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| 17 Deshaun Watson trade proposals, ranked from least likely to most likely to happen in the 2021 NFL offseason #12) New York Giants Giants send: 11th overall pick in 2021, 2022 first-round pick, 2023 first-round pick, QB Daniel Jones Texans send: 2023 fourth-round pick, QB Deshaun Watson Jones showed virtually no growth in his second season, as his numbers stagnated or declined across the board. He missed two-plus games with injuries and led the league in fumbles for the second consecutive season. The best arguments that he's an NFL-caliber starting quarterback consist of his frame and the fact that at least one team thought he was worth the sixth overall pick in the 2019 draft. I'm not sure anybody is higher on Jones than the guy who would be trading him away, Giants general manager Dave Gettleman. Jones is still young enough to improve, but he hasn't been good enough for the Texans to plan their future around him, which leaves the Giants in a bind. Would they be willing to send three first-rounders and Jones to get a deal done? And after seeing one former Pats coach sink his franchise, would Watson want to go play for another Bill Belichick disciple in Joe Judge? |
A 1st for Rosen!!!!!!! Clown. LOLOLOLOLOL. Not so easy being a GM, is it?!
I really don't get the point. This is a discussion about Watson and the possible comp required to attain him.
The date of that post is 2019 before the 2019 draft and rumors were popping up that Arizona might draft Murray and trade Rosen. And, if I recall, many experts that Arizona could fetch a first at the time.
That said, some of the inconsistency in logic displayed on this thread as it pertains to what the Giants do or don't do is pretty apparent.
This is the right approach, to get back to Watson. Trust the Giants (with Judge) are doing their due diligence on a potential trade, and if they feel it is worth it, put a package together for Watson.
I would be over the moon if we made a deal for Watson.
Simply contradicting that Go Terps said emphatically that if Jones was on another team that anyone who suggested trading a 2nd for him would be crucified.
I'm guessing he didn't crucify you for suggesting that Rosen should fetch a 1st as galactically stupid as that recommendation was.
I could get on board with this.
Simply contradicting that Go Terps said emphatically that if Jones was on another team that anyone who suggested trading a 2nd for him would be crucified.
I'm guessing he didn't crucify you for suggesting that Rosen should fetch a 1st as galactically stupid as that recommendation was.
Impossible, Go Terps is NEVER wrong.
the debate is about the price to acquire Watson.
The price cannot inhibit the Giants ability to field a competitive team but also needs to be enough for HOU to be interested.
Exactly what a fair price is that would entice Houston and allow the Giants to compete is how this would work and therein lies the debate.
Captain obvious?
And maybe the Yankees can get Mike Trout for a couple of AAA pitchers. What do you think?
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Hard to say - Jones, a first, a two lesser picks, say a second and a fourth? Who knows if that works for Houston or not, but I would generally shy away from multiple firsts.
And maybe the Yankees can get Mike Trout for a couple of AAA pitchers. What do you think?
Go Terps' right hand clown.
Anything to distract from what Jones was in 2020. In the past two days we've probably seen 50 QBs from the past mentioned.
Jones was one of the very first quarterbacks in the NFL in 2020. The rest is noise.
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In comment 15137055 Greg from LI said:
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Hard to say - Jones, a first, a two lesser picks, say a second and a fourth? Who knows if that works for Houston or not, but I would generally shy away from multiple firsts.
And maybe the Yankees can get Mike Trout for a couple of AAA pitchers. What do you think?
Go Terps' right hand clown.
because a QB with 11TDs and 10INTs in a full season and ranks 25th to 32nd in every key metric is obviously a prized resource that every team will pony up for. Just admit you can't be objective due to your homerism and until Jones is cut from the squad you think he's the cat's meow.
I'd say Jones would fetch a mid-to-late 1st. I think Rosen is a decent temp check -- he was certainly way worse than what Jones has shown. If he can grab a 2nd round pick, I think Jones would grab a 1st.
I find that hard to believe, but anything is possible. I think Sam Darnold would definitely fetch a first round pick and he hasn’t been particularly good through 3 seasons.
As far as Rosen is concerned, I am not going to rewrite history. I wanted to trade #37 for him. I was in love with his flawless mechanics and accuracy, and thought he was in a very bad situation in Arizona.
Simply contradicting that Go Terps said emphatically that if Jones was on another team that anyone who suggested trading a 2nd for him would be crucified.
I'm guessing he didn't crucify you for suggesting that Rosen should fetch a 1st as galactically stupid as that recommendation was.
Whatever. If that helps you prove some point, good one - I guess.
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In comment 15137064 Producer said:
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In comment 15137055 Greg from LI said:
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Hard to say - Jones, a first, a two lesser picks, say a second and a fourth? Who knows if that works for Houston or not, but I would generally shy away from multiple firsts.
And maybe the Yankees can get Mike Trout for a couple of AAA pitchers. What do you think?
Go Terps' right hand clown.
because a QB with 11TDs and 10INTs in a full season and ranks 25th to 32nd in every key metric is obviously a prized resource that every team will pony up for. Just admit you can't be objective due to your homerism and until Jones is cut from the squad you think he's the cat's meow.
And this is why your logic is so flawed. You, Go Terps, et al believe it is either black or white. Nothing in between.
When, in fact, there are A LOT of people on this board that can recognize that Jones has to get better, Gettleman has to get better (or get fired; I would have been fine with replacing him after this last season), and Judge has to continue showing he is the goods.
This gray area can recognize the above, but at the same time believe Jones needs another year, with hopefully more talent around him, to show us if he's the future or not.
If he's not, cut bait and move on. But NOBODY can say with certainty that Jones is, or isn't, the answer right now. I believe year 3 will help decide that. People making definitive statements one way or the other are just ignorant a-holes.
Thanks. I think I'd do that but suspect HOU says no.
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Why are we talking about Rosen??
Anything to distract from what Jones was in 2020. In the past two days we've probably seen 50 QBs from the past mentioned.
Jones was one of the very first quarterbacks in the NFL in 2020. The rest is noise.
*worst, obviously...definitely not first.
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Why are we talking about Rosen??
Anything to distract from what Jones was in 2020. In the past two days we've probably seen 50 QBs from the past mentioned.
Jones was one of the very first quarterbacks in the NFL in 2020. The rest is noise.
That's pretty unfair. I realize that isn't directed towards everyone but some people actually have been speaking to the scenario with an open mind.
The Rosen comp matters because A. it happened recently and B. he looked like Sudfeld did in week 17 yet still netted at 2nd.
I think the mistake you are making is comparing Jones to the elite (which he's not) and then applying that logic to any any everyone on opposing teams thinking they should only want an elite QB.
Look at Tannehill. I thought he stunk, turns out he needed to go to a place with a better supporting cast and a system that fit him. I completely understand you not wanting to wait for the Giants to make that cozy sweet spot of a team for Jones to excel in but other teams can offer that, hence his trade value.
Would San Fran, Indy or New Orleans not be good fits for Jones to showcase what he does well? For New Orleans, who really can't move up for a QB, is a 2nd really even that expensive to maybe hit on a solid QB who can probably run the offense in tandem with Hill?
In sum, you can't want Giants fans to be open minded about everything and then claim opposing teams GM/fans shouldn't be open to what Jones can offer just because you don't like what you see from him.
They were talking on the radio about the WFT and getting Watson or Stafford. And the host was saying 2 1sts for Watson and a player and a 1st for Stafford and a player or picks. Most of the fans that called in was all for it. Either one and scenario. So there's that..
You can continue the "debate". I got some Twizzlers if y'all get hungry..
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In comment 15137066 BubbaMojo said:
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In comment 15137064 Producer said:
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In comment 15137055 Greg from LI said:
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Hard to say - Jones, a first, a two lesser picks, say a second and a fourth? Who knows if that works for Houston or not, but I would generally shy away from multiple firsts.
And maybe the Yankees can get Mike Trout for a couple of AAA pitchers. What do you think?
Go Terps' right hand clown.
because a QB with 11TDs and 10INTs in a full season and ranks 25th to 32nd in every key metric is obviously a prized resource that every team will pony up for. Just admit you can't be objective due to your homerism and until Jones is cut from the squad you think he's the cat's meow.
And this is why your logic is so flawed. You, Go Terps, et al believe it is either black or white. Nothing in between.
When, in fact, there are A LOT of people on this board that can recognize that Jones has to get better, Gettleman has to get better (or get fired; I would have been fine with replacing him after this last season), and Judge has to continue showing he is the goods.
This gray area can recognize the above, but at the same time believe Jones needs another year, with hopefully more talent around him, to show us if he's the future or not.
If he's not, cut bait and move on. But NOBODY can say with certainty that Jones is, or isn't, the answer right now. I believe year 3 will help decide that. People making definitive statements one way or the other are just ignorant a-holes.
but why must we wait for Jones to prove something when most elite QBs show it right away? Why can't we prepare for a back up plan now? That is what a smart organization does. they don't wait for years. Reid didn't wait for Alex Smith (a very good QB at the time). The Saints were ready to draft Mahomes even though they had Brees. We have Jones, who has been awful. Why do we have to "wait" for him?
They were talking on the radio about the WFT and getting Watson or Stafford. And the host was saying 2 1sts for Watson and a player and a 1st for Stafford and a player or picks. Most of the fans that called in was all for it. Either one and scenario. So there's that..
You can continue the "debate". I got some Twizzlers if y'all get hungry..
I would actually consider 2 firsts and a player (if that player was Jones) for Watson. I think I could live with that.
Tua is so weird. Jumps off the screen in college but that throwing motion and his injuries are just too much for me. Curious to see him in year 2 for sure, no idea what to expect.
No pocket presence, slow throwing motion, and poor ball security are not problems that go away.
The Giants blew the pick. They panicked about their QB situation, reached, and overdrafted him. It happens. Now it's just a matter of how long it will take them to realize it.
Just look who’s doing it. It’s the usual from them
If the Giants had more short term cap space (ala Jags, Jets), I could wrap my head around giving up a little bit more. But if you're moving 1st rounders to pay a QB $20-30m/year, you need to start winning immediately.
Right now I think there is too much unproductive $, and cleaning it up is going to take another season or two (to either just ride out the bad deals, or to cut them now and take the dead $ medicine).
Watson is one of my favorite players in the league, but I don't think it works well for NYG right now.
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But I wanted to put this out there:
They were talking on the radio about the WFT and getting Watson or Stafford. And the host was saying 2 1sts for Watson and a player and a 1st for Stafford and a player or picks. Most of the fans that called in was all for it. Either one and scenario. So there's that..
You can continue the "debate". I got some Twizzlers if y'all get hungry..
I would actually consider 2 firsts and a player (if that player was Jones) for Watson. I think I could live with that.
I wouldn't trade Jones this year. I would give him this year to see how the team around him is. I expected him to struggle this year so I am not really concerned right now..
No pocket presence, slow throwing motion, and poor ball security are not problems that go away.
The Giants blew the pick. They panicked about their QB situation, reached, and overdrafted him. It happens. Now it's just a matter of how long it will take them to realize it.
That's fine, but my point is plenty shared similar thoughts on a guy like Tannehill who's flourishing in a better system.
It is unfair to think Jones wouldn't do better on a better team and I suspect plenty of NFL personnel don't agree with you. Which is my point - what you want if you are an opposing fan couldn't be any less relevant.
What I'm seeing is that opposing coaches know his ball security and pocket presence stink, so they are emphasizing attacking him in the pocket and separating him from the ball.
The book is out on Jones.
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In comment 15137097 GManinDC said:
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But I wanted to put this out there:
They were talking on the radio about the WFT and getting Watson or Stafford. And the host was saying 2 1sts for Watson and a player and a 1st for Stafford and a player or picks. Most of the fans that called in was all for it. Either one and scenario. So there's that..
You can continue the "debate". I got some Twizzlers if y'all get hungry..
I would actually consider 2 firsts and a player (if that player was Jones) for Watson. I think I could live with that.
I wouldn't trade Jones this year. I would give him this year to see how the team around him is. I expected him to struggle this year so I am not really concerned right now..
I'm fine with keeping Jones and giving him his third year and always have been. I think he has much more potential than he is given credit for, here. However, this is an unexpected situation happening with Watson and if they (The Giants) did their due diligence with it and decided it was better to go with Watson and trade Jones plus whatever capital goes with him I would be pretty excited about.
What I'm seeing is that opposing coaches know his ball security and pocket presence stink, so they are emphasizing attacking him in the pocket and separating him from the ball.
The book is out on Jones.
Its based on the transactions and trends we all see each and every year - the reason Rosen was brought up, in fact. I know you want a very black and white answer but I don't have that for you.
You want "proof" for something that has so little context to begin with. If the proof was easy for us both to point to we wouldn't be sitting here talking about trading Jones away - he'd be someone we'd unanimously agree is our future.
Also, i think 2nd round picks are completely overvalued here and its a fairly small price to pay for possibly getting your next QB even if they end up only being decent.
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In comment 15137064 Producer said:
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In comment 15137055 Greg from LI said:
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Hard to say - Jones, a first, a two lesser picks, say a second and a fourth? Who knows if that works for Houston or not, but I would generally shy away from multiple firsts.
And maybe the Yankees can get Mike Trout for a couple of AAA pitchers. What do you think?
Go Terps' right hand clown.
because a QB with 11TDs and 10INTs in a full season and ranks 25th to 32nd in every key metric is obviously a prized resource that every team will pony up for. Just admit you can't be objective due to your homerism and until Jones is cut from the squad you think he's the cat's meow.
objective? you sound like a fan who has never seen a qb improve. Never? You're a broken fucking record.
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they don't impact the wins and losses like a HC can and will. If the HC sucks, especially during a full fledged crisis/rebuild phase like 17 led to, the GM won't look very good now will he.
How many GMs looked shaky before finally finding solid ground? How many looked great for years before the team completely fell apart? How come great HCs rarely every become bad ones but we see good GMs preside over bad teams all the time? Ask yourself how that happens?
What's the expiration date for this reasoning, or is there one? How long does Gettleman get a pass for horrid teams? One more year? Two? Three?
It depends. Not everything is that black and white. Let's say the GM did have a big say in why a team is struggling, that doesn't mean the same GM will not lead that same team to prominence. There are mitigating factors but if the Giants have another losing season and Jones isn't showing enough to believe in, DG likely is shown the door. I couldn't argue with that if it came to pass but I don't like to lay down blanket statements like that because who knows what unfolds next season. The entire team could be injured like oh, say the 1983 Giants or the 2006 Giants.
I saw enough personnel promise this season to buy DG another off-season.
Jones isn't average though. We're lowering our standards down to hoping he becomes average. You see it even from his supporters, who are now trying to sell everyone (especially themselves) on the idea that you don't need a great QB to win in the NFL.
Jones is below average. Maybe he'll get to average, and he likely won't get to very good and almost certainly not great.
I hate when the Giants are losing like this. Life isn't as enjoyable. I would sell my soul for a PAts like run from this franchise. I want to win more than anyone believe me. I just don't think firing the GM and bringing in someone else is this end all be all panacea. Blood on the ground doesn't always help things improve.
I also have no doubt that some, not all but some here simply want punishment. Someone has to pay. Doesn't matter if it leads to better things, someone has to be held accountable. I don't think that way.
because this thread has gone full stupid.
Who the fuck cares what Jones would fetch in a trade? Some of the "experts" here, there and everywhere were shouting from the hilltops that Eli Manning was an overrated bust while the guy was winning division titles here.
Who cares? Jones isn't a finished product yet! And if he is, well, we can bow our heads to the almighty poster here who JUST KNEW this. I don't give a fuck. The coach wants Jones, we go with Jones. Fucking deal with it.
but why must we wait for Jones to prove something when most elite QBs show it right away? Why can't we prepare for a back up plan now? That is what a smart organization does. they don't wait for years. Reid didn't wait for Alex Smith (a very good QB at the time). The Saints were ready to draft Mahomes even though they had Brees. We have Jones, who has been awful. Why do we have to "wait" for him?
I agree with you there. I guess I actually believe our organization is going through this evaluative process as we speak. They are evaluating the available QBs and determining if it is worth pursuing. Maybe I have too much faith in the organization that they are doing this. But maybe you don't have enough faith?
If they determine that it is better to stick with Jones (maybe because the compensation was too much in their eyes to pull the trigger on a trade?), I am hoping that Jones shows great strides this upcoming season and shows us he can be a franchise QB. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. If not, I will have no problem cutting bait and moving on. But I'm hoping Jones succeeds; are you?
If the organization determines the value is right to make a trade and move on from Jones, I will be excited as well. I will root like hell for our new QB to succeed.
Just don't like the definitive statements that Jones is (or isn't) the answer. Nobody knows that yet.
It has nothing to do with "punishment". Gettleman has done a terrible job. Why shouldn't he be held responsible for that?
We warned in 2018 about hiring Gettleman, about drafting Barkley, about sticking with Eli. We've warned about the other missteps since as they were happening. You and others were there spouting the same bullshit you're spouting now about patience, about not being negative, and so on.
15-33. Three years thrown away.
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its actually quite interesting to see. 10+ teams would sign up for average QB play right now. I completely understand wanting to be better than that but its usually not realistic outside of making a drastic change (like trading 3 firsts for Watson) which can also backfire.
Jones isn't average though. We're lowering our standards down to hoping he becomes average. You see it even from his supporters, who are now trying to sell everyone (especially themselves) on the idea that you don't need a great QB to win in the NFL.
Jones is below average. Maybe he'll get to average, and he likely won't get to very good and almost certainly not great.
Well no, now you are making stuff up. I just got through telling you that I think he'd fit in well on 3 teams, two of which have dominant run games. I think Jones can be average for them and that average could be good enough, while keeping their assets and cap room to get better.
Look, I really don't care to convince you of anything. But stop telling people what they should want. I'd love a Pat Mahomes but we don't have one nor are we getting one. So its time to live in the real world (something you so often lecture on) and realize we likely have to work with what we got out side of a very drastic hail mary.
In the grand scheme of things you and I aren't far off, but I'm not as far as you on the other end of the extreme.