Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
and the 2 minute warning though only this time Fb would start inside the 10 and not the 20 which is a huge difference. 1 mistake and the game gets ugly for TB. Not likely, but it’s possible.
Probably has less than 20% success rate. Two point conversion less than 45%.
These facts versus holding Tampa for three downs.
I see the logic and no this will not end the head coaches career at 40.
The bigger question is how much longer do you give Rogers? I wonder how Love has progressed. Can put more of a team around him if he is the goods and still get comp for Rogers.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
Using that pick on Jordan Love instead of Patrick Queen or Clyde Edwards Helaire really paid dividends.
Drafting Rodgers in the first when you had the gunslinger Favre still playing at a high level rather then draft Heath Miller really paid dividends.
Completely different situations. If you listen to the Packers organization they didn't want to draft Rodgers and wanted him to go earlier but he kept dropping. SF was going to take Rodgers number 1 overall. They decided on Smith because he was like Montana with his accuracy.
Lets look at Love. They completely overdrafted him. Rodgers could have went 1st overall and Love was a second round pick where people fell in love with his measureables. He played at a lower level of competition, couldn't read defenses, and threw a ton of interceptions. People want Love to be like Rodgers for comparison sake but it simply isn't the same situation at all.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
Could be. Not sure what TC would have done, but when you get to the NFCC, there has to be some trust in your D.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
Could be. Not sure what TC would have done, but when you get to the NFCC, there has to be some trust in your D.
Your D needs a stop either way, correct? What you do is take one less opportunity away from your QB and have better field position of you fail.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
Completely disagree. So if they scored the TD but didn’t get the 2pt conversion they still only need a stop and now only need a FG with 3 timeouts and two minute warning still in hand. Worst case scenario is they don’t score the TD and TB gets the ball at the 8 yard line. The downside and risk of the worst case scenario was not near bad enough to kick the FG and hope and pray you get the ball back
Probably has less than 20% success rate. Two point conversion less than 45%.
These facts versus holding Tampa for three downs.
I see the logic and no this will not end the head coaches career at 40.
The bigger question is how much longer do you give Rogers? I wonder how Love has progressed. Can put more of a team around him if he is the goods and still get comp for Rogers.
thats whats over looked. the TD without the 2 your in the same situation as the field goal. And tj Defense made the stop Brady had a bad throw if there was no shirt grab Green Bay had a chance.
Im not sure it was the right call but it wasnt wtf call.
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
I dont know how anyone sees the strategy.
They needed a touchdown before, they needed a touchdown after. They still could have gotten a stop if the Packers went for it on 4th down and didn't get it. And up 8 the Bucs are going to be very conservative pinned deep in their own end.
And this is ALL assuming they DONT get the touchdown, which with Rodgers even on 4th and 8 you have a decent shot.
Field goal never should have been an option unless it was 4th and 25.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
. Seemed like Rodgers could have run it into the end zone untouched. Weird decision going on 4th. Seems like they had more confidence in the defense then offfense.
It seems like Lafleur was kicking the FG unless it was at like the 1 in line. So, with that said, that definitely had to change is play calling. If he says we are going for it all 4 downs outside of a penalty that backs them up then maybe he has a better chance of punching it in.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
I dont know how anyone sees the strategy.
They needed a touchdown before, they needed a touchdown after. They still could have gotten a stop if the Packers went for it on 4th down and didn't get it. And up 8 the Bucs are going to be very conservative pinned deep in their own end.
And this is ALL assuming they DONT get the touchdown, which with Rodgers even on 4th and 8 you have a decent shot.
Field goal never should have been an option unless it was 4th and 25.
Again, I saw the strategy and didn't find it outrageous. So I'm sort of agnostic on the decision.
The Green Bay D had three timeouts and Tampa pinned at the 20+. You are at home and have to make the stop. It's that simple.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
I dont know how anyone sees the strategy.
They needed a touchdown before, they needed a touchdown after. They still could have gotten a stop if the Packers went for it on 4th down and didn't get it. And up 8 the Bucs are going to be very conservative pinned deep in their own end.
And this is ALL assuming they DONT get the touchdown, which with Rodgers even on 4th and 8 you have a decent shot.
Field goal never should have been an option unless it was 4th and 25.
Again, I saw the strategy and didn't find it outrageous. So I'm sort of agnostic on the decision.
The Green Bay D had three timeouts and Tampa pinned at the 20+. You are at home and have to make the stop. It's that simple.
But you could go for it and not get it and rely on your defense to get you the ball back, and the Bucs absolutely are going to be a lot more conservative up 8 than up 5 and pinned in their own end.
On top of that, you give your MVP a chance to tie the game on 4th and 8 and not take the ball out of his hands.
Everything pointed to going for it. Common sense, metrics, everything.
It's scary that kicking it was even an option.
I thought Rodgers had enough room to run on the 3rd down
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
If Rodgers had run it on that 3rd down with no one in front of him it would have been at the worse a 4th and 2 to go for a TD instead of 8 to go. That would have changed the whole course of that series
Don’t see it from a different view. Take the points and tell your D to make a stop. You have momentum and pressure on TB.
Get the ball back to your HOF QB with about 1:45 to go. He has maybe 8-10 plays to win and the opportunity to connect on a big play. Defense has to protect a much bigger field
4th and 8 to score is tough. No threat to run or play action. Difficult down.
Allows GB to win with a TD if they get the ball back. The issue is, with Brady it is unlikely they get the ball back.
Look, they had a great chance at a stop on third and seven. Right. So the table was set.
Unfortunately, Kevin King made another dumb play and the game continued. Otherwise, Green Bay gets the ball back.
Analytics can't account for the dumb variable.
Analytics may not but it’s a coaches job to account for any potential “dumb variable”. This is an offensive league. You know that. The coach should know that. We’ve seen time and time and time again an offense get bailed out by an untimely defensive holding or PI call. The decision needs to take that into account. It’s not as easy as just telling your defense to go make a stop. The deck is stacked against them.
RE: To win the game, the Packers needed two scores.
they should have been in the hurry up the entire drive. you MUST leave yourself enough time to get a FG in the event you don't get the 2 point conversion
he clearly didn't do that. the thinking everyone presumed then was ok this guy wants to score and go for 2 and not leave the bucs any time to go win the game
then this fucking idiot kicked the FG. every player on that team should revolt and demand he be fired.
Mike Pettine calling man coverage with 6 seconds left in the 1st half
Are you an idiot? 8 points is a one score game. Needing a two point conversion DOES NOT make it a two score game. Do you count an extra point try as needing an extra score? Wtf is wrong with you? Since when does anyone consider an 8 point game a two score game?
The probabilities behind this decision are not easy to calculate. It would take us hours to calculate them and there would be judgment calls involved. Maybe LaFleur was wrong but to label it a “dumb” decision is just too critical.
Analytics may not but it’s a coaches job to account for any potential “dumb variable”. This is an offensive league. You know that. The coach should know that. We’ve seen time and time and time again an offense get bailed out by an untimely defensive holding or PI call. The decision needs to take that into account. It’s not as easy as just telling your defense to go make a stop. The deck is stacked against them.
The Green Bay D did hold the Bucs to one TD only and three Brady INTs in the second half. So they were getting stops. Right?
So asking for another stop - again, the did have third and seven - wasn't at all unreasonable at that point. IMV.
The probabilities behind this decision are not easy to calculate. It would take us hours to calculate them and there would be judgment calls involved. Maybe LaFleur was wrong but to label it a “dumb” decision is just too critical.
but he blew that call. You’re down one score, and by kicking a FG, you’re asking your D to hold Brady w/o a 1st down. Here’s the thing, if you go for it and don’t make it, you still need a TD, but TB takes the ball at the 8.
Put the game in the hands of your best player, don’t expect your slightly above average D to make a stop against an all time great QB.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
Sounds an awful lot like the gambler's fallacy there - failing three times doesn't change the odds of the fourth attempt.
Is dumb unless you have the 2000 Ravens D. The game is so slanted towards offense you are better off leaving your O on the field. Browns got burned by a similarly terrible decision last week.
These coaches really need a 'time and situation' assistant coach it seems to manage. It seems obvious to the fans, I'm guessing they are too sucked into the game to take a step back and look at the big picture.
RE: Mike Pettine calling man coverage with 6 seconds left in the 1st half
TD is all I needed to see for who wanted the game more. At the very least its 4th and goal from the 1 there. You know Eli would have takem his chance there, gotten people into a quick huddle and ran the play.
That took guts AaRod doesnt have.
Fuck him, Im glad he lost. Again.
RE: RE: Mike Pettine calling man coverage with 6 seconds left in the 1st half
And Tampa Bay at the 40 yard line was easily the worst call of the day
One of the most idiotic Defensive calls I have ever seen. That was every bit as bad as Greg Williams call that got him fired
Man was fine...but not PRESS , or whatever the fuck it was King was playing. That didnt look like scheme to me....more like Tampa saw Kimg being over aggressive and really had not choice base on time, down and distance.
Man woulda been fine...even ten yards off....JUST DONT LET HIM GET BEHIND YOU.
Patrick Queen was trash this year. Led the NFL with 22 missed tackles and had a 117 QB passer rating against him. He may be a good player but to list him as if he would have been huge in defeating Tampa Bay is nonsense.
It's like Doug Marrone trying to Hide in the second half versus the Pats....It's a bad decision that proves you don't have the Balls or the Brains to win a big game.
It's a tough winter knowing that the absolute worst decision was made by your coach..... statistically and stylistically the most unlikely path to win that gane is what he chose.
At 37 years of age, I'm not sure how AR can reconcile being Coached by him....I don't know how any player can accept that decision.
These former OC head coaches who continue calling plays...
When the D is falling apart, they always have this deer in the headlight look. I think Coughlin (and hopefully Judge), could give better direction when the D wheels start coming off.
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
Expecting to get that stop was the problem. Granted, the D played well in the 2nd half, but taking the ball out of your best player's hands even though a FG still leaves you needing a TD to win.
To top that off, they decide to allow the KR to return the KO, and brought it back to near midfield. Worst case if you go for it on 4th down, you don't get it, you're still down one score, and you're giving Brady the ball on the 8.
Ask yourself, how would Belichick have handled this? This was a no-brainer, and LaFleur blew it. He's a good coach, but this wasn't his greatest moment.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
So worst case scenario he goes for it and doesn't get it, then they have to stop the Bucs and that's exactly what they had to do with the best case scenario of a field goal.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
So worst case scenario he goes for it and doesn't get it, then they have to stop the Bucs and that's exactly what they had to do with the best case scenario of a field goal.
Not certain whether you’re agreeing or disagreeing..:)
One play from the 8 yard line with perhaps the best QB ever
vs.
having to get a 3-and-out against Tom Brady
AND
then scoring a TD with under a minute left, having to go the length of the field and no timeouts
-------------
It honestly may have been the worst coaching decision I've ever seen in a big spot.
Did you miss the Seahawks vs Pats SB? :p
Devils advocate here, but your comp is wrong. It's:
One play from 8 yard line AND 2 pt conversion AND having to get a stop against TB AND last second GW FG (or OT victory)
No matter what he choose on the 4th and 8, they needed to stop TB and the Bucs.
That's why it was a dumb decision. Either way they'd need to stop TB. But if you kick a FG you still need to score a TD, but this time likely starting from your own 25 yard line (best case scenario).
But if you are trying to stop TB and they are starting at their own 8 yard line, you will get much better field position, and if something bad happens to TB you are set up beautifully.
no one seems to be talking about the call to go for two earlier in the second half to make it a 3 point game. That in my opinion was the mistake that snowballed. If they are only down by 7 at that point they go for it and if they fail, have TB trapped inside their own ten yard line.
He made a call that said the best player on the team, who is a top all time player, would not be able to get 2 yards. However, our defense will stop Brady and get the ball back
Even if they missed there were in the same situation on defense after the kickoff
Terrible
He needed to run on third down and overrule his green coach on fourth
I cannot believe Rodgers didn’t do at least one of those things. I imagine it’ll be a game that’ll live with them all for a long time.
Under every circumstance - td, fg, or miss on 4th down, your team is going to be back on defense. So what position can you put them and your team in? You need to score 8 to tie and give yourself a chance to win.
With a td+2, the defense is on even footing and TB may play tight to avoid another turnover. Playing for OT starts to become a factor. Helps the defense. If you miss the two point conversion, you’re still on defense but now a fg can win the game.
Missing the fourth down attempt puts Bucs backs against the wall, and Bucs are probably running in an attempt to give space to the punter, bleed the clock, force GB to use their timeouts, and maybe they break one off if lucky. Defense needs to make a stop to get a chance to tie. Field position benefit to the defense. Still need to score a td+2.
Fg relieves pressure of field position and defense needs to make a stop to get a chance to win. Defense will only realize a benefit if special teams makes a big play, but you’re probably kicking the ball out of the back of the end zone to prevent a big return. Still need to score a td, but don’t have to go for 2pts.
In every circumstance, the defense needs to make a stop to prevent a loss, and your offense is going to need points on the ensuing drive. The field goal really didn’t do anything for them except remove a guaranteed opportunity to take a shot into the end zone from close range and give up field position. There is an argument to be made that if you need to make a stop and you need to make one more score, why not make it be for the win. I just don’t think it is very persuasive.
—
And not handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch is still the worst call in the history of football, including our own sordid history of bad calls.
I just rewatched the 3rd down play. Rodgers can stroll into the end zone if he runs it to the right
There is no way he makes it in. There were 3 defenders right on the goal line, and Rodgers doesn't have the foot speed to go 8 yards before they go 4. I do think that if he had run it, by getting closer to the goal line, he may have influenced LaFleur to go for it, but he would not have scored.
were not 3 defenders on the goal line. The DB's were to the middle and left of the field and he had a couple lineman 2 yards behind him. To the right, it was clear.
LaFleur's decision is grabbing the headlines, but Rodgers couldn't get it done. LaFleur even admitted in the postgame that his decision to take the points and rely on his defense was influenced by the fact that the offense couldn't get any yards from the 8 in three tries.
were not 3 defenders on the goal line. The DB's were to the middle and left of the field and he had a couple lineman 2 yards behind him. To the right, it was clear.
The 2 DB's were on the goal line, just to the right of the right hash. JPP was about 3 yds to Rodgers left as he threw the ball. No way he gets into the end zone. I saved a still of the shot, but don't recall where I can save it online to post here.
were not 3 defenders on the goal line. The DB's were to the middle and left of the field and he had a couple lineman 2 yards behind him. To the right, it was clear.
In the photo I saw, JPP was in full gallop and had an angle on Rodgers and there were two CBs on the goal line on top of the right hashmark (and a CB about 5 yards deep in the end zone only a few yards from the right sideline). I personally think Rodgers would have been buried around the 3 or 4 yard line, but what do I know.
the video. If he doesn't get in - he gets damn close:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1353478571898015744
Yeah, that's the video I saw, but those 2 DB's would have closed on him as soon as he crossed the LOS. I do think if he had run, he would have gotten close enough to influence LaFleur to go for it, but I don't think he would have made it. Maybe the Aaron Rodgers of 5-6 years ago.
are moving left and have their backs turned. Rodgers has to outrun JPP and Suh. He's at the 10 with a 2 yard advantage. If he doesn't get in, he's close enough where a 4th down play isn't even a tough decision to go for it.
RE: Rodgers definitely could have made a play there
LaFleur's decision is grabbing the headlines, but Rodgers couldn't get it done. LaFleur even admitted in the postgame that his decision to take the points and rely on his defense was influenced by the fact that the offense couldn't get any yards from the 8 in three tries.
Sure, but Rodgers also had a WR who forgot to look up for the ball on first down, had a DT on his back on 2nd down. As I said, I think running on 3rd would have gotten him close enough to force LaFleur's hand, but he saw a guy open briefly and tried to squeeze it in.
are moving left and have their backs turned. Rodgers has to outrun JPP and Suh. He's at the 10 with a 2 yard advantage. If he doesn't get in, he's close enough where a 4th down play isn't even a tough decision to go for it.
Definitely agree with that, had he run, he would have forced LaFleur's hand with a 4th & goal at the 2 0r 3.
If Rodgers pump fakes to the middle, he likely scores. Suh and Barrett are behind Rodgers when he steps up in the pocket. Suh has the better angle, but I don't think he can walk Rodgers down from behind.
He's under control and halfway going for the bat down: waiting on Rodgers' throw and getting his hand up. I think the poster above was right about a quick pump fake and running right gets him a shot at 6. At the very least they're within a few yards of the end zone and LaFleur likely goes for it.
are moving left and have their backs turned. Rodgers has to outrun JPP and Suh. He's at the 10 with a 2 yard advantage. If he doesn't get in, he's close enough where a 4th down play isn't even a tough decision to go for it.
I keep watching the clip and it’s a tough call ... I’d tend to trust Rodger’s instincts and feel, but it would’ve been close. Maybe if he got to the 2 or 3, LaFleur goes for it though.
He's under control and halfway going for the bat down: waiting on Rodgers' throw and getting his hand up. I think the poster above was right about a quick pump fake and running right gets him a shot at 6. At the very least they're within a few yards of the end zone and LaFleur likely goes for it.
Yeah maybe you’re right.
RE: Mike Pettine calling man coverage with 6 seconds left in the 1st half
And Tampa Bay at the 40 yard line was easily the worst call of the day
I've looked at that play multiple times now because to me it was pretty much changed the whole dynamic of the game. All the momentum and GB tightened up right there and then.
Actually wrote before I thought it was 3 or quarters, but it it was man single high. Just unbelievably sloppy and Pettine getting a pass here is perplexing. This is an Arians coached team, give him a shot he's taking it. Is it surprising an Arians football team ran 4 vertical routes? No of course not. They should have been playing man cover 2 in that spot. It's going to be a long fg on grass either way.
RE: RE: Mike Pettine calling man coverage with 6 seconds left in the 1st half
And Tampa Bay at the 40 yard line was easily the worst call of the day
I've looked at that play multiple times now because to me it was pretty much changed the whole dynamic of the game. All the momentum and GB tightened up right there and then.
Actually wrote before I thought it was 3 or quarters, but it it was man single high. Just unbelievably sloppy and Pettine getting a pass here is perplexing. This is an Arians coached team, give him a shot he's taking it. Is it surprising an Arians football team ran 4 vertical routes? No of course not. They should have been playing man cover 2 in that spot. It's going to be a long fg on grass either way.
Agreed it was huge. But I’d say the Jones fumble — and subsequent injury — hurt the most. Jones is an incredible red zone weapon too, big hit to no have him on the field down the stretch.
3 failed tries to get into the endzone. Now they have to do it twice in a row just to tie. Kicking the FG wasn't a bad idea. The D didn't hold up.
But if they do score — and they have Rodgers and Adams from inside the 10, the two best TD producers in the sport this year — and don’t get the 2, they just need a FG to win if the D gets a stop.
RE: RE: Mike Pettine calling man coverage with 6 seconds left in the 1st half
And Tampa Bay at the 40 yard line was easily the worst call of the day
I've looked at that play multiple times now because to me it was pretty much changed the whole dynamic of the game. All the momentum and GB tightened up right there and then.
Actually wrote before I thought it was 3 or quarters, but it it was man single high. Just unbelievably sloppy and Pettine getting a pass here is perplexing. This is an Arians coached team, give him a shot he's taking it. Is it surprising an Arians football team ran 4 vertical routes? No of course not. They should have been playing man cover 2 in that spot. It's going to be a long fg on grass either way.
It was a big mistake by coaches and King himself. And then it was only magnified at beginning of 3Q when Aaron Jones fumbled and the Bucs went right in fro another score.
The game went from 14-10 to 28-10 and Rodgers had a big uphill battle to fight.
I’m surprised by how many people disagreed with the decision
The chances of scoring a TD on 4th and goal from the 8 is low. Then you have to convert on the 2 pt try. Then you have to prevent TB who is now operating with their full playbook trying to move down the field, rather than a TB team that will be more conservative in trying to run whatever clock they can.
I agreed the moment it happened and continue to feel LaFleur made the right call. Of course there is the risk you don’t see the ball again, but the same risk exists if it’s a 31-31, 31-29, or 31-23 game. Making it 31-26 puts you in a position to win the game in regulation.
In essence 3 things needed to happen. GB needed, in no particular order, a 2/3 point play, a TD, and a stop. Basically, kicking the FG served as the 2 point conversion, only it allowed them to play for the win instead of the tie.
Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Easy for me to say but at that point, I'm more inclined to trust Rodgers to make a play than a so-so defense to make a stop. Maybe analytics indicate otherwise but I think you just put the game in the hands of an all-time great player.
3 failed tries to get into the endzone. Now they have to do it twice in a row just to tie. Kicking the FG wasn't a bad idea. The D didn't hold up.
Agreed. The D had to step up and get the ball back. There was plenty of time and the Packers basically had four TOs with the two minute warning. And, if you recall, they committed the very smart offside penalty after the nine yard catch by Evans (on the first play after the kickoff) to give Tampa the automatic first down. Which kept the clock and situation still in Green Bay's favor...
Unfortunately, Kevin King, who made three enormous mistakes yesterday, committed the fatal one on third and seven with the interference call on Johnson. Johnson was running a flat route and would have NEVER caught the ball. But King couldn't do anything right. So the game ended with the defensive goat bailing out the GOAT.
in NFL history this year. 48 TD's in 60 trips. 7x they had 4th down inside the 10, 5x they went for it. This time they didn't. It was a bad call.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
You know who is getting a big mulligan in this situation? Rodgers is, he had an easy 6+ yards if not a TD if he took off running on the 3rd down play instead of forcing a pass into a crowd. 4th and 2 is a whole lot easier to go for it then 4th and 9
RE: RE: RE: The Packers had the best red zone offense
in NFL history this year. 48 TD's in 60 trips. 7x they had 4th down inside the 10, 5x they went for it. This time they didn't. It was a bad call.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
You know who is getting a big mulligan in this situation? Rodgers is, he had an easy 6+ yards if not a TD if he took off running on the 3rd down play instead of forcing a pass into a crowd. 4th and 2 is a whole lot easier to go for it then 4th and 9
I don't know if he's getting a mulligan - at least what I'm listening to - but that yardage would have certainly helped. He's a bit lucky, too, that third down pass wasn't picked off. That was a real force into tight coverage.
The killer on that series was the first down RPO where Rodgers faked the run, threw to Lazard, but Lazard never read the play and the ball just sailed by...
Even if they do not convert on 4th down, the Bucs would have to be very conservative with their backs to the goal. If I were Rodgers, I would be furious today. Terrible blunder.
in NFL history this year. 48 TD's in 60 trips. 7x they had 4th down inside the 10, 5x they went for it. This time they didn't. It was a bad call.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
Maybe so, but kicking the ball to TB and asking your D to stop them and THEN drive most of the field with little time left and no TO’s would be a lower conversion rate.
I will say, the offense let them down in my opinion. Couple chances there with Brady on the ropes and they did zip.
He'll be fired in 2 years. Two years too late.
Just sayin’
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
Drafting Rodgers in the first when you had the gunslinger Favre still playing at a high level rather then draft Heath Miller really paid dividends.
These facts versus holding Tampa for three downs.
I see the logic and no this will not end the head coaches career at 40.
The bigger question is how much longer do you give Rogers? I wonder how Love has progressed. Can put more of a team around him if he is the goods and still get comp for Rogers.
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Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
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Using that pick on Jordan Love instead of Patrick Queen or Clyde Edwards Helaire really paid dividends.
Drafting Rodgers in the first when you had the gunslinger Favre still playing at a high level rather then draft Heath Miller really paid dividends.
Completely different situations. If you listen to the Packers organization they didn't want to draft Rodgers and wanted him to go earlier but he kept dropping. SF was going to take Rodgers number 1 overall. They decided on Smith because he was like Montana with his accuracy.
Lets look at Love. They completely overdrafted him. Rodgers could have went 1st overall and Love was a second round pick where people fell in love with his measureables. He played at a lower level of competition, couldn't read defenses, and threw a ton of interceptions. People want Love to be like Rodgers for comparison sake but it simply isn't the same situation at all.
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In comment 15132935 Big Blue '56 said:
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Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
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Using that pick on Jordan Love instead of Patrick Queen or Clyde Edwards Helaire really paid dividends.
Drafting Rodgers in the first when you had the gunslinger Favre still playing at a high level rather then draft Heath Miller really paid dividends.
So you’re saying Love is Aaron Rodgers?
From what yard line would you have kicked it?
Fourth and goal from the 20? The 30?
Kicking the FG was the obvious choice.
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
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In comment 15132941 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15132935 Big Blue '56 said:
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Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
Could be. Not sure what TC would have done, but when you get to the NFCC, there has to be some trust in your D.
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In comment 15132978 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15132941 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15132935 Big Blue '56 said:
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Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
Could be. Not sure what TC would have done, but when you get to the NFCC, there has to be some trust in your D.
Your D needs a stop either way, correct? What you do is take one less opportunity away from your QB and have better field position of you fail.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
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to kick a FG in my opinion
From what yard line would you have kicked it?
Fourth and goal from the 20? The 30?
Kicking the FG was the obvious choice.
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
Completely disagree. So if they scored the TD but didn’t get the 2pt conversion they still only need a stop and now only need a FG with 3 timeouts and two minute warning still in hand. Worst case scenario is they don’t score the TD and TB gets the ball at the 8 yard line. The downside and risk of the worst case scenario was not near bad enough to kick the FG and hope and pray you get the ball back
These facts versus holding Tampa for three downs.
I see the logic and no this will not end the head coaches career at 40.
The bigger question is how much longer do you give Rogers? I wonder how Love has progressed. Can put more of a team around him if he is the goods and still get comp for Rogers.
thats whats over looked. the TD without the 2 your in the same situation as the field goal. And tj Defense made the stop Brady had a bad throw if there was no shirt grab Green Bay had a chance.
Im not sure it was the right call but it wasnt wtf call.
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to kick a FG in my opinion
From what yard line would you have kicked it?
Fourth and goal from the 20? The 30?
Kicking the FG was the obvious choice.
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
Wrong.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
I dont know how anyone sees the strategy.
They needed a touchdown before, they needed a touchdown after. They still could have gotten a stop if the Packers went for it on 4th down and didn't get it. And up 8 the Bucs are going to be very conservative pinned deep in their own end.
And this is ALL assuming they DONT get the touchdown, which with Rodgers even on 4th and 8 you have a decent shot.
Field goal never should have been an option unless it was 4th and 25.
Just sayin’
He decreased his chances to win the game by 3% kicking the field goal there instead of going for it.
There isn't an argument to be made for kicking it besides being a contrarian. It was a terrible call in every way.
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opportunities today and couldn't capitalize.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
I dont know how anyone sees the strategy.
They needed a touchdown before, they needed a touchdown after. They still could have gotten a stop if the Packers went for it on 4th down and didn't get it. And up 8 the Bucs are going to be very conservative pinned deep in their own end.
And this is ALL assuming they DONT get the touchdown, which with Rodgers even on 4th and 8 you have a decent shot.
Field goal never should have been an option unless it was 4th and 25.
Again, I saw the strategy and didn't find it outrageous. So I'm sort of agnostic on the decision.
The Green Bay D had three timeouts and Tampa pinned at the 20+. You are at home and have to make the stop. It's that simple.
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In comment 15132998 bw in dc said:
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opportunities today and couldn't capitalize.
LaFleur called a poor game in the 4th quarter, especially on that first and goal from the 8.
But I saw the strategy with the FG. It wasn't crazy. The Green Bay D - "led" by Kevin King - couldn't do their job to get the ball back. And they had their chances for sure...
I dont know how anyone sees the strategy.
They needed a touchdown before, they needed a touchdown after. They still could have gotten a stop if the Packers went for it on 4th down and didn't get it. And up 8 the Bucs are going to be very conservative pinned deep in their own end.
And this is ALL assuming they DONT get the touchdown, which with Rodgers even on 4th and 8 you have a decent shot.
Field goal never should have been an option unless it was 4th and 25.
Again, I saw the strategy and didn't find it outrageous. So I'm sort of agnostic on the decision.
The Green Bay D had three timeouts and Tampa pinned at the 20+. You are at home and have to make the stop. It's that simple.
But you could go for it and not get it and rely on your defense to get you the ball back, and the Bucs absolutely are going to be a lot more conservative up 8 than up 5 and pinned in their own end.
On top of that, you give your MVP a chance to tie the game on 4th and 8 and not take the ball out of his hands.
Everything pointed to going for it. Common sense, metrics, everything.
It's scary that kicking it was even an option.
Look, they had a great chance at a stop on third and seven. Right. So the table was set.
Unfortunately, Kevin King made another dumb play and the game continued. Otherwise, Green Bay gets the ball back.
Analytics can't account for the dumb variable.
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Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
If Rodgers had run it on that 3rd down with no one in front of him it would have been at the worse a 4th and 2 to go for a TD instead of 8 to go. That would have changed the whole course of that series
Even if you didn’t agree with LaFleur’s decision, describing it as the end of his GB career is loony.
Get the ball back to your HOF QB with about 1:45 to go. He has maybe 8-10 plays to win and the opportunity to connect on a big play. Defense has to protect a much bigger field
4th and 8 to score is tough. No threat to run or play action. Difficult down.
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Allows GB to win with a TD if they get the ball back. The issue is, with Brady it is unlikely they get the ball back.
Look, they had a great chance at a stop on third and seven. Right. So the table was set.
Unfortunately, Kevin King made another dumb play and the game continued. Otherwise, Green Bay gets the ball back.
Analytics can't account for the dumb variable.
Analytics may not but it’s a coaches job to account for any potential “dumb variable”. This is an offensive league. You know that. The coach should know that. We’ve seen time and time and time again an offense get bailed out by an untimely defensive holding or PI call. The decision needs to take that into account. It’s not as easy as just telling your defense to go make a stop. The deck is stacked against them.
Even if you didn’t agree with LaFleur’s decision, describing it as the end of his GB career is loony.
No they did not need two scores. They needed a TD. And after kicking the FG they still needed a TD
he clearly didn't do that. the thinking everyone presumed then was ok this guy wants to score and go for 2 and not leave the bucs any time to go win the game
then this fucking idiot kicked the FG. every player on that team should revolt and demand he be fired.
One being in overtime, when someone HAD to score. So this is a silly argument.
Are you an idiot? 8 points is a one score game. Needing a two point conversion DOES NOT make it a two score game. Do you count an extra point try as needing an extra score? Wtf is wrong with you? Since when does anyone consider an 8 point game a two score game?
I’m the one that needs to put down the beer?
They needed 1 score to get it to overtime. Silly argument. Someone would have to score in overtime.
The probabilities behind this decision are not easy to calculate. It would take us hours to calculate them and there would be judgment calls involved. Maybe LaFleur was wrong but to label it a “dumb” decision is just too critical.
Analytics may not but it’s a coaches job to account for any potential “dumb variable”. This is an offensive league. You know that. The coach should know that. We’ve seen time and time and time again an offense get bailed out by an untimely defensive holding or PI call. The decision needs to take that into account. It’s not as easy as just telling your defense to go make a stop. The deck is stacked against them.
The Green Bay D did hold the Bucs to one TD only and three Brady INTs in the second half. So they were getting stops. Right?
So asking for another stop - again, the did have third and seven - wasn't at all unreasonable at that point. IMV.
The probabilities behind this decision are not easy to calculate. It would take us hours to calculate them and there would be judgment calls involved. Maybe LaFleur was wrong but to label it a “dumb” decision is just too critical.
no pretty sure it was dumb
Put the game in the hands of your best player, don’t expect your slightly above average D to make a stop against an all time great QB.
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In comment 15132941 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15132935 Big Blue '56 said:
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Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
Lets play. You would rather choose the FG, worse field position after the kickoff, take the ball out of the NFL MVP's hands, and asking your D to basically stop TB from getting 1 first down
Or
Give your NFL MVP one more shot and worst case scenario it is still a one score game with the ball at the 8 yard line.
I choose my QB in this situation over my D.
The NFL MVP had 3 straight incompletions from the 8. No guarantee that he’ll throw the TD. And even if they don’t kick the FG and they get the ball back, there’s far from a guarantee that they get the 2 point conversion to tie. So it can be argued with a FG and 3 TOs and the 2 minute warning in your pocket, you still have a chance to score where a TD takes the lead. GB may not have a stellar D, but it has been good enough TO HELP get the Packers to where they got to. It wasn’t ONLY Rodgers, as great as he is during the regular season
And if you play the odds it is more likely Rodgers doesn't fail 4 times in a row.
Sounds an awful lot like the gambler's fallacy there - failing three times doesn't change the odds of the fourth attempt.
Of more interest to me, where was Rodgers urging on his coach to actually go for it? I didn't see that - cameras didn't seem to focus on Rodgers.
You see QBs all the time - holding up their hands and saying - we are going for it. Esp a QB with the cache of Rodgers.
And I agree - where was ANYONE giving a sh#t on the Packers?
Makes you wonder....
These coaches really need a 'time and situation' assistant coach it seems to manage. It seems obvious to the fans, I'm guessing they are too sucked into the game to take a step back and look at the big picture.
One of the most idiotic Defensive calls I have ever seen. That was every bit as bad as Greg Williams call that got him fired
Yup!
That took guts AaRod doesnt have.
Fuck him, Im glad he lost. Again.
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And Tampa Bay at the 40 yard line was easily the worst call of the day
One of the most idiotic Defensive calls I have ever seen. That was every bit as bad as Greg Williams call that got him fired
Man was fine...but not PRESS , or whatever the fuck it was King was playing. That didnt look like scheme to me....more like Tampa saw Kimg being over aggressive and really had not choice base on time, down and distance.
Man woulda been fine...even ten yards off....JUST DONT LET HIM GET BEHIND YOU.
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In comment 15132942 jeff57 said:
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Using that pick on Jordan Love instead of Patrick Queen or Clyde Edwards Helaire really paid dividends.
Drafting Rodgers in the first when you had the gunslinger Favre still playing at a high level rather then draft Heath Miller really paid dividends.
So you’re saying Love is Aaron Rodgers?
Yeah thats exactly what I said... not. I am saying you can't shit on the Packers for taking a QB that their coach and front office really liked.
You go on 4th down. Bowles is going all out blitz. One of Rodgers WR or TE will be open.
If not, 1st and ten at the 8 for Bucs. Much harder to get a 1st down from the 8 then the 20 or 25 yard line.
It's a tough winter knowing that the absolute worst decision was made by your coach..... statistically and stylistically the most unlikely path to win that gane is what he chose.
At 37 years of age, I'm not sure how AR can reconcile being Coached by him....I don't know how any player can accept that decision.
When the D is falling apart, they always have this deer in the headlight look. I think Coughlin (and hopefully Judge), could give better direction when the D wheels start coming off.
LaFleur can cram it up his cram hole
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to kick a FG in my opinion
From what yard line would you have kicked it?
Fourth and goal from the 20? The 30?
Kicking the FG was the obvious choice.
People are missing that not only did you need to make the fourth and goal. You ALSO had to make the two point conversion. You ALSO had to survive Brady not getting into FG range with his last possession before halftime. And IF all that succeeded, you are at 50/50 in OT.
Kick the FG and you are a stop away from having the ball in hand to win the game.
Expecting to get that stop was the problem. Granted, the D played well in the 2nd half, but taking the ball out of your best player's hands even though a FG still leaves you needing a TD to win.
To top that off, they decide to allow the KR to return the KO, and brought it back to near midfield. Worst case if you go for it on 4th down, you don't get it, you're still down one score, and you're giving Brady the ball on the 8.
Ask yourself, how would Belichick have handled this? This was a no-brainer, and LaFleur blew it. He's a good coach, but this wasn't his greatest moment.
Just sayin’
So worst case scenario he goes for it and doesn't get it, then they have to stop the Bucs and that's exactly what they had to do with the best case scenario of a field goal.
vs.
having to get a 3-and-out against Tom Brady
AND
then scoring a TD with under a minute left, having to go the length of the field and no timeouts
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It honestly may have been the worst coaching decision I've ever seen in a big spot.
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Rodgers has a first and goal at the TB 8. Rodgers has 3 straight incompletions. Now it’s 4th and 8 with zero guarantee he’ll toss the TD. So he settles for a FG with 3 TOs and the two-minute warning to play with.
Just sayin’
So worst case scenario he goes for it and doesn't get it, then they have to stop the Bucs and that's exactly what they had to do with the best case scenario of a field goal.
Not certain whether you’re agreeing or disagreeing..:)
vs.
having to get a 3-and-out against Tom Brady
AND
then scoring a TD with under a minute left, having to go the length of the field and no timeouts
-------------
It honestly may have been the worst coaching decision I've ever seen in a big spot.
Did you miss the Seahawks vs Pats SB? :p
Devils advocate here, but your comp is wrong. It's:
One play from 8 yard line AND 2 pt conversion AND having to get a stop against TB AND last second GW FG (or OT victory)
No matter what he choose on the 4th and 8, they needed to stop TB and the Bucs.
Suh and Barrett are right behind him. But only Suh had the best angle and he's probably not going to catch him.
There may a defender in the back of the right side of the endzone, but I think he's moving to the middle trailing a crossing receiver
But if Rodgers pump fakes to the middle, I do think he likely scores.
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One play from the 8 yard line with perhaps the best QB ever
vs.
having to get a 3-and-out against Tom Brady
AND
then scoring a TD with under a minute left, having to go the length of the field and no timeouts
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It honestly may have been the worst coaching decision I've ever seen in a big spot.
Did you miss the Seahawks vs Pats SB? :p
Devils advocate here, but your comp is wrong. It's:
One play from 8 yard line AND 2 pt conversion AND having to get a stop against TB AND last second GW FG (or OT victory)
No matter what he choose on the 4th and 8, they needed to stop TB and the Bucs.
That's why it was a dumb decision. Either way they'd need to stop TB. But if you kick a FG you still need to score a TD, but this time likely starting from your own 25 yard line (best case scenario).
But if you are trying to stop TB and they are starting at their own 8 yard line, you will get much better field position, and if something bad happens to TB you are set up beautifully.
Yup, massive choke.
Did you miss the Seahawks vs Pats SB? :p
Devils advocate here, but your comp is wrong. It's:
One play from 8 yard line AND 2 pt conversion AND having to get a stop against TB AND last second GW FG (or OT victory)
No matter what he choose on the 4th and 8, they needed to stop TB and the Bucs.
Fair point, but there's a difference between stopping them from scoring and stopping them from getting a 1st down.
he lost 300 grand
link - ( New Window )
He made a call that said the best player on the team, who is a top all time player, would not be able to get 2 yards. However, our defense will stop Brady and get the ball back
Even if they missed there were in the same situation on defense after the kickoff
Terrible
Under every circumstance - td, fg, or miss on 4th down, your team is going to be back on defense. So what position can you put them and your team in? You need to score 8 to tie and give yourself a chance to win.
With a td+2, the defense is on even footing and TB may play tight to avoid another turnover. Playing for OT starts to become a factor. Helps the defense. If you miss the two point conversion, you’re still on defense but now a fg can win the game.
Missing the fourth down attempt puts Bucs backs against the wall, and Bucs are probably running in an attempt to give space to the punter, bleed the clock, force GB to use their timeouts, and maybe they break one off if lucky. Defense needs to make a stop to get a chance to tie. Field position benefit to the defense. Still need to score a td+2.
Fg relieves pressure of field position and defense needs to make a stop to get a chance to win. Defense will only realize a benefit if special teams makes a big play, but you’re probably kicking the ball out of the back of the end zone to prevent a big return. Still need to score a td, but don’t have to go for 2pts.
In every circumstance, the defense needs to make a stop to prevent a loss, and your offense is going to need points on the ensuing drive. The field goal really didn’t do anything for them except remove a guaranteed opportunity to take a shot into the end zone from close range and give up field position. There is an argument to be made that if you need to make a stop and you need to make one more score, why not make it be for the win. I just don’t think it is very persuasive.
—
And not handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch is still the worst call in the history of football, including our own sordid history of bad calls.
There is no way he makes it in. There were 3 defenders right on the goal line, and Rodgers doesn't have the foot speed to go 8 yards before they go 4. I do think that if he had run it, by getting closer to the goal line, he may have influenced LaFleur to go for it, but he would not have scored.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1353478571898015744
The 2 DB's were on the goal line, just to the right of the right hash. JPP was about 3 yds to Rodgers left as he threw the ball. No way he gets into the end zone. I saved a still of the shot, but don't recall where I can save it online to post here.
In the photo I saw, JPP was in full gallop and had an angle on Rodgers and there were two CBs on the goal line on top of the right hashmark (and a CB about 5 yards deep in the end zone only a few yards from the right sideline). I personally think Rodgers would have been buried around the 3 or 4 yard line, but what do I know.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1353478571898015744
Yeah, that's the video I saw, but those 2 DB's would have closed on him as soon as he crossed the LOS. I do think if he had run, he would have gotten close enough to influence LaFleur to go for it, but I don't think he would have made it. Maybe the Aaron Rodgers of 5-6 years ago.
Sure, but Rodgers also had a WR who forgot to look up for the ball on first down, had a DT on his back on 2nd down. As I said, I think running on 3rd would have gotten him close enough to force LaFleur's hand, but he saw a guy open briefly and tried to squeeze it in.
Definitely agree with that, had he run, he would have forced LaFleur's hand with a 4th & goal at the 2 0r 3.
I keep watching the clip and it’s a tough call ... I’d tend to trust Rodger’s instincts and feel, but it would’ve been close. Maybe if he got to the 2 or 3, LaFleur goes for it though.
Yeah maybe you’re right.
I've looked at that play multiple times now because to me it was pretty much changed the whole dynamic of the game. All the momentum and GB tightened up right there and then.
Actually wrote before I thought it was 3 or quarters, but it it was man single high. Just unbelievably sloppy and Pettine getting a pass here is perplexing. This is an Arians coached team, give him a shot he's taking it. Is it surprising an Arians football team ran 4 vertical routes? No of course not. They should have been playing man cover 2 in that spot. It's going to be a long fg on grass either way.
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And Tampa Bay at the 40 yard line was easily the worst call of the day
I've looked at that play multiple times now because to me it was pretty much changed the whole dynamic of the game. All the momentum and GB tightened up right there and then.
Actually wrote before I thought it was 3 or quarters, but it it was man single high. Just unbelievably sloppy and Pettine getting a pass here is perplexing. This is an Arians coached team, give him a shot he's taking it. Is it surprising an Arians football team ran 4 vertical routes? No of course not. They should have been playing man cover 2 in that spot. It's going to be a long fg on grass either way.
Agreed it was huge. But I’d say the Jones fumble — and subsequent injury — hurt the most. Jones is an incredible red zone weapon too, big hit to no have him on the field down the stretch.
But if they do score — and they have Rodgers and Adams from inside the 10, the two best TD producers in the sport this year — and don’t get the 2, they just need a FG to win if the D gets a stop.
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And Tampa Bay at the 40 yard line was easily the worst call of the day
I've looked at that play multiple times now because to me it was pretty much changed the whole dynamic of the game. All the momentum and GB tightened up right there and then.
Actually wrote before I thought it was 3 or quarters, but it it was man single high. Just unbelievably sloppy and Pettine getting a pass here is perplexing. This is an Arians coached team, give him a shot he's taking it. Is it surprising an Arians football team ran 4 vertical routes? No of course not. They should have been playing man cover 2 in that spot. It's going to be a long fg on grass either way.
It was a big mistake by coaches and King himself. And then it was only magnified at beginning of 3Q when Aaron Jones fumbled and the Bucs went right in fro another score.
The game went from 14-10 to 28-10 and Rodgers had a big uphill battle to fight.
I agreed the moment it happened and continue to feel LaFleur made the right call. Of course there is the risk you don’t see the ball again, but the same risk exists if it’s a 31-31, 31-29, or 31-23 game. Making it 31-26 puts you in a position to win the game in regulation.
In essence 3 things needed to happen. GB needed, in no particular order, a 2/3 point play, a TD, and a stop. Basically, kicking the FG served as the 2 point conversion, only it allowed them to play for the win instead of the tie.
Just sayin’
Easy for me to say but at that point, I'm more inclined to trust Rodgers to make a play than a so-so defense to make a stop. Maybe analytics indicate otherwise but I think you just put the game in the hands of an all-time great player.
Agreed. The D had to step up and get the ball back. There was plenty of time and the Packers basically had four TOs with the two minute warning. And, if you recall, they committed the very smart offside penalty after the nine yard catch by Evans (on the first play after the kickoff) to give Tampa the automatic first down. Which kept the clock and situation still in Green Bay's favor...
Unfortunately, Kevin King, who made three enormous mistakes yesterday, committed the fatal one on third and seven with the interference call on Johnson. Johnson was running a flat route and would have NEVER caught the ball. But King couldn't do anything right. So the game ended with the defensive goat bailing out the GOAT.
Great add. This goes to context that goes beyond the surface of the decision.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
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in NFL history this year. 48 TD's in 60 trips. 7x they had 4th down inside the 10, 5x they went for it. This time they didn't. It was a bad call.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
You know who is getting a big mulligan in this situation? Rodgers is, he had an easy 6+ yards if not a TD if he took off running on the 3rd down play instead of forcing a pass into a crowd. 4th and 2 is a whole lot easier to go for it then 4th and 9
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In comment 15134272 Section331 said:
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in NFL history this year. 48 TD's in 60 trips. 7x they had 4th down inside the 10, 5x they went for it. This time they didn't. It was a bad call.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
You know who is getting a big mulligan in this situation? Rodgers is, he had an easy 6+ yards if not a TD if he took off running on the 3rd down play instead of forcing a pass into a crowd. 4th and 2 is a whole lot easier to go for it then 4th and 9
I don't know if he's getting a mulligan - at least what I'm listening to - but that yardage would have certainly helped. He's a bit lucky, too, that third down pass wasn't picked off. That was a real force into tight coverage.
The killer on that series was the first down RPO where Rodgers faked the run, threw to Lazard, but Lazard never read the play and the ball just sailed by...
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in NFL history this year. 48 TD's in 60 trips. 7x they had 4th down inside the 10, 5x they went for it. This time they didn't. It was a bad call.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
Quote:
in NFL history this year. 48 TD's in 60 trips. 7x they had 4th down inside the 10, 5x they went for it. This time they didn't. It was a bad call.
4th and goal from the 9 has to have a very low conversion %, even with Rodgers at the helm.
Maybe so, but kicking the ball to TB and asking your D to stop them and THEN drive most of the field with little time left and no TO’s would be a lower conversion rate.