Watching Kelce do a number on the Bills made me think of the Giants drafting Pitts. Kelce looks like an oversized WR with good speed and good hands. He’s not in there to block but do what I imagine Reese thought Engram would do. Now, it helps that he has Mahomes throwing to him and Tyreek Hill and other world class type WRs running routes but Kelce always looks open, often wide open which Engram rarely seems to be. From what I’ve read about Pitts, he sounds like Kelce maybe a little bigger and a little faster. Now, a better version of Kelce, if that is what Pitts is, would probably not last until the 11th pick and I would not give up picks to move up. But, if he is there, .....?
My other thought on Pitts is this. The Giants need help at several positions in no special order including WRs, TE, OL, Edge, and 2nd CB. They could also use help at ILB and RB but these are lesser needs. It’s been said by draft types that the draft is very strong in WRs, DBs and OL and weak at Edge and TE. I don’t know much about the edge rushers only that none seem to be outstanding prospects. Pitts does seem to be. They have a better chance of filling the draft strong positions later in the draft so why not grab the outstanding prospect at a position of need. BPA=Need?
Over him. Power and feet. Height and length only issue playing tackle.
Over him. Power and feet. Height and length only issue playing tackle.
I agree. OL is a big need as well, but Pitts is an awesome player. I wouldn’t call a top receiving target a “toy” when the state of our receiving corps is where it is right now.
I know it's an exaggeration, but there are a lot of creative offensive play callers out there who really help their team out then when you add in studs like Hill and Kelce you get unstoppable offenses.
Right now the Giants don't have either
Quote:
Don’t discount a guy like slater. I’m very very high on him at 11. I’m telling you hes going to be a stud. All pro guard written all
Over him. Power and feet. Height and length only issue playing tackle.
I agree. OL is a big need as well, but Pitts is an awesome player. I wouldn’t call a top receiving target a “toy” when the state of our receiving corps is where it is right now.
He’s a toy. He isn’t a dominant blocker. If he was an all around beast. Then I agree he’s not a toy. When you question the guys blocking I don’t want him at 11. What good is a receiving target when we still can’t block at all. The interior of our line is not very good. Hernandez is a question mark to be retained. Zeitler has just this year left. Lemieux looked like hot garbage in pass pro but he’s young. We need a guard desperately. I draft slater plug him immediately at left guard next to Thomas and now you have a mauling left side of the line who can pass block.
Very rarely is taking a TE in rd good value...there's plenty of value later in the draft at that position.
Prefer a WR or a CB, at 11, they will have access to a high level player. Surtain vs Waddle vs Pitts? Pitts is last on that list for me.
I also think Engram is here one more year and I'm fine with that as he will be the 4th or 5th option on offense.
I don't think TE is happening this year, too many needs at WR, Edge, corner.
Pitts may end up being a great player, but if you have guys like Surtain, Parsons or Slater on the board, I don't see how you pass on them for a TE. There are other ways to get reliable receiving playmakers. Top shelf OL or defensive players are harder to come by.
It's been a long while since a rookie TE came in and made a big impact from the jump.
Take the best player available of the WR, ER, CB pool.
Testing Results
40-Yard Dash
4.70
Worst: 5.18Best TE-H: Tommy Tremble 4.63
20-Yard Shuttle
4.45
Worst: 4.76Best TE-H: David Priebe 4.20
Vertical Jump
31.3
Worst: 23.6Best TE-H: Charles Robinson 39.6
Power Throw
41.0
Worst: 32.0Best TE-H: Cameron Jurgens 43.0
espn - ( New Window )
You said 40 years right? I would take Bavaro over Winslow Jr. any day.
So would I, that top 10 included Winslow SR, not Jr. Winslow Sr is a HOF'er.
Quote:
Tony Gonzalez - 13th overall
Jason Witten - 3rd round 69th overall
Travis Kelce - 3rd round 63rd overall
Rob Gronkowski - 2nd round 42nd overall
Shannon Sharpe - 7th round 192nd overall
Antonio Gates - undrafted
Jimmy Graham - 3rd round 95th overall
Ben Coates - 5th round 124th overall
Ozzie Newsome - 1st round 23rd overall
Kellen Winslow Sr - 1st round 13th overall
The most apt comparisons to Pitts coming out of college indeed are two guys drafted damn near 11: Kellen Winslow Sr. and Tony Gonzales! Both of whom justified their high draft status... I also heard Pitts compared to Vernon Davis by an NFL scout, but Pitts is more smooth and shifty, if less of a straight line athlete. Pitts runs much better routes than Davis...
As for Gronk being drafted at 42 overall - yeah, because he was coming off a full year of not playing at all following major spinal surgery!
A fully healthy Gronk without a HUGE medical red flag would have been a top ten pick.
Whatever, don't stress yourself, Pitts will be off the board before 11 rolls around. Despite what my mock draft simulations are telling me right now.
This is the same hype I read about Ebron. I'm sure the Raiders felt the same way about Rickey Dudley, too. I'm sure the Bengals felt that way about Gresham.
What you need to consider is the hit rate on all these first rounders. It's not that there aren't good players out of that list of first rounders, because there are, but even among them there are plenty of positional counterparts around the league that are just as good drafted later. And the biggest success stories in that list are guys drafted at the end of round 1, not near the top.
Top of the 1st round is where you get your premium position players: QB, ER, DT, OT, CB, and WR. And if you deviate from that, which is fine, you better get someone who is not just good, but special. I don't think Pitts is special. Just a big target for the defense to hit in the middle of the field, like the earlier poster suggested. And Gonzalez and Winslow were great players, but there teams didn't win a lot, because the difference between a first round TE and a 4th round TE when it comes to wins and losses is scant.
Testing Results
40-Yard Dash
4.70
Worst: 5.18Best TE-H: Tommy Tremble 4.63
20-Yard Shuttle
4.45
Worst: 4.76Best TE-H: David Priebe 4.20
Vertical Jump
31.3
Worst: 23.6Best TE-H: Charles Robinson 39.6
Power Throw
41.0
Worst: 32.0Best TE-H: Cameron Jurgens 43.0
espn - ( New Window )
That was 3 years ago. I’m curious what his vertical is today. That and 3 come are going to be the most relevant to his game. On the field he had no problem going above everyone else to catch the ball. I’d like to see that In mid 30s. He’s already 6 6 with a longer wingspan for his frame. Shit if he were to jump 40 he’d be a lock for top 5.
Testing Results
40-Yard Dash
4.70
Worst: 5.18Best TE-H: Tommy Tremble 4.63
20-Yard Shuttle
4.45
Worst: 4.76Best TE-H: David Priebe 4.20
Vertical Jump
31.3
Worst: 23.6Best TE-H: Charles Robinson 39.6
Power Throw
41.0
Worst: 32.0Best TE-H: Cameron Jurgens 43.0
espn - ( New Window )
Tommy Tremble should definitely be a target. He wasnt used as much in ND's passing game because when they passed they were looking towards the receivers and Mayer primarily. The guy loves to block tho and he is very athletic.
P.S. Still would rather draft a Dynamic Edge.
Premium positions. Positions of need. The value should be there at both positions.
I dont see Pitts.
As for EDGE, I'm not sure the pick will be there at 11, and I'm not sure the new regime values a top flight ER the way that the previous regime did. Judge and Graham seem to be taking the Patriots approach to pass rush.
I think they will value CB more.
Unless Judge and Gettleman get fired before the draft the giants have a zero percent chance of taking a QB.
I know when and where Bavaro was drafted.
Where does he say the TEs had to be first round picks? His opening statement says "Top TEs in the last 40 years". Then the list he presents has 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th round picks.
What you need to consider is the hit rate on all these first rounders. It's not that there aren't good players out of that list of first rounders, because there are, but even among them there are plenty of positional counterparts around the league that are just as good drafted later>
First re Eric Ebron, when you look at his college stats on the face of them he and Pitts seem comparable for sure. High volume (for TEs) pass catchers that had terrific YPC for their positions - heck, they had very good YPC for WRs.
But its too bad other college stats from Ebron's time aren't readily available, like targets and catch rate, where Pitts is on another planet from Ebron, because Ebron doesn't have great hands.
Catching the ball, including catching the ball vs highly contested situations, is where Pitts really distinguishes himself as a true unicorn. That trait shows up in two stat categories, in both TDs scored and catch %.
Of course Pitts is two inches taller than Ebron, and we'll see some other physical traits emerge as the process continues, like arm length and hand size, but what matters is simple - he catches contested balls in small areas at a ridiculous level of proficiency.
Ebron is closer to Engram than he is to Pitts, and not just alphabetically.
The second flaw I see in your analysis is the historical data re high TE picks. All that goes out the damn window when one is evaluating an individual player, IMO.
And the Giants have erred plenty in that type of thinking IMO. As in, why they didn't select Aaron Donald over OBJ, likely because Donald was "too small" by the metrics the Giants traditionally value for DTs.
It's a flaw not to look at each player as a unique individual, first and foremost.
Anyway, thanks for the debate.
I was actually surprised at Plax's vertical. If Pitts can put up mid 30s I'm rushing to podium personally. I said this last month, but I felt like by the time the draft rolls around he's in the top 5 argument. That or he falls because of the history of tight ends there, and teams look back and wonder what the hell they were thinking. He isn't your typical tight end.
I'm not sure he lasts to us for the very simple I have to think NFL teams see what a subsitution nightware he is and how flexable he makes you on offense. With the new sub rules this is HIGHLY valuable.
Quote:
... who the Lions picked at No. 10 overall. Freakish measurables (Ebron ran a 4.50 at 252lbs), but basically a jumbo sized WR with only average blocking skills. But maybe Pitts is a better than that. I’m still hung up on scouting Trey Lance ... the riskiest and rawest possible pick, but I think we need a jolt of we’re ever gonna compete with the big boys.
Unless Judge and Gettleman get fired before the draft the giants have a zero percent chance of taking a QB.
I’m doing my best to not be one of those annoying posters who drone on about the same thing, over and over ... but man, I hope someone outside of the traditional Mara old school umbrella at least scouts Lance with an open mind. I’ll try to zip it for a few minutes now lol.
Premium positions. Positions of need. The value should be there at both positions.
I dont see Pitts.
As for EDGE, I'm not sure the pick will be there at 11, and I'm not sure the new regime values a top flight ER the way that the previous regime did. Judge and Graham seem to be taking the Patriots approach to pass rush.
I think they will value CB more.
Like a RB at number 2 overall? Stranger things have happened...
GTFO!!!
This football team NEEDS IMPACT PLAYERS.
KYLE PITTS, MICAH PARSONS, JAMAR CHASE, JAYLON WADDLE, DEVONTA SMITH, maybe that Rousseau kid.
Hell Penei Sewell!!!
Not "this position, that position."
Impact players. At least on defense, I have faith our coaches will figure out how to use him.
Maybe even on offense, once a semblance of OL competency is acheived...
Over him. Power and feet. Height and length only issue playing tackle.
Agreed RE: Slater but you gotta make sure he's not a Justin Pugh first. I haven't seen a snap from him. But that's what his scouting report is reading like. (Not athletic enough for T and not powerful enough to be a + Guard.)
p.s.--I loved Mark Bavaro, but the Niners won more games with Brent Jones than the Giants won with Bavaro.
p.s.--I loved Mark Bavaro, but the Niners won more games with Brent Jones than the Giants won with Bavaro.
Good point, Milton. I trust Judge with this one.
p.s.--I loved Mark Bavaro, but the Niners won more games with Brent Jones than the Giants won with Bavaro.
That's very well said. Even if I hate Brent Jones more than Fletch hated Tommy Lasorda.
Have seen a few write-ups and comments lately on him suggesting his blocking skills and techniques improved a good bit in 2020. Not certain if that is accurate, but if the Giants feel the same when they do their evaluations then Pitts' name should be BOLDED in that top tier and call his name out loud and clear on April 29th when they are on the clock.
Mis-match Chess piece - ( New Window )
Mis-match Chess piece - ( New Window )
Great find.