In 2021, that applies to four Giants players, with their cap hit increase noted:
- G Will Hernandez: From $2.37 million to $3.05 million
- EDGE Lorenzo Carter: From $1.299 million to $2.44 million
- DT B.J. Hill: From $1.28 million to $2.44 million
- CB Isaac Yiadom: From $954,250 to $2.18 million
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I don’t care because we have pros who know how to sign/re-sign/extend as well as push money out as necessary..There will not be cap hell, imv..
The Giants problem has not been cap management per se, but more so resource allocation and veteran player analysis.
In two offseasons (18/19), the Giants added maybe one good veteran players (Zeitler).
That they can now wiggle out of those deals is a moral victory on the spreadsheet, but wasn't that inspiring on the field.
The key here is signing and extending those whose futures lie with us..The rest is noise.
This has hurt most teams, the Eagles and the Saints more than most: to the point with the Saints I’m not sure how they’re going to get under the cap (you can get there with a bunch of cuts, a trade of Lattimore and a tranche of restructures) but you’re left with about 30 players under contract and a bunch of moves still required to try to free up enough cap for the rookie class
Yea, no one does.
huh? Carter did play and played well before he was injured.
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
Sounds like a job for BBI Capologist djm.
Former Enron accountant... ;)
Haha except there is no job for anyone here. And I don't profess to know any of these stupid cap details other than the Giants will be able to add to this team without much subtraction. Watch. Then wait. And I will be back to say I told you so.
We aren't in cap hell. Not even close. This thread is ridiculous.
ONe player people. One. This thread comes off as if the entire team is composed of highly paid long term and past their prime players that got a HC fired. Oh wait. DG INHERETED that team and 99% of this place wanted him to nuke the entire roster and start. Which....HE DID.
The Giants have 2 players that are worth bringing back. ONE that is great. One that is good. The rest of the roster is primarily composed of younger players. Many have flashed already. Many more need to. This isn't an old team. This isn't a team up against any cap or any financial doomsday scenario and even that can be overstated around here. It's only the end of the world when the entire team shits the bed like it did 2017.
Stop with the hysterics.
Zietler (not that long and worth it)
Solder (not that long)
Martinez (worth it)
Bradbury (worth it)
Ryan (not that long but worth it)
Shepard (middle of the road salary)
Peppers(should I even include him?)
Engram (should I even include him?)
Barkley(should I even include him?)
This team pretty much NEEDS highly paid long term vets. They have hardly any, save for the choice few I listed.
I hope like hell this team is in serious cap hell in 2 years. That means we spent a bunch of money on good to great players. Last time we were in cap hell, prior to 2017, was when we were in the playoffs every other year.
In two offseasons (18/19), the Giants added maybe one good veteran players (Zeitler).
That they can now wiggle out of those deals is a moral victory on the spreadsheet, but wasn't that inspiring on the field.
The key here is signing and extending those whose futures lie with us..The rest is noise.
A key component to extending and signing the future really does rest with cutting Tate, Solder, and either cutting or trading Zeitler. And while that will free up upwards of 50M dollars over the next two years, it will result in upwards of 17M in dead money.
From a financial perspective, you’d like players to play through the years with guaranteed money. The Bradberry and Martinez contracts are excellent examples of how to make that likely.
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I have no idea how the salary cap in the NFL actually works.
Yea, no one does.
No, YOU don't.
It's fully published and several people here know exactly how it works.
Tate (June 1)
Solder (June 1)
Zeitler
Engram
Toilio
R. Lewis
Yiadom
That shows us with a Cap of 180.8m ( I assume this includes rollover) and Cap Room of 33.9.m
My thinking with those cuts is:
Tate - replace with a FA (below)
Solder - we don't need him
Zeitler - Hernandez can take his spot
EE - replace with a FA (below)
Toilio - replace with any vet minimum / UDFA
Yiadom - replace with a FA (below)
Honestly there are other cuts to make but the replacement may actually cost us more money or be a wash.
My cuts leave 3-4 roster holes, as we can backfill the tackle, guard and WR roster spots with the guys we have in the pipeline.
Then if I transition tag Leonard and Franchise Tag Dalvin, I show 7m room.
That's not going to work. We need way more than 7m cap room.
So we let Dalvin walk (weep) and keep the transition tag on LW and OTC shows me we have 20m of cap room.
That's tight, but I think we can work with it?
Is OTC accurate? Or is that just fantasy numbers?
Now I don't know that much about contracts, but with 20m cap space, shouldn't we be able to afford FA's Corey Davis, Jonnu Smith (TE), Michael Davis (CB) plus a few of our own cheap FA? Then our draft choices, and then the usual carousel of swapping one vet minimum guy for a different one?
I know that's not perfect (pass rusher in 2021 2021 except possible day 1 or 2 draft choice) but the three guys I named I think would be big upgrades, affordable and barring injury that is three less chronic roster holes for the next few years.
Honestly, the other guys we would cut and the guys we let walk, they aren't really much better if any than a roll-the-dice cheap vet / UDFA so to me that's going to basically a wash, cap-wise.
Am I delusional? Just a lack of knowledge? Or maybe the situation for the GMen is workable if we temper our expectations and realize it will still take another year or two, to get where we want to be?
So, let him walk for a year?
In 2022, we'll also have Barkley to deal with, and Jones entering the final year of his rookie contract, along with Dexter Lawrence.
Borrowing from future years and kicking the can down the road is something that is ill-advised, but can make sense under the right circumstances. A rebuilding team is never in in those right circumstances.
Tate (June 1)
Solder (June 1)
Zeitler
Engram
Toilio
R. Lewis
Yiadom
That shows us with a Cap of 180.8m ( I assume this includes rollover) and Cap Room of 33.9.m
My thinking with those cuts is:
Tate - replace with a FA (below)
Solder - we don't need him
Zeitler - Hernandez can take his spot
EE - replace with a FA (below)
Toilio - replace with any vet minimum / UDFA
Yiadom - replace with a FA (below)
Honestly there are other cuts to make but the replacement may actually cost us more money or be a wash.
My cuts leave 3-4 roster holes, as we can backfill the tackle, guard and WR roster spots with the guys we have in the pipeline.
Then if I transition tag Leonard and Franchise Tag Dalvin, I show 7m room.
That's not going to work. We need way more than 7m cap room.
So we let Dalvin walk (weep) and keep the transition tag on LW and OTC shows me we have 20m of cap room.
That's tight, but I think we can work with it?
Is OTC accurate? Or is that just fantasy numbers?
Now I don't know that much about contracts, but with 20m cap space, shouldn't we be able to afford FA's Corey Davis, Jonnu Smith (TE), Michael Davis (CB) plus a few of our own cheap FA? Then our draft choices, and then the usual carousel of swapping one vet minimum guy for a different one?
I know that's not perfect (pass rusher in 2021 2021 except possible day 1 or 2 draft choice) but the three guys I named I think would be big upgrades, affordable and barring injury that is three less chronic roster holes for the next few years.
Honestly, the other guys we would cut and the guys we let walk, they aren't really much better if any than a roll-the-dice cheap vet / UDFA so to me that's going to basically a wash, cap-wise.
Am I delusional? Just a lack of knowledge? Or maybe the situation for the GMen is workable if we temper our expectations and realize it will still take another year or two, to get where we want to be?
Why would you transition tag LW? Coming off of the franchise tag, the tender is exactly the same as a second FT, which is to say that it's a REALLY bad idea, and the transition tag comes with less benefits but the exact same price.
Further, you cannot typically use both the franchise and transition tags simultaneously. That rule seems to have been suspended for last offseason, and it's unclear whether it remains suspended for this offseason, but even if it does, the escalated tag number for LW combined with the FT for Tomlinson would represent more cap space than the Giants could realistically clear for this year.
No offense, but I don't think you should throw around cap move strategy without reading up a bit more on the rules.
These are probably the same guys who were telling you DG was stupid for trying for Leonard Williams or Saquon Barkley was the better pick over Josh Allen or cutting Ryan Connelly was another stupid mistake.
I wasn't sure about tagging both williams and tomlinson but it doesn't matter, I don't see how we keep both no matter what we do.
Giants have some moves they can make easily and still retain Williams. I'm not sure they can retain Tomlinson at the same time.
Getting low priced , low risk high reward players is a good strategy, especially this year with much less game tape on film from college, no combine etc. I hope they add a few more players that fall into this theme and maybe one of them will hit.
Even with that correction, it's still a bad idea.
The way that repeated tags work is that they trigger a value of 120% of the previous year's tag. Which means that LW would get a 20% raise while the cap goes down significantly.
It also would bring his 2-year guaranteed money to ~$35M, with no assurance beyond this year. It's a very desperate, very undesirable scenario for the Giants, and should only even be entertained if LW and NYG are very far apart on price before the FA period opens.
We'd be better off just asking his team what dollar amount it will take to sign him and then structure his contract favorably - even just handing him a blank check would likely result in a better cap situation than tagging him a second time this year.
The team poised to make a move is Washington. They have the money to go get a QB if one is free.
You know why. Because a team that went 33-15 the last three years deserves some more slack.
It's not like they went 15-33...
Let's get real here - Abrams works for Mara. He's not especially great at what he does, but he's not going to actually face a moment of reckoning while JM is calling the shots.
It should say something like..if nfl 2021 calender started today, the Giants would be over.....
2nd, the Giants are doing a great job with the cap and front loading contracts.....
Most FA contract typically are back loaded for example...24 mil in bonus, 1st year salary is 150k, 2nd year 7 million, 3rd year 10 mil....so cap hit is 8mil in 1st year, 15 in 2nd and 18 in 3rd.
This past year with Blake and Bradberry....the Giants did not back load but front/flat contract....with a cap hit of 10 mil every year.
3rd the Giants are in great shape cap wise....2022 should a very good year...for Giants. The Giants wanted to use all their 2020 cap....so they went right to the limit...which was pushed over due to escalation....no biggie. This is a very conservative approach which is easily resolve....
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his keep.
Let's get real here - Abrams works for Mara. He's not especially great at what he does, but he's not going to actually face a moment of reckoning while JM is calling the shots.
Stupid take. What has JM got to do with Abrams besides signing his check?
Abrams has done a very good job managing the cap.
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In comment 15130316 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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his keep.
Let's get real here - Abrams works for Mara. He's not especially great at what he does, but he's not going to actually face a moment of reckoning while JM is calling the shots.
Stupid take. What has JM got to do with Abrams besides signing his check?
Abrams has done a very good job managing the cap.
You can keep repeating that as often as you'd like, but it's not actually accurate. Abrams has done a satisfactory job. Adequate at best.
How do you build a team by cutting everyone? Carter may or may not be an below average starter, but he makes for excellent depth! You cut him, and he will have to be replaced with a higher priced free agent.
You can't build a team by coming in and just cutting everyone on the thought that they must all be losers, or else you would not have lost so many games..... Well, you can do that. And Gettleman kind of did do that, which is why the rebuild here has been so long and ineffective. The front office should be looking to upgrade talent everywhere on the field, so long as they can fit the players under the cap. Let training camp sort it all out.
Because we aren't an expensive team. Look at the projected cap health in the next few years. It is very good.
The better question is asking why there's spin making it sound like we are in a poor cap situation and acting like all teams aren't making multiple moves due to the cap every year.
Teams - both good and bad have several decisions to make every season on cuts and restructures. We are actually on the lower end of that this year - which is where a team that is young and rebuilding should be.
I really do think a lot of you would rather have the team $80M below the cap and trumpet it as good cap management.
Giants arguably need to upgrade about 4 starters on the Offense and probably 3-4 on the Defense. That many will take far too long to find via the Draft therefore the Giants still need to remain pretty active in Free Agency in my opinion. And that means clearing out a lot of space off the current roster. The roster that, while showed improvement in 2020, still managed to lose 10 games fairly easily.
You often hear that you don't get better by cutting your good players. But exactly how many good players do you think we have on this 6-10 team? The four teams playing on Sunday to go to the Super Bowl won 14, 13, 13 and 11 games. The Giants have no where near enough.
They will go from having $50M in dead money this year to only about $10M next year. They are $5M under the cap now. They are paying Teddy Bridgewater $21M a year and really can't cut him this season.
They will have to decide whether or not to restructure Kawann Short - who will make $21M next year and is 32 years old. Taylor Moton and Curtis Samuel will not be able to be retained.
But with all that being said - the Panthers are in the middle of the pack in relation to the cap. Very similar decisions to make and they are a team with a similar record and a mediocre QB.
The doom and gloom over us in relation to the rest of the teams isn't bad. If the salary cap stays at $175 million, the Saints will have to cut more than $90 million worth of space to even start the league year. That's the direst situation, but the Eagles (nearly $70 million), Falcons ($37 million), Steelers ($30 million), Packers ($24 million), Rams ($24 million), and Chiefs ($23 million) are also substantially over the cap already.
One way the Giants can get a bit creative, create some savings and maybe even upgrade the Oline is adding an experienced Center to take over for Gates. And then use Gates' versatility and move him to RG and displace Zeitler and his expensive salary.
Easton has had some concussion issues this year so that is a concern but might be worth the risk.
Giants arguably need to upgrade about 4 starters on the Offense and probably 3-4 on the Defense. That many will take far too long to find via the Draft therefore the Giants still need to remain pretty active in Free Agency in my opinion. And that means clearing out a lot of space off the current roster. The roster that, while showed improvement in 2020, still managed to lose 10 games fairly easily.
You often hear that you don't get better by cutting your good players. But exactly how many good players do you think we have on this 6-10 team? The four teams playing on Sunday to go to the Super Bowl won 14, 13, 13 and 11 games. The Giants have no where near enough.
+1, and that is the crux of their problems in a nutshell, a lack of talent. Even their best players have much to prove on an NFL field.
Here are the exact figures...
Giants Searching for New Offensive Line Coach; Sign Defensive End - ( New Window )
One way the Giants can get a bit creative, create some savings and maybe even upgrade the Oline is adding an experienced Center to take over for Gates. And then use Gates' versatility and move him to RG and displace Zeitler and his expensive salary.
Easton has had some concussion issues this year so that is a concern but might be worth the risk.
Depending on what the cap actually ends up being, the Saints could really really struggle to get under the cap.
Over the cap has them having to cut/retire Brees, Sanders, Jenkins, Easton, Brown, Alexander then trade Lattimore and restructure/extend Jordan, Thomas, Armstead, Peat and Hill. And all that will get them just about under the cap, but won't create room for the draft class and will leave them with about 30 players under contract so they'd probably need around another $15 million at least.
Also not resigning our most dominating lineman is a joke. BTW how much better would he be if we had a legit edge rusher?
Finally EE is so frustrating to watch but with the needs we have to me TE is not a priority. WR, Edge Rusher and Corner are much more important
The biggest issue with making some kind of move with Zeitler is that Right Tackle is a bigger concern imv. And it might be best to not have an entire new right side of the line and keep a veteran like Zeitler in place another season.
However, as noted above, almost every starting position should still be reviewed for upgrade.
2. All my other reasons are less significant.
And left guard is still not "officially" solved just because we saw improvement under LeMieux. Remember how we were all fooled by 5th round pick Connelly's production his rookie year. I thought he was going to be a mainstay for years. And Slayton is another late round pick who couldn't come close to duplicating his rookie year success, although hopefully that was merely due to injuries and we can expect better production from him in the future.
p.s.--I'm actually quite hopeful regarding LeMieux but the jury is definitely still out.
The Giants are in the driver’s seat with Zeitler. No roster bonus and no guaranteed salary. If they find an upgrade in UFA or the draft they can act, and cut or trade Zeitler. If not keep or restructure.
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more than a cap casualty at this time, just don't see them letting him go and giving the spot to WH or SL. They need to draft another interior OL and potentially a RT to keep pushing Peart, et al.
+1
And left guard is still not "officially" solved just because we saw improvement under LeMieux. Remember how we were all fooled by 5th round pick Connelly's production his rookie year. I thought he was going to be a mainstay for years. And Slayton is another late round pick who couldn't come close to duplicating his rookie year success, although hopefully that was merely due to injuries and we can expect better production from him in the future.
p.s.--I'm actually quite hopeful regarding LeMieux but the jury is definitely still out.
Agreed, it's why I mentioned needing another interior OL. While the unit looked somewhat improved, it still ranked at the bottom of the NFL. No time to rest on laurels.
The Will Hernandez situation is really a body blow if he cannot turn his game around and get back onto that line as a starter. Lemieux has plenty to develop in pass blocking so expect more growing pains sophomore year. Zeitler's play is declining.
Absolutely could use another Guard/Center type in 2021.
Really? DG is all about evaluation and grade?
It's a hell of a coincidence that he has - just like the Giants in general have, including Reese's tenure - somehow lucked into having the top guy on his board match the top need that nearly everyone predicted going into each draft.
Barkley was a notable exception, but even that one was broadly telegraphed by DG's adulation as the draft approached (and it wasn't like RB wasn't a significant need that year with Darkwa and Gallman as the incumbents). The Giants don't actually subscribe to BPA in the first round no matter how much they pay lip service to the idea.
They absolutely draft for need, which is largely why we've been cellar-dwellars for more than half a decade.