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My Thoughts

George from PA : 2/15/2021 10:56 am
No one has hated the recent history more then I. Sitting in seats surrounded by the oppositions team's fans..drive me nuts. lets be honest, this past season only saving grace was the pitiful division .....but I do feel like we have turned the corner.

This staff has the team ready to play every week. Smart Football.... the Giants are still short of talent. No moral victories and this off-season must go as well as possible.

The talent on offense, without Barkley is scary. Good to see how well Gates played center and even with all the growing pains, Thomas has secured the LT spot imo, but Sy is absolutely correct about the OL. Hernandez lost his job to a non-complete rookie guard. Peart never replaced a weak Fleming at RT and Zeitler is paid like the best guard in the league. Much still needs to done with OL.

The limitation with WRs have been discussed and Engram actually cost us games.....We can only live with Shepard and Slayton if we have a stud to get the bulk of attention.

A #1 WR, a 2-way TE, a guard and tackle.

The defense is much closer, especially with the Addition of Blake and Bradberry. A game wreaking edge would do wonders...just imagine a youthful LT on this team. Not sure if that unicorn can be found.

The late season pick-up of Quincy Wilson intrigues me. He was a 2nd Rd press corner of the Colts that was traded to the Jets, got hurt and never saw the field, waived and the Giants picked him up late in season.....if he can fill in opposite Bradberry. They certainly have enough time to see what they have in Quincy....so if corner is not a priority, he might be the answer. if not....assume addition at Edge and corner

The roster is totally empty. The safeties might be the strongest group the Giants have ever had! Barkley might be the best the RB ever for the Giants.

This is probably Jones make or break year....I hope he steps up.....but if not....I sure hope we figure out all the noise in Seattle with Russel Wilson...would love him in Blue if Jones fails.

The Eagles are a mess. Dallas might rebound a bit with Dak but their arrow is pointing down. Washington will be much tougher match.....but there is no reason....the Giants can not start a winning run. The Giants are closer then many might think.

the TO do list

Secure Williams long-term and stabilize the DL.
Should be a no brainer
Secure the secondary with one more reliable corner.
Hopefully Q.Wilson is the answer.
Bring in that Non-Prima Dona #1 WR.
Hate to pay big bucks but draft is risky
Get a reliable 2 way TE.
our next TE must block
Figure out how to complete the OL.
It has been 10 years since the OL has been a strength.....the primary reason the Giants have had a near decade of sad sack seasons.....to me....this is #1 priority.



the most difficult get will be the game wreaking Edge....

Bud Dupree killed the Giants....and the Steelers are in cap hell....so maybe he becomes available.

nothing earth shattering just some ramblings about my beloved Giants to spur some conversation
A few things:  
Big Blue '56 : 2/15/2021 11:04 am : link

Peart was playing rather well before Covid. Never seemed to regain his strength post..He looks like a play who takes no prisoners. TBD..

Our DL was upper level, sans Edge guy..Our LBs weren’t elite, but productive imv.

Our Secondary looks strong if healthy. They should hopefully fortify there, imo.

I’m optimistic about our developing OL. That too will hopefully be upgraded as well..
just wondering  
Giantsfan79 : 2/15/2021 11:05 am : link
name some two way TEs in the league. They don't exist anymore, the game has changed and the two way TE is extinct.
I am hoping like hell  
djm : 2/15/2021 11:09 am : link
that my impressions of 2020 remind me a lot of 2004 ring true. I think even down to the QB. Rough first half for both kids, better 2nd half. Both QBs got wins against Dallas in week 17.

Granted the teams are apples and oranges as far as personnel and Eli being in year 1 while Jones was year 2, but I don't think it's unfair to feel that Jones was about as close to a year 1 QB as you will find. Any QB going from one staff to a different staff from year 1-2 would likely experience a learning curve, and this was one rough year to learn something new in the NFL.

The Giants just had the look of a team with staying power or purpose, much like the 2004 team did. Both teams displayed streaks of good play also displayed sore spots. Young teams do that.

I don't know how good we will be under Judge and Jones but I think they team is poised to not suffer atrophy while adding talent these next few years.
You lost me on the first line  
Bob from Massachusetts : 2/15/2021 11:09 am : link
I hated the recent history more than you. I live in New England, home of the f'in' Patriots, but really it's because I care more. Prove me wrong!!
I know we don't have a classic #2 CB  
BillT : 2/15/2021 11:13 am : link
But we are 5 deep in quality DBs. Peppers. McKinney, Ryan, Bradberry, and Holmes. And we have Love and Yiadom as well. To me this is not a priority position to add a high draft pick or FA. WR, OL and TE are all more important to upgrade.
For the first time  
TrueBlue56 : 2/15/2021 11:14 am : link
in a long time we have legitimate pieces to build around. We need to continue to build more complimentary pieces regardless of position. Having the versatility we do with some players really helps like Logan ryan, peppers as well as offensive linemen that have experience playing on both sides.

I like the direction judge and gettleman are taking this team. They are looking for football players and if you can contribute, they will find a role for them.

I think we have turned more into a proactive approach in building the roster instead of reactive
I have no  
River Mike : 2/15/2021 11:17 am : link
Earth shattering observations to add to what's been tossed about on this board for several weeks now. We can pick any number of positions and say with conviction that this should be our #1 priority. My priority would be a tall stud WR. Next would be a standout Corner. Why haven't I put O-line first? Because we have more potential answers on the roster there than at those other 2 positions, and I stress "potential". Edge rusher? Would be great, but with better coverage in back (new CB) it will be easier to scheme to create pressure. It will certainly be an interesting off season and lots of fodder for discussion.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/15/2021 11:18 am : link
Need more firepower on offense. No ? about it.
The Giants have a bottom 10 consensus NFL roster  
arniefez : 2/15/2021 11:27 am : link
They will need smart FA to patch holes, to resign their two DLs, to hit a homerun in the draft when they have struggled to hit a double to get to the middle of the pack in 2021. On top of that the QB is a huge question mark and their "star" RB has missed half the games of his first 3 seasons and is rehabbing an ACL. Maybe they are due for some good luck.
Agree...  
Brown_Hornet : 2/15/2021 11:30 am : link
...re the limited 2-way TEs in the league, there aren't many.
That said, get a blocking BEAST. Run 11 personnel often utilizing Barkley as a receiving threat and you can throw out of what is just as likely a running formation/package.

JG just needs to be creative with his concepts.
RE: A few things:  
Milton : 2/15/2021 11:32 am : link
In comment 15153171 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Peart was playing rather well before Covid...He looks like a player who takes no prisoners.
In what way does he look like a player who takes no prisoners? His post-draft interview made him seem like anything but that.
good posts and better OP  
Grizz99 : 2/15/2021 11:35 am : link
Just to add my two unqualified and tentative cents.

I think the O line might be set and may NOT require any more finite resources. They survived the perfect storm and PFF has them rated 16th or exactly middle of the pack.
Gates and Thomas should be significantly better. Hernandez post covid better than Scott L. Zeigler played better at the end and I think Peart could be a monster or we could survive with someone like Fleming.
The return of Barclay is going to help the oline too
George's To Do list  
D HOS : 2/15/2021 11:38 am : link
Good review George. I agree point by point. Your to do list is the same as mine.
ah yes  
ATL_Giants : 2/15/2021 11:47 am : link
Quote:
No one has hated the recent history more then I.

wow. good luck with that.
RE: I know we don't have a classic #2 CB  
robbieballs2003 : 2/15/2021 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15153183 BillT said:
Quote:
But we are 5 deep in quality DBs. Peppers. McKinney, Ryan, Bradberry, and Holmes. And we have Love and Yiadom as well. To me this is not a priority position to add a high draft pick or FA. WR, OL and TE are all more important to upgrade.


Your opinion is your opinion but I will say this, why do you think Graham played so much man at Miami and so much zone here? They didn't go into the season with the type of defense we were playing at the end of the year. Graham has commented how they had to switch to a mostly zone D. Judge has said he wants to be multiple as a team to give us the best chance to win every week. We were anything but multiple on D. We brought the same style every week. Why do you think that was?
Good thoughts  
Lines of Scrimmage : 2/15/2021 12:18 pm : link
They are close. Another good draft and smart FA acquisitions will have them competing for the division. Win the division and go from there. Just about every season the team who wins the line battles wins it in the East. Upper tier QB play wins the playoffs.

Draft best talent on defense (corner first, front seven next) in round one. Rounds 2-4 add 2 WR, best OL (ideally a nasty Guard). Worst thing the Giants can do is think the OL is set....add talent every year.

FA find a veteran WR hopefully on short contract till the rookies are ready.

I think the coaching staff shows promise. It will be up to Jones to show he belongs. I am skeptical but hope to be proven wrong. If they continue to strengthen elsewhere then replacing him will be easier if need be as they can give up assets and make a bold move.
RE: I know we don't have a classic #2 CB  
Milton : 2/15/2021 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15153183 BillT said:
Quote:
But we are 5 deep in quality DBs. Peppers. McKinney, Ryan, Bradberry, and Holmes. And we have Love and Yiadom as well. To me this is not a priority position to add a high draft pick or FA. WR, OL and TE are all more important to upgrade.
CB and ER are right up there with the three you mention. It's just a question of following the value, which is reassuring in a weird way. They have needs at so many positions, there is little risk of reaching for a particular position. If CB Caleb Farley is #4 on their draft board and is still available with pick #11, they can feel good about taking him even if Jaylen Waddle is also available and Waddle is #9 on their board (so still good value, but not as good as Farley). There won't be a repeat of what happened to Matthias Kiwanuka: forced to play out of position for much of his career because of Strahan and Osi.
I agree on CB not a priority  
Chip : 2/15/2021 1:10 pm : link
I see WR OL and a two way TE.

My biggest concern is ownership that makes there living through Football and being out a full season of attendance being in a position to be aggressive in Free Agency. They are not Jerry Jones or the owners from Carolina and Jacksonville who can throw in a 100 mil of cash and not blink an eye.
RE: I agree on CB not a priority  
Judge_and_Jury : 2/15/2021 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15153294 Chip said:
Quote:
I see WR OL and a two way TE.

My biggest concern is ownership that makes there living through Football and being out a full season of attendance being in a position to be aggressive in Free Agency. They are not Jerry Jones or the owners from Carolina and Jacksonville who can throw in a 100 mil of cash and not blink an eye.


I think we upgrade on CB but probably a wave 2 or wave 3 guy. Kind of like when we got Sam Madison late. You hope of course to get someone close to that level on the cheap but at least someone who would be an upgrade of Yiadom.
Bob, 1st...its a figure of speech.  
George from PA : 2/15/2021 1:29 pm : link
2nd....18-1 is the only thing you need to say.

Living in the middle of Eagle country....has not been great....but I just hold up 4 to 1

NE can torture everyone but the Giants.

Brady still grimaces....

Red Sox is slightly harder to deal with....but the Yankees have staying power....and should overcome.
George: none of the CBs on the roster offer a lot of hope. Wilson is a  
Ivan15 : 2/15/2021 1:41 pm : link
Long shot as he has been released by 2 teams, and there really is not enough time between now and the draft to evaluate him, except maybe his work ethic.

I am interested to see who is picked up in free agency. There should be at least one solid starter other than our own d-linemen. When we have that out of the way, we can all argue about potential draft picks.
I understand Gronkowski does not grow on trees  
George from PA : 2/15/2021 1:43 pm : link
We agree that Engram is not the answer. A big WR is not a TE.

The kid coming out of Penn St is not a blocking TE...right now but has a body type that can become a 2 way TE.

I am not looking for Mike Ditka....but the only way offenses and defenses become "multiple " is by having players that are multiple.

A safety that can play Lber.

A TE that can not block hurts..... the best way to hide what an offense is going to do...Barkley can run and go out to pass.

Defenses will sell out to stop run....the Giants need a TE that can run block.

One comment about TE's...  
BamaBlue : 2/15/2021 1:46 pm : link
The value in a TE is to maximize their talents. With Engram, the worst place for him is on the LOS as a 'traditional' TE. Engram is an "H Back" and should be used there as a blitz pick-up, or a route runner. Putting him on the LOS is a liability...
Ivan, technically...he was traded by the Colts and released by Jets  
George from PA : 2/15/2021 1:48 pm : link
But I get it.

Hoping the 2nd pedigree....I read Wilson had a good rookie year playing press corner....coaches changed...traded.

The Jets are dysfunctional....so who knows.

At least..the coaches have seen him practice...so they should know exactly what they have....I suspect corner will be a priority if he is not the answer
RE: RE: I know we don't have a classic #2 CB  
BillT : 2/15/2021 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15153240 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15153183 BillT said:


Quote:


But we are 5 deep in quality DBs. Peppers. McKinney, Ryan, Bradberry, and Holmes. And we have Love and Yiadom as well. To me this is not a priority position to add a high draft pick or FA. WR, OL and TE are all more important to upgrade.



Your opinion is your opinion but I will say this, why do you think Graham played so much man at Miami and so much zone here? They didn't go into the season with the type of defense we were playing at the end of the year. Graham has commented how they had to switch to a mostly zone D. Judge has said he wants to be multiple as a team to give us the best chance to win every week. We were anything but multiple on D. We brought the same style every week. Why do you think that was?

Through most of last year we didn't have McKinney and Holmes was a rookie who missed some time as well. Love also showed well in the last game. This will be a different looking unit next season even without additions. I'd rather roll the dice with this secondary than our WR, OL or TE.
That OL Talk Was Fantasy  
Samiam : 2/15/2021 2:33 pm : link
Look at what happened to KCs great offense when the OL could not pass protect. I don’t get thinking that the OL can return as is. Saying that Covid is what made Hernandez and Peart suck is wishing that things will get better. And, Lemioux, while we want him to become the second coming of Seubert, will have to get much better at pass blocking to become adequate. If we keep Ziegler at his current salary, he’ll be among the most overpaid in the league.

Presupposing that Thomas and Gates will be good, and I hope that’s true, the OL might not suck as it has over the past few years but it has a long way to go to look as it good as it did during that winning streak during the middle of the year. I don’t know if the help we require will be available during free agency but if it isn’t, how will Jones have the time to throw deep to the new WR or how will Barkley run well when he gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage unless we find someone good in the draft?
RE: RE: RE: I know we don't have a classic #2 CB  
robbieballs2003 : 2/15/2021 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15153350 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15153240 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 15153183 BillT said:


Quote:


But we are 5 deep in quality DBs. Peppers. McKinney, Ryan, Bradberry, and Holmes. And we have Love and Yiadom as well. To me this is not a priority position to add a high draft pick or FA. WR, OL and TE are all more important to upgrade.



Your opinion is your opinion but I will say this, why do you think Graham played so much man at Miami and so much zone here? They didn't go into the season with the type of defense we were playing at the end of the year. Graham has commented how they had to switch to a mostly zone D. Judge has said he wants to be multiple as a team to give us the best chance to win every week. We were anything but multiple on D. We brought the same style every week. Why do you think that was?


Through most of last year we didn't have McKinney and Holmes was a rookie who missed some time as well. Love also showed well in the last game. This will be a different looking unit next season even without additions. I'd rather roll the dice with this secondary than our WR, OL or TE.


There is a difference between you wanting to upgrade other positions and saying corner is not a need. Corner is absolutely a need and, imo, opens up this playbook. DC's play zone to protect their corners and puts the emphasis on the DL doing their job up front. We were actually very successful last year blitzing. The issue was that is was done at such a low rate. If Graham felt he could trust his secondary to hold up on the back end then he would have blitzed more when our front seven guys were banged up. You have to think realistically. You are focusing on reasons ye may have played more zone later in the year but aren't being fair to what was happening up front. Guys like Fackrell and Martinez were hurt. If anything, our secondary was in better shape than our OLB so why did he not help them out more by blitzing more than helping out our secondary by keeping 7 guys in coverage. Corner is 100% a huge need for this team. That doesn't mean it needs to be a top tier FA or our first round pick. It needs to be addresses though.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I know we don't have a classic #2 CB  
BillT : 2/15/2021 4:18 pm : link
In comment 15153397 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15153350 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15153240 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 15153183 BillT said:


Quote:


But we are 5 deep in quality DBs. Peppers. McKinney, Ryan, Bradberry, and Holmes. And we have Love and Yiadom as well. To me this is not a priority position to add a high draft pick or FA. WR, OL and TE are all more important to upgrade.



Your opinion is your opinion but I will say this, why do you think Graham played so much man at Miami and so much zone here? They didn't go into the season with the type of defense we were playing at the end of the year. Graham has commented how they had to switch to a mostly zone D. Judge has said he wants to be multiple as a team to give us the best chance to win every week. We were anything but multiple on D. We brought the same style every week. Why do you think that was?


Through most of last year we didn't have McKinney and Holmes was a rookie who missed some time as well. Love also showed well in the last game. This will be a different looking unit next season even without additions. I'd rather roll the dice with this secondary than our WR, OL or TE.



There is a difference between you wanting to upgrade other positions and saying corner is not a need. Corner is absolutely a need and, imo, opens up this playbook. DC's play zone to protect their corners and puts the emphasis on the DL doing their job up front. We were actually very successful last year blitzing. The issue was that is was done at such a low rate. If Graham felt he could trust his secondary to hold up on the back end then he would have blitzed more when our front seven guys were banged up. You have to think realistically. You are focusing on reasons ye may have played more zone later in the year but aren't being fair to what was happening up front. Guys like Fackrell and Martinez were hurt. If anything, our secondary was in better shape than our OLB so why did he not help them out more by blitzing more than helping out our secondary by keeping 7 guys in coverage. Corner is 100% a huge need for this team. That doesn't mean it needs to be a top tier FA or our first round pick. It needs to be addresses though.

I never said CB wasn't a need. My original post was "But we are 5 deep in quality DBs. Peppers. McKinney, Ryan, Bradberry, and Holmes. And we have Love and Yiadom as well. To me this is not a priority position to add a high draft pick or FA. WR, OL and TE are all more important to upgrade."
I am by it judging others opinions, but  
George from PA : 2/15/2021 4:52 pm : link
Graham unable or unwilling to use his entire playbook..
Due to concerns of man to man coverage.....makes corner a need and high a priority.

Same goes with Garrett holding back long developing plays due to pass coverage concerns.....

This team will never be what we want them to be.... until roster matches the needs of the coaches.

And ideally offering depth as well.
RE: just wondering  
GoDeep13 : 2/15/2021 6:24 pm : link
In comment 15153172 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
name some two way TEs in the league. They don't exist anymore, the game has changed and the two way TE is extinct.
Gronk, Kittle, Kelce, T.J. Hockenson, Mark Andrews, Dallas Goedert.
6...  
Brown_Hornet : 2/15/2021 10:22 pm : link
...of 32.

There are more, but not bunches.

I may be warming to Pitts.
His catch radius is as large as any player I can think of. He's fast and 50/50 balls are 80/20 balls when he's on the fueld.
RE: 6...  
GoDeep13 : 2/16/2021 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15153856 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...of 32.

There are more, but not bunches.

I may be warming to Pitts.
His catch radius is as large as any player I can think of. He's fast and 50/50 balls are 80/20 balls when he's on the fueld.
The best TEs in the game are 2-way TEs. Even Waller’s blocking rating has him at league average for a TE. Engram is rated at the bottom.
While it would be great to have a 2-way Tight End  
Jimmy Googs : 2/16/2021 12:32 pm : link
this offense is handicapped right now by giving so many snaps to the 0-way Engram. Smith & Toilolo make the occasional block but aren't very consistent even at that, and are basically no threat in the passing game.

The entire unit needs a face lift...
RE: RE: 6...  
Brown_Hornet : 2/16/2021 1:07 pm : link
In comment 15154250 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
In comment 15153856 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...of 32.

There are more, but not bunches.

I may be warming to Pitts.
His catch radius is as large as any player I can think of. He's fast and 50/50 balls are 80/20 balls when he's on the fueld.

The best TEs in the game are 2-way TEs. Even Waller’s blocking rating has him at league average for a TE. Engram is rated at the bottom.
ok?

so we're up to 7 2-way TEs.

My point was if NY wants a dual threat that 12 personnel would accomplish that with Pitts as one of the TEs and Barkley as the TB, You have a running formation Which lends itself to play action which buys Daniel Jones an extra half sec. and Barkley qualifies as a good receiving option.
Find a beast blocking TE.
Running the ball with a non-blocking TE on the OL hurts  
George from PA : 2/16/2021 1:12 pm : link
The team....it is not that difficult to understand.

Of course...it helps in play action.... That is not the point.

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