Giants vs Bucs 2020 ...

They must eliminate their weakest links....I have no doubt another solid off-season....can add but subtraction.

I can think of 5 to 6 players I do not want to ever see again taking offensive and defensive snaps. Flemmings, Downs/Mayo, Lewis, etc....replace them. Find better WRs and corners.

....with steady improvement from some of the young guys.

They can win... more then most would expect

They beat the Chiefs once and came close to doing so twice! That team is clearly SB bound next year.

That there were not many teams that were that impressive or that I would have been very scared for the Giants to play. I actually think we could have had a chance against any of the NFC teams--don't think we could have stung together enough wins in a row in the playoffs.

I think there is the NFC, the AFC and then the Chiefs. If they keep drafting well, everyone is in trouble. I don't see how they fall off anytime soon. Mahomnes is the only QB that truly scares me in the NFL. They have a quick scoring offense with a pass rush.

Despite being in the SB I'm not that impressed by TB. We aren't the only team that came close. They should have lost to Minny and Atlanta. Gmen, WFT, and the bolts gave them scares. None of those teams are good. As a whole, I think we are trending in the right direction, but I don't know what to take from the Bucs game other than Jones having a really bad day

it's almost like watching the story of Daniel Jones in one game.

Moves the ball effectively - spreading it around -Two brutal picks - one amazing throw to Tate...ball in his hands to tie the game - came up empty.

Is taking the term “homerism” to another level. How far away we are is a subjective opinion for posters here. I think we are significantly away from having a quality playoff roster. I’ll go even further, when preseason stuff starts circulating this summer, I’m guessing you won’t see one prediction putting the NYG in the playoffs. There is still a lot of work to do here. And even if Dave has a grand slam offseason, it’s probably still not enough.

In comment 15133652 The_Boss said:

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Is taking the term “homerism” to another level. How far away we are is a subjective opinion for posters here. I think we are significantly away from having a quality playoff roster. I’ll go even further, when preseason stuff starts circulating this summer, I’m guessing you won’t see one prediction putting the NYG in the playoffs. There is still a lot of work to do here. And even if Dave has a grand slam offseason, it’s probably still not enough.

You are overrating the division.

Or else the Raiders - who beat the Chiefs this year - would be close to competing for a Superbowl.

They aren't.

Week to week match-ups tell you something. How a team performs over the season tells you much more.

In comment 15133654 Sean said:

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In comment 15133652 The_Boss said: Quote: Is taking the term “homerism” to another level. How far away we are is a subjective opinion for posters here. I think we are significantly away from having a quality playoff roster. I’ll go even further, when preseason stuff starts circulating this summer, I’m guessing you won’t see one prediction putting the NYG in the playoffs. There is still a lot of work to do here. And even if Dave has a grand slam offseason, it’s probably still not enough. You are overrating the division.

The division isn’t good I get it. But a healthy Dallas next year is likely better than whatever the NYG look like come week 1. And, assuming they upgrade the QB position, Washington is probably a hair better than us too. My guess is prognosticators will bet on health and overwhelming lean Dallas come August.

A single game sample is a poor method of evaluation. Tampa lost to the Bears this year - does that mean Chicago is an offseason away from being legitimate contenders, or was it just a single game in a 16-game season that doesn't signify anything long term?

Evaluate the state of a franchise on the basis of a single game. Strange things happen in the NFL every week. The Giants simply do not have the talent level of the Bucs at this point, especially on the offensive side of the ball. We hear these declarations every offseason, and every season we see just how far away the Giants are from truly competing for another Superbowl berth.

Things change so much throughout the season that comparing early season games is a futile exercise. I think both the Giants and the Bucs are better now than then. And how close we are is a different thing altogether.

Because of poor high draft selections like Engram, Barkley, Hernandez, and Baker. I could even go further back if i wanted to.

We need better scouts who know their stuff to give our management the wisdom to better choose.

versus then when they played (down to the) Giants (level in that single game). Bucs began to put it together during the second half of the season.

They're not a great team, but you don't need to be in order to win a Super Bowl in the modern NFL.

we win that game. Oh well. Bucs are better now, but that game also told me that we are *hopefully* closer to a playoff run than some think.

has little to do with the Giants season on the whole. They were 6-10. Think they're really close to a Super Bowl birth? Stop it, and take off the blue-colored glasses.

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That game has little to do with the Giants season on the whole. They were 6-10. Think they're really close to a Super Bowl birth? Stop it, and take off the blue-colored glasses

I disagree -- The refs PICKED UP the PI flag after this long discussion which cost Giants the game
if Giants win that game they have a different season .

6-10 is 6-10, and the roster is an untalented mess.

In comment 15133853 JonC said:

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6-10 is 6-10, and the roster is an untalented mess.

Jon, your ability to give excuses for other teams, but not the Giants, is top notch lately

In comment 15133834 giantfan2000 said:

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Quote: That game has little to do with the Giants season on the whole. They were 6-10. Think they're really close to a Super Bowl birth? Stop it, and take off the blue-colored glasses I disagree -- The refs PICKED UP the PI flag after this long discussion which cost Giants the game if Giants win that game they have a different season .

First of all, it cost them a second chance to TIE the game. There's no guarantee they would have scored on that attempt, and even if they had, with 28 seconds left TB had 3 timeouts. So, no guarantee of overtime. The odds of winning the game at that point would still have been less than 50/50.

Secondly, if "Franchise QB" Daniel Jones makes the throw accurately and on time, it's a moot point.

"close to a Super Bowl birth" i said a playoff run. And yeah, i think they are. We gave some of the best teams in football this year a run for their money with no weapons and below average QB play. Sue me if i think we are closer than some expect.

In comment 15133870 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 15133853 JonC said: Quote: 6-10 is 6-10, and the roster is an untalented mess. Jon, your ability to give excuses for other teams, but not the Giants, is top notch lately

Point out one example and I'll respond, don't try and whistle past the graveyard with me.

this year where if we had Barkley, another weapon, and good QB play, we win easily.

"blah blah blah blah we still lost!" ok....it's just my opinion.

you literally just said "Tampa was a worse team when they played us." No they weren't. They had just destroyed the Packers and Raiders back to back. They were playing well. They were the same team as they are now. You are playing revisionist history to make it seem like the Giants somehow didn't deserve to be in that game.

when the Giants play well and lose, you guys think we didn't deserve to be in the game. When the Giants win, you say well the other team had an off game or the other team sucks.

Bottom line is, Giants won 6 games. They were close in some others, against good teams. The team had a much different feel than the previous 2 seasons. Sorry for being optimistic and not a miserable SOB about the team. I like where we are headed. Add some talent in the draft and FA and we will be on our way, IMO.

Saying things like "we have no talent" doesn't make it true.

Tampa is playing much better football now than they were when they played the Giants. They're confident, they adjusted the offensive scheme, and they're playing much better football. They also have Tom Brady who's a playoff sniper like no other, let's face it. They're a Super Bowl team NOW. Giants went in the other direction after winning in Seattle. They had their opening, and it was a giant no show. Perhaps 2021 will see them prove me wrong, I welcome it!

The Giants deserved to be in that game, but it doesn't then make the logic leap they're close to make a playoff run valid. They trended in the opposite direction and still have a roster in need of many, many parts. Probably four starters on each side of the LOS before they're a contender. Those will be proven out as facts, for my money. Giants have had and STILL have a handful of backups starting when they shouldn't. Fill those holes, establish a winning record, push for a playoff spot, and then we're in business.

I'm not miserable, and I don't build my football posts based on emotion or Giants fandom. I'm realistic based on what the Giants show me, and then I go from there. NYG success doesn't determine any other happiness in my life.

"when the Giants play well and lose, you guys think we didn't deserve to be in the game. When the Giants win, you say well the other team had an off game or the other team sucks."

You're conflating me with a different faction here.

ok, i guess agree to disagree on the Bucs...I haven't seen anything from them in the playoffs that make them appear to be much much better than what they were. Again - a few games before our game, they played lights out against the Pack, they dominated them 38-10. But...that's neither here nor there.

I also don't think the Bucs played that well yesterday.

I expected them to win yesterday, Brady's the playoffs X-factor. Despite his INTs trying to put the game away, he made a number of perfect throws and some were dropped. Mike Evans had a few big negative plays out there. That's the biggest deviation point right now for the Giants, the QB position and the passing game.

Giants scored about 15 ppg down the stretch when it mattered most. Trajectory is important to the discussion, even moreso than the game between Bucs/Giants, imv.

Agree to disagree.

In comment 15133644 Dnew15 said:

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..ball in his hands to tie the game - came up empty.

Were you describing Rodgers yesterday?

I guess an example for me with some posters here...the Rodgers play where he could have possibly run it in (or at least ran it for 4-5 yards)....that play if it were the Giants...Jones gets blamed for that, and probably takes the blame for the loss. Such as the Rams game this year, he threw that pick at the end of the game and lots of posters simply just blamed him for the loss.

Well - when Rodgers doesn't make that play, everyone says ah its coaching, its a team game etc.

It's so much easier for BBI to lay the blame on the Giants QB, but then when it comes to other teams, they seem to take the glasses off and say ah its a team game.

and it doesn't make sense to conflate them with posters who know what they're looking at. Like any walk of life, some people look for a quick and easy way to place blame. All you can do is try to address them directly and spread some knowledge.

It was a bad play by Rodgers, but not the reason they lost the game. I put thoughts in the Rodgers thread. King & Jones were big reasons they fell into a 28-10 hole in the first place. The Packers collectively closed both halves in poor fashion, LaFleur included.

i think its the mind set with the Packers that lost them that game. They had to attack, attack, attack the whole game. That's what Chiefs do, they never let up. Packers were plodding through, even when they were done. They were still running up the middle down 8 in the 4th, etc. It just didn't make sense to me, in a win or go home atmosphere. I think the decision to kick the field goal, while def is not the reason they lost, is the overall mindset that lost them the game.

i meant

and so does Rodgers ...

In comment 15133947 EricJ said:

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In comment 15133644 Dnew15 said: Quote: ..ball in his hands to tie the game - came up empty. Were you describing Rodgers yesterday?

Perhaps his left hand was a bit heavy with the weight of the SB ring he already has prevented him from making that throw.

the giants are much closer to being the worst team in the league than they are the best team in the league

they played the bucs before the bucs offense clicked. brady didn't really click until the atlanta game late in the season

In comment 15133870 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 15133853 JonC said: Quote: 6-10 is 6-10, and the roster is an untalented mess. Jon, your ability to give excuses for other teams, but not the Giants, is top notch lately

Are you out of your damn mind? If you were smart, you would listen when this man talks football. 6-10 and 15-33 over 3 years. Trying to use one outlier game to justify anything makes you look ridiculous or high.

there is a 100% chance that one of these two teams will win.

1. The team stumbled badly out of the gate; they were thoroughly out-matched vs the Steelers and the 49ers. Jones was in a deep funk.

2. They did almost beat the Bucs, Bears and the Rams (who made the play-offs)

3. They righted the ship and were on a roll until Jones got hurt (he was never himself post injury)

I look at that Bucs game in terms of both the positives (Jones started to make progress, Gallman emerged, the defense started to come together.

The negatives - We couldn't get to Tom Brady, he had way too much time to pick us apart; Slayton wasn't himself (I think he was battling a nagging injury); we had two slot receivers trying to impersonate a wide, (opposite Slayton); the O-line was struggling mightily (partly because of the coaching turmoil)

Concerns - We have two massive holes - Edge and Wide Receiver and one big one, Corner opposite Bradburry. Need to stabilize our O-line coaching situation.

Positives - With the right support around him, he can be just as good as the Bill's Josh Allen; Barkley's coming back; the defense will be better under Graham; Judge is solid.

We're not that far from being legit.

In comment 15134279 GiantsFan84 said:

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the giants are much closer to being the worst team in the league than they are the best team in the league they played the bucs before the bucs offense clicked. brady didn't really click until the atlanta game late in the season

Well, since we are bringing facts into the argument, that’s bullshit. The Bucs scored 38 and 45 points in the two games they played directly before the Giants game. Nice try though.