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NFT: Knicks @ Portland 10pm est

nygiants16 : 1/24/2021 6:26 pm
Portland no Mccollum, no Collins and no Nurkic..

For the Knicks no word on their injired players
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RE: I'm also very confident  
Greg from LI : 1/25/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15133685 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
the Knicks would not have taken Obi if they knew they were getting this Julius Randle. This remains one of my biggest concerns with the roster. I just don't know how Obi is going to develop if Julius is -- as he should be -- playing 36+ MPG.


I agree. They clearly weren't expecting Randle to play like this.
The great thing about the randle/toppin dilemma  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 9:13 am : link
you dont have to make a decision until after next year, you habe Randle controlled, you cant sign him to an extrnsion anyway, Toppin is locked up..

You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..
Is it that crazy to play them together anyway?  
adamg : 1/25/2021 9:16 am : link
Randle is handling the ball. It's not like Toppin was going to be Lebron. Couldn't they be complementary pieces? Or is the problem on D?
RE: Is it that crazy to play them together anyway?  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 9:17 am : link
In comment 15133704 adamg said:
Quote:
Randle is handling the ball. It's not like Toppin was going to be Lebron. Couldn't they be complementary pieces? Or is the problem on D?


Problem would be defensively
RE: Is it that crazy to play them together anyway?  
Jon in NYC : 1/25/2021 9:17 am : link
In comment 15133704 adamg said:
Quote:
Randle is handling the ball. It's not like Toppin was going to be Lebron. Couldn't they be complementary pieces? Or is the problem on D?


Yeah the problem's on defense. Neither guys can guard centers or small forwards imo.
I do wonder if Thibs  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 9:19 am : link
is not mixing and matching as much because of lack of practice and limited preseason..

I do think Starting Quickley will help both units..

I think Payton with Rivers, Knox, Toppin and Noel is a better fit..

He can play with the ball, with shooters and a rim runner
Yeah I think the problem is D  
Greg from LI : 1/25/2021 9:20 am : link
They could complement each other offensively but, defensively, either you'd be expecting Randle to guard 5s or Toppin to guard 3s. Neither of those are appealing options.
Changing  
Jon in NYC : 1/25/2021 9:21 am : link
the topic, but I'd think about trading for Oladipo at a steep discount before the trade deadline. He's not staying in Houston, he seems to want Miami, but the Knicks could move something for his rights and give him a half season trial. At the very least if they lose him for nothing, they could facilitate a sign and trade, or get a trade player exception etc.

But if it works out they keep his bird rights.

And by steep discount I'm talking like Frank + Bullock or something like that. Rockets get a reclamation project and lose a bunch of salary cap.
RE: Changing  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 9:31 am : link
In comment 15133713 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
the topic, but I'd think about trading for Oladipo at a steep discount before the trade deadline. He's not staying in Houston, he seems to want Miami, but the Knicks could move something for his rights and give him a half season trial. At the very least if they lose him for nothing, they could facilitate a sign and trade, or get a trade player exception etc.

But if it works out they keep his bird rights.

And by steep discount I'm talking like Frank + Bullock or something like that. Rockets get a reclamation project and lose a bunch of salary cap.


Oladipo or Hield for me, I dont think Wizards trade Beal even if they dont win another game...

Id offer up frank Knox and a distant 1st round pick to get either..
is it me or does Toppin  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2021 9:36 am : link
struggle with catching the ball and dribbling? It's strange.
chopper  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2021 9:37 am : link
Randle sucks? he's an all star right now.
Great game by IQ. He's the future at pg - no doubt and that future  
Ira : 1/25/2021 9:42 am : link
is near.
Chopper I have to disagree here.  
Mike from SI : 1/25/2021 9:57 am : link
Randle is our best facilitator right now. Among our starting 5, if Randle isn't facilitating, that means Elf is doing it....

And I don't think IQ is ready to be the main facilitator yet. He can be too deferential and/or picks up his dribble too much (I sound like Clyde, so what).

Even if you want Quick to be the main guy, who facilitates when it isn't him if not Randle? RJ is becoming an adept scorer but makes bad passes all the time and can't play point forward right now.

I don't think there's any other answer.
There was a play a few games back  
ghost718 : 1/25/2021 10:03 am : link
in which Barrett had the ball,and Randle wanted to post up. RJ didn't pass it and took it himself,than Randle threw up his arms in disgust after the result.

Tells you all you need to know

I see both sides to the Randle Toppin argument  
widmerseyebrow : 1/25/2021 10:18 am : link
as far as a hypothetical big trade goes. As a Knicks fan you don't want to get too cute with the bird in hand, but there is also a nagging fear that says the clock will strike midnight with Randle at some point.
Randle/Toppin  
Mike in NJ : 1/25/2021 10:43 am : link
As others have said, Randle has been outstanding this year and absolutely deserves to be getting 35+ minutes per night, but Thibs needs to start finding ways to get 20-25 for Toppin as well. Whether Toppin is part of the future here, or part of a trade, it is in the team's best interest to see what we have in him and how he fits, or to showcase him and maximize his trade value.

Depending on the matchup, I think you can live with Toppin or Randle at C for 10 minutes per night. Keep Toppin as the primary backup for Randle for 13 minutes, but also play them together with one at center. I have been seriously underwhelmed with Noel anyway, so I have no issues with them cutting down on his minutes.
RE: There was a play a few games back  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15133758 ghost718 said:
Quote:
in which Barrett had the ball,and Randle wanted to post up. RJ didn't pass it and took it himself,than Randle threw up his arms in disgust after the result.

Tells you all you need to know


This literally happens in every single NBA game..

Hesterday Sabonis was posting up and Brogdon didnt get it to him and threw his arms up, does that tell you all you need to know?

Every big wants the ball when they feel they have a match up in the post
RE: RE: There was a play a few games back  
ghost718 : 1/25/2021 10:52 am : link
In comment 15133821 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
This literally happens in every single NBA game..

Hesterday Sabonis was posting up and Brogdon didnt get it to him and threw his arms up, does that tell you all you need to know?

Every big wants the ball when they feel they have a match up in the post


Happens every game huh? But only one guy on the Knicks seems to be doing it. Seems like another exaggeration

I think Oladipo hits the FA market...  
Jan in DC : 1/25/2021 10:52 am : link
if you want him, you sign him this offseason. We're going to have a lot of cap space and I know that it'd be nice to secure these guys via trade, but we're showing that there are pieces here and we can win. That's going to make FAs more attracted to this team to sign without having to give up players and picks for them.
RE: I dont have much to say about this game  
djm : 1/25/2021 11:09 am : link
In comment 15133590 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
But JR is a numbers vulture. His shot selection is horrendous and because he goes 25 and 10 should not be a reason to keep him around a young team. Because he does everything we dont want to do. He stops the ball like he is Melo, he dribbles too much, he males half assed passes, he spins and just throws the ball to a spot when his idea doesnt work out. He is playing VERY BAD basketball right now. Sure hes scores a lot and gets assists towards the end of games. But he SUCKS. He only turns it on when we have younger players in or are in a scorimg dog fight. Get him the fuck out of here.

I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.

If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.


I hate to argue this, but I can't help but think if there wasn't this widely held perception of Randle, much of it well earned, you wouldn't be saying this about him. If you woke up out of a 50 year coma and didn't know Julius Randle from Tony Randle, you'd be saying he looks great now. There would be no buts or ifs or candy and nuts and there should as fuck wouldn't any talk of moving him becasue Obi is a better fit...

Cmon dude, Obis is the second coming of Kenny Sky Walker until proven otherwise. You don't move an all star like Randle unless it's absolutely both necessary and beneficial.

He's not a vulture. He's playing well. I mean any good scorer vultures the ball. That's how it works.
as to the whole payton thing  
djm : 1/25/2021 11:12 am : link
he's a better player than Rivers. I will die on this hill. Rivers looked good for about 3 games now looks like Austin Rivers again. At least Payton can get to the basket and play defense. Does Rivers do either?
RE: The great thing about the randle/toppin dilemma  
djm : 1/25/2021 11:13 am : link
In comment 15133698 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
you dont have to make a decision until after next year, you habe Randle controlled, you cant sign him to an extrnsion anyway, Toppin is locked up..

You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..


This is my take as well. What's the rush? Don't be crazy and turn this team over to Obi Toppin just yet. I'd like to see the guy create his own shot just once before I even entertain any notions of him being a reliable player.
RE: as to the whole payton thing  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 11:14 am : link
In comment 15133886 djm said:
Quote:
he's a better player than Rivers. I will die on this hill. Rivers looked good for about 3 games now looks like Austin Rivers again. At least Payton can get to the basket and play defense. Does Rivers do either?


Rivers was guarding Lillard the entire 4th quarter and did a pretty good job..

Rivers is a better shooter, Rivers has a better handle and can get to the rim..

Payton can get to the rim, finishing is another story, Paytons defense is overrated..
RE: RE: RE: There was a play a few games back  
djm : 1/25/2021 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15133841 ghost718 said:
Quote:
In comment 15133821 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


This literally happens in every single NBA game..

Hesterday Sabonis was posting up and Brogdon didnt get it to him and threw his arms up, does that tell you all you need to know?

Every big wants the ball when they feel they have a match up in the post



Happens every game huh? But only one guy on the Knicks seems to be doing it. Seems like another exaggeration


Well we all know you never exaggerate around here.

RE: RE: RE: RE: There was a play a few games back  
ghost718 : 1/25/2021 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15133964 djm said:
Quote:
Well we all know you never exaggerate around here.


I know you probably thought this sounded good,but it should also make sense.
i feel like 1 more player  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2021 12:37 pm : link
who can really shoot would absolutely do wonders for this team. Basically if Knox were good, this is a 5 or 6 seed in the east
I love Randle this year...  
Jan in DC : 1/25/2021 12:50 pm : link
but he's got to clean up on the turnovers. I know they're running the offense through him, but his turnover rate is still pretty high in our losses.
Randle  
TyreeHelmet : 1/25/2021 12:51 pm : link
How could you possibly criticize or want to trade Randle this season? He's playing at an all nba level. Most importantly- he is helping them win.

Some fans are completely ridiculous.
RE: I love Randle this year...  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 12:56 pm : link
In comment 15134046 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
but he's got to clean up on the turnovers. I know they're running the offense through him, but his turnover rate is still pretty high in our losses.


When you have the ball in your hands and the offense runs through you, there are going tk be turnovers..
RE: Randle  
Jan in DC : 1/25/2021 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15134050 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
How could you possibly criticize or want to trade Randle this season? He's playing at an all nba level. Most importantly- he is helping them win.

Some fans are completely ridiculous.


I mean, even if you're playing the best on the team, it doesn't mean they're above criticism. Every player in the league can do things better.

I'm very happy with the evolution of Randle and am very against moving him. I'm against moving most of the team unless it's for an all-star player on a deal where they're not entering free agency. I think this team is extremely young and showing great signs of growth.
RE: RE: as to the whole payton thing  
Stu11 : 1/25/2021 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15133893 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15133886 djm said:


Quote:


he's a better player than Rivers. I will die on this hill. Rivers looked good for about 3 games now looks like Austin Rivers again. At least Payton can get to the basket and play defense. Does Rivers do either?



Rivers was guarding Lillard the entire 4th quarter and did a pretty good job..

Rivers is a better shooter, Rivers has a better handle and can get to the rim..

Payton can get to the rim, finishing is another story, Paytons defense is overrated..

It's so godamn great having a good coach. The reason they got back in it was doubling Lilliard down the stretch as soon as he got over half court and forcing the ball out of his hands while the clock struck midnight and all the Blazers scrubs started missing finally. As long as Thibs is here we could probably find a way to play Obi and Randle together eventually. He'll figure out a way to make it work defensively. I'm all for trading for Hield or Oladipo at the deadline if we have a good shot at the play in games. Oladipo has looked great this year and we really need shooters. IQ and Burks got a lot of burn together in the 2nd half last night and that's really an intriguing duo to play together with their shooting and D. I'd like to see a lot more of it.
RE: RE: I love Randle this year...  
Jan in DC : 1/25/2021 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15134059 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15134046 Jan in DC said:


Quote:


but he's got to clean up on the turnovers. I know they're running the offense through him, but his turnover rate is still pretty high in our losses.



When you have the ball in your hands and the offense runs through you, there are going tk be turnovers..


I already acknowledged that when I pointed to the fact that they're running the offense through him.

He's even acknowledged that he has to clean up the turnovers in post game interviews. Just something to keep an eye on.
For you stat guys....  
Carl in CT : 1/25/2021 1:24 pm : link
IQ’s PER is higher than Halliburton’s.
RE: For you stat guys....  
bceagle05 : 1/25/2021 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15134100 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
IQ’s PER is higher than Halliburton’s.

I was gonna bring up Hali last night but it was too late to start a riot. Would be nice to have both but who knows if we take Quickley at #25 if we take Hali in the lottery? Overall we're doing OK in the draft in recent years - just keep grinding away at it.
RE: The refs told Randle after thr game  
chopperhatch : 1/25/2021 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15133666 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
they made a mistake and Randle should of been at the line shooting 2 free throws to tie the game...Thibs didnt have a timeout to challenge..

Also Chopper how can you say Randle is a black hole? he is constantly trying to set up his teammates, and yes there are times he looks for his own shot, that doesnt make him a blackhole..

The offense runs through him, he sets up his teammates, how many wide open looks did Burks get because of Randle??

And just because Toppin can jump higher he should play more? he needs to develop, let him start playing well with the 15 to 18 minutes he is getting now and then minutes will increase..

I am tired of this notion that a young player only develops by playing a ton of minutes, that is simply not true and in fact playing a ton of minutes right away and struggling and losing hurts their development


I dont think je is a black hole. But he DOES stop the ball, takes his time and either does something very weird like spinning towards the baseline and putting up a 12 footer (he made that shot last night) or deciding his idea isnt going to work and dumping the ball off with 4 on the clock (THAT, I hate!).

I dont WANT to get rid of Randle. But would probably prefer him as the trade piece over Toppin. I lile that Toppin is above the rim and he is very fast without the ball.

If Toppin gets us Beal so beal it. But the offensive plan of JR has to change if we get a scorer like Beal.

What I want from Randle is 1 dribble-> decisive move.
RE: RE: The great thing about the randle/toppin dilemma  
chopperhatch : 1/25/2021 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15133890 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15133698 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


you dont have to make a decision until after next year, you habe Randle controlled, you cant sign him to an extrnsion anyway, Toppin is locked up..

You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..



This is my take as well. What's the rush? Don't be crazy and turn this team over to Obi Toppin just yet. I'd like to see the guy create his own shot just once before I even entertain any notions of him being a reliable player.



If we want to trade for Beal before he can hold teams hostage, we would have to do it this year as I understand it.
I would also like to someone to point out  
chopperhatch : 1/25/2021 1:37 pm : link
Where I said "Randle sucks."

^^^^^  
Del Shofner : 1/25/2021 1:58 pm : link
You just said it!

:-)
RE: I would also like to someone to point out  
ryanmkeane : 1/25/2021 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15134117 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Where I said "Randle sucks."

you serious? this is what you said:

But JR is a numbers vulture. His shot selection is horrendous and because he goes 25 and 10 should not be a reason to keep him around a young team. Because he does everything we dont want to do. He stops the ball like he is Melo, he dribbles too much, he males half assed passes, he spins and just throws the ball to a spot when his idea doesnt work out. He is playing VERY BAD basketball right now. Sure hes scores a lot and gets assists towards the end of games. But he SUCKS. He only turns it on when we have younger players in or are in a scorimg dog fight. Get him the fuck out of here.

I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.

If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.
RE: I would also like to someone to point out  
Jim from Katonah : 1/25/2021 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15134117 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Where I said "Randle sucks."


Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
Looks like the lineup will stay the same for a while...  
bceagle05 : 1/25/2021 4:35 pm : link
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Tom Thibodeau says he likes the rotation now, including Immanuel Quickley coming off the bench: "Right now we feel the best opportunity to win is doing the things that we're doing."
Payton playing the entire third quarter every night  
bceagle05 : 1/25/2021 4:37 pm : link
bothers me far more than him starting, as frustrating as it is. It's my only real Thibs complaint so far - we might win last night if Quickley enters a few minutes earlier.
RE: Payton playing the entire third quarter every night  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2021 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15134290 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
bothers me far more than him starting, as frustrating as it is. It's my only real Thibs complaint so far - we might win last night if Quickley enters a few minutes earlier.


Yeah its really bithering me how Payton plays entire quarters, and like you said a quicker hook for Payton may have resulted in a win
RE: RE: I would also like to someone to point out  
chopperhatch : 1/25/2021 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15134201 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 15134117 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


Where I said "Randle sucks."




Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”


Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.

Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.

Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.
RE: RE: RE: I would also like to someone to point out  
Jim from Katonah : 1/25/2021 7:15 pm : link
In comment 15134338 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15134201 Jim from Katonah said:


Quote:


In comment 15134117 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


Where I said "Randle sucks."




Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”



Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.

Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.

Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.


Didn’t mean to come across as snarky AT ALL. Very much enjoy your posts (and pics of that porterhouse) so ignore my goofy post and keep rolling.
RE: RE: Payton playing the entire third quarter every night  
steve in ky : 1/25/2021 8:44 pm : link
In comment 15134292 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15134290 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


bothers me far more than him starting, as frustrating as it is. It's my only real Thibs complaint so far - we might win last night if Quickley enters a few minutes earlier.



Yeah its really bithering me how Payton plays entire quarters, and like you said a quicker hook for Payton may have resulted in a win


His pattern has been that Payton comes out along with the rest of the starters and Quickly comes in with the second unit. Then if Quickly is playing well Thibs will often leave him in as he brings in the rest of the the starting unit but leave Peyton on the bench as Quickly gets more minutes with the starting unit. For whatever reason, Thibs hasn't yet wanted to just pull out Payton and swap him for Quickly. Maybe he views that as too much of a benching and does it this way for team harmony, or maybe out of respect for a veteran, or perhaps just wanting Quickly to have to do more to earn it, but he doesn't seem to want to flat out bench Peyton for Quickly. Pulling him with the rest of the unit provides him that cover. He may also believe Payton does a better job establishing himself on the defensive end, and we know Thibs always views defense as a priority.

Whatever the reasons, at least Thibs seems like the perfect fit as the head coach to lead these Knicks out of the dark ages. He is probably trying to have them crawl before they walk, and walk before they run. The positive take would be Thibs has enough experience and know how to formulate the best way to bring along a young talent like Quickly, and the things he does now will bring about greater benefits down the road.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would also like to someone to point out  
chopperhatch : 1/25/2021 9:04 pm : link
In comment 15134380 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 15134338 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


In comment 15134201 Jim from Katonah said:


Quote:


In comment 15134117 chopperhatch said:


Quote:


Where I said "Randle sucks."




Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”



Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.

Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.

Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.



Didn’t mean to come across as snarky AT ALL. Very much enjoy your posts (and pics of that porterhouse) so ignore my goofy post and keep rolling.


Oh Jim youre good! I just didnt I actually realize I said "HE SUCKS" without the crust of the statement. Happy to admit when Im wrong, plus my typing has gotten progressively half assed so there are bpund to be mistakes.

Not snarky at all, pointing out fact is not snarky.
Nuggets beat the Mavs!  
bceagle05 : 1/25/2021 11:09 pm : link
Dallas now 8-9 with a back-to-back against Utah coming up.
KP 6-18 from the field.  
bceagle05 : 1/25/2021 11:24 pm : link
I’m guessing Isola and Bondy won’t tweet that stat line, but they’ll be all over his next 30-point outburst.
RE: Nuggets beat the Mavs!  
nygiants16 : 1/26/2021 7:51 am : link
In comment 15134481 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Dallas now 8-9 with a back-to-back against Utah coming up.


then play a back to back against the suns
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