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Raanan interview on Talkin Giants with Skinner and Penik

Vin_Cuccs : 2/18/2021 11:00 pm
First of all, if you aren't listening to the Talkin' Giants podcast with Bobby Skinner and Justin Penik, you have to be. They really do a great job. 

They had Jordan Raanan on the show earlier this week, and he had some really interesting insight on the team. I know some don't love Raanan, but I really like his input and opinions. I think he has a good pulse of the team, and he creates a ton of really interesting content. Probably my favorite writer that covers the team.

The first half of the interview had some really interesting information, whereas the second half kind of focused on Raanan's experiences with the team and how to get into the broadcasting/media industry.

Here are some of the highlights regarding the team:

-Raanan knows for a fact there was tension at times between Garrett and Judge due to the ineffectiveness of the offense. Judge holds both his players and coaches to a very high standard. Garrett is no different. The offense just did not perform, and the Barkley injury and the inconsistency of Jones aren't excuses.

-Judge wanted to make some changes to the offense this offseason. The Freddie Kitchens title change essentially puts him as a second offensive coordinator and he will certainly be part of the game planning process.

-Similarly, Jeremy Pruitt was hired as a senior defensive assistant, but he will probably serve as a second defensive coordinator. 

-These hires/promotions aren't knocks to Garrett or Graham, but Judge wants a truly collaborative approach.

-Kitchens and Schulpinski will also be more involved in game planning and the run game. Even new offensive line coach Rob Sale will have input.

-The offense has to be more successful this year, and if they aren't there will be changes. From the 19th ranked offense to the 31st ranked offense is clearly not ideal.

-Pruitt will have a bigger role, but his focus will likely be OLB. Judge thinks very highly of Jeremy Pruitt. He will also likely work with DB's due to his experience with that position group. He will have a big role in game planning.

-The coaching staff as a whole is impressive. Tyke Tolbert, Jerry Schulpinski, Jerome Henderson, Sale, and Pruitt, are all kind of overqualified for their positions, but took jobs here because they have larger roles besides just coaching position groups. They are involved on a bigger scale...probably including game planning. The coaching duties will be collaborative. This was mentioned several times.

-With all this in mind, Garrett still has a big role, but others will be more involved this season. Kitchens, in his one game as offensive coordinator, was much more aggressive, and we will likely see that more often this season.

-Judge gives input on offense, but Garrett is in the role of the offensive expert. Judge is involved, but Judge is the head coach and Garrett is the offensive coordinator for a reason.

-The situation with Judge coaching the offensive line last season was a little over embellished. Again, he gave input, but he wasn't doing everyday coaching with the line and didn't spend all his time with that position group.

-His intent was never to replace Marc Columbo, but had to with everything that occurred. The blocking scheme was just not what Judge wanted.

-DeGuglielmo was going to be brought in regardless to stabilize that position group. They switched technique in the middle of the season when Columbo which clearly hurt continuity, but play gradually improved throughout the season.

-The offense was specifically designed for Barkley, so they moved away from an outside zone approach.

-Dave Gettleman survived because the player acquisition process with Judge worked well last season.

-The coaching staff has way more input on personnel than ever before. Coaches have input, but with Judge and his staff, it is more than just suggestions. Opinions are taken more seriously.

-DeAndre Baker is a good example of the change. He was drafted without any input from any other members of the defensive staff. That scenario would never happen with the current structure.

-The Golden Tate and Nate Solder flashy signings didn't work. So they built the roster for quality and quantity...not to be too top heavy. Jadaveon Clowney wasn't seriously considered because those are the types of high priced risky players they want to avoid moving forward. The Logan Ryan approach is closer to what they want to do: smarter signings with way less risk involved.

-The roster building process in 2020 worked, so they want to try it again. With that in mind, this is likely Gettleman's last chance. He cannot have another losing record. Judge may have bought him time, but 8-8 at minimum will likely be needed for him to stay.

-This offseason will likely be a similar approach to roster building as last year. Don't expect the big, flashy signings. Most free agents get to free agency because they have questions. Quantity and quality over star power.

-The Giants are in very good shape with the salary cap. Too many people think they are strapped, but that is not the case. They have very few players signed long term or for big money. The $8 million number isn't really accurate at all. They can and will move money easily.

-As an example, the Giants top contracts are around $10 million a year. As a comparison, top QB's are making upwards of $40 million a year. They have plenty of space.  

-The Giants will be active due to the lower salary cap. This could work to their advantage. Some teams are legitimately strapped with salary cap space and won't be able to afford to sign any players, or retain their own players.

-If the team wants to, they can re-sign both Dalvin Tomlinson and Leonard Williams. The biggest factor is if the deals make sense for the team now and long term. 

-Williams has bargaining power. They paid him $16 million off of 1/2 a sack season. Now with over 11 1/2 sacks, what is he worth? His pressures were similar, so they will have to see how negotiations go.

There were a lot of other interesting nuggets from Raanan's time covering the team. It is definitely worth a listen!
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I like Jordan and Dan Duggan  
aimrocky : 2/19/2021 9:31 am : link
both are excellent beat reporters.
RE: For starters, thanking Vin for the write up  
section125 : 2/19/2021 9:38 am : link
In comment 15157015 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
Very good and I'm suggesting all that haven't listened go to Apple Podcasts or YouTube and do so. Jordan "humanized" himself more than we're used to which is good to see because he's a good reporter, he can just be brash at times.


I had a couple takes from this and some of Vin's synopsis covers it but I very much feel like there are 2 specific things being set up to take place:

- Garrett moving on after the season, signaled by the Kitchens promotion and other staff members gaining input.

- A structure coming into play in which if Gettlemen were to not be retained, we more than likely would name Abrams GM, he would run scouting and handle contracts but the coaching staff would essentially be picking the players. The comments on the coaching staff having a lot of input into player selection led me to believe this.


Speculation on my part, call me an idiot if you want, but I believe the most obvious explanation is usually the right one.


To your points:

I think that what Judge is doing is insulting himself for when both Garrett and Graham move on. He will have people in place to step up immediately and he will know who that person is by how they do in this collaborative approach.

DG leaving:
I think whomever the new GM would be would have to be amenable to the current set up - a larger coaching staff input vs one voice through the GM. That would also lead to a GM that is better scout than traditional GM with "total" authority.
This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
bw in dc : 2/19/2021 9:40 am : link
is fascinating.

I don't mind Garrett as the OC - have even gone to bat for him around here - but if he's really not Judge's hire (which I don't believe he is for one second; it was Mara's hire) and there is tension between the two, then Garrett needs to be let go so Judge can hire his guy. Immediately. Because this is not going to end well.

Just move to Kitchens now and see if he can get anything out of Jones. Because that's where most of the issue is on offense right now...

good stuff  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 9:42 am : link
I agree on the cap, Abrams has done a good job as of late
Grizz: Trying to win with Eli (or Elli as you call him)  
WillieYoung : 2/19/2021 9:43 am : link
wasn't wrong in just hindsight. It was wrong in foresight, side sight and second sight. It was a triumph of hope over expectation and reason.
interesting they didn't discuss the draft  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 9:50 am : link
Jordan usually has a few decent tidbits
RE: This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
section125 : 2/19/2021 9:52 am : link
In comment 15157030 bw in dc said:
Quote:
is fascinating.

I don't mind Garrett as the OC - have even gone to bat for him around here - but if he's really not Judge's hire (which I don't believe he is for one second; it was Mara's hire) and there is tension between the two, then Garrett needs to be let go so Judge can hire his guy. Immediately. Because this is not going to end well.

Just move to Kitchens now and see if he can get anything out of Jones. Because that's where most of the issue is on offense right now...


I get the feeling from what Raanan said that the tension is because the offense did not perform as expected by Judge(and us). More likely that Judge's personality and drive causes him to be hyper-critical even though he knows that the personnel situation was bad. Raanan basically said, yes there was "tension" but it was not a big deal. Maybe more exasperation (my paraphrase).

I still don't get the Mara's OC POV with Garrett. Not dismissing it out of hand, but Garrett ran a fine offense in Dallas and he was the most obvious person available at the time. But seeing as how Judge was so deeply involved in the draft and personnel decisions(what is usually the GMS domain), it is hard to believe he took Garrett at Mara's insistence. I think if Judge wanted Garrett out, he would be out.
i'm still decently high on Garrett  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 10:09 am : link
when the offense was rolling, it was very unpredictable and sustainable for long drives, something we haven't had in awhile. An upgrade on the OL and a few more weapons *should* make it better.

The red zone play calling was the worst thing about Garrett IMO. The rest of it was fine.
Excellent  
Andrew in Austin : 2/19/2021 10:12 am : link
Thanks Vin - really appreciate the summary!

Section - Since the Giants went so "out of the box" in hiring Judge, and having screwed up so many coaching choices before him, I believe Garrett was brought in as insurance in case Judge didn't work out, so they could move on quickly. Garrett has connection with the Giants, so they probably felt comfortable w/ the safety blanket. He also has had some great run-first offenses and with Saquon it likely seemed like a match made in heaven.

With Judge as the man, it will be interesting to see how the dynamic shifts and how long Garrett stays. I'm still hoping we can see at least a mediocre offense in 2021-22.
Nice job Vin...excellent summary!  
Jimmy Googs : 2/19/2021 10:24 am : link
Lots of good bits in there.

The comments on Dave Gettleman continue to leak out what a chucklehead this guy has been and that the franchise really needed somebody with a completely different mindset and process. The remark about Deandre Baker and not gaining more input is just ridiculous and not because of his transgressions in Miami last summer.

But mostly that, as several of the more astute posters on BBI have noted, Joe Judge's influence into the deals made (and not made) this past offseason, and improving the roster building process most definitely bought Gettleman another lifeline.

Hopefully Judge just continues to become more and more involved and DG finds his way to a beach somewhere very soon, and we as fans get the best of both of these career paths...

RE: That  
Section331 : 2/19/2021 10:35 am : link
In comment 15156897 broadbandz said:
Quote:
Baker pick is brought up multiple times a day when it was essentially a shot DG took in the 2nd rnd. Every draft expert will tell you after about 15 picks you are really drafting 2nd guys unless that draft is just loaded and that year it wasnt. Missing on 2nd rounder hurts but it happens to every team all the time. The chiefs have had some seriously bad misses in the last 10 yrs. But since they win no one brings those up. What kills a team is what Reese did. Missing on first rounders. Over and over. After about 5 yrs of that your team is dead in the water. Which is what DG took over. It never was going to be a fast rebuild.


I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous comment. I would have had little issue with DG taking Baker if Baker had fallen to him in rd 2, but that is not what happened. DG threw away 2 draft picks to move up, and for a bad team that is inexcusable. You wait, and if another team takes him, move on to the next guy on your board. Sean Murphy-Bunting would look really good in Giant blue.
.  
Bill2 : 2/19/2021 10:39 am : link
Vin - Thank you. Great job as usual.

chick - For me, the issues on offense include a deeper doubt about the OL than being pleased its better than its been.

The OL has been so so bad I'm afraid we fall in love with flashes of NFL play.

To me, we don't have the guard play to assert a running game when necessary (against a good front 7) and we don't have a consistent pocket to step into that matches the wr,te routes being run.

To me, Hernandez is too limited, Zeitler not close to advertised and Lemieux a 5th round development project with all the limits and risks of a 5th round development pick.
For me the Covid line of reasoning is a sidebar sidecar to the core issue: I'm starting to think these guys need to be upgraded more and faster than our fan base thinks.

Peart may develop...he may not. I don't see actual RT dominant player, I see back up swing tackle.

That's just me...its where my eyes took me this past season.

RE: RE: This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
bw in dc : 2/19/2021 10:54 am : link
In comment 15157041 section125 said:
Quote:

I still don't get the Mara's OC POV with Garrett. Not dismissing it out of hand, but Garrett ran a fine offense in Dallas and he was the most obvious person available at the time. But seeing as how Judge was so deeply involved in the draft and personnel decisions(what is usually the GMS domain), it is hard to believe he took Garrett at Mara's insistence. I think if Judge wanted Garrett out, he would be out.


I've said it many, many times - Garrett can put together an offense. I don't buy what some around here are selling when they said Garrett's offense is outdated, not good for Jones, etc. Well, it was good enough for Romo, an undrafted QB, and Prescott, a 4th round pick. So I would expect a QB molded by Cutcliffe and picked 6th, can adapt.

I could pretty easily see Mara telling Judge that he (Mara) really like Garrett, that's he's available, and he'd be a good support system for Judge because Garret has been a HC and knows the NFCE. So there is a way to connect the dots. Since Judge has never been the head coach of a high school team or his kid's flag football team, what was Judge going to say? No? I'd rather take the position at Miss State if I want someone else?
Grizz  
Samiam : 2/19/2021 10:59 am : link
Can you tell me what you’re smoking and where to buy it? I hope you are right but I can’t imagine it’s true. The Giants OL is among the worst in the league as presently constituted. They need to sign a good free agent AND draft someone in the premium rounds.

I think the bad guy with the Giants is John Mara although I’m guessing that Judge was his choice and Gettleman bought into it to survive. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that Gettleman, already on thin ice, would have gone with a rookie coach. Nobody, especially an old geezer, who selected a coach like a Shurmur 2 years ago switches directions that completely and take someone who never had a job higher than special teams coach. Also, I think Gettleman got the GM because he told Mara what he wanted to hear which is that Eli still had it and the team wa a playoff team with fine tuning. Mara is too active here.

In terms of Gettleman and Judge and Garrett, I could see Mara giving Judge the authority over the draft meaning Gettleman will draft who Judge wanted. But, in terms of coaches, Mara would not give Judge total authority over all the assistants. I don’t believe fair a second that Judge would have hired Garrett on his own and obviously Colombo was not Judge’s choice either. Mara has to back the f away.
RE: RE: RE: This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
Jimmy Googs : 2/19/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15157106 bw in dc said:
Quote:


I could pretty easily see Mara telling Judge that he (Mara) really like Garrett, that's he's available, and he'd be a good support system for Judge because Garret has been a HC and knows the NFCE. So there is a way to connect the dots. Since Judge has never been the head coach of a high school team or his kid's flag football team, what was Judge going to say? No? I'd rather take the position at Miss State if I want someone else?


Agree the dots are close to that type of connection.

It was widely reported that the Giant brass was less than enthused with Shurmur's assistant coaches. And while Mara clearly saw a lot of positives in his interview(s) with Judge he also wanted some experience on the overall coaching staff to support a young Judge. The (ahem) recommendation to give Garrett a hard look was given.

RE: Vin, as much as you did an amazingly thorough  
26.2 : 2/19/2021 11:04 am : link
In comment 15156901 BelieveJJ said:
Quote:
attenuated transcript of the Raanan interview on Talkin Giants, you left out one of its most fascinating observations by Jordan, about how Saquon Barkley is much more similar to OBJ than most people realize... About how Saquon is much more into the Glitz and Glam of LA than most acknowledge...


I don't like reading that.
RE: .  
chick310 : 2/19/2021 11:18 am : link
In comment 15157081 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Vin - Thank you. Great job as usual.

chick - For me, the issues on offense include a deeper doubt about the OL than being pleased its better than its been.

The OL has been so so bad I'm afraid we fall in love with flashes of NFL play.

To me, we don't have the guard play to assert a running game when necessary (against a good front 7) and we don't have a consistent pocket to step into that matches the wr,te routes being run.

To me, Hernandez is too limited, Zeitler not close to advertised and Lemieux a 5th round development project with all the limits and risks of a 5th round development pick.
For me the Covid line of reasoning is a sidebar sidecar to the core issue: I'm starting to think these guys need to be upgraded more and faster than our fan base thinks.

Peart may develop...he may not. I don't see actual RT dominant player, I see back up swing tackle.

That's just me...its where my eyes took me this past season.


Well, I am probably much more aligned to these views about the OL although think stabilizing Right Tackle would do a world of good. Wished we had seen more snaps for Peart as a rookie, but it would not bother me by bringing in another Offensive Tackle in this draft.

Nevertheless, why the wholly different views shared here versus under your Grizz post?
RE: This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/19/2021 11:19 am : link
In comment 15157030 bw in dc said:
Quote:
is fascinating.

I don't mind Garrett as the OC - have even gone to bat for him around here - but if he's really not Judge's hire (which I don't believe he is for one second; it was Mara's hire) and there is tension between the two, then Garrett needs to be let go so Judge can hire his guy. Immediately. Because this is not going to end well.

Just move to Kitchens now and see if he can get anything out of Jones. Because that's where most of the issue is on offense right now...


My initial reaction to much of this is that there seems to be a lot of cooks in the kitchen right now. Normally, that doesn't work out well.
RE: A lot of cooks in the kitchen with respect to game planning  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/19/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15156906 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
on both offense and defense. That was my first impression reading this thread.
I have always felt this coaching staff has more input than previous staffs with respect to personnel decisions. Especially Judge and Graham.
Since the beginning of the offseason I have always felt they somehow get it done and re-sign LW and DT. DT is highly regarded by the Giant organization.
Go Giants!!!


Beat me to the punch.
Judging Garrett by the results in Dallas leaves out a lot of context  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/19/2021 11:21 am : link
How many offensive coordinators would look bad if they had the best offensive line in the league, a top 5 RB, a hall of fame TE, and an all pro QB?

When he has great talent he puts out good units. A lot of coaches fill that role. See Steve Spagnuolo.

Knowing how to maximize results with less than ideal roster is why Graham is a really good coordinator for this team.
RE: RE: Vin, as much as you did an amazingly thorough  
csb : 2/19/2021 11:35 am : link
In comment 15157125 26.2 said:
Quote:
In comment 15156901 BelieveJJ said:


Quote:


attenuated transcript of the Raanan interview on Talkin Giants, you left out one of its most fascinating observations by Jordan, about how Saquon Barkley is much more similar to OBJ than most people realize... About how Saquon is much more into the Glitz and Glam of LA than most acknowledge...



I don't like reading that.


Maybe as a personality off the field, however nothing on the field would suggest that he's similar to OBJ. He doesn't throw temper tantrums, he doesn't run off the field before the half because he didn't get the ball, he's not controversial in the media. You can love the fame as much as anyone and still be a great teammate (look at Tom Brady).
Wow Vin  
FranknWeezer : 2/19/2021 11:40 am : link
Awesome summary. Thank you so much for posting!
having a lot of cooks in the kitchen  
UConn4523 : 2/19/2021 11:40 am : link
can certainly come with issues, but it also allows the opportunity for the best ones to rise organically and earnestly. This was never a 1-2 year quick fix - instead these first couple years are going to shape what the Giants will look like in the years to come, especially since Judge came here as a rookie HC and without full authority (i believe he will slowly, maybe even rapidly get close to fill control).
saying things like  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 11:47 am : link
"this is not going to end well" about Garrett...i don't get that. Why? Because Judge wants to hold everyone accountable and was pissed that the offense wasn't performing well?
...  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 11:49 am : link
Barkley is absolutely nothing like Odell Beckham. Their personalities could not be more different. I'm calling bullshit on that.
This is undoubtedly Garrett's last year here. He will either  
Jimmy Googs : 2/19/2021 11:55 am : link
fail to get the Offense moving enough and be fired, or he will succeed and get another Head Coaching gig.

If he fails so much that he is replaced before the season ends, then its possible the whole house of cards with Daniel Jones and Dave Gettleman fall as well.
RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/19/2021 11:58 am : link
In comment 15157178 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Barkley is absolutely nothing like Odell Beckham. Their personalities could not be more different. I'm calling bullshit on that.


How would any of us know? We haven't met him. Just because he's not outwardly showy doesn't mean much.
He also hasn't been on the field enough to establish himself with that same amount of fame. Beckham became world famous pretty early on.
RE: This is undoubtedly Garrett's last year here. He will either  
Dnew15 : 2/19/2021 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15157185 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
fail to get the Offense moving enough and be fired, or he will succeed and get another Head Coaching gig.

If he fails so much that he is replaced before the season ends, then its possible the whole house of cards with Daniel Jones and Dave Gettleman fall as well.


I think the same is true of Graham - if the Giants are successful both Garrett and Graham will be prime candidates for HC jobs. If they leave, the team doesn't miss a beat with these two guys in the wings..in theory - it's a good idea.
RE: RE: This is undoubtedly Garrett's last year here. He will either  
Mike in NY : 2/19/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15157195 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
In comment 15157185 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


fail to get the Offense moving enough and be fired, or he will succeed and get another Head Coaching gig.

If he fails so much that he is replaced before the season ends, then its possible the whole house of cards with Daniel Jones and Dave Gettleman fall as well.



I think the same is true of Graham - if the Giants are successful both Garrett and Graham will be prime candidates for HC jobs. If they leave, the team doesn't miss a beat with these two guys in the wings..in theory - it's a good idea.


I am not so sure about Graham. Unless he is just looking for the perfect job opportunity his personality strikes me more as someone who prefers being a coordinator and working behind the scenes than being the head guy.
I hope you're right :)  
Dnew15 : 2/19/2021 12:14 pm : link
Graham looked like he was getting some offers to interview for HC jobs already - that's why the Giants paid him more money to stay....

A couple opinions ...  
DonQuixote : 2/19/2021 12:20 pm : link
Contrary to a previous poster, I did not think Ranaan came off well. I thought that at first, but he irked me more and more until I was just hanging on because the info seemed interesting. He basically admitted to being an asshole. This was more between the lines for me, so I can see how others took away something very different. Also, despite his being irksome, it was still informative so credit where credit is due. Plus, he doesn't need to give that interview.

Skinner interviewed him well. I have enjoyed their Youtube videos from time to time; he and Justin bring different things and I like the combination.

The OPs summary was outstanding. I listened to the entire thing before this was posted, and still learned from the post. Thanks Vin
RE: RE: This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
bw in dc : 2/19/2021 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15157143 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15157030 bw in dc said:


Quote:


is fascinating.

I don't mind Garrett as the OC - have even gone to bat for him around here - but if he's really not Judge's hire (which I don't believe he is for one second; it was Mara's hire) and there is tension between the two, then Garrett needs to be let go so Judge can hire his guy. Immediately. Because this is not going to end well.

Just move to Kitchens now and see if he can get anything out of Jones. Because that's where most of the issue is on offense right now...




My initial reaction to much of this is that there seems to be a lot of cooks in the kitchen right now. Normally, that doesn't work out well.


I hear you. It read like a very complicated org chart.



RE: ...  
Section331 : 2/19/2021 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15157178 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Barkley is absolutely nothing like Odell Beckham. Their personalities could not be more different. I'm calling bullshit on that.


You may be right, but I'm guessing Jordan Raanan has interacted more with SB than you have. I'm not sure he means SB has the same temperament as Odell, but that he has the same visions of stardom Odell had (has). That's not necessarily a bad thing, he doesn't become a star without putting up really good numbers. Just as long as it doesn't morph into selfishness, like Odell's sometimes did.
not surprised  
mittenedman : 2/19/2021 1:25 pm : link
reading the Barkley comments. hes not OBJ but he has some of the same qualities. hes buult like a greek God but plays like a scatback. Its time to put it all together, if he can.
RE: ...  
Jim in Tampa : 2/19/2021 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15157178 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Barkley is absolutely nothing like Odell Beckham. Their personalities could not be more different. I'm calling bullshit on that.

It certainly seems that anything you don't like to hear is "BS".
More and more hints that our prime candidate for the vet WR  
Judge_and_Jury : 2/19/2021 2:03 pm : link
may not be one of Godwin or A-Rob. But Golladay or Corey Davis on less of a crazy big deal like the other two may get.

Hope this is not the case because if we have an opportunity for A-rob especially I think we need to take it. He is one of the most Qb friendly WRs in the entire NFL and could catapault DJs career to the next level like Hopkins/Diggs did for two other young QBs.
re: too many cooks in the kitchen  
bc4life : 2/19/2021 2:25 pm : link
depends - if you have a plan and everyone understands how that input is supposed to happen, it can work. not necessarily easy though.
scratching my head re: DeAndre Baker  
bc4life : 2/19/2021 2:26 pm : link
How do you draft a player without talking to DC?
I'd say  
ghost718 : 2/19/2021 2:47 pm : link
When it comes to the media,Barkley shields himself better.Beckham doesn't put forth that much effort.If he says something looney,that just means more attention.

But outside of that,they are similar
RE: scratching my head re: DeAndre Baker  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/19/2021 2:47 pm : link
In comment 15157314 bc4life said:
Quote:
How do you draft a player without talking to DC?


Theory? Just an old school mindset.

It wasn't uncommon for GMs and scouting to pick the players and coaches to just work with what they were handed. Bill Parcells left the Giants in part because of this, right? He wanted to "pick the groceries".
RE: scratching my head re: DeAndre Baker  
GManinDC : 2/19/2021 3:12 pm : link
In comment 15157314 bc4life said:
Quote:
How do you draft a player without talking to DC?


Yeah, that needs to be HIGHLIGHTED!!. Who does that?. especially when you dumped a bunch of defensive players you already had on the team???
RE: RE: This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
Eman11 : 2/19/2021 4:33 pm : link
In comment 15157041 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15157030 bw in dc said:


Quote:


is fascinating.

I don't mind Garrett as the OC - have even gone to bat for him around here - but if he's really not Judge's hire (which I don't believe he is for one second; it was Mara's hire) and there is tension between the two, then Garrett needs to be let go so Judge can hire his guy. Immediately. Because this is not going to end well.

Just move to Kitchens now and see if he can get anything out of Jones. Because that's where most of the issue is on offense right now...




I get the feeling from what Raanan said that the tension is because the offense did not perform as expected by Judge(and us). More likely that Judge's personality and drive causes him to be hyper-critical even though he knows that the personnel situation was bad. Raanan basically said, yes there was "tension" but it was not a big deal. Maybe more exasperation (my paraphrase).

I still don't get the Mara's OC POV with Garrett. Not dismissing it out of hand, but Garrett ran a fine offense in Dallas and he was the most obvious person available at the time. But seeing as how Judge was so deeply involved in the draft and personnel decisions(what is usually the GMS domain), it is hard to believe he took Garrett at Mara's insistence. I think if Judge wanted Garrett out, he would be out.


I think Mara and most likely Judge too for that matter think JG is the best guy to develop Jones into the franchise QB they drafted him to be.

They know what he did with Romo and Dak so no doubt they’re willing to give him more time with DJ given the COVID 2020 season wasn’t ideal to work as closely as I’m sure he would’ve liked.
Garrett may want a WR in the first  
BigBlueCane : 2/19/2021 4:57 pm : link
I think Judge is more inclined to look at Parsons or Surtain.

RE: RE: This dynamic between Judge and Garrett...  
fireitup77 : 2/19/2021 5:31 pm : link
In comment 15157143 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15157030 bw in dc said:


Quote:


is fascinating.

I don't mind Garrett as the OC - have even gone to bat for him around here - but if he's really not Judge's hire (which I don't believe he is for one second; it was Mara's hire) and there is tension between the two, then Garrett needs to be let go so Judge can hire his guy. Immediately. Because this is not going to end well.

Just move to Kitchens now and see if he can get anything out of Jones. Because that's where most of the issue is on offense right now...




My initial reaction to much of this is that there seems to be a lot of cooks in the kitchen right now. Normally, that doesn't work out well.



Normally I would agree. But I like this for different reasons O vs D.

I don't think Graham's influence will be not diminished. I think on the D side they are preparing someone as the long time replacement for Graham.

On O I think they have created a situation where if Garrett doesn't get it done quickly he will be replaced early on.
RE: Too many cooks in the kitchen  
Chris684 : 2/19/2021 5:37 pm : link
I think what’s going on here is that with Garrett (underperformance/potential firing) and Graham (over performance/potential hiring), Judge knows he needs to groom coordinators and keep the pipeline strong with guys he trusts.

I think this is straight out of the BB philosophy in New England. Bill has been smart enough to realize that when you win in this league, people look to take from your coordinators/staff every year and you need to be able to fill in.

We’ve seen all too many times (Bill Sheridan) how elevating the wrong guys can derail otherwise very good teams. I think Judge wants to be prepared when his coordinators eventually leave him. If NYG is successful they inevitably will.
Re: Judge & Gettleman..  
Sean : 2/19/2021 6:33 pm : link
This is a point I’ve been making. Any personnel decisions made prior to Judge do not have relevance on how Judge/Gettleman will make personnel decisions on a go forward basis. 2020 looks to be a strong offseason, we’ll see how 2021 goes. Definitely encouraging that the coaching staff has stronger influence on personnel.
RE: Re: Judge & Gettleman..  
Go Terps : 2/19/2021 6:56 pm : link
In comment 15157458 Sean said:
Quote:
This is a point I’ve been making. Any personnel decisions made prior to Judge do not have relevance on how Judge/Gettleman will make personnel decisions on a go forward basis. 2020 looks to be a strong offseason, we’ll see how 2021 goes. Definitely encouraging that the coaching staff has stronger influence on personnel.


Fingers crossed on this. Garrett's continued presence makes me wonder, though.
Terps..  
Sean : 2/19/2021 7:12 pm : link
I don’t know what to make of Garrett. From all reports, Judge has been glued to the hip with Graham since the season ended. We also know Judge & Kitchens are close. Raanan also made a good point regarding the Cleveland game where Kitchens was OC - despite only scoring 6 points, the offense moved the ball down the field nicely. They played aggressive and went for it on 4th down, but the offense moved the ball with McCoy.

It does seem that Judge would would prefer to give Kitchens the OC now and go to war. So, I don’t know what it means for Garrett.
RE: RE: That  
AcidTest : 2/19/2021 9:12 pm : link
In comment 15157077 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15156897 broadbandz said:


Quote:


Baker pick is brought up multiple times a day when it was essentially a shot DG took in the 2nd rnd. Every draft expert will tell you after about 15 picks you are really drafting 2nd guys unless that draft is just loaded and that year it wasnt. Missing on 2nd rounder hurts but it happens to every team all the time. The chiefs have had some seriously bad misses in the last 10 yrs. But since they win no one brings those up. What kills a team is what Reese did. Missing on first rounders. Over and over. After about 5 yrs of that your team is dead in the water. Which is what DG took over. It never was going to be a fast rebuild.



I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous comment. I would have had little issue with DG taking Baker if Baker had fallen to him in rd 2, but that is not what happened. DG threw away 2 draft picks to move up, and for a bad team that is inexcusable. You wait, and if another team takes him, move on to the next guy on your board. Sean Murphy-Bunting would look really good in Giant blue.


^This.

Great work as usual Vin.
My biggest O-line worry ....  
Manny in CA : 2/19/2021 10:39 pm : link
Is what they've gone through and what they're facing - third O-line coach in two years.

Hal Hunter was garbage; Columbo wasn't a good it; Gug was a hired gun - that's all; now the new guy.

If you were working as a Giants O-lineman, wouldn't you wish the turnstile door in the coaches' office stop spinning ?
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