Chad Forbes speculates on the Giants Offseason

In comment 15155568 chick310 said:

Quote:

In comment 15155557 djm said: Quote: the Giants try and sign one of the lower level WRs like Davis and he will still get paid a lot, because vet FAs always get paid a lot, and 75% of BBI goes ape shit. But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone. Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question. Why would anybody assume the alternative is "the money doesn't go to anyone"? The Giants do not typically operate with a significant cushion under the cap each year. In fact, they take it right up to the limit as the norm.

BEcause the money isn't likely going to go to some other magical FA that is just sitting there begging to be signed. That's been my gripe with people bitching about the money all along. WHo else is getting that money? Who else is getting that signing bonus that Solder got? And he's an extreme example.

Just because you overpaid one guy doesn't mean that same money would have gone to some slam dunk perfect player instead. And that's the line of thinking many here adopt.

Just my pet peeve.

is you want to draft well above anything else and you want to be sure you aren't letting your own good players get away because finding worthy replacements, or even finding worthy players period, in FA, can be dicey. With that said, if you suck at drafting and then overpay in FA that doesn't mean that overpay was the sole reason why your team sucks going forward. Yea you overpaid, but you likely aren't getting anyone else anyway.

Sometimes you're damned if you do or don't. Fans lamenting a contract at every turn overstates the cap space lost. IT quite possibly wouldn't have been used on any one better.

we have to admit to ourselves that players of Davis’ caliber are going to get paid around 11-14M bucks a year. It is what it is. Doesn’t mean you have to do it - but that’s what those guys get paid. It isn’t huge money, it’s just a lot for a guy who doesn’t produce a ton, but is still a good weapon.

I find it downright infuriating that people here actually want to let Williams get away. You've got to be kidding me. First great player or whatever stupid label you want to call him, very good, good, whatever, the guy makes a difference, in ages here and it's too much money? Get the hell out of here. NY Giants can't re-sign their own guy because he's too costly...cmon.

and help us win games that we couldn't win without him, even if he's an overpay, ask yourself which is better? Not paying Davis and spreading that money around over the next 2-3 years and getting more quantity but less production or even nothing? Where else is that X signing bonus going? You want to allocate that money to a better quality edge player? Good luck with that as edge guys get paid too, and likely a lot more than Davis would get. You want to allocate that money to another WR in FA? Who?

It aint that easy to just say oh that's an overpay lets save that money for the just right player this year or next.

I hope we follow that up with:

Thuney at OG
Lawson at EDGE
Re-sign Williams
Pitts or WR in round 1

That would be a very solid start to the offseason.

In comment 15155630 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 15155568 chick310 said: Quote: In comment 15155557 djm said: Quote: the Giants try and sign one of the lower level WRs like Davis and he will still get paid a lot, because vet FAs always get paid a lot, and 75% of BBI goes ape shit. But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone. Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question. Why would anybody assume the alternative is "the money doesn't go to anyone"? The Giants do not typically operate with a significant cushion under the cap each year. In fact, they take it right up to the limit as the norm. BEcause the money isn't likely going to go to some other magical FA that is just sitting there begging to be signed. That's been my gripe with people bitching about the money all along. WHo else is getting that money? Who else is getting that signing bonus that Solder got? And he's an extreme example. Just because you overpaid one guy doesn't mean that same money would have gone to some slam dunk perfect player instead. And that's the line of thinking many here adopt. Just my pet peeve.

You aren't making any sense and altering your statement a bit.

I told you the Giants basically spend right up to the cap so the money is basically going to another free agent (or multiple ones). They may not be a perfect player(s), but who says the first one was going to be?

Hopefully you aren't thinking the Giants are under the cap so they start paying out extra, non-contractual bonuses to existing players on the roster just to spend it. Are you?

you guys are both correct. Market price is market price. At the end of the day, players who have played for a franchise for four years and are not being re-signed are clearly not viewed as top 3-4 guys on the teams they are coming from. Those guys usually get franchised or locked up early. So for the most part what you have in the FA pool are either good to very good younger players, and veterans looking for one last deal. Which means they get overpaid by someone who is flush with cap space. Sometimes they pan out, sometimes they don’t. Just re-emphasizes how important it is to draft well.

In comment 15155636 djm said:

Quote:

I find it downright infuriating that people here actually want to let Williams get away. You've got to be kidding me. First great player or whatever stupid label you want to call him, very good, good, whatever, the guy makes a difference, in ages here and it's too much money? Get the hell out of here. NY Giants can't re-sign their own guy because he's too costly...cmon.

You are getting infuriated with fans that don't have anything to do with that decision?

Any by the way, nobody on this site wants to not sign Williams because he is too costly and "bank" the money for a rainy day. They want it to go to what they believe are better areas/resources for the roster. You may not agree or like that idea, but don't represent it falsely.

In comment 15155630 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 15155568 chick310 said: Quote: In comment 15155557 djm said: Quote: the Giants try and sign one of the lower level WRs like Davis and he will still get paid a lot, because vet FAs always get paid a lot, and 75% of BBI goes ape shit. But the question people need to ask themselves, before implementing that same freak out response and nurturing that same belief for the next 2-3-4 years is are the Giants better off with an "overpaid" WR or NOTHING at all at WR? Don't just automatically assume that money is better spent elsewhere on some invisible yet magical FA player, assume the money doesn't go to anyone. Are the Giants better with a big WR who is at least adequate but makes a lot more money than a 4th round pick? That's the question. Why would anybody assume the alternative is "the money doesn't go to anyone"? The Giants do not typically operate with a significant cushion under the cap each year. In fact, they take it right up to the limit as the norm. BEcause the money isn't likely going to go to some other magical FA that is just sitting there begging to be signed. That's been my gripe with people bitching about the money all along. WHo else is getting that money? Who else is getting that signing bonus that Solder got? And he's an extreme example. Just because you overpaid one guy doesn't mean that same money would have gone to some slam dunk perfect player instead. And that's the line of thinking many here adopt. Just my pet peeve.

Every time you go into this rant about "who else would you have spent the money on" it reads like you don't know much about the salary cap.

The cap space doesn't expire, teams can roll it over and/or use it to manage their own extensions (in terms of bonus structure or frontloading the salary) to use the cap space now in order to have that cap space back in a future year with a different FA class available. Or you might take that big splash money and go get multiple 2nd tier FAs, some of which will invariably prove to be massive bargains (like Logan Ryan, or the way that Markus Golden was his first year here).

A bad contract is a bad contract and it will never be an advantage to sign FAs to bad contracts just because you have money burning a hole in your pocket.

Or, in your case, just because you have what seems like a fetish for overpaying veteran FAs because that makes you feel like the team is more committed to winning (I could be wrong, but it seems like that's the POV you espouse across multiple sports).

In comment 15155639 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

I hope we follow that up with: Thuney at OG Lawson at EDGE Re-sign Williams Pitts or WR in round 1 That would be a very solid start to the offseason.

This has got to be a sign of the apocalypse - I agree that would be a nice offseason.

just not at ~$15M. He is a big target, and a good blocker, so if you can get him at ~$12M AAV, I could live with it. I'd still prefer Robinson.

on Godwin. I think they would prefer to keep Shaq Barrett, so unless they can sign him early, they may want to save the tag for him.

is a malleable accounting device . That said , I wonder if Mr G might have his head in Carolina , again. Maybe give up on Leo. Sign Short . Sign Samuel . Short is 5 years older than Williams . It would be a dumb move . Hence I think it’s quite possible .

Chandler Jones would be a welcome addition but wherever he plays , it’s not going to be on the cheap . Davis is in a nice place . The 2 guys in front of him might get tagged . He’s good but is he that much better than Golden Tate was when Gettleman signed him ?

My hope is that number nuts keeps the DLine intact and gets the wide receiver in the draft . And early in the draft . The Packers are allegedly going to be all in for Tomlinson . Naive to think he won’t have offers .

thanks for nothing Chad

has far more upside than Golden Tate ever has. There's a reason its been largely untapped though - is it the offense or is it him? He's a risk but at the right price I'd love to have him.

I don't agree on Short vs. Williams or Tomlinson. Sure I'd rather have both Williams and Tomlinson but the reality is we might not be able to afford both and Tomlinson is more replaceable - Short could be a nice backfall on a short term deal. Vets are where the bargains will be had, IMO.

In comment 15156179 RetroJint said:

Quote:

is a malleable accounting device . That said , I wonder if Mr G might have his head in Carolina , again. Maybe give up on Leo. Sign Short . Sign Samuel . Short is 5 years older than Williams . It would be a dumb move . Hence I think it’s quite possible . Chandler Jones would be a welcome addition but wherever he plays , it’s not going to be on the cheap . Davis is in a nice place . The 2 guys in front of him might get tagged . He’s good but is he that much better than Golden Tate was when Gettleman signed him ? My hope is that number nuts keeps the DLine intact and gets the wide receiver in the draft . And early in the draft . The Packers are allegedly going to be all in for Tomlinson . Naive to think he won’t have offers .

Davis may not be better than Tate was 2 years ago, but Tate was always better in the slot, where CD is nothing but an outside WR. He also just turned 26, so is less likely to fall off a cliff one year into his new deal.

I've already baked in the idea that LT will be gone, and I said a couple of months ago that GB would go hard after him. They need inside size desperately. However, it might mean cutting Preston Smith loose. Smith has a questionable motor at times, but I would definitely take a look at him.