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Coughlin & Eli winning 2 titles is an enormous feat-

Sean : 1/24/2021 6:26 pm
I started a thread last week on this, but deleted it. This week, I’ve got to leave it up. As each year passes, I’m more impressed that Coughlin & Eli won *two* titles in their tenure here. It’s so hard to do, as we just watched the Packers lose at home. We watched the Saints lose last week at home.

Just an incredible accomplishment.
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Blowhard know-it-alls  
LBH15 : 1/24/2021 11:15 pm : link
Sitting on couches.
I  
crick n NC : 1/25/2021 2:40 am : link
Will always be thankful for those two championships. A lot of fans go their whole lives never experiencing a single one. I am grateful to the ownership, front office and all of the players and coaches of those two amazing runs.
I still don't get this whole obsession with "moving on"  
Debaser : 1/25/2021 7:05 am : link
from franchise QBs. I mean I remember when the Dolphins wanted to move on from marino who looked to be in even worse shape than Eli in his last year. It just led to a revolving door of QBs for 20 years and counting now and never winning anything basically.

Coughlin was already a good coach. He took J'ville to the AFC championship twice--an xpansion team.

Eli still could have played out his contract and they should have got herbert. but then do that to eli. The rosters have sucked since 2012.

Mcadoo pfff. Mcadoo wouldn't know what to with mahomes even if he got him. Andy Reid's play calling and his roster has a lot to do with Mahomes.

Mcadoo predictable high school playcalling and no motion offense.

Why bother , the "I want the world" poster got it right. Yea sure and Lamar Jackson is good QB pfff. he is Rg3 part 2 and will end up just like him.
Trolls with two handles  
Britt in VA : 1/25/2021 7:48 am : link
Only post to start shit, nothing of substance.
Since we're writing Haiku's and all.  
Britt in VA : 1/25/2021 7:48 am : link
.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/25/2021 8:04 am : link
Mara got sentimental with Eli & we definitely should have moved on before, but what's done is done. Gotta move forward.
Eli  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/25/2021 9:07 am : link
He definitely could have had a much better back end of his career. As he got older he needed a little more support. Unfortunately the Giants continued to weaken which magnified a diminishing Eli.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/25/2021 9:25 am : link
Agreed, Sean.

I look at 2008 and 2010 as years we were contenders and didn't win it all. But the Saints/Packers/Peyton Colts have around ten 'missed' years. And they only got one a piece.

And I didn't think that 07 team was going to be a SB contender going into that year.

This is also why Eli has to be a HOF'er IMO. He was the best QB in the most important part of the season twice. He was the MVP in the most important game of the season twice. It's a remarkable feat - especially compared to his peers who were better players each year.
And that accomplishment was in spite of  
BelieveJJ : 1/25/2021 9:30 am : link
the Maras, DG, and Jints Central!!!

When you consider all that, it makes the parting of the Red Sea look pretty minor.
RE: ...  
Sean : 1/25/2021 9:47 am : link
In comment 15133642 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Mara got sentimental with Eli & we definitely should have moved on before, but what's done is done. Gotta move forward.


Selfishly, I don’t mind. Imagine Eli in his induction ceremony talking about the two years he played with Jacksonville? I know it shouldn’t matter, but I like how he only played for the Giants.

So maybe the Giants go 7-9 instead of 4-12 / 5-11 if they move on sooner, but glad he wore no other uniform.
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2021 10:16 am : link
great coaching, clutch QB play, and a little bit of luck is the formula for winning SBs.
RE: Everything since about 2014 has been a nostalgia tour  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15133414 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The best thing this front office can do is forget those titles happened. Time to flip the calendar already.

2019 and 2020 was a nostalgia tour?
..  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2021 10:21 am : link
Going 7-9 with Teddy Bridgewater in 2018 would have been SO much better than going 5-11 with Eli.
RE: And that accomplishment was in spite of  
Sean : 1/25/2021 10:57 am : link
In comment 15133725 BelieveJJ said:
Quote:
the Maras, DG, and Jints Central!!!

When you consider all that, it makes the parting of the Red Sea look pretty minor.


So, Mara gets no credit for retaining Coughlin after 2006 and 2010? BBI was ugly back in January of 2007 when Coughlin was retained, the majority here wanted him gone so Charlie Weiss could “fix” Eli. There was a portion here who wanted Coughlin gone after 2010 as well.

That was a time where patience paid off very well for John Mara and he 100% deserves credit for that.
RE: Blowhard know-it-alls  
BubbaMojo : 1/25/2021 10:59 am : link
In comment 15133474 LBH15 said:
Quote:
Sitting on couches.


Going to log in as Googs or LBH15 today? Maybe do an every other day thing?
The Best  
rocco8112 : 1/25/2021 1:16 pm : link
If they infused that mercenary Defensive talent in 2016 and kept TC on, might have won three. The offense was rebuilt nafter 2013, just couldn't get any defense.

Worst move ever was forcing TC out and promoting his suboridate. He rode a team he didn't build and the free agent d improvements to 11 wins and a circus lead up to a wild card round loss before presiding over the destruction of the team.

History has proven this move, and subsequent moves after, drove the franchise into the ground. Should have given Coughlin 2016.

Eli, bringing him back in 2019 was dumb. But, end of 2018 was the last time the team looked like it had any type of consistent offense. Eli could probably still produce on a good squad. Look how the Saints carried a one armed Brees to the divisional round. If the Titans or Rams had a 2018 type Eli this year, they may have won it all.

Amazing to win two titles.
RE: RE: Everything since about 2014 has been a nostalgia tour  
Go Terps : 1/25/2021 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15133787 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15133414 Go Terps said:


Quote:


The best thing this front office can do is forget those titles happened. Time to flip the calendar already.


2019 and 2020 was a nostalgia tour?


Absolutely. Sticking with Eli, and drafting what they view as an Eli clone...they are so insulated in their views they could be posters on BBI. You can bet your house Mara is thinking about Eli in 2007 when thinking about what to do with Jones now.

The best thing for the organization and for Eli would have been for him to leave in 2014 or so. He wouldn't have had such a disastrous second half of his career, and the Giants could have stopped trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

The best thing they can do now is populate the organization with people that don't give a shit about Eli. What we had with him is not relevant to today. Eli may as well be YA Tittle.
Both post season runs  
Les in TO : 1/25/2021 1:46 pm : link
Were unbelievable and unique. It is possible to believe that the Giants held on to both too long AND the talent replenishment was not up to par (not to mention bad luck in career limiting or ending injuries to high draft picks such as Phillips, Smith, Nicks, Thomas and Wilson really set the team back).
RE: The Best  
MookGiants : 1/25/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15134095 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
If they infused that mercenary Defensive talent in 2016 and kept TC on, might have won three. The offense was rebuilt nafter 2013, just couldn't get any defense.

Worst move ever was forcing TC out and promoting his suboridate. He rode a team he didn't build and the free agent d improvements to 11 wins and a circus lead up to a wild card round loss before presiding over the destruction of the team.

History has proven this move, and subsequent moves after, drove the franchise into the ground. Should have given Coughlin 2016.

Eli, bringing him back in 2019 was dumb. But, end of 2018 was the last time the team looked like it had any type of consistent offense. Eli could probably still produce on a good squad. Look how the Saints carried a one armed Brees to the divisional round. If the Titans or Rams had a 2018 type Eli this year, they may have won it all.

Amazing to win two titles.


Eli's 2018 season wasn't even in the ballpark of Tannehill's 2020 season. Tannehill had 33 touchdowns to 7 interceptions this year. He wasn't holding them back. Their defense being atrocious was what held them back.
you could make the same case about Eli's 2018 season  
Debaser : 1/26/2021 3:47 am : link
...the defense was atrocious like it looked like college football bad tackling. You couple that with swiss cheese oline and is it any wonder Eli looked didn't have good stats. I watched a 43 year old brady yesterday play on a team that made correct roster moves to help him win games; something the giants should have done with eli.

Are we still holding fantasies that the Mara's will do what the Ravens did and build a team around a lamar jackson type? It's not because it isn't the giants way -- they won't because it is dumb. When all the hype and all the bs is done and lamar ends up hurt or they finally realize you can't win anything in the playoffs with that kind of qb play ; you'll see the ravens yet again get another qb and start all over again after the years long set back.
RE: ..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/26/2021 7:27 am : link
In comment 15133791 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Going 7-9 with Teddy Bridgewater in 2018 would have been SO much better than going 5-11 with Eli.


The ironic thing is. People said Bridgewater would come cheap. Well ask the Panthers what they think about that now. They are basically stuck with him this season with his $23M next season.

He signed a 3 year $63M contract with $33M in guaranteed money.
My take of Eli....he was the best offensive player in last playoff  
George from PA : 1/26/2021 8:14 am : link
The guy had a heart of lion..he always rose to the occasion....and most of us felt a 3rd Super Bowl was destined..

Now, he never was shifty...and I feel defenses adjusted to the offense friendly NFL rules....and to counter....teams needed more mobile QBs to succeed....or great OL. The Giants had neither.
the weird part  
giantfan2000 : 1/26/2021 9:08 am : link
we barely made the playoff during TC and Eli's other years
and both runs we had lousy season records that barely got us in the playoffs

We made the playoffs..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/26/2021 9:12 am : link
4 straight years and Coughlin went 8 consecutive seasons without being below .500

That was pretty damn consistent
The lost cause  
HomerJones45 : 1/26/2021 9:14 am : link
Quote:
McAdoo was right about 2 things. Eli being finished and Patrick Mahomes.


McAdoo as idiot savant. Check. Mahomes wasn't exactly a state secret so him being "right about Mahomes" was not some exercise in prescience.

McAdoo was fired and will never be a HC in the NFL again. This is the guy you have hitched your wagon to. Good luck.

This is all water under the bridge. There were several ways to play this out, and the team chose the way they chose. You all see the results.
I still  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/26/2021 9:16 am : link
maintain that several years from now, we'll have this narrative on the board that McAdoo not only wanted Mahomes, but resigned in anger after his wishes weren't heeded.

It is one of the most overblown things posted on BBI
RE: the weird part  
SomeFan : 1/26/2021 9:19 am : link
In comment 15134588 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
we barely made the playoff during TC and Eli's other years
and both runs we had lousy season records that barely got us in the playoffs


I think we were 9-7 and 10-6. 9-7 teams are often in the playoffs and 10-6 is not "lousy" by NFL standards.
RE: I still  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2021 10:14 am : link
In comment 15134597 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
maintain that several years from now, we'll have this narrative on the board that McAdoo not only wanted Mahomes, but resigned in anger after his wishes weren't heeded.

It is one of the most overblown things posted on BBI


What I can't believe is that nobody can put together that the switch from Tom Coughlin's attack deep offense that Manning had run his whole career to McAdoo's run the same personnel and formation 94% of the time, and only throw short passes regardless of down and distance had more affect on Manning's performance than any sort of physical decline did.

I mean, in 2015, Manning threw 4500 yards, and 35 TD's to only 14 INT's.

The Giants offense in 2015 was the 6th scoring offense in the league.

THEN, in 2016, Manning still threw for 4000 yards, and 26 TD's to only 16 INT's.

The Giants offense in 2016 was the [b]26th scoring offense in the NFL with the EXACT same personnel.

BUT NO! It wasn't McAdoo the offensive guru's fault. It was Eli Manning's physical decline at 34 years old.

People still say here that Ben McAdoo is responsible for resurrecting Eli in 2014 and 2015. Unbelievable. That's where the Eli was washed up narrative started.

Washed up coming off a 4500 yard, 35 TD season at 34 years old. How old is Matt Stafford right now, since so many BBIers want him?
RE: RE: I still  
crick n NC : 1/26/2021 10:23 am : link
In comment 15134633 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15134597 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


maintain that several years from now, we'll have this narrative on the board that McAdoo not only wanted Mahomes, but resigned in anger after his wishes weren't heeded.

It is one of the most overblown things posted on BBI



What I can't believe is that nobody can put together that the switch from Tom Coughlin's attack deep offense that Manning had run his whole career to McAdoo's run the same personnel and formation 94% of the time, and only throw short passes regardless of down and distance had more affect on Manning's performance than any sort of physical decline did.

I mean, in 2015, Manning threw 4500 yards, and 35 TD's to only 14 INT's.

The Giants offense in 2015 was the 6th scoring offense in the league.

THEN, in 2016, Manning still threw for 4000 yards, and 26 TD's to only 16 INT's.

The Giants offense in 2016 was the [b]26th scoring offense in the NFL with the EXACT same personnel.

BUT NO! It wasn't McAdoo the offensive guru's fault. It was Eli Manning's physical decline at 34 years old.

People still say here that Ben McAdoo is responsible for resurrecting Eli in 2014 and 2015. Unbelievable. That's where the Eli was washed up narrative started.

Washed up coming off a 4500 yard, 35 TD season at 34 years old. How old is Matt Stafford right now, since so many BBIers want him?


Very good points Britt
It's unbelievable how much credit that McAdoo gets here in hindsight.  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2021 10:28 am : link
Shows you how much people disliked Manning and Coughlin and were ready to discredit them in any way possible.

While we're at comparing the Coughlin 2015 team to the McAdoo 2016 team....

Wanna guess what the defensive ranks were for those two?

2015: 30th in the NFL
2016: 2nd in the NFL

Ha, yeah, let's give McAdoo credit.
The 2015 New York Giants lost 6 games....  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2021 10:30 am : link
where they were tied or led with two minutes to go. There were many games that year where the opposing offense took the field, and scored a walkoff FG or TD to end it after the offense either tied it or took the lead.

They finished 6-10.
And don't give me that "McAdoo played complimentary football"  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2021 10:32 am : link
bullshit and that's why the defense went from 30th to 2nd and the offense went from 6th to 26th.

McAdoo was a loser. He was Ray Handley level bad.

I can't believe people still give that guy credit.
Unfortunately, TC was losing his fastball in 2015  
JonC : 1/26/2021 10:53 am : link
and made a number of in-game decisions that blew up, and made him look like he was in rapid decline. It was one of those teams that just couldn't make a play when it really needed it.

They used that to usher him out, put their next guy in his spot, and Reese got to keep his job and go on a UFA spending spree for 2016. Despite McAdoo's failure as head coach, he was indeed correct about Mahomes (he was banging the table to trade up for him, and Reese was trying), and that Eli was declining and no longer able to stand in the face of a pass rush, make some of the longer vertical passes, etc. It was what it was, and it wasn't a figment of the imagination.

They still have most of the same decision makers in place, and they brought back DG who's been a mixed bag. This offseason is a crucial one for DG's tenure as GM, and for the next few seasons for NYG as they're invested in Jones, Barkley, etc. It's also why many will be prepared to move on from Jones more quickly, rather than invest bigger cap dollars and time in him.
All of that said  
JonC : 1/26/2021 10:59 am : link
if I were in charge, Coughlin would've remained after 2015 and I would've been looking for Eli's successor after the 2017 debacle, if I had not sooner. There were plenty of signs at the time to not punt the decision any longer, but DG et al ignored them in 2018.

GMs have to keep one on the present and one eye on the future, and NYG has struggled with it for years. Even while winning the last two titles, they failed to keep the pipeline flowing with talent.
Jonc  
crick n NC : 1/26/2021 11:02 am : link
That is all reasonable to me. There were several posters that constant and loud pointing to Manning and Coughlin as the problems while ignoring how the roster had fallen off significantly in major areas (DL,OL,secondary). I feel like like any fans defending Manning weren't denying that he was in decline. We felt his decline was down the list of reasons why did giants couldn't win games.
As for the OP  
JonC : 1/26/2021 11:03 am : link
winning two SBs is an incredible accomplishment. Their collective tenures were very successful but both titles stick out as outliers in a sense compared to the rest of it. Even in this age where you don't need to be a great football team to win it all, it's an awesome and rare achievement. 2011 Giants led by a trio of absolutely clutch and white hot players in Eli, Cruz, and JPP does not happen often.
JonC  
Go Terps : 1/26/2021 11:03 am : link
Calling Gettleman a mixed bag is kind. Three years in they're 15-33 with a roster that has holes all over it, and nothing special in the cupboard with regards to draft picks or cap space.

The team is probably closer to a full tear down than it is a legitimate title contention.
Poorly proof read  
crick n NC : 1/26/2021 11:03 am : link
Post on my part
crick  
JonC : 1/26/2021 11:06 am : link
There's often multiple contributing factors, and you could easily make a case that Reese and the pipeline failures were bigger culprits than Eli's decline. I think it's clear they did Eli no favors from 2012 until the end, even when they bet on him in 2018.

In other words, don't listen to dummies.
Terps  
JonC : 1/26/2021 11:10 am : link
I sadly don't disagree. For 2021, I'm hoping they put something special together to show signs the talent is ramping up, in addition to a coaching staff that is clearly able to prepare a roster to play greater than the sum of its parts.
TC was part of the old guard of coaches that really never  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/26/2021 11:15 am : link
understood in game management of the clock. In 2015 he was getting his ass handed to him on a regular basis, the team was mediocre, and the margin of winning and losing in NFL is razor thin so it was extremely highlighted.

Eli’s feet were done in 2018. I get why they thought they could bring him back though. 2017 the offensive line was so bad it was impossible to asses properly.

Look at Rivers, he retired for same reason. Can’t play QB when your feet are in cement. He had arguably the best OL in football, a stable of backs, and legit number 1 WR. They were going no where in playoffs with him at helm with how slow his feet are. Any pressure that gets him off his spot will result in a negative play. Bens are getting there too and wouldn’t be surprised if he looks toast next year.
RE: crick  
crick n NC : 1/26/2021 11:16 am : link
In comment 15134718 JonC said:
Quote:
There's often multiple contributing factors, and you could easily make a case that Reese and the pipeline failures were bigger culprits than Eli's decline. I think it's clear they did Eli no favors from 2012 until the end, even when they bet on him in 2018.

In other words, don't listen to dummies.


👍

Thanks. I hope you are a well.
Coughlin may have been losing his fastball....  
Britt in VA : 1/26/2021 11:17 am : link
but he had to make decisions knowing that he could not let his own defense back on the field because they could not stop anybody, and that was true. He had to play if perfectly, and he couldn't.

I don't care to argue anything past that point in time. I can see why people don't like Gettleman or any Giants choice post McAdoo.

But too much is made about Eli's decline and Coughlin's fastball, and they turned into monster narratives here that seem to grow and be accepted as fact every year.
Zeke  
crick n NC : 1/26/2021 11:18 am : link
Coughlin never understood in-game clock management? I'm not sure I agree with that.
Here's a sound motto for 2021  
JonC : 1/26/2021 11:19 am : link
don't listen to football dummies. Spare yourself.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/26/2021 11:24 am : link
I don't think TC was ever great at clock management. I think his weaknesses became more glaring in 2015.

It's also difficult to keep a coach who has missed the playoffs four years in a row.
RE: Blowhard know-it-alls  
Section331 : 1/26/2021 11:25 am : link
In comment 15133474 LBH15 said:
Quote:
Sitting on couches.


Says a blowhard know-it-all sitting on a couch.
RE: ....  
JonC : 1/26/2021 11:28 am : link
In comment 15134753 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I don't think TC was ever great at clock management. I think his weaknesses became more glaring in 2015.

It's also difficult to keep a coach who has missed the playoffs four years in a row.


He also took more risks on offense in 2015, probably in response to trying to keep the defense off the field.
RE: Zeke  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/26/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15134743 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Coughlin never understood in-game clock management? I'm not sure I agree with that.


It really wasn’t a strength of his. These younger coaches understand it much better than the older coaches did and we see that play out today. People have attributed it to the Madden effect, which I actually buy into.
RE: RE: Zeke  
crick n NC : 1/26/2021 11:37 am : link
In comment 15134773 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15134743 crick n NC said:


Quote:


Coughlin never understood in-game clock management? I'm not sure I agree with that.



It really wasn’t a strength of his. These younger coaches understand it much better than the older coaches did and we see that play out today. People have attributed it to the Madden effect, which I actually buy into.


I don't recall it being a detriment to the team which would be more along the lines of "never understood" versus not a strength.
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