In 2018.
Allen was such an obvious pick for the Giants at #2 in 2018. So so obvious. I was screaming for weeks before the 2018 draft that they could not pass on this Future Superstar QB. I've been proven 100% right.
Allen had the same Intangibles as Eli Manning did at Ole Miss (gamer, extreme competitor, carried a terrible team to Wins) all while possessing the most explosive arm talent the NFL had ever seen, and elite athleticism.
He was the perfect heir apparent to Eli, and the Giants passing on JA17 will go down as the worst draft decision in Franchise History. It's something we will never recover from.
Josh Allen is the Gold Jacket guy and was "touched by the hand of God", not the irrelevant Running Back.
Ha! This was quietly funny.
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of it, Josh Allen and John Jerry have the same amount of letters in their names!!
And they both have 2 first names! :-0
Always be wary of the Firsty Firsty.
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especially when you abide by the rule you dont pick a running back in the first round! we are now paying the huge price. What a waste!!
Are the Giants really paying a huge price for selecting Barkley over Darnold/Rosen?
They did have to buy a glass ROY case. Those things ain't cheap.
You can be a Giant fan and want Jones to succeed, but still come to grips that Josh Allen had a more productive first 2-year period.
rational people can definitely buy into this line of thinking.
This place isn't rational. it's extreme hot takes and platitudes.
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over a fairly harmless comparison.
You can be a Giant fan and want Jones to succeed, but still come to grips that Josh Allen had a more productive first 2-year period.
rational people can definitely buy into this line of thinking.
This place isn't rational. it's extreme hot takes and platitudes.
Agreed. Same goes with player salary debates and cap discussions, some posters seem to go apoplectic.
The irony, coming from one of BBI's pre-eminent dupes.
How are those coyotes, Denny?
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Another BS media narrative.
Allen's team was completely overmatched in every way shape or form.
ahhh yes.. but the Giants weren't right? Which teams did we play this year where we weren't overmatched vs the opponent?
You don't really know that however. No one really does.
It is one thing to claim the KC chiefs are playing at an elite level in the league -- it s quite another to say if the Giants are or not.
I honestly think that Golden Tate and or Shepherd have a good season in them ; even Evan Engram for that matter; had the Giants drafted a different Qb and a high-draft-pick hog molly instead of jones and Barkley.
Most fans don't want to hear the painful truth that bad drafting and trades ; does have consequences. It isn't the end of the franchise. But just the end of Giants football and meaningful games by Sept. for a few years.
Instead we're just going to pretend like if they get an elite line; elite TE; and elite WRs -- they can win with Jones and Barkely. Guess what? I can win at QB if you give me all that -- it's never going to happen.
I'm guessing you didn't realize that Mahomes was drafted before Engram did you, Einstein? 13 spots ahead of him, Encyclopedia Britannica.
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The team had just had a pretty good season and the head coach wanted desperately to draft Mahomes. Instead they drafted Evan Engram. A lot of people are more down on Engram than he deserves, but that could have been Patrick Mahomes...
I'm guessing you didn't realize that Mahomes was drafted before Engram did you, Einstein? 13 spots ahead of him, Encyclopedia Britannica.
Just a refresher on this.
The Chiefs were the 27th pick in round one that year. We were the 23rd pick in round one.
The Chiefs had 91st pick that year in the third round. We had the 87th pick in the third round.
The Chiefs traded the Bills their 27th pick, their 91st pick and their first round pick in 2018 to obtain Mahomes.
In 2017, the Chiefs won the AFCW and were presumed to be a playoff contender again in 2018. We were 3-13 and presumed to be going nowhere in 2018.
My point. We could have made the same deal with the Bills - in terms of # of picks and the specific rounds - and had a more attractive offer.
-- Our 2017 first rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- Our 2017 third rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- And it was very reasonable to conclude our first round pick in 2018 would have been more valuable than the Chiefs' (which ended up being accurate).
In other words, we missed out on a great opportunity to grab a real generational player because the great decision makers at Jints Central got cold feet. And choked.
The Giants Way. There is no substitute.
I would like you to dig up the thread(s) where you were posting about how we should go after Mahomes leading up to the draft that year.
Hindsight being 20/20, it's bw's way, there is no substitute.
Utterly worthless insight you bring to the board.
The Giants have had a great chance to land a true franchise QB draft pick sometime in the last 4 years, but failed. They failed for the reasons we discuss here all the time: nostalgia, luddism (I can't remember which poster used that word to describe them...but he was right), nepotism, and just a general blindness to the way the league has changed in the past decade.
When Mara should have been looking around the league to see which way the wind was blowing, he instead looked into his own past. Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson...those guys are nothing like Simms or, more importantly, Eli. Herbert may be a little more in how he plays, but by then we already had an Eli clone in Jones.
And the shit of it is that Jones isn't an Eli clone at all, and Mara doesn't realize it. If he realized it, he wouldn't have picked Garrett to mentor him...he would have picked someone more likely to exploit Jones's strengths and hide his weaknesses.
Dan Duggan said in his chat yesterday that another poor year in 2021 will mean a new GM and QB in 2022. Let's hope he's right, because based recent history another poor year is coming.
I am surprised we are still around when we took Phill Simms ... and left Joe Montana to be had by the 49'ers until the 3rd round? Are you kidding me ...?
This has to be the death blow.
Any stock prices in that crystal ball of yours?
I will pay you a service charge + percentage points Hon.
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In comment 15154691 HonCiv6 said:
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In comment 15154590 chopperhatch said:
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In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
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the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Yikes, this post is embarrassing.
Josh Allen accounted for 29 Touchdowns in Year 2 and led his team to the playoffs, without a #1 WR on his roster.
Daniel Jones accounted for 12 Touchdowns in Year 2, while starting the season 1-7 at the midway point.
29 TDs + 10-5 record (Not gonna count the Week 17 2019 loss where Allen played 1 series then sat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daniel Jones' 2nd year
Did you think you were going somewhere with this?
(Hint - u went nowhere, and actually disproved your own point, ironically)
No, the fact that this is your 3rd or 4th handle is embarassing. And what adult actually says "yikes?"
You have gotten completely destroyed onyour garbage OP.
Cant wait to see you show up again as ToyCam7.
You're so dumb, you can't even add.
Josh Allen had 30 passing TDs thru 2 years.
Josh Allen had 17 rushing TDs thru 2 years.
That means Josh Allen accounted for 47 Total Touchdowns thru 2 years.
47 Touchdowns. After 2 years.
1 passing TD counts the same as 1 rushing TD on the scoreboard.
You are making a fool of yourself.
Quit while you're ahead.
This is embarrassing.
I know you are but, what am I?
The Giants have had a great chance to land a true franchise QB draft pick sometime in the last 4 years, but failed. They failed for the reasons we discuss here all the time: nostalgia, luddism (I can't remember which poster used that word to describe them...but he was right), nepotism, and just a general blindness to the way the league has changed in the past decade.
When Mara should have been looking around the league to see which way the wind was blowing, he instead looked into his own past. Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson...those guys are nothing like Simms or, more importantly, Eli. Herbert may be a little more in how he plays, but by then we already had an Eli clone in Jones.
And the shit of it is that Jones isn't an Eli clone at all, and Mara doesn't realize it. If he realized it, he wouldn't have picked Garrett to mentor him...he would have picked someone more likely to exploit Jones's strengths and hide his weaknesses.
Dan Duggan said in his chat yesterday that another poor year in 2021 will mean a new GM and QB in 2022. Let's hope he's right, because based recent history another poor year is coming.
You neglect to point out that all of those guys save Herbert had very major question marks. Mahomes was viewed as raw and played in the defenseless Big 12. Watson supposedly had a weak arm and was proppoed up by how fantastic the team around him was. Jackson was looked at as being too reliant on his legs (still kinda true). Allen was looked at as exceptionally raw and inaccurate. So your argument is that 5 teams in 4 years drafted a QB that we could have (2 of which would have cost us a bunch to trade up for) so therefore the Maras have done a bad job because they didnt take a chance on breaking from their traditional preference in a QB?
Its as you said, all happened in the span of 4 fucking years. But by all means, lets ignore all of the many many many quirky college QB failures teams have experienced over the years because they wanted to beat everybody to the punch.
Go Terps : 12:52 am : link : reply
The Giants have been a poorly quarterbacked, poor offensive team for 4 seasons now. The first rounds of the last 4 drafts have yielded Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert. The Giants ended up with Jones, who is well below those five on every metric and the eye test.
Those drafts also yielded Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins and Jordan Love
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It's not just missing on Allen
Go Terps : 12:52 am : link : reply
The Giants have been a poorly quarterbacked, poor offensive team for 4 seasons now. The first rounds of the last 4 drafts have yielded Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert. The Giants ended up with Jones, who is well below those five on every metric and the eye test.
Those drafts also yielded Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins and Jordan Love
Not to mention the fact that Herbert stayed in school the year Jones was drafted. While Lamar Jackson is one of the most fun QBs to watch, I'm not sure how long he lasts and still not sure of his passing. I am enjoying watching him on Baltimore..
Watson I loved coming out of college. Mahomes I never heard of until he was drafted.
I would like you to dig up the thread(s) where you were posting about how we should go after Mahomes leading up to the draft that year.
Hindsight being 20/20, it's bw's way, there is no substitute.
Utterly worthless insight you bring to the board.
Forget my opinion. Here’s what matters on this: McAdoo wanted to make THIS move.
Of all the guys in that draft room April 27, the much ridiculed McAdoo (the last coach to get us into the playoffs) was the guy who knew it was time to begin the transition from Eli. And he recognized Mahomes had the gifts to be next great Giant.
So simple question - would you rather have Mahomes now or Jones?
And if Jones becomes a good QB then nobody should care about the above. And if he doesn't, then the Giants will need to start the process over again at some point, most likely with a different GM because people will care about the above.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
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It's not just missing on Allen
Go Terps : 12:52 am : link : reply
The Giants have been a poorly quarterbacked, poor offensive team for 4 seasons now. The first rounds of the last 4 drafts have yielded Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert. The Giants ended up with Jones, who is well below those five on every metric and the eye test.
Those drafts also yielded Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins and Jordan Love
Yes. Those guys were also misses. The Giants aren't the only team to screw up. If you want to take comfort in that, that's up to you.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
Let me know when you get an answer because everything I ask it its crickets. Are we storming Metlife?
That’s a stretch. I’ll give you Rosen & Haskins.
And if Jones becomes a good QB then nobody should care about the above. And if he doesn't, then the Giants will need to start the process over again at some point, most likely with a different GM because people will care about the above.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
The most beneficial outcome for the franchise is Jones has the goods.
He is going to get the opportunity to prove it.
It was always going to be that way once they drafted him at 6.
I know year 2 sucked, but Covid, brand new OL, shit receivers and no Barkley.
I am the guy on this board that continually whines about excuses but even I must acknowledge the hardships that his second year presented.
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
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In comment 15156157 Go Terps said:
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
Indeed the stats do not bear out that Trubisky is more inaccurate than Jones. Trubisky's career comp pct is 64.0. This season he was 67.0. Jones' career % is 62.2. In 2020 he was 62.5.
There is a myth perpetuated on this board that Jones is very accurate. He is not an accurate QB. I think the myth persists because Jones often throws a nice looking ball - a lovely spiral, especially on his big plays. But Jones often mucks up simple plays with throws to the wrong side, over the heads and to the feet of receivers. A few of these terrible passes have cost us games. Jones remains one of the least accurate starting QBs in the NFL.
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In comment 15156157 Go Terps said:
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
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In comment 15156301 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15156157 Go Terps said:
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
This eye test, very subjective. My wife is as crazy a football fan as I am. The teams often play at the same time so my living room has 3 TVs and the Sunday Ticket. I see all of their games. If weight Jones' year 2 heavy I get it. I am not Jones lover at this point but I would rather him than Trubisky, there is more games to see what he is. I hate excuses, but I give the excuses for his second year decline legitimate consideration.
I am not a Jones believer. But the solution to Jones is not to bring in another team's bust. Trubisky has been more accurate than Jones but he has been pretty bad too and not an answer for a team searching for a franchise QB.
Daniel Jones isn't an elite QB and he's not good enough to overcome the lack of good players around him. But when he's completing a higher than normal % of downfield balls despite that, and is battling with probably a lot of confidence issues throwing to guys like Engram, its a recipe for failure.
It is ok to recognize that Jones isn't a great QB and also understand that his team isn't helping him much, and making it a lot harder for him to excel.
Swap Allen Robinson for Shepard and i'm wondering how much worse Trubisky would look and how much better Jones would be. I know speculation is a no no but what other choice do we have?
You do realize thst Machines was drafted before the giants pick right?
Useless to look backward though. Gettleman was retained and we have Barkley and Jones in 2021. If the team stinks again, we’ll try and push Gettleman out again and maybe it’ll finally work out.
No use in driving yourself nuts over it in February. Hopefully Gettleman can finally put together a decent team here because all this losing sucks.
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were drafted by other NFL teams while the Giants were still screwing around with Eli Manning and then focusing in on Daniel Jones.
And if Jones becomes a good QB then nobody should care about the above. And if he doesn't, then the Giants will need to start the process over again at some point, most likely with a different GM because people will care about the above.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
Solid. Jones was always getting year 3 if DG got year 3. Make peace with it.
The most beneficial outcome for the franchise is Jones has the goods.
He is going to get the opportunity to prove it.
It was always going to be that way once they drafted him at 6.
I know year 2 sucked, but Covid, brand new OL, shit receivers and no Barkley.
I am the guy on this board that continually whines about excuses but even I must acknowledge the hardships that his second year presented.
Those tired excuses of covid ; new o-line blah blah. Don't forget what everyone was saying about Brady and the Bucs in weeks 1 & 2. "Brady is now learning that the Buccaneers are not the patriots". They played bad for weeks 1 & 2. They didn't lose every freakin game up and until the bye week. And also win one with Colt Mccoy as their starting QB.
Gettle had to prove he really saw something in Jones to draft him that high. So far he proved to be clueless buffoon. Just to give you a frame of reference Dan marino was drafted 20th. Just think about that.
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In comment 15155743 Angus said:
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The team had just had a pretty good season and the head coach wanted desperately to draft Mahomes. Instead they drafted Evan Engram. A lot of people are more down on Engram than he deserves, but that could have been Patrick Mahomes...
I'm guessing you didn't realize that Mahomes was drafted before Engram did you, Einstein? 13 spots ahead of him, Encyclopedia Britannica.
Just a refresher on this.
The Chiefs were the 27th pick in round one that year. We were the 23rd pick in round one.
The Chiefs had 91st pick that year in the third round. We had the 87th pick in the third round.
The Chiefs traded the Bills their 27th pick, their 91st pick and their first round pick in 2018 to obtain Mahomes.
In 2017, the Chiefs won the AFCW and were presumed to be a playoff contender again in 2018. We were 3-13 and presumed to be going nowhere in 2018.
My point. We could have made the same deal with the Bills - in terms of # of picks and the specific rounds - and had a more attractive offer.
-- Our 2017 first rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- Our 2017 third rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- And it was very reasonable to conclude our first round pick in 2018 would have been more valuable than the Chiefs' (which ended up being accurate).
In other words, we missed out on a great opportunity to grab a real generational player because the great decision makers at Jints Central got cold feet. And choked.
The Giants Way. There is no substitute.
And this whole mahomes BS. It is one thing to be drafting in the 20s and be in win now mode and trade up. It is quite another when you're picking 6th and your franchise has gone nowhere for 6 seasons, and josh is just sitting out there waiting.
I think you have the wrong Josh Allen there, Einstein.
I think you have the wrong Josh Allen there, Einstein.
Picking 2nd whatever. You know what I am talking about. I am saying it pretty clearly
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in the fuck are you talking about??
I think you have the wrong Josh Allen there, Einstein.
Picking 2nd whatever. You know what I am talking about. I am saying it pretty clearly
He doesn't care what you are talking about. If you aren't defending the Giants, he is just looking for the real value-add stuff like this...
LOL. Glad to see the fuckstick dupe back with us pulling the same shit.
Concern yourself with that compelling retort you gave the poster above to his topic. That looks to be more your speed on threads these days...