Well, what do you think, choke artist or not in the big games?
The one Super Bowl Rodgers won he had Clay Mathews in his prime.
Rodgers ain't no Eli Manning.
Brady is the GOAT and Eli beat him twice while Brady was in his prime.
Eli the GOAT killer. The Silent Assasin.
If you won't acknowledge that, you're dishonest and everything you've said about QB's for the past ten years is bullshit.
Again, at least be consistent.
BBI in a nutshell
In fact, there was an article this morning on several missed opportunities by Rodgers late in the game.
You don't think those would be beaten to death here this morning? Or it would just be a "team game" still?
Should Aaron Rodgers have run for potentially game-tying TD vs. Bucs? - ( New Window )
So in that vein, at what point does losing 4 out of 5 NFCC games point to Rodgers, even a little bit?
Over and out..
It does. But you need to be willing to accept that certain things are unknown to us as fans, and also accept that many things are simply unexplainable. Doesn't make for good convo, but that the truth of it.
The word "choker" is an overused cliche in sports. It used to be reserved for the closer in baseball that would melt under pressure, or the QB that would always seem to throw a pick in a big spot. Now its simply assigned to anyone that didn't get a ring, or in the case, multiple rings. Many on this board think that Russell Wilson is a choker despite being #2 all time (behind Rodgers at #1) in QB efficiency all time. Mahomes is up there as well just needs more seasons to qualify.
I don't have a good answer for you but I do know that Rodgers is a great QB and has fallen short over the years for a myriad of reasons.
But I didn't write the book on Elite QB's on BBI. I'm just applying them to everybody fairly.
There's really no comparison of Eli's career or credentials to Rodgers'.
It never should.
I don't agree with this.
Eli played like an elite QB in stretches, not moments - some longer than others.
I also thought the HC made a brutal decision late in the
game, kick a field goal, really?
Rodgers made a bad decision when he could have run for
a TD, or close to it as well. It would have been 4th and short at worst.
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King, in particular, had a brutal day.
.
I also thought the HC made a brutal decision late in the
game, kick a field goal, really?
Rodgers made a bad decision when he could have run for
a TD, or close to it as well. It would have been 4th and short at worst.
I agree those are additional factors that fed into the sixty minutes of football. But, they're in the hole because of King and Jones putting about 4-5 really negative plays on the field, and a 28-10 on the scoreboard.
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In comment 15133751 JonC said:
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King, in particular, had a brutal day.
.
I also thought the HC made a brutal decision late in the
game, kick a field goal, really?
Rodgers made a bad decision when he could have run for
a TD, or close to it as well. It would have been 4th and short at worst.
I agree those are additional factors that fed into the sixty minutes of football. But, they're in the hole because of King and Jones putting about 4-5 really negative plays on the field, and a 28-10 on the scoreboard.
Yep, the Pack cost themselves late in the first half,
and the turnover the beg, of the second half big time.
Tony Dungy apparently tweeted, 'that was the worst defense he had ever seen at the end of the first half'.
If you won't acknowledge that, you're dishonest and everything you've said about QB's for the past ten years is bullshit.
Again, at least be consistent.
This is bullshit. If Daniel Jones had thrown for 350 yards and 3 TD's in an NFCCG loss, BBI would not be blaming him. Some of you are too desperate to prove a point.
Again, I don't blame Rodgers for the loss. He's an incredible player and the main reason they are there in the first place.
But by the rules created on this site, he is mostly to blame.
Sorry, those are the rules.
In fact, there was an article this morning on several missed opportunities by Rodgers late in the game.
You don't think those would be beaten to death here this morning? Or it would just be a "team game" still? Should Aaron Rodgers have run for potentially game-tying TD vs. Bucs? - ( New Window )
It was actually Devante Adams on the free play, but yeah, Rodgers blew it. A QB HAS TO recognize single coverage, especially when it's your best WR.
You can make the argument that Rodgers should have run on that 3rd down play, but make no mistake, he would not have scored. There were defenders all across the goal line. Maybe getting closer influences LaFleur's decision to go for it, but you're trying to pull out all stops to somehow prove that BBI'ers are being hypocrites for not blaming Rodgers.
Again, I don't blame Rodgers for the loss. He's an incredible player and the main reason they are there in the first place.
But by the rules created on this site, he is mostly to blame.
Sorry, those are the rules.
In your mind, those are the rules, but point to me games where Jones played well but BBI blamed him for the loss? You just aren't willing to admit that Jones played poorly this year. I'm not sure it's "BBI" that has the problem.
If you won't acknowledge that, you're dishonest and everything you've said about QB's for the past ten years is bullshit.
Again, at least be consistent.
I don't think that's fair. At least from my end.
Those plays I listed were watershed moments in yesterday's game that led to 21 points for Tampa. And they were completely out of the QB's (Rodgers) hands.
So if the Giants were in a similar game with Eli, and Jackrabbit was doing his impression of Kevin King, I would harp on that today. And question scheme, responsibility, etc on the defense.
Now, I do put a lot of emphasis on the play of the QB because he touches the ball the most, but I always try to analyze the game through the bigger lens...
I did not create that culture on this site. I'm just pointing out when it is not being applied fairly.
Why King is getting all this heat and Pettine is getting off scot free is shocking to me. It’s tough to tell but they had their safety on field side lining up 6-7 yards off ball! I can’t even tell if they are playing quarters or 3. Just sloppy as shit and that’s on DC
Why King is getting all this heat and Pettine is getting off scot free is shocking to me. It’s tough to tell but they had their safety on field side lining up 6-7 yards off ball! I can’t even tell if they are playing quarters or 3. Just sloppy as shit and that’s on DC
Pettine is getting a little heat, but King was beaten like a drum all game long, hell, all year long. GB needs to upgrade that spot badly. King had like a 105 QB rating against him this year.
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but he did produce a few elite moments in the NFL. He can do one while not being the other, and he did.
I don't agree with this.
Eli played like an elite QB in stretches, not moments - some longer than others.
I hope Jones develops to be as average as Eli was. We would be lucky as fans if that happens. I hope every Giant QB for the rest of my sports watching days can become as mediocre as Eli Manning
If you won't acknowledge that, you're dishonest and everything you've said about QB's for the past ten years is bullshit.
Again, at least be consistent.
Good post Britt - I was actually thinking about BBI QB-bashers in the context of Brady and his 3 second-half interceptions. Imagine the venom if Jones threw three second half interceptions in a regular season game, much less a Conference Championship?
BTW - I always thought that the GOAT comparison was Brady versus Montana not Peyton Manning. The GOAT argument was decided many years ago though.
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In comment 15133826 JonC said:
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but he did produce a few elite moments in the NFL. He can do one while not being the other, and he did.
I don't agree with this.
Eli played like an elite QB in stretches, not moments - some longer than others.
I hope Jones develops to be as average as Eli was. We would be lucky as fans if that happens. I hope every Giant QB for the rest of my sports watching days can become as mediocre as Eli Manning
It’s redundant to say but ... he’s won as many SBs as Favre and Rodgers combined.
Simple, and not a knock, very few special QB's have.
Just facts. Maybe next year is Rodgers' year.
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against an Ariana coached team. If you give him 1 on 1 opportunity down the sideline they are taking it.
Why King is getting all this heat and Pettine is getting off scot free is shocking to me. It’s tough to tell but they had their safety on field side lining up 6-7 yards off ball! I can’t even tell if they are playing quarters or 3. Just sloppy as shit and that’s on DC
Pettine is getting a little heat, but King was beaten like a drum all game long, hell, all year long. GB needs to upgrade that spot badly. King had like a 105 QB rating against him this year.
I'm rewatched it again when Jlukes said he was in man and lo and behold it was man single high. Is it a suprise they ran 4 verticals there? No of course not! This is Arians. You have two LBer essentially just picking their butts out there with Fournette in the game pass blocking. Just an awful, awful call. The Bucs are way too talented on the outside to be playing friggin man cover 1 there. Personally, I like cover 2 man in that spot, but can't go wrong with quarters either. It's like they forgot they are playing Arians.
No way of quantifying this, but personally I've always though t QB play is responsible for about 20 percent of what it takes to win and lose. I think the percentage of the salary cap the top guys make reflects that. It's obviously the most important spot on the field, but everything is so reliant on everything that goes on around you that it drives me nuts that everything always gets attributed to the QB. Brady is still a top 12ish QB, but the Bucs are a better team and playing their best football right now. Is Rodgers supposed to play defense too? The two biggest plays of the game had nothing to do with Rodgers, the play before half, and the fumble coming out of the half.
It's seriously driving me nuts here that Brady is getting all this credit for what is going on around him. I live here and its unbearable and has been since they signed him. But lots of QBs are doing what he's doing with this team. Their biggest issue last year was Jameis decision making. Arians wanted to literally strangle him on a weekly basis, never seen a coach so fed up with a QB before.
This Bucs team is stacked, monster front 7, great line, great skill players. Glad the world is getting aquaninted with Scotty Miller, he's one of the best-unheralded guys in the game. Of course lots of decisions to make this offseason and they are going to have key guys they need to let walk. Shaq Barret is one guy I think we should be looking at, type of edge that has a game that ages very well. Very headsy player as well.
Simple, and not a knock, very few special QB's have.
Just facts. Maybe next year is Rodgers' year.
Rodgers is an amazing QB and a first ballot lock. His regular season passing statistics are insanely good when you look at comp %, td%, int %, TD/Int ratio, YPA, YPC, QB rating.
Guess what? His playoff passing statistics basically mirror his regular seasons numbers. And he has started 20 playoff games so there is plenty of data to make the comparison meaningful.
Is it just possible, Rodgers is demonstrating what he needs to in order to get his squad more titles, but the rest of his squads are having a hard time demonstrating they can keep up?
I think yesterday might have been an example.
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First ballot lock,but what is so complex about this? He just has not demonstrated he can QB his squad to two titles.
Simple, and not a knock, very few special QB's have.
Just facts. Maybe next year is Rodgers' year.
Rodgers is an amazing QB and a first ballot lock. His regular season passing statistics are insanely good when you look at comp %, td%, int %, TD/Int ratio, YPA, YPC, QB rating.
Guess what? His playoff passing statistics basically mirror his regular seasons numbers. And he has started 20 playoff games so there is plenty of data to make the comparison meaningful.
Is it just possible, Rodgers is demonstrating what he needs to in order to get his squad more titles, but the rest of his squads are having a hard time demonstrating they can keep up?
I think yesterday might have been an example.
Decided to log in as Googs today, instead of LBH15? Or going to go back and forth?
Rodgers and the offense didnt capitalize off any of it. That's on him. Granted the line was missing Bakhtiari, but they still had excellent lineman in there. Tampa did well on the rush and Green Bay didn't make the proper adjustments. The miss by Rodgers/Adams late was so big. It resulted in the ensuing FG which has been talked about ad-nausuem.
I disagree that Jones would be blamed for the loss if every other event unfolded identically. You think posting 33-48 for 3 TDs and 346 yards would put the bullseye on him? I know everyone can use hypotheticals, but an argument shouldn't hinge on a hypothetical of that extreme.
Let's not act like he's earned a benefit of the doubt, let alone a billionth of the credit that Rodgers has earned.
When Jones plays like Rodgers he'll be treated like Rodgers.
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if that had been the Giants yesterday, the BBI bullseye would be squarely on the QB's back.
I disagree that Jones would be blamed for the loss if every other event unfolded identically. You think posting 33-48 for 3 TDs and 346 yards would put the bullseye on him? I know everyone can use hypotheticals, but an argument shouldn't hinge on a hypothetical of that extreme.
This isn't about Jones. It is about the narrative of what Elite QB's are or aren't, that has been beaten to death on this site for over a decade.
That's fine if you want to lay that amount of blame on QB play. Just do it consistently and admit Rodgers had his chances yesterday and blew it. Admit that Rodgers, for whatever reason, is 1-4 in Championship games and can't seem to get over the hump. If that's what you would do to other QB's, then why should Rodgers get a pass?
Just make sure the same rules are applied to everybody.
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if that had been the Giants yesterday, the BBI bullseye would be squarely on the QB's back.
I disagree that Jones would be blamed for the loss if every other event unfolded identically. You think posting 33-48 for 3 TDs and 346 yards would put the bullseye on him? I know everyone can use hypotheticals, but an argument shouldn't hinge on a hypothetical of that extreme.
Well, easy does it there. Clearly he would be blamed by some, although that would be a flawed view and likely not too widespread. Much like the above flawed hypothetical thinking.
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In comment 15133792 Britt in VA said:
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if that had been the Giants yesterday, the BBI bullseye would be squarely on the QB's back.
I disagree that Jones would be blamed for the loss if every other event unfolded identically. You think posting 33-48 for 3 TDs and 346 yards would put the bullseye on him? I know everyone can use hypotheticals, but an argument shouldn't hinge on a hypothetical of that extreme.
This isn't about Jones. It is about the narrative of what Elite QB's are or aren't, that has been beaten to death on this site for over a decade.
That's fine if you want to lay that amount of blame on QB play. Just do it consistently and admit Rodgers had his chances yesterday and blew it. Admit that Rodgers, for whatever reason, is 1-4 in Championship games and can't seem to get over the hump. If that's what you would do to other QB's, then why should Rodgers get a pass?
Just make sure the same rules are applied to everybody.
The same rules are applied for everybody. No one's been treated unfairly - certainly not any Giant QBs.
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In comment 15133792 Britt in VA said:
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if that had been the Giants yesterday, the BBI bullseye would be squarely on the QB's back.
I disagree that Jones would be blamed for the loss if every other event unfolded identically. You think posting 33-48 for 3 TDs and 346 yards would put the bullseye on him? I know everyone can use hypotheticals, but an argument shouldn't hinge on a hypothetical of that extreme.
Well, easy does it there. Clearly he would be blamed by some, although that would be a flawed view and likely not too widespread. Much like the above flawed hypothetical thinking.
Well sure, there are always outliers. There are always going to be people as antagonistic as Saquons26 on here putting forth arguments like that. But would a credible consensus form? I really doubt it.
If his ceiling is low as a passer, and he's going to have to rely on his legs to make plays to be successful, is he really any different in longevity than a running back?
Tough decisions upcoming for Baltimore.
This handle is all I have and need. Think about who you argue with a lot though, its probably a good many...
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One handle does the drive by, while the more recently reinstated handle is a little more even keeled in the approach. This could work well for you.
This handle is all I have and need. Think about who you argue with a lot though, its probably a good many...
It's typically the same five people. Six if you count your other handle.