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Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan · 2h WR Da'Mari Scott and DB Shakial Taylor were waived by the Giants. Both players had opted out this season. Wouldn't be surprised if CB Sam Beal is next. |
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Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan Stunned if he’s back. Hasn’t done much to impress on the field and behind the scenes. Quote Tweet Moose and Fury Podcast @NYGpodcast · 2h Replying to @JordanRaanan This would make zero sense. Scott and Taylor were both street FA’s. We spent a 3rd rounder on Beal, he’s 24 years old and plays a position that’s a huge need |
Not sure there’s a nexus there, but sure, if true, he needs to be moved on from us.
Given that he's dressed for six games in three years, I'd say that seems like a safe assumption.
I would normally agree, but perhaps they already know his mindset is such that he won't do the work required between now and then to even be ready for camp. He'd also be taking reps from other players.
The COVID opt out was weird. Listen, it was his call, but he is what, 23 or 24? I obviously don't know his family dynamics, but it seemed odd in the moment.
Whomever spoke up for Beal in the evaluation process should be required to make Starbuck runs for the next year.
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has been that he just doesn't want to be a professional football player. Not so much of a headcase like Eli Apple or Deandre Baker, but Beal just never had his heart in it. It's an individual decision to opt out for Covid but his decision to opt out seemed more fell in line with his overall desire that he really doesn't want to play.
The COVID opt out was weird. Listen, it was his call, but he is what, 23 or 24? I obviously don't know his family dynamics, but it seemed odd in the moment.
I always assumed that he opted out for reasons similar to why Solder did, but I admit I had no independent knowledge of that.
Brutal. At least we have a coach who has no problem cutting guys like Beal now. Let’s hope there’s better influence over the draft too
Missing on one pick is no sin. Everyone has misses. There just aren't enough hits.
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guys have no idea how the draft works. Ripping on DG for missing on some random 3rd rnd pick.
Missing on one pick is no sin. Everyone has misses. There just aren't enough hits.
I think a bigger problem is that he doesn't navigate the draft to maximize the number of picks. More picks is more lotto tickets that can hit. He never trades back.
Forfeited the pick on a jag.
But what does that mean exactly...Draft Hit?
Gettleman inherited a very weak roster and he has picked at the top of the Draft for 3 years straight. Just finding starters or guys that get significant playing time doesn't mean a Draft Hit as they could have just replaced poor starters and they themselves may be only minimal upgrades.
The Giants still have one of the weakest rosters in the league and likely need substantial upgrades at 4-5 positions on the Offense and another 3-4 on the Defense.
But will let you explain and display how he is at least league average.
anyone can play that game - remember Adrian Klemm, JR Redmond, Greg Randall, Dave Stalchelski, Jeff Marriott, Antwan Harris?
Those are the guys the Patriots drafted in 2000 before Brady. 48 starts for their careers for the Patriots among six guys. Brady was the best draft pick ever. The rest of those guys pretty much stunk.
Luck or skill?
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You expect at least a competent back up from a 3rd round pick. The guy was hurt and then sucked when he came back. Waste of a pick.
It was a high 3rd too. We were number 2 on the priority wire since we were coming off a shit season. I know people hate these comparisons but it was as close as it gets to a second round pick. We weren't the only team to offer our third but our third was worth more than the others.
Not to mention that for intents and purposes, Beal was VERY highly regarded. Great size, great tackler, was good at locating the ball. Some even said that jad he been academically eligible to return to school, he would have been a possible 1st rounder.
There are some things you just can't predict. I guess you could say that "any football player that cant remain academically eligible to keep playing football is a red flag" but that would be a stretch. This was not like taking Chris Henry or Vontaze Burfict. Beall actually looked more than just solid in the games he played for us. The opt out was very puzzling. Sometimes players just stop being football players.
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Selected 6 picks after our forfeited selection: Terry McClaurin and Chase Winovich.
anyone can play that game - remember Adrian Klemm, JR Redmond, Greg Randall, Dave Stalchelski, Jeff Marriott, Antwan Harris?
Those are the guys the Patriots drafted in 2000 before Brady. 48 starts for their careers for the Patriots among six guys. Brady was the best draft pick ever. The rest of those guys pretty much stunk.
Luck or skill?
I remember Redmond (RB?) and Klemm (TE?)! LOL
That is simply not true. He was more than competent.
Davis Webb, D Thomson, O odighizuwa, Bromley, D Moore, J Hosley, J. Jernigan, Chad Jones Jerry Reeses picks hopefully DGs picks work out better
There is absolutely no incentive to cut him now.
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You expect at least a competent back up from a 3rd round pick. The guy was hurt and then sucked when he came back. Waste of a pick.
That is simply not true. He was more than competent.
Maybe you and I have a different idea of what competent is. He looked terrible to me and the stats confirm it. In the 4 games where he saw significant snaps he gave up a 76% completion percentage and opposing QBs had a 115 rating against him. 1 career pass defended.
Pro Football Reference Advanced Stats - ( New Window )
There is absolutely no incentive to cut him now.
Interesting. Always appreciate hearing you chime in.
If Jordan’s goal was to make us look, he got us
Give me a break. God forbid we use draft history to evaluate a GM. He missed red flags on Beal. He missed red flags on Baker. Not only that, he gave up 2 picks to move up and take Baker. Will Hernandez was a good prospect, but the 34th bat player in the draft?
The idea that a team as bad as the Giants can afford to throw away picks tells me you don’t know much about how the draft works.
That said, you expect a team to assess the player's love for the game. It's hard to project three years in the future, but if there has to be accountability, that's on Gettleman. That said, even high 3rd round draft choices have a limited likelihood of success. It should be put into context of all decisions he has made. You can call the decision to draft him a mistake, but hey!--sh-t happens
In comment 15151843 Matt in SGS said:
Love to make excuses for whiffing on draft picks when it's not Jerry Reese making the picks.
I think a bigger problem is that he doesn't navigate the draft to maximize the number of picks. More picks is more lotto tickets that can hit. He never trades back.
I would love for us to trade back on occasion too but you have to be fair here. You have NO IDEA whether we tried to trade back. You also need another team that for some reason NEEDS YOUR SPOT to grab a player they really like.
People just assume that you can trade back if you want to. I suppose the answer is yes if you are willing to accept very little in return.
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I think a bigger problem is that he doesn't navigate the draft to maximize the number of picks. More picks is more lotto tickets that can hit. He never trades back.
I would love for us to trade back on occasion too but you have to be fair here. You have NO IDEA whether we tried to trade back. You also need another team that for some reason NEEDS YOUR SPOT to grab a player they really like.
People just assume that you can trade back if you want to. I suppose the answer is yes if you are willing to accept very little in return.
The Giants were going to trade back in the second round last year if McKinney wasn't on the board. But it is strange that they haven't done so since Accorsi traded back in the first round to take Kiwi. I'd like to see them do it this year.
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has been that he just doesn't want to be a professional football player. Not so much of a headcase like Eli Apple or Deandre Baker, but Beal just never had his heart in it. It's an individual decision to opt out for Covid but his decision to opt out seemed more fell in line with his overall desire that he really doesn't want to play.
Given that he's dressed for six games in three years, I'd say that seems like a safe assumption.
I'd say he is achieving his goals
I wouldn't stop there.
Dre'mont Jones had a very, very good performance this year for the Broncos. He's looking like a real find for them at DT.
And Bobby Okereke is terrific young SAM LB for the Colts.
There is absolutely no incentive to cut him now.
Ranaan is NOT making things up.
He is simply woefully only reporting it a full month after Patti Traina nailed the exact same issue on her Locked-On Giants Podcast. I posted Traina's thoughts on Beal on 1-12-21.
whenever I see posts like this I can tell how many people on this board work in management positions and make personnel decisions
"vetted" is the new buzz word on BBI.
Getts gives us what we have been dying for for decades with a quality young oline and now we shit on him because he missed a supplemental draft pick where we were DESPERATE for a cb in Eli's final season giving him one more shot.
Beal could have so many validated reasons for not wanting to play football now but no lets not consider that and just put it on our GM for not predicting the fucking future.
Get a fucking life
Whomever spoke up for Beal in the evaluation process should be required to make Starbuck runs for the next year.
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has been that he just doesn't want to be a professional football player. Not so much of a headcase like Eli Apple or Deandre Baker, but Beal just never had his heart in it. It's an individual decision to opt out for Covid but his decision to opt out seemed more fell in line with his overall desire that he really doesn't want to play.
Not sure there’s a nexus there, but sure, if true, he needs to be moved on from us.
It would have been nice if he felt that way BEFORE the selection (and the $$$ too). But in fairness, continuous (shoulder) injury can make you rethink your future. If his off-field stuff is not listening to coaches, then , goodbye. We already know JJ said he doesnt want players who don't want to be there.
Lots of guys get hyped before the college season. If he’d played the 2018 season, and gone through the exhaustive vetting process with multiple teams reviewing his medicals and interviews, I don’t think he would have been 1st round selection.
Getts gives us what we have been dying for for decades with a quality young oline and now we shit on him because he missed a supplemental draft pick where we were DESPERATE for a cb in Eli's final season giving him one more shot.
Beal could have so many validated reasons for not wanting to play football now but no lets not consider that and just put it on our GM for not predicting the fucking future.
Get a fucking life
And you're getting pissy with someone for shitting on someone who has dressed for 6 games in three seasons.
Maybe you should take your own advice and get a 'fucking life' of your own, dweeb.
Or am I remembering this wrong?
I wouldn't stop there.
Dre'mont Jones had a very, very good performance this year for the Broncos. He's looking like a real find for them at DT.
So Dre'mont Jones is a fine pick in round 3, but BJ Hill acvording to you was a DG failure?
You might want to compare them more closely.
Brutal. At least we have a coach who has no problem cutting guys like Beal now.
And I imagine our front office will give him lots of future opportunities to do so!
The only reason they are exaggerated now is because those players didn't work out.
I mean, you can go back to most picks and discuss red flags.
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I wouldn't stop there.
Dre'mont Jones had a very, very good performance this year for the Broncos. He's looking like a real find for them at DT.
So Dre'mont Jones is a fine pick in round 3, but BJ Hill acvording to you was a DG failure?
You might want to compare them more closely.
This isn't about BJ Hill. It's about what that 2019 third round pick could have been if Gettleman didn't waste it on Beal in the supplemental.
Hell, if we had Dre'mont Jones we may not have needed to trade for LW.
If we had Okereke we have one of the best young LBs in the NFL.
If we have McLaurin, maybe Jones gets 16-20 TD passes.
If we have Winovich we probably have to worry less about edge concerns.
Just another example in a long list of mistakes by Gettleman in his three years.
I really hope Jones breaks through in '21 or we are headed deeper into the football abyss...
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In comment 15151893 JoeyBigBlue said:
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You expect at least a competent back up from a 3rd round pick. The guy was hurt and then sucked when he came back. Waste of a pick.
That is simply not true. He was more than competent.
Maybe you and I have a different idea of what competent is. He looked terrible to me and the stats confirm it. In the 4 games where he saw significant snaps he gave up a 76% completion percentage and opposing QBs had a 115 rating against him. 1 career pass defended. Pro Football Reference Advanced Stats - ( New Window )
With the pass rush that we had, he never stood a chance. Plus it was his first taste of the pros. I guess you are going to ignore the combined 23 tackles he had in his final 3 games includimg 1 for a loss.
Look Im not saying he blew it up, but each game, he seemed to belong more. He was very good as a tackling CB and while his first game as a starter he was atrocious, he definitely seemed to be figuring it out to close the season.
Plus I watched all of those games and noticed how much better he got in coverage each game. These were also games where teams were going towards him because they knew he was a rookie and his first two were with Janoris on the other side.
But sure, blanket stats to fill your argument.
@JordanRaanan
Stunned if he’s back.
This is his opinion. He could also stick and make the team. Especially on the current depth chart. Even with his known body of work he is likely our 4th best corner. I almost puked when I typed that but we need help there whether he stays or goes.
You can certainly re-evaluate any player several years down the road, and say 'we should have caught that', or 'holy shit, how did we not see X was going to be a star'. You can say that about any FA. You can rationalize it as 'the pick, or the contract, didn't set us back too much'.
Perhaps this one seems worse because his already injured shoulder needed surgery almost immediately, ending his rookie season before it began.
Bottom line is that this looks to be yet another checkmark in the miss column. IMO, there's too many of those checkmarks. You can afford to have an average batting record when you're trying to maintain a good team. When you're trying to rebuild, being average just keeps your wheels spinning in the mud.
It appears to me as Gettleman reshaped the scouting department and system to his liking the drafts have consistently gotten better
I will tell you what is really getting ridiculous...these absurd defensive postures about Gettleman or all-things Giants, and telling posters which players they can't discuss because they don't particularly like the story.
Over the last few days posters have mentioned they don't want to hear about signing Nate Solder because they know he was the ONLY option at left tackle. They don't want to hear about how Thomas might not be as good as the other OTs drafted. They don't want to hear about how Denver really didn't want to draft Daniel Jones. They don't want to hear about how Beal looks to be a wasted pick even though he was targeted by DG in the supplemental.
Is there a pre-approved list of NY Giant topics that are allowed to be discussed somewhere? Because if there is then maybe just pin it to the top of the board so we all know ahead of time.
You would hate to actually have posters put-off by threads and topics they don't want to discuss nor do they want anybody else to either.
His early issues had to do with injuries, not attitude. And, you also have to think how the experience of having significant injuries might change a young athlete's perspective on professional sports.
And so far, this is rumor (not necessarily inaccurate) and it could change his attitude. Stay tuned.
Baker plays for the chiefs
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I am a believer in innocent until proven guilty. Baker could have come to camp pending judication of his case, would like to see Beal in camp
Baker plays for the chiefs
The Giants decided to forego a 3rd round pick to partake in the Sup Draft for him, so I don't believe they view the supplemental draft as the island of misfit toys you portray it as.
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tell you what should have been done 3 years ago ... but in the Beal case, how many guys in the supplemental draft have panned out in the pros? Just being in that draft is usually at least a yellow flag of caution.
The Giants decided to forego a 3rd round pick to partake in the Sup Draft for him, so I don't believe they view the supplemental draft as the island of misfit toys you portray it as.
Ok ... so tell us how many guys from the supp drafts have actually made significant contributions?
And maybe Dave Brown and Tito Wooten... ;)
He carved out a long career for himself in the NFL. Was just OK
What about Reggie White?
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people have are absolutely ridiculous.
Getts gives us what we have been dying for for decades with a quality young oline and now we shit on him because he missed a supplemental draft pick where we were DESPERATE for a cb in Eli's final season giving him one more shot.
Beal could have so many validated reasons for not wanting to play football now but no lets not consider that and just put it on our GM for not predicting the fucking future.
Get a fucking life
And you're getting pissy with someone for shitting on someone who has dressed for 6 games in three seasons.
Maybe you should take your own advice and get a 'fucking life' of your own, dweeb.
maybe...but I'm pretty fucking right here.
one of the most agitated irritable entitled posters on here taking shots again.
and lol dweeb, haha so tuff
ohhh.. if you only knew dog
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is probably the best person ever selected in the supplemental draft
What about Reggie White?
Was he a supplemental? Or are you referring to the draft of the former USFL players? I don't think that USFL draft is considered supplemental.
It appears to me as Gettleman reshaped the scouting department and system to his liking the drafts have consistently gotten better
X1000
Costly as well, not just from the standpoint that we burned a first and third on them, but we then had to go out and pay big bucks for Bradberry and will likely have to do the same for a second CB this year in FA or draft someone with another high round pick. Those are the draft misses that are back breaking, but it’s not unique to Gettleman by any means.
I'm not sure how you define solid, but I don't agree.
Of you pro-rate his stats from his 289 snaps/21 targets out to the 632/60 Yiadom fielded in 2020, it's just about even. I'd say that is approaching bad play.
Snaps - 632
Comp - 46
Targets - 60
Yards - 492
PD - 3
INT - 0
TD - 3
It's a small sample, and I'm not saying he wouldn't improve with more time and coaching.
But also remember, even before Baker got cut, the Giants went right to the top of the CB UFA price band fro Bradberry and drafted Holmes.
Now they are going to scan of the league and pull out 3rd rounders that were successful and providing us with another example of hindsight providing m.. Another graphic example of Nirvana by denigration.
Fact number one : Beal hasn't been cut yet. His sabbatical may have been, for all we know, to heal a shoulder that gave him trouble.
Fact number two: by any rational or Fair standard David gettleman has been remarkably successful in the third round.
To put his success in context and to appreciate how difficult it is to find a player in the third round consider the previous 10 years. The Giants did not find one productive player.
Jaylon Hosley, Jay Bromley, Brewer, Jerril Jerrigan,Rames Barden,Trever Brederick(sp?), Ogagabe Odigisuva, Dante Thompson, Damontre Moore, Chad Jones.
Driven by need and abandoned by logic our negative ranters have no choice but to ignore or attempt to discount that list.
It is hard to find players in the third round and afterwards.
What gettleman has given us is more than good. Lorenzo Carter, Matt Peart, DeShawn Ximines, Sam Beale, and B.J. Cartier.
All, as of this writing, have a chance to be contributors and a few, like Lorenzo Carter and Matt Peart, might be impact players.
And still the needy compulsive rant their sad revealing rants.
Almost incredible are the finds after the third round. Gates at no cost not even a late draft pick. Darius Slayton, Julian love, Cam Brown, Coughlin, and several other contributors I'm not going to take the time to look up.
Against this, they desperately hold on to the Barkley pick. And somehow make picking the best player available and the safest a disaster in a year where the alternatives, Sam Donald and Josh Rosen, had unacceptable downsides.
I am a student of human behavior and when the most shrill rantor here labels gettleman a buffoon it has nothing to do with gettleman and almost nothing to do with the Giants. It's about frustration and incompetency almost leading to effective impotency. The put down is an attempt to put up, to make him feel better and more powerful. It also tells you, with a reasonable degree of certainty,that the Ranter is a loser, living what David Thoreau called "Lives of quiet desperation". .
" Look at me I started at Smallville High in my senior year, I watch football for 4 hours a week and I know more then the full-time professionals who are paid Millions, have an unlimited database, and a large staff at their disposal."
I am always reminded of the aroused male flea floating down the river on his back and screaming
" open the damn drawbridge".
The outlying factor is Gettleman has a few more 3rd round picks in his three drafts than normal, so you'd hope the odds go up.
Between Carter, Hill, Beal, Ximines, Peart -- only Hill has distinguished himself as a reliable NFL player.
As it easy as it is to project a promising future set of events, it's as easy to predict a bad one. So that's not a very compelling activity.
Now they are going to scan of the league and pull out 3rd rounders that were successful and providing us with another example of hindsight providing m.. Another graphic example of Nirvana by denigration.
Fact number one : Beal hasn't been cut yet. His sabbatical may have been, for all we know, to heal a shoulder that gave him trouble.
Fact number two: by any rational or Fair standard David gettleman has been remarkably successful in the third round.
To put his success in context and to appreciate how difficult it is to find a player in the third round consider the previous 10 years. The Giants did not find one productive player.
Jaylon Hosley, Jay Bromley, Brewer, Jerril Jerrigan,Rames Barden,Trever Brederick(sp?), Ogagabe Odigisuva, Dante Thompson, Damontre Moore, Chad Jones.
Driven by need and abandoned by logic our negative ranters have no choice but to ignore or attempt to discount that list.
It is hard to find players in the third round and afterwards.
What gettleman has given us is more than good. Lorenzo Carter, Matt Peart, DeShawn Ximines, Sam Beale, and B.J. Cartier.
All, as of this writing, have a chance to be contributors and a few, like Lorenzo Carter and Matt Peart, might be impact players.
And still the needy compulsive rant their sad revealing rants.
Almost incredible are the finds after the third round. Gates at no cost not even a late draft pick. Darius Slayton, Julian love, Cam Brown, Coughlin, and several other contributors I'm not going to take the time to look up.
Against this, they desperately hold on to the Barkley pick. And somehow make picking the best player available and the safest a disaster in a year where the alternatives, Sam Donald and Josh Rosen, had unacceptable downsides.
I am a student of human behavior and when the most shrill rantor here labels gettleman a buffoon it has nothing to do with gettleman and almost nothing to do with the Giants. It's about frustration and incompetency almost leading to effective impotency. The put down is an attempt to put up, to make him feel better and more powerful. It also tells you, with a reasonable degree of certainty,that the Ranter is a loser, living what David Thoreau called "Lives of quiet desperation". .
" Look at me I started at Smallville High in my senior year, I watch football for 4 hours a week and I know more then the full-time professionals who are paid Millions, have an unlimited database, and a large staff at their disposal."
I am always reminded of the aroused male flea floating down the river on his back and screaming
" open the damn drawbridge".
Interesting dissertation.
And with a David Thoreau reference. You don't often see that mixed into too many posts, no less one so adamantly defending Giants/Gettleman.
The outlying factor is Gettleman has a few more 3rd round picks in his three drafts than normal, so you'd hope the odds go up.
Between Carter, Hill, Beal, Ximines, Peart -- only Hill has distinguished himself as a reliable NFL player.
As it easy as it is to project a promising future set of events, it's as easy to predict a bad one. So that's not a very compelling activity.
At least Gettleman has already proven to be better at drafting in the 3rd round than Jerry Reese was. The only hits Reese had in the 3rd round was Mario Manningham. Every other pick turned out to be a bust. Jay Alford might have had a solid career had it not been for injury and the same could be said about S Chad Jones.
At least BJ Hill, Lorenzo Carter, and Matt Peart have shown flashes of being solid players. That's more than you can say about Davis Webb, Darian Thompson, Odighizuwa, Jay Bromley, Damontre Moore, Jayron Hosley, Jerrel Jernigan, Ramses Barden, and Travis Beckum.
Reese did not produce much in the middle rounds those first three years (and to be fair, no teams really produce all that much).
This is why I don't register failure in the 3rd round as a tragedy. It's a statistical crap shoot to get much in that round.
I guessing they didn't do their hw or interview the kid to find that big fact out before the draft. Do you know if this happened after he was drafted and realized he didn't want to play anymore?
LOL.... you must of missed him being torched and holding 8th string Eagles receivers in that Philly game.
But as a fan, you always hope the "bell goes off" and the young guys says "I WANT THIS...." and takes the necessary steps of hard work to be the best he possibly can be.
I imagined Beal starting and upgrading the #2 CB slot for 2021 and possibly beyond. We shall see but I guess it ain't looking good.
I still believe what killed DG the most is his having to listen to the ownership directive of building around Eli while rebuilding. It is a shame the next Anthony Munoz wasn't available at #2 over Barkley, then we would not have needed Solder.
Ah, what can you do but move forward. At #11, we just may draft a CB.
So he has been here for 48 games and played in 6 ... and sat out the entire 2020 season without an injury?
Not a sign of a determined/passionate football player. We need DBs but, ....
Don't let the door hit you in the ass Sam.
So he has been here for 48 games and played in 6 ... and sat out the entire 2020 season without an injury?
Not a sign of a determined/passionate football player. We need DBs but, ....
Don't let the door hit you in the ass Sam.
Folks, whenever I've passed up on an opportunity in life I've regretted it deeply later on. I hope Sam Beal sees the light and decides he wants to play.
His second one happened last May when Deandre Baker put his starting CB job up for grabs. And Beal subsequently decided he didn't want to be in the running for it.
Will the Giants give him a third swing at the ball?