I started a thread last week on this, but deleted it. This week, I’ve got to leave it up. As each year passes, I’m more impressed that Coughlin & Eli won *two* titles in their tenure here. It’s so hard to do, as we just watched the Packers lose at home. We watched the Saints lose last week at home.
Just an incredible accomplishment.
Coughlin was already a good coach. He took J'ville to the AFC championship twice--an xpansion team.
Eli still could have played out his contract and they should have got herbert. but then do that to eli. The rosters have sucked since 2012.
Mcadoo pfff. Mcadoo wouldn't know what to with mahomes even if he got him. Andy Reid's play calling and his roster has a lot to do with Mahomes.
Mcadoo predictable high school playcalling and no motion offense.
Why bother , the "I want the world" poster got it right. Yea sure and Lamar Jackson is good QB pfff. he is Rg3 part 2 and will end up just like him.
I look at 2008 and 2010 as years we were contenders and didn't win it all. But the Saints/Packers/Peyton Colts have around ten 'missed' years. And they only got one a piece.
And I didn't think that 07 team was going to be a SB contender going into that year.
This is also why Eli has to be a HOF'er IMO. He was the best QB in the most important part of the season twice. He was the MVP in the most important game of the season twice. It's a remarkable feat - especially compared to his peers who were better players each year.
When you consider all that, it makes the parting of the Red Sea look pretty minor.
Selfishly, I don’t mind. Imagine Eli in his induction ceremony talking about the two years he played with Jacksonville? I know it shouldn’t matter, but I like how he only played for the Giants.
So maybe the Giants go 7-9 instead of 4-12 / 5-11 if they move on sooner, but glad he wore no other uniform.
2019 and 2020 was a nostalgia tour?
When you consider all that, it makes the parting of the Red Sea look pretty minor.
So, Mara gets no credit for retaining Coughlin after 2006 and 2010? BBI was ugly back in January of 2007 when Coughlin was retained, the majority here wanted him gone so Charlie Weiss could “fix” Eli. There was a portion here who wanted Coughlin gone after 2010 as well.
That was a time where patience paid off very well for John Mara and he 100% deserves credit for that.
Going to log in as Googs or LBH15 today? Maybe do an every other day thing?
Worst move ever was forcing TC out and promoting his suboridate. He rode a team he didn't build and the free agent d improvements to 11 wins and a circus lead up to a wild card round loss before presiding over the destruction of the team.
History has proven this move, and subsequent moves after, drove the franchise into the ground. Should have given Coughlin 2016.
Eli, bringing him back in 2019 was dumb. But, end of 2018 was the last time the team looked like it had any type of consistent offense. Eli could probably still produce on a good squad. Look how the Saints carried a one armed Brees to the divisional round. If the Titans or Rams had a 2018 type Eli this year, they may have won it all.
Amazing to win two titles.
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The best thing this front office can do is forget those titles happened. Time to flip the calendar already.
2019 and 2020 was a nostalgia tour?
Absolutely. Sticking with Eli, and drafting what they view as an Eli clone...they are so insulated in their views they could be posters on BBI. You can bet your house Mara is thinking about Eli in 2007 when thinking about what to do with Jones now.
The best thing for the organization and for Eli would have been for him to leave in 2014 or so. He wouldn't have had such a disastrous second half of his career, and the Giants could have stopped trying to catch lightning in a bottle.
The best thing they can do now is populate the organization with people that don't give a shit about Eli. What we had with him is not relevant to today. Eli may as well be YA Tittle.
Worst move ever was forcing TC out and promoting his suboridate. He rode a team he didn't build and the free agent d improvements to 11 wins and a circus lead up to a wild card round loss before presiding over the destruction of the team.
History has proven this move, and subsequent moves after, drove the franchise into the ground. Should have given Coughlin 2016.
Eli, bringing him back in 2019 was dumb. But, end of 2018 was the last time the team looked like it had any type of consistent offense. Eli could probably still produce on a good squad. Look how the Saints carried a one armed Brees to the divisional round. If the Titans or Rams had a 2018 type Eli this year, they may have won it all.
Amazing to win two titles.
Eli's 2018 season wasn't even in the ballpark of Tannehill's 2020 season. Tannehill had 33 touchdowns to 7 interceptions this year. He wasn't holding them back. Their defense being atrocious was what held them back.
Are we still holding fantasies that the Mara's will do what the Ravens did and build a team around a lamar jackson type? It's not because it isn't the giants way -- they won't because it is dumb. When all the hype and all the bs is done and lamar ends up hurt or they finally realize you can't win anything in the playoffs with that kind of qb play ; you'll see the ravens yet again get another qb and start all over again after the years long set back.
The ironic thing is. People said Bridgewater would come cheap. Well ask the Panthers what they think about that now. They are basically stuck with him this season with his $23M next season.
He signed a 3 year $63M contract with $33M in guaranteed money.
Now, he never was shifty...and I feel defenses adjusted to the offense friendly NFL rules....and to counter....teams needed more mobile QBs to succeed....or great OL. The Giants had neither.
and both runs we had lousy season records that barely got us in the playoffs
That was pretty damn consistent
McAdoo as idiot savant. Check. Mahomes wasn't exactly a state secret so him being "right about Mahomes" was not some exercise in prescience.
McAdoo was fired and will never be a HC in the NFL again. This is the guy you have hitched your wagon to. Good luck.
This is all water under the bridge. There were several ways to play this out, and the team chose the way they chose. You all see the results.
It is one of the most overblown things posted on BBI
and both runs we had lousy season records that barely got us in the playoffs
I think we were 9-7 and 10-6. 9-7 teams are often in the playoffs and 10-6 is not "lousy" by NFL standards.
It is one of the most overblown things posted on BBI
What I can't believe is that nobody can put together that the switch from Tom Coughlin's attack deep offense that Manning had run his whole career to McAdoo's run the same personnel and formation 94% of the time, and only throw short passes regardless of down and distance had more affect on Manning's performance than any sort of physical decline did.
I mean, in 2015, Manning threw 4500 yards, and 35 TD's to only 14 INT's.
The Giants offense in 2015 was the 6th scoring offense in the league.
THEN, in 2016, Manning still threw for 4000 yards, and 26 TD's to only 16 INT's.
The Giants offense in 2016 was the [b]26th scoring offense in the NFL with the EXACT same personnel.
BUT NO! It wasn't McAdoo the offensive guru's fault. It was Eli Manning's physical decline at 34 years old.
People still say here that Ben McAdoo is responsible for resurrecting Eli in 2014 and 2015. Unbelievable. That's where the Eli was washed up narrative started.
Washed up coming off a 4500 yard, 35 TD season at 34 years old. How old is Matt Stafford right now, since so many BBIers want him?
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maintain that several years from now, we'll have this narrative on the board that McAdoo not only wanted Mahomes, but resigned in anger after his wishes weren't heeded.
It is one of the most overblown things posted on BBI
What I can't believe is that nobody can put together that the switch from Tom Coughlin's attack deep offense that Manning had run his whole career to McAdoo's run the same personnel and formation 94% of the time, and only throw short passes regardless of down and distance had more affect on Manning's performance than any sort of physical decline did.
I mean, in 2015, Manning threw 4500 yards, and 35 TD's to only 14 INT's.
The Giants offense in 2015 was the 6th scoring offense in the league.
THEN, in 2016, Manning still threw for 4000 yards, and 26 TD's to only 16 INT's.
The Giants offense in 2016 was the [b]26th scoring offense in the NFL with the EXACT same personnel.
BUT NO! It wasn't McAdoo the offensive guru's fault. It was Eli Manning's physical decline at 34 years old.
People still say here that Ben McAdoo is responsible for resurrecting Eli in 2014 and 2015. Unbelievable. That's where the Eli was washed up narrative started.
Washed up coming off a 4500 yard, 35 TD season at 34 years old. How old is Matt Stafford right now, since so many BBIers want him?
Very good points Britt
While we're at comparing the Coughlin 2015 team to the McAdoo 2016 team....
Wanna guess what the defensive ranks were for those two?
2015: 30th in the NFL
2016: 2nd in the NFL
Ha, yeah, let's give McAdoo credit.
They finished 6-10.
McAdoo was a loser. He was Ray Handley level bad.
I can't believe people still give that guy credit.
They used that to usher him out, put their next guy in his spot, and Reese got to keep his job and go on a UFA spending spree for 2016. Despite McAdoo's failure as head coach, he was indeed correct about Mahomes (he was banging the table to trade up for him, and Reese was trying), and that Eli was declining and no longer able to stand in the face of a pass rush, make some of the longer vertical passes, etc. It was what it was, and it wasn't a figment of the imagination.
They still have most of the same decision makers in place, and they brought back DG who's been a mixed bag. This offseason is a crucial one for DG's tenure as GM, and for the next few seasons for NYG as they're invested in Jones, Barkley, etc. It's also why many will be prepared to move on from Jones more quickly, rather than invest bigger cap dollars and time in him.
GMs have to keep one on the present and one eye on the future, and NYG has struggled with it for years. Even while winning the last two titles, they failed to keep the pipeline flowing with talent.
The team is probably closer to a full tear down than it is a legitimate title contention.
In other words, don't listen to dummies.
Eli’s feet were done in 2018. I get why they thought they could bring him back though. 2017 the offensive line was so bad it was impossible to asses properly.
Look at Rivers, he retired for same reason. Can’t play QB when your feet are in cement. He had arguably the best OL in football, a stable of backs, and legit number 1 WR. They were going no where in playoffs with him at helm with how slow his feet are. Any pressure that gets him off his spot will result in a negative play. Bens are getting there too and wouldn’t be surprised if he looks toast next year.
In other words, don't listen to dummies.
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Thanks. I hope you are a well.
I don't care to argue anything past that point in time. I can see why people don't like Gettleman or any Giants choice post McAdoo.
But too much is made about Eli's decline and Coughlin's fastball, and they turned into monster narratives here that seem to grow and be accepted as fact every year.
It's also difficult to keep a coach who has missed the playoffs four years in a row.
Says a blowhard know-it-all sitting on a couch.
It's also difficult to keep a coach who has missed the playoffs four years in a row.
He also took more risks on offense in 2015, probably in response to trying to keep the defense off the field.
It really wasn’t a strength of his. These younger coaches understand it much better than the older coaches did and we see that play out today. People have attributed it to the Madden effect, which I actually buy into.
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Coughlin never understood in-game clock management? I'm not sure I agree with that.
It really wasn’t a strength of his. These younger coaches understand it much better than the older coaches did and we see that play out today. People have attributed it to the Madden effect, which I actually buy into.
I don't recall it being a detriment to the team which would be more along the lines of "never understood" versus not a strength.