In 2018.
Allen was such an obvious pick for the Giants at #2 in 2018. So so obvious. I was screaming for weeks before the 2018 draft that they could not pass on this Future Superstar QB. I've been proven 100% right.
Allen had the same Intangibles as Eli Manning did at Ole Miss (gamer, extreme competitor, carried a terrible team to Wins) all while possessing the most explosive arm talent the NFL had ever seen, and elite athleticism.
He was the perfect heir apparent to Eli, and the Giants passing on JA17 will go down as the worst draft decision in Franchise History. It's something we will never recover from.
Josh Allen is the Gold Jacket guy and was "touched by the hand of God", not the irrelevant Running Back.
+1.
Small school/lower comp, and inaccurate.
I was totally wrong on him. All his big plays in college came of broken / extended plays - which I did not think he'd be able to pull off against nfl talent.
I definitely wouldn't have taken him, but as I said, good for him and his development.
Good chance the Pats bounce back and the Jets and Dolphins should both improve.
Bill will paying him big money soon. That is where things can get tough if you don't draft very well.
Really nice start to his career and I hope he continues but nothing is guaranteed.
Stefon Diggs never made 1 Pro Bowl and never had a 1200 yard season before Josh Allen came along.
What are you on right now?
Allen is significantly better than Jones. At pretty much everything.
More accurate, much much stronger arm, better athlete, better pocket presence and feel for the rush, better leader.
Allen would have done far better than Jones, because Allen is a lot better than Jones, and that is a fact.
Arizona Cardinals had Josh Allen as the #1 overall player on their big board.
Bills got wind of that, and traded up from 12 to 7 to leapfrog the Cardinals who were picking 10.
Another BS media narrative.
Allen's team was completely overmatched in every way shape or form.
Allen took the 2020 Bills as far as humanly possible. No human could have gotten the 2020 Bills any further than Allen got them.
Allen finished 2nd in MVP voting, singlehandedly beat the Colts in the Wild Card round, and got his team to the Conference Championship where they ran into a superior team from top to bottom.
The logic in this thread can be applied any year. Maybe the Giants never got over passing on Brady. They could have won more than 2 SBs that they got from Eli.
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Insert Allen into our offense last year and he would of done about as well as Jones did. Allen finally played well because they gave him a major weapon.
What are you on right now?
Allen is significantly better than Jones. At pretty much everything.
More accurate, much much stronger arm, better athlete, better pocket presence and feel for the rush, better leader.
Allen would have done far better than Jones, because Allen is a lot better than Jones, and that is a fact.
Allen has had one accurate year in his entire life. Guy was completing less than 60% of his passes in high school. Guy has one good season under his belt and he didnt do shit in the postseason. How many offensive touchdown drives did the great josh allen lead in the post season? I think they scored like 3 offensive touchdowns in 3 games and one of the drives started inside the opponents 5 yard line.
I don't care what he's done on a big stage so far, he is miles ahead of Jones at this point. Sorry if reality is unpleasant for you.
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In comment 15154310 Straw Hat said:
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Insert Allen into our offense last year and he would of done about as well as Jones did. Allen finally played well because they gave him a major weapon.
What are you on right now?
Allen is significantly better than Jones. At pretty much everything.
More accurate, much much stronger arm, better athlete, better pocket presence and feel for the rush, better leader.
Allen would have done far better than Jones, because Allen is a lot better than Jones, and that is a fact.
Allen has had one accurate year in his entire life. Guy was completing less than 60% of his passes in high school. Guy has one good season under his belt and he didnt do shit in the postseason. How many offensive touchdown drives did the great josh allen lead in the post season? I think they scored like 3 offensive touchdowns in 3 games and one of the drives started inside the opponents 5 yard line.
3 offensive TDs vs IND
1 offensive TD vs BAL in 30 mph winds, which was enough to win
2 offensive TDs vs KC
So, that would 6 total Offensive Touchdowns. 6...not 3.
Hey - nice try tho.
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I’d like to see more of him on a big stage before I go putting him ahead of Jones.
I don't care what he's done on a big stage so far, he is miles ahead of Jones at this point. Sorry if reality is unpleasant for you.
This.
A lot of posters want to avoid reality.
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I’d like to see more of him on a big stage before I go putting him ahead of Jones.
I don't care what he's done on a big stage so far, he is miles ahead of Jones at this point. Sorry if reality is unpleasant for you.
This.
A lot of posters want to avoid reality.
The logic in this thread can be applied any year. Maybe the Giants never got over passing on Brady. They could have won more than 2 SBs that they got from Eli.
Absolutely not true.
If the Giants were going QB over Saquon, it was Allen all the way.
Allen over Darnold.
The Giants regime loves big, gamer QBs who elevate the talent around them. They loved Daniel Jones. They loved Justin Herbert. Who has a similar draft profile to those 2, Allen or Darnold? The answer is Allen.
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In comment 15154340 HonCiv6 said:
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In comment 15154310 Straw Hat said:
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3 offensive TDs vs IND
1 offensive TD vs BAL in 30 mph winds, which was enough to win
2 offensive TDs vs KC
So, that would 6 total Offensive Touchdowns. 6...not 3.
Hey - nice try tho.
You’re right. I forgot to add in the wild card game td’s. Doesn’t change the fact he was lowsy against the ravens and chiefs.
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He was never on the Giants radar and the same can be said for most teams. If not Barkley, just about every account had the giants taking Darnold if they took a QB. Every single one of the top QBs that year had significant issue. And, prior to this year nobody here wanted to touch Allen.
The logic in this thread can be applied any year. Maybe the Giants never got over passing on Brady. They could have won more than 2 SBs that they got from Eli.
Absolutely not true.
If the Giants were going QB over Saquon, it was Allen all the way.
Allen over Darnold.
The Giants regime loves big, gamer QBs who elevate the talent around them. They loved Daniel Jones. They loved Justin Herbert. Who has a similar draft profile to those 2, Allen or Darnold? The answer is Allen.
Josh Allen had the #1 highest completion% from INSIDE the pocket.
His numbers outside the pocket, actually dragged his overall completion% DOWN.
Link - ( New Window )
Teams wins titles not QBs.
Teams wins titles not QBs.
Agreed. Too bad for us.
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In comment 15154360 Straw Hat said:
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In comment 15154340 HonCiv6 said:
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In comment 15154310 Straw Hat said:
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3 offensive TDs vs IND
1 offensive TD vs BAL in 30 mph winds, which was enough to win
2 offensive TDs vs KC
So, that would 6 total Offensive Touchdowns. 6...not 3.
Hey - nice try tho.
You’re right. I forgot to add in the wild card game td’s. Doesn’t change the fact he was lowsy against the ravens and chiefs.
Except he wasn't. 0 turnovers in 30 mph winds against Ravens, and the game was essentially over in the 3rd quarter, so he didn't need to be aggressive trying to score from that point on. The QB played a clean, turnover-free game in brutal conditions (30 mph winds)
Allen finished 2nd in MVP voting and deserved to win the MVP. He was the single most valuable player to his team in 2020. More valuable than Rodgers. He led his team to the AFC title game with 0 running game and a mediocre defense. No human could have done better.
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In comment 15154354 Matt M. said:
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He was never on the Giants radar and the same can be said for most teams. If not Barkley, just about every account had the giants taking Darnold if they took a QB. Every single one of the top QBs that year had significant issue. And, prior to this year nobody here wanted to touch Allen.
The logic in this thread can be applied any year. Maybe the Giants never got over passing on Brady. They could have won more than 2 SBs that they got from Eli.
Absolutely not true.
If the Giants were going QB over Saquon, it was Allen all the way.
Allen over Darnold.
The Giants regime loves big, gamer QBs who elevate the talent around them. They loved Daniel Jones. They loved Justin Herbert. Who has a similar draft profile to those 2, Allen or Darnold? The answer is Allen.
Based on what? Pretty much every account of the draft going in was Barkley or Darnold. Allen wasn't a blip. If he was, we didn't know about it and likely never will.
No it wasn't. The Giants were never interested in Darnold. They were NEVER taking Darnold. Pat Shurmur's favorite QB in the draft was Allen - this was an actual report.
You are making things up.
Why isn't Darnold issued here? He was the one everybody was clamoring for. Oh, right.
Not really fair. He improved from year 1 to year 2 and improved again year 2 to year 3, as you would like to see with a young QB, especially one coming from a small school that faced lower level comp.
Mike, are you thinking Bengals or Browns after the Mara's file for bankruptcy?
But there were valid concerns about him making the jump from Wyoming to the NFL. FFS he was a 56% passer with a 16-6 TD to INT ratio his final year, a junior entry, and threw for only 1800 yards in 11 games. You never say never on taking a player like that high, but if there is a cleaner prospect, it's very difficult to take a project like that #2 overall.
Finally, I believe when all is said and done there won't be regrets on Barkley like there is now because of the injury problems.
And further, this is Allen's 3rd year, and he's now getting the recognition for being a franchise QB. Daniel Jones has yet to begin his 3rd year. Give him that chance.
Haha you win!
Next up?
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In comment 15154379 HonCiv6 said:
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In comment 15154354 Matt M. said:
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He was never on the Giants radar and the same can be said for most teams. If not Barkley, just about every account had the giants taking Darnold if they took a QB. Every single one of the top QBs that year had significant issue. And, prior to this year nobody here wanted to touch Allen.
The logic in this thread can be applied any year. Maybe the Giants never got over passing on Brady. They could have won more than 2 SBs that they got from Eli.
Absolutely not true.
If the Giants were going QB over Saquon, it was Allen all the way.
Allen over Darnold.
The Giants regime loves big, gamer QBs who elevate the talent around them. They loved Daniel Jones. They loved Justin Herbert. Who has a similar draft profile to those 2, Allen or Darnold? The answer is Allen.
Based on what? Pretty much every account of the draft going in was Barkley or Darnold. Allen wasn't a blip. If he was, we didn't know about it and likely never will.
No it wasn't. The Giants were never interested in Darnold. They were NEVER taking Darnold. Pat Shurmur's favorite QB in the draft was Allen - this was an actual report.
You are making things up.
Did you watch Mahomes in the Super Bowl? In a vacuum, Josh Allen is a better QB than Mahomes. Bigger, stronger, faster, tougher, better arm, better athlete, plays a grittier game when things aren't perfect.
McAdoo said he would have drafted Josh Allen with the #2 pick in 2018. Allen was his #1 QB that year.
We fired McAdoo 1 offseason too early.
If McAdoo doesn't get fired in 2017 - Josh Allen is a Giant as we speak.
Teams wins titles not QBs.
Why did we acquire Tittle??? We should have waited for Josh Allen!!!
Sorry, they shot their wad with Unitas. They'll never be any good ever again.
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that even an obvious troll with an idiotic OP gets this much activity?
Mike, are you thinking Bengals or Browns after the Mara's file for bankruptcy?
I'll probably just go into a time warp and pretend it is 1981. Each Sunday during the season I will just watch the same week's game from then on all the way through 2011. By then there should be some expansion team I can glom onto.
He brought us in real low. But he couldn't handle it.
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But fuck Josh Allen... If only Jerry Reese listened to Ben McAdoo and traded up for Mahomes...
Did you watch Mahomes in the Super Bowl? In a vacuum, Josh Allen is a better QB than Mahomes. Bigger, stronger, faster, tougher, better arm, better athlete, plays a grittier game when things aren't perfect.
McAdoo said he would have drafted Josh Allen with the #2 pick in 2018. Allen was his #1 QB that year.
We fired McAdoo 1 offseason too early.
If McAdoo doesn't get fired in 2017 - Josh Allen is a Giant as we speak.
McAdoo also wanted Patrick Mahomes. He was an awful coach who would've ruined both. Who cares what he thinks?
The mocks and fans all saw Darnold. Flash forward three years and it hasn't been so rosey for the one guy they were screeching for - so they go for the 3rd QB selected. Funny how the Rosen chatter is non existent now too when he was yet another one so many were salivating over.
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will never get over Macho Grande.
He brought us in real low. But he couldn't handle it.
Buddy couldn't handle it. Was buddy one of your crew?
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"Allen was such an obvious pick for the Giants at #2 in 2018"
Arizona Cardinals had Josh Allen as the #1 overall player on their big board.
Bills got wind of that, and traded up from 12 to 7 to leapfrog the Cardinals who were picking 10.
AZ wasn't picking 10th when Bills traded up... Oooppsss they were already picking ahead of AZ who had the 15th pick... Guess you just make stuff up though. No one had Josh Allen as the #1 QB. They had Sam Darnold and Brad Mayfield. People who are made we took Barkley... you really want Darnold over Barkley? I would of hated to have Darnold here and that would have been the pick not Josh Allen who was a super boom or bust. He boomed good for the Bills.
Or were you too busy at that time preparing for middle school graduation?
Another BS media narrative.
Allen's team was completely overmatched in every way shape or form.
ahhh yes.. but the Giants weren't right? Which teams did we play this year where we weren't overmatched vs the opponent?
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In comment 15154407 pjcas18 said:
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will never get over Macho Grande.
He brought us in real low. But he couldn't handle it.
Buddy couldn't handle it. Was buddy one of your crew?
Buddy was the bombardier. But it was Striker who couldn't handle it, and he went to pieces.
Like you and the rest of the crew would have loved them passing over QB in the 2019 Draft.
Haskins! Funny that isn't talked about either. Those revisionist folk. They're a teensy one sided here.
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In comment 15154479 BamaBlue said:
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In comment 15154407 pjcas18 said:
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will never get over Macho Grande.
He brought us in real low. But he couldn't handle it.
Buddy couldn't handle it. Was buddy one of your crew?
Buddy was the bombardier. But it was Striker who couldn't handle it, and he went to pieces.
Andy went to piece?
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Because of that, there’s really no point in discussing this.
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the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
I wouldn't call not taking Allen a mistake or a miss. It simply was not happening. Jones only has to either back up his pick...unless you were referring to the defensive Josh Allen
Lets also not forget that the Bills traded up as high as they could to take ANY QB. Not necessarily Allen. Jets traded ahead of Buffalo to get to 3 to get whomever was leftover in that draft. If the Giants take Darnold,the Jets prob take Allen and then the Bills take Rosen. There really was no smoke about which QB the Bills wanted.
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the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
I wouldn't call not taking Allen a mistake or a miss. It simply was not happening. Jones only has to either back up his pick...unless you were referring to the defensive Josh Allen
We've been through this about a thousand times, but it's a miss by virtue of the position - QB v RB.
The Giants gambled on the safety of traditional football over modern football.
So far that gamble hasn't paid off...
THIS! Not to mention that he played like shit in the playoffs.
The year before; I recall that McAdoo begged the Giants brass for him.
Instead, Andy Reid leap-frogged everybody and snatched from Texas Tech.
The year before; I recall that McAdoo begged the Giants brass for him.
Instead, Andy Reid leap-frogged everybody and snatched from Texas Tech.
Per JonC, McAdoo was pushing very hard. And if you look at the deal the Chiefs packaged, we could have EASILY matched that. No problem, especially since we had a higher first to offer.
Chiefs were playing chess...
Very few QB's have ever overcome the flaw of inaccuracy and the issue had dogged Allen from high school. Everyone recognized the potential and, at the same time, the high risk.
It worked out, but as late as last year he was the most inaccurate passer in the league in throws past twenty yards.
Yep. That guy used to make up stats too. Said something like Jerry had the most pancake blocks and didn't give up any sacks, despite any stat view showing otherwise.
This fucking troll is making up shit about Allen being the Giants target in the draft when all accounts had us taking Darnold or Chubb.
At least with allen there is a way to frame him as a good player. That was impossible with John Jerry.
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In comment 15154484 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 15154479 BamaBlue said:
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In comment 15154407 pjcas18 said:
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will never get over Macho Grande.
He brought us in real low. But he couldn't handle it.
Buddy couldn't handle it. Was buddy one of your crew?
Buddy was the bombardier. But it was Striker who couldn't handle it, and he went to pieces.
Andy went to piece?
No. Andy was the navigator. He was all right. Buddy went to pieces. It was awful how he came unglued.
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sound like the John Jerry troll.
Yep. That guy used to make up stats too. Said something like Jerry had the most pancake blocks and didn't give up any sacks, despite any stat view showing otherwise.
This fucking troll is making up shit about Allen being the Giants target in the draft when all accounts had us taking Darnold or Chubb.
At least with allen there is a way to frame him as a good player. That was impossible with John Jerry.
But, if they had to pick a QB and their thoughts reflected those of BBI's (which obviously is as far a stretch as there ever cold be), pretty much all of the discussion would center on Darnold/Rosen with Allen and even Jackson being a minor afterthought.
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In comment 15154504 BamaBlue said:
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In comment 15154484 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 15154479 BamaBlue said:
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In comment 15154407 pjcas18 said:
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will never get over Macho Grande.
He brought us in real low. But he couldn't handle it.
Buddy couldn't handle it. Was buddy one of your crew?
Buddy was the bombardier. But it was Striker who couldn't handle it, and he went to pieces.
Andy went to piece?
No. Andy was the navigator. He was all right. Buddy went to pieces. It was awful how he came unglued.
Howie came unglued?
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Only other option discussed at that late juncture was if Barkley was gone and a trade down offer blew Gettleman out of the water. Dave Gettleman made light of the offers he received at first but then later admitted he got at least one very reasonable offer to trade down.
It was never going to be a QB.
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sound like the John Jerry troll.
Yep. That guy used to make up stats too. Said something like Jerry had the most pancake blocks and didn't give up any sacks, despite any stat view showing otherwise.
This fucking troll is making up shit about Allen being the Giants target in the draft when all accounts had us taking Darnold or Chubb.
At least with allen there is a way to frame him as a good player. That was impossible with John Jerry.
Dont forget about the tree trunk legs....
Look at the registration date.
But Jinth Thentral in dthee loves him.
But which Josh Allen? The pass rusher has a lot of gripers here.
Im so sick of dealing with these stooges. It would be okay if it was for just a few weeks around playoff time or when one player is more successful than the other for a few weeks, but this is a 12 month thing with usual suspects. How pointless.
Oh, no. Howie was a rock, the best tailgunner in the outfit. Buddy came unglued.
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Insert Allen into our offense last year and he would of done about as well as Jones did. Allen finally played well because they gave him a major weapon.
THIS! Not to mention that he played like shit in the playoffs.
Josh Allen singlehandedly beat the Colts in the playoffs.
Might want to go back and rewatch that game.
Singlehandedly winning a playoff game =/= "playing like shit"
Weird.
Because of that, there’s really no point in discussing this.
Riiiiiiight.....because the Buffalo Bills, I repeat, the BUFFALO BILLS, were such a QB/Offensive juggernaut franchise in the 20 years before Josh Allen fell from the heavens and landed in their lap...
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the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Your typical bluster aside, has Jones paid a good dividend yet after two cracks at it? Pretty straightforward question.
Now, it's interesting the information you left our of your "analysis" of Allen. The Bills made the playoffs in the his second season. Going 10-6. And without Diggs.
Did you notice Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2 vs Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2?
Further, I noticed you left our Allen's rushing stats in YR2. He had 510 yards rushing and 9 TDs. Thoughts on that?
So Allen accounted for 29 total TDs in YR2. Jones? 12 total TDs in YR2.
Now that you have more intel, do you think Allen paid a dividend in YR2?
Please tell me you’re joking here...
In his first two years, Daniel Jones had 8-18 record as a starter, 35 Pass TDs, 3 Rush TDs, 1 4QTR Comeback, and 2 GW Drives.
To suggest their first two seasons were very similar is just simply not true.
Someone remind me why we can't have a waiting period before new members can start threads?
Probably the same reason why Simo, Denny, and Grizz are allowed to keep coming back after being banned.
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the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Yikes, this post is embarrassing.
Josh Allen accounted for 29 Touchdowns in Year 2 and led his team to the playoffs, without a #1 WR on his roster.
Daniel Jones accounted for 12 Touchdowns in Year 2, while starting the season 1-7 at the midway point.
29 TDs + 10-5 record (Not gonna count the Week 17 2019 loss where Allen played 1 series then sat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daniel Jones' 2nd year
Did you think you were going somewhere with this?
(Hint - u went nowhere, and actually disproved your own point, ironically)
In his first two years, Daniel Jones had 8-18 record as a starter, 35 Pass TDs, 3 Rush TDs, 1 4QTR Comeback, and 2 GW Drives.
To suggest their first two seasons were very similar is just simply not true.
This!
People have lost their minds on here.
Josh Allen's 1st 2 years blows Daniel Jones' 1st 2 years out of the water.
Not comparable at all!!! Josh Allen leaps and bounds better 1st 2 years. Not close.
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In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
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the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Your typical bluster aside, has Jones paid a good dividend yet after two cracks at it? Pretty straightforward question.
Now, it's interesting the information you left our of your "analysis" of Allen. The Bills made the playoffs in the his second season. Going 10-6. And without Diggs.
Did you notice Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2 vs Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2?
Further, I noticed you left our Allen's rushing stats in YR2. He had 510 yards rushing and 9 TDs. Thoughts on that?
So Allen accounted for 29 total TDs in YR2. Jones? 12 total TDs in YR2.
Now that you have more intel, do you think Allen paid a dividend in YR2?
No I stopped typing you dickhead.
The point I was making, was that one had an exceptional rookie year,and then fell off in year 2 along with his top offensive weapon, a new system and a far inferior offensive team. The other had a pretty below average rookie season and improved 2nd season.
I didnt leave anything out. Notice how I completely left out Jones 2nd season, because I knew it would be lost on you. TD-INT: Allen had 30-21, Jones 35-22 thru 2 seasons.
Seriously you are a fraud. Your arguments suck. Even this one where I gave typing because I didnt feel you were worth the effort.
Go pump up that 6'3 190 bod.
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In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
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the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Yikes, this post is embarrassing.
Josh Allen accounted for 29 Touchdowns in Year 2 and led his team to the playoffs, without a #1 WR on his roster.
Daniel Jones accounted for 12 Touchdowns in Year 2, while starting the season 1-7 at the midway point.
29 TDs + 10-5 record (Not gonna count the Week 17 2019 loss where Allen played 1 series then sat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daniel Jones' 2nd year
Did you think you were going somewhere with this?
(Hint - u went nowhere, and actually disproved your own point, ironically)
No, the fact that this is your 3rd or 4th handle is embarassing. And what adult actually says "yikes?"
You have gotten completely destroyed onyour garbage OP.
Cant wait to see you show up again as ToyCam7.
Quote:
.
Someone remind me why we can't have a waiting period before new members can start threads?
Probably the same reason why Simo, Denny, and Grizz are allowed to keep coming back after being banned.
Whats better is the mods defend themselves by saying they check IP addresses and blah blah blah. Yet every year, around now through draft time and at the start of the season we get the same moronic posters who pop up and torture the board for a few months before recycling their identities.
Quote:
In his first two years, Josh Allen had 15-11 record as a starter, 30 Pass TDs, 17 Rush TDs, 6 4QTR Comebacks, and 8 GW Drives.
In his first two years, Daniel Jones had 8-18 record as a starter, 35 Pass TDs, 3 Rush TDs, 1 4QTR Comeback, and 2 GW Drives.
To suggest their first two seasons were very similar is just simply not true.
This!
People have lost their minds on here.
Josh Allen's 1st 2 years blows Daniel Jones' 1st 2 years out of the water.
Not comparable at all!!! Josh Allen leaps and bounds better 1st 2 years. Not close.
No, actually they are. But theres no cure for stupid so you wont ever figure it out.
If you like/love Allen -- you will like/love Jones too. Gotta give him a couple of weapons before you give up on him.
If you like/love Allen -- you will like/love Jones too. Gotta give him a couple of weapons before you give up on him.
Look at Jones v. Allen without the weapons. Its insane. There was a report I watched about how there is a trend in the current NFL that puts more pressure on FOs and HCs to move on after a couple uears with a QB. Good thing we didnt do that with Eli.
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In comment 15154590 chopperhatch said:
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In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Your typical bluster aside, has Jones paid a good dividend yet after two cracks at it? Pretty straightforward question.
Now, it's interesting the information you left our of your "analysis" of Allen. The Bills made the playoffs in the his second season. Going 10-6. And without Diggs.
Did you notice Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2 vs Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2?
Further, I noticed you left our Allen's rushing stats in YR2. He had 510 yards rushing and 9 TDs. Thoughts on that?
So Allen accounted for 29 total TDs in YR2. Jones? 12 total TDs in YR2.
Now that you have more intel, do you think Allen paid a dividend in YR2?
No I stopped typing you dickhead.
The point I was making, was that one had an exceptional rookie year,and then fell off in year 2 along with his top offensive weapon, a new system and a far inferior offensive team. The other had a pretty below average rookie season and improved 2nd season.
I didnt leave anything out. Notice how I completely left out Jones 2nd season, because I knew it would be lost on you. TD-INT: Allen had 30-21, Jones 35-22 thru 2 seasons.
Seriously you are a fraud. Your arguments suck. Even this one where I gave typing because I didnt feel you were worth the effort.
Go pump up that 6'3 190 bod.
SMH.
Allen had 30 PASSING Touchdowns.
He also had 17 RUSHING Touchdowns.
30 + 17 = 47 TOTAL TOUCHDOWNS thru 2 seasons
You just completely left out the 17 rushing TDs thru 2 seasons.
When you have to bend the stats to make a fake point, u have nothing.
Quote:
In comment 15154590 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Yikes, this post is embarrassing.
Josh Allen accounted for 29 Touchdowns in Year 2 and led his team to the playoffs, without a #1 WR on his roster.
Daniel Jones accounted for 12 Touchdowns in Year 2, while starting the season 1-7 at the midway point.
29 TDs + 10-5 record (Not gonna count the Week 17 2019 loss where Allen played 1 series then sat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daniel Jones' 2nd year
Did you think you were going somewhere with this?
(Hint - u went nowhere, and actually disproved your own point, ironically)
No, the fact that this is your 3rd or 4th handle is embarassing. And what adult actually says "yikes?"
You have gotten completely destroyed onyour garbage OP.
Cant wait to see you show up again as ToyCam7.
You're so dumb, you can't even add.
Josh Allen had 30 passing TDs thru 2 years.
Josh Allen had 17 rushing TDs thru 2 years.
That means Josh Allen accounted for 47 Total Touchdowns thru 2 years.
47 Touchdowns. After 2 years.
1 passing TD counts the same as 1 rushing TD on the scoreboard.
You are making a fool of yourself.
Quit while you're ahead.
This is embarrassing.
Quote:
but I also think Jones is equally good even though they have different skill sets
If you like/love Allen -- you will like/love Jones too. Gotta give him a couple of weapons before you give up on him.
Look at Jones v. Allen without the weapons. Its insane. There was a report I watched about how there is a trend in the current NFL that puts more pressure on FOs and HCs to move on after a couple uears with a QB. Good thing we didnt do that with Eli.
also the Giants featured basically 3 first time starters on the Oline -- Josh ALlen had much more experienced Olinemen in yer 2 -- he also had a receiver with 1,000 yds -- name me one WR on the Giants that could approach 1,000 yds
Quote:
but I also think Jones is equally good even though they have different skill sets
If you like/love Allen -- you will like/love Jones too. Gotta give him a couple of weapons before you give up on him.
Look at Jones v. Allen without the weapons. Its insane. There was a report I watched about how there is a trend in the current NFL that puts more pressure on FOs and HCs to move on after a couple uears with a QB. Good thing we didnt do that with Eli.
I already did.
Josh Allen accounted for 47 Touchdowns in 2 years with no weapons, while missing 6 games.
Josh with no weapons
>>>>>>>>>>>
Jones with no weapons
Not even comparable, as I have already proven beyond any doubt.
Quote:
In comment 15154638 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15154590 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Your typical bluster aside, has Jones paid a good dividend yet after two cracks at it? Pretty straightforward question.
Now, it's interesting the information you left our of your "analysis" of Allen. The Bills made the playoffs in the his second season. Going 10-6. And without Diggs.
Did you notice Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2 vs Jones's TD/INT ratio in YR2?
Further, I noticed you left our Allen's rushing stats in YR2. He had 510 yards rushing and 9 TDs. Thoughts on that?
So Allen accounted for 29 total TDs in YR2. Jones? 12 total TDs in YR2.
Now that you have more intel, do you think Allen paid a dividend in YR2?
No I stopped typing you dickhead.
The point I was making, was that one had an exceptional rookie year,and then fell off in year 2 along with his top offensive weapon, a new system and a far inferior offensive team. The other had a pretty below average rookie season and improved 2nd season.
I didnt leave anything out. Notice how I completely left out Jones 2nd season, because I knew it would be lost on you. TD-INT: Allen had 30-21, Jones 35-22 thru 2 seasons.
Seriously you are a fraud. Your arguments suck. Even this one where I gave typing because I didnt feel you were worth the effort.
Go pump up that 6'3 190 bod.
SMH.
Allen had 30 PASSING Touchdowns.
He also had 17 RUSHING Touchdowns.
30 + 17 = 47 TOTAL TOUCHDOWNS thru 2 seasons
You just completely left out the 17 rushing TDs thru 2 seasons.
When you have to bend the stats to make a fake point, u have nothing.
Go back abd read....I didnt get to rushing stats for Allen BECAUSE I STOPPED TYPING YOU UNBELIEVABLE FUCKING MORON!
Quote:
In comment 15154691 HonCiv6 said:
Quote:
In comment 15154590 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Yikes, this post is embarrassing.
Josh Allen accounted for 29 Touchdowns in Year 2 and led his team to the playoffs, without a #1 WR on his roster.
Daniel Jones accounted for 12 Touchdowns in Year 2, while starting the season 1-7 at the midway point.
29 TDs + 10-5 record (Not gonna count the Week 17 2019 loss where Allen played 1 series then sat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daniel Jones' 2nd year
Did you think you were going somewhere with this?
(Hint - u went nowhere, and actually disproved your own point, ironically)
No, the fact that this is your 3rd or 4th handle is embarassing. And what adult actually says "yikes?"
You have gotten completely destroyed onyour garbage OP.
Cant wait to see you show up again as ToyCam7.
You're so dumb, you can't even add.
Josh Allen had 30 passing TDs thru 2 years.
Josh Allen had 17 rushing TDs thru 2 years.
That means Josh Allen accounted for 47 Total Touchdowns thru 2 years.
47 Touchdowns. After 2 years.
1 passing TD counts the same as 1 rushing TD on the scoreboard.
You are making a fool of yourself.
Quit while you're ahead.
This is embarrassing.
Yet everybody here has written off your horseshit theoretical OP.....
Go drive safely in your Honda Civic....wouldnt want anything bad to happen to you so we get more gold from your fingertips.
that he had said or done racist acts recently in his past?
How was that supposed to fly in NY or NJ?
It would have been a serious pr concern here, along with many other flaws, particularly wildly inaccurate passing.
that he had said or done racist acts recently in his past?
How was that supposed to fly in NY or NJ?
It would have been a serious pr concern here, along with many other flaws, particularly wildly inaccurate passing.
You can be a Giant fan and want Jones to succeed, but still come to grips that Josh Allen had a more productive first 2-year period.
that he had said or done racist acts recently in his past?
How was that supposed to fly in NY or NJ?
It would have been a serious pr concern here, along with many other flaws, particularly wildly inaccurate passing.
Josh Allen was the most accurate pocket passer in the NFL this past season.
Literally - #1 most efficient passer from inside the pocket
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15154698 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15154691 HonCiv6 said:
Quote:
In comment 15154590 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Yikes, this post is embarrassing.
Josh Allen accounted for 29 Touchdowns in Year 2 and led his team to the playoffs, without a #1 WR on his roster.
Daniel Jones accounted for 12 Touchdowns in Year 2, while starting the season 1-7 at the midway point.
29 TDs + 10-5 record (Not gonna count the Week 17 2019 loss where Allen played 1 series then sat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daniel Jones' 2nd year
Did you think you were going somewhere with this?
(Hint - u went nowhere, and actually disproved your own point, ironically)
No, the fact that this is your 3rd or 4th handle is embarassing. And what adult actually says "yikes?"
You have gotten completely destroyed onyour garbage OP.
Cant wait to see you show up again as ToyCam7.
You're so dumb, you can't even add.
Josh Allen had 30 passing TDs thru 2 years.
Josh Allen had 17 rushing TDs thru 2 years.
That means Josh Allen accounted for 47 Total Touchdowns thru 2 years.
47 Touchdowns. After 2 years.
1 passing TD counts the same as 1 rushing TD on the scoreboard.
You are making a fool of yourself.
Quit while you're ahead.
This is embarrassing.
Yet everybody here has written off your horseshit theoretical OP.....
Go drive safely in your Honda Civic....wouldnt want anything bad to happen to you so we get more gold from your fingertips.
Who's everybody?
Many people have acknowledged the mistake.
Most are just being stubborn and/or homers.
One guy even said he's not convinced that Josh Allen is better than Jones...which all you can do is LOL
You can be a Giant fan and want Jones to succeed, but still come to grips that Josh Allen had a more productive first 2-year period.
You're absolutely right. I had a really rough day and this dupe shows up with the typical shit. I popped off right after I got done dealing with a personal issue. I shouldnt have. Thats not an apoligy to this obvious dupe, but turning to BBI to take your mind off of something is not always the right thing to do.
Apologies to everybody else who watched it happen.. To the dupe, your post and theory still sucks.
Now, granted, what fans want is not some measure of what is or isn't obvious to GMs/Scouts -- but when the consensus is THAT split amongst pretty much everyone who follows the team, it shows right away that the decision was not "obvious".
But never get over it? C'mon, enough with the hyperbole.
And they both have 2 first names! :-0
Ha! This was quietly funny.
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of it, Josh Allen and John Jerry have the same amount of letters in their names!!
And they both have 2 first names! :-0
Always be wary of the Firsty Firsty.
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especially when you abide by the rule you dont pick a running back in the first round! we are now paying the huge price. What a waste!!
Are the Giants really paying a huge price for selecting Barkley over Darnold/Rosen?
They did have to buy a glass ROY case. Those things ain't cheap.
You can be a Giant fan and want Jones to succeed, but still come to grips that Josh Allen had a more productive first 2-year period.
rational people can definitely buy into this line of thinking.
This place isn't rational. it's extreme hot takes and platitudes.
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over a fairly harmless comparison.
You can be a Giant fan and want Jones to succeed, but still come to grips that Josh Allen had a more productive first 2-year period.
rational people can definitely buy into this line of thinking.
This place isn't rational. it's extreme hot takes and platitudes.
Agreed. Same goes with player salary debates and cap discussions, some posters seem to go apoplectic.
The irony, coming from one of BBI's pre-eminent dupes.
How are those coyotes, Denny?
Quote:
Another BS media narrative.
Allen's team was completely overmatched in every way shape or form.
ahhh yes.. but the Giants weren't right? Which teams did we play this year where we weren't overmatched vs the opponent?
You don't really know that however. No one really does.
It is one thing to claim the KC chiefs are playing at an elite level in the league -- it s quite another to say if the Giants are or not.
I honestly think that Golden Tate and or Shepherd have a good season in them ; even Evan Engram for that matter; had the Giants drafted a different Qb and a high-draft-pick hog molly instead of jones and Barkley.
Most fans don't want to hear the painful truth that bad drafting and trades ; does have consequences. It isn't the end of the franchise. But just the end of Giants football and meaningful games by Sept. for a few years.
Instead we're just going to pretend like if they get an elite line; elite TE; and elite WRs -- they can win with Jones and Barkely. Guess what? I can win at QB if you give me all that -- it's never going to happen.
I'm guessing you didn't realize that Mahomes was drafted before Engram did you, Einstein? 13 spots ahead of him, Encyclopedia Britannica.
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The team had just had a pretty good season and the head coach wanted desperately to draft Mahomes. Instead they drafted Evan Engram. A lot of people are more down on Engram than he deserves, but that could have been Patrick Mahomes...
I'm guessing you didn't realize that Mahomes was drafted before Engram did you, Einstein? 13 spots ahead of him, Encyclopedia Britannica.
Just a refresher on this.
The Chiefs were the 27th pick in round one that year. We were the 23rd pick in round one.
The Chiefs had 91st pick that year in the third round. We had the 87th pick in the third round.
The Chiefs traded the Bills their 27th pick, their 91st pick and their first round pick in 2018 to obtain Mahomes.
In 2017, the Chiefs won the AFCW and were presumed to be a playoff contender again in 2018. We were 3-13 and presumed to be going nowhere in 2018.
My point. We could have made the same deal with the Bills - in terms of # of picks and the specific rounds - and had a more attractive offer.
-- Our 2017 first rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- Our 2017 third rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- And it was very reasonable to conclude our first round pick in 2018 would have been more valuable than the Chiefs' (which ended up being accurate).
In other words, we missed out on a great opportunity to grab a real generational player because the great decision makers at Jints Central got cold feet. And choked.
The Giants Way. There is no substitute.
I would like you to dig up the thread(s) where you were posting about how we should go after Mahomes leading up to the draft that year.
Hindsight being 20/20, it's bw's way, there is no substitute.
Utterly worthless insight you bring to the board.
The Giants have had a great chance to land a true franchise QB draft pick sometime in the last 4 years, but failed. They failed for the reasons we discuss here all the time: nostalgia, luddism (I can't remember which poster used that word to describe them...but he was right), nepotism, and just a general blindness to the way the league has changed in the past decade.
When Mara should have been looking around the league to see which way the wind was blowing, he instead looked into his own past. Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson...those guys are nothing like Simms or, more importantly, Eli. Herbert may be a little more in how he plays, but by then we already had an Eli clone in Jones.
And the shit of it is that Jones isn't an Eli clone at all, and Mara doesn't realize it. If he realized it, he wouldn't have picked Garrett to mentor him...he would have picked someone more likely to exploit Jones's strengths and hide his weaknesses.
Dan Duggan said in his chat yesterday that another poor year in 2021 will mean a new GM and QB in 2022. Let's hope he's right, because based recent history another poor year is coming.
I am surprised we are still around when we took Phill Simms ... and left Joe Montana to be had by the 49'ers until the 3rd round? Are you kidding me ...?
This has to be the death blow.
Any stock prices in that crystal ball of yours?
I will pay you a service charge + percentage points Hon.
Quote:
In comment 15154691 HonCiv6 said:
Quote:
In comment 15154590 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 15154519 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the mistake of the Allen miss.
He's had two cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great.
Do you even casually examine your arguments before making incredibly uninformed, superlative statements? Jones has "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great"... Here you blowhard in dc:
Allen season 1 in 11 starts: 53% comp, 10 TDs, 2074 yards, 12 INTs, 8 fumbled, 69.7 rating, 49.8 QBR, 89 rushes for 631 yards and 8 TDs
Jones season 1 on 12 starts: 62% compl, 24 TDs, 3027 yards, 12 INTs, 18 fumbles, 87.7 rating, 55.7 rating, 45 rushes 279 yards and 2 TDs
Allen season 2 in 16 starts: 59% comp, 20 TDs, 3089 yards, 9 INTs, ....
You know what,Im not going to waste the time with you any more. You are truly exhausting and nauseating to deal with here.
Go look at both players on Pro Football Reference for a change and you will see their 1st 2 seasons were very similar excpet that Allen was a much better rusher and Jones was a more efficient passer.
To claim that Jones "had 2 cracks at it thus far and the dividend isn't great" while lauding Allen after a monster 3rd season and not taking into account the difference in player personnel is so cheesey and so you. Jesus Christ.
Yikes, this post is embarrassing.
Josh Allen accounted for 29 Touchdowns in Year 2 and led his team to the playoffs, without a #1 WR on his roster.
Daniel Jones accounted for 12 Touchdowns in Year 2, while starting the season 1-7 at the midway point.
29 TDs + 10-5 record (Not gonna count the Week 17 2019 loss where Allen played 1 series then sat)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Daniel Jones' 2nd year
Did you think you were going somewhere with this?
(Hint - u went nowhere, and actually disproved your own point, ironically)
No, the fact that this is your 3rd or 4th handle is embarassing. And what adult actually says "yikes?"
You have gotten completely destroyed onyour garbage OP.
Cant wait to see you show up again as ToyCam7.
You're so dumb, you can't even add.
Josh Allen had 30 passing TDs thru 2 years.
Josh Allen had 17 rushing TDs thru 2 years.
That means Josh Allen accounted for 47 Total Touchdowns thru 2 years.
47 Touchdowns. After 2 years.
1 passing TD counts the same as 1 rushing TD on the scoreboard.
You are making a fool of yourself.
Quit while you're ahead.
This is embarrassing.
I know you are but, what am I?
The Giants have had a great chance to land a true franchise QB draft pick sometime in the last 4 years, but failed. They failed for the reasons we discuss here all the time: nostalgia, luddism (I can't remember which poster used that word to describe them...but he was right), nepotism, and just a general blindness to the way the league has changed in the past decade.
When Mara should have been looking around the league to see which way the wind was blowing, he instead looked into his own past. Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson...those guys are nothing like Simms or, more importantly, Eli. Herbert may be a little more in how he plays, but by then we already had an Eli clone in Jones.
And the shit of it is that Jones isn't an Eli clone at all, and Mara doesn't realize it. If he realized it, he wouldn't have picked Garrett to mentor him...he would have picked someone more likely to exploit Jones's strengths and hide his weaknesses.
Dan Duggan said in his chat yesterday that another poor year in 2021 will mean a new GM and QB in 2022. Let's hope he's right, because based recent history another poor year is coming.
You neglect to point out that all of those guys save Herbert had very major question marks. Mahomes was viewed as raw and played in the defenseless Big 12. Watson supposedly had a weak arm and was proppoed up by how fantastic the team around him was. Jackson was looked at as being too reliant on his legs (still kinda true). Allen was looked at as exceptionally raw and inaccurate. So your argument is that 5 teams in 4 years drafted a QB that we could have (2 of which would have cost us a bunch to trade up for) so therefore the Maras have done a bad job because they didnt take a chance on breaking from their traditional preference in a QB?
Its as you said, all happened in the span of 4 fucking years. But by all means, lets ignore all of the many many many quirky college QB failures teams have experienced over the years because they wanted to beat everybody to the punch.
Go Terps : 12:52 am : link : reply
The Giants have been a poorly quarterbacked, poor offensive team for 4 seasons now. The first rounds of the last 4 drafts have yielded Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert. The Giants ended up with Jones, who is well below those five on every metric and the eye test.
Those drafts also yielded Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins and Jordan Love
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It's not just missing on Allen
Go Terps : 12:52 am : link : reply
The Giants have been a poorly quarterbacked, poor offensive team for 4 seasons now. The first rounds of the last 4 drafts have yielded Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert. The Giants ended up with Jones, who is well below those five on every metric and the eye test.
Those drafts also yielded Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins and Jordan Love
Not to mention the fact that Herbert stayed in school the year Jones was drafted. While Lamar Jackson is one of the most fun QBs to watch, I'm not sure how long he lasts and still not sure of his passing. I am enjoying watching him on Baltimore..
Watson I loved coming out of college. Mahomes I never heard of until he was drafted.
I would like you to dig up the thread(s) where you were posting about how we should go after Mahomes leading up to the draft that year.
Hindsight being 20/20, it's bw's way, there is no substitute.
Utterly worthless insight you bring to the board.
Forget my opinion. Here’s what matters on this: McAdoo wanted to make THIS move.
Of all the guys in that draft room April 27, the much ridiculed McAdoo (the last coach to get us into the playoffs) was the guy who knew it was time to begin the transition from Eli. And he recognized Mahomes had the gifts to be next great Giant.
So simple question - would you rather have Mahomes now or Jones?
And if Jones becomes a good QB then nobody should care about the above. And if he doesn't, then the Giants will need to start the process over again at some point, most likely with a different GM because people will care about the above.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
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It's not just missing on Allen
Go Terps : 12:52 am : link : reply
The Giants have been a poorly quarterbacked, poor offensive team for 4 seasons now. The first rounds of the last 4 drafts have yielded Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert. The Giants ended up with Jones, who is well below those five on every metric and the eye test.
Those drafts also yielded Mitch Trubisky, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins and Jordan Love
Yes. Those guys were also misses. The Giants aren't the only team to screw up. If you want to take comfort in that, that's up to you.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
Let me know when you get an answer because everything I ask it its crickets. Are we storming Metlife?
That’s a stretch. I’ll give you Rosen & Haskins.
And if Jones becomes a good QB then nobody should care about the above. And if he doesn't, then the Giants will need to start the process over again at some point, most likely with a different GM because people will care about the above.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
The most beneficial outcome for the franchise is Jones has the goods.
He is going to get the opportunity to prove it.
It was always going to be that way once they drafted him at 6.
I know year 2 sucked, but Covid, brand new OL, shit receivers and no Barkley.
I am the guy on this board that continually whines about excuses but even I must acknowledge the hardships that his second year presented.
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
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In comment 15156157 Go Terps said:
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
Indeed the stats do not bear out that Trubisky is more inaccurate than Jones. Trubisky's career comp pct is 64.0. This season he was 67.0. Jones' career % is 62.2. In 2020 he was 62.5.
There is a myth perpetuated on this board that Jones is very accurate. He is not an accurate QB. I think the myth persists because Jones often throws a nice looking ball - a lovely spiral, especially on his big plays. But Jones often mucks up simple plays with throws to the wrong side, over the heads and to the feet of receivers. A few of these terrible passes have cost us games. Jones remains one of the least accurate starting QBs in the NFL.
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In comment 15156157 Go Terps said:
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
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In comment 15156301 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15156157 Go Terps said:
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But he also safely falls into the "not worth a second contract" category.
I watch a lot of Chicago football. He is not better than Jones. He is more elusive but not as fast. Trubisky can be grossly inaccurate at times in way that Jones is not. More absolutely terrible passes and decisions. He is less likely to fumble.
The numbers say otherwise. I agree he isn't very good, but he's been better than what Jones has put on the field to this point. I agree that Jones is a better thrower, but that hasn't manifested itself into any benefits.
This eye test, very subjective. My wife is as crazy a football fan as I am. The teams often play at the same time so my living room has 3 TVs and the Sunday Ticket. I see all of their games. If weight Jones' year 2 heavy I get it. I am not Jones lover at this point but I would rather him than Trubisky, there is more games to see what he is. I hate excuses, but I give the excuses for his second year decline legitimate consideration.
I am not a Jones believer. But the solution to Jones is not to bring in another team's bust. Trubisky has been more accurate than Jones but he has been pretty bad too and not an answer for a team searching for a franchise QB.
Daniel Jones isn't an elite QB and he's not good enough to overcome the lack of good players around him. But when he's completing a higher than normal % of downfield balls despite that, and is battling with probably a lot of confidence issues throwing to guys like Engram, its a recipe for failure.
It is ok to recognize that Jones isn't a great QB and also understand that his team isn't helping him much, and making it a lot harder for him to excel.
Swap Allen Robinson for Shepard and i'm wondering how much worse Trubisky would look and how much better Jones would be. I know speculation is a no no but what other choice do we have?
You do realize thst Machines was drafted before the giants pick right?
Useless to look backward though. Gettleman was retained and we have Barkley and Jones in 2021. If the team stinks again, we’ll try and push Gettleman out again and maybe it’ll finally work out.
No use in driving yourself nuts over it in February. Hopefully Gettleman can finally put together a decent team here because all this losing sucks.
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were drafted by other NFL teams while the Giants were still screwing around with Eli Manning and then focusing in on Daniel Jones.
And if Jones becomes a good QB then nobody should care about the above. And if he doesn't, then the Giants will need to start the process over again at some point, most likely with a different GM because people will care about the above.
Everything else is just opinion and conjecture from both sides of the debate, so really...where are you going with all this?
Solid. Jones was always getting year 3 if DG got year 3. Make peace with it.
The most beneficial outcome for the franchise is Jones has the goods.
He is going to get the opportunity to prove it.
It was always going to be that way once they drafted him at 6.
I know year 2 sucked, but Covid, brand new OL, shit receivers and no Barkley.
I am the guy on this board that continually whines about excuses but even I must acknowledge the hardships that his second year presented.
Those tired excuses of covid ; new o-line blah blah. Don't forget what everyone was saying about Brady and the Bucs in weeks 1 & 2. "Brady is now learning that the Buccaneers are not the patriots". They played bad for weeks 1 & 2. They didn't lose every freakin game up and until the bye week. And also win one with Colt Mccoy as their starting QB.
Gettle had to prove he really saw something in Jones to draft him that high. So far he proved to be clueless buffoon. Just to give you a frame of reference Dan marino was drafted 20th. Just think about that.
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In comment 15155743 Angus said:
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The team had just had a pretty good season and the head coach wanted desperately to draft Mahomes. Instead they drafted Evan Engram. A lot of people are more down on Engram than he deserves, but that could have been Patrick Mahomes...
I'm guessing you didn't realize that Mahomes was drafted before Engram did you, Einstein? 13 spots ahead of him, Encyclopedia Britannica.
Just a refresher on this.
The Chiefs were the 27th pick in round one that year. We were the 23rd pick in round one.
The Chiefs had 91st pick that year in the third round. We had the 87th pick in the third round.
The Chiefs traded the Bills their 27th pick, their 91st pick and their first round pick in 2018 to obtain Mahomes.
In 2017, the Chiefs won the AFCW and were presumed to be a playoff contender again in 2018. We were 3-13 and presumed to be going nowhere in 2018.
My point. We could have made the same deal with the Bills - in terms of # of picks and the specific rounds - and had a more attractive offer.
-- Our 2017 first rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- Our 2017 third rounder was better than the Chiefs'.
-- And it was very reasonable to conclude our first round pick in 2018 would have been more valuable than the Chiefs' (which ended up being accurate).
In other words, we missed out on a great opportunity to grab a real generational player because the great decision makers at Jints Central got cold feet. And choked.
The Giants Way. There is no substitute.
And this whole mahomes BS. It is one thing to be drafting in the 20s and be in win now mode and trade up. It is quite another when you're picking 6th and your franchise has gone nowhere for 6 seasons, and josh is just sitting out there waiting.
I think you have the wrong Josh Allen there, Einstein.
I think you have the wrong Josh Allen there, Einstein.
Picking 2nd whatever. You know what I am talking about. I am saying it pretty clearly
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in the fuck are you talking about??
I think you have the wrong Josh Allen there, Einstein.
Picking 2nd whatever. You know what I am talking about. I am saying it pretty clearly
He doesn't care what you are talking about. If you aren't defending the Giants, he is just looking for the real value-add stuff like this...
LOL. Glad to see the fuckstick dupe back with us pulling the same shit.
Concern yourself with that compelling retort you gave the poster above to his topic. That looks to be more your speed on threads these days...