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NFT: What happened to the Mets sign Pillar thread?

allstarjim : 2/16/2021 2:27 pm
Seems to be deleted. Why?
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Mets likely  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2021 8:58 pm : link
wind up with 7 top 100 players.

John Flanigan
@jflan816
That is now five Mets on MLB Network’s Top 100 list:

89. Brandon Nimmo
67. Dominic Smith
66. Pete Alonso
35. Jeff McNeil
34. Michael Conforto

deGrom and Lindor still to come.

Maybe the Dodgers have more? Yankees? Padres?

not many teams probably have 8 top 100 players.

Syndergaard maybe would have cracked the list if he was healthy too.
RE: Mets likely  
ZGiants98 : 2/16/2021 9:11 pm : link
In comment 15154875 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
wind up with 7 top 100 players.

John Flanigan
@jflan816
That is now five Mets on MLB Network’s Top 100 list:

89. Brandon Nimmo
67. Dominic Smith
66. Pete Alonso
35. Jeff McNeil
34. Michael Conforto

deGrom and Lindor still to come.

Maybe the Dodgers have more? Yankees? Padres?

not many teams probably have 8 top 100 players.

Syndergaard maybe would have cracked the list if he was healthy too.


It heavily favors recency bias which is why Carrasco, Stroman, and Syndergaard are all off. But theoretically, with average career seasons, you could see each or any getting back into the 100 mix IMO. This is a real solid club.
any Mets fan that can't get behind Sandy  
Rory : 2/16/2021 9:53 pm : link
after this offseason needs to wear a different NY emblem on his hat.

Offseason has been what we have been dreaming for for years.

Now just need to re-sign all of our FA's
Twitter rumors  
Earl the goat : 2/16/2021 10:31 pm : link
Mets. A,s and pirates all discussing trade for Third baseman Chapman
Chapman would be a pretty insane pull from Oakland  
Eric on Li : 2/16/2021 10:47 pm : link
and Beane does have a track record of making crazy deals.

Back to Pillar - his highlights from 2019 look pretty good considering the negative metrics. And a bunch of them weren't just acrobatic, he was covering a lot of ground through gaps. I am one of the biggest proponents of defensive metrics generally speaking because I am a big proponent of defense and they are all we have but like most stats they likely aren't infallible. Not saying he's still as good as his best but I think it's possible if not likely he's going to be noticeably better than Nimmo.
Kevin Pillar's Incredible 2019 Catches - ( New Window )
Chapman  
pjcas18 : 2/16/2021 10:54 pm : link
costs Alvarez and Allan.

I obviously like Chapman, but I'd rather not do that. But I probably would.

I do think though that trade (if it doesn't hurt the major league roster) makes the Mets even with the Dodgers.

an infield of Chapman, Lindor, McNeil and Alonso would be one of the best infields maybe ever. Is that hyperbole?
RE: Chapman  
Eric on Li : 2/16/2021 11:01 pm : link
In comment 15154977 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
costs Alvarez and Allan.

I obviously like Chapman, but I'd rather not do that. But I probably would.

I do think though that trade (if it doesn't hurt the major league roster) makes the Mets even with the Dodgers.

an infield of Chapman, Lindor, McNeil and Alonso would be one of the best infields maybe ever. Is that hyperbole?


It's really good and almost definitely best current but not sure how they'd rank all time. Even semi-recently Arod, Cano, Jeter, Texeira was probably still better.
i want a team with  
Rory : 2/16/2021 11:36 pm : link
sustainability, trading our best prospects defeats that.

I also appreciate the amount of home grown talent on this team and want to keep that trend.

surprised so many fans feel different.

What if the Mets do all these outlandish moves, blow up payroll, trade all their assets and still lose. Then what ?
RE: i want a team with  
Eric on Li : 2/16/2021 11:40 pm : link
In comment 15154999 Rory said:
Quote:
sustainability, trading our best prospects defeats that.

I also appreciate the amount of home grown talent on this team and want to keep that trend.

surprised so many fans feel different.

What if the Mets do all these outlandish moves, blow up payroll, trade all their assets and still lose. Then what ?


I just want to fill the roster with the best depth available. Rich Hill and Brad Hand would almost definitely be Mets if I were GM and they'd cost you 0 prospects. Same with Kike Hernandez (or Marwin) instead of Villar. And they'd still be under the LTT I think.

I don't think this team needs another major move. They certainly don't need to force one and I'm glad they haven't. Just surprised they haven't shopped for some of the higher end role players. But if they get Rosenthal and Walker or Odorizzi I'll feel a lot better.
RE: RE: i want a team with  
Rory : 2/17/2021 12:02 am : link
In comment 15155002 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15154999 Rory said:


Quote:


sustainability, trading our best prospects defeats that.

I also appreciate the amount of home grown talent on this team and want to keep that trend.

surprised so many fans feel different.

What if the Mets do all these outlandish moves, blow up payroll, trade all their assets and still lose. Then what ?



I just want to fill the roster with the best depth available. Rich Hill and Brad Hand would almost definitely be Mets if I were GM and they'd cost you 0 prospects. Same with Kike Hernandez (or Marwin) instead of Villar. And they'd still be under the LTT I think.

I don't think this team needs another major move. They certainly don't need to force one and I'm glad they haven't. Just surprised they haven't shopped for some of the higher end role players. But if they get Rosenthal and Walker or Odorizzi I'll feel a lot better.


I fell you man, and I think Thor will be back sooner then we think, Rosenthal would be my final move but if he wants to close this wont be the place for him.

Just super excited about this season, covid needs to chill so we can get to Citi and really enjoy this new era. What a exciting time to be a NY Mets fan.
you think  
cactus : 2/17/2021 10:35 am : link
the mets closer job is locked down??!?
Another  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 10:40 am : link
Mets employee fired for being a creep.
Unless  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 10:44 am : link
I'm completely missing something this morning, the Mets reportedly called the A's last week about Chapman and were told he's unavailable.
RE: Another  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15155197 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Mets employee fired for being a creep.


I wouldn't be surprised if there's more that comes out from the Wilpon era. I'm always surprised there isn't more outcry about Jeff himself just based on what's publicly known about how he treated everyone generally. Toxic personalities find shelter in organizations run by people like Jeff.
Matt  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 10:49 am : link
Chapman is a top 3-4 most underrated player in the sport (I think Jose Ramirez is the most underrated) but it doesn't surprise me the A's aren't really listening on him. He's signed through 2023.
RE: RE: Another  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 10:50 am : link
In comment 15155203 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15155197 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Mets employee fired for being a creep.



I wouldn't be surprised if there's more that comes out from the Wilpon era. I'm always surprised there isn't more outcry about Jeff himself just based on what's publicly known about how he treated everyone generally. Toxic personalities find shelter in organizations run by people like Jeff.


I don't think anybody would be. I wonder if Ellis is even fired if not for the ownership change Porter/Callaway stuff. I'm amazed the Callaway investigation is still ongoing.
RE: Unless  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2021 10:50 am : link
In comment 15155201 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I'm completely missing something this morning, the Mets reportedly called the A's last week about Chapman and were told he's unavailable.


I don't see any logical why the A's would trade Chapman and definitely none why they'd choose to do it now. At the beginning of the offseason like they did with Donaldson? Maybe if they wanted to try to maximize his trade value for a haul and were one of the teams needing to save $. But the Donaldson trade didn't exactly work out. So there would probably need to be significant financial motivated to try that again.

But obviously that wasn't the case and the correct decision is to keep him and try to compete the next 3 years. He is likely to be undervalued in arbitration since his defensive value is such an outlier.
Mets  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 10:55 am : link
were reportedly one of the teams "in" on him.

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
11m
Some may wonder how Aaron Sanchez, who missed all last year with torn shoulder capsule and had a near 6 ERA in 2019, got $4M plus $2.5M in incentives. Turns out in his bullpen for teams he threw 96-98 mph with command #SFGiants
Mish  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 1:21 pm : link
says the Mets were outbid for Duvall so they signed Pillar.
RE: Mets  
Pete in MD : 2/17/2021 2:03 pm : link
In comment 15155218 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
were reportedly one of the teams "in" on him.

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
11m
Some may wonder how Aaron Sanchez, who missed all last year with torn shoulder capsule and had a near 6 ERA in 2019, got $4M plus $2.5M in incentives. Turns out in his bullpen for teams he threw 96-98 mph with command #SFGiants

He's great on Chopped and Masterchef.
Thor  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 2:16 pm : link
on track for June
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 2:17 pm : link
Steve Gelbs
@SteveGelbs
·
1m
Rojas says Noah Syndergaard threw a side today and "looked really good." He adds that Noah's currently on schedule to return in June.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 2:42 pm : link
We know Rojas isn't the decision-maker, but this is now the second Mets employee in recent days to hedge naming Davis the starting 3b...
For  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 2:53 pm : link
Eric-On Tuesday, SNY reported that the Mets were circling back on free agent pitchers with whom they had previously had limited dialogue.

Now they've identified Taijuan Walker as the pitcher in whom they have serious interest, according to league sources. The sides do not yet have an agreement, but have engaged in extensive discussions.
RE: Mish  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2021 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15155369 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets were outbid for Duvall so they signed Pillar.


If true it seems like a good thing. I'd much rather roll the dice on Pillar adding some level of better defense in CF than another corner only.
Here  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 3:16 pm : link
is the tweet if anyone were actually interested


Craig Mish
@CraigMish
·
3h
FWIW with Duvall official today, worth noting the Marlins outbid the Mets for his services per sources. Mets then signed Pillar, etc.
RE: For  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2021 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15155482 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Eric-On Tuesday, SNY reported that the Mets were circling back on free agent pitchers with whom they had previously had limited dialogue.

Now they've identified Taijuan Walker as the pitcher in whom they have serious interest, according to league sources. The sides do not yet have an agreement, but have engaged in extensive discussions.


I think he's a real good fit for the way the rotation is and I'd actually like to get him for 2 years (or an option year). If the AAV is reasonable I think he is a real interesting flier. I just go back to how low we all were on Wheeler after his A27 year and how much he improved in his second year back post-injuries. Wheeler obviously had better velocity so they are different, but his pre2018 K and BB rates were worse thank Walker's.
Pirates  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 3:23 pm : link
minor league coaching staff includes Fernando Nieve, David Newhan, Ruben Gotay and Jon Nunnally. Damn I'm old.
Longenhagen  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 3:28 pm : link
has Alvarez along with Campusano as his "tier 2" C prospects behind Rutchsman

#31 Alvarez
#42 Mauricio
#96 Allan
#130 Vientos
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/17/2021 5:33 pm : link
Ben Nicholson-Smith
@bnicholsonsmith
·
3m
Mets are in talks with Taijuan Walker, as @martinonyc
reported today

There's no deal in place, but am hearing that conversations are ongoing & have taken place as recently as late this afternoon

Walker's one of the top free agent pitchers remaining as spring training begins
.  
pjcas18 : 2/17/2021 7:46 pm : link
Kyle Glaser
@KyleAGlaser
·
1m
Tim Tebow is retiring from baseball, per an announcement from the Mets.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/17/2021 7:51 pm : link
Tim Tebow
@TimTebow
·
5m
I want to thank the @Mets, Mr. Alderson, the fans and all my teammates for the chance to be a part of such a great organization. I loved every minute of the journey, but at this time I feel called in other directions...
..  
Named Later : 2/17/2021 8:00 pm : link
I know he owns part of the Jacksonville Icemen, the ECHL minor league Hockey franchise. And he's got a children's book coming out.

I don't think we'll have to hold a benefit supper for Tebow.

God Bless you Tim.
I give Tebow a lot of credit  
Eric on Li : 2/17/2021 10:30 pm : link
what he did was damn impressive. He became a viable OF'er after not playing the sport for almost a decade and got basically 1 level away from the big leagues. And it wasn't overnight he had to ride the bus for a bunch of seasons to get to that level. Very few have the ability to take that much time off and get to where he did and even fewer would bother putting in the time to do so.
unlike a lot of people  
Dr. D : 2/18/2021 8:40 am : link
I have no hate for Tebow. I wish him well.
I like Tebow and I agree he gets an incongruous amount of hate  
pjcas18 : 2/18/2021 8:49 am : link
I wish he got at least an AB with the Mets, would have been a cool story for him to go pro in two sports (well I guess technically he did but never in the majors for baseball).

but it turned from this would be a cool story to I wonder if he's blocking a legitimate OF candidate, someone who may actually be able to help the Mets one day (even in some small way) at a position of profound organizational weakness, about 2 or 3 years ago.

So, nice story, nice guy, not a pro baseball player.
Great  
pjcas18 : 2/18/2021 9:15 am : link
message here from Tebow before Spring Training a couple years ago in this video embedded in a twitter post.

I showed it to my kids at the time (teenagers) and probably went into the "dad file" of things I share with them, but they did watch it.

link - ( New Window )
Rosenthal to the A’s  
Metnut : 2/18/2021 11:01 am : link
1yr/$11M.

I guess Cohen got taken to the cleaners with the GameStop situation. Mets have been outbid on near every free agent they’ve been interested in this offseason.
even more bizarre is Martino says they weren't really in on him  
Eric on Li : 2/18/2021 11:05 am : link
no idea what they are planning with the BP.
im more worried about sandy and his valuation....  
Italianju : 2/18/2021 11:10 am : link
i think they have set numbers on a lot of these second tier guys and they have all got more then that number. THing is if every FA signs for more then you have them valued for then maybe your value is off. 11 is more then i thought he would get, but its 1 year, who cares.

We are def going to need multiple things to break our way with our pitching staff. Very little margin of error.
RE: im more worried about sandy and his valuation....  
Eric on Li : 2/18/2021 11:23 am : link
In comment 15156162 Italianju said:
Quote:
i think they have set numbers on a lot of these second tier guys and they have all got more then that number. THing is if every FA signs for more then you have them valued for then maybe your value is off. 11 is more then i thought he would get, but its 1 year, who cares.

We are def going to need multiple things to break our way with our pitching staff. Very little margin of error.


Yup, if they want to emulate the LAD they are going to have learn how to be more aggressive for the players they really want. Friedman had a good quote a few years ago to the effect of "if you want to stick to your valuations you are going to finish 3rd for FA a lot".

I actually don't totally mind missing out on Rosenthal at that price, I just don't know how they let themselves get in this position. Should have given Hand 2 years at a slightly lower AAV than he got. Or matched his one year. And/or signed Wilson.
RE: Rosenthal to the A’s  
Shecky : 2/18/2021 11:46 am : link
In comment 15156146 Metnut said:
Quote:
1yr/$11M.

I guess Cohen got taken to the cleaners with the GameStop situation. Mets have been outbid on near every free agent they’ve been interested in this offseason.


lol, i think he made a penny or two on it
The Mets  
pjcas18 : 2/18/2021 11:53 am : link
need relief help, but no way I want to pay Rosenthal $11M.

I like having and owner with the ability to pay anyone as much money as they want, but not "over paying" them just because they could.

it sets a bad precedent and IMO is not how to build a team.
It’s frustrating . We all want to finish these last remaining moves  
ZGiants98 : 2/18/2021 11:56 am : link
But the Mets are looking at paying Rosenthal 15 AAV to get him to leave a guaranteed closing role with the A’s to come pitch in middle relief for the Mets. Wasn’t happening...

Not a huge deal. These last remaining moves aren’t huge needle movers either way imo.
RE: The Mets  
csb : 2/18/2021 12:11 pm : link
In comment 15156216 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
need relief help, but no way I want to pay Rosenthal $11M.

I like having and owner with the ability to pay anyone as much money as they want, but not "over paying" them just because they could.

it sets a bad precedent and IMO is not how to build a team.


Completely agree - just because he has the resources doesn't mean he should be reckless in how it is spent. It's a marathon, not a sprint - they still have holes but this is the best team on paper since the WS and I'm thrilled with the offseason. They will still make a couple more moves, find a way to sign Lindor and Conforto before ST and then evaluate where you are with Stro and Noah at the end of the season. This team has the core to be competitive for the next 3+ years.
nobody should want to pay Rosenthal that much...  
Italianju : 2/18/2021 12:38 pm : link
but as Eric mentioned above this isnt just Rosenthal, its the situation the Mets let themselves get to. No Hand, Rosenthal, Wilson, etc.... If lugo has any setback or Diaz looks like 2019 Diaz this bullpen could be awful. I mean we added may, but lets not pretend he is Rivera. Whole pitching staff seems pretty risky to me. Thor Set back, Peterson regresses, an injury, etc and we could be in trouble.
Fair points  
pjcas18 : 2/18/2021 12:56 pm : link
but Hand, Rosenthal, or Wilson aren't Rivera either and with any of them on the team and the same risks exist but instead you have an overpaid not that good option as a buffer.

not as much Hand, but still him and definitely Rosenthal and Wilson.

Rosenthal was negative WAR in 2019. I know WAR isn't always the best way to evaluate a reliever, but my point is a shitty reliever the Mets missed on may be considered the same as a shitty reliever somewhere in the Mets system or one they could acquire during the season if they need contingencies.



Hand and Rosenthal both took guaranteed  
ZGiants98 : 2/18/2021 3:30 pm : link
Closer roles. Trying to figure out why they didn’t want to come to the Mets and compete with Diaz, Lugo, and May (yes even May was promised some closing opportunities to come here) shouldn’t be that difficult?

Wilson? Sure, ok. But look at Loup’s career ERA/FIP. They essentially are the same person and I’m not sure we wanted redundant middle relief LH options...

At this point if we sign Walker I’ll feel real good about the rotation, lineup, and bench. Adding another reliever would be nice too but I’m sure it’s something they will monitor all season.

Would  
pjcas18 : 2/18/2021 5:03 pm : link
be a good time for Drew Smith to make that late 20's jump from JAG to solid reliever. We've seen that happen before - improvement year 2 back from TJS.

he's got the stuff, just needs to put it together and stay healthy.
link - ( New Window )
players generally take the most years and the most money  
Eric on Li : 2/18/2021 7:48 pm : link
Hand wanted 2 years. I'd have given it to him. Same as I would have given it Betances last year (which obviously turned out to not work out). With BP arms you can afford to throw multiple darts and hope some % hit. If they hit the contract provides surplus value to cover the misses. It's just very hard to predict who will hit and who won't.

So you can either go strength in numbers with higher end arms which is how the NYY have maintained the best BP in baseball even post-Rivera.

Or strength in numbers with middle of the road arms which is lower cost but also lower probability.

There are very few sure thing relievers as we learned the hard way with Diaz. And the Braves learned with Will Smith last year.
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