Has the Giants taking Pitts at #11. I don't love it as I feel good Tight Ends can be found later in the draft. Understood, how good Pitts can be. Travis Kelce was pick in the 3rd round and George Kittle in the 5th round to give some recent examples.
Realize, we need playmakers, just feel if Chase, Waddle, Smith are picked in the top 6 as Kiper has it, wait till 2nd round and take an Edge rusher or CB in the 1st round.
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by the time we pick? If so, I'd be somewhat pissed if we took Pitts over him
The only way Surtain gets past Dallas at 10 is if Jerry locks his son in the bathroom before the pick. I think he'll be gone before then, but would be (happily) stunned if he made it past DAL. I think he is the best non-QB in the draft.
People always make definitive statements like that regarding the NFL draft... Player X will never get past team Y. But then with Player X still on the board team Y invariably takes someone else ;>)
If Pitts is drafted as high as we think he is, he's playing TE.
Then he's a terrible pick at 11.
If Pitts is drafted as high as we think he is, he's playing TE.
Good post. The Plax comparison is lazy.
People always make definitive statements like that regarding the NFL draft... Player X will never get past team Y. But then with Player X still on the board team Y invariably takes someone else ;>)
Oh definitely, you never know what will happen, I just think that Surtain and Dallas are too good a fit to miss. That said, Jerry has been known to go for the flashy object.
This is exactly what I said about him on another thread. He's literally Plax+ due to his positional flexibility. I'm seeing that as his floor. You can't teach his size, wingspan, and catching ability, both going up to get it and contested catches. As long as he puts up even mediocre athlete numbers, he's about a sure thing to translate as there is. How is that not worth pick 11? Some people that haven't watched him much I guess are just looking at the history of 1st round tight ends when he doesn't really fit that mold at all. He's an extremely unique player. There's differnce between being a tweener and an Hybrid. Hybrid can play both positions at high level. Tweener doesn't really have a true position.
At WR, Pitts is basically Ramses Barden. He is a TE, and in the right offense, he will be a terror. We have a run-heavy offense that needs blocking from its TE's, and an OC who doesn't seem to know how to use the TE he has (Engram should be running the vertical seam at least once a half, I think I saw it once all year).
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disingenuous. Plax never played anything but WR, WR's & TE's have major differences in the types of routes they run and how precisely they need to run them. Pitts may be a good route runner for a TE, but can enough to get open v DB's vs LB's? Maybe, but that is a huge leap of faith for a #11 pick.
If Pitts is drafted as high as we think he is, he's playing TE.
Good post. The Plax comparison is lazy.
Didn’t Pitts mostly line up wide last year? I know he did a bit of traditional TE blocking, but I thought he was mostly playing WR last year, in the Plax, Brandon Marshall mode, and going against corners. I don’t think he’s going to be an NFL tight end (in say the Kittle sense), I think he’s a split out wide guy mostly. Looks like a terrific, balanced athlete to me, but he apparently runs in the 4.7 range. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but unclear to me the value of him as a pure receiver at #11.
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This is exactly what I said about him on another thread. He's literally Plax+ due to his positional flexibility. I'm seeing that as his floor. You can't teach his size, wingspan, and catching ability, both going up to get it and contested catches. As long as he puts up even mediocre athlete numbers, he's about a sure thing to translate as there is. How is that not worth pick 11? Some people that haven't watched him much I guess are just looking at the history of 1st round tight ends when he doesn't really fit that mold at all. He's an extremely unique player. There's differnce between being a tweener and an Hybrid. Hybrid can play both positions at high level. Tweener doesn't really have a true position.
At WR, Pitts is basically Ramses Barden. He is a TE, and in the right offense, he will be a terror. We have a run-heavy offense that needs blocking from its TE's, and an OC who doesn't seem to know how to use the TE he has (Engram should be running the vertical seam at least once a half, I think I saw it once all year).
Garrett seemed to know how to use Jason Whitten effectively. The Giants don't have a TE. Engram is neither a TE nor a WR.
Garrett seemed to know how to use Jason Whitten effectively. The Giants don't have a TE. Engram is neither a TE nor a WR.
The problem is that Garrett tried to use Engram the same way as Witten. For all of his flaws, Engram excelled at running the seam at Ole Miss, but for some reason isn't asked to do it here, despite any deep passing threat being a desperate need.
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Garrett seemed to know how to use Jason Whitten effectively. The Giants don't have a TE. Engram is neither a TE nor a WR.
The problem is that Garrett tried to use Engram the same way as Witten. For all of his flaws, Engram excelled at running the seam at Ole Miss, but for some reason isn't asked to do it here, despite any deep passing threat being a desperate need.
could be. Irony is the TE seam play was a staple of Giants offense for decades from the '70s through Coughlin.
Thanks!
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Garrett seemed to know how to use Jason Whitten effectively. The Giants don't have a TE. Engram is neither a TE nor a WR.
The problem is that Garrett tried to use Engram the same way as Witten. For all of his flaws, Engram excelled at running the seam at Ole Miss, but for some reason isn't asked to do it here, despite any deep passing threat being a desperate need.
The problem with Engram isn't the scheme or the plays it's Engram. He's not a good route runner, catcher of the football or blocker. He's just not good at football.
A lot to like. Could end up a very good one. The negatives? Stiff hips. A bit like Aaron Ross. May run a bit slow.
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or a guarantee, but I'd trying to find a reason why Surtain won't be awesome in the pros
A lot to like. Could end up a very good one. The negatives? Stiff hips. A bit like Aaron Ross. May run a bit slow.
He ran a 4.57 in HS, so I've got to think that has improved with a Bama training regimen. Fluidity and short area burst are weaknesses in his game, but not uncommon with bigger corners. I think his size and technique more than make up for it.
What I love about him is that he is equally comfortable in zone or man, and he is an excellent tackler. With so many NFL offenses intent on testing the edges, you need CB's who can tackle. Putting him across from Bradberry would be an enormous improvement to our D, and allow Graham to play more man cover.
Didn’t Pitts mostly line up wide last year? I know he did a bit of traditional TE blocking, but I thought he was mostly playing WR last year, in the Plax, Brandon Marshall mode, and going against corners. I don’t think he’s going to be an NFL tight end (in say the Kittle sense), I think he’s a split out wide guy mostly. Looks like a terrific, balanced athlete to me, but he apparently runs in the 4.7 range. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but unclear to me the value of him as a pure receiver at #11.
I don't know what the splits were between lining up at TE and split out. But I saw him do both the last two years.
I see him as a TE who is flexible to be on the line and split out. And I anticipate he's going to be a handful.
I agree with this. Unfortunately, Plax was a very special athlete who was able to get open downfield. lots of these big, tall receivers lose coordination the farther downfield they get. If Pitts can transition to WR, I'm interested. If not, forget it.
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disingenuous. Plax never played anything but WR, WR's & TE's have major differences in the types of routes they run and how precisely they need to run them. Pitts may be a good route runner for a TE, but can enough to get open v DB's vs LB's? Maybe, but that is a huge leap of faith for a #11 pick.
If Pitts is drafted as high as we think he is, he's playing TE.
Good post. The Plax comparison is lazy.
Is it? I feel like they are very similar players, except Pitts can actually play inside. Obviously Plax had a little better speed, but he wasn't blowing anyone away either. He used his height, long arms, and ability to make contested catches and high point the ball. I actually think Pitts is better here, which is scary to think about. Hard time not seeing him as this unstoppable force in the red zone. The game is about scoring points and red zone efficiency is key, to me thats worth the 11th pick on its own.
His 2020 record of 43 catches at almost 18 ypc included an absolutly ridiculous 12 TD and 35 FD? How is that even possible? Someone must have miscounted, since I don't quite think a TD catch can ALSO BE a first down conversion reception can it?
It would seem that from Ptts's 43 receptions in 8 games (many of them vs bracket coverage; it's worth noting) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was either a touchdown or a first down?
That's insane. It's silly. It's inhuman.
Stats linked below.
Kyle Pitts' Performance was Superhuman - ( New Window )
It would seem that from Pitts's 43 receptions in 8 games (many of them vs bracket coverage; it's worth noting) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was either a touchdown or a first down?
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Not true. It's easy enough to check the play-by-play for UF's games at ESPN.
In the Texas A&M game alone, he had three catches that were neither first downs nor TDs.
Mentioned in the other thread a concern about the target Pitts presents going over the middle. Link is to the hit that put him out with a concussion for a few weeks in the middle of the season.
UF vs UGA - ( New Window )
This is a good point. I'd imagine teams are going to have boards all over the place this year.
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It would seem that from Pitts's 43 receptions in 8 games (many of them vs bracket coverage; it's worth noting) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was either a touchdown or a first down?
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Not true. It's easy enough to check the play-by-play for UF's games at ESPN.
In the Texas A&M game alone, he had three catches that were neither first downs nor TDs.
Mentioned in the other thread a concern about the target Pitts presents going over the middle. Link is to the hit that put him out with a concussion for a few weeks in the middle of the season. UF vs UGA - ( New Window )
Thanks for the reference to ESPN, I had npt known that was possible. So those stats from the Football Database are wrong? I'll try to cross reference them, they cited 35 first downs among his 43 receptions, which is still incredible if correct.
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That "sure fire top-10" pick may or may not be someone the Giants want at 11, but someone is likely to fall to them unexpectedly.
His 2020 record of 43 catches at almost 18 ypc included an absolutly ridiculous 12 TD and 35 FD? How is that even possible? Someone must have miscounted, since I don't quite think a TD catch can ALSO BE a first down conversion reception can it?
It would seem that from Ptts's 43 receptions in 8 games (many of them vs bracket coverage; it's worth noting) EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was either a touchdown or a first down?
That's insane. It's silly. It's inhuman.
Stats linked below. Kyle Pitts' Performance was Superhuman - ( New Window )
You forgot to mention his zero drops on the season.
Thanks for the reference to ESPN, I had npt known that was possible. So those stats from the Football Database are wrong? I'll try to cross reference them, they cited 35 first downs among his 43 receptions, which is still incredible if correct.
Not wrong; it's a matter of the accounting rule for touchdowns as first downs.
35 first downs out of 43 receptions is 81%. That's high but not unheard of.
Darius Slayton had 80% of his catches (40/50) for first downs this year and had a disappointing season.
Jake Ballard, tight end, had 81% of his catches (31/38) for first downs for the 2011 Giants.
35 first downs out of 43 receptions is 81%. That's high but not unheard of.
Darius Slayton had 80% of his catches (40/50) for first downs this year and had a disappointing season.
Jake Ballard, tight end, had 81% of his catches (31/38) for first downs for the 2011 Giants. [/quote]
Combined with 12 TDs among 43 catches. A TD every 3.5 catches. The first downs are only part of the story. YPC, TD/rec often vs bracket coverage and the opponent's best coverage DB....
Some pundit called it "the best season any TE has had in over 30 years."
Don't recall who though...