Has recent NYG performance made you appreciate Fassel more?

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Maybe a bit, but I always liked Fassel and thought he was a good coach. I always liked Accorsi too.

I haven't been one of those guys who incessantly bitch about the franchise until recently. :)

Well, compared to late it looks a golden era of Giants football. The Fassel teams were maddening...always played up to their competition & then always seemingly played down to their level of competition.

And some of those playoff losses...UFB. Minny & then 1/5/03...

It always bothered me how Fassel calmly left the field after the Junkin disaster, as if he was coming off the 18th hole.

all "look at me".

Minnesota playoff game - players fighting each other on the sideline a Fassel hallmark.

And of course the San Francisco meltdown.

It's well reported what players thought of their super bowl preparation.

at a top tier. And no, I'm not one of those who think we would have beaten Tampa if we had gotten out of SF with a win.

1. I've always felt that their tenure here was a lot of fun for not ultimately winning a title.

2. Maybe it's because I'm a sucker for the month of December, the holidays and that magical feeling when good Giants football lines up with Christmas but I enjoyed Decembers in the Fassel era.

3. Generally very successful vs. Eagles will always win over my heart.

4. I know Amani and some of the guys on the 2000 roster still gripe about that Super Bowl, and I get it, it was a shitshow, but as time has gone on I think it's been easier to accept the 2000 Ravens defense's place in NFL history. We lost to one of the truly historic sides of the football of all time that day. It happens. I don't see how we would have won that day.

5. 41-0 is a historic day in the history of the NYG franchise. It is part of our impressive 5-0 record in conference title games even if we went on to lose the big one.

6. Generally under Fassel/Payton our offensive attack was ballsy and creative and I think they did some things early on with Shockey that caught on around the league with the modern NFL TE.

We know what the bad was. The special teams disasters, the playoff meltdowns, the rumors of country club like training camps, but I think the Fassel era was both really fun and reasonably successful. Super Bowl appearances, let alone wins, don't grow on trees.

2000 NFC Champion game vs MN will always be one of my favorites.

And I was living in Rochester, MN at the time doing medical residency at the Mayo clinic so it was even more satisfying. Guess who was the douche bag New Yorker gloating the next morning.

That was a really fun era with some scrappy teams. I understood when it was time for both to go, and haven’t thought much about it since then.

Short answer, no.

refreshing after he who shall not be named and Dan reeves with his new York broncos team. I never looked at fassel like reeves (who i still can't forgive for cutting pepper johnson) and mcadoo. Fassel ran his course and it was time to move on. I don't appreciate him any more or less now.

but I do miss what a more talented roster looked like...

Undisciplined, inconsistent teams that produced tons of penalties and constantly played down to the level of their opponent. Alot of talking, not much delivering. I was done after the SF meltdown, adios.

is SO MUCH better than the last 7 years have been.

I have even said so here. I'd kill for 3 playoff appearances over a 7 year stretch including some playoff wins.

And then following that run i'd probably jump into a volcano. But it beats this shit.

In comment 15150010 JonC said:

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Undisciplined, inconsistent teams that produced tons of penalties and constantly played down to the level of their opponent. Alot of talking, not much delivering. I was done after the SF meltdown, adios.

So accurate. I was done after the early season loss to Dallas in 2003. But that playoff game....yikes that was so painful.

Not a fan of old Jimmy.

so many of you are thumbing your noses at what Fassel accomplished in his 7 year run. They were in the hunt every year except the last one and those years produced a lot of fun memories.

Since the Giants/Pats SB in 2012 the only great memory I can muster is the OBJ one handed catch...in a game that they lost.

Absolutely nothing of note or significance has happened with this franchise since February 5th 2012.

9 years this week...

but I think he gets more crap than he deserves here. Parcells and TC were certainly better coaches, but who else was better in modern NYG history?

I think he got a bit of a raw deal in 2003, that team had more injuries than any I can recall, but it probably was time to move on.

But compared to today, that was definitely an underappreciated era of Giants football. I think it largely gets overshadowed because of 2005-2012 success that followed, with some big names including a hall of fame qb and coach.

The late 90's/early 2000s teams had talent and some fun moments. Even Kerry Collins was probably in the top 10-12 qb range from 2000-2003.

I never thought the Giants lost games because of his coaching but they sure never won games because of his coaching.

But the biggest reason I don't look back fondly on Fassel is I always got the sense that while being good at initial game-planning, he sucked at adjusting to what was working for the other team, and at times his play-calling was mind-numbing dumb and costly.

In comment 15150051 Samiam said:

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I never thought the Giants lost games because of his coaching but they sure never won games because of his coaching.

The Fassel era was the only one where even after we won a game I still felt uneasy like we didn't or shouldn't have
I'm pretty sure I got an anxiety disorder from watching those teams

In comment 15150039 lax counsel said:

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But compared to today, that was definitely an underappreciated era of Giants football. I think it largely gets overshadowed because of 2005-2012 success that followed, with some big names including a hall of fame qb and coach. The late 90's/early 2000s teams had talent and some fun moments. Even Kerry Collins was probably in the top 10-12 qb range from 2000-2003.

The 2002 squad is one of my all time favorites....Collins, Tiki, Toomer, Shockey, Strahan, Armstead, Sehorn (on his last legs so to speak). They were very fun to watch late into that year up until the Playoff Game That Shalt Not Be Mentioned

There were fun moments, but those teams had a knack for crushing errors at the wrong time. And of course, the SB loss paints the whole period.

This current era of terrible football makes me appreciate Eli more than anyone. If not for him...wow.

Fassel looked pretty good compared to who he followed, but he was not able to get the job done, had some off-the-job issues that just could not be overlooked, and really should not have been hired.

Of course, you can say that about both of the head coaches he followed and at least one who has been here since.

For every great moment with a Fassel coached team, there were multiple downers like starting a rookie Guard at OLT against one of the best DLs in the league on national TV - with predictable results, and the Super Bowl beat-down.

Gave the Giants a sense of competitiveness after the 90s black hole.

It was his time to go, and Coughlin was a superior coach who got us to the top of the mountain twice, but there were good memories made in the Fassel era.

I think so.

Do I like him better than Judge, McAdoo and Shurmur?

Yes.

Do I like him better than Coughlin?

No.

When the Giants did well under Fassel, they had my adrenaline going, but man could they bring you down just as quickly.

Oh yeah. He did well against the Eagles.

Extra credit.

In comment 15150029 GGGGmen said:

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so many of you are thumbing your noses at what Fassel accomplished in his 7 year run. They were in the hunt every year except the last one and those years produced a lot of fun memories. Since the Giants/Pats SB in 2012 the only great memory I can muster is the OBJ one handed catch...in a game that they lost. Absolutely nothing of note or significance has happened with this franchise since February 5th 2012. 9 years this week...

Agree with this post.

Was the second most out-matched team in the history of the Super Bowl next to SB XX (Bears vs Pats) - It was like running into one of these ...

The 2002 team was one of my favorites until the heartbreaking SF loss. That offense was cooking with gas.

And Fassel was a genuinely likeable guy. I like Judge, but I don't love the asshole/tough-guy shtick you see from him, Rhule, and others.

I'm still somewhat befuddled how Fassel never got another gig. I know his time in Baltimore didn't help, but even Norv Turner got another HC shot after Washington/Oakland. I guess there is some true to the rumors Mara let would be suitors know that JF was no monk.

In comment 15150126 Manny in CA said:

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Was the second most out-matched team in the history of the Super Bowl next to SB XX (Bears vs Pats) - It was like running into one of these ...

If only we had been able to play the Raiders in that SB instead of the freakin' Ravens

In comment 15150186 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I'm still somewhat befuddled how Fassel never got another gig. I know his time in Baltimore didn't help, but even Norv Turner got another HC shot after Washington/Oakland. I guess there is some true to the rumors Mara let would be suitors know that JF was no monk.

Well he did coach the Las Vegas Locomotives to a championship in the UFL ten years ago for whatever that was worth

Hahaha. True.

In comment 15150186 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I'm still somewhat befuddled how Fassel never got another gig. I know his time in Baltimore didn't help, but even Norv Turner got another HC shot after Washington/Oakland. I guess there is some true to the rumors Mara let would be suitors know that JF was no monk.

Fassel is a lot better than some of the stiffs out there.

He got us to a Super Bowl and we beat Dallas and the Eagles more frequently.

they drafted horribly back then

In comment 15150222 Simms11 said:

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He got us to a Super Bowl and we beat Dallas and the Eagles more frequently.

We beat Philly nine times in a row between '97-'00 under Fassel. Those were the days...

He wasn't a great head coach but his record makes him better than a lot of coaches and a lot of retreads. He made a winner out of Kent Graham, resurrected Kerry Collins and nurtured two successful coaches in Payton and Fox. Guys like Rex got a second chance and Fassel is more successful than him or any other Jet coach since 69. Before Accorsi won in 2007, the argument for not firing him was that he built the 2000 team. Fassel didn't get that same luxury (and yes much of it was his fault).

For all the off-the-field stuff, that's the Mara holier than thou crap. Sean Payton has some equally crushing losses and equally scandalous off-the-field stories. One dumb Peyton Manning pass made the difference.

In comment 15150062 jnoble said:

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In comment 15150051 Samiam said: Quote: I never thought the Giants lost games because of his coaching but they sure never won games because of his coaching. The Fassel era was the only one where even after we won a game I still felt uneasy like we didn't or shouldn't have I'm pretty sure I got an anxiety disorder from watching those teams

Mcadoo 's first year. Even he said they were lucky to win 11 games.

I appreciate Fassel the same.

The main problem for most of the years since 2012, other than '17 -19, hasn't been coaching, imo. Even '17-19 would've been a lot better if the roster wasn't so weak.

If anything, recent performance makes me appreciate Ernie Accorsi more.

I'm not a DG hater. I know he's made mistakes, but he inherited a horrible roster and tried to compete while rebuilding (which I believe may have led to some of the mistakes, but I can't blame him because I also wanted to compete while rebuilding).

TC and Eli's last years suffered because of a shitty roster put together by Reese, Ross and Co. (probably with some input from TC). A horrendous job by Reese, et al. his last 7-8 years.

Fassel was as bad as McAdoo

Can make a mediocre coach look very good. Fassel was not much different than Shurmur a good but not great offensive mind who wasn't an amazing Head coach or leader. The huge difference was he had 2 guys that were absolutely excellent coordinators in Fox and Payton for a number of years.

MacAdoo had Spags and he was the only reason we went 11-5. The offense was absolute doo-doo under Mac. If Shurmur had that same defense led by Spags we may have been a lot more dangerous that year.

I had to live through the Fassel years -- there were far too many epic embarrassments --

What about the idea of Fassel taking over Offensive play calling from Sean Payton -- how brilliant was that?

What about being totally outclassed in the Super Bowl? I mean totally.

Fassel was frikken clueless, and his fingerprints were all over the Giants failures during his rein.

against us -- one of the worst Giants games I've ever watched ever, even more embarrassing than the Super Bowl loss to Baltimore

In comment 15150940 Beer Man said:

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Fassel was as bad as McAdoo

That's absurd. Not even close. McAdoo was a monumental failure. He lost the team after 16 games. It took Fassel 7 years to lose the team.

considering the stretch of awfulness we've been enduring, but let's not go crazy about it. Fassel was supposed to be an offensive coach, yet I don't think we finished with an above average offense a single time with him at the helm.

In comment 15151291 djm said:

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In comment 15150940 Beer Man said: Quote: Fassel was as bad as McAdoo That's absurd. Not even close. McAdoo was a monumental failure. He lost the team after 16 games. It took Fassel 7 years to lose the team.

And how many coaching offers has Fassel received since be jettisoned by the Giants?

Fassel got to a Super Bowl. McAdoo didn't even come close. I'm far from a JF fan, but comparing him to McAdoo is laughable. I think JF didn't get another head coaching job because of his time in Baltimore, the rumors that he wasn't exactly a saint or a hard worker, & for a myriad of reasons we don't know. Maybe he interviewed poorly? We don't know. He came close to getting Washington job twice before they hired Gibbs & then the second time after a blah reaction from the fanbase.

In comment 15157453 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Fassel got to a Super Bowl. McAdoo didn't even come close. I'm far from a JF fan, but comparing him to McAdoo is laughable. I think JF didn't get another head coaching job because of his time in Baltimore, the rumors that he wasn't exactly a saint or a hard worker, & for a myriad of reasons we don't know. Maybe he interviewed poorly? We don't know. He came close to getting Washington job twice before they hired Gibbs & then the second time after a blah reaction from the fanbase.

And yet here we are 20 years later and still no team wants the "Great Jim Fassel", LOL!

'The Great Jim Fassel?' Fassel was an alright coach, McAdoo was a disaster who didn't even make it through his second season. There's no comparison between the two.

and never coached them up to their potential. He had guys like Tiki and Toomer in their prime. I remember in Tiki's first 2 years on offense he was being used almost exclusively as a change of pace/3rd down back even though he looked to be the most talented guy on the field when he played.
Collins, Strahan, Armstead, Sehorn...talent got those teams to the playoffs and SB...not Fassel. I think his history post-Giants speaks for itself.