for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

John Madden thinks NFL teams should hire video game coaches

Giantsfan79 : 1/26/2021 8:35 am
Quote:
Madden told ESPN that if he were coaching today, he’d assign assistant coaches to play the Madden game in preparation for upcoming opponents.

“I would have a couple of young guys that are good, good Madden players, and hire them and put them on my staff,” Madden said. “And each week I would have them play our opponent. If the Raiders are playing Kansas City, I’d have one of them be the Raiders and one of them be Kansas City. And then I would run our players against their defenses and their defenses against our players. And I’d have them just check that out and then write up — this was good, this was bad, had trouble here and trouble there. I don’t know how much I would use it, but that’s what I would do.”

Link - ( New Window )
I know some will criticize this because it is more him  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2021 8:45 am : link
promoting his game but there could be value in this assuming the simulation/game is somewhat accurate. It shouldn't be implemented but if you can prove that there is value in it that would be something worth exploring.
No until madden imporves  
terz22 : 1/26/2021 8:48 am : link
the game. Madden is an absolute dumpster fire. It's not true simulation football, everything is dependent on animations. Just check out RyanMoody on youtube and you'll see how shitty a game Madden is.
RE: No until madden imporves  
Sean : 1/26/2021 8:50 am : link
In comment 15134566 terz22 said:
Quote:
the game. Madden is an absolute dumpster fire. It's not true simulation football, everything is dependent on animations. Just check out RyanMoody on youtube and you'll see how shitty a game Madden is.


Exclusive licensing deals have killed sports gaming.
RE: RE: No until madden imporves  
terz22 : 1/26/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15134568 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15134566 terz22 said:


Quote:


the game. Madden is an absolute dumpster fire. It's not true simulation football, everything is dependent on animations. Just check out RyanMoody on youtube and you'll see how shitty a game Madden is.



Exclusive licensing deals have killed sports gaming.


100%. Why improve your game when there really is no incentive to? Every year people buy it with real no improvements.
But..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/26/2021 8:52 am : link
what actual value can be gained by playing against a defense that isn't the actual defense of the team featuring players with attributes different than their real-life ones?

It isn't like there are tendencies like the ones that can be identified by watching film.

I'm struggling to understand what value can be derived from it.
terz  
mittenedman : 1/26/2021 8:53 am : link
Agreed 100%. Madden football game absolutely sucks now. Nothing even remotely fun about it.

The old versions of the game - going back to PS2 - were good. Boring beyond belief now.
If you had..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/26/2021 8:55 am : link
computer simulation that ran real-life defensive formations, you might be able to get a look at how that D would stack up against planned offensive plays, but Madden is so far away from that standard.

Even then, watching film and seeing tendencies replaces any benefit from the computer information.
RE: terz  
terz22 : 1/26/2021 8:56 am : link
In comment 15134575 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Agreed 100%. Madden football game absolutely sucks now. Nothing even remotely fun about it.

The old versions of the game - going back to PS2 - were good. Boring beyond belief now.


Bring back NFL2k!
From what..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/26/2021 9:01 am : link
I've heard, NFL teams aren't even interested in analytical data culled from Madden, so I'm not sure what value they'd get out of playing the game.

Of course, it is also a folly to try and pull analytic data from Madden too.
Madden better stop watching so much porn. He clearly needs the  
Victor in CT : 1/26/2021 9:04 am : link
blood flow going to his brain, not his prick.
.  
Banks : 1/26/2021 9:09 am : link
sadly, penn state's qb coach was doing this over a decade ago. No wonder Morelli sucked
If Madden or any other vid football games  
Section331 : 1/26/2021 9:13 am : link
were close enough a simulation of the actual game, this might make sense, but the games are so geared towards offense and scoring that it isn't a reasonable simulation. Not even close.
Might be a dated analogy  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/26/2021 9:16 am : link
But this reminds me of Days of Thunder when Robert Duvall asks Tom Cruise what he knows about stick car racing.

"Of course I watch on television. ESPN. The coverage is excellent, you'd be surprised at how much you can pick up."
....  
Toth029 : 1/26/2021 9:22 am : link
2k games suck, too. NBA ones are all about VC just like EA goes hard on Madden Ultimate Team.

Case of how dry and flat video game structure of today's sports media.

At least MLB The Show hasn't gone down the swamp, yet.
.  
GiantEgo : 1/26/2021 9:49 am : link
I wonder how much long they are going to name that game franchise "Madden". Younger folks must already be saying who's that?
Maybe  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/26/2021 9:55 am : link
the Packers and Bills should hire Madden gamers because even a 12 year old goes for it those situations when they kicked field goals.
I am sure  
jtfuoco : 1/26/2021 10:10 am : link
Madden does not play the game but is just taking this from what the developers tell him is going to be in the game every season. NFL2k5 was on track to be this type of game but of course was killed off by EA getting the licence.

You can make madden play more reaslistically but you have to mess with the sliders a ton but without the play editor who could never accomplish what madden is saying here but with millions of dollars being thrown around in the NFL you could put a development team together to create that type of game/simulation for coaches and players
Poor Madden  
widmerseyebrow : 1/26/2021 10:22 am : link
doesn't even know that his game has sucked for over 15 years now.
RE: RE: No until madden imporves  
widmerseyebrow : 1/26/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15134568 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15134566 terz22 said:


Quote:


the game. Madden is an absolute dumpster fire. It's not true simulation football, everything is dependent on animations. Just check out RyanMoody on youtube and you'll see how shitty a game Madden is.



Exclusive licensing deals have killed sports gaming.


Mam I miss playing some of those football gamea from the 90s. They weren't all great but they all had different features that were fun. Quarterback Club comes to mind.
My son's dream job...playing Madden for the Giants!  
George from PA : 1/26/2021 10:27 am : link
....that would be funny.
Are we sure...  
Ryan : 1/26/2021 10:33 am : link
...this wasn't Frank Caliendo that said this?
The only problem with doing this is the human factor  
montanagiant : 1/26/2021 11:06 am : link
Plus you would have to have weekly on-the-fly player updates. It would also have to tweaked to take into account weather factors, minor playable injuries, and COVID.

You can simulate games all day long on Madden without actual game time coaching so throwing in Humans would just skew the whole thing
Plus, add in the massive amount of data needed to be inputted  
montanagiant : 1/26/2021 11:21 am : link
To even be close to being a basic serviable program. Every single player would have to be tracked by their actions and reactions. You would have to track the schemes, coverage/routes, blocking, pass rush, blitzes, fakes, QB movement, Ball position on the field, time of the game, penalties, etc...etc.. And do that for every single play over the course of a season and then cross-reference it to all the other players.

It's not feasible.
RE: I know some will criticize this because it is more him  
allstarjim : 1/26/2021 11:31 am : link
In comment 15134564 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
promoting his game but there could be value in this assuming the simulation/game is somewhat accurate. It shouldn't be implemented but if you can prove that there is value in it that would be something worth exploring.


Robbie I don't know how many people know this but Madden is almost 85 years old. This sounds like a comment from a guy who's mentally losing his fastball more than promoting his game. I mean hell, I don't think he needs to do any more promoting. It's the most successful sports game franchise ever.

I just think he's getting senile and that's a sad thought.
I have been involved with high fidelity complex modeling...  
BamaBlue : 1/26/2021 11:47 am : link
for several decades. This is a ridiculous idea. It's one of those things that sounds like an innovative, out of the box idea, but is actually not practical.

The fidelity of the 'model' and the amount of variation doesn't come close to providing any actionable conclusions. You would have to run a significant (statistically significant) number of iterations with different variables to even develop a confidence interval. Just the weather variables alone would take many thousands of monte carlo runs...
RE: Plus, add in the massive amount of data needed to be inputted  
jtfuoco : 1/26/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15134746 montanagiant said:
Quote:
To even be close to being a basic serviable program. Every single player would have to be tracked by their actions and reactions. You would have to track the schemes, coverage/routes, blocking, pass rush, blitzes, fakes, QB movement, Ball position on the field, time of the game, penalties, etc...etc.. And do that for every single play over the course of a season and then cross-reference it to all the other players.

I think if the porgam would allow play editing and just focus on player traits it could be useful to help with develping a game plan or helping FAs that come in learn the playbook. Especially with limited practice time an assistant coach could run the plan through and see if any glaring holes are established and deep dive it in practice

It's not feasible.
RE: If you had..  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15134576 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
computer simulation that ran real-life defensive formations, you might be able to get a look at how that D would stack up against planned offensive plays, but Madden is so far away from that standard.

Even then, watching film and seeing tendencies replaces any benefit from the computer information.

There are almost certainly some very sophisticated AI applications that could be used effectively for football simulation and gameplanning. Machine learning is advanced enough to apply tendencies to what you want to do, and see how the AI version of your opponent responds. It wouldn't be infallible, but it could be an extremely valuable tool in preparation.

A Madden video game platform isn't equipped to handle that level of AI workload. It's built to let couch commandoes live out their NFL dreams, not vice versa.
RE: If Madden or any other vid football games  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15134593 Section331 said:
Quote:
were close enough a simulation of the actual game, this might make sense, but the games are so geared towards offense and scoring that it isn't a reasonable simulation. Not even close.

I know it's hard for a Giants fan to acknowledge this, but the actual NFL is also geared toward offense and scoring.
what's described in the original post  
Enzo : 1/26/2021 1:17 pm : link
doesn't seem like it would be useful at all. What would be useful is simulating situations for clock management purposes. Some of the "innovative" stuff coaches have been doing have been known to Madden players for years.
Madden's clearly just trying to sell his game LOL  
FStubbs : 1/26/2021 4:11 pm : link
.
RE: I know some will criticize this because it is more him  
FStubbs : 1/26/2021 4:12 pm : link
In comment 15134564 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
promoting his game but there could be value in this assuming the simulation/game is somewhat accurate. It shouldn't be implemented but if you can prove that there is value in it that would be something worth exploring.


"The Raiders were at their best when they used 'ask Madden' for literally every play over a 10 year span."
Take a look at Madden's rating's over the last two years...  
'25GiantsPride : 1/26/2021 8:26 pm : link
It's been a sinking ship for a decade now. Horrible game that seems to get worse every year.
Back when 2k was still in the fold, the gameplay was awfully realistic  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/26/2021 8:59 pm : link
for the most part. At least schemes and what not, outside the occasional cheese plays you could run with the right teams. In fact, it definitely was a good tool when I was learning how to read defenses. 3-4 years ago I borrowed my roommates ps5 to play GTA 5 and the new Madden. Madden got played for about one day before it went off. It's all about skills on the sticks now and not about beating people with scheme and strenghts/weaknesses.
Back to the Corner