to be affected by the top 5 DT's salaries in 2021?
I can see franchising him if a deal can't be worked.
The negotiations that allowed the 2020 season to proceed included a commitment that the 2021 salary cap will be no lower than $175 million per team. The upcoming negotiations (and it’s negotiated every year) regarding the 2021 salary cap could result in a number significantly higher than $175 million.
Per a league source, the possibility that stadiums will be full for the 2021 season could prompt the league to not tie the hands of teams by dropping the salary cap by more than $23 million per team, from $198.2 million. Although the 2020 season will indeed result in lower revenue than usual, the potential of a return to something normal or close to it plus the coming TV deals may result in the league keeping the cap in the range of $195 million.
Time will tell what the league chooses to do. Although a projected cap typically is shared with all owners in December, the final decision isn’t made until late February or early March, through negotiations with the NFL Players Association. By then, the league will know more about whether the vaccine is being distributed and working properly, setting the stage for coffers being restored via ticket revenue in 2021.
The losses from 2020 will still be absorbed at some point. However, most teams won’t want to tie their hands next year with a dramatically reduced cap. Pushing losses to future years also helps players by reducing the possibility of the widespread termination of veteran contracts.
Can the NFL force a team to cut players to get under the cap?
Is this a real question?
Teams are required to operate beneath the salary cap. It's not a luxury tax.
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In comment 15129744 section125 said:
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just around $7 mill left at years end. So not sure those small increases would do that.
Good by several players.
The article mentioned the extension for Logan Ryan being a big part of it.
Vin, I believe the Giants must have known something about Nate Solder's plan going forward when they signed Ryan to a double digit AAV deal. Again, Pat Traina said she believes Solder plans to retire.
Based on Patty's spelling, she might have meant "retry"
Abrams is NOT excellent at managing the cap.
Abrams is basically league average or slightly below. Giants fans have got to stop thinking of this guy as an asset; he's a borderline liability.
*Star RB on rookie deal
*the worst set of WRs in the NFL with no star power. #1 WR a 5th round pick on rookie deal
*only TE of note is on rookie deal
*Young OL with a bunch of cost controlled players other than Solder
*The 2 great DL we have are both UFA so are not part of that cap number
*We have 1 somewhat expensive LB - Martinez
*We have 2 somewhat expensive DBs - Braberry & Ryan. the rest are on rookie deals or bargain bin
The team is devoid of talent everywhere and needs frontline talent at almost every position group.
And we're over the cap. Unreal.
It's why I advocate for getting lean while you're rebuilding, and being very careful about going big in UFA. It just doesn't compute, at some point it's going to bite you on the arse.
Can he be franchised again and if so....will the figure go down with the cap going down or would it have to be affected by the top 5 DT's salaries in 2021?
I can see franchising him if a deal can't be worked.
If LW were tagged again - which would be a disastrous outcome - the tag value as his second tag would be unaffected by both the cap and the top 5 average. It would be 120% of his 2020 salary.
It's not a move we should be hoping for in any circumstance.
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Is there a fine?
Can the NFL force a team to cut players to get under the cap?
Is this a real question?
Teams are required to operate beneath the salary cap. It's not a luxury tax.
Perhaps I should have typed - what is the fine...how steep are the penalties...
Giants#1 provided a great link with more details - thank you.
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That the Giants were doing great with the salary cap. We will be lucky to sign Williams now after all the cuts:
Hell, we might have to cut everyone!!
Ignorance on the cap abounds here and some are more than happy to relish in the ignorance
Especially among those who sing Abrams' praises.
But not being under the 2021 projected cap in January is not an emergency or a tragedy.
The Giants have a number of safe levers to pull to get under even the negotiated cap floor of 175M.
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Drafted player who deserves a second contract and having to debate and go through cap structuring scenarios to see if we can afford him. Meanwhile, we’ve barely won any games the last few seasons and our QB is on a rookie contract. Resigning Tomlinson isn’t a slam dunk and it should be.
No - it should not be a slamdunk. It wasn't for Joseph. For Cofield. For Hankins. It's actually one of the positions we are deep enough at that we don't have to allot a lot of $$ to him.
One of the things that led to Reese's downfall was having to burn a series of 2nd round picks to continue to replace DTs that he let walk rather than keeping even one of them, which would have allowed him to use that premium pick to reinforce the roster elsewhere.
I get that you just love to defend the front office's status quo. But you're wrong.
Maybe you can dig up some more data on individual receivers' separation metrics and try to fool everyone with your faux intelligence again.
Think about....a business owner moving revenue and cost from one year to the next...
Finally someone that gets it
Spot on - the tender for Williams is ~19M (120% of his 2020 salary).
For many practical reasons, this is a bad idea.
Logically, it's also sensibility offending. The components of his 2020 tender were built from variables based on the 2020 cap (198M).
The 120% escalator in part is a way to protect the player's relative value against a rising cap.
But now the Giants would be the victims of an equation designed for a rising cap, in a year the cap is going down.
Have you shit your pants today?
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It's not a move we should be hoping for in any circumstance.
Spot on - the tender for Williams is ~19M (120% of his 2020 salary).
For many practical reasons, this is a bad idea.
Logically, it's also sensibility offending. The components of his 2020 tender were built from variables based on the 2020 cap (198M).
The 120% escalator in part is a way to protect the player's relative value against a rising cap.
But now the Giants would be the victims of an equation designed for a rising cap, in a year the cap is going down.
Well thought out post.
Applying the franchise tag a second time on Williams at that salary level and getting no control over his services going forward is almost pure lunacy. At some point there has to be a meeting of the minds between these parties otherwise these just seem like taking bullets to the chest each year.
If the NY Giants were a slam-dunk playoff contender for 2021 and Williams was the piece that the front office felt could put them over the top to win it all, then there might be more justification for the short term decision. But that isn't the case, so applying the tag again would just be extending what has been a dicey execution strategy from the start with this talented defensive lineman.
The Giants problem has not been cap management per se, but more so resource allocation and veteran player analysis.
In two offseasons (18/19), the Giants added maybe one good veteran players (Zeitler).
That they can now wiggle out of those deals is a moral victory on the spreadsheet, but wasn't that inspiring on the field.