we need to either draft an RB who we think can start in the NFL or sign a FA who can or has started. It probably depends on the health of Barkley but I have some concerns about the current stable if he goes down again with an extended injury.
how was a huge loss. hopefully he returns 100% healthy and on time
in fairness, he has to block better in pass pro. Tiki, Jacobs and Bradshaw did it, he can too.
now that the run blocking has improved to a respectable level with Thomas, Lemieux and Gates leading the way, I want to see less Barry Sanders dancing and more Walter Payton-like running. Takes what's there first, then make moves. Run over CBs and Ss instead trying to jump over them. Get the sure 3 yds on 3rd and 2, don't lose 5 looking for the home run. Be a great blocker when it's called for. That's winning football
am becoming increasingly convinced that Gallman won’t return next season. As you note, the Giants only turned to Gallman after Freeman was injured. And even then Gallman carried “the ball more than 12 times in a game just four times and more than 18 times just once.” Gallman runs hard and has some wiggle, but lacks explosion. I thought his passing blocking was fine overall, but he did miss some blocks, and so I understand why others are more critical of him in that regard.
Gallman definitely belongs in the league. He’s a capable backup. But my guess is that the Giants will look for a cheaper developmental player in the draft with a potentially higher upside. That is especially true because of a declining salary cap and our enormous needs.
I would not resign Morris or Lewis. That leaves just Barkley, who is coming back from an ACL. I have already said that we need to cut, not resign, or trade most of our WRs and TEs. RB is no different. Having to do that for all three skill position groups shows how bad the Giants are offensively.
I felt like there were several runs where Gallman busted through the OL matchup with a S or LB one-on-one in the open field and he literally ALWAYS got tackled. SB is going to make that guy miss 9 out of 10 times.
WIth a healthy SB, and improving OL, and a healthy DJ - I feel like the Giants have a chance to be an elite RPO type offense next year. I think this is way forward with DJ as a the QB.
and after nearly a full season of him(ok maybe 8-10 games) you can see that his blocking (along with almost ALL of our other RB's including Barkley) blitz pickup or pass blocking leaves a lot to be desired. May seem minor, but when you have to sub in a back for ANY reason its a tell for the defense. Don't give them that reason. And as stated above when our RB's(not just Barkley) decide to hit the hole hard, taking a 3 to 4 yard gain just changes the offense. They don't need to go for the 'homerun' every time they touch the ball. If they keep getting the hard 2 or 3 yard gains, those homeruns tend to pop up later in the game.
Is better (and much safer) than using him in Blitz pickup. He has to take at least one potential Blitzer with him and even if he's not a double coverage he's a threat for the homerun from a simple swing route.
be yelling to run the ball. Looking at the playoff teams and games this year...in total there were 2 player to rush for over a 100 yrds in a game - for the entire playoffs! ONly one was a RB (Cam Akers) - the other was Lamar Jackson.
The teams that got to the playoffs by running all the ball - the Raves (1st run offense/last in passing offense), the Titans (2nd run/23rd pass), the Browns (3rd rush/24th pass) all lost to teams that can chuck it - the Chiefs, the Bills, the Bucs, the Pack (which is really the only team that could do both).
I guess I"m old school and I just want the 3 yards and a cloud of dust to come back :)
I want folks to focus on like a laser beam is the win-loss record when the Giants run for over 100 yards.
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
They way they are currently built does result in more wins when they can run successfully. Passing more successfully though, or at least better balance, will ultimately lead to more consistent winning.
I want folks to focus on like a laser beam is the win-loss record when the Giants run for over 100 yards.
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
This is and interesting stat and I am certain defensive coordinators know it too. However, this stat has some problems in the fact that when you are winning a game you run more. I think there have been some studies on this. Daniel Jones has to be able to win the game when the defense puts it all on him. Run blitz has been very effective against SB, I expect plenty of it next year when he returns.
I want folks to focus on like a laser beam is the win-loss record when the Giants run for over 100 yards.
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
The Giants had a few games where the offensive line was dominant run blocking. Should be fun to watch when Barkley comes back. Gates with a year of experience under his belt, Thomas Graded top 5 (even after a auspicious start) and Hernandez top 2 in ESPNs run blocking analytics. I think COVID really sapped Hernandez, something happened there with his playing time. It's unfortunate we didn't have a back to take advantage of it and Freeman getting hurt sucked. He definitely leaves big runs out there on field due to his style (cuts inside too often), but he always finishes for a few extra.
despite his talent and potential, I don't see how how sign Barkley to a second contract unless it's all based on incentives. Which he probably wouldn't go for. His injury history is too concerning
I view RB's in terms of how effectively they contribute . . . .
to winning games. Obviously, an OL that is effective at run blocking will make any and all RB's more effective. While different teams with effective running games that help generate wins take somewhat different approaches, most, if not all, feature a rotation of RB's with different primary attributes, and use each situationally.
I.e., a RB that generates gaudy stats MAY not contribute as much to winning games as a RB of lesser overall ability that has a particular skill of high order to do a specific job that keeps the offense on the field and moving forward. Such as the ability to routinely pickup 3rd down short yardage, or punch it in near the goal line. I.e., consistently making the plays that are there to be made. I.e., doing their job.
For years I've wanted a banger among the Giants' RB rotation. This draft prospect has caught my eye as a candidate for that role. But he can also block, catch and make chunk plays.
but ugly picture of the NY Giant offense. There is so little to rely upon from the WR, TE and RB units in terms of impactful playmakers. And when you consider Saquon Barkley will be rehabbing in 2021, it becomes daunting to consider the amount of investment that is needed to catch up to the legitimate playoff caliber teams in the league.
The Giants have to clear cap space and be smart spenders in free agency because they need too many pieces to assume this can all come from the Draft in even two more offseasons. Offense probably needs 4-5 new starters.
Running back should be the last thing to concern themselves with though as there are typically good bargains after the flurry of activity has calmed down. Would try an add a tailback in the draft at some point to create some hedge on what ultimately happens with Barkley at the end of this year.
RE: These positional reviews really have painted the true
but ugly picture of the NY Giant offense. There is so little to rely upon from the WR, TE and RB units in terms of impactful playmakers. And when you consider Saquon Barkley will be rehabbing in 2021, it becomes daunting to consider the amount of investment that is needed to catch up to the legitimate playoff caliber teams in the league.
The Giants have to clear cap space and be smart spenders in free agency because they need too many pieces to assume this can all come from the Draft in even two more offseasons. Offense probably needs 4-5 new starters.
Running back should be the last thing to concern themselves with though as there are typically good bargains after the flurry of activity has calmed down. Would try an add a tailback in the draft at some point to create some hedge on what ultimately happens with Barkley at the end of this year.
This is what I've been trying to convey all year. Sy'56 also touched upon it finally at the end of the year too. The skill position talent surrounding Daniel Jones once Saquon went down was abysmal. The one thing I really got wrong this year was I didn't see the wide receivers failing as completely as they did. Tate really fell off a cliff. And Darius Slayton played nowhere near as well as he did as a rookie (did Saquon's presence open things up for him in 2019?).
You'd be hard pressed to come up with a worse total group at RB/WR/TE than the Giants in 2020.
Watching him at UVA, I thought he would be a solid 3rd down back in the NFL. Had some good years for the Bears in that role. Would much rather see him in that role than Lewis.
Eric nailed it. We had an abysmal group, especially after SB went down. I'm sure Judge and DG are well aware of this. I expect us to invest heavily in WR, RB and TE in FA and the draft. We can't fairly judge Jones until we put a decent cast of skill players around him. IMO, once we do, he will perform at a high level.
Agree. The WR unit probably needed a body added last offseason but I don’t recall who might have been a decent free agent target. It was a deep draft though that was ignored in favor of much needed offensive line help.
Cannot ignore receiving targets this offseason though as Gettleman will have to rebuild TE group as well. Engram needs a change in scenery too so there is much to accomplish.
it's all Daniel Jones fault per the usual suspects here ;-)
20 yr vet Tom Brady "suffers drops" in the 1st half. 2 yr pro Daniel Jones fails to make his rotten WRs and game plans better.
Victor that cuts both ways. Jones has to do a better job all around with his passing, but I agree that the guys in his huddle don’t add enough pop. Watching these playoff games though is an eye opener as to the number of impact plays some of these teams enjoy. Giants need pop.
The icing is easy once you have the cake. We built, at long last, a fine cake or Foundation last year.
In my mind, Thomas and Gates project as Pro Bowl types for the next decade. Hernandez and Ziegler a very strong core.
I think something almost remarkable happened. They seem to get better sometimes during the game and certainly did from week to week.
It was The Perfect Storm and we weathered it, went 5 + 3 at the end.
No spring training hurt the Giants more than anyone else, not only because they had new coaching and systems, but they had brand new players playing out of position and with each other for the first time.
Then they lose Berkeley who made everyone on the offence better.
Evan surprisingly regressed.
I think this offense might beonly one player away.
I think right tackle will take care of itself,
I think Darius Slayton and Evan can be real contributors when they're not asked to be the straw that stirs the drink.
Barclay's return, a fine offensive line marinating, Daniel Jones third year ( as a reference and context maker, I'm reminded that Josh Allen lead the league in inaccuracy in his second year), better years from Evan and Darius, a competent tight end in free agency and one dynamic field stretching wide receiver.
Peart perhaps a force....stir the above with good coaching and watch out World ..The G Men are back!
... but the results from yesterday do say something about today’s NFL. Total RB yardage from both KC and TB — in cold weather games — was less than 70 yards. And that’s not likely to change in the Super Bowl.
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
... but the results from yesterday do say something about today’s NFL. Total RB yardage from both KC and TB — in cold weather games — was less than 70 yards. And that’s not likely to change in the Super Bowl.
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
I definitely think NFL teams can win games and be competitive with the run game being their strength on offense...and right now - I'd take that for sure :)
BUT at the end of the day - can you win a championship...I think the answer right now with the way the NFL is currently structured...the answer is no.
The yards the Giants generated on the ground in the 3 losses that effectively ended their season.
0, 3, 3
The number of 1st half points scored in those same three losses you mention above that effectively ended their season.
No offensive playmakers means few big plays and very few points. Fewer points mean falling behind moreso in games and having to abandon the run sooner in favor of more pass attempts to try and catch up.
Getting big play guy Saquon Barkley back on field will help but its obvious they need much more than just him. As we have seen the better teams take him out of games and leave the Giants with basically the same situation.
I definitely think NFL teams can win games and be competitive with the run game being their strength on offense...and right now - I'd take that for sure :)
BUT at the end of the day - can you win a championship...I think the answer right now with the way the NFL is currently structured...the answer is no.
Which is exactly why the Barkley injury hurt so much. He was basically our best receiving option when healthy. Also if teams wanted to stop it and dedicate a LB or CB solely to watch Barkley coming out of the backfield, that led to more space and Man-to-man coverage for the WR's. This may play into why Slayton fell off the cliff this year
I definitely think NFL teams can win games and be competitive with the run game being their strength on offense...and right now - I'd take that for sure :)
BUT at the end of the day - can you win a championship...I think the answer right now with the way the NFL is currently structured...the answer is no.
Which is exactly why the Barkley injury hurt so much. He was basically our best receiving option when healthy. Also if teams wanted to stop it and dedicate a LB or CB solely to watch Barkley coming out of the backfield, that led to more space and Man-to-man coverage for the WR's. This may play into why Slayton fell off the cliff this year
Definite cascading effects from losing Saquon. His rookie season — 23ppg, his second season 21 ppg, and his 2 game third season ... 17 ppg.
... but the results from yesterday do say something about today’s NFL. Total RB yardage from both KC and TB — in cold weather games — was less than 70 yards. And that’s not likely to change in the Super Bowl.
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
I would agree entirely that gaudy running stats don't necessarily equal victories, but the running game is often still essential to the outcome of the game. I watched the game between the Tampa and the Packers, and Fournette's running was hardcore, he made the plays that had to be made. So that while he only rushed 12 times for 55 yards, it was often those plays that kept Tampa on the Field for Brady to be able to makes the throws that won the game.
... but the results from yesterday do say something about today’s NFL. Total RB yardage from both KC and TB — in cold weather games — was less than 70 yards. And that’s not likely to change in the Super Bowl.
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
I would agree entirely that gaudy running stats don't necessarily equal victories, but the running game is often still essential to the outcome of the game. I watched the game between the Tampa and the Packers, and Fournette's running was hardcore, he made the plays that had to be made. So that while he only rushed 12 times for 55 yards, it was often those plays that kept Tampa on the Field for Brady to be able to makes the throws that won the game.
Great point. Fournette was a beast, especially on that spinning run down the goal line. And as another poster noted, the top 12 teams all tend to have strong running games. With any luck we’ll have a healthy top 5 RB back by September, and hopefully some help for our WR core.
now that the run blocking has improved to a respectable level with Thomas, Lemieux and Gates leading the way, I want to see less Barry Sanders dancing and more Walter Payton-like running. Takes what's there first, then make moves. Run over CBs and Ss instead trying to jump over them. Get the sure 3 yds on 3rd and 2, don't lose 5 looking for the home run. Be a great blocker when it's called for. That's winning football
Gallman definitely belongs in the league. He’s a capable backup. But my guess is that the Giants will look for a cheaper developmental player in the draft with a potentially higher upside. That is especially true because of a declining salary cap and our enormous needs.
I would not resign Morris or Lewis. That leaves just Barkley, who is coming back from an ACL. I have already said that we need to cut, not resign, or trade most of our WRs and TEs. RB is no different. Having to do that for all three skill position groups shows how bad the Giants are offensively.
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
yup.
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
I thought I was the only old guy yelling at the TV for the Giants to run the ball!
I felt like there were several runs where Gallman busted through the OL matchup with a S or LB one-on-one in the open field and he literally ALWAYS got tackled. SB is going to make that guy miss 9 out of 10 times.
WIth a healthy SB, and improving OL, and a healthy DJ - I feel like the Giants have a chance to be an elite RPO type offense next year. I think this is way forward with DJ as a the QB.
Quote:
I want folks to focus on like a laser beam is the win-loss record when the Giants run for over 100 yards.
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
I thought I was the only old guy yelling at the TV for the Giants to run the ball!
there were plenty of us! and some young uns too, my 22 yr old son included.
The teams that got to the playoffs by running all the ball - the Raves (1st run offense/last in passing offense), the Titans (2nd run/23rd pass), the Browns (3rd rush/24th pass) all lost to teams that can chuck it - the Chiefs, the Bills, the Bucs, the Pack (which is really the only team that could do both).
I guess I"m old school and I just want the 3 yards and a cloud of dust to come back :)
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
They way they are currently built does result in more wins when they can run successfully. Passing more successfully though, or at least better balance, will ultimately lead to more consistent winning.
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
When the OL played well, we ran for over 100 yards, and were 6-3 (should have been 7-2 if someone catches that pass).
The Giants had a few games where the offensive line was dominant run blocking. Should be fun to watch when Barkley comes back. Gates with a year of experience under his belt, Thomas Graded top 5 (even after a auspicious start) and Hernandez top 2 in ESPNs run blocking analytics. I think COVID really sapped Hernandez, something happened there with his playing time. It's unfortunate we didn't have a back to take advantage of it and Freeman getting hurt sucked. He definitely leaves big runs out there on field due to his style (cuts inside too often), but he always finishes for a few extra.
I.e., a RB that generates gaudy stats MAY not contribute as much to winning games as a RB of lesser overall ability that has a particular skill of high order to do a specific job that keeps the offense on the field and moving forward. Such as the ability to routinely pickup 3rd down short yardage, or punch it in near the goal line. I.e., consistently making the plays that are there to be made. I.e., doing their job.
For years I've wanted a banger among the Giants' RB rotation. This draft prospect has caught my eye as a candidate for that role. But he can also block, catch and make chunk plays.
Stevenson - ( New Window )
The Giants have to clear cap space and be smart spenders in free agency because they need too many pieces to assume this can all come from the Draft in even two more offseasons. Offense probably needs 4-5 new starters.
Running back should be the last thing to concern themselves with though as there are typically good bargains after the flurry of activity has calmed down. Would try an add a tailback in the draft at some point to create some hedge on what ultimately happens with Barkley at the end of this year.
The Giants have to clear cap space and be smart spenders in free agency because they need too many pieces to assume this can all come from the Draft in even two more offseasons. Offense probably needs 4-5 new starters.
Running back should be the last thing to concern themselves with though as there are typically good bargains after the flurry of activity has calmed down. Would try an add a tailback in the draft at some point to create some hedge on what ultimately happens with Barkley at the end of this year.
This is what I've been trying to convey all year. Sy'56 also touched upon it finally at the end of the year too. The skill position talent surrounding Daniel Jones once Saquon went down was abysmal. The one thing I really got wrong this year was I didn't see the wide receivers failing as completely as they did. Tate really fell off a cliff. And Darius Slayton played nowhere near as well as he did as a rookie (did Saquon's presence open things up for him in 2019?).
You'd be hard pressed to come up with a worse total group at RB/WR/TE than the Giants in 2020.
20 yr vet Tom Brady "suffers drops" in the 1st half. 2 yr pro Daniel Jones fails to make his rotten WRs and game plans better.
Cannot ignore receiving targets this offseason though as Gettleman will have to rebuild TE group as well. Engram needs a change in scenery too so there is much to accomplish.
20 yr vet Tom Brady "suffers drops" in the 1st half. 2 yr pro Daniel Jones fails to make his rotten WRs and game plans better.
Victor that cuts both ways. Jones has to do a better job all around with his passing, but I agree that the guys in his huddle don’t add enough pop. Watching these playoff games though is an eye opener as to the number of impact plays some of these teams enjoy. Giants need pop.
In my mind, Thomas and Gates project as Pro Bowl types for the next decade. Hernandez and Ziegler a very strong core.
I think something almost remarkable happened. They seem to get better sometimes during the game and certainly did from week to week.
It was The Perfect Storm and we weathered it, went 5 + 3 at the end.
No spring training hurt the Giants more than anyone else, not only because they had new coaching and systems, but they had brand new players playing out of position and with each other for the first time.
Then they lose Berkeley who made everyone on the offence better.
Evan surprisingly regressed.
I think this offense might beonly one player away.
I think right tackle will take care of itself,
I think Darius Slayton and Evan can be real contributors when they're not asked to be the straw that stirs the drink.
Barclay's return, a fine offensive line marinating, Daniel Jones third year ( as a reference and context maker, I'm reminded that Josh Allen lead the league in inaccuracy in his second year), better years from Evan and Darius, a competent tight end in free agency and one dynamic field stretching wide receiver.
Peart perhaps a force....stir the above with good coaching and watch out World ..The G Men are back!
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
Meant “or” you don’t have someone like Lamar.
The yards the Giants generated on the ground in the 3 losses that effectively ended their season.
Patriots, Vikings, & Eagles non-playoff teams
Patriots, Vikings, & Eagles non-playoff teams
I definitely think NFL teams can win games and be competitive with the run game being their strength on offense...and right now - I'd take that for sure :)
BUT at the end of the day - can you win a championship...I think the answer right now with the way the NFL is currently structured...the answer is no.
The yards the Giants generated on the ground in the 3 losses that effectively ended their season.
0, 3, 3
The number of 1st half points scored in those same three losses you mention above that effectively ended their season.
No offensive playmakers means few big plays and very few points. Fewer points mean falling behind moreso in games and having to abandon the run sooner in favor of more pass attempts to try and catch up.
Getting big play guy Saquon Barkley back on field will help but its obvious they need much more than just him. As we have seen the better teams take him out of games and leave the Giants with basically the same situation.
Quote:
Running QB teams Ravens, Cards, & Seahawks.
Patriots, Vikings, & Eagles non-playoff teams
I definitely think NFL teams can win games and be competitive with the run game being their strength on offense...and right now - I'd take that for sure :)
BUT at the end of the day - can you win a championship...I think the answer right now with the way the NFL is currently structured...the answer is no.
Which is exactly why the Barkley injury hurt so much. He was basically our best receiving option when healthy. Also if teams wanted to stop it and dedicate a LB or CB solely to watch Barkley coming out of the backfield, that led to more space and Man-to-man coverage for the WR's. This may play into why Slayton fell off the cliff this year
Quote:
In comment 15134551 bc4life said:
Quote:
Running QB teams Ravens, Cards, & Seahawks.
Patriots, Vikings, & Eagles non-playoff teams
I definitely think NFL teams can win games and be competitive with the run game being their strength on offense...and right now - I'd take that for sure :)
BUT at the end of the day - can you win a championship...I think the answer right now with the way the NFL is currently structured...the answer is no.
Which is exactly why the Barkley injury hurt so much. He was basically our best receiving option when healthy. Also if teams wanted to stop it and dedicate a LB or CB solely to watch Barkley coming out of the backfield, that led to more space and Man-to-man coverage for the WR's. This may play into why Slayton fell off the cliff this year
Definite cascading effects from losing Saquon. His rookie season — 23ppg, his second season 21 ppg, and his 2 game third season ... 17 ppg.
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
I would agree entirely that gaudy running stats don't necessarily equal victories, but the running game is often still essential to the outcome of the game. I watched the game between the Tampa and the Packers, and Fournette's running was hardcore, he made the plays that had to be made. So that while he only rushed 12 times for 55 yards, it was often those plays that kept Tampa on the Field for Brady to be able to makes the throws that won the game.
Quote:
... but the results from yesterday do say something about today’s NFL. Total RB yardage from both KC and TB — in cold weather games — was less than 70 yards. And that’s not likely to change in the Super Bowl.
Yes, it’s terrific having a great RB like Saquon (or D Henry or Zeke etc), but it’s truly a passing league. If your QB isn’t throwing for 300 plus every week, and don’t have someone like Lamar, you’re probably gonna get steamrolled.
I would agree entirely that gaudy running stats don't necessarily equal victories, but the running game is often still essential to the outcome of the game. I watched the game between the Tampa and the Packers, and Fournette's running was hardcore, he made the plays that had to be made. So that while he only rushed 12 times for 55 yards, it was often those plays that kept Tampa on the Field for Brady to be able to makes the throws that won the game.
Great point. Fournette was a beast, especially on that spinning run down the goal line. And as another poster noted, the top 12 teams all tend to have strong running games. With any luck we’ll have a healthy top 5 RB back by September, and hopefully some help for our WR core.