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NFT: Steven Matz traded to Blue Jays

CMicks3110 : 1/27/2021 9:34 pm
.
I wish him well  
Dr. D : 1/27/2021 9:39 pm : link
Would be shocked if we got much for him
we got got someone  
Ron Johnson : 1/27/2021 9:41 pm : link
to take his salary. We win.
.  
Giantsfan79 : 1/27/2021 9:45 pm : link
Quote:
Robert Murray
@ByRobertMurray
·
10m
Source: Blue Jays acquiring Steven Matz from Mets. Josh Winckowski among players going to Mets.
Per mlbtraderumors:  
KDavies : 1/27/2021 9:46 pm : link
Three right-handed pitchers will head back to New York in the arrangement: Josh Winckowski, Sean Reid-Foley, and Yennsy Diaz. (Via Murray, on Twitter, and Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca, also via Twitter).
Here's hoping  
Gmanfandan : 1/27/2021 9:48 pm : link
The 5.1 million goes towards extending Noah and not signing Bauer - but not holding my breath.
Does this mean we are handing the 4th and 5th starter spots  
BigBlueNH : 1/27/2021 9:49 pm : link
to Peterson and Lucchesi? Is there anyone on the roster other than Oswalt who might challenge? If one of those guys go down or sucks, are we gonna be running out hot garbage every 5th day? Not a huge fan of Matz, but aren't we really thin at SP til Thor comes back?
Looks pretty decent  
KDavies : 1/27/2021 9:52 pm : link
Clear his salary. All three pitchers they got are starters. Nothing special, but Diaz and Reid-Foley could give them some minor league SP depth they have been lacking. Winckowski is a bit younger
RE: Does this mean we are handing the 4th and 5th starter spots  
KDavies : 1/27/2021 9:57 pm : link
In comment 15136516 BigBlueNH said:
Quote:
to Peterson and Lucchesi? Is there anyone on the roster other than Oswalt who might challenge? If one of those guys go down or sucks, are we gonna be running out hot garbage every 5th day? Not a huge fan of Matz, but aren't we really thin at SP til Thor comes back?


I would expect they sign another SP or two to a minor league deal, and one to a MLB deal
Looks like a setup for Bauer to me  
ZGiants98 : 1/27/2021 10:03 pm : link
Mets roughly 31 million under the LT.
RE: Looks like a setup for Bauer to me  
KDavies : 1/27/2021 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15136530 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Mets roughly 31 million under the LT.


Agreed. As does going cheap on the bullpen lefty
FG (logenhagen) recently updated their top 39 in Toronto's system.  
Eric on Li : 1/27/2021 10:08 pm : link
obviously nothing all that exciting but that's to be expected for Matz. Sounds like 3 live arms at least, hopefully they turn out better than reliever fest 2018.

#33 Yennsy Diaz:
Quote:
Diaz has projected as a single-inning middle reliever for quite some time, even though he had been developed as a starter throughout his entire minor league career. He held mid-90s velocity deep into games as a minor league starter and sat 94-98 during a horrendous single-game debut in 2019, seemingly unable to time his arm swing and find a consistent release point during a disastrous inning against the Orioles. That wasn’t sufficient justification to slide Diaz’s FV down on its own, but then he missed all of 2020 with a severe lat strain and only began pitching in games again for Estrellas Orientales in the Dominican Winter League where he again sat in the mid-90s (94-97 according to a source). The development of Diaz in the rotation improved his changeup enough that it became a sinking/tailing low-90s weapon and his best secondary pitch. He’s going to bully hitters with velocity and that changeup, and command consistency will dictate whether it’s in an up/down capacity or whether Diaz stays on the big league roster consistently. (Injury rehab)


in their depth arms category:

Quote:
Winckowski has a chance to pop in 2021 because he was pitching hurt in 2019 and still got guys out. He looked rusty during instructs but was also up to 97 and added a new splitter to an already decent slider.


Sean Reid-Foley no longer had prospect status but here's his write-up from 2019 when he was actually in their top 10:

6. Sean Reid-Foley, RHP
Quote:
Reid-Foley has been a similar pitcher from his junior year of high school all the way to his fifth year of pro ball in 2018. His arm action and delivery are a little stiff, and his command isn’t quite enough to be a traditional starter, but he’s stayed healthy and flashes two plus pitches with knowledge of the right way to sequence them, if not always execute them flawlessly. The Jays will continue to run him out there as a starter — he made 31 starts and threw 163 innings last season across three levels — but most agree this is more of a multi-inning or high-leverage reliever, as opposed to a traditional starter. The pure stuff would fit any role on a staff, but the quality of the strikes (his command) is the issue, rather than the amount of strikes (his control), which was evident from his 5.13 ERA in his major league debut in 2018.


Very curious to see what they are clearing out $ for...
here's a link to the  
Eric on Li : 1/27/2021 10:09 pm : link
FG article.
Top 39 Prospects: Toronto Blue Jays - ( New Window )
Wonder where if not Bauer, not linked to many targets left out there  
Eric on Li : 1/27/2021 10:11 pm : link
Jon Heyman @JonHeyman
2m
Mets’ focus at moment is believed elsewhere but Matz deal frees up a bit of cash for a potential Bauer pursuit
LA times says Angels are out on Bauer  
Eric on Li : 1/27/2021 10:13 pm : link
interesting turn of events...
Angels aren’t in on Trevor Bauer but still expect to beef up starting rotation - ( New Window )
Makes me reflect on how fragile/fleeting pitching is  
Chris684 : 1/27/2021 10:15 pm : link
Another member of the staff that started building between 2013-15 is now gone.

Harvey had his success but it was brief.
Matz never amounted to anything.
Wheeler was injured, then good, now gone.
Thor has dealt with several injuries.

deGrom has been the only consistently dominant pitcher so far. I'm hoping Thor comes back, pitches awesome and we lock him up.
for those who can't read the LA Times article, enjoy this excerpt  
Eric on Li : 1/27/2021 10:16 pm : link
Quote:
Another disconnect between Bauer and the Angels is the coaching staff. Bauer previously worked with current Angels pitching coach Mickey Callaway while in Cleveland from 2013 to 2017. They did not get along. Bauer has long taken a progressive approach to pitching; he was an early adopter of such techniques as throwing weighted balls, long-tossing and utilizing cameras to improve pitches. Callaway’s style is more traditional; he uses analytical tools sparingly. Last year, he said he prefers to use them “to make a little nudge.”

Bauer publicly alluded to tension between them in a Sports Illustrated cover story that ran in 2019.

“I’m going to try to find every single way to do better and I’ve probably researched it more than you have,” Bauer said in reference to a disagreement over pitch usage he had with Callaway. “Don’t tell me what I do and don’t know without some good f—ing data behind it.”

The relationship between Bauer and Callaway is believed to be eroded beyond repair, according to a person with knowledge of Bauer’s current negotiations.


RE: Wonder where if not Bauer, not linked to many targets left out there  
Chris684 : 1/27/2021 10:16 pm : link
In comment 15136538 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Jon Heyman @JonHeyman
2m
Mets’ focus at moment is believed elsewhere but Matz deal frees up a bit of cash for a potential Bauer pursuit


JBJ and then Bauer?
We were all ready to cut Matz in ST  
ZGiants98 : 1/27/2021 10:24 pm : link
just to clear 4/5ths of his contract. Sandy did way better here.
If there is no DH  
ZGiants98 : 1/27/2021 10:26 pm : link
Then I dont really want JBJ. Dom and Nimmo need to start in LF and CF and we just need to bite the bullet. Back CF up with somebody like Marisnick, but Nimmo and Dom have to be in the lineup every day and their combined WAR will rival the best LF/CF combos in the game anyway. They aren't going to hurt us.

If there is a DH, give me JBJ all day.
If Mets miss Bauer  
CMicks3110 : 1/27/2021 10:27 pm : link
he certainly is going Dodgers. Which means they probably aren't signing Turner. So the alternative to Bauer would probably be Turner, Bradley, and maybe Trevor Rosenthal.
RE: If there is no DH  
moze1021 : 1/27/2021 10:29 pm : link
In comment 15136552 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Then I dont really want JBJ. Dom and Nimmo need to start in LF and CF and we just need to bite the bullet. Back CF up with somebody like Marisnick, but Nimmo and Dom have to be in the lineup every day and their combined WAR will rival the best LF/CF combos in the game anyway. They aren't going to hurt us.

If there is a DH, give me JBJ all day.


Yes
RE: If Mets miss Bauer  
ZGiants98 : 1/27/2021 10:43 pm : link
In comment 15136554 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
he certainly is going Dodgers. Which means they probably aren't signing Turner. So the alternative to Bauer would probably be Turner, Bradley, and maybe Trevor Rosenthal.


Yeah same. Turner, Bradley, and JBJ is a nice fallback to Bauer.

Think Bauer does probably push the needle furthest though.

And the DH thing is still bothering me. If there is no DH, JBJ still doesn't really fit.
Meant  
ZGiants98 : 1/27/2021 10:44 pm : link
Turner, Bradley, and Rosenthal.
RE: for those who can't read the LA Times article, enjoy this excerpt  
MetsAreBack : 1/27/2021 11:05 pm : link
In comment 15136544 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


Another disconnect between Bauer and the Angels is the coaching staff. Bauer previously worked with current Angels pitching coach Mickey Callaway while in Cleveland from 2013 to 2017. They did not get along. Bauer has long taken a progressive approach to pitching; he was an early adopter of such techniques as throwing weighted balls, long-tossing and utilizing cameras to improve pitches. Callaway’s style is more traditional; he uses analytical tools sparingly. Last year, he said he prefers to use them “to make a little nudge.”

Bauer publicly alluded to tension between them in a Sports Illustrated cover story that ran in 2019.

“I’m going to try to find every single way to do better and I’ve probably researched it more than you have,” Bauer said in reference to a disagreement over pitch usage he had with Callaway. “Don’t tell me what I do and don’t know without some good f—ing data behind it.”

The relationship between Bauer and Callaway is believed to be eroded beyond repair, according to a person with knowledge of Bauer’s current negotiations.




I mean I have no idea if that article Is fair or not .... but I’ll take the guy using science and data over the guy managing with his gut and ‘tradition’.... every day and Twice on Sunday.
we saw enough of Callaway's gut  
Eric on Li : 1/27/2021 11:08 pm : link
to know Bauer is probably right to steer clear.
Bauer has always had great stuff  
Vanzetti : 1/28/2021 12:06 am : link
Picked third in the draft. But he did not have good control his first. Purple of seasons.

If he has truly gained control, he is an Ace. I think it is a great gamble by Mets. Like buy GameStop or AMC
I have brought this up several times but there is  
bhill410 : 1/28/2021 6:12 am : link
A fascinating article on baurer and his success correlating to his spin rate. The rub is that his spin rate - according to him - only gets to those levels when he uses a foreign substance. Something that he has been very outspoken about and alleges (which is corroborated) that 70% of pitchers use. My fear is that if he gets long term security and stops using a foreign substance then we are back to good not great baurer.
I think he is more likely...  
Italianju : 1/28/2021 7:51 am : link
a good pitcher over his contract and not a great one. Like i dont think he is going to be competing for more cy youngs. Not that there isnt huge value in just a "good" pitcher, but i dont think id want to be paying him 30 mill per over 4-5 years. 30 mill for 2 years, sure. 25 mill for 4 yeah prolly, but 30 or more for 4-5 seems way too risky. Especially with all the upcoming guys we have to resign.
Remember the big 5?  
pjcas18 : 1/28/2021 8:51 am : link
or whatever they were called?

Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Matz and deGrom. How many actual turns through the entire rotation did those 5 even make?

deGrom the latest round pick and only one not in the 1st or 2nd round and the most successful.

Only Syndergaard and deGrom remain.

Mets or Mets media need to stop "naming" their rotations, that was the best group of pitching prospects since the "three amigos" - Izzy, Pulse and Wilson.

that was a disaster.
RE: Remember the big 5?  
jpkmets : 1/28/2021 8:55 am : link
In comment 15136680 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
or whatever they were called?

Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Matz and deGrom. How many actual turns through the entire rotation did those 5 even make?

deGrom the latest round pick and only one not in the 1st or 2nd round and the most successful.

Only Syndergaard and deGrom remain.

Mets or Mets media need to stop "naming" their rotations, that was the best group of pitching prospects since the "three amigos" - Izzy, Pulse and Wilson.

that was a disaster.


I still have my Generation K poster somewhere!
the big 5 has turned out pretty damn good  
KDavies : 1/28/2021 8:58 am : link
Wheeler should have been re-signed. Matz is a #5 starter. Whatever. deGrom is a two-time Cy Young winner. Thor has been good. 1 turning out to be a great pitcher, 2 very good pitchers, 1 disappointment in Matz, and one in Harvey whose career was completely marred by injury. I'll take that any day.
The big 5 have been  
CMicks3110 : 1/28/2021 8:59 am : link
Infinitely more successful than generation K.
RE: the big 5 has turned out pretty damn good  
pjcas18 : 1/28/2021 9:01 am : link
In comment 15136689 KDavies said:
Quote:
Wheeler should have been re-signed. Matz is a #5 starter. Whatever. deGrom is a two-time Cy Young winner. Thor has been good. 1 turning out to be a great pitcher, 2 very good pitchers, 1 disappointment in Matz, and one in Harvey whose career was completely marred by injury. I'll take that any day.


Agree, only from memory I can't recall them actually being in a 5-man rotation together very long.

I think when Wheeler came back or Harvey came back (who can keep track) they had a 6-man rotation for a while, then that became a media blow up.

how many turns through a 5-man rotation do you think they made? 6 or 7? More? Definitely doesn't seem like a lot.
RE: RE: Remember the big 5?  
pjcas18 : 1/28/2021 9:01 am : link
In comment 15136686 jpkmets said:
Quote:
In comment 15136680 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


or whatever they were called?

Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Matz and deGrom. How many actual turns through the entire rotation did those 5 even make?

deGrom the latest round pick and only one not in the 1st or 2nd round and the most successful.

Only Syndergaard and deGrom remain.

Mets or Mets media need to stop "naming" their rotations, that was the best group of pitching prospects since the "three amigos" - Izzy, Pulse and Wilson.

that was a disaster.



I still have my Generation K poster somewhere!

That's right, generation K. lol. Why did I think three amigos? Was there a three amigos?
Shame about Matz  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/28/2021 9:02 am : link
I wonder why he just couldn't put it together.
At least the Wheeler comp pick helped us complete the Lindor trade  
CMicks3110 : 1/28/2021 9:10 am : link
Quite the lineage there—Beltran to Wheeler (Isaiah Greene) to Lindor
RE: Remember the big 5?  
JB_in_DC : 1/28/2021 9:53 am : link
In comment 15136680 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
How many actual turns through the entire rotation did those 5 even make?


I think it was just a single turn.
RE: RE: for those who can't read the LA Times article, enjoy this excerpt  
Section331 : 1/28/2021 9:56 am : link
In comment 15136579 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:

I mean I have no idea if that article Is fair or not .... but I’ll take the guy using science and data over the guy managing with his gut and ‘tradition’.... every day and Twice on Sunday.


Definitely agree. I'm pretty sure Bauer can be a real dick, but I think he comes out looking better here.

As for Matz, I wish him luck. It wasn't going to happen here, maybe pitching so close to home was too much pressure. And Z is right, Sandy (and Zack Scott) did a great job getting a return.

I have to think they have their crosshairs squarely on Bauer or this rotation is going to be pretty rough, at least until Noah comes back.
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