This offseason has the potential to be the biggest changing of the guard at QB in a long time. At this point Rivers is retiring, Brees as well, and we don’t know yet about Big Ben.
With all of the Jones hate on here it seems like we are not in all that bad of shape prospect/talent wise with Jones. If you look across the league you have several teams with big questions now at QB.
Atlanta: Matt Ryan- old and may he gone
Carolina: Bridgewater
Tampa: Brady- will he come back?
New Orleans - Winston or Taysom Hill?
Philly: Wentz or Hurts?
WFT: Alex Smith, Heinecke?
Dallas- Prescott (coming off major injury though, not signed)
Chicago: ? Trubisky may be gone
Detroit- new coach and GM and apparently moving on from Stafford
Green Bay - Rodgers
Minnesota: Cousins who does not impress me at all
49ers - Garrapolo, meh, always hurt and sucked in the big game
Rams - Goff, Mr. Inconsistent
Arizona - Murray, nice prospect but faded second half this year
Seahawks- Wilson, no issues there
Buffalo- Allen, no issues there
Miami- Tua? Didn’t look so great year one, injuries continued
New England - ??
Jets - Darnold? Draft pick?
Chiefs - Mahomes, all set
Raiders - Derek Carr, meh
Chargers- Herbert, looks like the goods
Broncos - Drew Lock, not impressed so far
Titans - Tannehill, not bad
Colts - ??
Houston - Watson for now
Jags - Lawrence, rookie with tons of hype
Pittsburgh - Big Ben, if he doesn’t retire
Cleveland - Mayfield, looked better this year
Ravens - Lamar Jackson, all set
Bengals - Burrow, looked good but bad knee injury
Based on that list, pre-free agency and draft I see about 10-12 teams that are in good shape at QB. So 2/3 of the league has what on the surface appear to be questionable QB situations heading into the offseason. We could be in much worse shape than having a guy who can run, has a strong arm, and is heading into his third year with hopefully more weapons at his disposal.
There really aren’t that many franchise QB’s and why you see these extended careers. The college game has impacted OL and I think you can make the argument QB’s have been impacted s well.
There really aren’t that many franchise QB’s and why you see these extended careers. The college game has impacted OL and I think you can make the argument QB’s have been impacted s well.
Good post and agree on the college game impacting line play and probably QB’s. Mahomes is a great example of a gamble that paid off. He played in the air raid offense which is way different than the NFL. He didn’t fall to the middle of the first round because half the league has morons for executives. He was hard to read based on the college offense he played in.
I think Daniel Jones can be a top 10 qb if we pay him not what the top qbs make. Goff and Wentz might be better if they were not eating up some much of their teams resources. Cousins should never be making the money he is making.
If Jones shows promise and has a strong year three and four, when it comes contract time, I hope we are not looking at making him the highest paid qb. The amounts are just too much and hurt the rest of the team.
Brady never made as much money as he could have and is on to his 10th superbowl--I do think there is a correlation. As good as Mahomes is, how good will he be in year 6 when he is the highest paid qb in the league. He may be amazing, but will the Chiefs be as good as a team them.
Also count me in the camp that the Eagles, at least talent wise, are not in bad shape talent wise at that position.
Are we certain Wentz can’t return to the quarterback we saw a couple of years ago, or even the quarterback we saw the last 6 minutes of the first Giants game. Hurts isn’t a bad plan B option.
Many people doubt Jones is a franchise QB based on his play this year. They don't hate him or root for him to fail week in or week out to prove they are right. They are concerned about what they see.
I continue to be baffled by the confusion this causes.
Many people doubt Jones is a franchise QB based on his play this year. They don't hate him or root for him to fail week in or week out to prove they are right. They are concerned about what they see.
I continue to be baffled by the confusion this causes.
Exactly. I’d love it if Jones turns out to be a top QB. Great kid, and that would of course be the best thing for the franchise. But I think that looking at his body of work at both Duke and with the Jints there’s a huge risk that he’s not going to be, and that it’s likely we’ll be scrambling around like the Bears, back in the draft next year, or trying to fill the spot with expensive vets etc. If that happens, and we are still developing the position three years from now, that’s gonna kill the Judge regime along with it. I’ve never seen any successful biz just back and hope for the best and not be proactive. But I guess that’s what we’re gonna do. Hope we get lucky and he develops!
I agree with the premise that there is a baffling hard line of love/hate stated for Jones here.
But for me, I have also seen enough to think that there is nothing wrong with being optimistic that he could be the guy.
- Great first year minus the fumbles with a terrible OL and mediocre skill position players (until Barkley came back and started to return to for at the end of the year)
- Took a step back this year no doubt, but you have to factor A) sophomore slump B) the change of staff and scheme and lack of normal preseason C) a mostly terrible OL and mediocre skill position players.
- The fact that even with the second bullet above, the offense and Jones seemed to be hitting their stride in the Cincy game. Then he pulls his hamstring. That injury was huge for Jones and the Giants, and I really don't see much talk about it.
I have NO idea if Jones is the guy or will end up the guy. But color me optimistic.
Now I hope I am wrong and Jones becomes an elite QB. It can happen. But I am more hoping that happens than I am expecting it to happen.
Now I hope I am wrong and Jones becomes an elite QB. It can happen. But I am more hoping that happens than I am expecting it to happen.
except Jones has not shown he can be as good as Jared Goff.
I don't see a whole lot of difference between them.
Daniel Jones falls in the "not impressed so far" category
"He needs more weapons" "I saw him throw a nice ball" "He needs time to learn"
But what we have actually seen from Jones so far borders on incompetence.
He has either played like a gunslinger who turns the ball over at the worst rate in the league. Or he is a muzzled game manager that can barely move an offense. We have seen both Joneses.
Now I am not saying Jones can never be good. But I am saying it is an infinitesimally small chance that he will emerge as elite. And despite what many here say you pretty much need an elite or great QB to win a Super Bowl. And adding linebackers and tight ends to a team without a championship quality QB may seem like you are doing something, but you are not, it's a fools errand in today's NFL. It's like fiddling with all the systems of a car but the engine is shot.
The other thing I contend is that since Jones is unlikely to be the answer, it is time now to look for a different solution and to consider a prospect like Trey Lance if he is there for you. Time is the most precious resource we have. Not Jones' feelings. Not Jones' (seemingly limited) potential. Time. Spending another year "all-in" on Jones is a waste of that precious resource. We need to find back-up plans starting now in case Jones is a bust, and by bust I mean no better than top-15 to 20 - because that's not winning us a Super Bowl unless we hit the jackpot on all the other systems (OL, pass rush- secondary- run D) The fastest and surest way to championship contender status is to find an elite QB. Smart teams and smart coaches know this: Payton/Reid. Dopey organizations, like the Bears, stick with Mitchell Trubisky too long and then try to fix it by bringing in Nick Foles.
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I have seen enough to think Jones is better than Trubisky. Can't think anyone would argue that at this point.
I don't see a whole lot of difference between them.
Yeah... Maybe, before Trubisky's shoulder injury. I am not saying he is leaps and bounds better, but I would take Jones over Trubisky knowing what we know now. And actually that said, I wonder if a change of scenery and his shoulder being 100% doesn't give him a new lease on QB life.
"He needs more weapons" "I saw him throw a nice ball" "He needs time to learn"
But what we have actually seen from Jones so far borders on incompetence.
He has either played like a gunslinger who turns the ball over at the worst rate in the league. Or he is a muzzled game manager that can barely move an offense. We have seen both Joneses.
Now I am not saying Jones can never be good. But I am saying it is an infinitesimally small chance that he will emerge as elite. And despite what many here say you pretty much need an elite or great QB to win a Super Bowl. And adding linebackers and tight ends to a team without a championship quality QB may seem like you are doing something, but you are not, it's a fools errand in today's NFL. It's like fiddling with all the systems of a car but the engine is shot.
The other thing I contend is that since Jones is unlikely to be the answer, it is time now to look for a different solution and to consider a prospect like Trey Lance if he is there for you. Time is the most precious resource we have. Not Jones' feelings. Not Jones' (seemingly limited) potential. Time. Spending another year "all-in" on Jones is a waste of that precious resource. We need to find back-up plans starting now in case Jones is a bust, and by bust I mean no better than top-15 to 20 - because that's not winning us a Super Bowl unless we hit the jackpot on all the other systems (OL, pass rush- secondary- run D) The fastest and surest way to championship contender status is to find an elite QB. Smart teams and smart coaches know this: Payton/Reid. Dopey organizations, like the Bears, stick with Mitchell Trubisky too long and then try to fix it by bringing in Nick Foles.
You are correct. Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon totally elite. So is Joe Flacco. And Nick Foles. And Mark Rypien. And......
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is based entirely on hunches and wishful thinking:
"He needs more weapons" "I saw him throw a nice ball" "He needs time to learn"
But what we have actually seen from Jones so far borders on incompetence.
He has either played like a gunslinger who turns the ball over at the worst rate in the league. Or he is a muzzled game manager that can barely move an offense. We have seen both Joneses.
Now I am not saying Jones can never be good. But I am saying it is an infinitesimally small chance that he will emerge as elite. And despite what many here say you pretty much need an elite or great QB to win a Super Bowl. And adding linebackers and tight ends to a team without a championship quality QB may seem like you are doing something, but you are not, it's a fools errand in today's NFL. It's like fiddling with all the systems of a car but the engine is shot.
The other thing I contend is that since Jones is unlikely to be the answer, it is time now to look for a different solution and to consider a prospect like Trey Lance if he is there for you. Time is the most precious resource we have. Not Jones' feelings. Not Jones' (seemingly limited) potential. Time. Spending another year "all-in" on Jones is a waste of that precious resource. We need to find back-up plans starting now in case Jones is a bust, and by bust I mean no better than top-15 to 20 - because that's not winning us a Super Bowl unless we hit the jackpot on all the other systems (OL, pass rush- secondary- run D) The fastest and surest way to championship contender status is to find an elite QB. Smart teams and smart coaches know this: Payton/Reid. Dopey organizations, like the Bears, stick with Mitchell Trubisky too long and then try to fix it by bringing in Nick Foles.
You are correct. Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon totally elite. So is Joe Flacco. And Nick Foles. And Mark Rypien. And......
So you have to go back 40 years to make the point that non-elite QBs can win a Super Bowl? You want to take the gamble that your journeyman will be the one in ten years that does it? There are 8 elite QBs, or so, and they always challenge for the championship. Having one is like an invitation to the playoffs every year. And you would rather be one of the other 26 teams who are betting on a once in a decade bit of good fortune? Good luck with that.
This is really a no-brainer and it is amusing so many here are resisting the obvious truth.
It's not just QB ability. Scheme, how they fit in the offense, etc. etc. Is awfully important in determining just how "Elite" a QB is. That should be obvious.
In comment 15136945 Producer said:
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In comment 15136931 Producer said:
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is based entirely on hunches and wishful thinking:
"He needs more weapons" "I saw him throw a nice ball" "He needs time to learn"
But what we have actually seen from Jones so far borders on incompetence.
He has either played like a gunslinger who turns the ball over at the worst rate in the league. Or he is a muzzled game manager that can barely move an offense. We have seen both Joneses.
Now I am not saying Jones can never be good. But I am saying it is an infinitesimally small chance that he will emerge as elite. And despite what many here say you pretty much need an elite or great QB to win a Super Bowl. And adding linebackers and tight ends to a team without a championship quality QB may seem like you are doing something, but you are not, it's a fools errand in today's NFL. It's like fiddling with all the systems of a car but the engine is shot.
The other thing I contend is that since Jones is unlikely to be the answer, it is time now to look for a different solution and to consider a prospect like Trey Lance if he is there for you. Time is the most precious resource we have. Not Jones' feelings. Not Jones' (seemingly limited) potential. Time. Spending another year "all-in" on Jones is a waste of that precious resource. We need to find back-up plans starting now in case Jones is a bust, and by bust I mean no better than top-15 to 20 - because that's not winning us a Super Bowl unless we hit the jackpot on all the other systems (OL, pass rush- secondary- run D) The fastest and surest way to championship contender status is to find an elite QB. Smart teams and smart coaches know this: Payton/Reid. Dopey organizations, like the Bears, stick with Mitchell Trubisky too long and then try to fix it by bringing in Nick Foles.
You are correct. Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon totally elite. So is Joe Flacco. And Nick Foles. And Mark Rypien. And......
So you have to go back 40 years to make the point that non-elite QBs can win a Super Bowl? You want to take the gamble that your journeyman will be the one in ten years that does it? There are 8 elite QBs, or so, and they always challenge for the championship. Having one is like an invitation to the playoffs every year. And you would rather be one of the other 26 teams who are betting on a once in a decade bit of good fortune? Good luck with that.
It's not just QB ability. Scheme, how they fit in the offense, etc. etc. Is awfully important in determining just how "Elite" a QB is. That should be obvious.
great QBs are great QBs. We have seen Brady, Rodgers etc.. in all different situations, great weapons, few weapons, good Ds, poor Ds, they are always great.
"He needs more weapons" "I saw him throw a nice ball" "He needs time to learn"
But what we have actually seen from Jones so far borders on incompetence.
He has either played like a gunslinger who turns the ball over at the worst rate in the league. Or he is a muzzled game manager that can barely move an offense. We have seen both Joneses.
Now I am not saying Jones can never be good. But I am saying it is an infinitesimally small chance that he will emerge as elite. And despite what many here say you pretty much need an elite or great QB to win a Super Bowl. And adding linebackers and tight ends to a team without a championship quality QB may seem like you are doing something, but you are not, it's a fools errand in today's NFL. It's like fiddling with all the systems of a car but the engine is shot.
The other thing I contend is that since Jones is unlikely to be the answer, it is time now to look for a different solution and to consider a prospect like Trey Lance if he is there for you. Time is the most precious resource we have. Not Jones' feelings. Not Jones' (seemingly limited) potential. Time. Spending another year "all-in" on Jones is a waste of that precious resource. We need to find back-up plans starting now in case Jones is a bust, and by bust I mean no better than top-15 to 20 - because that's not winning us a Super Bowl unless we hit the jackpot on all the other systems (OL, pass rush- secondary- run D) The fastest and surest way to championship contender status is to find an elite QB. Smart teams and smart coaches know this: Payton/Reid. Dopey organizations, like the Bears, stick with Mitchell Trubisky too long and then try to fix it by bringing in Nick Foles.
You mention the Bears being a dopey organization, yet you want to double down on stupidity by wasting a premium 1st Round pick on a QB who is not better than Jones now and may never be better. When I look at tape of Lance I see horribly inconsistent mechanics that work at FCS level but don't translate to the NFL. It is like watching a Jay Cutler-type player. If we are going to move on from Jones it needs to be for an improvement like Trevor Lawrence or Deshaun Watson, not a lottery ticket. Chicago was wrong not for sticking with Trubisky too long, but wasting assets on someone who wasn't better than what they already have. The Giants are not a better team now or in the future by taking Lance at 11 versus using 11 in a trade for Watson or by drafting Chase, Smith, Pitts, or Surtain.
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Or you aren't going anywhere. It's not just the QB. And I'd argue that you don't always know who will be elite. There are factors. Is Tom Brady elite if he doesn't land with New England? Does anyone think Mahomes is elite if the Giants drafted him? How did Kurt Warner look after he left the Rams? OK he had a good year or two in AZ after he left us but that was a pretty damn good team.
It's not just QB ability. Scheme, how they fit in the offense, etc. etc. Is awfully important in determining just how "Elite" a QB is. That should be obvious.
great QBs are great QBs. We have seen Brady, Rodgers etc.. in all different situations, great weapons, few weapons, good Ds, poor Ds, they are always great.
Place Brady or Rodgers on the last 2 years Giants teams. How they looking? I'm sure they would look great as they are. So... how many more games we winning with those 2 elite QBs? You think we win a SB? A playoff game?
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In comment 15137001 Johnny5 said:
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Or you aren't going anywhere. It's not just the QB. And I'd argue that you don't always know who will be elite. There are factors. Is Tom Brady elite if he doesn't land with New England? Does anyone think Mahomes is elite if the Giants drafted him? How did Kurt Warner look after he left the Rams? OK he had a good year or two in AZ after he left us but that was a pretty damn good team.
It's not just QB ability. Scheme, how they fit in the offense, etc. etc. Is awfully important in determining just how "Elite" a QB is. That should be obvious.
great QBs are great QBs. We have seen Brady, Rodgers etc.. in all different situations, great weapons, few weapons, good Ds, poor Ds, they are always great.
Place Brady or Rodgers on the last 2 years Giants teams. How they looking? I'm sure they would look great as they are. So... how many more games we winning with those 2 elite QBs? You think we win a SB? A playoff game?
You don't know that to be false.
Is there anything fundamentally different between Sterling Shepard and Davante Adams? Between Allen Lazard and Darius Slayton? Between Robert Tonyan and Evan Engram? Is Aaron Jones better in any meaningful way even over Gallman (let alone Barkley) other than the respect that a defense has to pay to Rodgers himself?
Do you really think if you swapped skill position players with the Packers that Jones would replicate Rodgers' stats or vice versa?
Why is it so difficult for us to acknowledge that the QB that DG picked just doesn't stack up (yet, maybe ever) with the elite class of the NFL?
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In comment 15137038 Producer said:
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In comment 15137001 Johnny5 said:
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Or you aren't going anywhere. It's not just the QB. And I'd argue that you don't always know who will be elite. There are factors. Is Tom Brady elite if he doesn't land with New England? Does anyone think Mahomes is elite if the Giants drafted him? How did Kurt Warner look after he left the Rams? OK he had a good year or two in AZ after he left us but that was a pretty damn good team.
It's not just QB ability. Scheme, how they fit in the offense, etc. etc. Is awfully important in determining just how "Elite" a QB is. That should be obvious.
great QBs are great QBs. We have seen Brady, Rodgers etc.. in all different situations, great weapons, few weapons, good Ds, poor Ds, they are always great.
Place Brady or Rodgers on the last 2 years Giants teams. How they looking? I'm sure they would look great as they are. So... how many more games we winning with those 2 elite QBs? You think we win a SB? A playoff game?
You don't know that to be false.
Is there anything fundamentally different between Sterling Shepard and Davante Adams? Between Allen Lazard and Darius Slayton? Between Robert Tonyan and Evan Engram? Is Aaron Jones better in any meaningful way even over Gallman (let alone Barkley) other than the respect that a defense has to pay to Rodgers himself?
Do you really think if you swapped skill position players with the Packers that Jones would replicate Rodgers' stats or vice versa?
Why is it so difficult for us to acknowledge that the QB that DG picked just doesn't stack up (yet, maybe ever) with the elite class of the NFL?
Dunk you must not have read the rest of my posts. I think for the most part we are on the same page (you and I anyway) I said I'm optimistic about Jones elevating his play for us that's really all. My point echoes yours, we really don't know how Rodgers or Brady would have done on the Giants. If I had to guess though, I would think maybe we win 2/3 more games with either one... and Brady probably gets injured behind this OL in the 1st half of the year. I can tell you they both had better OL play this year. And I don't think we can argue Brady at least has much better OL skill position players on Tampa.
Many people doubt Jones is a franchise QB based on his play this year. They don't hate him or root for him to fail week in or week out to prove they are right. They are concerned about what they see.
I continue to be baffled by the confusion this causes.
Jones might turn things around, I hope he does. I saw real regression in his play in 2020 and even the end of the year left me unconvinced. I will not whine like a little bitch every time he throws a bad pass in 2021 though. We should give the kid ALL of year 3 to see if he has it. No excuses though, don't care who gets hurt or who he is throwing to. He needs to show some magic.
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In no particular order, Brady, Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers, Allen, Watson, Jackson and take your pick between Herbert, Murray.