there is no decision. He's a developmental QB who the Giants hope can grow as the team around him grows.
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
My thoughts are in line with Dan Shonka's, I think DJ can be a mid-tier QB, good enough to win with, not quite good enough to lift the team when it is struggling. I also like McElroy's Jared Goff comp. A guy who, with the right pieces around him, can get you to the SB, as long as he doesn't turn the ball over.
there is no decision. He's a developmental QB who the Giants hope can grow as the team around him grows.
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
I saw a guy who too often held on to the ball too long, locked on to receivers, and too often showed poor pocket awareness.
I agree, there is no decision to make yet, which is what Schwartz is saying, but that time is coming.
...
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
why people so vehemently defend a QB who at best will be mid tier. Look at the AFC/NFC playoffs this season and let me know which teams are going places with mediocre QB play.
You need a stud QB to carry you to the promised land in the NFL and Jones aint it. Even in his first few years when he was struggling Eli had glimpses of something special with his 2 minute drills and clutch drives.
“I think Daniel Jones is gonna be what he is,’’ Shonka said. “He’s gonna be a middle-of-the-road starting quarterback in the NFL, work his way into the 15-20 range. He’ll be a piece, I don’t think he’ll ever be a star that’s gonna carry a team. He’s got to have guys like Saquon Barkley and the receivers around him and have the running game.
“I think he can be a really good game manager-type quarterback. What bothers me is he turns the ball over more than I remembered in college. Is he a turnover machine?”
When the WR talent is mediocre and the TE drops the ball a lot. Protection although improved still needs improving which should include have the same coaching staff in place. I guess the post needed to have an article.
My thoughts are in line with Dan Shonka's, I think DJ can be a mid-tier QB, good enough to win with, not quite good enough to lift the team when it is struggling. I also like McElroy's Jared Goff comp. A guy who, with the right pieces around him, can get you to the SB, as long as he doesn't turn the ball over.
Doesn’t seem like that evaluation is worthy of being the 6th overall pick in the 2019 draft. I’d be happy at this point if Jones becomes Goff. I don’t see it though.
he can become the guy. But lets give him one more year under this coaching staff to develop, with hopefully some upgraded offensive talent. Move on after next year if he can't prove he's the guy.
Is that he should get a third year to prove himself as other than a low to mid tier QB. Given the turnovers and production, it’s hard to make the case he’s even a mid tier QB.
If the production and turnovers remain the same, a new QB should be brought in for 2022 and the 5th year option should be declined.
I'm seeing what Jeremiah is seeing and the book isn't written yet
The breaking him down to build him back up comment is absolutely on point too. Unfortunately, many people here don't see that. I thought it was obvious what they were doing very early in the season, but I guess not. It's actually pretty common to do with second-year QBs. Judge is no fool and wants to build a guy that he can with a Superbowl with for a decade. The long-term goal here wasn't have him toss 20 plus TDS this year with a bunch of poor decisions thrown in.
The thought process as a rookie is you just let them rip to get accustomed to the speed of the game and in year 2 you work on making them a consistently good QB. Of course, we didn't have any fucking help around him so the TD numbers were low and the interception numbers higher than they should have been.
I feel like we see a combination of what we saw in year 1 and 2 by the end of next year. We still need to get this guy help, and it's so blindingly obvious they alluded to it in the post season presser.
This is a pretty good article spelling out a lot what I believe is the
1.) I think DJ is trying too hard. I think he wants to be the franchise QB so badly for the Giants and presses. I think the locker room and coaches love it for him - it makes it real hard to give up on this kid.
2) I think the Giants can win games with DJ. But I don't think he's the kind of guy that's going to make them a perennial Super Bowl contender
3.) I think Jared Goff is a great comp for him as a passer with the added bonus of better straight line speed
The real question then becomes - are you willing to pay DJ, Goff like money moving forward?
It appears that there are 3 realities at play here:
1. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a winning QB.
2. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a horrible QB.
3. For various reasons, this will not be the year to make a change at this position.
But his opinion isn’t any better than anyone else’s. He could be right, he could be wrong. I find anyone making any definitive pronouncements about Jones to be far more suspect than Jones himself. Yes, it’s time for Jones to show he is improving. It’s also time for the Giants to provide him even below average NFL talent (as opposed to crap NFL talent) on the offense. Let’s see him with something more than what we’ve seen so far and then make pronouncements that might actually have some basis.
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
there is no decision. He's a developmental QB who the Giants hope can grow as the team around him grows.
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
I saw a guy who too often held on to the ball too long, locked on to receivers, and too often showed poor pocket awareness.
I agree, there is no decision to make yet, which is what Schwartz is saying, but that time is coming.
all season long you saw those things? I didn't. I saw big problems early on but starting with the win against Philly I saw a more decisive QB.
My thoughts are in line with Dan Shonka's, I think DJ can be a mid-tier QB, good enough to win with, not quite good enough to lift the team when it is struggling. I also like McElroy's Jared Goff comp. A guy who, with the right pieces around him, can get you to the SB, as long as he doesn't turn the ball over.
Agree as well. The article is a decent piece and the comments made by NFL evaluators within it sound pretty damn fair on Jones.
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
1.) I think DJ is trying too hard. I think he wants to be the franchise QB so badly for the Giants and presses. I think the locker room and coaches love it for him - it makes it real hard to give up on this kid.
2) I think the Giants can win games with DJ. But I don't think he's the kind of guy that's going to make them a perennial Super Bowl contender
3.) I think Jared Goff is a great comp for him as a passer with the added bonus of better straight line speed
The real question then becomes - are you willing to pay DJ, Goff like money moving forward?
He's Goff with much better speed and doesn't fold under pressure. That's actually a pretty good QB and one worth a second contract. Goff's biggest issue is his pressure/non pressure splits are awful. No QB is good under pressure, but it's important you aren't sinking the team because generally that opens other things up.
Many on BBI will not like it because it doesn't absolve him of all blame for the offense's shortcomings, or close the book on him being a bust. But neither of those things is true anyway.
The challenge has been that the Giants have failed to put a competitive team on the field in years. The question is only is Jones part of that problem, or a result of that problem. This article, like many here have posted, seems to make year 3 make or break. But is it?
We will get a nice read on Jones if the WR, RB and offensive line is much improved, and Jones stays healthy all year. But how likely is it that all of those things happen in 2021?
I don't think 2021 is going to be this magic answer on Daniel Jones many are expecting it to be, either way.
why people so vehemently defend a QB who at best will be mid tier. Look at the AFC/NFC playoffs this season and let me know which teams are going places with mediocre QB play.
You need a stud QB to carry you to the promised land in the NFL and Jones aint it. Even in his first few years when he was struggling Eli had glimpses of something special with his 2 minute drills and clutch drives.
Well, because by your assessment and using just two years as your data point then Eli was destined to be mid tier at best after two years. After 3 years (04, 05, 06) people were outright saying Eli isn't a leader (Tiki) and can't win games on his own.
Anybody who uses 2020 as a barometer is nuts. Jones needs time and honestly better skill players. That isn't like saying oh he had Shockey, Tiki and Toomer and just needs more weapons- we are saying the SHIT show at WR this year, missing Barkley and having a team killer in EE sure the EFF didn't do Jones any favors.
Give him two years in the same system for christ sakes.
we've been down this road so many times now it's laughable. So many QBs who EVERYONE just KNEW were finished products. Fans are insistent on telling the future and for some reason feel compelled to do so before the body of work has yet to be a finished product. Fans also insist that they know more than the coaches know. You don't.
Save it. No one here, not any of the so called realists, not the optimists, no one here knows wtf Jones is.
We saw Eli make so many NYG and NFL fans look so fucking stupid and here we are again with some of the same fans writing the book on Jones. Yet Joe Judge, who has been coaching in the NFL for 10 years plus seems compelled to want to continue working with Jones. Why? It's not because he wants to be right. it's not because Jones doesn't rock the boat. it's not because Jones is from Duke. It's because Jones has talent and has displayed progression.
That's why I think he's got a shot to develop into a legit QB. I am not accepting shit. I am a fan who knows that players get better. Teams get better. Coaching matters.
You don't get to write a QB off every 20 games because you haven't seen enough star power or stats that fit into your nice little agenda. It doesn't work that way. Many QBs do in fact take time to develop. Most QBs do in fact need help. FACTS. Not horse shit logic.
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
You did. Literally your argument for sticking with him was that you "feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there." That's the most pathetic standard of evaluation I've heard on BBI...and I was here for the last 5 years of Eli's career when many of you were saying the same shit about him sucking b/c of everything and everyone else.
one for Jones, I'm not sure why we have to keep talking about it on a daily basis. He's either going to improve or not, the team will get better because of him or it will stay as is if he continues to play the way he does.
It appears that there are 3 realities at play here:
1. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a winning QB.
2. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a horrible QB.
3. For various reasons, this will not be the year to make a change at this position.
short and sweet and exactly right.
But don't forget, some here KNOW Jones won't be a good QB. Judge doesn't know, but Josh does.
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
You did. Literally your argument for sticking with him was that you "feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there." That's the most pathetic standard of evaluation I've heard on BBI...and I was here for the last 5 years of Eli's career when many of you were saying the same shit about him sucking b/c of everything and everyone else.
Josh- you clearly forget many (including Tiki) were blaming Eli for them not winning more (not having the leadership to do it) early on. Come on, be fair in your overall assessments.
It appears that there are 3 realities at play here:
1. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a winning QB.
2. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a horrible QB.
3. For various reasons, this will not be the year to make a change at this position.
short and sweet and exactly right.
But don't forget, some here KNOW Jones won't be a good QB. Judge doesn't know, but Josh does.
Save it.
Ummm....when and where did I say I know Jones won't be a good QB? All I said is that he has to take the next step this year and prove that he can be our true franchise QB otherwise it's time to move on. But again, keep making up nonsense!
i'm guilty of this myself sometimes, but you have a ridiculous ability to call things as facts that aren't facts but your opinion, things that have yet to happen are somehow entrenched in stone with you. I don't want to go down the list of your all time classics but come on man.
and they need to put some weapons around him, solidify the OL, find a tailback better than Gallman to help share the rushing load with SB. A respectable offense should help them contend in the division provided the defense doesn't take a step backwards.
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
You did. Literally your argument for sticking with him was that you "feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there." That's the most pathetic standard of evaluation I've heard on BBI...and I was here for the last 5 years of Eli's career when many of you were saying the same shit about him sucking b/c of everything and everyone else.
Josh- you clearly forget many (including Tiki) were blaming Eli for them not winning more (not having the leadership to do it) early on. Come on, be fair in your overall assessments.
Not at all...that's part of the reason I'm not ready to move on yet. But there was clearly not enough progress in year 2 and we absolutely have to see it in year 3. If he makes that leap then that's amazing and I'm all in. If he stays in neutral I'm ready to move on.
The NYG seem committed to upgrading the personnel on the offense. Part of that is getting back Barkley. How healthy his knee is next year is a separate issue. Jones will have some continuity as it appears Garrett is sticking around. My point is Jones will have no excuses if he has a poor season. And if he does, we’re essentially in the same boat as the Jets are this year with Darnold except the 2022 draft won’t have the quality of draft prospects at QB as the 2021 draft.
Jones is not shit. Not even close. I read that article yesterday. I agree with most of the takes. I think he has just under top 10 in the league potential. I wanted one of those "guys", maybe he can be, but I am not seeing that. It is is very fair to give him ALL of next year. Not the first 5 games, the whole year, to see how he develops. I will be rooting for him, you should too.
i'm guilty of this myself sometimes, but you have a ridiculous ability to call things as facts that aren't facts but your opinion, things that have yet to happen are somehow entrenched in stone with you. I don't want to go down the list of your all time classics but come on man.
What specifically are you talking about? What did I say was a fact that was my opinion?
I am shocked (not really) that some here don't see the potential in Jones. HE's put up numbers--granted I don't really care about 2019, but he did put up numbers. He's run for 80 yard sprints. He's run for TDs. His rushing numbers are near elite for QBs. He throws a pretty ball with near elite accuracy. He's even won division games this season, going 4-2. He's not the quick twitch athlete that we see in guys like Jackson but he can run the ball and he can throw the ball. He's got talent. Talent goes a long way in the NFL. Coaching and talent are nearly impossible to stop. I know we want instant results but there are factors that come into play. I didn't use the covid lack or prep time excuses for Judge and I won't use them for Jones but a first year HC implementing a new system with a 2nd year QB? Yeah, that's a factor.
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
But he’s going to be dependent on what’s around him. That’s normal. There’s only a handful of quarterbacks that can win and play really well independent of what’s around him.
Should be read and understood by many on BBI, because according to many here, finding a QB that can lift the play of those around them and carry the team is easy.
I am shocked (not really) that some here don't see the potential in Jones. HE's put up numbers--granted I don't really care about 2019, but he did put up numbers. He's run for 80 yard sprints. He's run for TDs. His rushing numbers are near elite for QBs. He throws a pretty ball with near elite accuracy. He's even won division games this season, going 4-2. He's not the quick twitch athlete that we see in guys like Jackson but he can run the ball and he can throw the ball. He's got talent. Talent goes a long way in the NFL. Coaching and talent are nearly impossible to stop. I know we want instant results but there are factors that come into play. I didn't use the covid lack or prep time excuses for Judge and I won't use them for Jones but a first year HC implementing a new system with a 2nd year QB? Yeah, that's a factor.
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
Enough with potential and hopes and dreams and unicorns and rainbows. PRODUCE and WIN GAMES or it's time to move on. That is literally only thing that matters. Not potential...WINS. And there is no position on the field that has a more direct impact on wins than the QB. I couldn't give a shit if he had more potential than Mahomes. If the potential doesn't result in this team actually winning again then it doesn't matter!
"if we are OK with a JAG we are accepting mediocrity"
"hoping that someone will become something they are not"
It's called developing a quarterback. Just because Jones isn't a star right now doesn't mean he won't be in the future. It doesn't mean he will be. But your ability to act like he can't get better is infuriating, you're the same as Terps when it comes to this shit
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
I saw a guy who too often held on to the ball too long, locked on to receivers, and too often showed poor pocket awareness.
I agree, there is no decision to make yet, which is what Schwartz is saying, but that time is coming.
...
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
You need a stud QB to carry you to the promised land in the NFL and Jones aint it. Even in his first few years when he was struggling Eli had glimpses of something special with his 2 minute drills and clutch drives.
“I think he can be a really good game manager-type quarterback. What bothers me is he turns the ball over more than I remembered in college. Is he a turnover machine?”
- Go Terps
jmo
Doesn’t seem like that evaluation is worthy of being the 6th overall pick in the 2019 draft. I’d be happy at this point if Jones becomes Goff. I don’t see it though.
If the production and turnovers remain the same, a new QB should be brought in for 2022 and the 5th year option should be declined.
The thought process as a rookie is you just let them rip to get accustomed to the speed of the game and in year 2 you work on making them a consistently good QB. Of course, we didn't have any fucking help around him so the TD numbers were low and the interception numbers higher than they should have been.
I feel like we see a combination of what we saw in year 1 and 2 by the end of next year. We still need to get this guy help, and it's so blindingly obvious they alluded to it in the post season presser.
1.) I think DJ is trying too hard. I think he wants to be the franchise QB so badly for the Giants and presses. I think the locker room and coaches love it for him - it makes it real hard to give up on this kid.
2) I think the Giants can win games with DJ. But I don't think he's the kind of guy that's going to make them a perennial Super Bowl contender
3.) I think Jared Goff is a great comp for him as a passer with the added bonus of better straight line speed
The real question then becomes - are you willing to pay DJ, Goff like money moving forward?
It appears that there are 3 realities at play here:
1. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a winning QB.
2. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a horrible QB.
3. For various reasons, this will not be the year to make a change at this position.
Quote:
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
This is correct.
Since when does what BBI thinks become relevant to what the team does?
Quote:
there is no decision. He's a developmental QB who the Giants hope can grow as the team around him grows.
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
I saw a guy who too often held on to the ball too long, locked on to receivers, and too often showed poor pocket awareness.
I agree, there is no decision to make yet, which is what Schwartz is saying, but that time is coming.
all season long you saw those things? I didn't. I saw big problems early on but starting with the win against Philly I saw a more decisive QB.
Agree as well. The article is a decent piece and the comments made by NFL evaluators within it sound pretty damn fair on Jones.
Judge says give him more time. So should we.
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
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This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
Since when does what BBI thinks become relevant to what the team does?
HAHAHHAHAAHA - I heard Gettleman reads BBI daily in order to make key decisions on how to run the club!
1.) I think DJ is trying too hard. I think he wants to be the franchise QB so badly for the Giants and presses. I think the locker room and coaches love it for him - it makes it real hard to give up on this kid.
2) I think the Giants can win games with DJ. But I don't think he's the kind of guy that's going to make them a perennial Super Bowl contender
3.) I think Jared Goff is a great comp for him as a passer with the added bonus of better straight line speed
The real question then becomes - are you willing to pay DJ, Goff like money moving forward?
He's Goff with much better speed and doesn't fold under pressure. That's actually a pretty good QB and one worth a second contract. Goff's biggest issue is his pressure/non pressure splits are awful. No QB is good under pressure, but it's important you aren't sinking the team because generally that opens other things up.
Cleveland went from 47 sacks last year to 17 this year. All of a sudden Mayfield is a good QB.
All QB's need help.
The challenge has been that the Giants have failed to put a competitive team on the field in years. The question is only is Jones part of that problem, or a result of that problem. This article, like many here have posted, seems to make year 3 make or break. But is it?
We will get a nice read on Jones if the WR, RB and offensive line is much improved, and Jones stays healthy all year. But how likely is it that all of those things happen in 2021?
I don't think 2021 is going to be this magic answer on Daniel Jones many are expecting it to be, either way.
You need a stud QB to carry you to the promised land in the NFL and Jones aint it. Even in his first few years when he was struggling Eli had glimpses of something special with his 2 minute drills and clutch drives.
Well, because by your assessment and using just two years as your data point then Eli was destined to be mid tier at best after two years. After 3 years (04, 05, 06) people were outright saying Eli isn't a leader (Tiki) and can't win games on his own.
Anybody who uses 2020 as a barometer is nuts. Jones needs time and honestly better skill players. That isn't like saying oh he had Shockey, Tiki and Toomer and just needs more weapons- we are saying the SHIT show at WR this year, missing Barkley and having a team killer in EE sure the EFF didn't do Jones any favors.
Give him two years in the same system for christ sakes.
Save it. No one here, not any of the so called realists, not the optimists, no one here knows wtf Jones is.
We saw Eli make so many NYG and NFL fans look so fucking stupid and here we are again with some of the same fans writing the book on Jones. Yet Joe Judge, who has been coaching in the NFL for 10 years plus seems compelled to want to continue working with Jones. Why? It's not because he wants to be right. it's not because Jones doesn't rock the boat. it's not because Jones is from Duke. It's because Jones has talent and has displayed progression.
That's why I think he's got a shot to develop into a legit QB. I am not accepting shit. I am a fan who knows that players get better. Teams get better. Coaching matters.
You don't get to write a QB off every 20 games because you haven't seen enough star power or stats that fit into your nice little agenda. It doesn't work that way. Many QBs do in fact take time to develop. Most QBs do in fact need help. FACTS. Not horse shit logic.
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In comment 15130574 djm said:
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
You did. Literally your argument for sticking with him was that you "feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there." That's the most pathetic standard of evaluation I've heard on BBI...and I was here for the last 5 years of Eli's career when many of you were saying the same shit about him sucking b/c of everything and everyone else.
It appears that there are 3 realities at play here:
1. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a winning QB.
2. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a horrible QB.
3. For various reasons, this will not be the year to make a change at this position.
short and sweet and exactly right.
But don't forget, some here KNOW Jones won't be a good QB. Judge doesn't know, but Josh does.
Save it.
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In comment 15130586 Josh in the City said:
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In comment 15130574 djm said:
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
You did. Literally your argument for sticking with him was that you "feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there." That's the most pathetic standard of evaluation I've heard on BBI...and I was here for the last 5 years of Eli's career when many of you were saying the same shit about him sucking b/c of everything and everyone else.
Josh- you clearly forget many (including Tiki) were blaming Eli for them not winning more (not having the leadership to do it) early on. Come on, be fair in your overall assessments.
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is making a valid point in some way.
It appears that there are 3 realities at play here:
1. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a winning QB.
2. Daniel Jones has shown an ability to be a horrible QB.
3. For various reasons, this will not be the year to make a change at this position.
short and sweet and exactly right.
But don't forget, some here KNOW Jones won't be a good QB. Judge doesn't know, but Josh does.
Save it.
Ummm....when and where did I say I know Jones won't be a good QB? All I said is that he has to take the next step this year and prove that he can be our true franchise QB otherwise it's time to move on. But again, keep making up nonsense!
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In comment 15130645 djm said:
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In comment 15130586 Josh in the City said:
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In comment 15130574 djm said:
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I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Oh cry me a river. Accepting mediocre play? who the fuck said that. No one did. Go complain about Sam DArnold.
You did. Literally your argument for sticking with him was that you "feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there." That's the most pathetic standard of evaluation I've heard on BBI...and I was here for the last 5 years of Eli's career when many of you were saying the same shit about him sucking b/c of everything and everyone else.
Josh- you clearly forget many (including Tiki) were blaming Eli for them not winning more (not having the leadership to do it) early on. Come on, be fair in your overall assessments.
Not at all...that's part of the reason I'm not ready to move on yet. But there was clearly not enough progress in year 2 and we absolutely have to see it in year 3. If he makes that leap then that's amazing and I'm all in. If he stays in neutral I'm ready to move on.
Go win 10 games.
What specifically are you talking about? What did I say was a fact that was my opinion?
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
Should be read and understood by many on BBI, because according to many here, finding a QB that can lift the play of those around them and carry the team is easy.
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
Enough with potential and hopes and dreams and unicorns and rainbows. PRODUCE and WIN GAMES or it's time to move on. That is literally only thing that matters. Not potential...WINS. And there is no position on the field that has a more direct impact on wins than the QB. I couldn't give a shit if he had more potential than Mahomes. If the potential doesn't result in this team actually winning again then it doesn't matter!
"hoping that someone will become something they are not"
It's called developing a quarterback. Just because Jones isn't a star right now doesn't mean he won't be in the future. It doesn't mean he will be. But your ability to act like he can't get better is infuriating, you're the same as Terps when it comes to this shit
You guys have seriously forgotten how it takes time to develop as a NFL quarterback. You're embarrassing yourselves.