Eric Galko
@EricGalko
There are *multiple* NFL teams that have Zach Wilson above Trevor Lawrence. Mahomes and Kyler comparisons made for sure, as @nfldraftscout
mentioned.
see this same sh!t every year, though it was actually right with Mayfield > Darnold.
In this case though, I'm calling BS. Not that it matters since I'm sure the Jags are taking Lawrence and we'll never know if any team really had Wilson higher. This sounds like teams in the 2-6 range leaking it so they can claim afterwards they got their top rated QB!
its likely teams with Lawrence off their board due to the assumption he's going #1, if anything.
I definitely think there are those out there that might have an individual grade out in Wilson's favor but I highly doubt that would be the consensus of the entire scouting dept + GM.
Wilson is very good. I was really impressed by him and have had him ahead of Fields and Lance for a while. But I don't know about better than Lawrence.
Lawrence didn't look that great to me this year compared to his frosh and sophomore years. His ball didn't seem to have the same zip as prior years. But he's obviously a great overall talent who still looks the part.
As for Wilson, I'm just in awe of his arm and his ability to make every throw imaginable. I look at him and see a lot Aaron Rodgers skills.
Wilson is very good. I was really impressed by him and have had him ahead of Fields and Lance for a while. But I don't know about better than Lawrence.
Was thinking the same thing, how can 1 QB look like Mahomes and Murray, they are very different to me.
a) it's smoke put out to entice other teams to possibly consider a trade up.
if teams think a player (especially a QB) will not be there in their draft spot, QB is the most common target in a trade up or
b) Wilson is actually potentially actually being thought of as a better QB by scouts and not smoke to entice trade ups.
I don't watch a ton of college football, and have no opinion on draft rankings so I was legitimately curious.
I'm sure people who don't know will still respond flippantly like they do.
But even the 2018 draft when it was mostly Rosen and Darnold at the top in late December and then the combine seemed to bump up Mayfield and Allen, there is no combine this year so often what people think after the college season vs in April is different.
I'm not sure which is the case here: smoke or Wilson legit threat to Lawrence.
and RG3 went 2nd overall in their respective drafts.
I don't get the snarky replies.
It makes sense for teams to have them ranked over Peyton and Luck respectively.
What that has to do with teams having Wilson over Lawrence I don't get. If JAX does they'll likely take Lawrence if they don't then Wilson will be available at 2.
Reminds me of when we heard rumblings of teams that had
Leaf over Manning and RG3 over Luck. Not saying Wilson will be a bust like the other 2, but we’ve seen teams over analyzing generational QBs in the past too.
Wilson is saddled with the competition issue playing at BYU. So he/they haven't had any games near the level as Clemson. And in those games, Lawrence has done a lot of good things. Which certainly works to Lawrence's advantage.
But in terms of arm talent and making plays off script, I would say Wilson is better than Lawrence. Lawrence is the better athlete, so that makes him a better dual threat prospect. But Wilson can move, too, and is not unwilling to tuck it and run.
RE: Reminds me of when we heard rumblings of teams that had
Leaf over Manning and RG3 over Luck. Not saying Wilson will be a bust like the other 2, but we’ve seen teams over analyzing generational QBs in the past too.
If the two situations are similar you, Mike in NJ are saying Wilson will be a bust.
Or at a minimum to make the comparison of Leaf and Manning is similar with Wilson and Lawrence you are saying Lawrence is by far the better QB and will have a vastly better NFL career than Wilson.
If you're saying the case is neither then what is the relevance? Just saying different teams rank QB's differently?
Wilson is saddled with the competition issue playing at BYU. So he/they haven't had any games near the level as Clemson. And in those games, Lawrence has done a lot of good things. Which certainly works to Lawrence's advantage.
But in terms of arm talent and making plays off script, I would say Wilson is better than Lawrence. Lawrence is the better athlete, so that makes him a better dual threat prospect. But Wilson can move, too, and is not unwilling to tuck it and run.
I've seen Lawrence, I don't want much college ball, but I do watch the big games so I've seen him a few times.
I like him, I haven't seen Wilson, so not sure why people bring up Leaf when responding unless they're saying Wilson has high bust potential.
I think Wilson will be a good pro. There are some durability concerns, he's been dinged up a bit, but he's got a terrific arm and release.
Is his arm better than Lawrence's? Maybe, but they're both very good throwers. And I don't agree that Lawrence can't throw off-platform. Maybe he doesn't do it as often as Zach, but he is very capable.
Passing on Lawrence to take Wilson is how GM's get fired.
ex post facto, but he was the real deal in college and whatever happened between the draft and training camp, IDK. Peyton was the #1 and Leaf was closely ranked after him.
Lawrence is the #1, but he has not looked as good in the past two years as his 1st. Perhaps COVID put a beating on him this year, but I thought this was his worst of his 3 at Clemson.
If I was picking, Lawrence would be the guy and Wilson would be a distant 2nd. FWIW
ex post facto, but he was the real deal in college and whatever happened between the draft and training camp, IDK. Peyton was the #1 and Leaf was closely ranked after him.
Lawrence is the #1, but he has not looked as good in the past two years as his 1st. Perhaps COVID put a beating on him this year, but I thought this was his worst of his 3 at Clemson.
If I was picking, Lawrence would be the guy and Wilson would be a distant 2nd. FWIW
I remember reading that the Colts only made their decision on Peyton over Leaf after each of their Pro Days. During their respective workouts, Peyton's arm strength was better than advertised and Leaf's was worse. Once they realized that Peyton's arm was arguably stronger than Leaf's, it became an easy decision for them.
FWIW, Lawrence apparently had a really good pre-draft workout and confirmed that he had elite arm talent. So I think Wilson would really have to do something spectacular in pre-draft workouts to catch up to Lawrence.
1. He is very tall and lanky. NFL speed is vastly different than college. These tall running QB's are very prone to injury.
2. Competition. The ACC has been way down during his time. Clemson is way above talent wise. This is true of many QB's coming out. Still I think he has been shaky in a few of the playoff games.
Urban will at least set him up to succeed. He will build a strong OL and have a running game. You never know how well these guys will translate imo.
Not sure if anecdotal, but I think Colts were favoring Manning from Lead from the jump, but a ? about what they would do right after being drafted solidified them taking Peyton. I believe the ? was 'If we draft you, what's the first thing you're doing?' Manning responded that he would immediately delve into the playbook while Leaf said he would go to Vegas & party.
As long as Jacksonville thinks Lawrence is #1, who cares?
Between 2 and 10 matters for the Giants obviously and the more teams who take QB's the better (as long as the Giants don't plan to take one).
So it matters, but indirectly.
How much. Wilson will go as the 2nd QB if Lawrence goes #1 or vice versa. This really isn't impacting the Giants spot. How other QBs are viewed might, however.
I love stuff like this. The misdirection, the unknown, and
the so very obvious that is so obvious that maybe its actually misdirection otherwise it wouldn't need to be said.
As to why it matters...every single QB taken ahead of us provides the Giants more options at #11, assuming of course the Giants aren't interested in a QB.
Urban Meyer went to Jacksonville to draft Trevor Lawrence and that's all there is to it. I'd bet my three houses on that.
What this really means is that the Jet take Wilson with #2, unless they are blown away by some draft pick trade offer, e.g. Houston offers them Watson for their #2 pick (with which they then take Wilson). That or something like it could happen.
Is a tremendous prospect and it would not surprise me one bit if he had a better pro career than TL.
I'd deal Jonea for Wilson right now, and so would most NFL GMs, in spite of what Mel Kiper has to say.
This is the type of comment made so frequently that means absolutely fucking nothing.
You don't know what most NFL GM's would do. Fuck - you don't even know how GM's feel about Wilson or Jones.
We are all saying things here, on this board, that we project, or assume, or assert based on what we know about the NFL, human nature and common sense. yes I do not know personally NFL GMs and I am assuming they do not rate highly a 2nd year QB who looked pretty poor in his sophomore year, had 11/10 TD/INT and was frankly outplayed at times by Colt McCoy. That is a damning record. So yes I am saying most GMs will rate Z Wilson higher than that guy. Also when hot young QBs are discussed by observers, Jones is almost left out of the conversation while Kyler, Herbert, Burrow, Tua, Lawrence etc etc are the focal point.
But you project and assume oftentimes in your comments as well. The difference between you and I is you won't admit it. You have all kinds of excuses you accept in your defense of Jones. You say he is saddled by his supporting cast. But you don't know that. You say his WRs don't get enough separation, and to make the point you use a dodgy stat, but you don't know if this is true. His stats say Jones sucks. Period. But you have an argument that contends there are mitigating circumstances. Yea maybe you are right, but until Jones plays well, you don't know this for a fact. You are projecting. For you the idea that Jones will get better is an article of faith.
And by the way I am not saying Jones can never get better, or never be good enough to win us Super Bowls. I am just saying that he has not been good (an objective fact) and that game theory and probabilities do suggest he will never be good enough, and therefore we should consider all options which include evaluating Trey Lance if he should fall to us. I am using logic. You are wrapped up in faith.
@BenjaminSolak
From @nfldraftscout
’s notebook: there is a team that ranks Zach Wilson above Trevor Lawrence
In this case though, I'm calling BS. Not that it matters since I'm sure the Jags are taking Lawrence and we'll never know if any team really had Wilson higher. This sounds like teams in the 2-6 range leaking it so they can claim afterwards they got their top rated QB!
Pumps up the value of #2, etc.
I definitely think there are those out there that might have an individual grade out in Wilson's favor but I highly doubt that would be the consensus of the entire scouting dept + GM.
Wilson is very good. I was really impressed by him and have had him ahead of Fields and Lance for a while. But I don't know about better than Lawrence.
As for Wilson, I'm just in awe of his arm and his ability to make every throw imaginable. I look at him and see a lot Aaron Rodgers skills.
(Sounds like a plot from West Side Story)
Wilson is very good. I was really impressed by him and have had him ahead of Fields and Lance for a while. But I don't know about better than Lawrence.
Was thinking the same thing, how can 1 QB look like Mahomes and Murray, they are very different to me.
a) it's smoke put out to entice other teams to possibly consider a trade up.
if teams think a player (especially a QB) will not be there in their draft spot, QB is the most common target in a trade up or
b) Wilson is actually potentially actually being thought of as a better QB by scouts and not smoke to entice trade ups.
I don't watch a ton of college football, and have no opinion on draft rankings so I was legitimately curious.
I'm sure people who don't know will still respond flippantly like they do.
But even the 2018 draft when it was mostly Rosen and Darnold at the top in late December and then the combine seemed to bump up Mayfield and Allen, there is no combine this year so often what people think after the college season vs in April is different.
I'm not sure which is the case here: smoke or Wilson legit threat to Lawrence.
I don't get the snarky replies.
It makes sense for teams to have them ranked over Peyton and Luck respectively.
What that has to do with teams having Wilson over Lawrence I don't get. If JAX does they'll likely take Lawrence if they don't then Wilson will be available at 2.
But in terms of arm talent and making plays off script, I would say Wilson is better than Lawrence. Lawrence is the better athlete, so that makes him a better dual threat prospect. But Wilson can move, too, and is not unwilling to tuck it and run.
If the two situations are similar you, Mike in NJ are saying Wilson will be a bust.
Or at a minimum to make the comparison of Leaf and Manning is similar with Wilson and Lawrence you are saying Lawrence is by far the better QB and will have a vastly better NFL career than Wilson.
If you're saying the case is neither then what is the relevance? Just saying different teams rank QB's differently?
But in terms of arm talent and making plays off script, I would say Wilson is better than Lawrence. Lawrence is the better athlete, so that makes him a better dual threat prospect. But Wilson can move, too, and is not unwilling to tuck it and run.
I've seen Lawrence, I don't want much college ball, but I do watch the big games so I've seen him a few times.
I like him, I haven't seen Wilson, so not sure why people bring up Leaf when responding unless they're saying Wilson has high bust potential.
Is his arm better than Lawrence's? Maybe, but they're both very good throwers. And I don't agree that Lawrence can't throw off-platform. Maybe he doesn't do it as often as Zach, but he is very capable.
Passing on Lawrence to take Wilson is how GM's get fired.
If you’re Jacksonville you pick Lawrence, don’t overthink it.
Yep the same bullshit happened with Peyton.. I doubt anyone ever outside of Leaf's family thought he should be picked b4 Peyton..
Lawrence is the #1, but he has not looked as good in the past two years as his 1st. Perhaps COVID put a beating on him this year, but I thought this was his worst of his 3 at Clemson.
If I was picking, Lawrence would be the guy and Wilson would be a distant 2nd. FWIW
Lawrence is the #1, but he has not looked as good in the past two years as his 1st. Perhaps COVID put a beating on him this year, but I thought this was his worst of his 3 at Clemson.
If I was picking, Lawrence would be the guy and Wilson would be a distant 2nd. FWIW
I remember reading that the Colts only made their decision on Peyton over Leaf after each of their Pro Days. During their respective workouts, Peyton's arm strength was better than advertised and Leaf's was worse. Once they realized that Peyton's arm was arguably stronger than Leaf's, it became an easy decision for them.
FWIW, Lawrence apparently had a really good pre-draft workout and confirmed that he had elite arm talent. So I think Wilson would really have to do something spectacular in pre-draft workouts to catch up to Lawrence.
1. He is very tall and lanky. NFL speed is vastly different than college. These tall running QB's are very prone to injury.
2. Competition. The ACC has been way down during his time. Clemson is way above talent wise. This is true of many QB's coming out. Still I think he has been shaky in a few of the playoff games.
Urban will at least set him up to succeed. He will build a strong OL and have a running game. You never know how well these guys will translate imo.
That's, uh, somewhat telling.
Between 2 and 10 matters for the Giants obviously and the more teams who take QB's the better (as long as the Giants don't plan to take one).
So it matters, but indirectly.
Quote:
As long as Jacksonville thinks Lawrence is #1, who cares?
Between 2 and 10 matters for the Giants obviously and the more teams who take QB's the better (as long as the Giants don't plan to take one).
So it matters, but indirectly.
As to why it matters...every single QB taken ahead of us provides the Giants more options at #11, assuming of course the Giants aren't interested in a QB.
More options is, you know...better than less.
The Jaguars would lose what little faith fans have left to support them as a NFL franchise if they didn't draft Lawrence.
Better to trade down and pick a QB or make a Chargers-Giants trade.
What this really means is that the Jet take Wilson with #2, unless they are blown away by some draft pick trade offer, e.g. Houston offers them Watson for their #2 pick (with which they then take Wilson). That or something like it could happen.
I'd deal Jonea for Wilson right now, and so would most NFL GMs, in spite of what Mel Kiper has to say.
I'd deal Jonea for Wilson right now, and so would most NFL GMs, in spite of what Mel Kiper has to say.
This is the type of comment made so frequently that means absolutely fucking nothing.
You don't know what most NFL GM's would do. Fuck - you don't even know how GM's feel about Wilson or Jones.
Quote:
Is a tremendous prospect and it would not surprise me one bit if he had a better pro career than TL.
I'd deal Jonea for Wilson right now, and so would most NFL GMs, in spite of what Mel Kiper has to say.
This is the type of comment made so frequently that means absolutely fucking nothing.
You don't know what most NFL GM's would do. Fuck - you don't even know how GM's feel about Wilson or Jones.
We are all saying things here, on this board, that we project, or assume, or assert based on what we know about the NFL, human nature and common sense. yes I do not know personally NFL GMs and I am assuming they do not rate highly a 2nd year QB who looked pretty poor in his sophomore year, had 11/10 TD/INT and was frankly outplayed at times by Colt McCoy. That is a damning record. So yes I am saying most GMs will rate Z Wilson higher than that guy. Also when hot young QBs are discussed by observers, Jones is almost left out of the conversation while Kyler, Herbert, Burrow, Tua, Lawrence etc etc are the focal point.
But you project and assume oftentimes in your comments as well. The difference between you and I is you won't admit it. You have all kinds of excuses you accept in your defense of Jones. You say he is saddled by his supporting cast. But you don't know that. You say his WRs don't get enough separation, and to make the point you use a dodgy stat, but you don't know if this is true. His stats say Jones sucks. Period. But you have an argument that contends there are mitigating circumstances. Yea maybe you are right, but until Jones plays well, you don't know this for a fact. You are projecting. For you the idea that Jones will get better is an article of faith.
And by the way I am not saying Jones can never get better, or never be good enough to win us Super Bowls. I am just saying that he has not been good (an objective fact) and that game theory and probabilities do suggest he will never be good enough, and therefore we should consider all options which include evaluating Trey Lance if he should fall to us. I am using logic. You are wrapped up in faith.