ownership tends to share the optimistic hopeful approach, which tends to cloud some judgements and delay some tough decisions. Can only hope they're self-scouting better and being much more honest about the product on the field, because you need a top QB to be a perennial winner at this level.
one for Jones, I'm not sure why we have to keep talking about it on a daily basis. He's either going to improve or not, the team will get better because of him or it will stay as is if he continues to play the way he does.
I don't necessarily think this is true.
I can see a scenario in which the rest of team does develop and get better but the QB does not. Ask the Bears how that's working out for them.
If that happens - it gets real hard to find a QB that can take you to the promised land b/c other teams don't just let them walk out the door.
...
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Cool! So why don't you stop showing up and bothering people with your less than mediocre posts?1
"if we are OK with a JAG we are accepting mediocrity"
"hoping that someone will become something they are not"
It's called developing a quarterback. Just because Jones isn't a star right now doesn't mean he won't be in the future. It doesn't mean he will be. But your ability to act like he can't get better is infuriating, you're the same as Terps when it comes to this shit
But as I've stated numerous times above, I am 100% ok with developing a QB as long as they show the necessary improvement year to year. My point is, and this isn't an opinion, that we shouldn't be ok continuing to roll with a JAG that DOESN'T take that next step. That's what bogs down franchises and ends up causing them to stay in no man's land for years without ever getting over the hump.
And same goes for that 2nd statement. You can't keep hoping a player will make that leap just b/c you like them or want them to. They need to prove it on the field or you have to make the tough decision to find someone else who can. It's a results business.
I get as fans many of us choose to live in this alternate reality where we're always hoping that the next game or next season will be different even if we remain with the status quo. But I'm sorry, I just don't look at things like that. Show me results or I'm ready to pull the plug. And to be honest, he didn't show NEARLY enough in year two to make me think he will do it in year three. But as a fan, I'm still hopeful and I'm willing to give him that all important third year to see if he can do it. That doesn't mean I'm playing off my opinion as fact. That's just the harsh reality of any business and, in particular, the NFL.
ownership tends to share the optimistic hopeful approach, which tends to cloud some judgements and delay some tough decisions. Can only hope they're self-scouting better and being much more honest about the product on the field, because you need a top QB to be a perennial winner at this level.
there you go again. Jones is 23 years old. He needs a tad more time to develop.
You guys have seriously forgotten how it takes time to develop as a NFL quarterback. You're embarrassing yourselves.
What do you do if you were a decision maker with the team and Jones has a poor year and the team goes 6-10 or 5-11? Does he get a 4th year? Or in a period where it has never been easier for young QB’s to succeed than it is now, does a poor year cement the notion that the dye is cast on what DJ is?
there you go again. Jones is 23 years old. He needs a tad more time to develop.
You guys have seriously forgotten how it takes time to develop as a NFL quarterback. You're embarrassing yourselves.
What do you do if you were a decision maker with the team and Jones has a poor year and the team goes 6-10 or 5-11? Does he get a 4th year? Or in a period where it has never been easier for young QB’s to succeed than it is now, does a poor year cement the notion that the dye is cast on what DJ is?
To me, 2021 is the shit or get off the pot year for Jones.
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
This is correct.
It's actually not.
I think it's Josh who doesn't understand irony. His Jones statement is compared to what he *had* whined about Darnold and not on what he *may* or *would* have hypothetically said.
You can't tell me that he can't make those plays and make more touchdowns. Maybe its a presumption on my part, but I think with better recievers, his numbers would be better.
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
This is correct.
It's actually not.
I think it's Josh who doesn't understand irony. His Jones statement is compared to what he *had* whined about Darnold and not on what he *may* or *would* have hypothetically said.
Huh? It would be ironic if I HAD said that the Jets should continue to stick with Darnold and give him a big contract even though his play hasn't resulted in wins. But since I never stated that, where's the irony? Or do you also not know what irony means?
with better weapons and OL play to support him. But, is he the QB to chase championships is the key point. With our minds over our hearts, do we envision him hoisting a Lombardi ...
is not good enough in today's NFL. Too many things have to go right in order to win. And even when they do go right, it is unsustainable. The only way to sustained winning in this league is to have an elite QB. And it is unlikely that Jones will reach that level.
with better weapons and OL play to support him. But, is he the QB to chase championships is the key point. With our minds over our hearts, do we envision him hoisting a Lombardi ...
i know I can't see it.
RE: I think Jones needs a good OLine for him to succeed
with better weapons and OL play to support him. But, is he the QB to chase championships is the key point. With our minds over our hearts, do we envision him hoisting a Lombardi ...
Too soon to say. Need to see what he does with "better" weapons this year. My single biggest concern with Jones is his pocket presence. There may have been slight improvement from his rookie yr but he has such a long way to go in terms of feeling the rush that I'm just don't know. Even the game plan this year had him getting the ball our super quickly b/c it seems the coaching staff recognized that weakness as well. We'll see...
I just think sometimes there will be some uncertainty injected into a QB's development plan. That's how shit goes more often than not. Some now want to kill Jones and the Giants for staying the course despite some concerns with the young QB? I think that's pretty ridiculous. It's one thing to point out the questions with Jones. ONe thing to be a little concerned or hesitant but if you're gonna kill every team for sort of powering through a young QB's developmental period you're basically going to kill just about every team. Mahomes and Rodgers are rare. Eli and Josh Allen aren't even that common. Tannehill isn't that common either. But the shades of grey or variances with all these QBs is common.
with better weapons and OL play to support him. But, is he the QB to chase championships is the key point. With our minds over our hearts, do we envision him hoisting a Lombardi ...
Too soon to say. Need to see what he does with "better" weapons this year. My single biggest concern with Jones is his pocket presence. There may have been slight improvement from his rookie yr but he has such a long way to go in terms of feeling the rush that I'm just don't know. Even the game plan this year had him getting the ball our super quickly b/c it seems the coaching staff recognized that weakness as well. We'll see...
I don't think it is smart to "wait" around for a guy. If you don't have a guy playing at an elite level, you don't have a guy. Period. The Giants would be smart to proceed as though they don't have a franchise QB. If he surprises us - great. If you are "waiting" for a guy to show himself, you are wasting your most precious resource - time.
with better weapons and OL play to support him. But, is he the QB to chase championships is the key point. With our minds over our hearts, do we envision him hoisting a Lombardi ...
Love this question - wonder what a BBI poll would show...
all the time, or if Eric just cuts and pastes comments from old ones into new ones. But this is the same people making the same comments in every thread.
Two facts:
1. Nobody knows for sure what Jones will and won't be.
2. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on what Jones has been and they think he will be. And they are only that - opinions. Nobody's opinion is stupid because it is different from your own.
I just think sometimes there will be some uncertainty injected into a QB's development plan. That's how shit goes more often than not. Some now want to kill Jones and the Giants for staying the course despite some concerns with the young QB? I think that's pretty ridiculous. It's one thing to point out the questions with Jones. ONe thing to be a little concerned or hesitant but if you're gonna kill every team for sort of powering through a young QB's developmental period you're basically going to kill just about every team. Mahomes and Rodgers are rare. Eli and Josh Allen aren't even that common. Tannehill isn't that common either. But the shades of grey or variances with all these QBs is common.
But no, it's really not that rare in today's NFL for highly drafted QB's to make that leap by year three. Off the top of my head, these are the QB's who were drafted in the last 3 yrs that have already showed signs of being a franchise QB:
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Kyler Murray
Baker Mayfield
Justin Herbert
Deshaun Watson
And quite frankly, the other QB's not on this list that have been in the league for 3 yrs I'd be ready to move on from! Which is why next yr is so important for Jones.
all the time, or if Eric just cuts and pastes comments from old ones into new ones. But this is the same people making the same comments in every thread.
Two facts:
1. Nobody knows for sure what Jones will and won't be.
2. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on what Jones has been and they think he will be. And they are only that - opinions. Nobody's opinion is stupid because it is different from your own.
Love this - it's also why it's fun (for me) to continually debate it...b/c there is no definitive answer right now...It's also why I get people that chose not to engage over and over again.
I just think sometimes there will be some uncertainty injected into a QB's development plan. That's how shit goes more often than not. Some now want to kill Jones and the Giants for staying the course despite some concerns with the young QB? I think that's pretty ridiculous. It's one thing to point out the questions with Jones. ONe thing to be a little concerned or hesitant but if you're gonna kill every team for sort of powering through a young QB's developmental period you're basically going to kill just about every team. Mahomes and Rodgers are rare. Eli and Josh Allen aren't even that common. Tannehill isn't that common either. But the shades of grey or variances with all these QBs is common.
We've already passed on one excellent QB prospect (Herbert) to continue seeing what we have in Jones. Will we miss on any this year? The year after?
I'm not on board with "giving' him one more year. He hasn't earned it.
I'll say it again: if Jones were a journeyman vet or a UDFA he would have been cut after how he played in 2020. The only reason he enters 2021 as the starter is the draft investment made in him. Shitty way to do business.
and I'm not comparing the two, but can you imagine if Engram was Rodgers #1 target?
Davante Adams was targeted 159 times and didn't drop a single ball. Not one. Engram was targeted 109 times and dropped 8, with 6 of them resulting in INTs!
DJ played behind a pretty horrendous inexperienced OL for the first half of the season and played with f*cking Engram as his #1 target for the entire year.
Let's see him w/ Barkley, a better OL and some better receivers before we give up on him.
and I'm not comparing the two, but can you imagine if Engram was Rodgers #1 target?
Davante Adams was targeted 159 times and didn't drop a single ball. Not one. Engram was targeted 109 times and dropped 8, with 6 of them resulting in INTs!
DJ played behind a pretty horrendous inexperienced OL for the first half of the season and played with f*cking Engram as his #1 target for the entire year.
Let's see him w/ Barkley, a better OL and some better receivers before we give up on him.
and they need to put some weapons around him, solidify the OL, find a tailback better than Gallman to help share the rushing load with SB. A respectable offense should help them contend in the division provided the defense doesn't take a step backwards.
Finding a backup RB is really an underrated part of this offseason. No way you can go into the season with Saquon and nothing else. Can't just give him a ton of carries defacto until his confidence and conditioning get up to snuff. We also see the results of having a journeyman backup getting significant time. Hitting on a midround pick here would be huge. Plus if Saquon is in the Giants long term plans, the season after that 2k carry mark is generally where ability declines.
and I'm not comparing the two, but can you imagine if Engram was Rodgers #1 target?
Davante Adams was targeted 159 times and didn't drop a single ball. Not one. Engram was targeted 109 times and dropped 8, with 6 of them resulting in INTs!
DJ played behind a pretty horrendous inexperienced OL for the first half of the season and played with f*cking Engram as his #1 target for the entire year.
Let's see him w/ Barkley, a better OL and some better receivers before we give up on him.
Aaron Rodgers would throw the ball to someone else.
with better weapons and OL play to support him. But, is he the QB to chase championships is the key point. With our minds over our hearts, do we envision him hoisting a Lombardi ...
He stands tall in the pocket and shows a lot of courage back there. And he throws a nice ball. He can gouge a defense with his legs, and if the Giants secure a true #1 WR next season via the Draft or Free Agency, I expect Daniel Jones' stats to improve over 2020.
Now the bad news. Daniel Jones has neither the pocket presence, flexibility, elusiveness, array of arm angle throws, vision nor creativeness to be anything but an average-to-mediocre NFL QB.
I am shocked (not really) that some here don't see the potential in Jones. HE's put up numbers--granted I don't really care about 2019, but he did put up numbers. He's run for 80 yard sprints. He's run for TDs. His rushing numbers are near elite for QBs. He throws a pretty ball with near elite accuracy. He's even won division games this season, going 4-2. He's not the quick twitch athlete that we see in guys like Jackson but he can run the ball and he can throw the ball. He's got talent. Talent goes a long way in the NFL. Coaching and talent are nearly impossible to stop. I know we want instant results but there are factors that come into play. I didn't use the covid lack or prep time excuses for Judge and I won't use them for Jones but a first year HC implementing a new system with a 2nd year QB? Yeah, that's a factor.
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
Enough with potential and hopes and dreams and unicorns and rainbows. PRODUCE and WIN GAMES or it's time to move on. That is literally only thing that matters. Not potential...WINS. And there is no position on the field that has a more direct impact on wins than the QB. I couldn't give a shit if he had more potential than Mahomes. If the potential doesn't result in this team actually winning again then it doesn't matter!
LOL.
Quote:
He's fucking horrible
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn't get any worse. Fire gettleman!
Quote:
DANIEL JONES SUCKS
Josh in the City : 4/19/2019 11:39 am : link
Just watch the damn tape! I 100% do not believe any scout who has watched every one of his games would advocate drafting him in the first two days of the draft. That's not me being extra negative he really wasn't impressive at all. He was also one of the worst players on the field at the Senior Bowl. I believe the love for him on this board comes down to the fact that rumors suggest the Giants may take him and people are hoping for the best. Nothing about his tape or performance suggests he will ever be anything more than a backup QB in the NFL at best.
1) Jones has the ability to be a top 10-12 QB but not likely headed for superstardom. And that is ok.
2) Jones is likely trying a bit too hard and pressing. At some point he needs to let the game breath a bit and allow his ability and instinct to kick in.
Quickness. D.j.’s Read and react speed, deceptiveness, not locking onto just one receiver, may never get better......and certainly he will never be elite. If you look around the league and try and see which team got suckered into their first round qb.....you realize, it’s you. Best play in keeping him is commit to surrounding him with a massive expenditure on talent, defense, OL, receivers must all be stellar, just never rely on DJ to win a game and expect one or two turnovers from him every game......and keep an active qb search ongoing, remember, tom goat brady was a sixth round choice.
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
You would??
Quote:
Did any of you actually
Josh in the City : 2/27/2020 11:03 am : link
watch the Jets this year? Their talent was as bad as ours and they finished 7-9. Darnold had mono this year and still finished the season 7-6 as a starter on that horrendous team. The strides he made were fantastic
Fortunately, if Judge can influence more decisions in player selection maybe an offense can be built around Jones. But that's going to require a lot of investment and some good luck hitting draft picks and free agent signings.
Because Jones has revealed who he is - a game manager. And now it's just a matter of figuring out what level of game manager he is.
We really overshot drafting Jones at #6. Talent wise, he's in the bottom third of the league. Production wise, he's bottom third of the league. We're really in "fingers crossed" territory with this guy right now...
There are at least four QBs in this draft more gifted than Jones. Significantly. To not consider an opportunity to reboot by drafting one of them - if available - is very hard to reconcile...
So, again, let's hope Judge can work this to a good conclusion.
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
This is correct.
It's actually not.
I think it's Josh who doesn't understand irony. His Jones statement is compared to what he *had* whined about Darnold and not on what he *may* or *would* have hypothetically said.
Fortunately, if Judge can influence more decisions in player selection maybe an offense can be built around Jones. But that's going to require a lot of investment and some good luck hitting draft picks and free agent signings.
Because Jones has revealed who he is - a game manager. And now it's just a matter of figuring out what level of game manager he is.
We really overshot drafting Jones at #6. Talent wise, he's in the bottom third of the league. Production wise, he's bottom third of the league. We're really in "fingers crossed" territory with this guy right now...
There are at least four QBs in this draft more gifted than Jones. Significantly. To not consider an opportunity to reboot by drafting one of them - if available - is very hard to reconcile...
So, again, let's hope Judge can work this to a good conclusion.
I think this is fair.
It's not like this guy has zero NFL tape.
I agree with the point many are making - no one can say definitively what kind of QB DJ will be for the duration of his career...but we can project somewhat based on what we've seen for the better part of two years.
Fortunately, if Judge can influence more decisions in player selection maybe an offense can be built around Jones. But that's going to require a lot of investment and some good luck hitting draft picks and free agent signings.
Because Jones has revealed who he is - a game manager. And now it's just a matter of figuring out what level of game manager he is.
We really overshot drafting Jones at #6. Talent wise, he's in the bottom third of the league. Production wise, he's bottom third of the league. We're really in "fingers crossed" territory with this guy right now...
There are at least four QBs in this draft more gifted than Jones. Significantly. To not consider an opportunity to reboot by drafting one of them - if available - is very hard to reconcile...
So, again, let's hope Judge can work this to a good conclusion.
Agree with the Judge-related comments. Not there yet on everybody else being so much more gifted.
May very well be Giants are wasting another by keeping Jones in the saddle, but I don't think its unreasonable to give him that opportunity, especially if Judge backs him right now.
Besides, based on the overall weak roster, are we really wasting anything anyway in 2021?
there is no decision. He's a developmental QB who the Giants hope can grow as the team around him grows.
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
Daniel Jones, and the Giants' situation as it relates to him now that the roster around him is beginning to bear fruit, may very well be (and ironically so) the exact scenario that DG himself described as "QB hell" just a few years ago. Not good enough to reach the next level; not bad enough to sink to the level below where a top-notch QB prospect is available.
Since when does what BBI thinks become relevant to what the team does?
Maybe not BBI per se, but the fanbase's collective temper tantrum in 2017 - and John Mara's reaction to that tantrum - set this team back by two years.
I am shocked (not really) that some here don't see the potential in Jones. HE's put up numbers--granted I don't really care about 2019, but he did put up numbers. He's run for 80 yard sprints. He's run for TDs. His rushing numbers are near elite for QBs. He throws a pretty ball with near elite accuracy. He's even won division games this season, going 4-2. He's not the quick twitch athlete that we see in guys like Jackson but he can run the ball and he can throw the ball. He's got talent. Talent goes a long way in the NFL. Coaching and talent are nearly impossible to stop. I know we want instant results but there are factors that come into play. I didn't use the covid lack or prep time excuses for Judge and I won't use them for Jones but a first year HC implementing a new system with a 2nd year QB? Yeah, that's a factor.
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
Enough with potential and hopes and dreams and unicorns and rainbows. PRODUCE and WIN GAMES or it's time to move on. That is literally only thing that matters. Not potential...WINS. And there is no position on the field that has a more direct impact on wins than the QB. I couldn't give a shit if he had more potential than Mahomes. If the potential doesn't result in this team actually winning again then it doesn't matter!
LOL.
Quote:
He's fucking horrible
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn't get any worse. Fire gettleman!
Quote:
DANIEL JONES SUCKS
Josh in the City : 4/19/2019 11:39 am : link
Just watch the damn tape! I 100% do not believe any scout who has watched every one of his games would advocate drafting him in the first two days of the draft. That's not me being extra negative he really wasn't impressive at all. He was also one of the worst players on the field at the Senior Bowl. I believe the love for him on this board comes down to the fact that rumors suggest the Giants may take him and people are hoping for the best. Nothing about his tape or performance suggests he will ever be anything more than a backup QB in the NFL at best.
LOL so what are you saying!? That after two seasons it looks like I was right along on draft night!? Thanks I guess?
of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
You would??
Quote:
Did any of you actually
Josh in the City : 2/27/2020 11:03 am : link
watch the Jets this year? Their talent was as bad as ours and they finished 7-9. Darnold had mono this year and still finished the season 7-6 as a starter on that horrendous team. The strides he made were fantastic
Once again, this post was made after last season when Darnold DID take strides in year 2 and started showing substantial results. However, with more data after year three in which the results regressed, I would 100% not give Darnold a big contract or even pick up his 5th yr option. Again, you're not doing anything except proving my points for me so thanks.
boils down to this. Jones should get one more year to prove his naysayers, including me, wrong. If he does then that's great we have our franchise QB. If not, then it's time to find his replacement.
"if we are OK with a JAG we are accepting mediocrity"
"hoping that someone will become something they are not"
It's called developing a quarterback. Just because Jones isn't a star right now doesn't mean he won't be in the future. It doesn't mean he will be. But your ability to act like he can't get better is infuriating, you're the same as Terps when it comes to this shit
Look, we get it - you don't watch any NFL games other than the Giants. But NFL QBs are winning the MVP award in their second season. They're establishing themselves as franchise cornerstones by their second season. They are proving they belong by their second season.
This antiquated QB development timeline that Giants fans cling to as a justification for Jones's slow growth at the most pivotal position in sports is just not aligned with how the NFL operates anymore.
To his credit (and I am not one to give DG credit), we are building a roster that actually has a chance to compete but doing so thus far in spite of our QB rather than because of him. A year from now, we'll probably be an 8-8 team with another season of question marks from Jones, and we'll be even farther away from the sort of prospect that can be a franchise QB. And we'll settle in for a half-decade of bouncing between 7-9 and 9-7 with draft picks that land between the 14th and 20th selection. Eventually, we'll have to either bottom out again or empty the cupboard for a QB prospect.
I'll go on record right now and say that we'll just trot on the treadmill until Arch Manning is that prospect that we finally go all-in for, and then we'll pull the trigger like we did for his uncle - Jones or whatever other fungible journeyman placeholder is available will man the position until then. This franchise is predictable enough to make that claim this far in advance.
I don't necessarily think this is true.
I can see a scenario in which the rest of team does develop and get better but the QB does not. Ask the Bears how that's working out for them.
If that happens - it gets real hard to find a QB that can take you to the promised land b/c other teams don't just let them walk out the door.
Quote:
...
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there.
...
This is what this fan base has resorted to....accepting mediocrity. If we're okay with a JAG at QB simply b/c he won't embarrass himself then we deserve the results we've been given over the past decade.
IMO, Jones has one more season to PROVE he's the franchise QB we need him to be or it's time to cut ties and move on. Enough of the beating around the bush and hoping that someone will become what they're not. Show me results or GTFO.
Cool! So why don't you stop showing up and bothering people with your less than mediocre posts?1
"hoping that someone will become something they are not"
It's called developing a quarterback. Just because Jones isn't a star right now doesn't mean he won't be in the future. It doesn't mean he will be. But your ability to act like he can't get better is infuriating, you're the same as Terps when it comes to this shit
But as I've stated numerous times above, I am 100% ok with developing a QB as long as they show the necessary improvement year to year. My point is, and this isn't an opinion, that we shouldn't be ok continuing to roll with a JAG that DOESN'T take that next step. That's what bogs down franchises and ends up causing them to stay in no man's land for years without ever getting over the hump.
And same goes for that 2nd statement. You can't keep hoping a player will make that leap just b/c you like them or want them to. They need to prove it on the field or you have to make the tough decision to find someone else who can. It's a results business.
I get as fans many of us choose to live in this alternate reality where we're always hoping that the next game or next season will be different even if we remain with the status quo. But I'm sorry, I just don't look at things like that. Show me results or I'm ready to pull the plug. And to be honest, he didn't show NEARLY enough in year two to make me think he will do it in year three. But as a fan, I'm still hopeful and I'm willing to give him that all important third year to see if he can do it. That doesn't mean I'm playing off my opinion as fact. That's just the harsh reality of any business and, in particular, the NFL.
10000% on the money.
You guys have seriously forgotten how it takes time to develop as a NFL quarterback. You're embarrassing yourselves.
What do you do if you were a decision maker with the team and Jones has a poor year and the team goes 6-10 or 5-11? Does he get a 4th year? Or in a period where it has never been easier for young QB’s to succeed than it is now, does a poor year cement the notion that the dye is cast on what DJ is?
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there you go again. Jones is 23 years old. He needs a tad more time to develop.
You guys have seriously forgotten how it takes time to develop as a NFL quarterback. You're embarrassing yourselves.
What do you do if you were a decision maker with the team and Jones has a poor year and the team goes 6-10 or 5-11? Does he get a 4th year? Or in a period where it has never been easier for young QB’s to succeed than it is now, does a poor year cement the notion that the dye is cast on what DJ is?
To me, 2021 is the shit or get off the pot year for Jones.
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In comment 15130588 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
This is correct.
It's actually not.
I think it's Josh who doesn't understand irony. His Jones statement is compared to what he *had* whined about Darnold and not on what he *may* or *would* have hypothetically said.
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In comment 15130592 Josh in the City said:
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In comment 15130588 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
This is correct.
It's actually not.
I think it's Josh who doesn't understand irony. His Jones statement is compared to what he *had* whined about Darnold and not on what he *may* or *would* have hypothetically said.
Huh? It would be ironic if I HAD said that the Jets should continue to stick with Darnold and give him a big contract even though his play hasn't resulted in wins. But since I never stated that, where's the irony? Or do you also not know what irony means?
i know I can't see it.
I wonder what Jones could do with Josh Allen's athleticism, instincts, and arm.
Too soon to say. Need to see what he does with "better" weapons this year. My single biggest concern with Jones is his pocket presence. There may have been slight improvement from his rookie yr but he has such a long way to go in terms of feeling the rush that I'm just don't know. Even the game plan this year had him getting the ball our super quickly b/c it seems the coaching staff recognized that weakness as well. We'll see...
I just think sometimes there will be some uncertainty injected into a QB's development plan. That's how shit goes more often than not. Some now want to kill Jones and the Giants for staying the course despite some concerns with the young QB? I think that's pretty ridiculous. It's one thing to point out the questions with Jones. ONe thing to be a little concerned or hesitant but if you're gonna kill every team for sort of powering through a young QB's developmental period you're basically going to kill just about every team. Mahomes and Rodgers are rare. Eli and Josh Allen aren't even that common. Tannehill isn't that common either. But the shades of grey or variances with all these QBs is common.
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with better weapons and OL play to support him. But, is he the QB to chase championships is the key point. With our minds over our hearts, do we envision him hoisting a Lombardi ...
Too soon to say. Need to see what he does with "better" weapons this year. My single biggest concern with Jones is his pocket presence. There may have been slight improvement from his rookie yr but he has such a long way to go in terms of feeling the rush that I'm just don't know. Even the game plan this year had him getting the ball our super quickly b/c it seems the coaching staff recognized that weakness as well. We'll see...
I don't think it is smart to "wait" around for a guy. If you don't have a guy playing at an elite level, you don't have a guy. Period. The Giants would be smart to proceed as though they don't have a franchise QB. If he surprises us - great. If you are "waiting" for a guy to show himself, you are wasting your most precious resource - time.
Love this question - wonder what a BBI poll would show...
50/50?
Two facts:
1. Nobody knows for sure what Jones will and won't be.
2. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on what Jones has been and they think he will be. And they are only that - opinions. Nobody's opinion is stupid because it is different from your own.
I just think sometimes there will be some uncertainty injected into a QB's development plan. That's how shit goes more often than not. Some now want to kill Jones and the Giants for staying the course despite some concerns with the young QB? I think that's pretty ridiculous. It's one thing to point out the questions with Jones. ONe thing to be a little concerned or hesitant but if you're gonna kill every team for sort of powering through a young QB's developmental period you're basically going to kill just about every team. Mahomes and Rodgers are rare. Eli and Josh Allen aren't even that common. Tannehill isn't that common either. But the shades of grey or variances with all these QBs is common.
But no, it's really not that rare in today's NFL for highly drafted QB's to make that leap by year three. Off the top of my head, these are the QB's who were drafted in the last 3 yrs that have already showed signs of being a franchise QB:
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Kyler Murray
Baker Mayfield
Justin Herbert
Deshaun Watson
And quite frankly, the other QB's not on this list that have been in the league for 3 yrs I'd be ready to move on from! Which is why next yr is so important for Jones.
Ok, 5.
#Patience
Two facts:
1. Nobody knows for sure what Jones will and won't be.
2. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion on what Jones has been and they think he will be. And they are only that - opinions. Nobody's opinion is stupid because it is different from your own.
Love this - it's also why it's fun (for me) to continually debate it...b/c there is no definitive answer right now...It's also why I get people that chose not to engage over and over again.
I just think sometimes there will be some uncertainty injected into a QB's development plan. That's how shit goes more often than not. Some now want to kill Jones and the Giants for staying the course despite some concerns with the young QB? I think that's pretty ridiculous. It's one thing to point out the questions with Jones. ONe thing to be a little concerned or hesitant but if you're gonna kill every team for sort of powering through a young QB's developmental period you're basically going to kill just about every team. Mahomes and Rodgers are rare. Eli and Josh Allen aren't even that common. Tannehill isn't that common either. But the shades of grey or variances with all these QBs is common.
We've already passed on one excellent QB prospect (Herbert) to continue seeing what we have in Jones. Will we miss on any this year? The year after?
I'm not on board with "giving' him one more year. He hasn't earned it.
I'll say it again: if Jones were a journeyman vet or a UDFA he would have been cut after how he played in 2020. The only reason he enters 2021 as the starter is the draft investment made in him. Shitty way to do business.
Davante Adams was targeted 159 times and didn't drop a single ball. Not one. Engram was targeted 109 times and dropped 8, with 6 of them resulting in INTs!
DJ played behind a pretty horrendous inexperienced OL for the first half of the season and played with f*cking Engram as his #1 target for the entire year.
Let's see him w/ Barkley, a better OL and some better receivers before we give up on him.
Davante Adams was targeted 159 times and didn't drop a single ball. Not one. Engram was targeted 109 times and dropped 8, with 6 of them resulting in INTs!
DJ played behind a pretty horrendous inexperienced OL for the first half of the season and played with f*cking Engram as his #1 target for the entire year.
Let's see him w/ Barkley, a better OL and some better receivers before we give up on him.
and then you waste another year..
Finding a backup RB is really an underrated part of this offseason. No way you can go into the season with Saquon and nothing else. Can't just give him a ton of carries defacto until his confidence and conditioning get up to snuff. We also see the results of having a journeyman backup getting significant time. Hitting on a midround pick here would be huge. Plus if Saquon is in the Giants long term plans, the season after that 2k carry mark is generally where ability declines.
Davante Adams was targeted 159 times and didn't drop a single ball. Not one. Engram was targeted 109 times and dropped 8, with 6 of them resulting in INTs!
DJ played behind a pretty horrendous inexperienced OL for the first half of the season and played with f*cking Engram as his #1 target for the entire year.
Let's see him w/ Barkley, a better OL and some better receivers before we give up on him.
Aaron Rodgers would throw the ball to someone else.
I'm not sure why DJ never figured that out?
Ok, 5.
#Patience
Why is Josh Allen at all instructional for Daniel Jones, yet year 3 for Sam Darnold isn't?
#SelectiveBias
He stands tall in the pocket and shows a lot of courage back there. And he throws a nice ball. He can gouge a defense with his legs, and if the Giants secure a true #1 WR next season via the Draft or Free Agency, I expect Daniel Jones' stats to improve over 2020.
Now the bad news. Daniel Jones has neither the pocket presence, flexibility, elusiveness, array of arm angle throws, vision nor creativeness to be anything but an average-to-mediocre NFL QB.
Get used to it.
Got me there! (:-) I just thought it sounded nice.
Well the GM said it, so it must be true right?
He retired a year after that.
What are quotes worth?
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I am shocked (not really) that some here don't see the potential in Jones. HE's put up numbers--granted I don't really care about 2019, but he did put up numbers. He's run for 80 yard sprints. He's run for TDs. His rushing numbers are near elite for QBs. He throws a pretty ball with near elite accuracy. He's even won division games this season, going 4-2. He's not the quick twitch athlete that we see in guys like Jackson but he can run the ball and he can throw the ball. He's got talent. Talent goes a long way in the NFL. Coaching and talent are nearly impossible to stop. I know we want instant results but there are factors that come into play. I didn't use the covid lack or prep time excuses for Judge and I won't use them for Jones but a first year HC implementing a new system with a 2nd year QB? Yeah, that's a factor.
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
Enough with potential and hopes and dreams and unicorns and rainbows. PRODUCE and WIN GAMES or it's time to move on. That is literally only thing that matters. Not potential...WINS. And there is no position on the field that has a more direct impact on wins than the QB. I couldn't give a shit if he had more potential than Mahomes. If the potential doesn't result in this team actually winning again then it doesn't matter!
LOL.
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn't get any worse. Fire gettleman!
Josh in the City : 4/19/2019 11:39 am : link
Just watch the damn tape! I 100% do not believe any scout who has watched every one of his games would advocate drafting him in the first two days of the draft. That's not me being extra negative he really wasn't impressive at all. He was also one of the worst players on the field at the Senior Bowl. I believe the love for him on this board comes down to the fact that rumors suggest the Giants may take him and people are hoping for the best. Nothing about his tape or performance suggests he will ever be anything more than a backup QB in the NFL at best.
1) Jones has the ability to be a top 10-12 QB but not likely headed for superstardom. And that is ok.
2) Jones is likely trying a bit too hard and pressing. At some point he needs to let the game breath a bit and allow his ability and instinct to kick in.
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of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
You would??
Josh in the City : 2/27/2020 11:03 am : link
watch the Jets this year? Their talent was as bad as ours and they finished 7-9. Darnold had mono this year and still finished the season 7-6 as a starter on that horrendous team. The strides he made were fantastic
Fortunately, if Judge can influence more decisions in player selection maybe an offense can be built around Jones. But that's going to require a lot of investment and some good luck hitting draft picks and free agent signings.
Because Jones has revealed who he is - a game manager. And now it's just a matter of figuring out what level of game manager he is.
We really overshot drafting Jones at #6. Talent wise, he's in the bottom third of the league. Production wise, he's bottom third of the league. We're really in "fingers crossed" territory with this guy right now...
There are at least four QBs in this draft more gifted than Jones. Significantly. To not consider an opportunity to reboot by drafting one of them - if available - is very hard to reconcile...
So, again, let's hope Judge can work this to a good conclusion.
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In comment 15130592 Josh in the City said:
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In comment 15130588 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
This is correct.
It's actually not.
I think it's Josh who doesn't understand irony. His Jones statement is compared to what he *had* whined about Darnold and not on what he *may* or *would* have hypothetically said.
Nonsensical post.
Fortunately, if Judge can influence more decisions in player selection maybe an offense can be built around Jones. But that's going to require a lot of investment and some good luck hitting draft picks and free agent signings.
Because Jones has revealed who he is - a game manager. And now it's just a matter of figuring out what level of game manager he is.
We really overshot drafting Jones at #6. Talent wise, he's in the bottom third of the league. Production wise, he's bottom third of the league. We're really in "fingers crossed" territory with this guy right now...
There are at least four QBs in this draft more gifted than Jones. Significantly. To not consider an opportunity to reboot by drafting one of them - if available - is very hard to reconcile...
So, again, let's hope Judge can work this to a good conclusion.
I think this is fair.
It's not like this guy has zero NFL tape.
I agree with the point many are making - no one can say definitively what kind of QB DJ will be for the duration of his career...but we can project somewhat based on what we've seen for the better part of two years.
Fortunately, if Judge can influence more decisions in player selection maybe an offense can be built around Jones. But that's going to require a lot of investment and some good luck hitting draft picks and free agent signings.
Because Jones has revealed who he is - a game manager. And now it's just a matter of figuring out what level of game manager he is.
We really overshot drafting Jones at #6. Talent wise, he's in the bottom third of the league. Production wise, he's bottom third of the league. We're really in "fingers crossed" territory with this guy right now...
There are at least four QBs in this draft more gifted than Jones. Significantly. To not consider an opportunity to reboot by drafting one of them - if available - is very hard to reconcile...
So, again, let's hope Judge can work this to a good conclusion.
Agree with the Judge-related comments. Not there yet on everybody else being so much more gifted.
May very well be Giants are wasting another by keeping Jones in the saddle, but I don't think its unreasonable to give him that opportunity, especially if Judge backs him right now.
Besides, based on the overall weak roster, are we really wasting anything anyway in 2021?
The Giants literally don't have to make a decision on Jones unless a better QB avails himself via either FA or the draft. They won't because the Giants are not picking top 3-5.
Same shit. Different decade. Jones may not have been a rookie in 2020 but he was in a similar spot to many first year QBs. Everyone looks at his numbers but that is such a short sighted and limited viewpoint to take. Was Jones a decent QB over his last 5-6 starts? Forget the numbers. Watch the games. Watch how he handled the offense. Watch how he managed the game. Watch how he threw guys open or how he avoided too many mistakes. He wasn't flashy or amazing but he was clearly a stable influence. Other than the cards game he played solid ball starting against Philly.
I don't LOVE Jones. I wouldn't bet my life on him being good or great or bad. I don't know enough yet. But I saw enough in him over the last 5-6 starts to at least feel like he's a PRO QB that won't embarrass himself out there. There is no decision to make. Yet.
Daniel Jones, and the Giants' situation as it relates to him now that the roster around him is beginning to bear fruit, may very well be (and ironically so) the exact scenario that DG himself described as "QB hell" just a few years ago. Not good enough to reach the next level; not bad enough to sink to the level below where a top-notch QB prospect is available.
Yawn indeed.
Since when does what BBI thinks become relevant to what the team does?
Maybe not BBI per se, but the fanbase's collective temper tantrum in 2017 - and John Mara's reaction to that tantrum - set this team back by two years.
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In comment 15130693 djm said:
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I am shocked (not really) that some here don't see the potential in Jones. HE's put up numbers--granted I don't really care about 2019, but he did put up numbers. He's run for 80 yard sprints. He's run for TDs. His rushing numbers are near elite for QBs. He throws a pretty ball with near elite accuracy. He's even won division games this season, going 4-2. He's not the quick twitch athlete that we see in guys like Jackson but he can run the ball and he can throw the ball. He's got talent. Talent goes a long way in the NFL. Coaching and talent are nearly impossible to stop. I know we want instant results but there are factors that come into play. I didn't use the covid lack or prep time excuses for Judge and I won't use them for Jones but a first year HC implementing a new system with a 2nd year QB? Yeah, that's a factor.
You have to give this QB another year with this same staff. IT's ridiculous to think that Jones won't improve in year 2 simply by being more comfortable and coached. The entire team should improve unless Judge is Pat Shumur redux and the first year was as good as it gets here. I doubt that, but I can't say it is impossible. I just don't see Judge as the HC that regresses in year 2 and beyond.
Enough with potential and hopes and dreams and unicorns and rainbows. PRODUCE and WIN GAMES or it's time to move on. That is literally only thing that matters. Not potential...WINS. And there is no position on the field that has a more direct impact on wins than the QB. I couldn't give a shit if he had more potential than Mahomes. If the potential doesn't result in this team actually winning again then it doesn't matter!
LOL.
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He's fucking horrible
Josh in the City : 4/25/2019 10:57 pm : link
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn't get any worse. Fire gettleman!
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DANIEL JONES SUCKS
Josh in the City : 4/19/2019 11:39 am : link
Just watch the damn tape! I 100% do not believe any scout who has watched every one of his games would advocate drafting him in the first two days of the draft. That's not me being extra negative he really wasn't impressive at all. He was also one of the worst players on the field at the Senior Bowl. I believe the love for him on this board comes down to the fact that rumors suggest the Giants may take him and people are hoping for the best. Nothing about his tape or performance suggests he will ever be anything more than a backup QB in the NFL at best.
LOL so what are you saying!? That after two seasons it looks like I was right along on draft night!? Thanks I guess?
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In comment 15130588 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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of that post above by the guy who cried about not drafting Darnold for almost two years is fucking hilarious!
I'm assuming you don't know the definition of irony since there's no irony in that post at all. I would make the exact same statement about Darnold if I were a Jets fan.
You would??
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Did any of you actually
Josh in the City : 2/27/2020 11:03 am : link
watch the Jets this year? Their talent was as bad as ours and they finished 7-9. Darnold had mono this year and still finished the season 7-6 as a starter on that horrendous team. The strides he made were fantastic
Once again, this post was made after last season when Darnold DID take strides in year 2 and started showing substantial results. However, with more data after year three in which the results regressed, I would 100% not give Darnold a big contract or even pick up his 5th yr option. Again, you're not doing anything except proving my points for me so thanks.
"hoping that someone will become something they are not"
It's called developing a quarterback. Just because Jones isn't a star right now doesn't mean he won't be in the future. It doesn't mean he will be. But your ability to act like he can't get better is infuriating, you're the same as Terps when it comes to this shit
Look, we get it - you don't watch any NFL games other than the Giants. But NFL QBs are winning the MVP award in their second season. They're establishing themselves as franchise cornerstones by their second season. They are proving they belong by their second season.
This antiquated QB development timeline that Giants fans cling to as a justification for Jones's slow growth at the most pivotal position in sports is just not aligned with how the NFL operates anymore.
To his credit (and I am not one to give DG credit), we are building a roster that actually has a chance to compete but doing so thus far in spite of our QB rather than because of him. A year from now, we'll probably be an 8-8 team with another season of question marks from Jones, and we'll be even farther away from the sort of prospect that can be a franchise QB. And we'll settle in for a half-decade of bouncing between 7-9 and 9-7 with draft picks that land between the 14th and 20th selection. Eventually, we'll have to either bottom out again or empty the cupboard for a QB prospect.
I'll go on record right now and say that we'll just trot on the treadmill until Arch Manning is that prospect that we finally go all-in for, and then we'll pull the trigger like we did for his uncle - Jones or whatever other fungible journeyman placeholder is available will man the position until then. This franchise is predictable enough to make that claim this far in advance.