But Sacramento has given up the most points in the league (gave up 130+ pts three times, gave up 144 to the Raptors). They want to run and the Knicks want to slow things down. The team that imposes it's will on that end will likely win.
RE: Gonna be tough for the Knicks on the back to back
But Sacramento has given up the most points in the league (gave up 130+ pts three times, gave up 144 to the Raptors). They want to run and the Knicks want to slow things down. The team that imposes it's will on that end will likely win.
The West just doesnt play defense, they want to run and get up as many shots as possible
easily negated by a team that plays smart defense.
Another part of it is a team like Sacramento likes to chuck up shot after shot as quickly as possible. Unless they are falling in at a good clip the Knicks have a huge advantage on the boards. The Kicks are 5th in the NBA in rebounding and the Kings are 29th.
Get an Up and Close Look At Who Knicks Passed Up To Take Toppin
Getting their first look at Halliburton. I wanted them to take Halliburton when their turn came up but they were smitten with Toppin from the beginning and there was no way they were gonna pass him up once Cleveland did. Toppin may be what they hoped one day but Halliburton would have instantly solved their point guard problem. Hopefully Quickley becomes their true point guard they've been missing for so long
The next two games (Fox and DL) I want to beat them sooooo bad about their comments on the Knicks. I want to shove them right up their ass! I want to win them like I wasn’t to beat Boston and the Nets!
Some of the best posters on here have concluded he is a stiff and are ready to dump him ... at age 20. ... focusing only on his bad attributes.
There are only a handful of players in the NBA his age who will even have one game all season like he had last night (and he’s had a few already in his young career). It’d be a mistake to think he’s anywhere near a finished product. Look at comps like DeRozan ... everyone struggles at his age. He’s got skills to build on and a work ethic, let’s give him time to grow.
saying RJB will be a good NBA player for a long time even if he basically stays right where he is right now. HE's a good defender, rebounder and passer for a wing and he can score 18-20 every night, rather easily.
I think fans see this slower more physical player and forget that RJB is NOT an athletic speedy guard. He's not that player. HE's more the tough, physical type that will be a winning player because he plays fucking defense.
We are way to quick to judge these young players. What's the rush.
Small sample size but this is the trend we want to see
Getting their first look at Halliburton. I wanted them to take Halliburton when their turn came up but they were smitten with Toppin from the beginning and there was no way they were gonna pass him up once Cleveland did. Toppin may be what they hoped one day but Halliburton would have instantly solved their point guard problem. Hopefully Quickley becomes their true point guard they've been missing for so long
He is not a Point Guard, he is playing well but he is not a point guard, he is playong off the ball..
He is a ball mover but he is not going to get into the paint and create for his teammmates, he is Frank with a legit jump shot..
There were 57 fouls called and 80 free throws taken. In a 48-minute game, that's well more than one foul called per minute, and of course doesn't include all the other stoppages. Within one 13-second span of the third quarter, there were 4 fouls and one technical foul called.
Also, the refs acknowledged that they ejected Draymond Green for yelling at an official when in fact he was yelling at a teammate.
The next two games (Fox and DL) I want to beat them sooooo bad about their comments on the Knicks. I want to shove them right up their ass! I want to win them like I wasn’t to beat Boston and the Nets!
I’m not sure what you’re referring to about Lillard but didn’t Fox just make a joke about their poor lottery luck? He’s not wrong. Their luck has been awful.
A 28% career 3 point shooter — shot less than 10% from 3 his second season. But has other good, winning attributes. Not gonna carry a team to a title, but a good solid building block. That’s RJ’s trajectory, I think.
RE: RE: Get an Up and Close Look At Who Knicks Passed Up To Take Toppin
Getting their first look at Halliburton. I wanted them to take Halliburton when their turn came up but they were smitten with Toppin from the beginning and there was no way they were gonna pass him up once Cleveland did. Toppin may be what they hoped one day but Halliburton would have instantly solved their point guard problem. Hopefully Quickley becomes their true point guard they've been missing for so long
He is not a Point Guard, he is playing well but he is not a point guard, he is playong off the ball..
He is a ball mover but he is not going to get into the paint and create for his teammmates, he is Frank with a legit jump shot..
and dont get me wrong he is playing well..
He's a MUCH smarter offensive player than Frank. He has a really great feel for how to play complimentary basketball at an early stage. About half the time on offense, Frank is the basketball equivalent of Ricky Bobby "I don't know what to do with my hands".
There's a legit question of Halliburton's ceiling. It may not be very high. But the early returns are he may already be at his floor, which is a guy that's gonna play in the league for years and makes plays that helps win ball games.
is a really nice improvement so far. If he can end up over 70% for the season that would almost be a 10 point improvement. Good stuff.
Nice to see him hit some 3 pointers as well. That would really make him a complete player if he can consistenly do that. Not just a guy who has to drive to the basket to score
A 28% career 3 point shooter — shot less than 10% from 3 his second season. But has other good, winning attributes. Not gonna carry a team to a title, but a good solid building block. That’s RJ’s trajectory, I think.
DeRozan a different player, quicker, but didn’t crack 5 rebounds per game until his 5th season. RJ already at 7.5rpg. Different games but my point being, continually harping on his weaknesses maybe obscures his strengths — not many 20 year olds are putting up offensive games like last night historically, especially on a defensive minded team like the Knicks (no. 1 in NBA in scoring defense).
RE: RE: RE: Get an Up and Close Look At Who Knicks Passed Up To Take Toppin
Getting their first look at Halliburton. I wanted them to take Halliburton when their turn came up but they were smitten with Toppin from the beginning and there was no way they were gonna pass him up once Cleveland did. Toppin may be what they hoped one day but Halliburton would have instantly solved their point guard problem. Hopefully Quickley becomes their true point guard they've been missing for so long
He is not a Point Guard, he is playing well but he is not a point guard, he is playong off the ball..
He is a ball mover but he is not going to get into the paint and create for his teammmates, he is Frank with a legit jump shot..
and dont get me wrong he is playing well..
He's a MUCH smarter offensive player than Frank. He has a really great feel for how to play complimentary basketball at an early stage. About half the time on offense, Frank is the basketball equivalent of Ricky Bobby "I don't know what to do with my hands".
There's a legit question of Halliburton's ceiling. It may not be very high. But the early returns are he may already be at his floor, which is a guy that's gonna play in the league for years and makes plays that helps win ball games.
And thats fine, but it doesnt change the fact he is not a point guard, he is not solving the point guard problem for the Knicks
A 28% career 3 point shooter — shot less than 10% from 3 his second season. But has other good, winning attributes. Not gonna carry a team to a title, but a good solid building block. That’s RJ’s trajectory, I think.
DeRozan a different player, quicker, but didn’t crack 5 rebounds per game until his 5th season. RJ already at 7.5rpg. Different games but my point being, continually harping on his weaknesses maybe obscures his strengths — not many 20 year olds are putting up offensive games like last night historically, especially on a defensive minded team like the Knicks (no. 1 in NBA in scoring defense).
I like the DeRozan comp. There's also some Paul Pierce to his game although I don't think he'll ever shoot the 3 ball as well as Pierce did.
Which is also why I thought he'd be a good fit next to RJ (and now Randle, whom I totally hoped they were gonna trade). And also why he's a good fit with Fox and Hield because he's really a combo guard.
RE: agree there. He's not a classic pure PG at all.
Which is also why I thought he'd be a good fit next to RJ (and now Randle, whom I totally hoped they were gonna trade). And also why he's a good fit with Fox and Hield because he's really a combo guard.
Knicks need a point guard who can shoot but alao a guy who can get into the lane and finsih and create..
RE: Small sample size but this is the trend we want to see
With the amount of minutes played I would expect the rebounds to he higher and even the assists. However, what matters is the percentages. Hopefully he can keep that up.
Payton didn't even bother me that much. RJ played with a ton of confidence, Mitch took over in the second half, Randle was Randle, Quickley hit a big three, Obi had a couple highlight reel dunks - good times all around.
I'm not gonna turn Haliburton into Donovan Mitchell just yet when it comes to the ones who got away, but yes he'd be a better fit for this roster at the moment. We'll see how it plays out.
else see this past draft of Obi-Quickley the same as Knox-Robinson?
Point being is we drafted the better player with the 2nd pick?
Still early, but I think Quickley will have a better career.
Still very early on Obi ... that injury set him back and he’s still getting his sea legs ... with a demanding defense minded coach I bet his head is spinning. He was effective from 3 at Dayton and think that’s gonna come.
else see this past draft of Obi-Quickley the same as Knox-Robinson?
Yep it could definitely turn out that way. I brought that up a few times last year - all the draft experts were saying the talent was pretty even throughout the first round, so I figured we might take a better player with the Clippers pick than the lottery pick. It's really no big deal - just pretend Mitch was the lottery pick and Knox was the second rounder. Same thing may happen again this year with the Mavs pick or the Detroit second rounder.
I killed the guy earlier in the season but Barrett has been great during this stretch. Just shows you the up and downs of a young player and the patience it takes. One thing you never doubt about Barrett is his attitude and competitiveness which you see every game.
Thibs having this team 8-8 is fantastic. This group truly seems like a cohesive unit. It's really fun having a Knicks team that is fun to watch.
Almost a 1/4 through the year and Randle is a clear all star and Knicks are tied for 6th in the East...
problem I have with Obi is that there's no clear path to playing time with Randle presumably locked into the starting PF role.
Jon, what’s your thinking on this? If Thibs wants to roll out a big defensive minded team, what’s the downside to a Mitch-Obi-Randle front line ... especially as Obi gets his legs under him and extends his range? I don’t watch as much NBA as some of you gentlemen, and don’t understand the positional dilemma. I see 30 rebounds out of that grouping and two vertical challengers in Mitch and Obi to run at 3s and protect the rim. Give up some stuff, but gain some stuff too. It’s very possible that I have an anachronistic view of things lol, and appreciate understanding.
problem I have with Obi is that there's no clear path to playing time with Randle presumably locked into the starting PF role.
Jon, what’s your thinking on this? If Thibs wants to roll out a big defensive minded team, what’s the downside to a Mitch-Obi-Randle front line ... especially as Obi gets his legs under him and extends his range? I don’t watch as much NBA as some of you gentlemen, and don’t understand the positional dilemma. I see 30 rebounds out of that grouping and two vertical challengers in Mitch and Obi to run at 3s and protect the rim. Give up some stuff, but gain some stuff too. It’s very possible that I have an anachronistic view of things lol, and appreciate understanding.
I think eventually when Thibs trusts Obi defemsively we will start to see Obi and Randle together in small ball..
Last night they probably could of done it but for right npw i dont think Thibs trusts it jist yet..
and should play the 3. He's pretty positionally limited to the 4 imo, as is Randle.
I think it’s too early to put him in a box. I’m sure his head is swimming in his adjustment to the NBA and finally learning to play D, with a hard ass coach.
But beyond that, I guess I don’t understand the need to classify guys as 3s and 4s and say we need one of each — it’s not baseball, it’s a sport of positional fluidity and playing to your own strengths. Maybe Obi can’t guard a 3, but that’s goes the other way too. And isn’t Randle playing more like a 3 anyway the way he’s handling the ball and distributing? Anyway, it’s fun to watch Thibs trying to piece this all together.
often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
Obi can't guard the 3, he struggles guarding the 4.
He is not very fluid defensively almost awkward.
He is going to need a lot of work to get to be a decent defender.
I am surprised all the so called experts said he was the most NBA ready.
I don't see it at all, he is struggles to find the flow of the game and seems out of position a lot.
Obviously I am not saying after a handful of games he is a bust or anything but he is more of a work in progress than I expected after hearing the draft experts talking.
I am all for keeping Randle for next year.
Add 2 more first rounders in next year.
Get Frank and DSJ off the books.
Let OBI develop slowly.
often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
"burst" is good...but does he have quick enough feet to defend on the perimeter? Not saying he's Kanter, but he was dinged for his defense coming out of college for a reason.
often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
"burst" is good...but does he have quick enough feet to defend on the perimeter? Not saying he's Kanter, but he was dinged for his defense coming out of college for a reason.
Considering that pretty much every scouting report I’ve read agrees with you as well, it’s possible/likely I’m talking out my ass. The fog of optimism I guess.
is whether his feet are permanently stuck in mud, or he can learn much better technique based upon his athleticism. To be sure, a bunch of scouts criticized him defensive potential, but another group talked about him in top-3 all-rookie terms. All I know is that, hip stifness notwithstanding, he is a HUGE leaper for his size and weight. And yes, he can shoot. Can he learn to defend competently? Too me, his athleticism suggests "yes," and Thibs will help.
As far as missing Haliburton to take him, OF COURSE there is going to be a player or two after a team's pick that ends up better than that team's pick. It's simple probability. On the other hand, if they took Halliburton, they probably would have gone much bigger with the seconmd pick, and my faith in Quickly is enormous as a future starting pg who can run a team but also score in the 18-20 point range. How many teams are talking about Quickly in terms of "the player they passed up to pick ____?" A lot mote teams than are worrying about missing Halliburton, I would wager. The chances of any team doing better than Obi plus Quickly with the picks they had is pretty tiny, imo.
Some of the best posters on here have concluded he is a stiff and are ready to dump him ... at age 20. ... focusing only on his bad attributes.
There are only a handful of players in the NBA his age who will even have one game all season like he had last night (and he’s had a few already in his young career). It’d be a mistake to think he’s anywhere near a finished product. Look at comps like DeRozan ... everyone struggles at his age. He’s got skills to build on and a work ethic, let’s give him time to grow.
I had been very down on Barrett and with damn good reason. He had been terrible!!! He shot 32% last year from three. This year, he is shooting 25% thpugh with more improvement in the last week Just consider how bad this is: after going 3/3 on opening night, he went 0 for 6,4,3 and 8 in the next four games. I dont think Ive ever been able to recite a stat line like that! Tjen okay, he goes 4/5 against Indy which is wonderful. But then, in the next 6, he goes 3/25 from behind the arc. Tjat is DREADFUL for a 2/3 that has no inside game.
All of a sudden, things changed because he went to the bucket more since the 15th and taking less 3s and with the exception of the one 0fer he had against Orlando, he has shot over 50% from 3 while taking no more than 4 per game. He has taken better shots and his FG% has been over 45 in the last 5 games where as it had been at below 30 for much of the season.
So if I was down on him, its because you cant have a SG/SF shooting @40% clip when they arent making 3s and plays terrible D. The last week he is a completely different player and what we were supposed to be getting.
cause nobody really does that anymore, lol. And You completely ignore his ability to get and finish at the basket. That is a skill that im not sure why his detractors dont give him credit for. ANd its a skill he has shown since he was a rookie. Last year people were worried that because he was so good at getting to the basket and therefor getting fouled that he would have to be a better free throw shooter. So its not like he just started getting to the basket more.
That's what you want to see. If he does, I really believe consistency will come with him being so young. You can't give up on these young guys who show the capability of being able to play organized, professional basketball.
Guys like Frank, never showed a god damn thing in his 4 years here offensively. What you see is what you get with him. A black hole who can play average to above average defense.
Knox flashed in the summer league. I think he's finding his role with Thibs as a spot up 3pt shooter.
Even if Frank showed flashes, it wouldn't matter much compared to RJ.
Frank is an iron man, aside from his talent. Frank is peanut brittle. If there were a chance of Frank staying healthy for more than a week running, we would have seen it by now. I actually think he WOULD HAVE shown flashes, if her were ever able to put in a couple of months straght. RJ, by contrast, plays his 42 minutes and then gets to practice early the next day.
This is why I also think he will end up a good 3-point shooter. A gym rat with a greaat bidy and a nice stroke will learn to shoot. Will he be great? Probably not. He doesn't need to be great, just good enough that defenders can't lay off and block his drives.
cause nobody really does that anymore, lol. And You completely ignore his ability to get and finish at the basket. That is a skill that im not sure why his detractors dont give him credit for. ANd its a skill he has shown since he was a rookie. Last year people were worried that because he was so good at getting to the basket and therefor getting fouled that he would have to be a better free throw shooter. So its not like he just started getting to the basket more.
By inside game I am referring to any offense that happens in the paint. Dribble drive and dish offs are what I am referring to. Prior to a couple games ago, his finishing ability was for shit! He has been hesitant and timid in finishing until the last few games. He has been MUCH better and could still improve. If he was aggressive getting to the hole on the drive as Payton, he would average over 20 and shoot at 46 %.
I am also aware that the post up game is largely abandoned. But because of that, defenders who play SG/SF arent very good at defending it any more. The benefit of posting up when you have RJs leaping ability and range is that a team cant just burn a smaller defender on him because he wont do it. Once we get better at shooting 3s, it also draws double teams. The idea that it is gone is simply not true. Last night the Warriors couldnt hit 3s at all and thats why we won. If everybody is not knocking 3s, having a SG who can get points and draw fpuls in the paint is HUGE. LeBron posts smaller defenders. So does Kawhi.
Its absurd to completely abandon a post game like we have the 15 footer.
fan since the mid-1950"s when the entire team showed up at my grade school to hold a practice-- led by their stars Carl Braun and Harry Gallitan. Finally, after being in the wilderness for the last 15 or so years, they are really fun to watch again. The youngsters are incrrediby talented and remind me of the late 1960's teams with young guys like Clyde, Bradley, and Willis. Guys, good things are about to happen.
The West just doesnt play defense, they want to run and get up as many shots as possible
Another part of it is a team like Sacramento likes to chuck up shot after shot as quickly as possible. Unless they are falling in at a good clip the Knicks have a huge advantage on the boards. The Kicks are 5th in the NBA in rebounding and the Kings are 29th.
There are only a handful of players in the NBA his age who will even have one game all season like he had last night (and he’s had a few already in his young career). It’d be a mistake to think he’s anywhere near a finished product. Look at comps like DeRozan ... everyone struggles at his age. He’s got skills to build on and a work ethic, let’s give him time to grow.
I think fans see this slower more physical player and forget that RJB is NOT an athletic speedy guard. He's not that player. HE's more the tough, physical type that will be a winning player because he plays fucking defense.
We are way to quick to judge these young players. What's the rush.
He is not a Point Guard, he is playing well but he is not a point guard, he is playong off the ball..
He is a ball mover but he is not going to get into the paint and create for his teammmates, he is Frank with a legit jump shot..
and dont get me wrong he is playing well..
Also, the refs acknowledged that they ejected Draymond Green for yelling at an official when in fact he was yelling at a teammate.
I'm glad there were no paying customers at the game because they would have deserved their money back.
Steve Kerr: Officials admit Draymond Green's ejection for yelling at James Wiseman was mistake - ( New Window )
I’m not sure what you’re referring to about Lillard but didn’t Fox just make a joke about their poor lottery luck? He’s not wrong. Their luck has been awful.
Quote:
Getting their first look at Halliburton. I wanted them to take Halliburton when their turn came up but they were smitten with Toppin from the beginning and there was no way they were gonna pass him up once Cleveland did. Toppin may be what they hoped one day but Halliburton would have instantly solved their point guard problem. Hopefully Quickley becomes their true point guard they've been missing for so long
He is not a Point Guard, he is playing well but he is not a point guard, he is playong off the ball..
He is a ball mover but he is not going to get into the paint and create for his teammmates, he is Frank with a legit jump shot..
and dont get me wrong he is playing well..
He's a MUCH smarter offensive player than Frank. He has a really great feel for how to play complimentary basketball at an early stage. About half the time on offense, Frank is the basketball equivalent of Ricky Bobby "I don't know what to do with my hands".
There's a legit question of Halliburton's ceiling. It may not be very high. But the early returns are he may already be at his floor, which is a guy that's gonna play in the league for years and makes plays that helps win ball games.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to about Lillard
He said something about how the Knicks start was a mirage and the real Knicks, i.e. the loser Knicks, would re-emerge soon.
Nice to see him hit some 3 pointers as well. That would really make him a complete player if he can consistenly do that. Not just a guy who has to drive to the basket to score
DeRozan a different player, quicker, but didn’t crack 5 rebounds per game until his 5th season. RJ already at 7.5rpg. Different games but my point being, continually harping on his weaknesses maybe obscures his strengths — not many 20 year olds are putting up offensive games like last night historically, especially on a defensive minded team like the Knicks (no. 1 in NBA in scoring defense).
Quote:
In comment 15130543 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
Getting their first look at Halliburton. I wanted them to take Halliburton when their turn came up but they were smitten with Toppin from the beginning and there was no way they were gonna pass him up once Cleveland did. Toppin may be what they hoped one day but Halliburton would have instantly solved their point guard problem. Hopefully Quickley becomes their true point guard they've been missing for so long
He is not a Point Guard, he is playing well but he is not a point guard, he is playong off the ball..
He is a ball mover but he is not going to get into the paint and create for his teammmates, he is Frank with a legit jump shot..
and dont get me wrong he is playing well..
He's a MUCH smarter offensive player than Frank. He has a really great feel for how to play complimentary basketball at an early stage. About half the time on offense, Frank is the basketball equivalent of Ricky Bobby "I don't know what to do with my hands".
There's a legit question of Halliburton's ceiling. It may not be very high. But the early returns are he may already be at his floor, which is a guy that's gonna play in the league for years and makes plays that helps win ball games.
And thats fine, but it doesnt change the fact he is not a point guard, he is not solving the point guard problem for the Knicks
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A 28% career 3 point shooter — shot less than 10% from 3 his second season. But has other good, winning attributes. Not gonna carry a team to a title, but a good solid building block. That’s RJ’s trajectory, I think.
DeRozan a different player, quicker, but didn’t crack 5 rebounds per game until his 5th season. RJ already at 7.5rpg. Different games but my point being, continually harping on his weaknesses maybe obscures his strengths — not many 20 year olds are putting up offensive games like last night historically, especially on a defensive minded team like the Knicks (no. 1 in NBA in scoring defense).
I like the DeRozan comp. There's also some Paul Pierce to his game although I don't think he'll ever shoot the 3 ball as well as Pierce did.
Knicks need a point guard who can shoot but alao a guy who can get into the lane and finsih and create..
With the amount of minutes played I would expect the rebounds to he higher and even the assists. However, what matters is the percentages. Hopefully he can keep that up.
I'm not gonna turn Haliburton into Donovan Mitchell just yet when it comes to the ones who got away, but yes he'd be a better fit for this roster at the moment. We'll see how it plays out.
@ESPNNBA
The Knicks have the No. 1 defense in the NBA Eyes
New York is holding teams to 102.8 PPG on just 43% shooting from the field. Both of which lead the league
The Knicks? #1? Defense?
Point being is we drafted the better player with the 2nd pick?
Still early, but I think Quickley will have a better career.
@ESPNNBA
The Knicks have the No. 1 defense in the NBA Eyes
New York is holding teams to 102.8 PPG on just 43% shooting from the field. Both of which lead the league
The Knicks? #1? Defense?
Also dead last in scoring ... but no doubt that Thibs is making his mark.
Point being is we drafted the better player with the 2nd pick?
Still early, but I think Quickley will have a better career.
Still very early on Obi ... that injury set him back and he’s still getting his sea legs ... with a demanding defense minded coach I bet his head is spinning. He was effective from 3 at Dayton and think that’s gonna come.
Yep it could definitely turn out that way. I brought that up a few times last year - all the draft experts were saying the talent was pretty even throughout the first round, so I figured we might take a better player with the Clippers pick than the lottery pick. It's really no big deal - just pretend Mitch was the lottery pick and Knox was the second rounder. Same thing may happen again this year with the Mavs pick or the Detroit second rounder.
Thibs having this team 8-8 is fantastic. This group truly seems like a cohesive unit. It's really fun having a Knicks team that is fun to watch.
Almost a 1/4 through the year and Randle is a clear all star and Knicks are tied for 6th in the East...
Jon, what’s your thinking on this? If Thibs wants to roll out a big defensive minded team, what’s the downside to a Mitch-Obi-Randle front line ... especially as Obi gets his legs under him and extends his range? I don’t watch as much NBA as some of you gentlemen, and don’t understand the positional dilemma. I see 30 rebounds out of that grouping and two vertical challengers in Mitch and Obi to run at 3s and protect the rim. Give up some stuff, but gain some stuff too. It’s very possible that I have an anachronistic view of things lol, and appreciate understanding.
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problem I have with Obi is that there's no clear path to playing time with Randle presumably locked into the starting PF role.
Jon, what’s your thinking on this? If Thibs wants to roll out a big defensive minded team, what’s the downside to a Mitch-Obi-Randle front line ... especially as Obi gets his legs under him and extends his range? I don’t watch as much NBA as some of you gentlemen, and don’t understand the positional dilemma. I see 30 rebounds out of that grouping and two vertical challengers in Mitch and Obi to run at 3s and protect the rim. Give up some stuff, but gain some stuff too. It’s very possible that I have an anachronistic view of things lol, and appreciate understanding.
I think eventually when Thibs trusts Obi defemsively we will start to see Obi and Randle together in small ball..
Last night they probably could of done it but for right npw i dont think Thibs trusts it jist yet..
I think it’s too early to put him in a box. I’m sure his head is swimming in his adjustment to the NBA and finally learning to play D, with a hard ass coach.
But beyond that, I guess I don’t understand the need to classify guys as 3s and 4s and say we need one of each — it’s not baseball, it’s a sport of positional fluidity and playing to your own strengths. Maybe Obi can’t guard a 3, but that’s goes the other way too. And isn’t Randle playing more like a 3 anyway the way he’s handling the ball and distributing? Anyway, it’s fun to watch Thibs trying to piece this all together.
@ESPNNBA
New York is holding teams to 102.8 PPG on just 43% shooting from the field. Both of which lead the league
And the Kings are last in the league in both those categories. Although the Knicks are also the lowest-scoring team in the league, so there's that.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
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often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
Obi can't guard the 3, he struggles guarding the 4.
He is not very fluid defensively almost awkward.
He is going to need a lot of work to get to be a decent defender.
I am surprised all the so called experts said he was the most NBA ready.
I don't see it at all, he is struggles to find the flow of the game and seems out of position a lot.
Obviously I am not saying after a handful of games he is a bust or anything but he is more of a work in progress than I expected after hearing the draft experts talking.
I am all for keeping Randle for next year.
Add 2 more first rounders in next year.
Get Frank and DSJ off the books.
Let OBI develop slowly.
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often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
"burst" is good...but does he have quick enough feet to defend on the perimeter? Not saying he's Kanter, but he was dinged for his defense coming out of college for a reason.
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In comment 15130798 Enzo said:
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often comes down to who you can guard...and in today's NBA you have to typically have to defend out to 30 feet. Randle and Obi together for long stretches would likely struggle against ball handling/stretch bigs/wings. I'm basing this purely on Obi's scouting reports out of college. Can't tell much based on the 72 mins he's played as a pro.
I think it’s possible that Obi might struggle offensively for a while as he adjusts to playing Thibs level defense. But he showed he can shoot in college. I get the tight hips thing, but also see a guy with the burst to challenge on the perimeter. And I’d also just say, the stretch guys he’ll be guarding, they have to guard him and his ability to elevate too ... give up something, get something.
"burst" is good...but does he have quick enough feet to defend on the perimeter? Not saying he's Kanter, but he was dinged for his defense coming out of college for a reason.
Considering that pretty much every scouting report I’ve read agrees with you as well, it’s possible/likely I’m talking out my ass. The fog of optimism I guess.
As far as missing Haliburton to take him, OF COURSE there is going to be a player or two after a team's pick that ends up better than that team's pick. It's simple probability. On the other hand, if they took Halliburton, they probably would have gone much bigger with the seconmd pick, and my faith in Quickly is enormous as a future starting pg who can run a team but also score in the 18-20 point range. How many teams are talking about Quickly in terms of "the player they passed up to pick ____?" A lot mote teams than are worrying about missing Halliburton, I would wager. The chances of any team doing better than Obi plus Quickly with the picks they had is pretty tiny, imo.
There are only a handful of players in the NBA his age who will even have one game all season like he had last night (and he’s had a few already in his young career). It’d be a mistake to think he’s anywhere near a finished product. Look at comps like DeRozan ... everyone struggles at his age. He’s got skills to build on and a work ethic, let’s give him time to grow.
I had been very down on Barrett and with damn good reason. He had been terrible!!! He shot 32% last year from three. This year, he is shooting 25% thpugh with more improvement in the last week Just consider how bad this is: after going 3/3 on opening night, he went 0 for 6,4,3 and 8 in the next four games. I dont think Ive ever been able to recite a stat line like that! Tjen okay, he goes 4/5 against Indy which is wonderful. But then, in the next 6, he goes 3/25 from behind the arc. Tjat is DREADFUL for a 2/3 that has no inside game.
All of a sudden, things changed because he went to the bucket more since the 15th and taking less 3s and with the exception of the one 0fer he had against Orlando, he has shot over 50% from 3 while taking no more than 4 per game. He has taken better shots and his FG% has been over 45 in the last 5 games where as it had been at below 30 for much of the season.
So if I was down on him, its because you cant have a SG/SF shooting @40% clip when they arent making 3s and plays terrible D. The last week he is a completely different player and what we were supposed to be getting.
Guys like Frank, never showed a god damn thing in his 4 years here offensively. What you see is what you get with him. A black hole who can play average to above average defense.
Knox flashed in the summer league. I think he's finding his role with Thibs as a spot up 3pt shooter.
This is why I also think he will end up a good 3-point shooter. A gym rat with a greaat bidy and a nice stroke will learn to shoot. Will he be great? Probably not. He doesn't need to be great, just good enough that defenders can't lay off and block his drives.
By inside game I am referring to any offense that happens in the paint. Dribble drive and dish offs are what I am referring to. Prior to a couple games ago, his finishing ability was for shit! He has been hesitant and timid in finishing until the last few games. He has been MUCH better and could still improve. If he was aggressive getting to the hole on the drive as Payton, he would average over 20 and shoot at 46 %.
I am also aware that the post up game is largely abandoned. But because of that, defenders who play SG/SF arent very good at defending it any more. The benefit of posting up when you have RJs leaping ability and range is that a team cant just burn a smaller defender on him because he wont do it. Once we get better at shooting 3s, it also draws double teams. The idea that it is gone is simply not true. Last night the Warriors couldnt hit 3s at all and thats why we won. If everybody is not knocking 3s, having a SG who can get points and draw fpuls in the paint is HUGE. LeBron posts smaller defenders. So does Kawhi.
Its absurd to completely abandon a post game like we have the 15 footer.