I think you are way off. 4-12 did happen but did you see why? He’s playing on a truly terrible franchise and he proved without Watson he can still put up a big time season. They let up almost 30 points a game, you know that right? What does that have to do with Watson?
Only SB winning QBs are worth multiple firsts? How can that even be? If you offered #2, a crappy QB and a 3rd you’d be laughed at.
Watson is worth multiple firsts. And while I don’t expect anyone to give up more than 2 for him they would have to include multiple seconds to make up for it.
Nobody is giving up 3 1sts for that contract. Nobody and then you say multiple 2nds....
Ain't happening.
You are quite simply wrong. If you have a chance to acquire an elite QB you do what it takes.
A number of posters have dissected why trading Watson’s contract would be a benefit to both the Texans and the acquiring team. That won’t get in the way.
When all is said and done my guess is the Texans receive an early first, a young QB, another player, and 2nd round pick.
If the Giants were in the running I’d offer Jones, the 11th pick, 43rd, and Peppers. Probably doesn’t get it done, but that’s a starting point.
A number of posters have dissected why trading Watson’s contract would be a benefit to both the Texans and the acquiring team. That won’t get in the way.
When all is said and done my guess is the Texans receive an early first, a young QB, another player, and 2nd round pick.
If the Giants were in the running I’d offer Jones, the 11th pick, 43rd, and Peppers. Probably doesn’t get it done, but that’s a starting point.
The Texans don't want Jones. Get real. They'll use the Jets #2 to take Fields or Wilson. Then they'll want two more firsts.
I think you are way off. 4-12 did happen but did you see why? He’s playing on a truly terrible franchise and he proved without Watson he can still put up a big time season. They let up almost 30 points a game, you know that right? What does that have to do with Watson?
Only SB winning QBs are worth multiple firsts? How can that even be? If you offered #2, a crappy QB and a 3rd you’d be laughed at.
Watson is worth multiple firsts. And while I don’t expect anyone to give up more than 2 for him they would have to include multiple seconds to make up for it.
Nobody is giving up 3 1sts for that contract. Nobody and then you say multiple 2nds....
Ain't happening.
No I didn’t. I said more than 2 firsts wouldn’t happen (even though he’s worth that) and as a result more would need to be thrown in.
This is an extremely unique and unprecedented scenario so I’m not going to sit and make bold proclamations about it. The last elite player traded under these type of conditions was Khalil Mack which netted 2 firsts (I think a 3rd and 5th but gave back a 2nd). Watson is definitively more valuable and already under contract with the signing bonus already paid.
I think you are way off. 4-12 did happen but did you see why? He’s playing on a truly terrible franchise and he proved without Watson he can still put up a big time season. They let up almost 30 points a game, you know that right? What does that have to do with Watson?
Only SB winning QBs are worth multiple firsts? How can that even be? If you offered #2, a crappy QB and a 3rd you’d be laughed at.
Watson is worth multiple firsts. And while I don’t expect anyone to give up more than 2 for him they would have to include multiple seconds to make up for it.
Nobody is giving up 3 1sts for that contract. Nobody and then you say multiple 2nds....
Ain't happening.
No I didn’t. I said more than 2 firsts wouldn’t happen (even though he’s worth that) and as a result more would need to be thrown in.
This is an extremely unique and unprecedented scenario so I’m not going to sit and make bold proclamations about it. The last elite player traded under these type of conditions was Khalil Mack which netted 2 firsts (I think a 3rd and 5th but gave back a 2nd). Watson is definitively more valuable and already under contract with the signing bonus already paid.
Exactly. Mack got two firsts. Watson is much more valuable than Mack. I'd be stunned if the Texans only got two firsts, unless Watson's leverage stunts what they can get back.
A number of posters have dissected why trading Watson’s contract would be a benefit to both the Texans and the acquiring team. That won’t get in the way.
When all is said and done my guess is the Texans receive an early first, a young QB, another player, and 2nd round pick.
If the Giants were in the running I’d offer Jones, the 11th pick, 43rd, and Peppers. Probably doesn’t get it done, but that’s a starting point.
I think that's a key in this - if the Texans decide to do this, are they more interested in getting a young QB currently in the league (e.g. Jones) or do they want the highest possible first rounder to get a Fields/Wilson/etc.
This is why Gettleman has to at least make a call to Caserio.
If he doesn't do that, it's very, very disappointing...
If he really wants to win that’s the logical choice. They’re a good team that needs a QB. The Jets have been a shitshow for half a century and no coach or QB has been able to turn that around. Parcells came close but Salah ain’t Parcells. If this report is true it tells me Watson is an OBJ type diva who’s more interested in the spotlight than he is in winning
Watson has a no-trade clause, is disgruntled, and they don’t have a coach. If Houston trades, it’s because their hand is forced. They will get a nice return, but I don’t think they will get a massive return. The receiving team has leverage, because he’s willing to there.
Now as a Giants fan, would you trade Jones, Barkley, and the 11th pick?
Watson has a no-trade clause, is disgruntled, and they don’t have a coach. If Houston trades, it’s because their hand is forced. They will get a nice return, but I don’t think they will get a massive return. The receiving team has leverage, because he’s willing to there.
Now as a Giants fan, would you trade Jones, Barkley, and the 11th pick?
As a Jones fan as well as a Barkley fan FUCK YES. But that wont happen you also have to realize how we would be tied to his current contract. But I would fucking do that in a heart beat. Use the 2nd for another receiver and go from there.
It should also be noted I wanted Watson during his draft year. Barkley and Jones are fine and all, but they cannot do what Eatson does. Yes make that move every day and twice on Sundays.
This is not one of the high reputation franchises in the NFL. And I don't think their current owner helps that reputation. And their record speaks for itself.*
Is it possible DeShaun Watson has some connection to the New Jets Head Coach?
*Coincidentally, the Jets and Giants share the exact same record over the past four (in)glorious years. But the Giants organization IMO still has more cred around the league, and Mr. Mara (no matter what one may think of his football acumen) seems to be a very decent person. And one gets the sense (from the outside) that the Giants run a very decent organization.
Watson has a no-trade clause, is disgruntled, and they don’t have a coach. If Houston trades, it’s because their hand is forced. They will get a nice return, but I don’t think they will get a massive return. The receiving team has leverage, because he’s willing to there.
Now as a Giants fan, would you trade Jones, Barkley, and the 11th pick?
For Watson, I'd trade that and not think twice.
RE: RE: RE: This is so similar to the thread last year
Wilson doesn't need to prove he's a Super Bowl winning caliber QB. He's done it, and yeah, I would give 2 firsts for Wilson and then some.
Nobody will pay 3 firsts for Watson and take on that contract. Maybe the only team that would is Houston, but they already have him and they no longer have Bill O'Brien calling the shots. You guys are funny.
You are mistaken. Watson is worth a minimum of two firsts and probably worth three. He is a top 6 qb talent. It is rare when one becomes available. The Jets should seriously consider this if it's real. I wish the Giants had this opportunity.
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is so similar to the thread last year
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
They don't care about that. In their mind the QB can do everything on his own and will his team to victory. I think Watson is in that top 5-10 range and the team won 4 games. The defense was atrocious, the line run blocks well but pass blocks below average. All they have is Watson and a very nice stable of pass catchers.
On flip side of that what team is set up to make a run right now for next 2-3 years and is a QB away willing to mortgage their future? WFT and Miami are only teams that come to mind.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is so similar to the thread last year
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
They don't care about that. In their mind the QB can do everything on his own and will his team to victory. I think Watson is in that top 5-10 range and the team won 4 games. The defense was atrocious, the line run blocks well but pass blocks below average. All they have is Watson and a very nice stable of pass catchers.
On flip side of that what team is set up to make a run right now for next 2-3 years and is a QB away willing to mortgage their future? WFT and Miami are only teams that come to mind.
I would add SF or Rams to that mix of either were to land Watson.
Wilson doesn't need to prove he's a Super Bowl winning caliber QB. He's done it, and yeah, I would give 2 firsts for Wilson and then some.
Nobody will pay 3 firsts for Watson and take on that contract. Maybe the only team that would is Houston, but they already have him and they no longer have Bill O'Brien calling the shots. You guys are funny.
You are mistaken. Watson is worth a minimum of two firsts and probably worth three. He is a top 6 qb talent. It is rare when one becomes available. The Jets should seriously consider this if it's real. I wish the Giants had this opportunity.
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
a large contract for an elite QB is worth the money.. Look at the QBs playing today. It is elite QBs with big contracts (Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady) or a very good QB on a rookie deal (Allen).
It is worth paying an elite QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is so similar to the thread last year
A very simple restructure of the first three years, turning some salary and the roster bonus into a restructure bonus would leave:
21 - 10.5M salary/7.5 bonus (Both GTD) - 18 Cap hit
22 - 17.25M salary/7.5 bonus (Both GTD) - 24.75M Cap hit
23 - 17.25M salary/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 24.75M Cap hit
24 - 32M/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 39.5 Cap hit
25 - 32M /salary/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 39.5 Cap hit
That's a plenty good deal for a very good QB who won't turn 30 until the last year of the contract.
Well done christian...you moonlighting on the side as a cap guy? :)
Seems like quite an opportunity to get some give and take since all those years aren't guaranteed as of yet. Quite frankly, leaving the contract as-is might just be fine too. Issue is the the offer as need to give up a couple of first rounders plus some extra.
RE: RE: This is so similar to the thread last year
Wilson doesn't need to prove he's a Super Bowl winning caliber QB. He's done it, and yeah, I would give 2 firsts for Wilson and then some.
Nobody will pay 3 firsts for Watson and take on that contract. Maybe the only team that would is Houston, but they already have him and they no longer have Bill O'Brien calling the shots. You guys are funny.
I look forward to your posts when Watson is traded for a haul of first and second round picks. He’s done nothing?? Are you not watching the nfl since Watson arrived?
Well done christian...you moonlighting on the side as a cap guy? :)
Seems like quite an opportunity to get some give and take since all those years aren't guaranteed as of yet. Quite frankly, leaving the contract as-is might just be fine too. Issue is the the offer as need to give up a couple of first rounders plus some extra.
The acquisition cost is the question for sure, not the contract.
Anyone who thinks giving a 26-year-old, MVP-type QB, a 5 year/146M contract is prohibitive (especially when renegotiating is to both parties best interest) isn’t on the right track in my view.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is so similar to the thread last year
Well done christian...you moonlighting on the side as a cap guy? :)
Seems like quite an opportunity to get some give and take since all those years aren't guaranteed as of yet. Quite frankly, leaving the contract as-is might just be fine too. Issue is the the offer as need to give up a couple of first rounders plus some extra.
The acquisition cost is the question for sure, not the contract.
Anyone who thinks giving a 26-year-old, MVP-type QB, a 5 year/146M contract is prohibitive (especially when renegotiating is to both parties best interest) isn’t on the right track in my view.
No, of course not. Presume just dug in on keeping status quo.
While even discussing the NY Giants doing something like this sounds a bit nuts, the acquisition cost would obviously be best served if Houston was comfortable taking on Daniel Jones. That would keep the # of draft picks given up to something reasonable. If Jones isn't attractive to them then this would never be feasible.
Watson wanting to go to the Jets is understandable in a way
--from his perspective it's not worse than his current situation, even though the Jets have also been terribly mismanaged
--he gets NY endorsements
--the expectations of that fan base are in the basement so any success he brings them, even a playoff berth or two, will be celebrated
--if he ever wins a SB with them he's immortal because of how poor the Jets history is
Some of you are nuts with this prohibitive contract nonsense. You act like teams don’t pay qbs and add talent at the same time plus the giants would be better simply by adding Watson. A talent like his would represent a “talent upgrade.” The irony when some of you then say the contract would prohibit adding talent....WATSON is the talent.
Watson is the only QB on the market I'd give up significant assets for
because Watson's a young franchise QB and it's highly unlikely Jones will ever be as good as him. In fact, I'd ask Houston what they think of Jones when making the inquiry. The problem is we still probably won't have the assets to trade for him since NYJ can give up #2, another 1st round pick, and Darnold
RE: Watson is the only QB on the market I'd give up significant assets for
because Watson's a young franchise QB and it's highly unlikely Jones will ever be as good as him. In fact, I'd ask Houston what they think of Jones when making the inquiry. The problem is we still probably won't have the assets to trade for him since NYJ can give up #2, another 1st round pick, and Darnold
the texans aren't going to want Jones or Darnold. They will use the Jets' #2 to select a QB. Why does everybody here assume they will take our trash.
If Texans owner is smart, he tells Watson, you play here or play nowhere. Put an end to this crap. Watson is not worth three first round picks. He’s 4-12 without Hopkins. If I am ownership I tell him, we will trade you if you return your signing bonus. Otherwise retire and let the CBA we will go after the signing bonus. Or play.
RE: Watson signed a contract extension September of 2020
If Texans owner is smart, he tells Watson, you play here or play nowhere. Put an end to this crap. Watson is not worth three first round picks. He’s 4-12 without Hopkins. If I am ownership I tell him, we will trade you if you return your signing bonus. Otherwise retire and let the CBA we will go after the signing bonus. Or play.
I agree that if the Texans don't get a fair return they may just call his bluff. That's why I think they will get close to value, which would be three firsts and more, imo
because Watson's a young franchise QB and it's highly unlikely Jones will ever be as good as him. In fact, I'd ask Houston what they think of Jones when making the inquiry. The problem is we still probably won't have the assets to trade for him since NYJ can give up #2, another 1st round pick, and Darnold
the texans aren't going to want Jones or Darnold. They will use the Jets' #2 to select a QB. Why does everybody here assume they will take our trash.
The Texans might want Darnold either as a backup or as trade bait to accumulate even more picks because they would enter a total rebuild
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
Since when is a two way passrushing 3/4 DL not a premium? It’s always been. Always will be.
If we had one, maybe it is. But we don't. And that's because LW hasn't demonstrated an ability to be a highly productive two-way DT year over year. I'm not buying one year as some trend.
Give me a high end QB over the high end DT ALL OF THE TIME.
RE: RE: Watson would be the RIGHT type of talent...
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
Since when is a two way passrushing 3/4 DL not a premium? It’s always been. Always will be.
If we had one, maybe it is. But we don't. And that's because LW hasn't demonstrated an ability to be a highly productive two-way DT year over year. I'm not buying one year as some trend.
Give me a high end QB over the high end DT ALL OF THE TIME.
This is such bullshit. Williams has been highly productive his entire career. You just don’t have the ability to know what’s going on outside of sacks. There’s a lot that goes into playing DT/DE besides just sacks. Using sacks as the only criteria for whether a DT is a premium player really is a litmus test...
And why does it have to be one or the other? There are plenty of teams that have somehow managed to pay a top QB and at the same time pay other players on the team as well.
I don't underestimate pressure. But I don't overestimate it either. We don't remember LT for his pressures. We remember him for his ability to get to the QB and bring him down with the football.
So I don't want to fork out a bunch of cap money for pressures. In this theoretical discussion, I'd rather assume Watson's contract than pay LW.
Hell, without Watson, I'd rather not pay LW. But that's a different discussion.
If he really wants to win that’s the logical choice. They’re a good team that needs a QB. The Jets have been a shitshow for half a century and no coach or QB has been able to turn that around. Parcells came close but Salah ain’t Parcells. If this report is true it tells me Watson is an OBJ type diva who’s more interested in the spotlight than he is in winning
I don’t quite understand this. tua, IMO, isn’t a talent you write off after 10 games - much oh which were credible.
I guess the rookie contracts now - that window you get with a cheap QB means you are looking for accelerated production?
Just don’t think Aikman, Eli, good lord, Terry Bradshaw going way back, would have been given a chance to develop.
Daniel Jones is 8-18 as a starter, and his stats are atrocious.
Let's stick with Jones.
People comparing Watson to Jones are loco.
Quote:
I think you are way off. 4-12 did happen but did you see why? He’s playing on a truly terrible franchise and he proved without Watson he can still put up a big time season. They let up almost 30 points a game, you know that right? What does that have to do with Watson?
Only SB winning QBs are worth multiple firsts? How can that even be? If you offered #2, a crappy QB and a 3rd you’d be laughed at.
Watson is worth multiple firsts. And while I don’t expect anyone to give up more than 2 for him they would have to include multiple seconds to make up for it.
Nobody is giving up 3 1sts for that contract. Nobody and then you say multiple 2nds....
Ain't happening.
You are quite simply wrong. If you have a chance to acquire an elite QB you do what it takes.
When all is said and done my guess is the Texans receive an early first, a young QB, another player, and 2nd round pick.
If the Giants were in the running I’d offer Jones, the 11th pick, 43rd, and Peppers. Probably doesn’t get it done, but that’s a starting point.
When all is said and done my guess is the Texans receive an early first, a young QB, another player, and 2nd round pick.
If the Giants were in the running I’d offer Jones, the 11th pick, 43rd, and Peppers. Probably doesn’t get it done, but that’s a starting point.
The Texans don't want Jones. Get real. They'll use the Jets #2 to take Fields or Wilson. Then they'll want two more firsts.
Quote:
I think you are way off. 4-12 did happen but did you see why? He’s playing on a truly terrible franchise and he proved without Watson he can still put up a big time season. They let up almost 30 points a game, you know that right? What does that have to do with Watson?
Only SB winning QBs are worth multiple firsts? How can that even be? If you offered #2, a crappy QB and a 3rd you’d be laughed at.
Watson is worth multiple firsts. And while I don’t expect anyone to give up more than 2 for him they would have to include multiple seconds to make up for it.
Nobody is giving up 3 1sts for that contract. Nobody and then you say multiple 2nds....
Ain't happening.
No I didn’t. I said more than 2 firsts wouldn’t happen (even though he’s worth that) and as a result more would need to be thrown in.
This is an extremely unique and unprecedented scenario so I’m not going to sit and make bold proclamations about it. The last elite player traded under these type of conditions was Khalil Mack which netted 2 firsts (I think a 3rd and 5th but gave back a 2nd). Watson is definitively more valuable and already under contract with the signing bonus already paid.
Quote:
In comment 15131846 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I think you are way off. 4-12 did happen but did you see why? He’s playing on a truly terrible franchise and he proved without Watson he can still put up a big time season. They let up almost 30 points a game, you know that right? What does that have to do with Watson?
Only SB winning QBs are worth multiple firsts? How can that even be? If you offered #2, a crappy QB and a 3rd you’d be laughed at.
Watson is worth multiple firsts. And while I don’t expect anyone to give up more than 2 for him they would have to include multiple seconds to make up for it.
Nobody is giving up 3 1sts for that contract. Nobody and then you say multiple 2nds....
Ain't happening.
No I didn’t. I said more than 2 firsts wouldn’t happen (even though he’s worth that) and as a result more would need to be thrown in.
This is an extremely unique and unprecedented scenario so I’m not going to sit and make bold proclamations about it. The last elite player traded under these type of conditions was Khalil Mack which netted 2 firsts (I think a 3rd and 5th but gave back a 2nd). Watson is definitively more valuable and already under contract with the signing bonus already paid.
Exactly. Mack got two firsts. Watson is much more valuable than Mack. I'd be stunned if the Texans only got two firsts, unless Watson's leverage stunts what they can get back.
When all is said and done my guess is the Texans receive an early first, a young QB, another player, and 2nd round pick.
If the Giants were in the running I’d offer Jones, the 11th pick, 43rd, and Peppers. Probably doesn’t get it done, but that’s a starting point.
I think that's a key in this - if the Texans decide to do this, are they more interested in getting a young QB currently in the league (e.g. Jones) or do they want the highest possible first rounder to get a Fields/Wilson/etc.
This is why Gettleman has to at least make a call to Caserio.
If he doesn't do that, it's very, very disappointing...
@nfldraftscout
·
22m
Spent today talking to a few sources on the Deshaun Watson story.
No disrespect to other reporters, but I’ve been told the Jets are NOT his preferred destination should a trade take place.
His no trade clause makes this very important.
Obviously there was some confusion between the two NY teams and his actual preference is the Giants.
Now as a Giants fan, would you trade Jones, Barkley, and the 11th pick?
Now as a Giants fan, would you trade Jones, Barkley, and the 11th pick?
As a Jones fan as well as a Barkley fan FUCK YES. But that wont happen you also have to realize how we would be tied to his current contract. But I would fucking do that in a heart beat. Use the 2nd for another receiver and go from there.
It should also be noted I wanted Watson during his draft year. Barkley and Jones are fine and all, but they cannot do what Eatson does. Yes make that move every day and twice on Sundays.
New York Giants (2017 - 2020)
18 Wins
46 Losses
New York Jets (2017 - 2020)
18 Wins
46 Losses
New York Giants
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
2019: 4-12
2020: 6-10
Total: 18-46
New York Jets
2017: 5-11
2018: 4-12
2019: 7-9
2020: 2-14
Total: 18-46
Is it possible DeShaun Watson has some connection to the New Jets Head Coach?
*Coincidentally, the Jets and Giants share the exact same record over the past four (in)glorious years. But the Giants organization IMO still has more cred around the league, and Mr. Mara (no matter what one may think of his football acumen) seems to be a very decent person. And one gets the sense (from the outside) that the Giants run a very decent organization.
Ahh, thanks for info.
I was sorta feeling like adamg -- is this some sorta joke wanting to go to the Jets?
Now it makes a little more sense!
Now as a Giants fan, would you trade Jones, Barkley, and the 11th pick?
For Watson, I'd trade that and not think twice.
Quote:
In comment 15131832 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Where people wouldn’t give up 2 1sts for Wilson.
Wilson doesn't need to prove he's a Super Bowl winning caliber QB. He's done it, and yeah, I would give 2 firsts for Wilson and then some.
Nobody will pay 3 firsts for Watson and take on that contract. Maybe the only team that would is Houston, but they already have him and they no longer have Bill O'Brien calling the shots. You guys are funny.
You are mistaken. Watson is worth a minimum of two firsts and probably worth three. He is a top 6 qb talent. It is rare when one becomes available. The Jets should seriously consider this if it's real. I wish the Giants had this opportunity.
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
They don't care about that. In their mind the QB can do everything on his own and will his team to victory. I think Watson is in that top 5-10 range and the team won 4 games. The defense was atrocious, the line run blocks well but pass blocks below average. All they have is Watson and a very nice stable of pass catchers.
On flip side of that what team is set up to make a run right now for next 2-3 years and is a QB away willing to mortgage their future? WFT and Miami are only teams that come to mind.
Quote:
In comment 15131866 Producer said:
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
They don't care about that. In their mind the QB can do everything on his own and will his team to victory. I think Watson is in that top 5-10 range and the team won 4 games. The defense was atrocious, the line run blocks well but pass blocks below average. All they have is Watson and a very nice stable of pass catchers.
On flip side of that what team is set up to make a run right now for next 2-3 years and is a QB away willing to mortgage their future? WFT and Miami are only teams that come to mind.
I would add SF or Rams to that mix of either were to land Watson.
Quote:
In comment 15131839 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15131832 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Where people wouldn’t give up 2 1sts for Wilson.
Wilson doesn't need to prove he's a Super Bowl winning caliber QB. He's done it, and yeah, I would give 2 firsts for Wilson and then some.
Nobody will pay 3 firsts for Watson and take on that contract. Maybe the only team that would is Houston, but they already have him and they no longer have Bill O'Brien calling the shots. You guys are funny.
You are mistaken. Watson is worth a minimum of two firsts and probably worth three. He is a top 6 qb talent. It is rare when one becomes available. The Jets should seriously consider this if it's real. I wish the Giants had this opportunity.
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
a large contract for an elite QB is worth the money.. Look at the QBs playing today. It is elite QBs with big contracts (Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady) or a very good QB on a rookie deal (Allen).
It is worth paying an elite QB.
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
Any team that would acquire Watson would only have about $10M in salary liability in YR1.
YR2 the cap hit goes to $32M, but the out years can always be re-negotiated.
So the costs aren’t as prohibitive as you suggest.
Copying in a post I shared before. There really isn’t anything prohibitive about Watson’s contract (with a minor update for Milton)
21 - $10.5M salary (GTD)
22 - $35M salary (GTD)
23 - $20M salary/$17M roster bonus (Neither GTD yet)
24 - $32M salary (Not GTD)
25 - $32 salary (Not GTD)
A very simple restructure of the first three years, turning some salary and the roster bonus into a restructure bonus would leave:
21 - 10.5M salary/7.5 bonus (Both GTD) - 18 Cap hit
22 - 17.25M salary/7.5 bonus (Both GTD) - 24.75M Cap hit
23 - 17.25M salary/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 24.75M Cap hit
24 - 32M/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 39.5 Cap hit
25 - 32M /salary/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 39.5 Cap hit
That's a plenty good deal for a very good QB who won't turn 30 until the last year of the contract.
Quote:
Nobody is denying Watson’s talent. The problem is the prohibitive contract that limits the additional talent you can have around him.
Copying in a post I shared before. There really isn’t anything prohibitive about Watson’s contract (with a minor update for Milton)
Quote:
If he were traded, this is the contract a team would acquire:
21 - $10.5M salary (GTD)
22 - $35M salary (GTD)
23 - $20M salary/$17M roster bonus (Neither GTD yet)
24 - $32M salary (Not GTD)
25 - $32 salary (Not GTD)
A very simple restructure of the first three years, turning some salary and the roster bonus into a restructure bonus would leave:
21 - 10.5M salary/7.5 bonus (Both GTD) - 18 Cap hit
22 - 17.25M salary/7.5 bonus (Both GTD) - 24.75M Cap hit
23 - 17.25M salary/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 24.75M Cap hit
24 - 32M/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 39.5 Cap hit
25 - 32M /salary/7.5 bonus (Bonus GTD) - 39.5 Cap hit
That's a plenty good deal for a very good QB who won't turn 30 until the last year of the contract.
Well done christian...you moonlighting on the side as a cap guy? :)
Seems like quite an opportunity to get some give and take since all those years aren't guaranteed as of yet. Quite frankly, leaving the contract as-is might just be fine too. Issue is the the offer as need to give up a couple of first rounders plus some extra.
Quote:
Where people wouldn’t give up 2 1sts for Wilson.
Wilson doesn't need to prove he's a Super Bowl winning caliber QB. He's done it, and yeah, I would give 2 firsts for Wilson and then some.
Nobody will pay 3 firsts for Watson and take on that contract. Maybe the only team that would is Houston, but they already have him and they no longer have Bill O'Brien calling the shots. You guys are funny.
I look forward to your posts when Watson is traded for a haul of first and second round picks. He’s done nothing?? Are you not watching the nfl since Watson arrived?
Daniel Jones is 8-18 as a starter, and his stats are atrocious.
Let's stick with Jones.
One guy has played 53 games.
One guy has played 26 games.
Glad we’re on the same page.
Ps if we traded for Watson I’d be thrilled. But I get the desire to stick with jones for one more year since it’s still early in his career.
Seems like quite an opportunity to get some give and take since all those years aren't guaranteed as of yet. Quite frankly, leaving the contract as-is might just be fine too. Issue is the the offer as need to give up a couple of first rounders plus some extra.
The acquisition cost is the question for sure, not the contract.
Anyone who thinks giving a 26-year-old, MVP-type QB, a 5 year/146M contract is prohibitive (especially when renegotiating is to both parties best interest) isn’t on the right track in my view.
Quote:
Well done christian...you moonlighting on the side as a cap guy? :)
Seems like quite an opportunity to get some give and take since all those years aren't guaranteed as of yet. Quite frankly, leaving the contract as-is might just be fine too. Issue is the the offer as need to give up a couple of first rounders plus some extra.
The acquisition cost is the question for sure, not the contract.
Anyone who thinks giving a 26-year-old, MVP-type QB, a 5 year/146M contract is prohibitive (especially when renegotiating is to both parties best interest) isn’t on the right track in my view.
No, of course not. Presume just dug in on keeping status quo.
While even discussing the NY Giants doing something like this sounds a bit nuts, the acquisition cost would obviously be best served if Houston was comfortable taking on Daniel Jones. That would keep the # of draft picks given up to something reasonable. If Jones isn't attractive to them then this would never be feasible.
--he gets NY endorsements
--the expectations of that fan base are in the basement so any success he brings them, even a playoff berth or two, will be celebrated
--if he ever wins a SB with them he's immortal because of how poor the Jets history is
the texans aren't going to want Jones or Darnold. They will use the Jets' #2 to select a QB. Why does everybody here assume they will take our trash.
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
I agree that if the Texans don't get a fair return they may just call his bluff. That's why I think they will get close to value, which would be three firsts and more, imo
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
Since when is a two way passrushing 3/4 DL not a premium? It’s always been. Always will be.
Quote:
because Watson's a young franchise QB and it's highly unlikely Jones will ever be as good as him. In fact, I'd ask Houston what they think of Jones when making the inquiry. The problem is we still probably won't have the assets to trade for him since NYJ can give up #2, another 1st round pick, and Darnold
the texans aren't going to want Jones or Darnold. They will use the Jets' #2 to select a QB. Why does everybody here assume they will take our trash.
The Texans might want Darnold either as a backup or as trade bait to accumulate even more picks because they would enter a total rebuild
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
What non premium position do you think we’ll be spending on this off-season?
Quote:
to pay because of the premium position.
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
Since when is a two way passrushing 3/4 DL not a premium? It’s always been. Always will be.
If we had one, maybe it is. But we don't. And that's because LW hasn't demonstrated an ability to be a highly productive two-way DT year over year. I'm not buying one year as some trend.
Give me a high end QB over the high end DT ALL OF THE TIME.
Quote:
to pay because of the premium position.
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
What non premium position do you think we’ll be spending on this off-season?
LW as a high end, two way DT.
Look, to be clear, he had a very good year. But one year like that doesn't make a trend. So I'm not buying.
Quote:
In comment 15132329 bw in dc said:
Quote:
to pay because of the premium position.
Unfortunately, we may be doling out big cap dollars for non-premium positions.
Since when is a two way passrushing 3/4 DL not a premium? It’s always been. Always will be.
If we had one, maybe it is. But we don't. And that's because LW hasn't demonstrated an ability to be a highly productive two-way DT year over year. I'm not buying one year as some trend.
Give me a high end QB over the high end DT ALL OF THE TIME.
This is such bullshit. Williams has been highly productive his entire career. You just don’t have the ability to know what’s going on outside of sacks. There’s a lot that goes into playing DT/DE besides just sacks. Using sacks as the only criteria for whether a DT is a premium player really is a litmus test...
And why does it have to be one or the other? There are plenty of teams that have somehow managed to pay a top QB and at the same time pay other players on the team as well.
So I don't want to fork out a bunch of cap money for pressures. In this theoretical discussion, I'd rather assume Watson's contract than pay LW.
Hell, without Watson, I'd rather not pay LW. But that's a different discussion.
I don’t quite understand this. tua, IMO, isn’t a talent you write off after 10 games - much oh which were credible.
I guess the rookie contracts now - that window you get with a cheap QB means you are looking for accelerated production?
Just don’t think Aikman, Eli, good lord, Terry Bradshaw going way back, would have been given a chance to develop.
Really? That's your angle?
Go check out Watson's stat line this year and read about the off-season Houston had last summer.
I guess you overlooked his 2018 and 19 seasons when he made the playoffs.
Watson still has a career winning record even with the team's bad season.
Not sure where you are going with that?
Quote:
Deshaun Watson is 28-25 as a starter, and his stats are excellent.
Daniel Jones is 8-18 as a starter, and his stats are atrocious.
Let's stick with Jones.
One guy has played 53 games.
One guy has played 26 games.
That is true... it's possible Jones closes the gap and proves to be Watson's equal by going on a 20-7 run.