Is not the real problem on this team it’s the lack of talent, availability of talent and the lack of providing talented players behind medicure starters. This to me has been the back breaker for years they are just not developing competition on the roster. Guys are only playing when the starter gets hurt and then they almost all prove they are not NFL caliber players or show us a glimmer of home never to take the next step. The entire universe knew Jones had no backup from day one several opportunities came about during the year but they just stood back and watched never making a move to bring in real talent. This will be the continuous process throughout this entire roster they keep believing on hopes and prayers, players not worthy of even a hope. How can a team continue to incredibly not find or develop young players year after year?
the problem with this franchise has been sub-par QB play for the better part of almost a decade?
AND it's just as simple as that?
That's certainly possible too.
Of course to accept that premise, you have to believe that Eli Manning fell off a cliff at the age of 31, coming off an MVP-type season.
Jones? He may end up being what a lot of people think he is. But to say he isn't dramatically impacted by those around him seems just downright ridiculous to me. Those making that argument keep bringing up Mahomes and Brady. Well duh, Jones isn't those guys.
and in another thread I wrote that I made my 13 yr old son (who is a Giants fan - but talks smack on him all the time b/c he only watched the "late in his career Eli") sit and watch the Eli vs SF 2011 NFC championship game and I immediately thought - I haven't seen QB play like that from a Giants QB in a long, long time.
THat's the last time I witnessed transcendent QB play from a guy with a NY on his helmet.
BUT I HAVE seen it across the NFL when other teams play since then.
The Giants need to muster the courage, and allow for the possibility they were wrong about Jones. The best way to do that is a real QB competition, with a league average vet.
It should be concerning that Colt McCoy performed roughly as well as Jones. A 3rd year Jones should wipe the floor with a Tyrod Taylor in camp, pre-season, and in-season.
If that doesn’t happen, then you kinda know, right?
The Giants need to muster the courage, and allow for the possibility they were wrong about Jones. The best way to do that is a real QB competition, with a league average vet.
It should be concerning that Colt McCoy performed roughly as well as Jones. A 3rd year Jones should wipe the floor with a Tyrod Taylor in camp, pre-season, and in-season.
If that doesn’t happen, then you kinda know, right?
McCoy did not perform as well as Daniel Jones. That simply didn't happen.
McCoy started two games. In the one game he played "well", the Giants were shut out in the first half. Even with Wayne Gallman running wild, the Giants only scored 17 points.
In the second game he started, the Giants scored two field goals. That's it.
I get you guys who have already made up you mind about Jones want to argue, but you have to do so based on reality, not myth.
This team is bad because the drafting and free agent
acquisitions have been poor for a number of years. The question is only is Jones a victim of that, or simply a continuation of that?
This team is so bad it is hard to define what the real problems are. Does the QB suck? Does the QB just look like he sucks because everyone around him sucks?
But we will stay the course and someday it will all just be better.
I haven't made my mind up on Jones. I'm down on him. I want a more persuasive case why next year will be significantly better and that Jones' ceiling is that of a top ten QB. I do not see it. I find 'I don't know' to be a bit of a weak argument (I enjoy the reviews, so I apologize if this comes off rude/abrasive). We know quite a bit about Jones and can use that to try and form a range of outcomes, while trying to have some humility in our projections
I think Jones has a near zero percent chance of being a top five QB. I think he as a small chance of being a top ten QB (a guy who makes a bunch of Pro Bowls), and can be above average in the right situation. I think it's more likely he's an average/below-average QB.
I think the Giants are in a situation where upgrading the QB position this off-season is too costly and therefore support seeing another year of Jones - preferably with a better backup and a real weapon. I'd obviously take Lawrence #1 if we had that pick and would analyze the other QBs more deeply if we were picking top 3. But we don't so I think we should see another year of Jones before making a real decision.
Jones is going to be better next year. But both sides are going to view a 25/14 year as confirming our prior views and we'll have this discussion again next year. I'm dying for a 33/10 year.
I haven't made my mind up on Jones. I'm down on him. I want a more persuasive case why next year will be significantly better and that Jones' ceiling is that of a top ten QB. I do not see it. I find 'I don't know' to be a bit of a weak argument (I enjoy the reviews, so I apologize if this comes off rude/abrasive). We know quite a bit about Jones and can use that to try and form a range of outcomes, while trying to have some humility in our projections
I think Jones has a near zero percent chance of being a top five QB. I think he as a small chance of being a top ten QB (a guy who makes a bunch of Pro Bowls), and can be above average in the right situation. I think it's more likely he's an average/below-average QB.
I think the Giants are in a situation where upgrading the QB position this off-season is too costly and therefore support seeing another year of Jones - preferably with a better backup and a real weapon. I'd obviously take Lawrence #1 if we had that pick and would analyze the other QBs more deeply if we were picking top 3. But we don't so I think we should see another year of Jones before making a real decision.
Jones is going to be better next year. But both sides are going to view a 25/14 year as confirming our prior views and we'll have this discussion again next year. I'm dying for a 33/10 year.
This is very much how I see it. I don't feel like we are waiting to see if Jones is great or very good. I think we are waiting to see if he is competent. You can wait on greatness a little longer.
McCoy did not perform as well as Daniel Jones. That simply didn't happen.
McCoy started two games. In the one game he played "well", the Giants were shut out in the first half. Even with Wayne Gallman running wild, the Giants only scored 17 points.
In the second game he started, the Giants scored two field goals. That's it.
I get you guys who have already made up you mind about Jones want to argue, but you have to do so based on reality, not myth.
Eric, you're describing how the Giants performed, not how the QB performed. That's not what I posted, nor what I meant.
I also don't have my mind made up about Jones. My post said the Giants should have a fair competition between Jones and a vet. It's weird you gleaned my mind was made up from that statement. What I've described is literally the opposite of having made up my mind.
What I said is the QBs performed roughly the same, which the numbers indicate. It's a small sample size, so the Giants should have an open competition in camp and pre-season.
I haven't made my mind up on Jones. I'm down on him. I want a more persuasive case why next year will be significantly better and that Jones' ceiling is that of a top ten QB. I do not see it. I find 'I don't know' to be a bit of a weak argument (I enjoy the reviews, so I apologize if this comes off rude/abrasive). We know quite a bit about Jones and can use that to try and form a range of outcomes, while trying to have some humility in our projections
I think Jones has a near zero percent chance of being a top five QB. I think he as a small chance of being a top ten QB (a guy who makes a bunch of Pro Bowls), and can be above average in the right situation. I think it's more likely he's an average/below-average QB.
I think the Giants are in a situation where upgrading the QB position this off-season is too costly and therefore support seeing another year of Jones - preferably with a better backup and a real weapon. I'd obviously take Lawrence #1 if we had that pick and would analyze the other QBs more deeply if we were picking top 3. But we don't so I think we should see another year of Jones before making a real decision.
Jones is going to be better next year. But both sides are going to view a 25/14 year as confirming our prior views and we'll have this discussion again next year. I'm dying for a 33/10 year.
I would THINK all Giants fans on this board are hoping for a 33/10 year. Unfortunately, I believe there are some on this board so entrenched in their position they would rather see Jones fail. If he doesn't have a year somewhat close to this and/or his turnover problems continue, I'm ready to cut bait.
Sign me up for a 33/10 year without the 20 fumbles
He will have proved himself and the discussion this time next year will be on the terms of the extension he will be signing.
I hope to hell he puts up those numbers, but I will believe it when I see it.
The best outcome is of course Jones developing into a good QB. I think even the most severe critics agree.
I’m with you, I’ll believe it when I see it. I also would like the Giants to be smart about it. Bring on a vet to push the guy and also help test whether it’s Jones or the other guys who aren’t cutting it.
RE: RE: If Jones goes 33/10 and reduces the fumbles next year
He will have proved himself and the discussion this time next year will be on the terms of the extension he will be signing.
I hope to hell he puts up those numbers, but I will believe it when I see it.
The best outcome is of course Jones developing into a good QB. I think even the most severe critics agree.
I’m with you, I’ll believe it when I see it. I also would like the Giants to be smart about it. Bring on a vet to push the guy and also help test whether it’s Jones or the other guys who aren’t cutting it.
Of course Daniel Jones becoming "the guy" is the best outcome. And it's nonsense for anyone to even suggest that his critics on BBI don't as well. That is just exaggerating for effect.
As to your other point, I do think its smart for the Giants to bring in better competition for Jones, not because he appears to be slacking (like a Haskins) but because its good business.
But that is so outside of typical NYG thinking. If they do it, you know it is because Judge pushed for it.
I'd be pleasantly surprised if they brought in an outside QB with the intent to push for a starting job. It would fly in the face of what they continue to say publicly about Jones.
AND it's just as simple as that?
AND it's just as simple as that?
That's certainly possible too.
Of course to accept that premise, you have to believe that Eli Manning fell off a cliff at the age of 31, coming off an MVP-type season.
Jones? He may end up being what a lot of people think he is. But to say he isn't dramatically impacted by those around him seems just downright ridiculous to me. Those making that argument keep bringing up Mahomes and Brady. Well duh, Jones isn't those guys.
THat's the last time I witnessed transcendent QB play from a guy with a NY on his helmet.
BUT I HAVE seen it across the NFL when other teams play since then.
It should be concerning that Colt McCoy performed roughly as well as Jones. A 3rd year Jones should wipe the floor with a Tyrod Taylor in camp, pre-season, and in-season.
If that doesn’t happen, then you kinda know, right?
It should be concerning that Colt McCoy performed roughly as well as Jones. A 3rd year Jones should wipe the floor with a Tyrod Taylor in camp, pre-season, and in-season.
If that doesn’t happen, then you kinda know, right?
This is well said.
McCoy started two games. In the one game he played "well", the Giants were shut out in the first half. Even with Wayne Gallman running wild, the Giants only scored 17 points.
In the second game he started, the Giants scored two field goals. That's it.
I get you guys who have already made up you mind about Jones want to argue, but you have to do so based on reality, not myth.
This team is so bad it is hard to define what the real problems are. Does the QB suck? Does the QB just look like he sucks because everyone around him sucks?
But we will stay the course and someday it will all just be better.
I think Jones has a near zero percent chance of being a top five QB. I think he as a small chance of being a top ten QB (a guy who makes a bunch of Pro Bowls), and can be above average in the right situation. I think it's more likely he's an average/below-average QB.
I think the Giants are in a situation where upgrading the QB position this off-season is too costly and therefore support seeing another year of Jones - preferably with a better backup and a real weapon. I'd obviously take Lawrence #1 if we had that pick and would analyze the other QBs more deeply if we were picking top 3. But we don't so I think we should see another year of Jones before making a real decision.
Jones is going to be better next year. But both sides are going to view a 25/14 year as confirming our prior views and we'll have this discussion again next year. I'm dying for a 33/10 year.
I think Jones has a near zero percent chance of being a top five QB. I think he as a small chance of being a top ten QB (a guy who makes a bunch of Pro Bowls), and can be above average in the right situation. I think it's more likely he's an average/below-average QB.
I think the Giants are in a situation where upgrading the QB position this off-season is too costly and therefore support seeing another year of Jones - preferably with a better backup and a real weapon. I'd obviously take Lawrence #1 if we had that pick and would analyze the other QBs more deeply if we were picking top 3. But we don't so I think we should see another year of Jones before making a real decision.
Jones is going to be better next year. But both sides are going to view a 25/14 year as confirming our prior views and we'll have this discussion again next year. I'm dying for a 33/10 year.
This is very much how I see it. I don't feel like we are waiting to see if Jones is great or very good. I think we are waiting to see if he is competent. You can wait on greatness a little longer.
One last time time. Phil Simms had ELITE Physical QB skills when he was drafted. Daniel Jones does not.
It's like comparing a Maserati to a Camry.
McCoy started two games. In the one game he played "well", the Giants were shut out in the first half. Even with Wayne Gallman running wild, the Giants only scored 17 points.
In the second game he started, the Giants scored two field goals. That's it.
I get you guys who have already made up you mind about Jones want to argue, but you have to do so based on reality, not myth.
Eric, you're describing how the Giants performed, not how the QB performed. That's not what I posted, nor what I meant.
I also don't have my mind made up about Jones. My post said the Giants should have a fair competition between Jones and a vet. It's weird you gleaned my mind was made up from that statement. What I've described is literally the opposite of having made up my mind.
What I said is the QBs performed roughly the same, which the numbers indicate. It's a small sample size, so the Giants should have an open competition in camp and pre-season.
McCoy 2020 (1-1)
66 Cmp% / 1.5 TD% / 1.5 INT%/ .01 Fum % / 5.7 YPA / ~187.5 YPStart
Jones 2020 (5-9)
62.5 Cmp% / 2.5% / 2.2 INT% / .02 Fum%/ 6.6 YPA / ~210 YPStart
I think Jones has a near zero percent chance of being a top five QB. I think he as a small chance of being a top ten QB (a guy who makes a bunch of Pro Bowls), and can be above average in the right situation. I think it's more likely he's an average/below-average QB.
I think the Giants are in a situation where upgrading the QB position this off-season is too costly and therefore support seeing another year of Jones - preferably with a better backup and a real weapon. I'd obviously take Lawrence #1 if we had that pick and would analyze the other QBs more deeply if we were picking top 3. But we don't so I think we should see another year of Jones before making a real decision.
Jones is going to be better next year. But both sides are going to view a 25/14 year as confirming our prior views and we'll have this discussion again next year. I'm dying for a 33/10 year.
I would THINK all Giants fans on this board are hoping for a 33/10 year. Unfortunately, I believe there are some on this board so entrenched in their position they would rather see Jones fail. If he doesn't have a year somewhat close to this and/or his turnover problems continue, I'm ready to cut bait.
I hope to hell he puts up those numbers, but I will believe it when I see it.
I hope to hell he puts up those numbers, but I will believe it when I see it.
The best outcome is of course Jones developing into a good QB. I think even the most severe critics agree.
I’m with you, I’ll believe it when I see it. I also would like the Giants to be smart about it. Bring on a vet to push the guy and also help test whether it’s Jones or the other guys who aren’t cutting it.
Quote:
He will have proved himself and the discussion this time next year will be on the terms of the extension he will be signing.
I hope to hell he puts up those numbers, but I will believe it when I see it.
The best outcome is of course Jones developing into a good QB. I think even the most severe critics agree.
I’m with you, I’ll believe it when I see it. I also would like the Giants to be smart about it. Bring on a vet to push the guy and also help test whether it’s Jones or the other guys who aren’t cutting it.
Of course Daniel Jones becoming "the guy" is the best outcome. And it's nonsense for anyone to even suggest that his critics on BBI don't as well. That is just exaggerating for effect.
As to your other point, I do think its smart for the Giants to bring in better competition for Jones, not because he appears to be slacking (like a Haskins) but because its good business.
But that is so outside of typical NYG thinking. If they do it, you know it is because Judge pushed for it.