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NGT: What is your view on the Eagles/Wentz situation?

Sean : 2/16/2021 5:54 pm
It seems clear that he will be traded in the next few weeks, either the Bears or Colts. As a division rival, what is the preference of what the Eagles end up doing?

I personally think Wentz is far more talented that Hurts. He had a mvp type year in 2017 and was a huge reason that team earned the top seed in the NFC. He since battled injuries, but still led the Eagles to the division title in 2019 with a lousy supporting cast. I think Wentz still has talent, and probably just needs a change of scenery.

I don’t find anything about Hurts special. He did not impress me at the end of the season.

So, as a Giant fan I’d prefer Wentz out of the division. I still think he has the stronger upside if everything were to click. I just don’t see a huge upside for Hurts.
My Main Hope  
Trainmaster : 2/16/2021 5:57 pm : link
is that the Eagles have to accept much less than fair market value for Wentz. Sounds like the Eagles getting two first rounder is off (or never was on) the table. Two second rounders are apparently the best they've been offered.

I hope Wentz is gone, the Eagles take a cap hit and get scraps for draft picks.

I think they're drafting a QB at 6  
No Where Man : 2/16/2021 6:22 pm : link
.
Sounds like Wentz wants to go to Indy  
GiantGolfer : 2/16/2021 6:38 pm : link
But they aren’t offering Philly what they want.
Getting any QB with MVP upside out of the divison  
Metnut : 2/16/2021 6:49 pm : link
is a victory for Giants IMO. I hope they deal him and Dallas deals Prescott also.
Wentz played very poor in 2020 and sometimes  
chick310 : 2/16/2021 6:54 pm : link
almost shockingly bad. He was so indecisive in the pocket and still put the ball in harms way far too often. Realizing he has not been the same since injuring that knee a few years ago, he still should plenty of game last season. So that made 2020 very surprising to me.

Hopefully for Giants, Eagles don't get too much for Wentz and/or Hurts doesn't wind up being the guy for them. It would be nice to have the Eagles struggle for a few years.

Don't have a read yet on Jalen Hurts. Have seen some good and some not so good.
The way back machine on BBI can be fun  
Go Terps : 2/16/2021 6:58 pm : link
Quote:
You know who should be looking hard at Jackson?
Go Terps : 2/2/2018 5:28 pm : link
Philly. He can do what Wentz can, but better and healthier.


Philly should have (and could have) seen this coming years ago.
Link - ( New Window )
Unlike some here,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 7:01 pm : link
I was surprised by Hurts’ performance save for the last game. Surprised in that he had virtually zero experience, minimal reps and was thrust into a starting role without much REAL combat to deal with.

Is he their future? No idea, but Wentz is really an injury waiting to happen. Pretty fragile and though chronologically young, I believe he’s seen better days no matter who He plays for next season, imho.
RE: The way back machine on BBI can be fun  
UConn4523 : 2/16/2021 7:11 pm : link
In comment 15154763 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


You know who should be looking hard at Jackson?
Go Terps : 2/2/2018 5:28 pm : link
Philly. He can do what Wentz can, but better and healthier.



Philly should have (and could have) seen this coming years ago. Link - ( New Window )


Name any team that operates this way. And I partly agree that teams need to stop thinking they can just get a 10 year starter, but until we see that trend drastically shift it just isn’t realistic.
Better them then us.....  
George from PA : 2/16/2021 7:12 pm : link
At his salary and current level of play....shocked they get anything.

But somehow they always get bailed out
RE: The way back machine on BBI can be fun  
Sean : 2/16/2021 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15154763 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


You know who should be looking hard at Jackson?
Go Terps : 2/2/2018 5:28 pm : link
Philly. He can do what Wentz can, but better and healthier.



Philly should have (and could have) seen this coming years ago. Link - ( New Window )


Typically I’d say this could never happen, but the Eagles did win it with Foles + Wentz coming off a brutal injury. A move like that presents incredible risk though, so it’s hard to foresee any team making a move like it. If it doesn’t work or Wentz flourishes elsewhere, everyone is fired. But, the Eagles had Foles to help sell the move.

Ironically, the Ravens traded up with the Eagles to draft Lamar.
UConn  
Go Terps : 2/16/2021 7:17 pm : link
You're right. No one does. Why do you think that is? Personally I think it's due in part to a culture of poor performance at the ownership/front office levels around the league. Covering your own ass under an impetuous owner takes precedence over strategic long range planning.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/16/2021 7:19 pm : link
I don't get the Hurts love. From what I saw...meh. That's me though.
RE: UConn  
UConn4523 : 2/16/2021 7:25 pm : link
In comment 15154776 Go Terps said:
Quote:
You're right. No one does. Why do you think that is? Personally I think it's due in part to a culture of poor performance at the ownership/front office levels around the league. Covering your own ass under an impetuous owner takes precedence over strategic long range planning.


I don’t. I think there’s a ton of risk associated to scrapping something this important cold turkey. It can also really hurt the culture of a team to know even when things are going good you still won’t take care of your own/will toss a player away on what can be described as a whim. It’s basically turnover above all else which I think has a very short shelf life, and no guarantee of working.

I don’t really subscribe to the “cover your ass” theory as ownership would have to bless something like this to happen anyway.
It's almost like players are people  
adamg : 2/16/2021 7:28 pm : link
and not cogs in a Madden machine...
This is the reason..  
Sean : 2/16/2021 7:31 pm : link
Quote:
Covering your own ass under an impetuous owner takes precedence over strategic long range planning.


A third of the NFL churns out head coaches every year. Most HC’s get 2, 3 years top to win, and if not they are fired. The cycle just goes on and on. The general manager tends to have a longer shelf life, probably because they can blame the head coach for lack of success.

For ballsy moves like this to happen, there needs to be a lockstep, long term approach from owner to general manager to head coach - an understanding that everyone is there long term. No blame games, no hidden agendas. Most importantly, not getting influenced by the fans. If the players revolt? The players get shipped out. Everyone needs to be on the same page.

I just don’t think that happens. Once the losing starts, it is human nature to protect your desk.

It’s very exhausting watching Terps try to  
GiantGolfer : 2/16/2021 7:41 pm : link
Insert his idiotic narrative that his Madden GM skills can translate to the NFL.
I still think Wentz has quality years left...  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 7:42 pm : link
If you look back at 2019, he did a helluva job rallying a decimated team to a division title. They won the last four games - essentially all of December was playoff mode - and Wentz was the driver. He completed 67% of his passes, 7 TDs/0 INTs, and almost 7 YPA throwing to Boston Scott, Greg Ward, Josh Perkins, Dallas Goedert, etc.

This year, he just tried too hard and couldn't stop trying to make the "hero" play. I thought his fundamentals got all screwed up and he contracted the yips. And the team paid a big price. Which led to all of the dissension inside the team. So it it probably the right time to end the relationship.

I have no idea what to expect now from Sirianni as a first time HC and haven't been impressed with Hurts. So the Eagles seem like they are in no man's land right now.

RE: Unlike some here,  
eclipz928 : 2/16/2021 7:46 pm : link
In comment 15154764 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I was surprised by Hurts’ performance save for the last game. Surprised in that he had virtually zero experience, minimal reps and was thrust into a starting role without much REAL combat to deal with

Yea, I don't understand how anyone could not be impressed by Hurts. His first full start was against the Saints who had a top 3 defense. He got the win for the Eagles while helping them score the most points they had in 7 weeks. Then the following two games he threw for 300 yds and rushed for 60 yards in each before getting pulled for the tank job in the final game. You couldn't ask a rookie to do more than that on a offense that most of us were saying was completely devoid of healthy talent when Wentz was the starter.
From what I saw...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/16/2021 7:48 pm : link
I thought Jones looked a helluva lot more impressive as a rookie than Hurts.
RE: I still think Wentz has quality years left...  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15154804 bw in dc said:
Quote:
If you look back at 2019, he did a helluva job rallying a decimated team to a division title. They won the last four games - essentially all of December was playoff mode - and Wentz was the driver. He completed 67% of his passes, 7 TDs/0 INTs, and almost 7 YPA throwing to Boston Scott, Greg Ward, Josh Perkins, Dallas Goedert, etc.

This year, he just tried too hard and couldn't stop trying to make the "hero" play. I thought his fundamentals got all screwed up and he contracted the yips. And the team paid a big price. Which led to all of the dissension inside the team. So it it probably the right time to end the relationship.

I have no idea what to expect now from Sirianni as a first time HC and haven't been impressed with Hurts. So the Eagles seem like they are in no man's land right now.


Not comparing them, but you really have selective reasoning..You say that DJ took a step back in ‘20 from his ‘19 rookie season. Yet, you make all kinds of excuses for Wentz in ‘20, but have no problem harkening back to the year before (‘19)..

DJ just 25 games in, regressed and gets no credit for ‘19..Wentz regressed, gets all kinds of excuses, but it’s ok to go back to the year before..And please, no give me Wentz’ career in the main, that’s not relevant to your points.
no give me=don’t give me  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 7:52 pm : link
.
RE: RE: I still think Wentz has quality years left...  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 7:59 pm : link
In comment 15154809 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15154804 bw in dc said:


Quote:


If you look back at 2019, he did a helluva job rallying a decimated team to a division title. They won the last four games - essentially all of December was playoff mode - and Wentz was the driver. He completed 67% of his passes, 7 TDs/0 INTs, and almost 7 YPA throwing to Boston Scott, Greg Ward, Josh Perkins, Dallas Goedert, etc.

This year, he just tried too hard and couldn't stop trying to make the "hero" play. I thought his fundamentals got all screwed up and he contracted the yips. And the team paid a big price. Which led to all of the dissension inside the team. So it it probably the right time to end the relationship.

I have no idea what to expect now from Sirianni as a first time HC and haven't been impressed with Hurts. So the Eagles seem like they are in no man's land right now.




Not comparing them, but you really have selective reasoning..You say that DJ took a step back in ‘20 from his ‘19 rookie season. Yet, you make all kinds of excuses for Wentz in ‘20, but have no problem harkening back to the year before (‘19)..

DJ just 25 games in, regressed and gets no credit for ‘19..Wentz regressed, gets all kinds of excuses, but it’s ok to go back to the year before..And please, no give me Wentz’ career in the main, that’s not relevant to your points.


What excuses am I making for Wentz's decline in '20? I am describing how I thought his season went.

When Jones can put together seasons like Wentz, and show an MVP level and ability to drag a team to the playoffs, let's re-open the discussion.
Re-read what you wrote  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 8:03 pm : link
prior to my comment afterwards. You make excuses for Wentz’ ‘20 and laud his ‘19..Yet you harp on DJ’s “regression” this year, but give no credit for his rookie year..As far as you’ve been concerned, it’s his LATEST year that matters now..Not so with Wentz..
In other words, as far as you’re concerned,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 8:08 pm : link
all that matters is Jones’ rookie year does not matter. It’s what he did this year that’s forming your judgement. Well, following that line of thinking, who cares what Wentz did last year, only this year matters
RE: Re-read what you wrote  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 8:21 pm : link
In comment 15154819 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
prior to my comment afterwards. You make excuses for Wentz’ ‘20 and laud his ‘19..Yet you harp on DJ’s “regression” this year, but give no credit for his rookie year..As far as you’ve been concerned, it’s his LATEST year that matters now..Not so with Wentz..


I said Wentz tried to play "hero" ball. His fundamentals suffered and he struggled to make reads. And the Eagles paid the price for Wentz's play. Where is the excuse?
RE: RE: Re-read what you wrote  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 8:30 pm : link
In comment 15154833 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15154819 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


prior to my comment afterwards. You make excuses for Wentz’ ‘20 and laud his ‘19..Yet you harp on DJ’s “regression” this year, but give no credit for his rookie year..As far as you’ve been concerned, it’s his LATEST year that matters now..Not so with Wentz..



I said Wentz tried to play "hero" ball. His fundamentals suffered and he struggled to make reads. And the Eagles paid the price for Wentz's play. Where is the excuse?


Ok and I say, DJ, flaws and all, was moving the chains pre-injury without Barkley and questionable receivers and then lost what allowed for his effectiveness, his mobility, so when he returned he essentially was operating on one wheel. THAT more than anything contributed to his lack of effective post injury. Yet, you never acknowledged that clear factor. In its stead you harped on his flaws.

But somehow, you acknowledge this “hero” thing as contributing to his problems..

You don’t see the point here?
......  
Route 9 : 2/16/2021 8:31 pm : link
They'll dump him and get 2 first rounders and a starter on DL .... and a punter.
BB'56...  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 8:35 pm : link
Do you agree that Wentz made chicken salad in 2019?
RE: BB'56...  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 8:37 pm : link
In comment 15154844 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Do you agree that Wentz made chicken salad in 2019?


He may or may not have. Irrelevant to the point I’m making..

I think Mark S would slap the shit out off you..:)
off=of  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 8:38 pm : link
.
It's relevant because...  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 8:42 pm : link
it shows Wentz's ability to lift the play of his team, despite the talent deficiency.

Has Jones shown that ability?

So the Eagles had more injuries...  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 8:44 pm : link
in 2020 and Wentz tried to force the issue by going for plays with a low probability of success. And that "hero" ball approach really hurt the team.
My view on the Eagles/Wentz situation?  
BelieveJJ : 2/16/2021 8:49 pm : link
Birds' eye, of course.
Again with the excuse..  
Big Blue '56 : 2/16/2021 8:51 pm : link
Wentz stunk this year. That’s what is before us..How many games has he played? DJ has 25 under his belt..Judge appears to like him, to what he did pre-injury and even his performance in a game we had to win against Dallas albeit with limited mobility..

Still, we’ll see what ‘21 brings..
Jones’ 2019 needs to be heavily discounted due to  
cosmicj : 2/16/2021 8:53 pm : link
Shurmur. We don’t know who the real Jones is yet, but that rookie season looks suspiciously like a mirage. We will see.
Maybe it's a change in philosophy  
HomerJones45 : 2/16/2021 8:54 pm : link
teams are not as patient as they once were. They aren't patient with draft picks and they aren't patient with highly compensated players.

Wentz had a bad year last year. The previous three years, he was very, very good. But Hurts is less expensive even if he sucks (which he did against Washington, he was terrible) so why take a chance- get rid of Wentz and roll the dice with cheap Hurts who maybe gets hot and wins the division. What the hell, WFT won the division and they barely had a qb.
RE: RE: UConn  
Go Terps : 2/16/2021 8:55 pm : link
In comment 15154787 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15154776 Go Terps said:


Quote:


You're right. No one does. Why do you think that is? Personally I think it's due in part to a culture of poor performance at the ownership/front office levels around the league. Covering your own ass under an impetuous owner takes precedence over strategic long range planning.



I don’t. I think there’s a ton of risk associated to scrapping something this important cold turkey. It can also really hurt the culture of a team to know even when things are going good you still won’t take care of your own/will toss a player away on what can be described as a whim. It’s basically turnover above all else which I think has a very short shelf life, and no guarantee of working.

I don’t really subscribe to the “cover your ass” theory as ownership would have to bless something like this to happen anyway.


I'm not sure about that.

1. What's the bigger risk? Paying a huge contract to an injured QB without whom you won the Super Bowl anyway, or going to a talented first round QB on a rookie contract?
2. I don't buy the culture argument with regards to turning over the roster. The average roster turns over every 3-4 years as it is. Each player is his own CEO, and is going to do what works best for him. Also, didn't we just see a team with a lot of mercenaries (Brady, Gronk, Fournette, Brown, Suh off the top of my head) win the Super Bowl?

It's the same thing people were saying when the Pats cut Lawyer Milloy - it was BS then and it's BS now. Players follow two things: money and winning (in party because winning leads to more money).
RE: Jones’ 2019 needs to be heavily discounted due to  
Go Terps : 2/16/2021 8:56 pm : link
In comment 15154866 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Shurmur. We don’t know who the real Jones is yet, but that rookie season looks suspiciously like a mirage. We will see.


And that year still kind of stunk.
Don’t really know what to tell you  
UConn4523 : 2/16/2021 9:21 pm : link
you want sports to work differently than they do. And there’s no risk at all with teams operating this way - they are making money hand over fist win or lose and there’s less backlash from fans cutting a player too late than risking getting rid of a guy who wins elsewhere..

Until something like relegation happens, and it likely never will, you aren’t going to get what you want.
I don't know  
Go Terps : 2/16/2021 9:56 pm : link
At some point these guys have to realize it's worse to pay the wrong QB than it is to be looking for a QB.
I think they do  
UConn4523 : 2/16/2021 10:17 pm : link
to an extent, but when they still sell out stadiums and a million jerseys if said player, what’s the downside?

Not winning a title matters a lot more to fans than the owners. To varying degrees depending on the owner but as long as they are making that money I genuinely think they don’t really care if they have a 6 win team or not. And the NFL is built to make it hard to have a dynasty so you are always 1 great draft pick away, sometimes be sheer dumb luck, to having a title run.
Wentz's OL  
allstarjim : 2/16/2021 10:19 pm : link
Fell completely apart in '20 and I think the rush got to his head. He's a franchise QB.
RE: Don’t really know what to tell you  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 10:22 pm : link
In comment 15154885 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you want sports to work differently than they do. And there’s no risk at all with teams operating this way - they are making money hand over fist win or lose and there’s less backlash from fans cutting a player too late than risking getting rid of a guy who wins elsewhere..

Until something like relegation happens, and it likely never will, you aren’t going to get what you want.


You are likely right here. Owners know their direct costs every year, can lock it in, and everyone makes money. All under the guise of "competitive balance", which is a euphemism for making money hand over fist, win or lose. What a system.

And as long as the players keep falling for the banana in the tailpipe with this hard cap system, which actually hurts players contracts because there are teams who would spend even MORE for players (Dallas, Seattle, etc), it's not going to change for a long time.
RE: Again with the excuse..  
bw in dc : 2/16/2021 10:31 pm : link
In comment 15154863 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Wentz stunk this year. That’s what is before us..How many games has he played? DJ has 25 under his belt..Judge appears to like him, to what he did pre-injury and even his performance in a game we had to win against Dallas albeit with limited mobility..

Still, we’ll see what ‘21 brings..


I agree that Wentz was horrible. But he has equity built up because he's played well in prior years and has done some good things with subpar talent.

RE: It's relevant because...  
Tom in NY : 2/17/2021 12:16 am : link
In comment 15154855 bw in dc said:
Quote:
it shows Wentz's ability to lift the play of his team, despite the talent deficiency.

Has Jones shown that ability?


That's also Wentz in year 4 if his career. .let's see how DJ does in year 3 of his.
Both sides have issues  
djstat : 2/17/2021 8:05 am : link
Wentz and Eagles management have issues. Apparently teammates do not think highly of Wentz and that seems obvious as you have not heard from one player lobbying in his favor. He had a good season in 2017, but so did the entire team. The line was outstanding and a good OLINE can make an average QB look like an MVP (1991 Mark Rypein comes to mind).

The Eagles org is a mess. The lack of communication at the top with Lurie, Roseman and Pederson was comical at the end of the season was laughable and the coach they hired can barely speak.

Wentz is not worth one first round pick, let alone two. The fact that the Eagles have allowed it to be known they basically want to rid themselves of Wentz eliminates their leverage...oh and he has not been a good QB in multiple seasons. What made him special in ‘17 has been gone since his injury. At best I think they get a 2nd rounder this year and a third next year or nothing at all. My bet is on nothing.
Terps  
ryanmkeane : 2/17/2021 8:27 am : link
your Jones schtick is getting old man. Do something else with your life for the next 5 months.
RE: Wentz played very poor in 2020 and sometimes  
Dr. D : 2/17/2021 8:27 am : link
In comment 15154754 chick310 said:
Quote:
It would be nice to have the Eagles struggle for the rest of my life!


Is that what you meant to say?
RE: It’s very exhausting watching Terps try to  
Dr. D : 2/17/2021 8:41 am : link
In comment 15154802 GiantGolfer said:
Quote:
Insert his idiotic narrative that his Madden GM skills can translate to the NFL.

He would win GM of the year EVERY year. They would just call it the Go Terps award.

At NFL awards ceremony:

.. And the Go Terps award goes to.. (drum roll).. Go Terps! For the 15th year in a row!

(from the audience: "give someone else a chance, Go Terps!")
I hope they keep Wentz.  
NoPeanutz : 2/17/2021 8:47 am : link
He's not that good. He can't stay healthy. He's uncoachable. He's just not that special. He costs them a yooj amount of their cap. And as long as he is on the team, their 2020 2nd round pick is a bust.

And if Phila does manage to trade him, you know they'll get at least 2 first rounders back for him, because that is what Philadelphia does... finds sucker teams to way overpay for their hot garbage china doll QBs.
RE: RE: BB'56...  
Dr. D : 2/17/2021 8:52 am : link
In comment 15154850 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15154844 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I think Mark S would slap the shit out off you..:)

I grew up on a dairy farm and the cows would often have cow shit on their tails and they would often swing their tails to swat flies off their backs. Sometimes as they swung their tails, shit would fly off and hit one of us; sometimes in the face and I would wish someone would slap the shit off me. Those were the days.
My view of the Wentz situation is that I'd  
DonQuixote : 2/17/2021 9:07 am : link
rather he be out of the division.

He obviously has talent. He basically needs a good therapist/sports psychologist.
It's an Eagles situation  
DavidinBMNY : 2/17/2021 2:51 pm : link
They created this by drafting Hurts in Rd 2. The outcome it is leading to is very predictable.

I think Wentz can do well, and a fresh start is good for him. I think Eagles are better off with him then Hurts, so I think the Eagles will be back at the QB decision point again soon.

Hurts was replaced by Tua. Tua isn't proving to be amazing at the NFL. Both have ability but not Mahomes ability or anything.
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