Chad Forbes
@NFLDraftBites
Chandler Jones due $15.5M in Final Yr of Cardinals deal. Potential cap causality or even trade target for #Giants. Especially if willing to restructure deal. Just spit balling here. Evan Engram for Chandler Jones?
Chad Forbes
@NFLDraftBites
#Giants Fans won’t love it but expect they pursue Titans UFA WR Corey Davis in Free Agency. Don’t expect Allen Robinson or Chris Godwin get to market. And both will command top WR money. Davis should require deal in $13-$15M range.
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It seems like the Titans lucked into AJ Brown at the tail end of rd 2 and are prepared to move on without him.
He's a part of a run first offense and, when healthy, still puts up decent numbers.
If they can get a deal on him - I kinda like what he brings to the table.
Former #5 overall pick - 6'3 209 pds - plays on the outside...
Agreed. Fully expect the Giants to overpay for Davis once Robinson and Golladay are tagged, as a reactionary move. Davis is not a number 1 at all.
Was this for the pay day or was it mediocre QB play by Tannehill who doesn't spread the ball well?
Or is he blossoming just at the right time?
He makes a lot of sense and would seemingly fill a need here.
Especially this year where there are a lot of cap strapped teams - the Giants might be able to get a good deal on him.
Was this for the pay day or was it mediocre QB play by Tannehill who doesn't spread the ball well?
Or is he blossoming just at the right time?
Huh? He had 3 100 yd games in the final 7 weeks.
1st 7 games: 34 rec 436 yds 12.8 ypr 3 TDs 70.8 catch%
Last 7 games: 31 rec 548 yds 17.7 ypr 2 TDs 70.5 catch%
Only big difference was yards/reception. And the only Giants WR that even comes close to his 14.7 ypr he's averaged the last 2 seasons is Slayton. Shepard's career avg is 11.2 (and trending downwards), Engram 11.2 (with a pitiful 6.0 y/tgt) for reference.
Me too.
I think Davis can break out a bit in right situation with a passing offense, but I am not paying that kind of coin (he's not a #1).
Giants need to add some better pass rush/matchup figure in the front 7 to team with LW. Not sure Jones is a fit at his age. I think Reddick is a FA? Maybe they will tag him, but he'd be a better addition for pass rushing off edge and playing in multiples.
Jones at this point isn't a guy who can handle parade of snaps and sell the QB multiple front confusion.
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His second half numbers (final 8 games) included 5 100 yd games, with an 11 catch/182 yd game and an 8 catch/128yd game. For a total of 761 yds in 7 games (with one I think he didn't play in).
Was this for the pay day or was it mediocre QB play by Tannehill who doesn't spread the ball well?
Or is he blossoming just at the right time?
Huh? He had 3 100 yd games in the final 7 weeks.
1st 7 games: 34 rec 436 yds 12.8 ypr 3 TDs 70.8 catch%
Last 7 games: 31 rec 548 yds 17.7 ypr 2 TDs 70.5 catch%
Only big difference was yards/reception. And the only Giants WR that even comes close to his 14.7 ypr he's averaged the last 2 seasons is Slayton. Shepard's career avg is 11.2 (and trending downwards), Engram 11.2 (with a pitiful 6.0 y/tgt) for reference.
You are correct I miscalculated.
I was counting week 8 where he had the 128yd game vs the Bengals. But including that it was 4 not 5 100 yd games.
In any event the numbers are still really really good in the 2nd half.
You are correct I miscalculated.
I was counting week 8 where he had the 128yd game vs the Bengals. But including that it was 4 not 5 100 yd games.
In any event the numbers are still really really good in the 2nd half.
Ok, but he missed a couple games because of Covid (IIRC) so week 8 was only the 5th game he played last year. And his numbers those first 5 weeks were pretty good. Averaged: 6/74/0.6 while catching ~75% of his targets.
It would open up some flexibilities to go BPA in front 3 rounds if played out that way.
You like Smith-Schuster as a target? You think they might cut Shepard and Tate?
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He's not likely to get "top dollar" though. I think there's a decent chance you can get him on a DeVante Parker like deal.
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I like Reddick at OLB. If they found a way to sign him and put Carl Lawson on the strong side, sign Ju Ju, retain LW ... they'd be freed up for their draft.
It would open up some flexibilities to go BPA in front 3 rounds if played out that way.
You like Smith-Schuster as a target? You think they might cut Shepard and Tate?
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I think Smith-Schuster is better than the numbers suggest from last season. I also don’t think he is just a “slot” guy. Big Ben’s arm is shot and they hardly threw the ball downfield. I remember one game where Smith-Schuster had like 8 catches for 37 yards.
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I like Reddick at OLB. If they found a way to sign him and put Carl Lawson on the strong side, sign Ju Ju, retain LW ... they'd be freed up for their draft.
It would open up some flexibilities to go BPA in front 3 rounds if played out that way.
You like Smith-Schuster as a target? You think they might cut Shepard and Tate?
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Just imo at this point, I think Tate's out and Shep stays. The savings from cutting him isn't worth creating another hole. Also don't think they cut Zeitler, the OL is too young and fragile as is. I'm hoping to hear about their WR targets, nothing yet.
Well he did have a fantastic last 8-9 games to the season. So there's that.
If you check the snap counts, he did play every game in the second half.
Week 16 he played 82% of snaps and had zero receptions on two targets.
Then Week 18, the playoff game, he again had zero receptions on two targets playing 64% of snaps.
There were camera shots of him on the sidelines in that game, with the Titans offense on the field playing for their season.
That's an unsettling finish for a guy who you might be thinking of giving the big bucks.
But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone.
Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question.
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But not thrilled with paying Davis 13-15 million a year. I’d rather pick up a guy like Higgins and draft another one high then do that.
The WR tag is $16.5M, and they're going to pay Corey Davis almost that much? Yuck.
I'd rather pony up for one of the top guys, or go for Samuel or Godwin.
One of the top guys won't even likely hit FA. And Samuel or Godwin are the top guys--even if they did hit FA, they are going to get a ton more than some lesser guy.
Curious to see how it plays out. Davis isn't great but might fill a hole here if he's ready for it. Godwin would be terrific, but I can't see Tampa or anyone else going away without a fight.
That's an offseason plan at WR I can get behind. David and a first or even second round WR...that works.
The top guys are: ARob, Godwin and Golladay. Those 3 are likely to get franchise tagged and if they don't they'll easily top $17M per year (I'd wager they get closer to $20M per, especially the former 2).
But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone.
Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question.
Why would anybody assume the alternative is "the money doesn't go to anyone"?
The Giants do not typically operate with a significant cushion under the cap each year. In fact, they take it right up to the limit as the norm.
I’d rather see is re-sign Tomlinson and draft 2 WR’s (one in either round 1 or 2, and 1 in the 3-5 round range) if none of the top FA receivers are available.
I have no idea why Davis - a #5 overall pick in the NFL draft wasn't an All-Pro in Tenn. I don't have time to watch the all-22 and break down the strengths and weaknesses of his game. I have some guesse: #1 they want to run the ball first so there's only going to be so many targets to around #2 being that AJ Brown is better than him #3 the 1st two years of his career he was saddled with some horrific QBs #4 injuries have been an issue...
But Judge and Gettleman should be doing their due diligence on every WR...and last year's 2nd tier FA crop worked out pretty well - so they clearly know what they're doing in that department...
I think Corey Davis fits the mold of what the Giants did with Bradberry and Martinez pretty closely last year. I could envision a scenario in which he could be an important piece of this offense moving forward - Like Plaxico was however many years ago.
I have no idea why Davis - a #5 overall pick in the NFL draft wasn't an All-Pro in Tenn. I don't have time to watch the all-22 and break down the strengths and weaknesses of his game. I have some guesse: #1 they want to run the ball first so there's only going to be so many targets to around #2 being that AJ Brown is better than him #3 the 1st two years of his career he was saddled with some horrific QBs #4 injuries have been an issue...
But Judge and Gettleman should be doing their due diligence on every WR...and last year's 2nd tier FA crop worked out pretty well - so they clearly know what they're doing in that department...
I think Corey Davis fits the mold of what the Giants did with Bradberry and Martinez pretty closely last year. I could envision a scenario in which he could be an important piece of this offense moving forward - Like Plaxico was however many years ago.
I like Davis at the right price. But the rumored 13-15 million a year seems a bit steep.
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the Giants try and sign one of the lower level WRs like Davis and he will still get paid a lot, because vet FAs always get paid a lot, and 75% of BBI goes ape shit.
But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone.
Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question.
Why would anybody assume the alternative is "the money doesn't go to anyone"?
The Giants do not typically operate with a significant cushion under the cap each year. In fact, they take it right up to the limit as the norm.
BEcause the money isn't likely going to go to some other magical FA that is just sitting there begging to be signed. That's been my gripe with people bitching about the money all along. WHo else is getting that money? Who else is getting that signing bonus that Solder got? And he's an extreme example.
Just because you overpaid one guy doesn't mean that same money would have gone to some slam dunk perfect player instead. And that's the line of thinking many here adopt.
Just my pet peeve.
Sometimes you're damned if you do or don't. Fans lamenting a contract at every turn overstates the cap space lost. IT quite possibly wouldn't have been used on any one better.
It aint that easy to just say oh that's an overpay lets save that money for the just right player this year or next.
Thuney at OG
Lawson at EDGE
Re-sign Williams
Pitts or WR in round 1
That would be a very solid start to the offseason.
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In comment 15155557 djm said:
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the Giants try and sign one of the lower level WRs like Davis and he will still get paid a lot, because vet FAs always get paid a lot, and 75% of BBI goes ape shit.
But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone.
Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question.
Why would anybody assume the alternative is "the money doesn't go to anyone"?
The Giants do not typically operate with a significant cushion under the cap each year. In fact, they take it right up to the limit as the norm.
BEcause the money isn't likely going to go to some other magical FA that is just sitting there begging to be signed. That's been my gripe with people bitching about the money all along. WHo else is getting that money? Who else is getting that signing bonus that Solder got? And he's an extreme example.
Just because you overpaid one guy doesn't mean that same money would have gone to some slam dunk perfect player instead. And that's the line of thinking many here adopt.
Just my pet peeve.
You aren't making any sense and altering your statement a bit.
I told you the Giants basically spend right up to the cap so the money is basically going to another free agent (or multiple ones). They may not be a perfect player(s), but who says the first one was going to be?
Hopefully you aren't thinking the Giants are under the cap so they start paying out extra, non-contractual bonuses to existing players on the roster just to spend it. Are you?
You are getting infuriated with fans that don't have anything to do with that decision?
Any by the way, nobody on this site wants to not sign Williams because he is too costly and "bank" the money for a rainy day. They want it to go to what they believe are better areas/resources for the roster. You may not agree or like that idea, but don't represent it falsely.
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In comment 15155557 djm said:
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the Giants try and sign one of the lower level WRs like Davis and he will still get paid a lot, because vet FAs always get paid a lot, and 75% of BBI goes ape shit.
But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone.
Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question.
Why would anybody assume the alternative is "the money doesn't go to anyone"?
The Giants do not typically operate with a significant cushion under the cap each year. In fact, they take it right up to the limit as the norm.
BEcause the money isn't likely going to go to some other magical FA that is just sitting there begging to be signed. That's been my gripe with people bitching about the money all along. WHo else is getting that money? Who else is getting that signing bonus that Solder got? And he's an extreme example.
Just because you overpaid one guy doesn't mean that same money would have gone to some slam dunk perfect player instead. And that's the line of thinking many here adopt.
Just my pet peeve.
Every time you go into this rant about "who else would you have spent the money on" it reads like you don't know much about the salary cap.
The cap space doesn't expire, teams can roll it over and/or use it to manage their own extensions (in terms of bonus structure or frontloading the salary) to use the cap space now in order to have that cap space back in a future year with a different FA class available. Or you might take that big splash money and go get multiple 2nd tier FAs, some of which will invariably prove to be massive bargains (like Logan Ryan, or the way that Markus Golden was his first year here).
A bad contract is a bad contract and it will never be an advantage to sign FAs to bad contracts just because you have money burning a hole in your pocket.
Or, in your case, just because you have what seems like a fetish for overpaying veteran FAs because that makes you feel like the team is more committed to winning (I could be wrong, but it seems like that's the POV you espouse across multiple sports).
Thuney at OG
Lawson at EDGE
Re-sign Williams
Pitts or WR in round 1
That would be a very solid start to the offseason.
This has got to be a sign of the apocalypse - I agree that would be a nice offseason.
Chandler Jones would be a welcome addition but wherever he plays , it’s not going to be on the cheap . Davis is in a nice place . The 2 guys in front of him might get tagged . He’s good but is he that much better than Golden Tate was when Gettleman signed him ?
My hope is that number nuts keeps the DLine intact and gets the wide receiver in the draft . And early in the draft . The Packers are allegedly going to be all in for Tomlinson . Naive to think he won’t have offers .
I don't agree on Short vs. Williams or Tomlinson. Sure I'd rather have both Williams and Tomlinson but the reality is we might not be able to afford both and Tomlinson is more replaceable - Short could be a nice backfall on a short term deal. Vets are where the bargains will be had, IMO.
Chandler Jones would be a welcome addition but wherever he plays , it’s not going to be on the cheap . Davis is in a nice place . The 2 guys in front of him might get tagged . He’s good but is he that much better than Golden Tate was when Gettleman signed him ?
My hope is that number nuts keeps the DLine intact and gets the wide receiver in the draft . And early in the draft . The Packers are allegedly going to be all in for Tomlinson . Naive to think he won’t have offers .
Davis may not be better than Tate was 2 years ago, but Tate was always better in the slot, where CD is nothing but an outside WR. He also just turned 26, so is less likely to fall off a cliff one year into his new deal.
I've already baked in the idea that LT will be gone, and I said a couple of months ago that GB would go hard after him. They need inside size desperately. However, it might mean cutting Preston Smith loose. Smith has a questionable motor at times, but I would definitely take a look at him.