players.
Which would you pick.
Daniel Jones, at least at this point in his career, probably can be categorized as an "average" Quarterback.
He could, potentially, have a pretty elite arsenal with a few moves this off-season; say drafting Devonta Smith or Kyle Pitts; or signing Allen Robinson or Hunter Henry. ALong with the return of Saquan Barkley; that would be a fairly explosive group of weapons.
But in terms of outcomes, who do you think would perform better. Someone like Jones with that cast of characters; or someone like Rodgers with the skill players the Giants had this past season? And i mean when they had the likes of Tate, Board, and Ratley starting with Kaden Smith at tight end.
Final caveat, offensive line is average too. Middle of the pack.
Eli always did well with non-elite weapons when he has an OL. Nothing functions well if you can’t protect your QB.
You can win a SB w Mid level QB. Diluted for sure and recently Foles. And look at GB. Rodgers is most likely a top 5 all time QB. And they only have one SB. Too many variables
Well - I'd argue he really didn't, if you're talking about guys like Ruben Randle, Jernell Jernigan, and Larry Donnell. Peak Beckham alone doesn't make up for the garbage the Giants had on the field otherwise. Second, Eli had a below NFL level offensive line toward the end.
We'll see how far Josh Allan goes; he is not elite skill contrary to popular opinion, but on a good roster. Jones is below average like back-up QB material
31st in completion percentage (62.5%)
29th in TDs (11)
19th in passing yds. (2,943)
21st in QB rating (61.4)
That adds up to a BELOW average QB who we hope someday will be at least an average QB.
I know my response did not address the main question of the OP. But when someone begins a post with a factual error, it should be addressed.
As posted above, Jones has been a below average QB so far in his career. That is not saying he will always be that, but you can’t look at his production through 2 years and conclude he is already as good as most starters in the NFL at this point.
Not sure you can also assume a first round draft pick and a FA WR make the Giants skill players “elite” next year. Rookie WRs usually don’t walk into the NFL and become elite year one. Engram is most certainly not elite, and Barkley is very much a question mark at this point coming off a bad knee injury.
But to answer the question, you get the elite QB. The other pieces are easier to acquire. Elite WRs can be had all through the first and second round, and elite RBs are the same - and sometimes even later. It is much more rare (not impossible) to get an elite QB after the first 10 picks or so. I also believe an elite QB can make average WRs productive enough to win with.
You can win a SB w Mid level QB. Diluted for sure and recently Foles. And look at GB. Rodgers is most likely a top 5 all time QB. And they only have one SB. Too many variables
Rodgers isn’t a good example, McCarthy was an abomination there. Can’t prove it of course but Rodgers has multiple rings with even a decent HC.
This...easily.
Quote:
Latter.
This...easily.
Plus one. And as Jim from Tampa said, Jones isn’t “average” by any measure. Let’s not forget that friggin Tyler Heinicke took his first snaps in 2 plus years vs a talented TB playoff defense and threw for over 300 yards (which Jones never did once all season) and produced 20% of Jones TD production in one game. Jones had a wretched year in 2020, he’s #30 at best at this point.
To rationalize feeling good with Jones at QB, is my guess.
We all get it, in some of you mints the giants are beyond reproach. It’s funny because I used to have discussion about whether Eli was a top 5 qb with friends of other fanbases, knowing he was likely in the top 10 most years. With this qb, the discussion is whether he’s even a starting caliber NFL qb.
Brady
Brad Johnson*
Brady
Brady
Roethlisberger
P. Manning
E. Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
Rodgers
E. Manning
Flacco*
Wilson
Brady
P. Manning
Brady
Foles*
Brady
Mahomes
One of Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen* this year
In 20 years you have *three outliers who aren't going to be in the HOF and Allen a long shot this year who is a physical freak way beyond compare to Daniel Jones. Obviously Mahomes has to continue his play for a while to make the HOF but he's certainly playing at that the highest level possible right now.
So the odds of the Giants winning a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones who is the poster child for JAG aren't very good.
I found what Robert Salah said yesterday about Sam Darnold interesting when compared I compare him to Jones:
Sounds like what people say about Daniel Jones except for the unbelievable arm talent and the natural throwing motion. So basically the Giants have a less talented Sam Darnold who is ridiculed on this site while people defend Daniel Jones as if he could step in for Aaron Rodgers and the Packers would still be in the championship game tomorrow.
Point being, you usually know pretty quickly if you've got a guy or if you don't.
Brady
Brad Johnson*
Brady
Brady
Roethlisberger
P. Manning
E. Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
Rodgers
E. Manning
Flacco*
Wilson
Brady
P. Manning
Brady
Foles*
Brady
Mahomes
One of Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen* this year
In 20 years you have *three outliers who aren't going to be in the HOF and Allen a long shot this year who is a physical freak way beyond compare to Daniel Jones. Obviously Mahomes has to continue his play for a while to make the HOF but he's certainly playing at that the highest level possible right now.
So the odds of the Giants winning a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones who is the poster child for JAG aren't very good.
I found what Robert Salah said yesterday about Sam Darnold interesting when compared I compare him to Jones:
Quote:
“What I can tell you with regards to Sam is he’s got an unbelievable arm talent,” Saleh said. “There’s a reason why he was the No. 3 pick in the draft. He’s fearless in the pocket. He’s got a natural throwing motion. He’s mobile. He’s extremely intelligent. He’s tough as nails. His reputation in the locker room is unquestioned. Just that in general — there’s a reason why he was the third pick in the draft and you can see all those qualities on tape and in the building [from] the way people speak about him.”
Sounds like what people say about Daniel Jones except for the unbelievable arm talent and the natural throwing motion. So basically the Giants have a less talented Sam Darnold who is ridiculed on this site while people defend Daniel Jones as if he could step in for Aaron Rodgers and the Packers would still be in the championship game tomorrow.
The Sam Darnold point is spot on. You couldn’t find a usual suspect on BBI not declaring him a bust after year 2. Meanwhile not only did he have a winning record with arguably a worse oline and skill position players, he also had Adam Gase as his head coach. These same people say Jones showed promise in year 2, and some argued he improved because he marginally cut down on turnovers. The BBI world can certainly be a head scratcher sometimes.
That doesn't really impact the OP question, does it?
This.
I think a lot of Giants fans misunderstand which side of the elite QB/elite skill support they actually fall on when they make their arguments.
Or so it appears.
That's the rub when your QB is an unknown quantity. If he sucks, he might be making pretty good skill position players look mediocre, or vice versa.
Some QBs have an innate ability to elevate the quality of those around them, but those QBs are rare. I think no matter where anyone falls on the DJ evaluation spectrum, we can all agree that he isn't good enough to make chicken salad out of chicken feathers.