So I have seen a few rumors connecting the Giants to Samuel, a slot receiver with some decent upside. However, we already have Shepard who is a quality player. I would imagine that if the Giants were to pursue Samuel it might mean a trade for Shepard, to of course clear out some more cap space and acquire draft capital. What do you all think we could command for a player like Shepard, should such a scenario play out? 4th rounder maybe?
There are a lot of reasons to sign Samuel...
-4 years younger than Shepard
-less injury prone/smaller injury history
-better deep threat/more versatile
-more explosive with the ball in his hands
-better long speed
I can probably make the argument that Samuel is just a better player.
Unfortunately, there is no way the Giants trade Shepard.
The main difference would be age as Samuel is much younger than Tate was at the time of that signing.
It would still be a questionable strategy as Shepard, while not a force, still shows value in the slot. Allocating resources for the offense in my view should go towards outside WR, TE and a Right Tackle, not another slot receiver.
Before we get to Samuel, let's talk about true prized outside guys - Robinson, Golladay. If we were to sign one of these, we wouldn't have a bad three some. We would have a true #1 X, I think Slayton would settle in nicely as the Z and Sheppard can do what he does best in the slot. It doesn't prevent us, and we absolutely should, get another WR in the draft. The 2 guys who it seems may fall to us are Smith and Waddle. They are both best in the slot and as #11 picks, they should be expected to play immediately. I see Sheppard being a cut or trade at that point. If we were to get a WR in round 2, we could still see Sheppard cut/traded.
As mentioned before the probable top recievers in round 1 are best at slot. I think signing Samuel means that we see a need to add explosion but don't drool over the 2 Bama guys. I still think we add a reciever in day 2 but he is probably eased into the lineup. I could see Samuel playing Z, Slayton X and Sheppard as Z for this year while our day 2 pick learns. Samuel moves inside in 2022.
So short answer - there is a good chance that Sheppard is not on the team in 2022 but he wouldn't get much in a trade.
On all touches
Shepard 40.5%
Samuel 35.1%
On 3rd/4th down
Shepard 48.5%
Samuel 38.7 %
To me they are similar players. Samuel adds more rushing ability. But we have Shepard and Barkley. No need for Samuel. Also I think Shepard is a better player.
If they want a free agent target they should trade Evan Engram and sign Jonnu Smith.
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Not sure why this would be hugely different.
The main difference would be age as Samuel is much younger than Tate was at the time of that signing.
It would still be a questionable strategy as Shepard, while not a force, still shows value in the slot. Allocating resources for the offense in my view should go towards outside WR, TE and a Right Tackle, not another slot receiver.
We are seriously lacking in offensive weapons. We also do not have a deep bench. It is nice to play fantasy football and try to put starting rosters together, but what happens when we have just one injury to our WR corps? Then you wish you had Shep on the roster.
On all touches
Shepard 40.5%
Samuel 35.1%
On 3rd/4th down
Shepard 48.5%
Samuel 38.7 %
Those percents are on all receiving targets and rushing touches
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In comment 15152522 adamg said:
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Not sure why this would be hugely different.
The main difference would be age as Samuel is much younger than Tate was at the time of that signing.
It would still be a questionable strategy as Shepard, while not a force, still shows value in the slot. Allocating resources for the offense in my view should go towards outside WR, TE and a Right Tackle, not another slot receiver.
We are seriously lacking in offensive weapons. We also do not have a deep bench. It is nice to play fantasy football and try to put starting rosters together, but what happens when we have just one injury to our WR corps? Then you wish you had Shep on the roster.
EricJ - I didn't suggest Shepard shouldn't be on the roster next season nor am I "playing fantasy football" within my post. Is it someone else you are addressing?
Shepard has a high cap number, but he does have good chemistry with Jones. He isn’t terrible as a 2nd or 3rd option.
I'd prefer Smith SCHUSTER at ptojected AVA of 16il, thanks, if he passes muster in interviews.
I'd prefer Smith SCHUSTER at ptojected AVA of 16il, thanks, if he passes muster in interviews.
He's got size, but isn't he a slot guy too?
I'd prefer Smith SCHUSTER at ptojected AVA of 16il, thanks, if he passes muster in interviews.
No thanks on Smith-Schuster. Not paying 16 mill a year for a No. 2 receiver.
I am addressing everyone who is riding on this drunken pirate ship (BBI).
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Is it someone else you are addressing?
I am addressing everyone who is riding on this drunken pirate ship (BBI).
Ok, but let's see if the NY Giant front office personnel purchased a few first class cabins on this same ship when free agency begins.
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At this point, no one should rate Curtis Samuel as an upgrade over Sheppard. Also Curtis's projected Market Value at Spotrac is 12 mil AVA, a crazy figure for a very unproven player.
I'd prefer Smith SCHUSTER at ptojected AVA of 16il, thanks, if he passes muster in interviews.
No thanks on Smith-Schuster. Not paying 16 mill a year for a No. 2 receiver.
Agreed on Smith-Schuster. He also seems like another diva WR which we really don’t need with the team Judge is building. If we are going FA receiver it’s going to be Golladay or Robinson. Corey Davis could be an option but I’m not sure he provides the consistency we need. If it’s not one of those top 2 guys they will likely sit back and draft 2 WR’s in the first 4 rounds.
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In comment 15152656 BelieveJJ said:
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At this point, no one should rate Curtis Samuel as an upgrade over Sheppard. Also Curtis's projected Market Value at Spotrac is 12 mil AVA, a crazy figure for a very unproven player.
I'd prefer Smith SCHUSTER at ptojected AVA of 16il, thanks, if he passes muster in interviews.
No thanks on Smith-Schuster. Not paying 16 mill a year for a No. 2 receiver.
Agreed on Smith-Schuster. He also seems like another diva WR which we really don’t need with the team Judge is building. If we are going FA receiver it’s going to be Golladay or Robinson. Corey Davis could be an option but I’m not sure he provides the consistency we need. If it’s not one of those top 2 guys they will likely sit back and draft 2 WR’s in the first 4 rounds.
It's a mistake to force a need pick when we can add WR depth in FA.
Except CJ Board makes a tenth of what Samuel will likely command. The issue is tying up a bunch of cap space in a gadget player.
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But he's better than CJ Board.
Except CJ Board makes a tenth of what Samuel will likely command. The issue is tying up a bunch of cap space in a gadget player.
You're too hung up on the player. It doesn't have to be Samuel. It has to be someone though. We can't go into the draft without having addressed WR in FA. That's a mistake.
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In comment 15152676 adamg said:
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But he's better than CJ Board.
Except CJ Board makes a tenth of what Samuel will likely command. The issue is tying up a bunch of cap space in a gadget player.
You're too hung up on the player. It doesn't have to be Samuel. It has to be someone though. We can't go into the draft without having addressed WR in FA. That's a mistake.
I totally agree if the price is right. I’d love to see us land a guy like Golladay or Robinson. But if we don’t land one of those guys I don’t see the value in overpaying a second tier FA WR just because they have a few years of experience. I’d rather draft 2 WR’s than overpay a medium level talent.
I totally agree if the price is right. I’d love to see us land a guy like Golladay or Robinson. But if we don’t land one of those guys I don’t see the value in overpaying a second tier FA WR just because they have a few years of experience. I’d rather draft 2 WR’s than overpay a medium level talent.
And if we pass up on a chance at an elite edge or OL because we HAVE to address WR in the draft? There are going to be second and third tier FA WR. They aren't all going to make 10-20 mill per.
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I totally agree if the price is right. I’d love to see us land a guy like Golladay or Robinson. But if we don’t land one of those guys I don’t see the value in overpaying a second tier FA WR just because they have a few years of experience. I’d rather draft 2 WR’s than overpay a medium level talent.
And if we pass up on a chance at an elite edge or OL because we HAVE to address WR in the draft? There are going to be second and third tier FA WR. They aren't all going to make 10-20 mill per.
I don’t think they need to necessarily take a WR in round 1. But we can’t not address the position in what is considered to be a strong WR draft two years in a row. We passed on some really good options last year to take Thomas and McKinney. If they end up out of the race for the top FA WR’s it does become a need in the first few rounds. The issue is they need a guy who either is or has the potential to be a #1 receiver. No one on the current roster at WR scares any defense so they can stack the box and shut down our run game. A second or third tier receiver is not the solution unless that’s in addition to a top tier option.
Agreed. I would like to see us keep Shepard, Slayton obviously and then follow one of these paths:
1.) Sign Golladay or Robinson and draft another WR somewhere between round 1 and 4.
2.) If we get priced out of the Robinson/Golladay market, draft a WR in round 1 or 2 and either draft another one in the round 4-5 range or sign a second or third tier receiver to a reasonable deal.
We need a #1 WR, whether that’s one of the top FA’s or a 1-2 round pick. It opens up the whole offense and Shepard can play his true slot receiver role.
- Sheppard seems to have maxed out. His best year was 2018.
- Samuel has improved on his receptions and yardage every year in the league. He is an ascending player.
I've outlined my scenarios on WR. Shepard is probably in the 2nd tier and I think the $ difference between 1st and 2nd tiers will be large this offseason.
- Sheppard seems to have maxed out. His best year was 2018.
- Samuel has improved on his receptions and yardage every year in the league. He is an ascending player.
Those numbers were career. But I went back and checked the numbers for recent seasons. Shepard still comes out better
Last two seasons - All downs
Sterling Shepard 38.38%
Curtis Samuel 35.11%
Last 2 seasons - 3/4 down
Sterling Shepard 50.00%
Curtis Samuel 41.43%
Only 2020 - All downs
Sterling Shepard 40.63%
Curtis Samuel 35.51%
Only 2020 - 3/4 down
Sterling Shepard 50.00%
Curtis Samuel 46.34%
- Samuel has improved on his receptions and yardage every year in the league. He is an ascending player...
This is a repeat of the same logic Jerry Reese employed when grossly overpaying for OV in free agency.
I would hope the Giants don't repeat that mistake about "ascending" players.
Smith-Schuster has far, far more "skins on the wall" than Samuel, so that one can actually see a true #1 potential in him. But for their by now meaningless combine performances, no one on earth would put Samuel in the same tier as JJSS after their first 4 years in the league.
And Samuel's performance has been on a team featuring Christian McCaffrey, whereas JJSS's Steelers have had cow pucky at RB to occupy defenses' attentention since Leveon Bell departed.
No thanks.
If we're spending 15+ mill give me Allen Robinson or if we're going bargain shopping... a lotto ticket FA like Rashard Higgins at 2/10 mill please.
Yeah, you make quite a strong case for not criticizing DG for the Tate signing...
Ben returing from injury no longer has the canon arm he onnce had. The Pitt OL regressed too so that Pitt had a poor, unreliable running game. The offense was to some extent redesigned to get the ball out of Ben's hands ASAP and JJSS was the main focus of that.
Those concommitent circumstance are more the cause for Schuster' lower YPC than anything else, IMO. Contra the low YPC JJSS actually produced very good YAC this year. I had a similar discussion with BW in DC about this already. Dig deeper.
What's between his ears is another story, and obviously would bear serious scrutiny.
Get a guy for the outside or a guy that can put a jolt into this offense and compliment Shepard.