Part of the reason I stopped watching hoops was because for 20 plus years now all the good teams are in the west and the games start at like 10 on work nights
The other reason is the Knicks sucki ess for nearly the same amount of years
But what in God's name was he doing on that past possession? He holds the ball at half court for 10 seconds then gets open and doesn't shoot right away.
he is a fantastic gameplan coach, he has this team playing hard..
But this keeping his starters in for the entire 3rd quarter is ludicrous, you cant expect your bench to then come in to start the 4th and give you good minutes
unless they're on national TV Of course, for years, who would want to watch that torture?
But I've just discovered that since I switched to YouTube TV I get a live stream of Knicks games, no commercials, or almost none. So I'm watching them tonight. Of course the first half was a catastrophe but this second half has been a lot of fun.
I think he still needs work on setting up the offense, but I believe that will come with experience. The Knicks announcers after the game were insisting that the Knicks still need a pg. Why couldn't that be Quickley by late this season or next season? What am I missing?
Thibs needs to get him the experience at pg by starting him and working with him on setting up the offense. Against Payton, teams are getting away with playing off of him and playing a zone. They can't do that against Quickley, ever.
But JR is a numbers vulture. His shot selection is horrendous and because he goes 25 and 10 should not be a reason to keep him around a young team. Because he does everything we dont want to do. He stops the ball like he is Melo, he dribbles too much, he males half assed passes, he spins and just throws the ball to a spot when his idea doesnt work out. He is playing VERY BAD basketball right now. Sure hes scores a lot and gets assists towards the end of games. But he SUCKS. He only turns it on when we have younger players in or are in a scorimg dog fight. Get him the fuck out of here.
I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.
If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.
His points come from terrible post ups, follow ups and spinning mid range jumpers from the base line. He dribbles far too much in the paint and then dumps the ball off to some poor schmuck who has to find a clear look.
Im not going to get into the "have you played this game" routine with you, but when you have a scorer you generally have an idea of where he likes to shoot from. What moves he likes at certain spaces. JR has none of that. He is skilled at handling, but not in tight spaces and when he gets in trouble, he launches the ball to some poor bastard who has like 4 secs to shoot.
He has no plan on offense other than " my size and moves are sexier than yours". I prefer a guy who makes a decision to go to the net, or get open for 3. JR plays like hes fucking Carmelo. Sure he will put up ppints but wont win us games.
Toppin has the much better game for the Knicks right now
JR I think can get us more. If we HAVE to give up Toppin for Beal so be it. Beal would prob make JR better as JR wouldnt have to feel as ball dominant. But Toppin is cheaper, longer and faster than Randle. Randle reminds me so much of Sam Perkins. Lol. I DO like Randle still, just he needs to be reigned in. Or moved.
Fair points. I would like to see Toppin more before forming any major opinion though. I did like to see him shooting the ball from 3 even though he missed tonight. Those were good shots even if they didn't fall. But count me in the too early to crown him camp.
Fair points. I would like to see Toppin more before forming any major opinion though. I did like to see him shooting the ball from 3 even though he missed tonight. Those were good shots even if they didn't fall. But count me in the too early to crown him camp.
I kinda knew you were kidding. Just sick of the drunk comments. I have no problem admitting when I am tying on or trapped in another vortex.
Just, I get the feeling we see Randle put up numbers and we go gah gah for that yet, he rarely makes good decisions, slows the ball down, and limits our ability to close deficits.
Maybe nobody can do this on the Knicks, but qhen I last played hoops at a high level, we had a guy immensely talented. We were playing a team that had a D1 recruit (Tony Robertson from UCONN) playing and our guy was looking to have his moment, even though he had NO future. By the 3rd quarter, my 5'10 ass was barking at our guy during a timeout nose to nose because he wasnt playing the game we expected him to. He mooshed me in front of everybody, then made off the ball screens, kicked out on drives to our three point shooter, let me bring it up and we whooped that team's (St. Andrew?l ass in the 2nd half because he played HIS game.
Moral of the story was not to bring up a hoop memory. Its that very good players arent always the best players. The best players in basketball are the ones who mesh talent and figuring out what they do best.
I can definitely see that Randle might not be the guy. But, he's been a really solid piece this year. I would like to see him look a bit more fluid when he drives. He does do that herky jerky thing you're talking about. I think he could get better the more he plays point though. Honestly, my biggest problem with him is passing too much when he has a wide open shot. He needs to start thinking bigger for himself imho. I think he has more potential still. I think he could easily get to 26-30 ppg and still have those 5-7 assists.
Also, he deserves some props (and not to jinx him), but the FTs have been excellent lately.
they made a mistake and Randle should of been at the line shooting 2 free throws to tie the game...Thibs didnt have a timeout to challenge..
Also Chopper how can you say Randle is a black hole? he is constantly trying to set up his teammates, and yes there are times he looks for his own shot, that doesnt make him a blackhole..
The offense runs through him, he sets up his teammates, how many wide open looks did Burks get because of Randle??
And just because Toppin can jump higher he should play more? he needs to develop, let him start playing well with the 15 to 18 minutes he is getting now and then minutes will increase..
I am tired of this notion that a young player only develops by playing a ton of minutes, that is simply not true and in fact playing a ton of minutes right away and struggling and losing hurts their development
watching a lot of Knicks it's easy to think Randle is a black hole, but I really am becoming more and more impressed with him and his ability to affect a game in different ways.
Got to the line 11 times last night and shot 10-11, hit his only 3, and had another 5 assists.
Beyond that, he's clearly the leader of the team and worked his ass off to get into the best shape of his life.
I think he's a building block.
IQ-RJ-Randle-Mitch is the start of a half decent starting 5. They just need a true dynamic SG.
the Knicks would not have taken Obi if they knew they were getting this Julius Randle. This remains one of my biggest concerns with the roster. I just don't know how Obi is going to develop if Julius is -- as he should be -- playing 36+ MPG.
It you kind of got the sense they would come up short. I am sick of see Payton play, don’t get me wrong he has his moments, but why not let Quickley start and let Rivers and Frank be the backup back court with Burks at the 3 knox at the 4 and noel at the 5. Send Payton to the bench. Frank doesn’t really need to play point he can mix in with rivers and Burks. I know eveyone will think I am crazy but I think Frank will start hitting the 3 more consistently, we had a small sample size earlier in the year. Let him hang out in one corner and knox in the other and run the offense of the second team through rovers and burks. It can’t be worse than Payton on offense and you are getting just as good defense woth Frank as you would Payton.
Finishing 5 should be
Quickly
Burks
Barrett
Randle
Mitch
You can mix in Frank and bullock in differing games for offense/defense in tight games.
the Knicks would not have taken Obi if they knew they were getting this Julius Randle. This remains one of my biggest concerns with the roster. I just don't know how Obi is going to develop if Julius is -- as he should be -- playing 36+ MPG.
I agree. They clearly weren't expecting Randle to play like this.
They could complement each other offensively but, defensively, either you'd be expecting Randle to guard 5s or Toppin to guard 3s. Neither of those are appealing options.
the topic, but I'd think about trading for Oladipo at a steep discount before the trade deadline. He's not staying in Houston, he seems to want Miami, but the Knicks could move something for his rights and give him a half season trial. At the very least if they lose him for nothing, they could facilitate a sign and trade, or get a trade player exception etc.
But if it works out they keep his bird rights.
And by steep discount I'm talking like Frank + Bullock or something like that. Rockets get a reclamation project and lose a bunch of salary cap.
the topic, but I'd think about trading for Oladipo at a steep discount before the trade deadline. He's not staying in Houston, he seems to want Miami, but the Knicks could move something for his rights and give him a half season trial. At the very least if they lose him for nothing, they could facilitate a sign and trade, or get a trade player exception etc.
But if it works out they keep his bird rights.
And by steep discount I'm talking like Frank + Bullock or something like that. Rockets get a reclamation project and lose a bunch of salary cap.
Oladipo or Hield for me, I dont think Wizards trade Beal even if they dont win another game...
Id offer up frank Knox and a distant 1st round pick to get either..
Randle is our best facilitator right now. Among our starting 5, if Randle isn't facilitating, that means Elf is doing it....
And I don't think IQ is ready to be the main facilitator yet. He can be too deferential and/or picks up his dribble too much (I sound like Clyde, so what).
Even if you want Quick to be the main guy, who facilitates when it isn't him if not Randle? RJ is becoming an adept scorer but makes bad passes all the time and can't play point forward right now.
in which Barrett had the ball,and Randle wanted to post up. RJ didn't pass it and took it himself,than Randle threw up his arms in disgust after the result.
as far as a hypothetical big trade goes. As a Knicks fan you don't want to get too cute with the bird in hand, but there is also a nagging fear that says the clock will strike midnight with Randle at some point.
As others have said, Randle has been outstanding this year and absolutely deserves to be getting 35+ minutes per night, but Thibs needs to start finding ways to get 20-25 for Toppin as well. Whether Toppin is part of the future here, or part of a trade, it is in the team's best interest to see what we have in him and how he fits, or to showcase him and maximize his trade value.
Depending on the matchup, I think you can live with Toppin or Randle at C for 10 minutes per night. Keep Toppin as the primary backup for Randle for 13 minutes, but also play them together with one at center. I have been seriously underwhelmed with Noel anyway, so I have no issues with them cutting down on his minutes.
in which Barrett had the ball,and Randle wanted to post up. RJ didn't pass it and took it himself,than Randle threw up his arms in disgust after the result.
Tells you all you need to know
This literally happens in every single NBA game..
Hesterday Sabonis was posting up and Brogdon didnt get it to him and threw his arms up, does that tell you all you need to know?
Every big wants the ball when they feel they have a match up in the post
if you want him, you sign him this offseason. We're going to have a lot of cap space and I know that it'd be nice to secure these guys via trade, but we're showing that there are pieces here and we can win. That's going to make FAs more attracted to this team to sign without having to give up players and picks for them.
But JR is a numbers vulture. His shot selection is horrendous and because he goes 25 and 10 should not be a reason to keep him around a young team. Because he does everything we dont want to do. He stops the ball like he is Melo, he dribbles too much, he males half assed passes, he spins and just throws the ball to a spot when his idea doesnt work out. He is playing VERY BAD basketball right now. Sure hes scores a lot and gets assists towards the end of games. But he SUCKS. He only turns it on when we have younger players in or are in a scorimg dog fight. Get him the fuck out of here.
I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.
If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.
I hate to argue this, but I can't help but think if there wasn't this widely held perception of Randle, much of it well earned, you wouldn't be saying this about him. If you woke up out of a 50 year coma and didn't know Julius Randle from Tony Randle, you'd be saying he looks great now. There would be no buts or ifs or candy and nuts and there should as fuck wouldn't any talk of moving him becasue Obi is a better fit...
Cmon dude, Obis is the second coming of Kenny Sky Walker until proven otherwise. You don't move an all star like Randle unless it's absolutely both necessary and beneficial.
He's not a vulture. He's playing well. I mean any good scorer vultures the ball. That's how it works.
he's a better player than Rivers. I will die on this hill. Rivers looked good for about 3 games now looks like Austin Rivers again. At least Payton can get to the basket and play defense. Does Rivers do either?
RE: The great thing about the randle/toppin dilemma
you dont have to make a decision until after next year, you habe Randle controlled, you cant sign him to an extrnsion anyway, Toppin is locked up..
You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..
This is my take as well. What's the rush? Don't be crazy and turn this team over to Obi Toppin just yet. I'd like to see the guy create his own shot just once before I even entertain any notions of him being a reliable player.
he's a better player than Rivers. I will die on this hill. Rivers looked good for about 3 games now looks like Austin Rivers again. At least Payton can get to the basket and play defense. Does Rivers do either?
Rivers was guarding Lillard the entire 4th quarter and did a pretty good job..
Rivers is a better shooter, Rivers has a better handle and can get to the rim..
Payton can get to the rim, finishing is another story, Paytons defense is overrated..
How could you possibly criticize or want to trade Randle this season? He's playing at an all nba level. Most importantly- he is helping them win.
Some fans are completely ridiculous.
I mean, even if you're playing the best on the team, it doesn't mean they're above criticism. Every player in the league can do things better.
I'm very happy with the evolution of Randle and am very against moving him. I'm against moving most of the team unless it's for an all-star player on a deal where they're not entering free agency. I think this team is extremely young and showing great signs of growth.
he's a better player than Rivers. I will die on this hill. Rivers looked good for about 3 games now looks like Austin Rivers again. At least Payton can get to the basket and play defense. Does Rivers do either?
Rivers was guarding Lillard the entire 4th quarter and did a pretty good job..
Rivers is a better shooter, Rivers has a better handle and can get to the rim..
Payton can get to the rim, finishing is another story, Paytons defense is overrated..
It's so godamn great having a good coach. The reason they got back in it was doubling Lilliard down the stretch as soon as he got over half court and forcing the ball out of his hands while the clock struck midnight and all the Blazers scrubs started missing finally. As long as Thibs is here we could probably find a way to play Obi and Randle together eventually. He'll figure out a way to make it work defensively. I'm all for trading for Hield or Oladipo at the deadline if we have a good shot at the play in games. Oladipo has looked great this year and we really need shooters. IQ and Burks got a lot of burn together in the 2nd half last night and that's really an intriguing duo to play together with their shooting and D. I'd like to see a lot more of it.
I was gonna bring up Hali last night but it was too late to start a riot. Would be nice to have both but who knows if we take Quickley at #25 if we take Hali in the lottery? Overall we're doing OK in the draft in recent years - just keep grinding away at it.
they made a mistake and Randle should of been at the line shooting 2 free throws to tie the game...Thibs didnt have a timeout to challenge..
Also Chopper how can you say Randle is a black hole? he is constantly trying to set up his teammates, and yes there are times he looks for his own shot, that doesnt make him a blackhole..
The offense runs through him, he sets up his teammates, how many wide open looks did Burks get because of Randle??
And just because Toppin can jump higher he should play more? he needs to develop, let him start playing well with the 15 to 18 minutes he is getting now and then minutes will increase..
I am tired of this notion that a young player only develops by playing a ton of minutes, that is simply not true and in fact playing a ton of minutes right away and struggling and losing hurts their development
I dont think je is a black hole. But he DOES stop the ball, takes his time and either does something very weird like spinning towards the baseline and putting up a 12 footer (he made that shot last night) or deciding his idea isnt going to work and dumping the ball off with 4 on the clock (THAT, I hate!).
I dont WANT to get rid of Randle. But would probably prefer him as the trade piece over Toppin. I lile that Toppin is above the rim and he is very fast without the ball.
If Toppin gets us Beal so beal it. But the offensive plan of JR has to change if we get a scorer like Beal.
What I want from Randle is 1 dribble-> decisive move.
RE: RE: The great thing about the randle/toppin dilemma
you dont have to make a decision until after next year, you habe Randle controlled, you cant sign him to an extrnsion anyway, Toppin is locked up..
You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..
This is my take as well. What's the rush? Don't be crazy and turn this team over to Obi Toppin just yet. I'd like to see the guy create his own shot just once before I even entertain any notions of him being a reliable player.
If we want to trade for Beal before he can hold teams hostage, we would have to do it this year as I understand it.
But JR is a numbers vulture. His shot selection is horrendous and because he goes 25 and 10 should not be a reason to keep him around a young team. Because he does everything we dont want to do. He stops the ball like he is Melo, he dribbles too much, he males half assed passes, he spins and just throws the ball to a spot when his idea doesnt work out. He is playing VERY BAD basketball right now. Sure hes scores a lot and gets assists towards the end of games. But he SUCKS. He only turns it on when we have younger players in or are in a scorimg dog fight. Get him the fuck out of here.
I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.
If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Tom Thibodeau says he likes the rotation now, including Immanuel Quickley coming off the bench: "Right now we feel the best opportunity to win is doing the things that we're doing."
Payton playing the entire third quarter every night
bothers me far more than him starting, as frustrating as it is. It's my only real Thibs complaint so far - we might win last night if Quickley enters a few minutes earlier.
RE: Payton playing the entire third quarter every night
bothers me far more than him starting, as frustrating as it is. It's my only real Thibs complaint so far - we might win last night if Quickley enters a few minutes earlier.
Yeah its really bithering me how Payton plays entire quarters, and like you said a quicker hook for Payton may have resulted in a win
Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.
Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.
Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.
RE: RE: RE: I would also like to someone to point out
Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.
Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.
Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.
Didn’t mean to come across as snarky AT ALL. Very much enjoy your posts (and pics of that porterhouse) so ignore my goofy post and keep rolling.
RE: RE: Payton playing the entire third quarter every night
bothers me far more than him starting, as frustrating as it is. It's my only real Thibs complaint so far - we might win last night if Quickley enters a few minutes earlier.
Yeah its really bithering me how Payton plays entire quarters, and like you said a quicker hook for Payton may have resulted in a win
His pattern has been that Payton comes out along with the rest of the starters and Quickly comes in with the second unit. Then if Quickly is playing well Thibs will often leave him in as he brings in the rest of the the starting unit but leave Peyton on the bench as Quickly gets more minutes with the starting unit. For whatever reason, Thibs hasn't yet wanted to just pull out Payton and swap him for Quickly. Maybe he views that as too much of a benching and does it this way for team harmony, or maybe out of respect for a veteran, or perhaps just wanting Quickly to have to do more to earn it, but he doesn't seem to want to flat out bench Peyton for Quickly. Pulling him with the rest of the unit provides him that cover. He may also believe Payton does a better job establishing himself on the defensive end, and we know Thibs always views defense as a priority.
Whatever the reasons, at least Thibs seems like the perfect fit as the head coach to lead these Knicks out of the dark ages. He is probably trying to have them crawl before they walk, and walk before they run. The positive take would be Thibs has enough experience and know how to formulate the best way to bring along a young talent like Quickly, and the things he does now will bring about greater benefits down the road.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would also like to someone to point out
Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.
Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.
Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.
Didn’t mean to come across as snarky AT ALL. Very much enjoy your posts (and pics of that porterhouse) so ignore my goofy post and keep rolling.
Oh Jim youre good! I just didnt I actually realize I said "HE SUCKS" without the crust of the statement. Happy to admit when Im wrong, plus my typing has gotten progressively half assed so there are bpund to be mistakes.
Not snarky at all, pointing out fact is not snarky.
The other reason is the Knicks sucki ess for nearly the same amount of years
Doubt Frank plays but we may see Rivers.
yes - RJ gave him a perfect feed for the corner 3
we need a PG who can shoot from the outside
What’s he done in the pros to automatically get 30 a night? Start Quickley ffs. Knicks are unwatchable with Elfrid out there.
Amen. Cunningham or Suggs and Kispert
Did you just see Portland couldnt double Randle hmm wonder why
Knox, Frank, DSJ, and all our picks for Beal?
As for the game: Ugg. Dame is such a beast lol.
Mitchell Robinson head is up his ass, lazy as shit
They are just hot, when their backuo scrubs are chucking up 3s and making them it is not your night
+1 That was insane.
Nvm. ESPN website is good.
he is useless when a team plays a zone
That's great
Quote:
What does he have 4 shots?
he is useless when a team plays a zone
Interesting. Can you explain that?
Quote:
In comment 15133493 adamg said:
Quote:
What does he have 4 shots?
he is useless when a team plays a zone
Interesting. Can you explain that?
He is a downhill player, you dont drive into a zone, that is exactly ehat the team wants..
He is not going to get the same looks
But this keeping his starters in for the entire 3rd quarter is ludicrous, you cant expect your bench to then come in to start the 4th and give you good minutes
I have no idea how we’re still in this game but lo and behold, we’re down 5
I have no idea how we’re still in this game but lo and behold, we’re down 5
Teams didnt think he had a position, they saw him as a small 2 guard
But I've just discovered that since I switched to YouTube TV I get a live stream of Knicks games, no commercials, or almost none. So I'm watching them tonight. Of course the first half was a catastrophe but this second half has been a lot of fun.
Just has to average a point a minute.
that was an ugly shot for sure
Kane Fitzgerald, i used ball with him, whiny terrible ref
Is it crazy to say, he may be our best player?
How can you not start that guy?
Look how much better the offense looks with a threat at point
You cant just rely on defense every game, you need to score
You cant just rely on defense every game, you need to score
To that end is IQ really a sieve on defense? It doesn't seem that way.
Quote:
he is doing this team a disservice..
You cant just rely on defense every game, you need to score
To that end is IQ really a sieve on defense? It doesn't seem that way.
In college he guarded the opposing teams players
Well that's good!
They went to the replay and apparently everyone turned into Ray Charles.
Dame is great - didn’t have a drop of sweat on him at the end of the game.
.
94% FT
Dude can shoot.
Isn't that the way of the league now?
He gets in the lane with ease to, he doesnt finish at the rim because he loves the floater, but he makes things happen..
and he knows how to play off the ball
I dont expect him to, he is going to stick with Payton, Thibs is stubborn, i will be pleasantly surprised when Quick starts
Thibs needs to get him the experience at pg by starting him and working with him on setting up the offense. Against Payton, teams are getting away with playing off of him and playing a zone. They can't do that against Quickley, ever.
I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.
If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.
Im not drunk.....asshole.
His points come from terrible post ups, follow ups and spinning mid range jumpers from the base line. He dribbles far too much in the paint and then dumps the ball off to some poor schmuck who has to find a clear look.
Im not going to get into the "have you played this game" routine with you, but when you have a scorer you generally have an idea of where he likes to shoot from. What moves he likes at certain spaces. JR has none of that. He is skilled at handling, but not in tight spaces and when he gets in trouble, he launches the ball to some poor bastard who has like 4 secs to shoot.
He has no plan on offense other than " my size and moves are sexier than yours". I prefer a guy who makes a decision to go to the net, or get open for 3. JR plays like hes fucking Carmelo. Sure he will put up ppints but wont win us games.
I kinda knew you were kidding. Just sick of the drunk comments. I have no problem admitting when I am tying on or trapped in another vortex.
Just, I get the feeling we see Randle put up numbers and we go gah gah for that yet, he rarely makes good decisions, slows the ball down, and limits our ability to close deficits.
Maybe nobody can do this on the Knicks, but qhen I last played hoops at a high level, we had a guy immensely talented. We were playing a team that had a D1 recruit (Tony Robertson from UCONN) playing and our guy was looking to have his moment, even though he had NO future. By the 3rd quarter, my 5'10 ass was barking at our guy during a timeout nose to nose because he wasnt playing the game we expected him to. He mooshed me in front of everybody, then made off the ball screens, kicked out on drives to our three point shooter, let me bring it up and we whooped that team's (St. Andrew?l ass in the 2nd half because he played HIS game.
Moral of the story was not to bring up a hoop memory. Its that very good players arent always the best players. The best players in basketball are the ones who mesh talent and figuring out what they do best.
/end Hoop Dreams blog 😉
Also, he deserves some props (and not to jinx him), but the FTs have been excellent lately.
Also Chopper how can you say Randle is a black hole? he is constantly trying to set up his teammates, and yes there are times he looks for his own shot, that doesnt make him a blackhole..
The offense runs through him, he sets up his teammates, how many wide open looks did Burks get because of Randle??
And just because Toppin can jump higher he should play more? he needs to develop, let him start playing well with the 15 to 18 minutes he is getting now and then minutes will increase..
I am tired of this notion that a young player only develops by playing a ton of minutes, that is simply not true and in fact playing a ton of minutes right away and struggling and losing hurts their development
Yes please.
Got to the line 11 times last night and shot 10-11, hit his only 3, and had another 5 assists.
Beyond that, he's clearly the leader of the team and worked his ass off to get into the best shape of his life.
I think he's a building block.
IQ-RJ-Randle-Mitch is the start of a half decent starting 5. They just need a true dynamic SG.
Finishing 5 should be
Quickly
Burks
Barrett
Randle
Mitch
You can mix in Frank and bullock in differing games for offense/defense in tight games.
I agree. They clearly weren't expecting Randle to play like this.
You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..
Problem would be defensively
Yeah the problem's on defense. Neither guys can guard centers or small forwards imo.
I do think Starting Quickley will help both units..
I think Payton with Rivers, Knox, Toppin and Noel is a better fit..
He can play with the ball, with shooters and a rim runner
But if it works out they keep his bird rights.
And by steep discount I'm talking like Frank + Bullock or something like that. Rockets get a reclamation project and lose a bunch of salary cap.
But if it works out they keep his bird rights.
And by steep discount I'm talking like Frank + Bullock or something like that. Rockets get a reclamation project and lose a bunch of salary cap.
Oladipo or Hield for me, I dont think Wizards trade Beal even if they dont win another game...
Id offer up frank Knox and a distant 1st round pick to get either..
And I don't think IQ is ready to be the main facilitator yet. He can be too deferential and/or picks up his dribble too much (I sound like Clyde, so what).
Even if you want Quick to be the main guy, who facilitates when it isn't him if not Randle? RJ is becoming an adept scorer but makes bad passes all the time and can't play point forward right now.
I don't think there's any other answer.
Tells you all you need to know
Depending on the matchup, I think you can live with Toppin or Randle at C for 10 minutes per night. Keep Toppin as the primary backup for Randle for 13 minutes, but also play them together with one at center. I have been seriously underwhelmed with Noel anyway, so I have no issues with them cutting down on his minutes.
Tells you all you need to know
This literally happens in every single NBA game..
Hesterday Sabonis was posting up and Brogdon didnt get it to him and threw his arms up, does that tell you all you need to know?
Every big wants the ball when they feel they have a match up in the post
Hesterday Sabonis was posting up and Brogdon didnt get it to him and threw his arms up, does that tell you all you need to know?
Every big wants the ball when they feel they have a match up in the post
Happens every game huh? But only one guy on the Knicks seems to be doing it. Seems like another exaggeration
I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.
If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.
I hate to argue this, but I can't help but think if there wasn't this widely held perception of Randle, much of it well earned, you wouldn't be saying this about him. If you woke up out of a 50 year coma and didn't know Julius Randle from Tony Randle, you'd be saying he looks great now. There would be no buts or ifs or candy and nuts and there should as fuck wouldn't any talk of moving him becasue Obi is a better fit...
Cmon dude, Obis is the second coming of Kenny Sky Walker until proven otherwise. You don't move an all star like Randle unless it's absolutely both necessary and beneficial.
He's not a vulture. He's playing well. I mean any good scorer vultures the ball. That's how it works.
You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..
This is my take as well. What's the rush? Don't be crazy and turn this team over to Obi Toppin just yet. I'd like to see the guy create his own shot just once before I even entertain any notions of him being a reliable player.
Rivers was guarding Lillard the entire 4th quarter and did a pretty good job..
Rivers is a better shooter, Rivers has a better handle and can get to the rim..
Payton can get to the rim, finishing is another story, Paytons defense is overrated..
Quote:
This literally happens in every single NBA game..
Hesterday Sabonis was posting up and Brogdon didnt get it to him and threw his arms up, does that tell you all you need to know?
Every big wants the ball when they feel they have a match up in the post
Happens every game huh? But only one guy on the Knicks seems to be doing it. Seems like another exaggeration
Well we all know you never exaggerate around here.
I know you probably thought this sounded good,but it should also make sense.
Some fans are completely ridiculous.
When you have the ball in your hands and the offense runs through you, there are going tk be turnovers..
Some fans are completely ridiculous.
I mean, even if you're playing the best on the team, it doesn't mean they're above criticism. Every player in the league can do things better.
I'm very happy with the evolution of Randle and am very against moving him. I'm against moving most of the team unless it's for an all-star player on a deal where they're not entering free agency. I think this team is extremely young and showing great signs of growth.
Quote:
he's a better player than Rivers. I will die on this hill. Rivers looked good for about 3 games now looks like Austin Rivers again. At least Payton can get to the basket and play defense. Does Rivers do either?
Rivers was guarding Lillard the entire 4th quarter and did a pretty good job..
Rivers is a better shooter, Rivers has a better handle and can get to the rim..
Payton can get to the rim, finishing is another story, Paytons defense is overrated..
It's so godamn great having a good coach. The reason they got back in it was doubling Lilliard down the stretch as soon as he got over half court and forcing the ball out of his hands while the clock struck midnight and all the Blazers scrubs started missing finally. As long as Thibs is here we could probably find a way to play Obi and Randle together eventually. He'll figure out a way to make it work defensively. I'm all for trading for Hield or Oladipo at the deadline if we have a good shot at the play in games. Oladipo has looked great this year and we really need shooters. IQ and Burks got a lot of burn together in the 2nd half last night and that's really an intriguing duo to play together with their shooting and D. I'd like to see a lot more of it.
Quote:
but he's got to clean up on the turnovers. I know they're running the offense through him, but his turnover rate is still pretty high in our losses.
When you have the ball in your hands and the offense runs through you, there are going tk be turnovers..
I already acknowledged that when I pointed to the fact that they're running the offense through him.
He's even acknowledged that he has to clean up the turnovers in post game interviews. Just something to keep an eye on.
I was gonna bring up Hali last night but it was too late to start a riot. Would be nice to have both but who knows if we take Quickley at #25 if we take Hali in the lottery? Overall we're doing OK in the draft in recent years - just keep grinding away at it.
Also Chopper how can you say Randle is a black hole? he is constantly trying to set up his teammates, and yes there are times he looks for his own shot, that doesnt make him a blackhole..
The offense runs through him, he sets up his teammates, how many wide open looks did Burks get because of Randle??
And just because Toppin can jump higher he should play more? he needs to develop, let him start playing well with the 15 to 18 minutes he is getting now and then minutes will increase..
I am tired of this notion that a young player only develops by playing a ton of minutes, that is simply not true and in fact playing a ton of minutes right away and struggling and losing hurts their development
I dont think je is a black hole. But he DOES stop the ball, takes his time and either does something very weird like spinning towards the baseline and putting up a 12 footer (he made that shot last night) or deciding his idea isnt going to work and dumping the ball off with 4 on the clock (THAT, I hate!).
I dont WANT to get rid of Randle. But would probably prefer him as the trade piece over Toppin. I lile that Toppin is above the rim and he is very fast without the ball.
If Toppin gets us Beal so beal it. But the offensive plan of JR has to change if we get a scorer like Beal.
What I want from Randle is 1 dribble-> decisive move.
Quote:
you dont have to make a decision until after next year, you habe Randle controlled, you cant sign him to an extrnsion anyway, Toppin is locked up..
You can see how it grows and if it comes a point you can play them together..
This is my take as well. What's the rush? Don't be crazy and turn this team over to Obi Toppin just yet. I'd like to see the guy create his own shot just once before I even entertain any notions of him being a reliable player.
If we want to trade for Beal before he can hold teams hostage, we would have to do it this year as I understand it.
:-)
you serious? this is what you said:
But JR is a numbers vulture. His shot selection is horrendous and because he goes 25 and 10 should not be a reason to keep him around a young team. Because he does everything we dont want to do. He stops the ball like he is Melo, he dribbles too much, he males half assed passes, he spins and just throws the ball to a spot when his idea doesnt work out. He is playing VERY BAD basketball right now. Sure hes scores a lot and gets assists towards the end of games. But he SUCKS. He only turns it on when we have younger players in or are in a scorimg dog fight. Get him the fuck out of here.
I know I was higjer on him earlier on, but now he has reverted back to be a numbers whore. Sell him for whatever.
If I could get Beal for JR and a couple firsts plus, or JR and Barrett and a 1st I would do it. Not Toppin tho. If it takes mire than that, ask. Randle showed promise but has reverted back to garden slug status.
Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
@SBondyNYDN
Tom Thibodeau says he likes the rotation now, including Immanuel Quickley coming off the bench: "Right now we feel the best opportunity to win is doing the things that we're doing."
Yeah its really bithering me how Payton plays entire quarters, and like you said a quicker hook for Payton may have resulted in a win
Quote:
Where I said "Randle sucks."
Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.
Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.
Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.
Quote:
In comment 15134117 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Where I said "Randle sucks."
Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.
Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.
Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.
Didn’t mean to come across as snarky AT ALL. Very much enjoy your posts (and pics of that porterhouse) so ignore my goofy post and keep rolling.
Quote:
bothers me far more than him starting, as frustrating as it is. It's my only real Thibs complaint so far - we might win last night if Quickley enters a few minutes earlier.
Yeah its really bithering me how Payton plays entire quarters, and like you said a quicker hook for Payton may have resulted in a win
His pattern has been that Payton comes out along with the rest of the starters and Quickly comes in with the second unit. Then if Quickly is playing well Thibs will often leave him in as he brings in the rest of the the starting unit but leave Peyton on the bench as Quickly gets more minutes with the starting unit. For whatever reason, Thibs hasn't yet wanted to just pull out Payton and swap him for Quickly. Maybe he views that as too much of a benching and does it this way for team harmony, or maybe out of respect for a veteran, or perhaps just wanting Quickly to have to do more to earn it, but he doesn't seem to want to flat out bench Peyton for Quickly. Pulling him with the rest of the unit provides him that cover. He may also believe Payton does a better job establishing himself on the defensive end, and we know Thibs always views defense as a priority.
Whatever the reasons, at least Thibs seems like the perfect fit as the head coach to lead these Knicks out of the dark ages. He is probably trying to have them crawl before they walk, and walk before they run. The positive take would be Thibs has enough experience and know how to formulate the best way to bring along a young talent like Quickly, and the things he does now will bring about greater benefits down the road.
Quote:
In comment 15134201 Jim from Katonah said:
Quote:
In comment 15134117 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
Where I said "Randle sucks."
Look at your 1:58am post. Where you said “HE SUCKS.”
Had trouble finding it based on the time stamp you offered. But yes, its there. I didnt finish the post as I watching Marco Polo while posting. I meant to say that HE SUCKS at maintaining the flow of rhe offense. A couple games ago, he was missing everything for 3 quarters and was turning down much easier shots to kick it out for contested 3. Then, there are games where he resorts to the one on one game at the wrong times of the game.
Randle definitely doesnt suck and I apologize for the hasty submit, but I def think his approach SUCKS sometimes and has recently.
Sorry for the confusion. I need to put the phone down when doing something else.
Didn’t mean to come across as snarky AT ALL. Very much enjoy your posts (and pics of that porterhouse) so ignore my goofy post and keep rolling.
Oh Jim youre good! I just didnt I actually realize I said "HE SUCKS" without the crust of the statement. Happy to admit when Im wrong, plus my typing has gotten progressively half assed so there are bpund to be mistakes.
Not snarky at all, pointing out fact is not snarky.
then play a back to back against the suns