To me the offense needs the most help and that sentiment was expressed by John Mara.
| "I think we certainly need to help our offense a little bit this offseason, be it free agency and the draft," Mara said. "I think we need some more pieces there. Part of the problem that we had is we had a brand new offensive line with new guys playing new positions. They had never played together before, we had no offseason, we had no preseason games for them to get to know each other and get the feel for playing with one another, and they struggled, particularly early in the year, no question about it. I thought they started to play better in the second half of the season. But there's no question that we need to help our offense going forward and add some more pieces. That will be a priority for us." |
If talking offense to me the offensive line needs the most help. Here are ten reasons to draft an offensive tackle at pick 11.
1. Daniel Jones had the fourth most sacks and fourth highest pressure percentage in the league. Of the 12 highest sacked quarterbacks only Russell Wilson had a winning record. When asked if he ws frustrated by the Seahawks, Wilson responded that he was frustrated about getting hit too much Jones is going into year three of his four year rookie contract. He needs to be protected for a valid evaluation in his remaining rookie contract years. Even Mahomes produced poorly behind a bad line in the SB.
2. Right Tackle Cameron Fleming allowed the sixth most pressures in the league.
3. Left Tackle Andrew Thomas allowed 57 pressures, 14 more than any other player at the position. He was the only left tackle that allowed 10 sacks.
4. In 2019 Nate Solder posted the worst PFF grade of his career at 64.8 overall, as he allowed a league-high 56 pressures while ranking just 70th out of 89 qualifiers with a 52.9 run-blocking grade. He returns from a year off.
5. Pro Football Focus ranked the 2020 teams for each team’s pass rushing grade. The other three teams in the NFC East all came in the top ten. At profootballreference.com the Eagles were 2nd in pressure % and Washington was 9th in 2020.
6. ESPN analysis put the Giants 2020 Pass Block Win Rate as last in the league. The pass block win rate metric conveys the rate linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer. The Giants had a 46% rate.
7. The 2020 rushing yards before contact stat had the Giant’s Wayne Gallman at 28th out of 47 qualifying backs. His yards before contact was 2.2 yards and he had the best amount on the Giants.
8. As reported by PFF, quarterback Daniel Jones had a PFF grade of 91.5 when kept clean in 2020 but 46.9 when pressured.
9. If going by sacks the offensive line did no better in the second half of the season. Daniel Jones was sacked the fifth most in the league in both the first half season (23) and the second(22). This though he played only 6 games in the second half and eight in the first half.
10. PFF ranked Giants 2020 offensive line 31st in the league.
Give me Rashawn Slater or Christian Darrisaw at pick 11.
I’d go bpa or trade down.
This draft is going to be nuts because so many prospects have missed 2020 entirely or played fewer games than normal, or played an otherwise crazy schedule. More variables than normal and so more decisions to make. If you feel you can't take Chase or Rousseau or Parsons because they didn't play a year, ok, take Smith or Surtain. And so on.
Like I said, reasonable people will disagree on this.
Agree 100%. No need to force any position. At 11th overall, with 3 or 4 QBs drafted before #11, the Giants should be able to get one of:
WR Chase (Unlikely)
OT Sewell (Unlikely)
WR D Smith
WR Waddle
LB Parsons
CB Surtain
CB Farley
TE Pitts
ER Rousseau
OT Slater
ER Paye
I've read enough about D Smith, Waddle, Rousseau, Slater and Paye to hope they aren't the pick. Give me Surtain, Parsons and possibly Pitts at #11.
Slater would work at #11. Darrisaw is probably a stretch at #11, but I think he's very interesting.
Don't forget trades, since Zeitler was traded to the Giants from Cleveland.
I think we need more help at WR/TE, but with Waddle coming off injury, Pitts not the blocker you'd like to have for a team that wld like to rely on its running game, and Chase and Smith likely gone, not sure the value will be there. Admittedly, Pitts is a wild card and cld be a star.
I feel like we've been saying this for five years. People preach continuity. Talent matters too.
In round 2, would anyone be shocked if we took an OL?
Not me.
But there's the Gates saga. i knew when they didn't draft a center last year that there had to be one on the roster. That whole affair was managed brilliantly against terrible adversity - 16 scrimmages, no pre new systems, players in new positions.
I think they know what they have in Peart. And if they feel he's a monster, then that line is almost about set.
I think Peart, and their opinion, of him, is key to draft and the season...
Coach might just believe that Peart is the real deal.
Do not choose solely on need....
Later rounds....going for need makes more sense....
Blue chip players in the 1st...gain the most value
Coach might just believe that Peart is the real deal.
I really really really hope you all are right. If Peart and Thomas are Gates redux, we could be playoff bound.
Coach might just believe that Peart is the real deal.
I think he is too.
Although the player still needs to make the grade and be in their upper tier, otherwise I only need one reason why they shouldn't draft an OT in Round 1.
He was pulled from the Ravens game the week before after giving up three straight sacks.
The Ravens committed a roughing-the-punter penalty to give the Giants the ball back and Fleming came in because Peart was a danger to Jones' health.
The Covid excuse is flimsy both because he had only been given 10 snaps the game before he tested positive and because the Ravens' game was his third week back.
You are what your play on the field says you are.
8:34-9:04 - ( New Window )
He was pulled from the Ravens game the week before after giving up three straight sacks.
The Ravens committed a roughing-the-punter penalty to give the Giants the ball back and Fleming came in because Peart was a danger to Jones' health.
The Covid excuse is flimsy both because he had only been given 10 snaps the game before he tested positive and because the Ravens' game was his third week back.
You are what your play on the field says you are. 8:34-9:04 - ( New Window )
Are you aware he hurt his ankle?
Are you aware he hurt his ankle?
The ankle was not on the injury report weeks 15, 16, 17.
Also, Slater offers some versatility and can play inside if Peart develops
Haven't seen much of Darrisaw but looks like he has some big time traits
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Are you aware he hurt his ankle?
The ankle was not on the injury report weeks 15, 16, 17.
Was it ever in the report for Thomas?????
It was his ankle that they sat him for. It was probably the reason for the sacks. He did not forget how to block somehow..
Also, Slater offers some versatility and can play inside if Peart develops
Haven't seen much of Darrisaw but looks like he has some big time traits
Yes this evaluation is key but a guy like Slater allows you to play him anywhere. And then they can figure out if Peart plays at RT or plays inside at OG.
He was pulled from the Ravens game the week before after giving up three straight sacks.
The Ravens committed a roughing-the-punter penalty to give the Giants the ball back and Fleming came in because Peart was a danger to Jones' health.
The Covid excuse is flimsy both because he had only been given 10 snaps the game before he tested positive and because the Ravens' game was his third week back.
You are what your play on the field says you are. 8:34-9:04 - ( New Window )
Covid many times has lingering effects and he was a rookie.
We don't know what coaches know, but FA might signal the draft.
We can't buy much in FA, but it would be nice if an agent delivered a quality player at a reasonable price(not having to pay the premium for players because of NY/NJ C.O.L., and taxes).
If the Giants think they have a pro bowl tackle available in the first round, they should make the pick. Peart can continue to develop and between Thomas, Peart, and the 1st rounder, we have depth at tackle.
You can never have enough offensive linemen.
Daryl Williams 35.0
Matt Peart 36.6
Andrew Thomas 36.1
So people really think DG will spend the 11th overall pick on Slater with his ~ 32 inch long arms?
I'll bet a dinner for four at Drew's Bayshore Bistro in Keport NJ on it, that DG DOESN'T draft an OT at 11 not named Penei Sewell.
Any takers?
Daryl Williams 35.0
Matt Peart 36.6
Andrew Thomas 36.1
So people really think DG will spend the 11th overall pick on Slater with his ~ 32 inch long arms?
I'll bet a dinner for four at Drew's Bayshore Bistro in Keport NJ on it, that DG DOESN'T draft an OT at 11 not named Penei Sewell.
Any takers?
I guess you have totally ruled him out being drafted to start at LG and be insurance at Tackle? Because thats a player worth taking at 11.
I do not thing the stats as a whole are useful to judge this past season. I care about the potential we saw and the improvement that was made. It is about where the oline finished the season and now we have rookies that will have an entire off season that will be a little more normal and we have players that will have a year in the NFL weight room.
Thomas showed to be a very capable oline that improved. Shane moves well, was smart and had some nasty to him. He was often in the right spot but needs some more NFL strength. There are not many other centers I would take in the league over Gates. He also sets the tone for the whole oline. Zietler is still a very good player and did not have a bad year. Peart had some huge positives and did fall off as well. In regards to him, he just has the look as someone who will be a very good tackle. There were times that I saw him make the defender disappear. That is 5, and not even counting Hernandez--is he a lost cause, was it COVID, can he be a strong contributor and maybe push Zietler.
If the Giants took online high in the draft, I wouldn't be upset, but all arrows are pointing up with the group we do have. They are smart, scrappy and are good athletes. To me the biggest concern is how our depth is. We need to be prepared every season that you can lose a tackle or guard to injury during the year.
There isn't a single point that I disagree with that isn't well and civilly presented without absolutes and each one leaves me the feeling that maybe they're right and i'm wrong (which happens all the time, btw).
It seems to me that too often the rantors take over a thread and here we see how good the board can be when they're absent..
Thank you ..an informative and entertaining way to start my day (at 4 AM).
I do ... I bet "what's his name" does (I think he is in the HOF right now) and his running back does.
I want that.
I do ... I bet "what's his name" does (I think he is in the HOF right now) and his running back does.
I want that.
That unit was great. The bulk of them were late rounds and UDFA. Larry Allen I believe was a second-round or 3rd round pick. Tuinei was on defense I believe at the start. This team can definitely get to that point. This off-season was an anomaly. I do believe they need depth and competition, but they also need time and proper coaching. Let's see what they together at the start of camp. You need high-functioning players, which can also be found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. You can't keep adding premium resources to the line and then neglecting everywhere else. This team has holes everywhere and BPA (or trading down) is the way to go at 11.
Quote:
I do ... I bet "what's his name" does (I think he is in the HOF right now) and his running back does.
I want that.
That unit was great. The bulk of them were late rounds and UDFA. Larry Allen I believe was a second-round or 3rd round pick. Tuinei was on defense I believe at the start. This team can definitely get to that point. This off-season was an anomaly. I do believe they need depth and competition, but they also need time and proper coaching. Let's see what they together at the start of camp. You need high-functioning players, which can also be found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. You can't keep adding premium resources to the line and then neglecting everywhere else. This team has holes everywhere and BPA (or trading down) is the way to go at 11.
They were not all late rounds ...
I thought I read that when Jimmy Johnson traded Herschel to Minnesota for like 3-4 early round piscks - Dallas picked up 2 1st round choices, 2 2nd round choices, and 2 3rd round choices .... and they used a lot of those picks to build the greatest (arguably) OL in history.
That is what I want.
Quote:
Taylor Moton 34.1
Daryl Williams 35.0
Matt Peart 36.6
Andrew Thomas 36.1
So people really think DG will spend the 11th overall pick on Slater with his ~ 32 inch long arms?
I'll bet a dinner for four at Drew's Bayshore Bistro in Keport NJ on it, that DG DOESN'T draft an OT at 11 not named Penei Sewell.
Any takers?
I guess you have totally ruled him out being drafted to start at LG and be insurance at Tackle? Because thats a player worth taking at 11.
It most certainly would be. The bet might be worth taking if I thought more about the Giants scouting prowess and the company at dinner :-)
Quote:
In comment 15155041 short lease said:
Quote:
I do ... I bet "what's his name" does (I think he is in the HOF right now) and his running back does.
I want that.
That unit was great. The bulk of them were late rounds and UDFA. Larry Allen I believe was a second-round or 3rd round pick. Tuinei was on defense I believe at the start. This team can definitely get to that point. This off-season was an anomaly. I do believe they need depth and competition, but they also need time and proper coaching. Let's see what they together at the start of camp. You need high-functioning players, which can also be found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. You can't keep adding premium resources to the line and then neglecting everywhere else. This team has holes everywhere and BPA (or trading down) is the way to go at 11.
They were not all late rounds ...
I thought I read that when Jimmy Johnson traded Herschel to Minnesota for like 3-4 early round piscks - Dallas picked up 2 1st round choices, 2 2nd round choices, and 2 3rd round choices .... and they used a lot of those picks to build the greatest (arguably) OL in history.
That is what I want.
These are the guys I was referring to:
Mark Tuinei - Undrafted 1983
Erik Williams - 3rd RD pick 1991
Nate Newton - Drafted USFL but undrafted FA 1983 favorite out of them all
Mark Stepnoski - 3rd round 1989
John Gesek 10th RD 1987
Kevin Gogan - 8th Rd 1987
Larry Allen - 2nd 1994 Probably the best out of them all
They all weren't drafted by the Cowboys, but the fact remains you can get high level play from your line no matter where you are drafted. The young guys will need some time together and an actual off-season. You don't have to spend high resources all the time. Sewell would be great, but you can't always get that type of player.
Quote:
Are you aware he hurt his ankle?
The ankle was not on the injury report weeks 15, 16, 17.
From nfl.com. week 16
"In other news, tight end Evan Engram (calf), defensive back Darnay Holmes (knee), offensive lineman Matt Peart (ankle) and receiver Golden Tate (calf) were limited in practice. New York also designated linebacker Kyler Fackrell (calf) to return to practice; Fackrell was placed on injured reserve earlier in this month and has missed the last three games."
They will draft a guy who impacts playmaking in round 1. Be it edge or WR or corner.
There isn't another great player on the roster. Draft a great player.
Daryl Williams 35.0
Matt Peart 36.6
Andrew Thomas 36.1
So people really think DG will spend the 11th overall pick on Slater with his ~ 32 inch long arms?
I'll bet a dinner for four at Drew's Bayshore Bistro in Keport NJ on it, that DG DOESN'T draft an OT at 11 not named Penei Sewell.
Any takers?
What an oddly specific restaurant choice for someone who joined here in November.
How are you Lou? Anyone overcook your steak lately?
You had me at "Hello" .... Game wins come from the trenches. We are not there yet.
You want to make it through the play-offs to the SB - you have to own the LOS. Everybody will say "Yes ... of course that is right !!!"""
But. it seems like everyone forgets right around draft time
But, only if the talent exists.
The Giants haven't had a truly good OL coach since the last two Super Bowls that they won. They could run the ball which allowed Eli to use play action to get the ball to them.
I've seen several OL leave the Giants and although they may never become HOF talent, they've been starters and are obviously better than when they were Giants.
appreciate the post though.
Rookie tackles are not the answer to that question unless you find an Ogden, Pace, or McKinnie.
Rookie tackles are not the answer to that question unless you find an Ogden, Pace, or McKinnie.
Agreed pick up a vet at RT if possible like Daryl Williams. won't be as expensive as Moton or Trent Williams.
Matt Fieler has played LG and played it well. PFF estimates his contract would be around $6million annually.
Waive Zietler for a 12.5 mill savings sign Fieler to play LG or RG and Daryl Williams for RT.
Daryl Williams was estimated at 3 yrs/31 million in this market.