never become a great QB, but he can most likely become at least as successful as Stafford. Hard pass on Stafford
Jones hasn't got a quarter of Stafford's natural talent and the fact that you don't see that shows you haven't got a clue about what you are looking at.
Stafford in his prime, maybe, but Stafford now is even more brittle than Jones. Not to mention that despite his natural talent and having people like Calvin Johnson around him he has won nothing.
never become a great QB, but he can most likely become at least as successful as Stafford. Hard pass on Stafford
Jones hasn't got a quarter of Stafford's natural talent and the fact that you don't see that shows you haven't got a clue about what you are looking at.
Stafford in his prime, maybe, but Stafford now is even more brittle than Jones. Not to mention that despite his natural talent and having people like Calvin Johnson around him he has won nothing.
I'm not saying the Giants should be in on Stafford - I don't think it is their time for a move like that (unlike with the younger Watson). But Stafford is still immensely gifted and Jones will never have his physical traits.
RE: No, its more that Terps has a cult following here
that emerged when we took Jones over Josh Allen. Everybody in that following needed a band leader (think the parent who went after Joe Clark in Lean On Me...thats Terps) to supplement all of the nepotism and good ol boy rhetoric that became the new narrative to resuscitate the same argument from the 70s. That is they spout off enough negative shit, and the Giants are terrible for another 10 years, they get equity or something in the football fan universe.
However, Jones is not THAT bad, has been surrounded by shit on offense and has played with guts. Fact is, we have to pay him 2 more years at least. If he sucks at that point, you crumple it up and try again. But the miserable, Samba wearing gemius who probably sucked at every sport he had ever played because he bitched so much has chosen to double down on the negativity and suggest trading draft/player capital to a team for a 32 y/o QB who hasnt sniffed postseason success despute playing with an all time great WR.
You truly cant make this up. Terps lives to be miserable and thinks thats a good niche spot for himself. Fact is, he is just a pompous dick who got scared away by that meatball Joey in VA.
What a stupid set of posts. People who think the Giants should move on from Jones aren’t a “cult” following a leader. They are people who hold a similar opinion. Why are you so upset that some people hold an opinion different that yours?
And the “I wish I could have played sports against you to watch you whine when you got knocked down?” How insecure are you?
Opinions on the Giants QB shouldn’t scare you, chopper. It will all be ok. Just breathe a little, buddy.
but the injuries make it a no go to part with the assets needed to pull the trade off. He’d be a big upgrade - we run away with the division if we had his 2020 season.
whomever trades for Stafford is on the hook for $20M in 2021 and $23M in 2022.
This would be a better use of money than paying Leonard Williams, and a better use of money than paying a free agent wide receiver.
Trade for Stafford, promote Kitchens to offensive coordinator, win NFC East in 2021.
Sweet Lord, do you watch any Lions games? The fans here in Detroit have hated his contract extension the minute he signed it. He’s not a winner. They basically had no choice but to sign him given their mid first round draft position that year and needs in other areas. He’s now 33 with multiple injuries the past few years. I’m not saying Jones is going to be the guy, but it sure as shit isn’t going to be Stafford. Sign LW, get a stud receiver and give Jones his third season to see what he can do with actual weapons at his disposal.
Remember, Stafford had one of the best receivers in NFL history at his disposal in Calvin Johnson and still didn’t win anything.
^This. Trading Jones and a second round pick for Stafford is ludicrous.
RE: Patriots, Steelers, Redskins, Chicago, San Fran
Probably a 2 and extra high conditional pick for 2022 or player.
I’d give up our 1st in a second for him
You've gotta be kidding with this statement. Giving up a piece with a long term impact for a short term fix is a surefire to fuck this franchise for even longer
whomever trades for Stafford is on the hook for $20M in 2021 and $23M in 2022.
This would be a better use of money than paying Leonard Williams, and a better use of money than paying a free agent wide receiver.
Trade for Stafford, promote Kitchens to offensive coordinator, win NFC East in 2021.
Sweet Lord, do you watch any Lions games? The fans here in Detroit have hated his contract extension the minute he signed it. He’s not a winner. They basically had no choice but to sign him given their mid first round draft position that year and needs in other areas. He’s now 33 with multiple injuries the past few years. I’m not saying Jones is going to be the guy, but it sure as shit isn’t going to be Stafford. Sign LW, get a stud receiver and give Jones his third season to see what he can do with actual weapons at his disposal.
Remember, Stafford had one of the best receivers in NFL history at his disposal in Calvin Johnson and still didn’t win anything.
^This. Trading Jones and a second round pick for Stafford is ludicrous.
Oh.. well if I could have Stafford for Jones and a second round pick, well I'd consider that. Jones is garbage.
RE: RE: No, its more that Terps has a cult following here
that emerged when we took Jones over Josh Allen. Everybody in that following needed a band leader (think the parent who went after Joe Clark in Lean On Me...thats Terps) to supplement all of the nepotism and good ol boy rhetoric that became the new narrative to resuscitate the same argument from the 70s. That is they spout off enough negative shit, and the Giants are terrible for another 10 years, they get equity or something in the football fan universe.
However, Jones is not THAT bad, has been surrounded by shit on offense and has played with guts. Fact is, we have to pay him 2 more years at least. If he sucks at that point, you crumple it up and try again. But the miserable, Samba wearing gemius who probably sucked at every sport he had ever played because he bitched so much has chosen to double down on the negativity and suggest trading draft/player capital to a team for a 32 y/o QB who hasnt sniffed postseason success despute playing with an all time great WR.
You truly cant make this up. Terps lives to be miserable and thinks thats a good niche spot for himself. Fact is, he is just a pompous dick who got scared away by that meatball Joey in VA.
What a stupid set of posts. People who think the Giants should move on from Jones aren’t a “cult” following a leader. They are people who hold a similar opinion. Why are you so upset that some people hold an opinion different that yours?
And the “I wish I could have played sports against you to watch you whine when you got knocked down?” How insecure are you?
Opinions on the Giants QB shouldn’t scare you, chopper. It will all be ok. Just breathe a little, buddy.
Ahhh ok Dr. mike.
It has nothing to do with having a differing opinion and more to do with certain posters going out of their way to bring up Jones' lack of success this season. They say the exact same thing and he does it more than anybody else and people rarely offer any substance to their argument. As in referring to specifics about his game that is not improving. I was very outspoken earlier in the year when he was fumbling a lot still. He started to improve upon it and I moved on. But now, there will be a thread about the line and some asshole with no ability to detach themselves from the mob will comment with "Nick Gates can play Dermonti Dawson and Jones will suck ass." Nothing to do with the topic and its always the same guys.
The comment about sports only had to do with how much I loved to watch guys who bitch and moan on the field /court get knocked around and eventually unravel.
A 33 year old often injured (as he ages) QB. And he “Laps Jones” as a QB yea right, love his athletism with this line he gets sacked 50 times. Some times you people need to think.
have scared a lot of fans here in terms of waiting for a young QB to develop. It usually takes guys a few years for things to click. I remember a lot of people being frustrated with Eli the first few years as well.
The reality is we invested the #6 overall pick in this guy and he has flashed enough to warrant evaluating him in year 3. Not trying to make excuses for him, but he had virtually no weapons once Barkley went down and he was learning his second new offense on his first two years. This being a bizarre offseason certainly didn’t help with that.
Signing a 33 year old QB who has been hurt multiple times the last few seasons is not going to help our team. It’s not like Stafford is a guy who has had tons of success. And he’s had some talented players in his teams over the years.
have scared a lot of fans here in terms of waiting for a young QB to develop. It usually takes guys a few years for things to click. I remember a lot of people being frustrated with Eli the first few years as well.
The reality is we invested the #6 overall pick in this guy and he has flashed enough to warrant evaluating him in year 3. Not trying to make excuses for him, but he had virtually no weapons once Barkley went down and he was learning his second new offense on his first two years. This being a bizarre offseason certainly didn’t help with that.
Signing a 33 year old QB who has been hurt multiple times the last few seasons is not going to help our team. It’s not like Stafford is a guy who has had tons of success. And he’s had some talented players in his teams over the years.
Sorry, I meant to say trading for, not signing Stafford. You would potentially be giving up a first round pick to get him. And you have to pay him 20+ million a year. With the cap decreasing this year that means you are probably losing LW, Tomlinson, no FA receivers, and you lose your first round pick. For a 33 year old QB who is immobile and will have no weapons to throw to. If we lost those 2 defensive lineman there’s no way we would take WR in round 2 or 3.
that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
Exactly, I mean look at Rivers as an example. That’s terrific the Colts got to the playoffs, but where are they now at QB? They won enough games to put them completely out of contention for any of the top QB’s in the draft. Unless they want to give up some crazy haul of picks. Trading for or signing old injured QB’s is not a recipe for success in most cases.
that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
Exactly, I mean look at Rivers as an example. That’s terrific the Colts got to the playoffs, but where are they now at QB? They won enough games to put them completely out of contention for any of the top QB’s in the draft. Unless they want to give up some crazy haul of picks. Trading for or signing old injured QB’s is not a recipe for success in most cases.
Yup, Stafford only makes sense for a team like San Francisco or Indianapolis who have to win now and could see their window for winning shut in a year or two. Stafford isn't good enough to get the Giants to a Super Bowl as currently constructed. The other thing with Stafford is he gets injured a lot so you need to spend money on a backup QB who can play. The Giants aren't doing that so they'd turn Jones into a backup which isn't the point of trying to develop him into a franchise QB. The best case scenario of Stafford with the Giants is maybe one playoff win in two seasons of relative health before he completely falls off a cliff physically.
that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
This is exactly right. Not to mention his salary restricting us from keeping valuable assets and adding pieces to plug holes of which we still have plenty.
I posted that because in many ways I agree with Terps' view on Jones. I am not as strident in that opinion, but I'm tired of having any opinion I post dismissed as being a "negative nelly" or just trying to be a dick.m It is not any kind of outlier opinion to doubt Jones is a franchise QB. Anywhere outside a Giants fan discussion it is actually a pretty widely held opinion.
It would be nice if anyone expressing an opinion on this board could be in some camp other than "Terps" or "ryanmkeane." There is a shit ton of space on that spectrum between those two extremes.
that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
This is exactly right. Not to mention his salary restricting us from keeping valuable assets and adding pieces to plug holes of which we still have plenty.
Well I checked the stats and they don't necessarily say Stafford is cooked. Maybe, but quite possibly he can still play at a high level.
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
Is going to the Niners. That team is prime to return to the playoffs when they get their players back as Stafford would make them an instant contender.
Where is garrapolo going? I’m honestly asking because I have no idea. I’d take him over stafford in a heartbeat. I don’t have Stafford but don’t love go anymore either. I want to find the guy here who likes Stafford right now but wanted Eli dumped prior to 2019. I’ll bet there’s a high number. Eli from 14-16 was pretty good. Probably even better than Stafford or at least a bit more consistent. Not sure how Stafford is so much better. I’d be ok with him, but have a hard time vaulting him to savior status. Maybe in SF if they are healthy, sure, Stafford could help. Why is he better than garrapolo?
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants don't have a quarterback
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
Cap space and at least one high draft pick. We’re not a good enough team to be throwing away first and second round picks for mediocre QB’s.
point about polar opposites in regard to Jones on this board. I consider myself to be in the middle right now. I’ve seen enough flashes to keep me interested, but his fumbles and certain decisions he makes concern me.
To me it comes down to this season. If he doesn’t improve its time to move on.
Detroit has multiple WR who can start for us and a great TE in Hockenson. Not to mention lack of defense caused a lot of inflation from garbage time.
no stats do not lie all the time. Taken as a whole stats tell you who the best QBs are and who the bad QBs are. The stats say Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson are always among the best. They say for 2020 Stafford was somewhere between 10 and 15. And they say Jones was bottom 5. You are just saying stats lie all the time bc they are telling you now that Jones is terrible, and you don't like that conclusion.
that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
This is exactly right. Not to mention his salary restricting us from keeping valuable assets and adding pieces to plug holes of which we still have plenty.
Well I checked the stats and they don't necessarily say Stafford is cooked. Maybe, but quite possibly he can still play at a high level.
Detroit is letting Stafford go because he is close to finished. They are in a rebuild and he won't be good enough to win them games in 2 years when they hope to have a competitive team again. We are also most likely 2 years away from hopefully being good and Stafford will be a very old 35 at that time due to his injury history. If you've ever seen Detroit games, Stafford gets injured constantly so you have to build a dominant OL or have a backup QB almost as good as Stafford if you want to remain competitive over the very short period he is viable...
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants don't have a quarterback
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
I posted that because in many ways I agree with Terps' view on Jones. I am not as strident in that opinion, but I'm tired of having any opinion I post dismissed as being a "negative nelly" or just trying to be a dick.m It is not any kind of outlier opinion to doubt Jones is a franchise QB. Anywhere outside a Giants fan discussion it is actually a pretty widely held opinion.
It would be nice if anyone expressing an opinion on this board could be in some camp other than "Terps" or "ryanmkeane." There is a shit ton of space on that spectrum between those two extremes.
I think there are more than a few not in those camps. To me, any camp saying that Jones is what he is at this point whether good or bad with certainty stand in the way of honest conversation. I have no problem with fans having doubt about Jones, there is good reason from a fan pov to have doubt. Jones also showed in his rookie year why it isn't unreasonable to have hope.
Fans saying that Jones will never get better, or will always have the same fundamental issues seem to hold their opinion high enough to speak in absolutes. That also cuts both ways, if fans on here are talking down to fans that doubt and or speaking with authority that Jones is a franchise qb and anyone that can't see it are full of it just as the other side I spoke about above. Are they deliberately full of it, or just not know any better?
point about polar opposites in regard to Jones on this board. I consider myself to be in the middle right now. I’ve seen enough flashes to keep me interested, but his fumbles and certain decisions he makes concern me.
To me it comes down to this season. If he doesn’t improve its time to move on.
I think it's more likely (80%) that Jones doesn't become a franchise QB but the 20% chance he does is better than the virtually 0% chance you have of playoff success with Stafford on this team
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants don't have a quarterback
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
It takes QB’s more than 2 years to know how good they are in many many cases. From a salary cap perspective you almost have to see how he does. Any trade for a guy like Watson would cost us a ton of cash and draft picks. We’re not one player away from being a good team. If you want to be 8-8 or 9-7 forever go ahead and make a trade for Watson or Stafford. They won’t have any receivers to throw to other than Shepard and our defense will be weakened substantially by losing guys like LW and Tomlinson.
Detroit has multiple WR who can start for us and a great TE in Hockenson. Not to mention lack of defense caused a lot of inflation from garbage time.
no stats do not lie all the time. Taken as a whole stats tell you who the best QBs are and who the bad QBs are. The stats say Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson are always among the best. They say for 2020 Stafford was somewhere between 10 and 15. And they say Jones was bottom 5. You are just saying stats lie all the time bc they are telling you now that Jones is terrible, and you don't like that conclusion.
That is not why I say stats lie. As Watson’s contract is less prohibitive than I thought it was, I would absolutely be in favor of him at the right price. If you had Detroit’s weapons I think Jones ends up 2020 with comparable stats. The difference is Jones still has potential whereas Stafford is on the downside of his career thanks to injuries. For a Day 3 pick I don’t have an issue with Stafford. Anything further no sale.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants don't have a quarterback
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
We don't have the assets to trade for Watson. I agree that he's the guy to pursue but I don't think the Giants can offer what the Jets have (the #2 pick, another 1st round pick and Darnold).
You also misunderstood what I said. I said "maybe two years" if Jones elevates his play to an above average level. If he doesn't then we cut bait after next season and draft another QB. I think there's a 20% chance Jones becomes the guy, but that's better than the 0% chance Stafford has of winning us anything as a veteran stopgap
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants don't have a quarterback
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
We don't have the assets to trade for Watson. I agree that he's the guy to pursue but I don't think the Giants can offer what the Jets have (the #2 pick, another 1st round pick and Darnold).
You also misunderstood what I said. I said "maybe two years" if Jones elevates his play to an above average level. If he doesn't then we cut bait after next season and draft another QB. I think there's a 20% chance Jones becomes the guy, but that's better than the 0% chance Stafford has of winning us anything as a veteran stopgap
I don't favor adding Stafford to this team if the cost is going to be high. But if it's Jones and a 2nd round pick as some have suggested (which I know it is not bc I don't think Detroit wants Jones) I would do that. Stafford has super talent. Jones doesn't.
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
he had is with his back. If that checks out I see a market for him. Yes he is 33 at seasons start but he has tremendous arm talent so I don't see his arm falling off much. I said a while ago Bill B will investigate both Stafford and Ryan.
RE: RE: I figured this thread would somehow turn into
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
I don’t agree. Jones has something that Stafford does not, mobility. In today’s NFL it is much more important for a QB to have some level of mobility. Look at today’s games. The only immobile guy is Brady of the four teams. Rodgers doesn’t run around as much as he used to, but he can if needed.
RE: RE: I figured this thread would somehow turn into
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
Whether you accept it or not? Great take looking for an obvious fight.
Have my doubts on Jones but to suggest he is incapable of reaching Stafford-level heights goes too far.
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
This is not to mention the Giants lacking weapons above a tier 2 receiver and a line that started to come together midway through his second season.
How people can sincerely assess Jones as being a poor QB given what cards he has been dealt is astonishing to me. I have really gone off on Terps but he is fairly on point when it comes to football. I think he gets stuck in a rut and sounds like a broken record when he decides to get on one, but he knows the game.
But aside from the fumbling, he has one very good seadon and one sub par season. He has shown incredible dual threat ability, hes very tough and his teammates like him. He def has work to do, but to say he sucks is just people who want to still be mad we didnt take Josh Allen (either). Its the same thing as when people remain pissed off at Barkley even tho when healthy he is probably the biggest game breaker in the NFL
RE: RE: RE: I figured this thread would somehow turn into
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
Whether you accept it or not? Great take looking for an obvious fight.
Have my doubts on Jones but to suggest he is incapable of reaching Stafford-level heights goes too far.
FUCK Producer. All he produces are garbage thoughts.
if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
RE: RE: I figured this thread would somehow turn into
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
This is not to mention the Giants lacking weapons above a tier 2 receiver and a line that started to come together midway through his second season.
How people can sincerely assess Jones as being a poor QB given what cards he has been dealt is astonishing to me. I have really gone off on Terps but he is fairly on point when it comes to football. I think he gets stuck in a rut and sounds like a broken record when he decides to get on one, but he knows the game.
But aside from the fumbling, he has one very good seadon and one sub par season. He has shown incredible dual threat ability, hes very tough and his teammates like him. He def has work to do, but to say he sucks is just people who want to still be mad we didnt take Josh Allen (either). Its the same thing as when people remain pissed off at Barkley even tho when healthy he is probably the biggest game breaker in the NFL
Totally agree. We weren’t the only team to pass on Allen. But all I keep reading on here now is how many posters thought he was terrific and they wanted him back in that draft. All I remember was the Rosen fan club. I don’t remember many calling for Josh Allen to be drafted at 2.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I figured this thread would somehow turn into
the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
Whether you accept it or not? Great take looking for an obvious fight.
Have my doubts on Jones but to suggest he is incapable of reaching Stafford-level heights goes too far.
FUCK Producer. All he produces are garbage thoughts.
if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
I’m not defending Jones here, he wasn’t very good to say the least. But this team has 8+ wins if Engram could hold on to the damn ball. He was directly respond for 2-3 losses because of his untimely mishaps
if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
I’m not defending Jones here, he wasn’t very good to say the least. But this team has 8+ wins if Engram could hold on to the damn ball. He was directly respond for 2-3 losses because of his untimely mishaps
You may be right. But the reason Engram's crucial plays hurt so much is that the offense couldn't generate points in large part due to poor quarterback play. With competent quarterbacking a couple drops are less likely to be game changers.
Have to improve at QB. Be it through Jones getting better or some other route. You can't survive by hoping to hold the opposition under 20 points.
if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
We would have won at most 8 games with Stafford this year. Maybe he pulls out another game or two to win a weak division. But as a long term answer, he isn't it either
He would be a more than competent placeholder whole we look for the long term answer. The cost isn't exorbitant - were talking about spending the same on a 3-4 DE, and possibly also a WR. Way more bang for the buck with Stafford.
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never become a great QB, but he can most likely become at least as successful as Stafford. Hard pass on Stafford
Jones hasn't got a quarter of Stafford's natural talent and the fact that you don't see that shows you haven't got a clue about what you are looking at.
Stafford in his prime, maybe, but Stafford now is even more brittle than Jones. Not to mention that despite his natural talent and having people like Calvin Johnson around him he has won nothing.
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In comment 15131927 Bill in UT said:
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never become a great QB, but he can most likely become at least as successful as Stafford. Hard pass on Stafford
Jones hasn't got a quarter of Stafford's natural talent and the fact that you don't see that shows you haven't got a clue about what you are looking at.
Stafford in his prime, maybe, but Stafford now is even more brittle than Jones. Not to mention that despite his natural talent and having people like Calvin Johnson around him he has won nothing.
I'm not saying the Giants should be in on Stafford - I don't think it is their time for a move like that (unlike with the younger Watson). But Stafford is still immensely gifted and Jones will never have his physical traits.
However, Jones is not THAT bad, has been surrounded by shit on offense and has played with guts. Fact is, we have to pay him 2 more years at least. If he sucks at that point, you crumple it up and try again. But the miserable, Samba wearing gemius who probably sucked at every sport he had ever played because he bitched so much has chosen to double down on the negativity and suggest trading draft/player capital to a team for a 32 y/o QB who hasnt sniffed postseason success despute playing with an all time great WR.
You truly cant make this up. Terps lives to be miserable and thinks thats a good niche spot for himself. Fact is, he is just a pompous dick who got scared away by that meatball Joey in VA.
What a stupid set of posts. People who think the Giants should move on from Jones aren’t a “cult” following a leader. They are people who hold a similar opinion. Why are you so upset that some people hold an opinion different that yours?
And the “I wish I could have played sports against you to watch you whine when you got knocked down?” How insecure are you?
Opinions on the Giants QB shouldn’t scare you, chopper. It will all be ok. Just breathe a little, buddy.
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whomever trades for Stafford is on the hook for $20M in 2021 and $23M in 2022.
This would be a better use of money than paying Leonard Williams, and a better use of money than paying a free agent wide receiver.
Trade for Stafford, promote Kitchens to offensive coordinator, win NFC East in 2021.
Sweet Lord, do you watch any Lions games? The fans here in Detroit have hated his contract extension the minute he signed it. He’s not a winner. They basically had no choice but to sign him given their mid first round draft position that year and needs in other areas. He’s now 33 with multiple injuries the past few years. I’m not saying Jones is going to be the guy, but it sure as shit isn’t going to be Stafford. Sign LW, get a stud receiver and give Jones his third season to see what he can do with actual weapons at his disposal.
Remember, Stafford had one of the best receivers in NFL history at his disposal in Calvin Johnson and still didn’t win anything.
^This. Trading Jones and a second round pick for Stafford is ludicrous.
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Probably a 2 and extra high conditional pick for 2022 or player.
I’d give up our 1st in a second for him
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In comment 15132038 Go Terps said:
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whomever trades for Stafford is on the hook for $20M in 2021 and $23M in 2022.
This would be a better use of money than paying Leonard Williams, and a better use of money than paying a free agent wide receiver.
Trade for Stafford, promote Kitchens to offensive coordinator, win NFC East in 2021.
Sweet Lord, do you watch any Lions games? The fans here in Detroit have hated his contract extension the minute he signed it. He’s not a winner. They basically had no choice but to sign him given their mid first round draft position that year and needs in other areas. He’s now 33 with multiple injuries the past few years. I’m not saying Jones is going to be the guy, but it sure as shit isn’t going to be Stafford. Sign LW, get a stud receiver and give Jones his third season to see what he can do with actual weapons at his disposal.
Remember, Stafford had one of the best receivers in NFL history at his disposal in Calvin Johnson and still didn’t win anything.
^This. Trading Jones and a second round pick for Stafford is ludicrous.
Oh.. well if I could have Stafford for Jones and a second round pick, well I'd consider that. Jones is garbage.
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that emerged when we took Jones over Josh Allen. Everybody in that following needed a band leader (think the parent who went after Joe Clark in Lean On Me...thats Terps) to supplement all of the nepotism and good ol boy rhetoric that became the new narrative to resuscitate the same argument from the 70s. That is they spout off enough negative shit, and the Giants are terrible for another 10 years, they get equity or something in the football fan universe.
However, Jones is not THAT bad, has been surrounded by shit on offense and has played with guts. Fact is, we have to pay him 2 more years at least. If he sucks at that point, you crumple it up and try again. But the miserable, Samba wearing gemius who probably sucked at every sport he had ever played because he bitched so much has chosen to double down on the negativity and suggest trading draft/player capital to a team for a 32 y/o QB who hasnt sniffed postseason success despute playing with an all time great WR.
You truly cant make this up. Terps lives to be miserable and thinks thats a good niche spot for himself. Fact is, he is just a pompous dick who got scared away by that meatball Joey in VA.
What a stupid set of posts. People who think the Giants should move on from Jones aren’t a “cult” following a leader. They are people who hold a similar opinion. Why are you so upset that some people hold an opinion different that yours?
And the “I wish I could have played sports against you to watch you whine when you got knocked down?” How insecure are you?
Opinions on the Giants QB shouldn’t scare you, chopper. It will all be ok. Just breathe a little, buddy.
Ahhh ok Dr. mike.
It has nothing to do with having a differing opinion and more to do with certain posters going out of their way to bring up Jones' lack of success this season. They say the exact same thing and he does it more than anybody else and people rarely offer any substance to their argument. As in referring to specifics about his game that is not improving. I was very outspoken earlier in the year when he was fumbling a lot still. He started to improve upon it and I moved on. But now, there will be a thread about the line and some asshole with no ability to detach themselves from the mob will comment with "Nick Gates can play Dermonti Dawson and Jones will suck ass." Nothing to do with the topic and its always the same guys.
The comment about sports only had to do with how much I loved to watch guys who bitch and moan on the field /court get knocked around and eventually unravel.
The reality is we invested the #6 overall pick in this guy and he has flashed enough to warrant evaluating him in year 3. Not trying to make excuses for him, but he had virtually no weapons once Barkley went down and he was learning his second new offense on his first two years. This being a bizarre offseason certainly didn’t help with that.
Signing a 33 year old QB who has been hurt multiple times the last few seasons is not going to help our team. It’s not like Stafford is a guy who has had tons of success. And he’s had some talented players in his teams over the years.
The reality is we invested the #6 overall pick in this guy and he has flashed enough to warrant evaluating him in year 3. Not trying to make excuses for him, but he had virtually no weapons once Barkley went down and he was learning his second new offense on his first two years. This being a bizarre offseason certainly didn’t help with that.
Signing a 33 year old QB who has been hurt multiple times the last few seasons is not going to help our team. It’s not like Stafford is a guy who has had tons of success. And he’s had some talented players in his teams over the years.
Sorry, I meant to say trading for, not signing Stafford. You would potentially be giving up a first round pick to get him. And you have to pay him 20+ million a year. With the cap decreasing this year that means you are probably losing LW, Tomlinson, no FA receivers, and you lose your first round pick. For a 33 year old QB who is immobile and will have no weapons to throw to. If we lost those 2 defensive lineman there’s no way we would take WR in round 2 or 3.
Exactly, I mean look at Rivers as an example. That’s terrific the Colts got to the playoffs, but where are they now at QB? They won enough games to put them completely out of contention for any of the top QB’s in the draft. Unless they want to give up some crazy haul of picks. Trading for or signing old injured QB’s is not a recipe for success in most cases.
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that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
Exactly, I mean look at Rivers as an example. That’s terrific the Colts got to the playoffs, but where are they now at QB? They won enough games to put them completely out of contention for any of the top QB’s in the draft. Unless they want to give up some crazy haul of picks. Trading for or signing old injured QB’s is not a recipe for success in most cases.
Yup, Stafford only makes sense for a team like San Francisco or Indianapolis who have to win now and could see their window for winning shut in a year or two. Stafford isn't good enough to get the Giants to a Super Bowl as currently constructed. The other thing with Stafford is he gets injured a lot so you need to spend money on a backup QB who can play. The Giants aren't doing that so they'd turn Jones into a backup which isn't the point of trying to develop him into a franchise QB. The best case scenario of Stafford with the Giants is maybe one playoff win in two seasons of relative health before he completely falls off a cliff physically.
This is exactly right. Not to mention his salary restricting us from keeping valuable assets and adding pieces to plug holes of which we still have plenty.
It would be nice if anyone expressing an opinion on this board could be in some camp other than "Terps" or "ryanmkeane." There is a shit ton of space on that spectrum between those two extremes.
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that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
This is exactly right. Not to mention his salary restricting us from keeping valuable assets and adding pieces to plug holes of which we still have plenty.
Well I checked the stats and they don't necessarily say Stafford is cooked. Maybe, but quite possibly he can still play at a high level.
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In comment 15132005 Go Terps said:
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They just haven't accepted it yet.
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
Where is garrapolo going? I’m honestly asking because I have no idea. I’d take him over stafford in a heartbeat. I don’t have Stafford but don’t love go anymore either. I want to find the guy here who likes Stafford right now but wanted Eli dumped prior to 2019. I’ll bet there’s a high number. Eli from 14-16 was pretty good. Probably even better than Stafford or at least a bit more consistent. Not sure how Stafford is so much better. I’d be ok with him, but have a hard time vaulting him to savior status. Maybe in SF if they are healthy, sure, Stafford could help. Why is he better than garrapolo?
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In comment 15132010 rasbutant said:
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In comment 15132005 Go Terps said:
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They just haven't accepted it yet.
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
Cap space and at least one high draft pick. We’re not a good enough team to be throwing away first and second round picks for mediocre QB’s.
To me it comes down to this season. If he doesn’t improve its time to move on.
no stats do not lie all the time. Taken as a whole stats tell you who the best QBs are and who the bad QBs are. The stats say Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson are always among the best. They say for 2020 Stafford was somewhere between 10 and 15. And they say Jones was bottom 5. You are just saying stats lie all the time bc they are telling you now that Jones is terrible, and you don't like that conclusion.
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In comment 15132291 dpinzow said:
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that's the reason why he and Detroit are parting ways. He's taken such a beating throughout his career that he's at least 5 years worse off physically than he should be. If we got Stafford it would be a 1-2 year stopgap at best. We still wouldn't get close to a Super Bowl and we wouldn't be closer to getting a franchise QB than just letting Jones play out another year, maybe two and seeing him fail. Anybody advocating us picking up Stafford and actually thinking he'd bring us a Super Bowl is out of their minds
This is exactly right. Not to mention his salary restricting us from keeping valuable assets and adding pieces to plug holes of which we still have plenty.
Well I checked the stats and they don't necessarily say Stafford is cooked. Maybe, but quite possibly he can still play at a high level.
Detroit is letting Stafford go because he is close to finished. They are in a rebuild and he won't be good enough to win them games in 2 years when they hope to have a competitive team again. We are also most likely 2 years away from hopefully being good and Stafford will be a very old 35 at that time due to his injury history. If you've ever seen Detroit games, Stafford gets injured constantly so you have to build a dominant OL or have a backup QB almost as good as Stafford if you want to remain competitive over the very short period he is viable...
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In comment 15132010 rasbutant said:
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In comment 15132005 Go Terps said:
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They just haven't accepted it yet.
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
It would be nice if anyone expressing an opinion on this board could be in some camp other than "Terps" or "ryanmkeane." There is a shit ton of space on that spectrum between those two extremes.
I think there are more than a few not in those camps. To me, any camp saying that Jones is what he is at this point whether good or bad with certainty stand in the way of honest conversation. I have no problem with fans having doubt about Jones, there is good reason from a fan pov to have doubt. Jones also showed in his rookie year why it isn't unreasonable to have hope.
Fans saying that Jones will never get better, or will always have the same fundamental issues seem to hold their opinion high enough to speak in absolutes. That also cuts both ways, if fans on here are talking down to fans that doubt and or speaking with authority that Jones is a franchise qb and anyone that can't see it are full of it just as the other side I spoke about above. Are they deliberately full of it, or just not know any better?
To me it comes down to this season. If he doesn’t improve its time to move on.
I think it's more likely (80%) that Jones doesn't become a franchise QB but the 20% chance he does is better than the virtually 0% chance you have of playoff success with Stafford on this team
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In comment 15132012 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15132010 rasbutant said:
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In comment 15132005 Go Terps said:
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They just haven't accepted it yet.
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
It takes QB’s more than 2 years to know how good they are in many many cases. From a salary cap perspective you almost have to see how he does. Any trade for a guy like Watson would cost us a ton of cash and draft picks. We’re not one player away from being a good team. If you want to be 8-8 or 9-7 forever go ahead and make a trade for Watson or Stafford. They won’t have any receivers to throw to other than Shepard and our defense will be weakened substantially by losing guys like LW and Tomlinson.
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Detroit has multiple WR who can start for us and a great TE in Hockenson. Not to mention lack of defense caused a lot of inflation from garbage time.
no stats do not lie all the time. Taken as a whole stats tell you who the best QBs are and who the bad QBs are. The stats say Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson are always among the best. They say for 2020 Stafford was somewhere between 10 and 15. And they say Jones was bottom 5. You are just saying stats lie all the time bc they are telling you now that Jones is terrible, and you don't like that conclusion.
That is not why I say stats lie. As Watson’s contract is less prohibitive than I thought it was, I would absolutely be in favor of him at the right price. If you had Detroit’s weapons I think Jones ends up 2020 with comparable stats. The difference is Jones still has potential whereas Stafford is on the downside of his career thanks to injuries. For a Day 3 pick I don’t have an issue with Stafford. Anything further no sale.
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In comment 15132012 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15132010 rasbutant said:
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In comment 15132005 Go Terps said:
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They just haven't accepted it yet.
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
We don't have the assets to trade for Watson. I agree that he's the guy to pursue but I don't think the Giants can offer what the Jets have (the #2 pick, another 1st round pick and Darnold).
You also misunderstood what I said. I said "maybe two years" if Jones elevates his play to an above average level. If he doesn't then we cut bait after next season and draft another QB. I think there's a 20% chance Jones becomes the guy, but that's better than the 0% chance Stafford has of winning us anything as a veteran stopgap
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In comment 15132326 dpinzow said:
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In comment 15132012 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15132010 rasbutant said:
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In comment 15132005 Go Terps said:
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They just haven't accepted it yet.
What's a better team in 2021? The Giants with Jones and Garrett as the OC? Or Stafford and Kitchens as the OC?
Everyone is talking about how they want to acquire wife receiver talent - that isn't going to make the offense much better. It may elevate the 31st offense to the 24th, but it will still be bad.
Trade for Stafford (offer Detroit Jones and a second rounder...that might do it) and make Kitchens the OC, and that will improve the offense more than any FA or draft picks could.
We don't have a quarterback. It's just a matter of whether we accept that now or next year.
I hope you are wrong. But I can understand the viewpoint. Jones has proven nothing to this point. But I am rooting for him and I want him to succeed. His demeanor and attitude just the way he carries himself he will make a great face of the franchise. However he has to be good enough to win.
We’d be lucky to have Stafford at QB. Just really really hoping he doesn’t go to the WFT.
I hope I'm wrong too. I'm rooting for him... Jones being great is by far the best scenario for the Giants. But wanting it doesn't mean anything, and buying our heads in the sand and pretending doesn't make us better fans. It just makes us dumb.
Jones being great is the scenario we have to pursue for one more year, maybe two if he improves a lot next year and becomes very good. The scenario we can't pursue is giving up a lot of cap space for an over the hill QB in Stafford who you know can't get better and won't make us that much better than 8-8 or 9-7 in a stopgap year or two
You would waste two more years waiting for Jones to play well? That is insane, and if the Giants follow your lead I will stop watching until they come to their senses are run themselves like a modern organization. He has done nothing to show he is capable of being a championship QB. They should consider drafting a QB in the first round of there is one available who they like.. Or better yet try to trade for Watson.
We don't have the assets to trade for Watson. I agree that he's the guy to pursue but I don't think the Giants can offer what the Jets have (the #2 pick, another 1st round pick and Darnold).
You also misunderstood what I said. I said "maybe two years" if Jones elevates his play to an above average level. If he doesn't then we cut bait after next season and draft another QB. I think there's a 20% chance Jones becomes the guy, but that's better than the 0% chance Stafford has of winning us anything as a veteran stopgap
I don't favor adding Stafford to this team if the cost is going to be high. But if it's Jones and a 2nd round pick as some have suggested (which I know it is not bc I don't think Detroit wants Jones) I would do that. Stafford has super talent. Jones doesn't.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
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the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
I don’t agree. Jones has something that Stafford does not, mobility. In today’s NFL it is much more important for a QB to have some level of mobility. Look at today’s games. The only immobile guy is Brady of the four teams. Rodgers doesn’t run around as much as he used to, but he can if needed.
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the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
Whether you accept it or not? Great take looking for an obvious fight.
Have my doubts on Jones but to suggest he is incapable of reaching Stafford-level heights goes too far.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
This is not to mention the Giants lacking weapons above a tier 2 receiver and a line that started to come together midway through his second season.
How people can sincerely assess Jones as being a poor QB given what cards he has been dealt is astonishing to me. I have really gone off on Terps but he is fairly on point when it comes to football. I think he gets stuck in a rut and sounds like a broken record when he decides to get on one, but he knows the game.
But aside from the fumbling, he has one very good seadon and one sub par season. He has shown incredible dual threat ability, hes very tough and his teammates like him. He def has work to do, but to say he sucks is just people who want to still be mad we didnt take Josh Allen (either). Its the same thing as when people remain pissed off at Barkley even tho when healthy he is probably the biggest game breaker in the NFL
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In comment 15132370 ryanmkeane said:
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the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
Whether you accept it or not? Great take looking for an obvious fight.
Have my doubts on Jones but to suggest he is incapable of reaching Stafford-level heights goes too far.
FUCK Producer. All he produces are garbage thoughts.
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
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the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
This is not to mention the Giants lacking weapons above a tier 2 receiver and a line that started to come together midway through his second season.
How people can sincerely assess Jones as being a poor QB given what cards he has been dealt is astonishing to me. I have really gone off on Terps but he is fairly on point when it comes to football. I think he gets stuck in a rut and sounds like a broken record when he decides to get on one, but he knows the game.
But aside from the fumbling, he has one very good seadon and one sub par season. He has shown incredible dual threat ability, hes very tough and his teammates like him. He def has work to do, but to say he sucks is just people who want to still be mad we didnt take Josh Allen (either). Its the same thing as when people remain pissed off at Barkley even tho when healthy he is probably the biggest game breaker in the NFL
Totally agree. We weren’t the only team to pass on Allen. But all I keep reading on here now is how many posters thought he was terrific and they wanted him back in that draft. All I remember was the Rosen fan club. I don’t remember many calling for Josh Allen to be drafted at 2.
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In comment 15132374 Producer said:
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In comment 15132370 ryanmkeane said:
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the negative shit about Jones. Everyone seems to love Matthew Stafford - but for all you stats guys who somehow love Stafford- let’s take a look at his career as a whole. He went 13 TD and 20 picks as a rookie, was then hurt for basically the entire season in his second year, had a great year 3, and then after that, he’s averaged basically 26-27 TD and around 15 picks every season since. His best year aside from year 3 was 32 and 13 in 2015 which was his *7th* year in the league.
So, sorry guys but I’m not buying this notion that Daniel Jones can’t become as good or better than Matthew Stafford. And it’s funny how everything thinks stats are the perfect measure for a franchise QB, but Stafford really hasn’t been all that impressive throughout his career when it comes to that. He’s been a pretty good to very good QB for them. But there’s a reason they are moving on.
Daniel Jones will not ever be as good as Matthew Stafford, whether you accept it or not.
Whether you accept it or not? Great take looking for an obvious fight.
Have my doubts on Jones but to suggest he is incapable of reaching Stafford-level heights goes too far.
FUCK Producer. All he produces are garbage thoughts.
I think it's Go Terps' dupe
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
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if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
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In comment 15132649 ryanmkeane said:
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if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
I’m not defending Jones here, he wasn’t very good to say the least. But this team has 8+ wins if Engram could hold on to the damn ball. He was directly respond for 2-3 losses because of his untimely mishaps
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In comment 15132905 christian said:
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In comment 15132649 ryanmkeane said:
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if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
I’m not defending Jones here, he wasn’t very good to say the least. But this team has 8+ wins if Engram could hold on to the damn ball. He was directly respond for 2-3 losses because of his untimely mishaps
You may be right. But the reason Engram's crucial plays hurt so much is that the offense couldn't generate points in large part due to poor quarterback play. With competent quarterbacking a couple drops are less likely to be game changers.
Have to improve at QB. Be it through Jones getting better or some other route. You can't survive by hoping to hold the opposition under 20 points.
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In comment 15132649 ryanmkeane said:
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if everyone is making the argument that Stafford is a franchise QB, why hasn’t he “elevated his teammates” and won some playoff games? Why doesn’t he have amazing stats? These are things you are asking Jones to do right? In year 3 right?
You guys cannot make different arguments at the same time. Stick to one.
Stafford has all the stats, that’s a weird thing to bring up.
Stafford had a top 30 all time season as a QB in his 3rd season and won 10 games. If Jones goes 5K and 41/16 next year — literally every poster on this site will be praising him.
We've talked before about the importance of timing along with resource allocation. Stafford's got two years left on his deal - good amount of time for them to figure out the future at the position while still remaining competitive now.
If we're equating dollars to wins, it's a better use of $20M than it would be to pay Williams, and certainly better than paying a free agent WR.
We would have won 8+ games with Stafford this season.
We would have won at most 8 games with Stafford this year. Maybe he pulls out another game or two to win a weak division. But as a long term answer, he isn't it either