I don’t know why, they just don’t scream stud #1WR to me but rather, just are decent true #1 WRs. I guess Robinson is a bit more interesting since he performed in the trainwreck Chicago QB situation, but I’m struggling to see how they are great FA signings. Is it more of a beggars can’t be choosers situation?
Only 27 years old and always gave me this impression as a playmaker who never got a chance on a quality team.
You can't put Crowder in the same class with Golladay. Crowder is a nice player with top 30 ability. Golladay has elite upside.
Robinson will get tagged from all I have heard. He and Samuel would be who I would target.
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Jamison Crowder. rumor has it they might release him
Only 27 years old and always gave me this impression as a playmaker who never got a chance on a quality team.
You can't put Crowder in the same class with Golladay. Crowder is a nice player with top 30 ability. Golladay has elite upside.
he played 5 games last year, 5.
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In comment 15153767 Rory said:
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Jamison Crowder. rumor has it they might release him
Only 27 years old and always gave me this impression as a playmaker who never got a chance on a quality team.
You can't put Crowder in the same class with Golladay. Crowder is a nice player with top 30 ability. Golladay has elite upside.
he played 5 games last year, 5.
Look at the prior 2 seasons. He’s an excellent WR. If the Lions weren’t completely out of it by week 10 he would have been back for the last 2-3 weeks. It’s the only season he’s missed more than 1 game.
Yup, he’s Plax 2.0 for this franchise.
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I don't doubt that money is the likely key driver. But these players are also driven by individual accomplishments (greater production = greater $, pro bowls, maybe HoF consideration, etc) and the chance to one day walk away form the sport with the ultimate team honor - a SB ring.
Let's say Miami throws the same money we throw at Robinson. Where do you go?
One place also has a question mark at QB. But they have a team on the rise, a minority HC and GM, and great weather. And no state tax.
Or NYG?
What does a minority head coach have to do with his decision?
Yes, I have the same question. I'd love to hear your answer.
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In comment 15153485 bw in dc said:
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I don't doubt that money is the likely key driver. But these players are also driven by individual accomplishments (greater production = greater $, pro bowls, maybe HoF consideration, etc) and the chance to one day walk away form the sport with the ultimate team honor - a SB ring.
Let's say Miami throws the same money we throw at Robinson. Where do you go?
One place also has a question mark at QB. But they have a team on the rise, a minority HC and GM, and great weather. And no state tax.
Or NYG?
What does a minority head coach have to do with his decision?
I'm not sure, really. But it's certainly a factor with more and more athletes, right? So I'm not ruling it out.
Watson, for example, was pushing very heard for the Texans to hire a minority for HC and GM.
Hell, the NFL has the Rooney Rule and is thinking of way to making it more impactful.
I remember 15 years ago that the Giants were going to have to pay free agents an "@$$hole tax," and that most free agents were going to cross NYG off their lists due to TC.
After Eli's awful 1st season, Plaxico came to play for NYG....are you trying to tell me at that point Eli was a sure thing Super Bowl MVP? No...NOBODY save Archie and Olivia believed that at that time.
Free agents will go where they believe they can maximize their financial situation. Some will choose FL or TX due to the tax issue, but NY is still an attractive destination, with a young QB and the need for a #1 receiver. If a player comes here and delivers, they will make more $$ than they could possibly plan for.
If we listened to you bw, the Giants are 32nd rated destination in the NFL, and that's just not the case.
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but I don't think it's going to be an easy sell to say go from Trubisky to Daniel Jones.
Seriously, why should he do that?
Seriously, if you don't know that Jones is a much better QB than Trubisky you should take up watching pro bowlers tour....
I agree. Jones on his worst day has never looked as bad as Trubisky and Trubisky on his best day has never looked as good as Jones.
bw in dc is just miserable
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but I don't think it's going to be an easy sell to say go from Trubisky to Daniel Jones.
Seriously, why should he do that?
Seriously, if you don't know that Jones is a much better QB than Trubisky you should take up watching pro bowlers tour....
It's not a Trubisky to Jones comp. It's why play with Jones when you might be able to play with...
Wilson, Burrow, Herbert, Rodgers, Tua, Hurts, etc.
Free agents will go where they believe they can maximize their financial situation. Some will choose FL or TX due to the tax issue, but NY is still an attractive destination, with a young QB and the need for a #1 receiver. If a player comes here and delivers, they will make more $$ than they could possibly plan for.
If we listened to you bw, the Giants are 32nd rated destination in the NFL, and that's just not the case.
I hope you are right because we need to see what Jones can do in this critical third year. But to simply expect the biggest contract to win is a bit naive. There a lot of variables, and the league has changed over 15 years.
Hey we don’t have Aaron Rodgers and if the Packers made him a similar offer I’m fairly certain he’d be going to Green Bay. But other than money be comparable this is just more nonsense.
And the player and his agent(s) simply ignore all of the question marks and eagerly sign by "sign here ->".
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Free agents will go where they believe they can maximize their financial situation. Some will choose FL or TX due to the tax issue, but NY is still an attractive destination, with a young QB and the need for a #1 receiver. If a player comes here and delivers, they will make more $$ than they could possibly plan for.
If we listened to you bw, the Giants are 32nd rated destination in the NFL, and that's just not the case.
I hope you are right because we need to see what Jones can do in this critical third year. But to simply expect the biggest contract to win is a bit naive. There a lot of variables, and the league has changed over 15 years.
Never said it was solely about biggest contract....just pointing out that free agents go to all 32 teams every year, and the NYG are far from the bottom of the NFL pile, as you prefer to portray them.
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Free agents will go where they believe they can maximize their financial situation. Some will choose FL or TX due to the tax issue, but NY is still an attractive destination, with a young QB and the need for a #1 receiver. If a player comes here and delivers, they will make more $$ than they could possibly plan for.
If we listened to you bw, the Giants are 32nd rated destination in the NFL, and that's just not the case.
I hope you are right because we need to see what Jones can do in this critical third year. But to simply expect the biggest contract to win is a bit naive. There a lot of variables, and the league has changed over 15 years.
Never said it was solely about biggest contract....just pointing out that free agents go to all 32 teams every year, and the NYG are far from the bottom of the NFL pile, as you prefer to portray them.
IMO WRs want the ball and he just got the 3rd most targets in the league. He’d be fed here too.
Remember, people said nobody would want to play for Coach Coughlin except when they did.
Players go from contenders to non-contenders quite a bit if enough cash is thrown their way.
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Jamison Crowder. rumor has it they might release him
Only 27 years old and always gave me this impression as a playmaker who never got a chance on a quality team.
You can't put Crowder in the same class with Golladay. Crowder is a nice player with top 30 ability. Golladay has elite upside.
Crowder isn't a top 30 WR. He's a Shepard with marginally better YAC ability and probably not as good a route runner (or blocker) as Shepard. And he's often injured.
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Free agents will go where they believe they can maximize their financial situation. Some will choose FL or TX due to the tax issue, but NY is still an attractive destination, with a young QB and the need for a #1 receiver. If a player comes here and delivers, they will make more $$ than they could possibly plan for.
If we listened to you bw, the Giants are 32nd rated destination in the NFL, and that's just not the case.
I hope you are right because we need to see what Jones can do in this critical third year. But to simply expect the biggest contract to win is a bit naive. There a lot of variables, and the league has changed over 15 years.
Outside of Brady and his under the table earnings, can you point to a case where the biggest contract didn't win?
You can maybe argue Logan Ryan reupped with the Giants at below market value this year, but that's probably debatable. And you can say a lot about the Mara's, but they (the Giants) have a reputation for treating their players very well and often going above and beyond to take care of them (e.g. Ryan's situation).
Those factors are weighed differently based on where a player is in his career too. If Robinson was 32+ coming off a big contract, then I can easily see him taking less to play for a contender. But in the NFL, for non-QBs at least, your prime chance for a big payday is that 1st contract after your rookie deal. Age 26-28, with guys entering their prime is when they get the 5 yr deals that push the top salary for the position.
Even bw in dc knows this. That's why he hedged himself in his post and said (paraphrasing): if money is the same. And then conveniently used the no-income tax Miami as the comp so he can pretend Robinson is choosing Miami over the Giants because Jones sucks.
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In comment 15153425 bw in dc said:
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but I don't think it's going to be an easy sell to say go from Trubisky to Daniel Jones.
Seriously, why should he do that?
Seriously, if you don't know that Jones is a much better QB than Trubisky you should take up watching pro bowlers tour....
It's not a Trubisky to Jones comp. It's why play with Jones when you might be able to play with...
Wilson, Burrow, Herbert, Rodgers, Tua, Hurts, etc.
Tua is fucking trash, just stop.
Hurts over jones? We have nowhere near enough info to make that call. Same with herbert or burrow.
The seahawks arebt signing a WR wtf.
Do you even watch football or you just sit here and troll the board?
Your posts are doo doo
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In comment 15153717 section125 said:
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In comment 15153425 bw in dc said:
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but I don't think it's going to be an easy sell to say go from Trubisky to Daniel Jones.
Seriously, why should he do that?
Seriously, if you don't know that Jones is a much better QB than Trubisky you should take up watching pro bowlers tour....
It's not a Trubisky to Jones comp. It's why play with Jones when you might be able to play with...
Wilson, Burrow, Herbert, Rodgers, Tua, Hurts, etc.
Tua is fucking trash, just stop.
Hurts over jones? We have nowhere near enough info to make that call. Same with herbert or burrow.
The seahawks arebt signing a WR wtf.
Do you even watch football or you just sit here and troll the board?
Your posts are doo doo
I think you're the one who doesn't watch football. Yes we have enough information to say Herbert is better than Jones. Get real. it's not close. Have you watched Herbert? I suggest you find Greg Cosell's take on Herbert, who has elite physical and passing traits.
Tua is trash? That's probably an even more idiotic take.
You can really slice this to fit your argument. But money is typically he #1 reason, the rest is completely up to the player and what their preference is.
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Has top 8 talent.
Yup, he’s Plax 2.0 for this franchise.
On crutches and catching 4 balls a game.
Gimme a guy who gets 5+ catches a game. We need outside volume to balance this offense.
Tua is fucking trash, just stop.
Hurts over jones? We have nowhere near enough info to make that call. Same with herbert or burrow.
The seahawks arebt signing a WR wtf.
Do you even watch football or you just sit here and troll the board?
Your posts are doo doo
Tua doesn't impress me either. But Miami is a better team than the Giants, it's Florida, no state income tax, etc. So all things being equal, I could see a free agent choosing that situation over the situation in NY. Easily.
I'm even going to comment on Burrow and Herbert. They are better players than Jones right now, even after one year. Especially Herbert. Who is already knocking on the Elite Door...If you can't see that, well that's on you.
I'm not suggesting Hurts is better than Jones. But I could see why a free agent would choose Philly and Hurts over Jones. Sorry, but Jones is not a special player that's going to attract players.
Of the big 3 it would be Allen, Godwin, Golladay in that order.
Of the big 3 it would be Allen, Godwin, Golladay in that order.
100% agree on that order for the premium WRs. And Golladay is a full step down from Robinson and Godwin, IMO.
You like the guy who catches fewer passes and has not proven to be reliable with mediocre QB play the way that Robinson has?
You like Golladay better because you read a few articles back when rumors were flying about DG pursuing KG at the trade deadline. At least be honest about it - there's no other reason anyone would prefer Golladay over Robinson.
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if we doubled up on it and drafted a WR early to compliment him. Agreed on the volume, we need a chain mover too (which Allen Robinson also achieves) as I don't have the confidence that Shepard can stay healthy (he'd otherwise be in this role).
Of the big 3 it would be Allen, Godwin, Golladay in that order.
100% agree on that order for the premium WRs. And Golladay is a full step down from Robinson and Godwin, IMO.
Would agree those are the guys in that order as well.
And would not be entering into any deals with Leonard Williams or Tomlinson until I tested the waters a bit as to whether I was in the running for one of those top 2 wideout names.
Giants need to navigate the free agent waters a bit while keeping those two DTs on ice, if able.
I don't know how much the Giants should pay for a WR, but Robinson shouldn't be in the same breath as Golladay, he's one of the very best in the NFL.
You like the guy who catches fewer passes and has not proven to be reliable with mediocre QB play the way that Robinson has?
You like Golladay better because you read a few articles back when rumors were flying about DG pursuing KG at the trade deadline. At least be honest about it - there's no other reason anyone would prefer Golladay over Robinson.
Are you Allen Robinson’s agent? I just like Kenny Golladay better. I didn’t criticize Robinson. And it’s entirely possible that Robinson has been held back by bad QB play and an offense that rarely went down the field. But let’s not act like we’re comparing Jerry Rice and a bum.
Lanky? That’s not a word I would even remotely use to describe Golladay.
Randy Moss was 6'4" 210ish - i'd consider him lanky.
I don't know how much the Giants should pay for a WR, but Robinson shouldn't be in the same breath as Golladay, he's one of the very best in the NFL.
A-Rob is definitely top of my list for many reasons you mention.
Kenny Golladay is likely a #2 WR on a championship caliber team. His route tree isn't that diverse and he's mainly a deep threat/red zone threat. Don't get me wrong, Golladay is a great fit in the Giants offense, but he might not solve all of our problems.
Robinson is a very consistent player and Golladay is a bit more hit/miss with big play potential, both guys would be classified as average-ish #1 WRs with the potential to be Pro Bowlers in the right offense.
Don't forget that people were asking this type of question about Stefon Diggs not too long ago. Diggs wasn't considered an elite WR when he was at Minny. But he goes to the Bills and then he tears it up and his presence helps Josh Allen ascend to MVP levels.
Even if Robinson/Golladay don't become All Pro caliber like Diggs in a new offense, they're the kind of players who can put up big numbers and make an impact for the right offense. This team desperately needs WRs with the kind of skillsets they have so I wouldn't be opposed to overpaying them to sign here.
Here is the total amount of seasons this collection of players have played the entire season: 6
That's not good,
Of the 20 total seasons only Shepard has played in a single playoff game.
That's not good either.
Chicago tags Robinson
Tag for WR is 19m, and Chicago is over the cap, also needs to sign a QB.
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You like the guy who catches fewer passes and has not proven to be reliable with mediocre QB play the way that Robinson has?
You like Golladay better because you read a few articles back when rumors were flying about DG pursuing KG at the trade deadline. At least be honest about it - there's no other reason anyone would prefer Golladay over Robinson.
Are you Allen Robinson’s agent? I just like Kenny Golladay better. I didn’t criticize Robinson. And it’s entirely possible that Robinson has been held back by bad QB play and an offense that rarely went down the field. But let’s not act like we’re comparing Jerry Rice and a bum.
No, I'm not Robinson's agent. I'm a Giants fan, and I think Golladay's production is a bit of a mirage - one great season that was TD-heavy but not really top-tier reception volume, and then injury questions (and even Golladay's best season doesn't come close to Robinson's best season). I just don't think he's a bona fide #1 WR - we could get something approximating his exact replica in the 3rd or 4th round with Nico Collins or Simi Fehoko or Trevon Grimes. James Jones also had a monster TD season a few years ago, what did he do after that?
Giants fans are so thirsty for success that they only feel comfortable going back to familiar archetypes. Does the QB remind you of Eli? We have to have him! A WR that kinda fits the physical dimensions of Plaxico? Sign him up!
It's tiresome. Golladay is not on the same level as Robinson or Godwin, he's just not. His production isn't quite there. He's a #2 WR. Different skill set from Slayton, but same ceiling. Will I lose my mind if DG targets Golladay? No. I think the offense needs a major infusion of skill position talent, and I assume if DG pursues KG that it will be because JJ agreed that he's the right target, and/or because his price tag will be more amenable to building the rest of the roster. But just in terms of the best available WR talent, price-agnostic, Robinson and Godwin are both a cut above Golladay, IMO.
Aren't these two guys essentially the same player?
Kenny G scares the crap out of me.
Aren't these two guys essentially the same player?
Kenny G scares the crap out of me.
Not the way I see it. I think Godwin can effectively play the standard flanker role, whereas Shepard is slot only. We'd be relying on Slayton (+ a draft pick, presumably) to man the split end position.
Seriously, why should he do that?
Because Chicago can't afford to re-sign him.
He's going to have to be a biggest offer signing; there isn't any other way he lands here. But biggest offer isn't unrealistic.
I get it. You like Allen Robinson A LOT. That’s fine. But stop acting like Golladay is a replacement level bum receiver.
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but I don't think it's going to be an easy sell to say go from Trubisky to Daniel Jones.
Seriously, why should he do that?
Because Chicago can't afford to re-sign him.
He's going to have to be a biggest offer signing; there isn't any other way he lands here. But biggest offer isn't unrealistic.
What I mean is if Robinson decides to leave - forget the tag for a second - why would he want to leave one shaky QB for another?
I don't doubt money will be the driver, but if Robinson gets multiple high offers from different teams, I don't think it's unrealistic to think Jones is a deal-breaker.
I get it. You like Allen Robinson A LOT. That’s fine. But stop acting like Golladay is a replacement level bum receiver.
Scotty Miller has the best playoff y/c of any receiver who ever played with Tom Brady. Should we give him Randy's gold jacket?
Or can we use our brains and connect one metric with the rest of them?
Kenny Golladay is overrated, IMO, based on one good season and a body type that reminds Giants fans of Plaxico Burress. It is that latter point - the big-bodied WR resembling Plax - that I was suggesting could be replaced by Nico Collins, et al. My apologies for not making that more clear.
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In comment 15153425 bw in dc said:
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but I don't think it's going to be an easy sell to say go from Trubisky to Daniel Jones.
Seriously, why should he do that?
Because Chicago can't afford to re-sign him.
He's going to have to be a biggest offer signing; there isn't any other way he lands here. But biggest offer isn't unrealistic.
What I mean is if Robinson decides to leave - forget the tag for a second - why would he want to leave one shaky QB for another?
I don't doubt money will be the driver, but if Robinson gets multiple high offers from different teams, I don't think it's unrealistic to think Jones is a deal-breaker.
We know, you keep repeating it over and over. What are you looking for going on 2 straight days of the same posts?