I like Tomlinson a lot but if we have a shot at Golladay or Robinson, I’m opting to re-sign LW and using the Tomlinson money to put towards signing Golladay or Robinson. This obviously assumes we aren’t able to perform the cap gymnastics required to sign LW, Tomlinson, and a top free agent WR.
In my opinion it’s harder to find a legit #1 WR than it is to draft another guy that is close to Tomlinson’s caliber. I think this is a case where you have to figure out which position will have the biggest impact on the win/loss column. I feel that is a #1 WR since it is just as impactful on the running game as the passing game.
How does everyone else feel about this?
Thats what Buff and Cards did for their young QBs with very positive results.
Bringing back BOTH of them. It's one or the other, with LW the clear favorite.
For others, I'd rather keep DT. So it depends on the WR. I'd sooner pay Tomlinson over Golladay. I know the latter has his share of fans here, and I agree he's a great talent, but his injury history gives me a little caution.
That’s what I’m thinking
Agreed those receivers will cost more than Tomlinson. I was saying is it better to use the 11-12 million a year we would give Tomlinson to use towards one of the WR’s. Meaning we would need to kick in another 5-6 million in addition to the Tomlinson salary.
If we can’t get Robinson, Golladay, or maybe Godwin I would re-sign Tomlinson and draft a WR in round or or two and either pick up a third tier receiver in FA or draft another one in the mid rounds.
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Tomlinson's money will not get us a #1 WR in FA. Keep the D together and get the WR(s) in the draft.
Agreed those receivers will cost more than Tomlinson. I was saying is it better to use the 11-12 million a year we would give Tomlinson to use towards one of the WR’s. Meaning we would need to kick in another 5-6 million in addition to the Tomlinson salary.
And then you have to go out a replace Tomlinson. Robinson is probably the only true #1n the group and I don't want to pay as much as that will take. Way too much to spend and the D takes a step back. Two bad results.
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In comment 15153354 BillT said:
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Tomlinson's money will not get us a #1 WR in FA. Keep the D together and get the WR(s) in the draft.
Agreed those receivers will cost more than Tomlinson. I was saying is it better to use the 11-12 million a year we would give Tomlinson to use towards one of the WR’s. Meaning we would need to kick in another 5-6 million in addition to the Tomlinson salary.
And then you have to go out a replace Tomlinson. Robinson is probably the only true #1n the group and I don't want to pay as much as that will take. Way too much to spend and the D takes a step back. Two bad results.
If it went down that way I envision them drafting another DT in round 2 or 3 in addition to Hill getting more reps. I just don’t know if I see the Giants signing LW and Tomlinson to long term deals. That’s a lot of cash to spend on the defensive line. Especially if they are anticipating resigning Lawrence in the next few years.
But if I am honest and dispassionate, getting a great WR, right now with this roster, is slightly more important than keeping the DL.
Receiver is probably a serious option with what's left.
I kind of felt that way when they drafted Lawrence a few years ago. That’s kind of been the Giants way the last decade or so. Linval Joseph, Cornelius Griffin, Barry Cofield, Jonathan Hankins. While those were all Reese decisions it wouldn’t surprise me to see the trend continue.
if he becomes too expensive in negotiating then he walks.
but it would be silly to have a preset view to not resign a very productive and young player.
as Sy mentioned in his note--- the team needs an identity. elite DL could be one if they retain their guys. it covers up a lot of other talent deficiencies on defense
Too many holes to fill if we sign LW, especially with so much riding on Jones this year...
I still think Tomlinson will be the biggest surprise of the offseason around here because he won't get the big offer some here assume he will get, and subsequently will be re-signed by big blue--maybe a 1 year deal.
Too many holes to fill if we sign LW, especially with so much riding on Jones this year...
I still just lose my mind when I see takes like this. You're telling me a team that has few impact players and a team that doesn't even pay many impact [player salaries at all, Martinez and Bradbury and maybe Zietler being the lone exceptions, now cannot afford to pay an impact 3/4 DE? Solider aint gonna be here much longer and neither will the contract. Same with Zietler. We can't pay 3-4 defensive impact players?
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don't re-sign LW and try to sign a few second tier WRs (either early or in the second or third wave after cuts) and target a quality G or C.
Too many holes to fill if we sign LW, especially with so much riding on Jones this year...
I still just lose my mind when I see takes like this. You're telling me a team that has few impact players and a team that doesn't even pay many impact [player salaries at all, Martinez and Bradbury and maybe Zietler being the lone exceptions, now cannot afford to pay an impact 3/4 DE? Solider aint gonna be here much longer and neither will the contract. Same with Zietler. We can't pay 3-4 defensive impact players?
They need to re-sign LW. Him and Bradbury are the only pro-bowl caliber players we have on D at the moment. I have a feeling McKinney could be special as well but time will tell.
I keep saying it but teams that win and are all in, pay about half their starters big time money. We are paying approx 1/4 of our roster big time money. Granted, some of these cheaper players are coming up on new deals, but they aren't due quite yet, and we don't even know for sure if each and every ascending player is going to get 2nd contracts here yet.
We really aren't paying many long term bigger contracts. The biggest ones are short term, guys like LW and Solder and Zietler.
You strive to pay a guy like Williams. That's exactly the kind of player we should be paying.
And we should be desperate - unfortunately - to find out if Jones is the solution. We can't half-ass it with Jones. He needs every resource to succeed or fail this year.
You strive to pay a guy like Williams. That's exactly the kind of player we should be paying.
Williams has been on the Giants since Oct 2019. For a team striving to pay him, they seem a little slower than you all to rip out their checkbook...
You won't say it--try it on for size. Leonard Williams is a great player.
I bet you won't agree.
Don’t turn a strength into mediocrity
You won't say it--try it on for size. Leonard Williams is a great player.
I bet you won't agree.
Leonard Williams is a good player. And he had some damn big games for the Giants last season...
Need a strong defense!
We don't need a #1 WR, we need functional WRs. Sign a mid level guy and draft a guy in the 2nd round.
As someone who hated to see Joseph walk, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison. The Giants didn't have Leonard Williams, Dexter Lawrence and BJ Hill on the IDL with Joseph. It was Joseph and Cullen Jenkins in the middle. Obviously the strength was at DE with Tuck, JPP and Kiwi.
I'd love to keep Tomlinson. But the offense is a mess and desperately needs playmakers.
You won't say it--try it on for size. Leonard Williams is a great player.
I bet you won't agree.
LW had a great year. Great player? Let's see some more of these 2020 seasons before we he wears the "great crown"..
Which is one of the reasons I'm willing to let LW walk. It's going to be a king's ransom AND it's really anyone's guess if he replicates another year. A year when so much was on the line for him personally.
I am still buying Graham stock and think he's got that Belichick ability to manufacture a pass rush without a stud.
Draft BPA at number 11. You can get a very good WR in the second round. I really like Terrace Marshall in the second and a big fan of Seth Williams in the third round.
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“I can really run routes,” Hardman said, via ESPN. “That kind of makes me mad when people say, ‘Oh, he’s just a deep ball threat.’ I literally can run routes very well. People don’t really see it because a lot of my routes are down the field. You’ve got Travis and Sammy and Tyreek for all that other stuff. They can do everything across the board. I can really run routes really well. I get out of my breaks very well. A lot of people think I can’t run routes. I’m like, ‘What?’ People have the misunderstanding that I can’t run routes. I’m very capable of running every route on the tree.”
The only question is: can he run routes?
I’d love to trade for him. Nice cheap contract which would give us a year or two to see what he can do. That being said, he’s Tyreek Hill insurance for KC. They basically drafted him fearing that Hill would be in deep shit with the league for that situation with his kid having his arm broken. Now they have Hardman if Hill loses his mind again or gets injured.
Draft BPA at number 11. You can get a very good WR in the second round. I really like Terrace Marshall in the second and a big fan of Seth Williams in the third round.
I understand your reasoning, but second round WR’s aren’t generally ready to be #1 guys in year 1. We need to give Jones a real threat to score on every play. Look at the teams in the top 4 this year. Rodgers has Adams, Mahomes has Hill and Kelce, Brady has Evans, Godwin, AB, Gronk, and Buffalo has Diggs.
I’m not saying a second round pick doesn’t have the potential to be great down the road, but counting on a second round pick to be the #1 receiver does not seem realistic.
Or another who never amounted to anything,
MeShit?
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but he isn't sacking Russel Wilson 3 times or sacking The Dallas QB in a big game.
You won't say it--try it on for size. Leonard Williams is a great player.
I bet you won't agree.
LW had a great year. Great player? Let's see some more of these 2020 seasons before we he wears the "great crown"..
Which is one of the reasons I'm willing to let LW walk. It's going to be a king's ransom AND it's really anyone's guess if he replicates another year. A year when so much was on the line for him personally.
I am still buying Graham stock and think he's got that Belichick ability to manufacture a pass rush without a stud.
You don't manufacture a passrush without talent either in the secondary and/or at the DT position. Pats had both.
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In comment 15153456 djm said:
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but he isn't sacking Russel Wilson 3 times or sacking The Dallas QB in a big game.
You won't say it--try it on for size. Leonard Williams is a great player.
I bet you won't agree.
LW had a great year. Great player? Let's see some more of these 2020 seasons before we he wears the "great crown"..
Which is one of the reasons I'm willing to let LW walk. It's going to be a king's ransom AND it's really anyone's guess if he replicates another year. A year when so much was on the line for him personally.
I am still buying Graham stock and think he's got that Belichick ability to manufacture a pass rush without a stud.
You don't manufacture a passrush without talent either in the secondary and/or at the DT position. Pats had both.
Yup, and if Graham has another season like this one you better believe he is getting a head coaching gig. Making personnel decisions based on the skill of a coordinator is dangerous. We need all the talent we can get. We make that trade for LW, he plays his ass off and now we want to just let him walk away? Makes no sense.
You don't manufacture a passrush without talent either in the secondary and/or at the DT position. Pats had both.
Well, I think we're damn close in the secondary for that part of the equation.
And the Pats didn't have big retail names at DT - did they?
My view on it is that if you're going to address one of these positions in FA (our own or someone else's) and one of these positions in the draft, then getting the immediate help at WR while letting the draftee on the DL rotate in with Hill, Lawrence, Williams (who I assume we'll re-sign, and hope we do this time around) should theoretically pay greater dividends than keeping the DL intact and hoping that a rookie WR is the secret sauce for the offense.
Sure, if we got ourselves this year's Justin Jefferson (or even CeeDee Lamb), we're sitting pretty and we have a potentially dominant DL to go along with it. But what if we get this year's Henry Ruggs or Jerry Jeudy? Those guys were dynamite WR prospects and may still become studs, but they weren't consistent contributors as rookies. And we need to know what we have in DJ, not to mention need to be able to score points if we're going to be a winning program in 2021.
I really like Tomlinson, I'd love to keep him. I fully recognize the dirty work he does on the line, and hope that someone can fill that gap without too much of a dropoff - no guarantee there. But if we're trying to build a team and not just one powerhouse position group, we need to shift some resources away from the DL, which is already a bit overlevered as it is.
On top of that, I think we need to add more than one WR. I'm not fully sold on Slayton (but remain optimistic that his chemistry with DJ from 2019 will return in a better offense), and I don't know if we can ever rely 100% on Shepard. We can go get a plug-and-play WR in FA, then add another WR from a deep class in the middle rounds of this year's draft (I'd love to add someone like Marquez Stevenson or Anthony Schwartz to the offense). That also frees up our top pick at #11 to take someone like Surtain or Parsons to bolster the back 7 on defense.
I just fundamentally do not agree with an over-allocation of assets and resources on the DL in today's NFL, unless it includes an unstoppable pass rush. Winning in the trenches is important, but I believe we have the pieces to still be stout along the DL without Tomlinson. I think his marginal value is less than what a true #1 WR would bring.
My view on it is that if you're going to address one of these positions in FA (our own or someone else's) and one of these positions in the draft, then getting the immediate help at WR while letting the draftee on the DL rotate in with Hill, Lawrence, Williams (who I assume we'll re-sign, and hope we do this time around) should theoretically pay greater dividends than keeping the DL intact and hoping that a rookie WR is the secret sauce for the offense.
Sure, if we got ourselves this year's Justin Jefferson (or even CeeDee Lamb), we're sitting pretty and we have a potentially dominant DL to go along with it. But what if we get this year's Henry Ruggs or Jerry Jeudy? Those guys were dynamite WR prospects and may still become studs, but they weren't consistent contributors as rookies. And we need to know what we have in DJ, not to mention need to be able to score points if we're going to be a winning program in 2021.
I really like Tomlinson, I'd love to keep him. I fully recognize the dirty work he does on the line, and hope that someone can fill that gap without too much of a dropoff - no guarantee there. But if we're trying to build a team and not just one powerhouse position group, we need to shift some resources away from the DL, which is already a bit overlevered as it is.
On top of that, I think we need to add more than one WR. I'm not fully sold on Slayton (but remain optimistic that his chemistry with DJ from 2019 will return in a better offense), and I don't know if we can ever rely 100% on Shepard. We can go get a plug-and-play WR in FA, then add another WR from a deep class in the middle rounds of this year's draft (I'd love to add someone like Marquez Stevenson or Anthony Schwartz to the offense). That also frees up our top pick at #11 to take someone like Surtain or Parsons to bolster the back 7 on defense.
I just fundamentally do not agree with an over-allocation of assets and resources on the DL in today's NFL, unless it includes an unstoppable pass rush. Winning in the trenches is important, but I believe we have the pieces to still be stout along the DL without Tomlinson. I think his marginal value is less than what a true #1 WR would bring.
Great post GD.