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NFT: Mets sign Walker

ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 7:29 am
Per Martino/SNY
We’ll see what the terms are  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 7:34 am : link
Was secretly hoping for Odorizzi in the 11th hour but Walker clearly fits the bill. We basically just needed a bridge to Syndergaard’s return in June.

I think we can all rest easy at least knowing the Mets clearly did everything they could to address the starting pitching this year. Stroman, Carrasco, and Walker on top of getting Thor back plus Yamamoto and a Luchessi for depth.

Good job.
.  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 7:40 am : link
Michael Mayer
@mikemayer22
Walker finished strong with the Blue Jays last year (1.37 ERA in 6 starts), but has thrown only 66 innings over the last three years.
Well depth is what was needed  
johnnyb : 2/19/2021 7:51 am : link
and Walker will provide that. But I was hoping they would add Odorizzi as well.

How about adding Bryant now? He would be a huge upgrade over JD Davis.
RE: Well depth is what was needed  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 8:04 am : link
In comment 15156928 johnnyb said:
Quote:
and Walker will provide that. But I was hoping they would add Odorizzi as well.

How about adding Bryant now? He would be a huge upgrade over JD Davis.


At this point Im kind of ok to just see how it shakes out. I think we've been checking on Bryant but the ask has been ridiculous. At one point, I think the Cubs asked for Alvarez?? Forget it.

McNeil can play 3B (his best position) and Villar and Giuiilorme are likely above average 2B options. Or McNeil can play 2B and we can see if Davis improves. We know he can rake at least.

Its not terrible. And 6 out of our 8 starting position players just made the top 100 list. Its ok to have a question at one spot IMO.
June roster:  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 8:14 am : link
1.) deGrom
2.) Syndergaard
3.) Carrasco
4.) Stroman
5.) Walker

Diaz, Lugo, May, Loup, Betances, Familia, Castro, FA

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) Lindor SS
3.) McNeil 2B
4.) Alonso 1B
5.) Conforto RF
6.) Davis 3B
7.) Dom LF
8.) McCann C

Villar, Pillar, Martinez, Guillorme, Nido

AAA. Yamamoto, Luchessi, Almora Jr, Kilome, Szapucki, D. Smith, etc
Peterson in AAA  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 8:16 am : link
also who I left out. Actually, if that happens we might get a year of service time back.
I’ll wait for nightingale to confirm  
bhill410 : 2/19/2021 8:19 am : link
Before I believe it.
Nice move  
KDavies : 2/19/2021 8:20 am : link
Only thing I’d take is an additional bullpen arm, but they could always have a guy or two who surprises on that end
RE: Nice move  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15156940 KDavies said:
Quote:
Only thing I’d take is an additional bullpen arm, but they could always have a guy or two who surprises on that end


There's actually a few guys without options on the 40. I believe Barnes and Kilome are two of them.

I could see them wanting to see how things shake out and maybe looking to add another reliever later into the season at this point.

Somebody like Viscaino was very good not that long ago. It should be an interesting camp.
Good signing  
Sammo85 : 2/19/2021 8:30 am : link
Back-end starter who can provide depth/Lugo insurance also in that kind of role if needed.

Can't complain.
RE: RE: Nice move  
Mike in NY : 2/19/2021 8:34 am : link
In comment 15156944 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 15156940 KDavies said:


Quote:


Only thing I’d take is an additional bullpen arm, but they could always have a guy or two who surprises on that end



There's actually a few guys without options on the 40. I believe Barnes and Kilome are two of them.

I could see them wanting to see how things shake out and maybe looking to add another reliever later into the season at this point.

Somebody like Viscaino was very good not that long ago. It should be an interesting camp.


Hunter or Montgomery also could flash in camp
Kilome  
KDavies : 2/19/2021 8:35 am : link
He has an option left, I believe. Fortunately. Because I’d hate to lose him for nothing, but he needs some more time in the minors
Link - ( New Window )
I'm not sure Walker  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 8:37 am : link
beats out Peterson, but until Syndergaard is back it could be a nice competition to see who sticks when he returns (or remain as the 6th man even - I guess even add Yamamoto and Lucchesi to the competition but I put Peterson ahead of both based on track record).

I also think until Lugo is back it's a nice opportunity for veterans like Drew Smith to cement their place on the team (if he's improved his command).

RE: RE: RE: Nice move  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 8:39 am : link
In comment 15156954 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15156944 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 15156940 KDavies said:


Quote:


Only thing I’d take is an additional bullpen arm, but they could always have a guy or two who surprises on that end



There's actually a few guys without options on the 40. I believe Barnes and Kilome are two of them.

I could see them wanting to see how things shake out and maybe looking to add another reliever later into the season at this point.

Somebody like Viscaino was very good not that long ago. It should be an interesting camp.



Hunter or Montgomery also could flash in camp


Yeah a bunch of intriguing names. Im even excited to see somebody like Gilliam.
Mets have a number of bullpen guys who could surprise  
KDavies : 2/19/2021 8:41 am : link
the aforementioned Hunter, Barnes, Montgomery, Smith, McWilliams, Megill. Familia or Betances could get straightened out. I still would like a more reliable 3rd reliever with Lugo out, but it may work itself out
RE: I'm not sure Walker  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 8:41 am : link
In comment 15156959 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
beats out Peterson, but until Syndergaard is back it could be a nice competition to see who sticks when he returns (or remain as the 6th man even - I guess even add Yamamoto and Lucchesi to the competition but I put Peterson ahead of both based on track record).

I also think until Lugo is back it's a nice opportunity for veterans like Drew Smith to cement their place on the team (if he's improved his command).


We'll see. I think Walker is gonna get close to 10 AAV this year. What would we do with Walker? Put him in the pen? Most likely, Peterson would head to AAA in that situation. He has options and also, like I said, he would recoup a year of service time if we sent him there for a bit. Most likely an injury makes it a non issue.
As much as a like the names and camp and am ready to go  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 8:42 am : link
Ill still take a Greene signing.
Walker I feel is the bigger upside of the two remaining  
bhill410 : 2/19/2021 8:50 am : link
Starters but his advanced metrics were a little concerning. If 1 or 2 years I’ll be pumped, more than that the danger factor comes in.
Glad to add him...  
Metnut : 2/19/2021 8:52 am : link
we have a really good team going into camp. If Noah and Lugo can come back and be close to themselves we’ll be in really good shape.
Anyone have a good write up/profile of Walker  
Metnut : 2/19/2021 9:08 am : link
they can link to? Not really a ton on him at fangraphs.
Interesting  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 9:14 am : link
Interview
Link - ( New Window )
RE: June roster:  
Earl the goat : 2/19/2021 9:16 am : link
In comment 15156934 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
1.) deGrom
2.) Syndergaard
3.) Carrasco
4.) Stroman
5.) Walker

Diaz, Lugo, May, Loup, Betances, Familia, Castro, FA

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) Lindor SS
3.) McNeil 2B
4.) Alonso 1B
5.) Conforto RF
6.) Davis 3B
7.) Dom LF
8.) McCann C

Villar, Pillar, Martinez, Guillorme, Nido

AAA. Yamamoto, Luchessi, Almora Jr, Kilome, Szapucki, D. Smith, etc



Z. For argument sake. Do the lineup with a DH
Bigger deal than I thought  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 9:22 am : link


Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Walker gets $10M in 2021, $7M in 2022. 2023 player option that starts at $6M with escalators can get to $8.5M or $3M buyout on the player option. #Mets All of this is pending a physical.
RE: Bigger deal than I thought  
Everyone Relax : 2/19/2021 9:24 am : link
In comment 15157006 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Walker gets $10M in 2021, $7M in 2022. 2023 player option that starts at $6M with escalators can get to $8.5M or $3M buyout on the player option. #Mets All of this is pending a physical.

Seems like an overpay, but there wasn't much left out there. Wasn't Walker once a top 10 prospect or am I thinking of someone else?
RE: RE: Bigger deal than I thought  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 9:27 am : link
In comment 15157008 Everyone Relax said:
Quote:
In comment 15157006 pjcas18 said:


Quote:




Joel Sherman
@Joelsherman1
·
1m
Walker gets $10M in 2021, $7M in 2022. 2023 player option that starts at $6M with escalators can get to $8.5M or $3M buyout on the player option. #Mets All of this is pending a physical.


Seems like an overpay, but there wasn't much left out there. Wasn't Walker once a top 10 prospect or am I thinking of someone else?


Yes, he was a top 10 prospect, and never lived up to those expectations, but he's still 28 years old so who knows, but I wouldn't expect much.
here's a good blurb from Keith Law's FA preview - had him 19th  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 9:28 am : link
Quote:
19. Taijuan Walker, RHP, age 28
Walker had a big comeback season in 2020, his first healthy campaign since 2017, taking the ball 11 times and posting peripheral stats in line with his pre-Tommy John surgery self, even though he’s down about 1.5 mph from those days. Walker works with four pitches, none of which is really an out pitch, although his curveball could still be that for him. Showing he could stay healthy and hold his stuff even in this short season was a positive step; now he needs to show that he can pitch with the above-average or better control he’ll need (and that he flashes) to pitch effectively with a bucket of grade-50 or -55 pitches. He’s a back-end starter now but has some upside potential to be a league-average guy if his control ticks up or he uses the curveball more often or he regains a little velocity with more time away from surgery. Because of his youth and athleticism, he’ll probably find a lot of interest from teams hoping to score a bargain on a two-year deal.


I think this a real solid upside move, sort of like the McCann deal. There is a wide range of outcomes for both players but at the $ they them for, if they play to the upper bound of their range there will be a lot of surplus value in the contracts. Right before his injury Walker posted a solid first season in the NL and was trending towards a middle of the rotation career. Then he had a lengthy recovery, not unlike Zack Wheeler.

I've made this comparison before and it is not exact, but buying Walker is a lot like buying Wheeler in 2017 after his first year back from injuries. There are obviously no guarantees things click for him like they did with Wheeler but if his performance at the end of last year is any indication it's a possibility. They have a lot of very similar peripherals over their careers even though Wheeler had higher velocity. Many forget that they were ready to cast Wheeler off just 18 months before he got his $100m contract.
The 2nd year is a benefit to the NYM not Wheeler  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 9:30 am : link
7m is below average for SP. If memory serves they gave more money to Vargas 3-4 years ago.

The most appealing aspect of Walker vs. the other SP out there in his price range was multi-year upside, so if they get a guy who is in fact ascending post surgery it's to their benefit to have him controlled for at least 1 extra season at an affordable rate.
sorry Walker not Wheeler  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 9:31 am : link
that comparison was still fresh in my brain.
surprised they haven't added one more bullpen arm  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 9:33 am : link
if Lugo doesn't come back for awhile, it doesn't look great
RE: RE: Bigger deal than I thought  
Dr. D : 2/19/2021 9:33 am : link
In comment 15157008 Everyone Relax said:
Quote:
In comment 15157006 pjcas18 said:


Quote:
Seems like an overpay, but there wasn't much left out there. Wasn't Walker once a top 10 prospect or am I thinking of someone else?

I'm not complaining about what might be an overpay. If he stays healthy, I wouldn't be shocked if he has a season that's not a huge difference from Bauer's (especially if the league figures out what sticky substance he's allegedly using); at a tiny fraction of the price.

Of course Walker won't get the same # of starts as Bauer, but I feel better about this signing than I would've paying Bauer 110 million for 3 yrs or whatever it was.
RE: RE: June roster:  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 9:44 am : link
In comment 15157000 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
In comment 15156934 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


1.) deGrom
2.) Syndergaard
3.) Carrasco
4.) Stroman
5.) Walker

Diaz, Lugo, May, Loup, Betances, Familia, Castro, FA

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) Lindor SS
3.) McNeil 2B
4.) Alonso 1B
5.) Conforto RF
6.) Davis 3B
7.) Dom LF
8.) McCann C

Villar, Pillar, Martinez, Guillorme, Nido

AAA. Yamamoto, Luchessi, Almora Jr, Kilome, Szapucki, D. Smith, etc




Z. For argument sake. Do the lineup with a DH


1.) Nimmo LF
2.) Lindor SS
3.) McNeil 2B
4.) Alonso DH
5.) Conforto RF
6.) Davis 3B
7.) Dom 1B
8.) McCann C
9.) Pillar/JBJ CF
We also need remember that the SP is aging  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 9:49 am : link
JDG turns 33 this year.
Carrasco is turns 34.
Stroman turns 30. (FA to be)
Thor turns 29. (FA to be coming off TJS)

Peterson is really the only young pitcher they have with a chance to be anything more than a depth guy for a while from the system. And it's not like he's 21, he turns 26 at the end of this season.

Walker at age 28 is a nice gamble on upside.
I'm putting Dom higher up in that order  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 9:57 am : link
he's a better hitter than Alonso
this is another cleverly structured contract - just $7.67m for LTT  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 9:59 am : link
Quote:
Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1
42s
For luxury tax purposes, Walker’s contract with the player option/buyout counts as 3 yrs, $23M or $7.67M annually. So the #Mets project to about $195M now. The first threshold is $210M.
RE: I'm putting Dom higher up in that order  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 10:13 am : link
In comment 15157046 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
he's a better hitter than Alonso


I can promise you that whatever lineup you draw out, I can make a case that a player is too low. That’s what happens when you have one of the best lineups in baseball.
..  
Named Later : 2/19/2021 10:23 am : link
Re : Thor's return to the rotation

Please, don't overuse this guy early in June. I want him ready for the playoffs this year.

Let's have some fun with baseball math. Feel free to correct any of my numbers, or offer your own estimates --

Thor's innings limit this year = 120 innings ??
Average innings per start this yr = 6 innings.
Probable starts from Thor this yr = 20 (hold 4 starts for postseason.

16 starts in the regular season, 5 days apart. That's 80 days, or roughly 3 months of schedule......July, August and September.

Please don't burn innings in June that could be used in October.
RE: ..  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 10:52 am : link
In comment 15157064 Named Later said:
Quote:
Re : Thor's return to the rotation

Please, don't overuse this guy early in June. I want him ready for the playoffs this year.

Let's have some fun with baseball math. Feel free to correct any of my numbers, or offer your own estimates --

Thor's innings limit this year = 120 innings ??
Average innings per start this yr = 6 innings.
Probable starts from Thor this yr = 20 (hold 4 starts for postseason.

16 starts in the regular season, 5 days apart. That's 80 days, or roughly 3 months of schedule......July, August and September.

Please don't burn innings in June that could be used in October.


what if they don't get to October?
RE: RE: ..  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 10:56 am : link
In comment 15157102 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15157064 Named Later said:


Quote:


Re : Thor's return to the rotation

Please, don't overuse this guy early in June. I want him ready for the playoffs this year.

Let's have some fun with baseball math. Feel free to correct any of my numbers, or offer your own estimates --

Thor's innings limit this year = 120 innings ??
Average innings per start this yr = 6 innings.
Probable starts from Thor this yr = 20 (hold 4 starts for postseason.

16 starts in the regular season, 5 days apart. That's 80 days, or roughly 3 months of schedule......July, August and September.

Please don't burn innings in June that could be used in October.



what if they don't get to October?


It won't be because of a few starts missed by a guy returning from TJS.
Walker  
NYG22 : 2/19/2021 10:56 am : link
Can someone describe his stuff or give a little summary of what to expect (hope)?
RE: RE: RE: ..  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 10:58 am : link
In comment 15157109 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15157102 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 15157064 Named Later said:


Quote:


Re : Thor's return to the rotation

Please, don't overuse this guy early in June. I want him ready for the playoffs this year.

Let's have some fun with baseball math. Feel free to correct any of my numbers, or offer your own estimates --

Thor's innings limit this year = 120 innings ??
Average innings per start this yr = 6 innings.
Probable starts from Thor this yr = 20 (hold 4 starts for postseason.

16 starts in the regular season, 5 days apart. That's 80 days, or roughly 3 months of schedule......July, August and September.

Please don't burn innings in June that could be used in October.



what if they don't get to October?



It won't be because of a few starts missed by a guy returning from TJS.


How do you know?

It often comes down to 1 game.

What if they lose the division by a game and wind up having to play the WC?

Not to rehash all this but medical deicsions and innings limits should be made by the team doctors, the team, and the player, not the fans.
RE: Walker  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15157111 NYG22 said:
Quote:
Can someone describe his stuff or give a little summary of what to expect (hope)?


From Keith Law:

Quote:
Walker works with four pitches, none of which is really an out pitch, although his curveball could still be that for him. Showing he could stay healthy and hold his stuff even in this short season was a positive step; now he needs to show that he can pitch with the above-average or better control he’ll need (and that he flashes) to pitch effectively with a bucket of grade-50 or -55 pitches. He’s a back-end starter now but has some upside potential to be a league-average guy if his control ticks up or he uses the curveball more often or he regains a little velocity with more time away from surgery.


Also he supposedly changed the grip on his slider last year and had a lot of success with that newish pitch. Below is an article from last year in ST that talks more about his personality/maturation from big time prospect to where he was last year trying to return from injuries.
The maturation of Taijuan Walker: ‘I really want to help the younger guys’ - ( New Window )
I'm a little  
Pete in MD : 2/19/2021 11:04 am : link
worried about a pitcher named Walker.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ..  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 11:09 am : link
In comment 15157113 pjcas18 said:
Quote:

It won't be because of a few starts missed by a guy returning from TJS.



How do you know?

It often comes down to 1 game.

What if they lose the division by a game and wind up having to play the WC?

Not to rehash all this but medical deicsions and innings limits should be made by the team doctors, the team, and the player, not the fans.


There are going to be anywhere from 10-30 games decided in the last inning of the game next season. If you want to point to "if it comes down to 1 game", their record in those games is going to be far more important than any single individual start. Bullpen performance, timely hitting, and defense - pretty much in that order of importance - will drive the record in close games. Even more so than the SP performance as we've learned the hard way with JDG's W/L record the last several years.

And not to rehash but nobody here is making a medical commentary. The team is going to have an innings limit limit. Nobody is speculating as to what that limit should be. Just which games are most important for those innings to be utilized. Nobody needs an MD to do simple math.
PJ let me put this into hockey terms (indulge the hypoethetical)  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 11:20 am : link
if Carey Price was on a pitch count where he could only start 60 games in a given season for whatever reason, wouldn't you want to be strategic about how many games you played him in the regular season?

If you miss the playoffs by 1 game that would suck but wouldn't it equally suck if you made it to the conf semis and he had already maxed out his limit?

That's all anyone is saying re: Thor. We don't know what his innings limit is and I doubt anyone cares about what the specific number is (or disagrees with whatever # the NYM doctors determine). Only that he has room within that number to pitch a full post season and not get maxed out.
RE: RE: ..  
Named Later : 2/19/2021 11:24 am : link
In comment 15157102 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15157064 Named Later said:


Quote:


Re : Thor's return to the rotation

Please, don't overuse this guy early in June. I want him ready for the playoffs this year.

Let's have some fun with baseball math. Feel free to correct any of my numbers, or offer your own estimates --

Thor's innings limit this year = 120 innings ??
Average innings per start this yr = 6 innings.
Probable starts from Thor this yr = 20 (hold 4 starts for postseason.

16 starts in the regular season, 5 days apart. That's 80 days, or roughly 3 months of schedule......July, August and September.

Please don't burn innings in June that could be used in October.



what if they don't get to October?



Then he's got some innings left for the September kick to the finish line. And he will be well-rested going into the 2022 season. I don't want to create a Matt Harvey 2.0 situation here.

Play along with my math ?? Is a 120 innings limit reasonable ?? Is average of 6 innings per start reasonable ??
This is kind of giving him  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 11:25 am : link
and innings limit - even with a question mark.

1 win in June = 1 win in September. they literally count exactly the same. If you miss the playoffs by 1 game the loss in June is just as much the reason as the loss in September.

and of course there could be a ton of reasons, simply again saying as fans none of us is qualified to say how much or when Syndergaard should pitch.


Quote:
...Thor's innings limit this year = 120 innings ??
Average innings per start this yr = 6 innings.
Probable starts from Thor this yr = 20 (hold 4 starts for postseason.

16 starts in the regular season, 5 days apart. That's 80 days, or roughly 3 months of schedule......July, August and September.

Please don't burn innings in June that could be used in October...


Lastly, and most importantly science doesn't support any of your fearmongering.

Quote:
.....Post-surgery workload is further reflected by a 2017 study conducted by researchers in California and Michigan. This study opined “a pitcher should be continually evaluated by the medical team through a multifactorial approach personalized to each individual pitcher that evaluates relative fitness, strength, performance, a subjective and objective examination and complaints, as well as volume and stress of individual and cumulative performance.” The researchers found no serious link between pitch count or inning limits and a second UCL injury — a major concern for many who have undergone the procedure before....
...  
Named Later : 2/19/2021 11:39 am : link
Ok Good.

Except that every pitcher coming back from major surgery has some kind of limit. I'm only trying to establish a framework for the season.



he's not diagnosing his innings limit from a medical point of view  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 11:40 am : link
he is estimating a random # based on what we've seen with other players to calculate starts. not to speak for named later but I don't think he has any opinion on 120 vs. 130 vs. 140 vs. 80 innings.

And I'm not looking to get into an argument on the medical best practices returning from TJS with the exception of saying every team spends a tremendous amount of resource to rehab these guys as well as possible and every team uses innings limits and pitch counts.
Strasberg  
Dr. D : 2/19/2021 11:51 am : link
Don't remember the details, but know it was somewhat controversial when the Nats shut down Strasberg the year he came back, when they were headed to the playoffs.

Maybe pj could make the argument that they wouldn't have made it to the playoffs without him and I know games in June count just as much, but I would hate to see the Mets shut down Thor if/when we are heading to the playoffs.

I know it's not a sure thing, but if I was Sandy, I want Thor in Oct and I'm betting on us making it. And for the starts/innings limit, I'm counting backwards from there.
.. assuming there is a starts/innings limit  
Dr. D : 2/19/2021 11:53 am : link
which I think is a safe bet.
that's also assuming  
Dr. D : 2/19/2021 11:57 am : link
we're not X number of games back in late June and our rotation isn't desperate for Thor.
shit. it's Strasburg  
Dr. D : 2/19/2021 12:06 pm : link
not berg

mmmmm. burg er
Basically every pitcher missed an entire  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 12:09 pm : link
year last year. My guess is all pitchers will be on counts and monitored in 21.
RE: Basically every pitcher missed an entire  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15157202 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
year last year. My guess is all pitchers will be on counts and monitored in 21.

Major league fearmongerers.
solid signing  
Rory : 2/19/2021 12:25 pm : link
Sandy is crushing it.

Lost in all these acquisitions is the Mets still haven't forfeited any of their draft picks yet.

I think that was part of the plan as to why not sign a top tier FA.

Fans need to take that into consideration
Of course no one wants to talk  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 12:46 pm : link
science because it doesn't back up your talking point.

And sure, Syndergaard will have a managed workload, but it should be fluid and based on how he responds to each start, not arbitrary.

And yes, every pitcher has an expected workload, otherwise why pull a pitcher as they approach 100 pitches as a rule of thumb, so don't be pedantic.

but back to science since it's not really an "argument" it's the only emotionless fact we have.

Quote:
...

Results:

Overall, 154 pitchers were included. Of these, 135 pitchers did not require revision UCLR while 19 underwent revision UCLR. No significant difference existed between pitchers who underwent revision UCLR and those who did not when comparing number of innings pitched in the season after UCLR (79.4 ± 46.7 vs 90.1 ± 58.6; P = .9016), number of pitches thrown in the season after UCLR (1233.2 ± 710.4 vs 1449.2 ± 904.1; P = .7337), number of innings pitched in the pitcher’s career after UCLR (357.4 ± 312.0 vs 399.3 ± 446.4; P = .6945), and number of pitches thrown in the pitcher’s career after UCLR (5632.7 ± 4583.9 vs 5674.7 ± 5755.4; P = .4789), respectively. Furthermore, no difference existed in revision rate between pitchers who pitched more or less than 180 innings in the first full season after UCLR (P = .6678).

Conclusion:

The number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown in the first full season as well as over a player’s career after UCLR are not associated with an increased risk of a pitcher requiring revision UCLR
....

link - ( New Window )
I know it’s probably not realistic but I  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 1:10 pm : link
would give up a ton for Suarez. I think that’s the final type of move you make when you’re “one player away”. Davis, Mauricio, and another top 5-10 prospect.

I think that makes us a 100 game winner and we’d STILL be close to the tax.
RE: I know it’s probably not realistic but I  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 1:30 pm : link
In comment 15157242 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
would give up a ton for Suarez. I think that’s the final type of move you make when you’re “one player away”. Davis, Mauricio, and another top 5-10 prospect.

I think that makes us a 100 game winner and we’d STILL be close to the tax.


What about Jose Ramirez? maybe more attainable than Suarez, not as good, but probably better than Davis (though you wouldn't know it from his 2020 fielding #'s).

I've never wanted to "upgrade" JD at 3rd this offseason  
BocaGene : 2/19/2021 1:53 pm : link
He will continue to improve in the field and he is an integral member of a young team that grown up together and has learned together the past two seasons. Plus having Lindor to his left will really calm him down and give him more confidence.

This team is ready to rock & roll.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 1:54 pm : link
Pat Ragazzo
@ragazzoreport
·
21m
Tough to say whether the #Mets will make another move after signing Walker, but I have been told that they did check in on free-agent relief pitcher Shane Greene recently

The 32-year-old was an All-Star back in 2019 and has posted a combined 2.39 ERA the last 2 yrs
PJ I think the points stated here are that  
bhill410 : 2/19/2021 2:50 pm : link
Our opinions don’t matter regarding correlation. His agent will demand some type of innings limit and Mets will work with the agent over the plan. This is where having an extension in place would be helpful actually. Yes one game in June equals a game in September but it does not equal a game in October. Given the roster it behooves the Mets IMO to ensure there is flexibility for Thor to pitch deep into October even if they don’t make it.
I hope they sign Greene  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 3:06 pm : link
That would really round out the pen.
Todd Frazier signs with Pirates  
KDavies : 2/19/2021 4:21 pm : link
Minor league deal. Mets probably already called them, trying to work out a deal
it seems like they just aren't that high on the remaining BP options  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 4:29 pm : link
I wonder if we see something like 2015 where they completely ignored the BP in the offseason and the right before the season swung the deals for Blevins (great!) and Torres (not great!).

I'd imagine there are other teams out there who have been shopping their own versions of Betances/Familia all offseason. Maybe the plan is to just go into ST, see what they have already, and they know there's a fallback where they can add someone expensive off another team's roster pretty cheaply in terms of trade cost?
looking at 40 man BP depth chart  
Eric on Li : 2/19/2021 4:46 pm : link
roster Locks = 4 (Diaz, May, Lugo, Loup)

expensive ?'s = 2 (Familia, Betances) *only reason they aren't locks is because of trade rumors.

young(ish) ?'s = 10 (Gsellman, Castro, Smith, Barnes, Tarpley, McWilliams, Diaz, Kilome, Reid-Foley, Zamora)
*almost all of these guys born between '93-'95

potential SP conversions = 2 (Luchessi, Yamamoto)

With or without Lugo banged up it would have been much better to have someone better than Loup on the "locks" list next to May and Diaz. That was a pretty thin core group before Lugo got hurt, now it's scary.

I do think there's a decent amount of talent in the 10 young ?'s group. Reid-Foley, McWilliams, Diaz are especially intriguing.

But as things stand there's a lot riding on Betances being 100% healthy or Familia finding control. Both very big uncertainties.
While true, you can add  
ZGiants98 : 2/19/2021 4:56 pm : link
Another 20 in non-roster guys with outside shots as well. Viscaino (who just turned 30), Blevins... younger guys like Gilliam and Szapucki... there gonna be plenty of pitchers battling for a spot or two.

That said sign Greene.
Arodys Vizcaino  
SuperRonJohnson : 2/19/2021 5:59 pm : link
is a intriguing possibility. If he could approach the level he was at before injury, would be a bonus
RE: Of course no one wants to talk  
moze1021 : 2/19/2021 6:11 pm : link
In comment 15157226 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
science because it doesn't back up your talking point.

And sure, Syndergaard will have a managed workload, but it should be fluid and based on how he responds to each start, not arbitrary.

And yes, every pitcher has an expected workload, otherwise why pull a pitcher as they approach 100 pitches as a rule of thumb, so don't be pedantic.

but back to science since it's not really an "argument" it's the only emotionless fact we have.



Quote:


...

Results:

Overall, 154 pitchers were included. Of these, 135 pitchers did not require revision UCLR while 19 underwent revision UCLR. No significant difference existed between pitchers who underwent revision UCLR and those who did not when comparing number of innings pitched in the season after UCLR (79.4 ± 46.7 vs 90.1 ± 58.6; P = .9016), number of pitches thrown in the season after UCLR (1233.2 ± 710.4 vs 1449.2 ± 904.1; P = .7337), number of innings pitched in the pitcher’s career after UCLR (357.4 ± 312.0 vs 399.3 ± 446.4; P = .6945), and number of pitches thrown in the pitcher’s career after UCLR (5632.7 ± 4583.9 vs 5674.7 ± 5755.4; P = .4789), respectively. Furthermore, no difference existed in revision rate between pitchers who pitched more or less than 180 innings in the first full season after UCLR (P = .6678).

Conclusion:

The number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown in the first full season as well as over a player’s career after UCLR are not associated with an increased risk of a pitcher requiring revision UCLR....

link - ( New Window )


Very interesting science based approach to the question: "Does the number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown after UCLR will affect whether a pitcher requires a revision UCLR?"

But the question I'd be interested in is: "Does the number of innings pitched and number of pitches thrown after UCLR will affect a pitcher's subsequent multi-year performance?"
I doubt  
pjcas18 : 2/19/2021 6:18 pm : link
they could prove performance is causal with usage or even related to usage because there are too many other variables.

pitchers performances fluctuate too much year over year without introducing TJS to IMO say for sure if workload has impacted the performance. Whose to say it's not simply mechanics?

My point is simply not to set arbitrary innings limits. And I certainly wouldn't let an agent "demand" one as others alluded to.

I'd suggest the medical professionals, the team and the player (and yes his agent) collaborate on the appropriate usage that is in the best interest of the player and the team.

And that's probably what they'll do IMO.
PJ - agents 1000% demand certain adherence  
bhill410 : 2/19/2021 7:33 pm : link
Knowing a couple folks from law school that are agents and let’s just say it’s somewhat sketchy what players will contrive if the team isn’t playing what they view as equitable. Given syndergarden is a free agent it’s of that much more import. So you can say being reasonable and point to whatever studies you want but at the end of the day the player and the agent need to be on board and the reality is that is going to on the conservative side (unless there is an extension in place).
Very much agree with this from Rojas  
Eric on Li : 2/20/2021 3:03 pm : link
Quote:
Tim Healey
@timbhealey
Luis Rojas said the Mets don't want to assign bullpen roles at this point, but their goal is for most relievers to be able to throw two innings by the end of camp.

"To define roles too early, it’s just not healthy," he said.
you guys keep throwing all these players  
Rory : 2/20/2021 11:00 pm : link
out there for the bullpen.

If you're a guy trying to find a spot at the top of a bullpen, the Mets are not the best option. There is alot of names at the top already.

We are done, I'm good lets get on to ST.
Heredia DFA casualty for Pillar  
ZGiants98 : 2/21/2021 11:34 pm : link
Noah to the 60 day IL for Walker.

Ages. Just thought it was cool how closely these guys are all bunched together in age.

1.). Brandon Nimmo CF. Age 27
2.) Francisco Lindor SS. Age 27
3.) Jeff McNeil 2B. Age 28
4.) Pete Alonso 1B. Age 26
5.) Michael Conforto RF. Age 27
6.) JD Davis 3B. Age 27
7.) Dom Smith LF. Age 25
8.) James McCann Age 30

Crazy that you have to get to our 8th hitter to find a guy over 28
RE: Met's ages  
Dr. D : 2/22/2021 8:54 am : link
In comment 15158426 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:

7.) Dom Smith LF. Age 25


Kind of crazy that a lot of people were writing off Dom 2-3 years ago; when he was only 22-23.
I don't think anyone  
pjcas18 : 2/22/2021 8:56 am : link
wrote off Smith, only complaint I ever heard about him was his defense and I remember reading nothing but good things about his D as a prospect.

Speaking of Dom though - check this link, no one is comparing Smith to Bonds, but...
link - ( New Window )
RE: I don't think anyone  
Shecky : 2/22/2021 9:16 am : link
In comment 15158465 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
wrote off Smith, only complaint I ever heard about him was his defense and I remember reading nothing but good things about his D as a prospect.

Speaking of Dom though - check this link, no one is comparing Smith to Bonds, but... link - ( New Window )

You forgot all the lazy bashing, and that he doesn't have nearly enough power?!?
RE: RE: I don't think anyone  
pjcas18 : 2/22/2021 9:19 am : link
In comment 15158468 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 15158465 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


wrote off Smith, only complaint I ever heard about him was his defense and I remember reading nothing but good things about his D as a prospect.

Speaking of Dom though - check this link, no one is comparing Smith to Bonds, but... link - ( New Window )


You forgot all the lazy bashing, and that he doesn't have nearly enough power?!?


I don't remember the lazy bashing, no. but I pay less attention to Mets media/social media outside of BBI or twitter.

I never thought Smith was going to be Alonso (from a power standpoint) - even as a prospect I read he'd more of a doubles hitter than a HR hitter.
Cespedes  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 10:17 am : link
will have a showcase on 3/2. I guess no harm sending someone but I don't see that one happening. I'll go with the White Sox as my guess.
Kevin  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 10:19 am : link
Mather's comments were so off the wall that I have to believe Seattle fires him. Like Michael Scott level idiocy.
Brach  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 10:23 am : link
minor league deal with KC
In  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 10:26 am : link
unimportant news, Lindor dyed his hair blue.
I mean Dom was concerningly overweight to the point where  
bhill410 : 2/22/2021 10:39 am : link
We were having conversations about what at chipotle he could eat without carbs because he apparently is their biggest fan. He also was a first basemen with no power. Still not quite sure where that came from, hopefully it’s not a product of the juiced ball, but he was Mitch Moreland best case scenario for a bit.

I'd like to see the Mets  
pjcas18 : 2/22/2021 10:41 am : link
wrap up Lindor and Conforto extensions before the season but I think both are unlikely due to LT.

Not sure if the players said no negotiations once ST starts or once the season starts, but I'd feel better going into the season knowing at least one or two of the "big three" impending FA's was extended.
Gamechanger  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 10:42 am : link
for Dom, even more than the weight loss was the sleep apnea diagnosis. His numbers since he was diagnosed vs. before are ridiculous. But yes, he didn't take his diet seriously, and not only was he out of shape, but he also didn't seem to take it particularly seriously. A flip obviously switched. Good for him.
.  
pjcas18 : 2/22/2021 11:37 am : link
New York Mets
@Mets
· 16h
We have signed outfielder Kevin Pillar to a one-year deal. In a corresponding move, outfielder Guillermo Heredia was designated for assignment. https://bit.ly/3ukNSgs
Heredia  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 11:38 am : link
is/was a dime a dozen. No loss if he's claimed.
Not much dead wood left on the 40 man  
Eric on Li : 2/22/2021 11:52 am : link
a bunch of cuttable arms but ST should sort that out.

Still very curious as to what they do w/ 3b. Part of me wonders if they are more seriously considering McNeil as an every day 3b than we realize and 2b becomes the competition to watch between Guillorme and Villar. That would put the Villar signing into a slightly different context than the "utility guy".

JDD then turns into a RH corner utility guy who can kind of shift wherever necessary once in a while (especially if they do end up finding a way to get DH approved).

Guess it all hinges on McNeil's D at 3b though.
McNeil  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 1:15 pm : link
had a shaky... 9 game run at 3b in 2020 (while clearly not 100%) and suddenly some felt he couldn't hack it. What IS pretty clear is the fact the Mets don't appear comfortable with JDD's 3b defense.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 1:17 pm : link
like them to add Clippard or Greene. Clippard has been sneaky good.
Lindor  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 1:20 pm : link
says the Mets have not yet approached him regarding an extension.
RE: Lindor  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/22/2021 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15158705 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets have not yet approached him regarding an extension.


Disappointing.
RE: Lindor  
Metnut : 2/22/2021 1:35 pm : link
In comment 15158705 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Mets have not yet approached him regarding an extension.


This is always the answer whenever any of our players are asked this. Better change over the next month.
Fred  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 1:54 pm : link
Wilpon was with the club this weekend.
Jaffe  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 1:58 pm : link
with a long piece on Walker

"Even with very conservative workloads, Walker projects to provide 2.9 WAR over the first two years of the deal, and 4.4 over the three-year stretch. That’s adequate production for a fourth or fifth starter, which is what the Mets expect him to be, as he’ll slot into the rotation behind Jacob deGrom, Carlos Carrasco, and Marcus Stroman, with lefties David Peterson or Joey Lucchesi likely to round out the starting five until Noah Syndergaard returns from Tommy John surgery, which won’t be any earlier than June given that the Mets placed Thor on the 60-day injured list in order to add Walker to the 40-man roster. Peterson pitched reasonably well as a rookie last year (3.44 ERA, 4.52 FIP in 49.2 innings), albeit with worse strikeout and walk rates than Walker offset by a stronger groundball tendency and a lower home run rate. Lucchesi was very solid for the Padres in 2018 and ’19 but spent most of last season at the team’s alternate training site, throwing just 5.2 major league innings. Long story short: this move gives the Mets — who already project to have one of the game’s top five rotations — some impressive depth. "
Link - ( New Window )
Not much dead wood left on the 40 man  
Dr. D : 2/22/2021 2:02 pm : link
I remember in the summer of '15 before the trades, guys like John Mayberry Jr. and Eric Campbell being counted on and getting WAY TOO many at bats. Those weren't the days.
Remaining  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 2:07 pm : link
Zamora (he stinks), Gsellman (but he has options so I'd hang onto him), Barnes (but that would be eating another "million"), Mazeika (don't think he's a realistic "next up" option if this team needs a C). That's probably about it.
RE: Fred  
pjcas18 : 2/22/2021 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15158732 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Wilpon was with the club this weekend.


Does he still own (as majority owner) any part of PSL? Team? Stadium?

I remember at one point he was trying to hold on to some minor league stuff. Not sure where it wound up.
RE: RE: Fred  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 2:13 pm : link
In comment 15158743 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15158732 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Wilpon was with the club this weekend.



Does he still own (as majority owner) any part of PSL? Team? Stadium?

I remember at one point he was trying to hold on to some minor league stuff. Not sure where it wound up.


He still owns a minority stake and the Willets Point land.
Minority  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 2:14 pm : link
stake of the big club.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 2:16 pm : link
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
19s
Dominic Smith and Carlos Carrasco were among four players absent from the Mets' first day of full-squad workouts due to a "non-injury-related issue," per Luis Rojas. All four should be on site by the end of the week.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 3:14 pm : link
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
44m
Asked if he is content with the Mets' third-base situation, GM Zack Scott responded immediately: "Yes, definitely."

Scott said the Mets are comfortable with J.D. Davis at the top of the depth chart at third. He indicated the team is probably done adding players to its roster.
Write up from MMO  
ZGiants98 : 2/22/2021 3:31 pm : link
Mets GM Zack Scott talked to reporters on Monday as the team had their first full squad workouts in Port St. Lucie.

When Scott asked if the Mets were content with their current third base situation, he responded, “Yes definitely.”

Scott went on to say that the Mets are comfortable with J.D. Davis atop the depth chart at third base. He also noted that the Mets are likely settled with their 40-man roster, meaning any players they still add would be on minor league deals.

Earlier in the offseason, Sandy Alderson had said third base was “up in the air.” They added Jonathan Villar as infield depth since then, though he has only 54 games at the position and none in the last four seasons.

During his press conference earlier in the day, Mets shortstop Francisco Lindor said that there’s been no extension talks to this point and that he doesn’t want to have them during the regular season.

When Scott was asked about the potential of extension talks, “The sooner, the better.”

Scott when probed on difficulties of talking extension without multiple players at once, “It’s not that difficult to do. I’ve been apart of those conversations before. We’ve been able to do it… I don’t think having multiple players and agents to talk about those sorts of things is a challenge.”
Jeffress  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 3:35 pm : link
minor-league deal with the Nats. Zero risk... but his numbers were scary last season. I'd take Clippard or Greene over him. Maybe even a roll of the dice on Robertson.
I definitely would take Greene  
ZGiants98 : 2/22/2021 3:54 pm : link
Sounds like the Mets might be done for now though.
Pretty  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 3:58 pm : link
dumb tweet. Cespedes was playing golf during the playoffs. How is this the same? lol
Link - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:01 pm : link
Alden Gonzalez
@Alden_Gonzalez
·
31s
Kevin Mather has resigned, the Mariners announce.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:16 pm : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
58s
Taijuan Walker, Mets
$23M, 3 yrs
Signing Bonus - $2M

$8M - 2021

$7M - 2022

Player option 2023 for $6M; $3M buyout.

BASE IN 2023 INCREASES BY $250K for 125ip; 135ip; 500K for 145ip; 155ip; 165ip; 175ip
Plus: $1M if traded (once)
Player will donate 1% of salary to Club Charity
Tommy Hunter is better than I thought  
ZGiants98 : 2/22/2021 4:28 pm : link
FIP in the 3s every year since 2012.

Seems fairly solid for middle relief.
Underlying  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:34 pm : link
numbers for Hunter are very ugly. Zero risk (so no complaints) but major, major red flags.
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 2/22/2021 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15158845 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Alden Gonzalez
@Alden_Gonzalez
·
31s
Kevin Mather has resigned, the Mariners announce.

I wonder if this gives Kelenic a chance to make the team out of Spring training. I read Mather saying Kelenic wouldn't stick because of service time manipulation.
Bottom  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:40 pm : link
13 percentile in exit velocity, bottom 10% in HH%, just a very ugly map. Ya never know, but with the decreased velocity, 35 in July, you see why a "hmmm FIP not bad" guy like this is taking a straight minor league deal
Link - ( New Window )
Referring to the drop in velocity?  
ZGiants98 : 2/22/2021 4:41 pm : link
I could see that. K/9 was actually up in 20. Last few years (wouldn’t count 19) he seems pretty good though. Idk.
Well I guess you answered  
ZGiants98 : 2/22/2021 4:42 pm : link
Not expecting much obviously but as the last guy in the pen type, he doesn’t appear terrible.
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15158883 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15158845 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Alden Gonzalez
@Alden_Gonzalez
·
31s
Kevin Mather has resigned, the Mariners announce.


I wonder if this gives Kelenic a chance to make the team out of Spring training. I read Mather saying Kelenic wouldn't stick because of service time manipulation.


Mather did the ONE thing that a player can cite fully as service time manipulation. He went on record acknowledging it. I think people are overstating how much this impacts them long-term. He and Rodriguez are going to stew over this for 6 years if 2-3 years from now the Mariners give them a monster offer? Doubtful. But Kelenic has a real shot to win a grievance.
RE: Well I guess you answered  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15158889 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Not expecting much obviously but as the last guy in the pen type, he doesn’t appear terrible.


Sure. ZERO risk. Not complaining about anybody on a minor league deal but his map/velocity aren't encouraging. Shane Greene (linked) in comparison looks like a solid gamble for someone
Link - ( New Window )
Walker  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:46 pm : link
was a no-brainer at that price and I say that as someone who openly doubts his supposed "upside". Now Lucchesi/Yamamoto are legitimate "depth".
Would love Greene  
ZGiants98 : 2/22/2021 4:49 pm : link
Just think he’s gonna get a ML deal and the Mets might be done there.

I actually could see Luchessi getting the 5th spot to start with Peterson going to AAA. Two weeks there means an extra year of control. Seems like a no-brainer with the depth we now have.
Peterson  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:53 pm : link
should either be in the big league rotation or Syracuse rotation. I have no issue with him pitching out of the pen come July-August if a need pops up but there is zero reason (as some have suggested) to have him pitch out of the pen early in the season. One additional upside of Peterson in Syracuse is giving him a few starts of 4-5 innings to help curb his innings.
Amazing  
ZGiants98 : 2/22/2021 4:53 pm : link

Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
Asked if the Mets would be scouting Yoenis Cespedes’ workout/showcase, Mets president Sandy Alderson responded, “We’re going to rent horses and ride to the workout.”
RE: Walker  
Eric on Li : 2/22/2021 4:54 pm : link
In comment 15158896 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
was a no-brainer at that price and I say that as someone who openly doubts his supposed "upside". Now Lucchesi/Yamamoto are legitimate "depth".


As someone intrigued by the upside I am also happy with the price.

At the end of the day the guy is 35-34 with a 3.84 ERA over his career and he was basically the youngest starter available in FA. Coming off a season where he came back healthy and pitched pretty well even if some ERA/K regression is due.

At minimum that's a big upgrade over Matz (31-41, 4.35 career ERA, turns 30 this year, coming off his worst stint as pro) and it didn't cost anything except a little extra cash. What the upside is I have no idea but I never would have guessed going into 2018 at age 28 that 18 months later Wheeler would be getting $100m+.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:55 pm : link
worth noting, it's unlikely Peterson has "unlimited" innings so if it's close this spring, it makes sense to use Syracuse as a way to artificially get him further into the season.
Still  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 4:56 pm : link
think Clippard is going to be a steal for someone. Granted, he could fall off a cliff quickly but he's been very solid for a long time. He also pitched with May in 2020, Carrasco in 2019, and Stroman in 2018.
RE: Still  
Eric on Li : 2/22/2021 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15158911 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think Clippard is going to be a steal for someone. Granted, he could fall off a cliff quickly but he's been very solid for a long time. He also pitched with May in 2020, Carrasco in 2019, and Stroman in 2018.


With the way some of these guys have held on forever (like Ollie and Soria) I have no issue rolling the dice on older relievers. Blevins included.
Last  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 5:00 pm : link
2 seasons Clippard is 35th in FIP, 30th in fWAR. 2020 18th and 12th. Given his likely very low cost I think he'd be a very solid add with the hope he gives you 50+ quality innings.
Jack  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 5:11 pm : link
Leiter touching 100 for Vandy today, good lord.
Can we just all agree not to mention the “K*****c”  
bhill410 : 2/22/2021 5:46 pm : link
On this board again. I was already on the fence about taking a step back about caring about the Mets given I have two small kids but that trade was my last straw. I remember ranting about it at the time on this very message board and something that looked beyond dumb to 99% or the fan base has somehow ended up looking even worse with time. So I beg and plead if only for all of our sanity, let’s pretend he doesn’t exist so we don’t have to constantly question why a GM would think giving up your best prospect in a decade for the right to take back a declining player owed 200 million plus a freaking reliever made sense. It’s the only way I can function.
bhill  
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2021 5:49 pm : link
more than fair, though I will say in this context, it's about the Mariners and the league on the whole vs. bitching about the trade. I'm tired of hearing about the trade as well. A rare move where almost "everyone" thought it was bad WHEN it happened.
Don’t disagree Dan - I couldn’t believe that a crazy story  
bhill410 : 2/22/2021 9:23 pm : link
That normally I would love reading of course featured K*****c prominently. It is like when they traded for dumb victor zambrano and then several years later money ball comes out and Scott kazmir is prominent in the book. Some of these trades just find a way to constantly be in your life.
RE: bhill  
Rory : 2/22/2021 10:08 pm : link
In comment 15158960 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
more than fair, though I will say in this context, it's about the Mariners and the league on the whole vs. bitching about the trade. I'm tired of hearing about the trade as well. A rare move where almost "everyone" thought it was bad WHEN it happened.


however...if Diaz goes on a tear, assumes the closer roll and can close out a world series win for the Mets. Would that make everyone feel better?
Too late on Clippard  
SJGiant : 2/22/2021 10:24 pm : link
Diamondbacks.
Clippard signing - ( New Window )
RE: RE: bhill  
Eric on Li : 2/23/2021 12:47 am : link
In comment 15159094 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15158960 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


more than fair, though I will say in this context, it's about the Mariners and the league on the whole vs. bitching about the trade. I'm tired of hearing about the trade as well. A rare move where almost "everyone" thought it was bad WHEN it happened.



however...if Diaz goes on a tear, assumes the closer roll and can close out a world series win for the Mets. Would that make everyone feel better?


yes, I think that would do it.
RE: Too late on Clippard  
Eric on Li : 2/23/2021 12:59 am : link
In comment 15159111 SJGiant said:
Quote:
Diamondbacks. Clippard signing - ( New Window )


I'm getting the sense they want to see how all these young guys shake out before spending money (hence cutting Brach). There are undoubtedly RP's available on the trade market the way Ottavino was and the way Familia/Betances likely still are.

Not saying they are right btw. I see a lot more quantity than quality.
I'd peg the odds of anything else big happening low but MIL in on JBJ  
Eric on Li : 2/23/2021 11:20 am : link
is kind of interesting. Perhaps the logic there is that they know many had interest in Cain, here's a chance to get a younger version of Cain on very fair deal since he's still hanging out on the market and also return something useful for Cain?

For the Mets, obviously OF is crowded right now and likely no deal would make sense without the DH approved.

But if DH gets approved, maybe something around JDD for Cain circles back with Milwaukee then using the money saved to sign JBJ? Maybe they can also somehow expand to get Hader? Nimmo + JDD for Hader + Cain?

Again I doubt anything else big happens in ST but Cain would seemingly be the type of vet who could hit market around the deadline if MIL isn't in contention (and especially if they do also add JBJ). Hader too for that matter.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:22 am : link
throw up MAJOR red flags if the Brewers were indeed looking to dump Cain for JBJ. They are nearly identical value players and JBJ will undoubtedly get more money and years.
ZIPS/Steamer have Cain 1.9/1.8  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:24 am : link
and JBJ 1.5 and 1.1. JBJ is younger (but still about to turn 31) and wouldn't be any cheaper. The Brewers shopping Cain to sign JBJ (no actual indication that's their plan, more likely valuing a "bargain" with potential plus defense in CF/LF) but it would be something I'd strongly be questioning.
RE: RE: bhill  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:26 am : link
In comment 15159094 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15158960 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


more than fair, though I will say in this context, it's about the Mariners and the league on the whole vs. bitching about the trade. I'm tired of hearing about the trade as well. A rare move where almost "everyone" thought it was bad WHEN it happened.



however...if Diaz goes on a tear, assumes the closer roll and can close out a world series win for the Mets. Would that make everyone feel better?


The Mets have to win a WS in the next few ie Diaz a key part of the team, for that trade to come close to being "okay". If they are a good team but don't win anything and Kelenic is a star, then we won't look back fondly on Diaz any more than Franco, Wagner, Benitez etc. He'll be a footnote.
Jack  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:28 am : link
Leiter won't be there at 19 (or close to it) but punishment for Leiter pushing Kazmir out the door should be Leiter getting just injured enough to fall to 19 lol
RE: I'd  
Eric on Li : 2/23/2021 11:30 am : link
In comment 15159429 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
throw up MAJOR red flags if the Brewers were indeed looking to dump Cain for JBJ. They are nearly identical value players and JBJ will undoubtedly get more money and years.


4 years younger and almost definitely lower AAV.

plus whatever asset they'd get for Cain.

jmo but it would make sense for just about any non-contender should be listening on a player entering their age 35 season.
RE: RE: I'd  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:33 am : link
In comment 15159444 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15159429 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


throw up MAJOR red flags if the Brewers were indeed looking to dump Cain for JBJ. They are nearly identical value players and JBJ will undoubtedly get more money and years.



4 years younger and almost definitely lower AAV.

plus whatever asset they'd get for Cain.

jmo but it would make sense for just about any non-contender should be listening on a player entering their age 35 season.


How much are the Brewers getting for Lorenzo Cain at 35 years old owed 35 million with most teams done spending and some teams at or over the lux tax? JBJ is going to be a bigger commitment than Cain and Cain is already part of that team (that has won games with him there). Sorry, this would be a very weird move and I'd think Cain's health is an issue.
Non-contender?  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:34 am : link
Many are picking the Brewers to win their division? Who is clearly better? They are absolutely "contenders".
PECOTA  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:37 am : link
has the Brewers winning 89 games, winning the NL Central and the 4th most wins in the NL behind the Dodgers, Padres and Mets. They project the Brewers to post the 7th highest win total in baseball (Dodgers, Padres, Mets, Yankees, Houston, Twins, then the Brewers (less than 1 win less than the Twins).
PECOTA  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:37 am : link
projections
Link - ( New Window )
PECOTA  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:39 am : link
gives the Brewers a 55% chance of winning their division, Mets 77 for context.
Alonso  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:40 am : link
looks like he's in good shape this spring. Looked a little heavy last year.

-Deesha
@DeeshaThosar
Noah Syndergaard only threw about three curveballs, but he likes the way they’re coming out right now. Excitedly brought them to the attention of another Mets staffer. His energy and motivation at camp so far continue to be a positive sign for his eventual return.
,  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:41 am : link
Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
31m
The Mets have re-hired former bench coach Dick Scott to the title of coordinator, coaching development and instruction. He's on site today.

Scott had spent the past three seasons in the Marlins' front office.
DMM if you were the Brewers would you do this  
Eric on Li : 2/23/2021 11:41 am : link
per Martino JBJ is seeking something around 4 years / 50m. (12.5m AAV). At this stage who knows if he comes close to that or not but let's say that's the number.

Cain is $17m this year, 18m next year. So that's a savings of about $10m over the next 2 years.

Plus whatever they can get for Cain. From a NYM standpoint I'd still probably trade JDD for Cain straight up if DH gets approved. So let's just use that as a hypothetical:

4 years of JBJ + 3 years of JDD
or
2 years of Cain

I guess that's similarly what the choice would be for the Mets too and I think there's an argument either way.
RE: Jack  
KDavies : 2/23/2021 11:43 am : link
In comment 15159441 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Leiter won't be there at 19 (or close to it) but punishment for Leiter pushing Kazmir out the door should be Leiter getting just injured enough to fall to 19 lol


Don't Mets pick 10?
RE: RE: bhill  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 11:46 am : link
In comment 15159094 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15158960 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


more than fair, though I will say in this context, it's about the Mariners and the league on the whole vs. bitching about the trade. I'm tired of hearing about the trade as well. A rare move where almost "everyone" thought it was bad WHEN it happened.



however...if Diaz goes on a tear, assumes the closer roll and can close out a world series win for the Mets. Would that make everyone feel better?


In this situation is Kelenic filling out his potential and becoming a superstar? Because I'm not sure.
If  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:47 am : link
I'm the Brewers I'm not giving 31-year-old JBJ 4 years at any reasonable sum. Barring something really surprising JBJ's max value is probably 2ish fWAR. I also don't believe the Mets would trade 4 years of JDD for Lorenzo Cain. While I'm not "overly" high on JDD. Leaving the Mets with "only" Villar/McNeil/Guillorme at 2b/3b seems like a major, major gamble. It's not as if the Mets have a 2b/3b prospect anywhere near ready to help them.
RE: RE: Jack  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:48 am : link
In comment 15159463 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15159441 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Leiter won't be there at 19 (or close to it) but punishment for Leiter pushing Kazmir out the door should be Leiter getting just injured enough to fall to 19 lol



Don't Mets pick 10?


You're right. They pick 10th. Leiter will be long, long gone. He's going top 3 barring again, major injury.
Rocker/Leiter  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:49 am : link
the clear (on paper) best arms in the draft. Both were eye openingly impressive yesterday. Rocker with the better build.
Keep  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:50 am : link
seeing Jaden Hill projected to the Mets in mocks. If he's a starter he's gone way before 10 and if he's a RP, then he's not a good pick (as much as the Crochett pick looks like a win for the White Sox)
/  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:51 am : link
Leiter, like Rocker, struck out the side in the first and ultimately struck out seven of the first 10 batters he faced before finishing with eight strikeouts over five scoreless frames. He gave up one hit and also hit a batter.

The son of two-time All-Star Al Leiter, Jack typically works in the mid- to upper-90s, but did reach 100 a couple times on the television broadcast, though there are some reports that the stadium gun was running a bit hot.

In addition to the fastball, Leiter also throws a 12-to-6 curveball, a low-80s slider with plenty of upside and has an advanced feel for spin.

There’s a long way to go until the Draft, which will take place July 11-13 in Atlanta, and it remains to be seen whether Rocker or Leiter sees his name first, but this much is clear -- opposing hitters are in for a long season.
Does  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:53 am : link
not sign like Cain is being dealt.

"“It’s incredibly significant how much better we’re getting defensively,” Counsell said. “But then, look, Lorenzo is a player with presence. He’s a person with a presence. He doesn’t have to say a lot. His competitiveness on the field, it rubs off on everybody.”

Cain will turn 35 in April. The Brewers still consider his defense elite. He won his first Gold Glove in 2019. He was an above-average hitter from 2017 to 2019, though his on-base percentage dipped to .325 in 2019. A potential revival from Cain might help explain why Baseball Prospectus’s projection system deemed Milwaukee as the favorites to win the National League Central.

“Lo’s return is obviously a huge shot in the arm for us,” Stearns said earlier this month. “This is a guy who has the reputation, and rightfully so, as one of the best defensive outfielders in all of baseball. Adding him back to the middle of our diamond makes a big difference.”
Robert  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 11:57 am : link
Murray says the plan would be JBJ/Cain/Garcia rotating in the other 2 OF spots (Yelich in RF) and that the Brewers have been "in" on most of the remaining FA's.
Some  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 12:00 pm : link
rumors the Yankees covet Lindor and hope the Mets opt to wait it out on extending him.
RE: Does  
Eric on Li : 2/23/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15159479 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not sign like Cain is being dealt.

"“It’s incredibly significant how much better we’re getting defensively,” Counsell said. “But then, look, Lorenzo is a player with presence. He’s a person with a presence. He doesn’t have to say a lot. His competitiveness on the field, it rubs off on everybody.”

Cain will turn 35 in April. The Brewers still consider his defense elite. He won his first Gold Glove in 2019. He was an above-average hitter from 2017 to 2019, though his on-base percentage dipped to .325 in 2019. A potential revival from Cain might help explain why Baseball Prospectus’s projection system deemed Milwaukee as the favorites to win the National League Central.

“Lo’s return is obviously a huge shot in the arm for us,” Stearns said earlier this month. “This is a guy who has the reputation, and rightfully so, as one of the best defensive outfielders in all of baseball. Adding him back to the middle of our diamond makes a big difference.”


Right, unless they sign JBJ. There's no reason to pay JBJ a lot if he's not in CF (which is why their interest in him rumored by Murray who is usually pretty plugged in is somewhat intriguing in the first place).
Not  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 12:14 pm : link
sure I agree there. Garcia is not good. JBJ is still a plus glove in LF, Cain is getting up there in age so they will likely give him planned days off. Steamer/ZIPS project Garcia at .6 fWAR... despite 128/136 games played. Is Bradley ideal in a corner? Maybe not, but likely still an upgrade over every day Garcia.
Steve  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 12:15 pm : link
Cohen back on twitter, Alonso oddly deleted his last night
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 12:34 pm : link
Joe Pantorno
@JoePantorno
·
48s
Taijuan Walker on his free-agency: "I just worked out every day... just waiting for something to come together. The #Mets called and we got it done in a couple days."
RE: Steve  
pjcas18 : 2/23/2021 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15159519 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Cohen back on twitter, Alonso oddly deleted his last night


I wonder if Portnoy will be on the attack. He's had some crazy videos today when the market opened up down.

Mostly against Robinhood but he hates Cohen.

RE: RE: Steve  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15159546 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15159519 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Cohen back on twitter, Alonso oddly deleted his last night



I wonder if Portnoy will be on the attack. He's had some crazy videos today when the market opened up down.

Mostly against Robinhood but he hates Cohen.


Easier said than done but Cohen should completely ignore Portnoy or anything resembling "attacks" including from fans on spending etc. If he can't do that, he should stay off of social media.
Giants  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 2:02 pm : link
sign Kazmir
RE: Giants  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 2:06 pm : link
In comment 15159628 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
sign Kazmir


Surprised he's still in the league to be honest.
RE: RE: Giants  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15159635 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15159628 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


sign Kazmir



Surprised he's still in the league to be honest.


He wasn't. Attempting a comeback. 92-93 in a workout apparently
the Kazmir trade  
KDavies : 2/23/2021 2:25 pm : link
is oddly one of those "I will never forget where I was" moments for me. Just awful
RE: the Kazmir trade  
Eric on Li : 2/23/2021 2:29 pm : link
In comment 15159658 KDavies said:
Quote:
is oddly one of those "I will never forget where I was" moments for me. Just awful


Same. I was on a jetblue flight that was boarding and had the TV's on (I think it was JFK). Had espn on as they were announcing it and then had to watch like 5 hours of discussion of it during the flight. Brutal.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 2:29 pm : link
Tim Britton
@TimBritton
·
11s
Michael Conforto on an extension: "I can't lie and say I haven't thought about it, but I'm trying to keep my focus where it needs to be." He said he would like to be involved in the negotiation personally, provided there is a negotiation.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 2:39 pm : link
Tim Healey
@timbhealey
·
25s
Pete Crow-Armstrong impressed during outfield drills today, including multiple sliding grabs during the portion focusing on low line drives/shoestring catches.

Most of the others didn't make the same catches.

Michael Conforto: "His speed is certainly something that pops out."
Walker chose #99  
Pete in MD : 2/23/2021 3:04 pm : link
because his #00 is reserved for Mr. Met. He has no respect for Turk Wendell?! :-)
is Khalil Lee in camp?  
KDavies : 2/23/2021 3:05 pm : link
hopefully between him and PCA, they can resolve CF internally the next few years.
DeGrom throwing  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 3:12 pm : link
99 and Betances... acknowledging his ++ velocity is probably gone... I don't see him being a productive big leaguer without it.
LOL  
pjcas18 : 2/23/2021 3:14 pm : link
not funny really but I laughed when I read this.

Quote:
Lenny Dykstra
@LennyDykstra
·
9h
Guess who hasn’t been arrested in 33 months!!!
RE: is Khalil Lee in camp?  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 3:14 pm : link
In comment 15159711 KDavies said:
Quote:
hopefully between him and PCA, they can resolve CF internally the next few years.


He's on the 40 man roster so he'll be there
Rooting  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 3:15 pm : link
for him to prove me wrong but I'm not sure he's on the team all-season


Anthony DiComo
@AnthonyDiComo
·
8m
Dellin Betances was focusing on his arm angle/mechanics in today's bullpen session, per Luis Rojas, rather than velocity.

That said, his fastball has dipped quite a bit from his prime. Betances said last year that he may need to learn to pitch at lower velocities.
RE: RE: is Khalil Lee in camp?  
KDavies : 2/23/2021 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15159721 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15159711 KDavies said:


Quote:


hopefully between him and PCA, they can resolve CF internally the next few years.



He's on the 40 man roster so he'll be there


Very interested in him. Even if he hits .250 and plays avg CF defense with some pop and his speed, could be a nice bridge to PCA starting next year if there is a DH. Just hit him #9.
In his prime... damn  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 3:18 pm : link
Looks  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 3:21 pm : link
like 4 players have yet to report including Cookie and Dom.
FG  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 5:03 pm : link
Jaden Hill, RHP, LSU: 4 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 K

When you’re seen as a sure-fire single-digit pick entering the spring, there’s not much room to move up. While it will take more than four innings against a team better than Air Force to cement that view, Hill certainly impressed in his season debut. He’s a physical beast at 6-foot-4 and 235 pounds, with monstrous stuff highlighted by a fastball that frequently got into the upper 90s, a low 80s power breaking ball and a more refined changeup than had been seen in the past. Between a shoulder issue in 2019 and the pandemic last spring, Hill entered the season with fewer than 25 innings under his belt. Scouts want get past the questions about his command, but if he continues to throw strikes the way he did on Saturday, he will move up on boards despite there being little room to.
DFA'ed by Oakland, Sandy had him there in 2020  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 5:32 pm : link
I don't see Hill being available  
KDavies : 2/24/2021 8:46 am : link
when the Mets pick.

Any players you are particularly interested in that realistically have a good chance of being there when the Mets pick?

Ty Madden is someone I will definitely be following. Obviously, you don't draft in need in MLB, but it would be nice if BPA was a college SP. Mets could definitely use a couple cost-controlled SP in a few years.
Some love the SS from carolina  
Shecky : 2/24/2021 9:39 am : link
Need another cup of coffee before I can remember his name

Someone they love will absolutely be available when they pick. It’s a deep enough top. But I wouldn’t be averse to selecting a safe close SP like a Mace, save a ton of $$ and go absolutely wild in second and third round. Remember. This is one of the strangest drafts of all time, and an unusual number will be available later in. Should be quite interesting.

Predication, several teams will think they are smarter than everyone else, and be drafted purely based on Rapsodo, trackman and even youtube pocket radars for pull downs and Max bells LOL
I will say this  
Shecky : 2/24/2021 10:31 am : link
This is FAR from the most ‘talented’ group of pitchers in a Mets camp. But you’ve got to go a ways back to find a group of “pitchers” like this group. Hefner is going to love working with this group and more importantly, this is yep he first time in a while they have a collection of very different pitchers. Depending who comes north, in a four game series, it’s going to be real tough for opposing batters to adjust from game to game or inning to inning. Even Loup, he’s just... different. Could be interesting.
Dom  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 10:33 am : link
has arrived. So I believe 3 players remaining absent including Cookie.
RE: I don't see Hill being available  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 10:37 am : link
In comment 15160260 KDavies said:
Quote:
when the Mets pick.

Any players you are particularly interested in that realistically have a good chance of being there when the Mets pick?

Ty Madden is someone I will definitely be following. Obviously, you don't draft in need in MLB, but it would be nice if BPA was a college SP. Mets could definitely use a couple cost-controlled SP in a few years.


A lot of Mets fans are pushing for James Wood. He's polarizing. MASSIVE kid with huge power. I'm torn on him, you see the upside but 6'6 "okay" athlete seems like a pretty high bust potential. I really like Mayer, House, he'd have to pitch well to go as high as 10 but I like Jobe a ton too.
Thor  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 10:38 am : link
throwing a BP session
Link - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 11:08 am : link
So 99% of the roster is there and yet here I am wondering who the 2 "missing" players are lol
RE: RE: I don't see Hill being available  
Pete in MD : 2/24/2021 11:13 am : link
In comment 15160393 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15160260 KDavies said:


Quote:


when the Mets pick.

Any players you are particularly interested in that realistically have a good chance of being there when the Mets pick?

Ty Madden is someone I will definitely be following. Obviously, you don't draft in need in MLB, but it would be nice if BPA was a college SP. Mets could definitely use a couple cost-controlled SP in a few years.



A lot of Mets fans are pushing for James Wood. He's polarizing. MASSIVE kid with huge power. I'm torn on him, you see the upside but 6'6 "okay" athlete seems like a pretty high bust potential. I really like Mayer, House, he'd have to pitch well to go as high as 10 but I like Jobe a ton too.

Olney, MD's own James Wood!
Wood  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 11:16 am : link
hits some BOMBS in BP. I've just learned my lesson on supersized HS prospects. I would not be upset if they took him, I just see the risk.
Thanks Dan  
KDavies : 2/24/2021 11:23 am : link
I do like Mayer. Yeah, I am leery of a 6'6" guy like that. There aren't many, outside of a Judge.
Wood  
Pete in MD : 2/24/2021 11:37 am : link
looks like a slightly shorter Tony Clark. Although Clark was a switch hitter.
RE: Wood  
KDavies : 2/24/2021 11:49 am : link
In comment 15160442 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
looks like a slightly shorter Tony Clark. Although Clark was a switch hitter.


He's a very interesting player. I remember reading comps to Vlad Sr. in terms of hitting the high fastball. From what I would read, he should be able to stay in the Corner OF.
RE: RE: the Kazmir trade  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/24/2021 11:50 am : link
In comment 15159665 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15159658 KDavies said:


Quote:


is oddly one of those "I will never forget where I was" moments for me. Just awful



Same. I was on a jetblue flight that was boarding and had the TV's on (I think it was JFK). Had espn on as they were announcing it and then had to watch like 5 hours of discussion of it during the flight. Brutal.


Surreal day.
one thing I am curious to see about the Mets  
KDavies : 2/24/2021 11:56 am : link
is they have been going position players in the 1st the past 3 years. Wondering if that is the strategy, or it just so happens it is the player they like the most. Past couple years they have followed in the 2nd with SP.

It really was a big part of the Cubs/Astros success going position players and supplemented much of pitching through FA. There seems to be a bit more predictability in outcome, and less injury risk, in position players.
Kazmir  
KDavies : 2/24/2021 11:57 am : link
at least with the Kelenic/Diaz trade you could say, well they need a close, and Diaz was great. Any maybe Kelenic busts, even though everyone hated the deal.

Kazmir there was no possible justification I could see for that deal
RE: one thing I am curious to see about the Mets  
Eric on Li : 2/24/2021 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15160461 KDavies said:
Quote:
is they have been going position players in the 1st the past 3 years. Wondering if that is the strategy, or it just so happens it is the player they like the most. Past couple years they have followed in the 2nd with SP.

It really was a big part of the Cubs/Astros success going position players and supplemented much of pitching through FA. There seems to be a bit more predictability in outcome, and less injury risk, in position players.


The injury risk aspect is key. And why I wouldn't trade all star position players for comparable all star level pitchers at the same age unless that player was absolutely elite. The chances players like McNeil, Conforto, and Alonso are healthy and productive for 1200 ABs over the next several years is dramatically higher than predicting any SP to throw 600 healthy innings.

Would much prefer to go after the next Wheeler/Bauer, or sign/trade for a variety of lower/mid level FA with upside while also trying to find at least 1 upside arm per year for the minors (like Allan and SWR).
RE: Walker chose #99  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15159708 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
because his #00 is reserved for Mr. Met. He has no respect for Turk Wendell?! :-)


Funny you mention this, Turk is the most famous baseball alumni from my alma mater. I always liked his idiosyncrasies - kind of fun. Wouldn't step on the foul lines, licorice in between innings and the necklace - among others.

and there's this:

Quote:
SNY
@SNYtv
· 19m
Turk Wendell made a necklace for new #99 Taijuan Walker and sent it his way: "A token of passing the torch" https://on.sny.tv/zBPdfD9


RE: Kazmir  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 12:47 pm : link
In comment 15160464 KDavies said:
Quote:
at least with the Kelenic/Diaz trade you could say, well they need a close, and Diaz was great. Any maybe Kelenic busts, even though everyone hated the deal.

Kazmir there was no possible justification I could see for that deal


Duquette once subtweeted me joking about the deal

Tweet
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Conversation
Daniel Wexler
@WexlerRules
·
Nov 17, 2020
Chernoff DID however once intern for @Mets
under ex-GM @Jim_Duquette
#Mets
Jonny Kaps
@JonnyKaps17
·
Nov 17, 2020
So he made the Kazmir trade?!
Jim Duquette
@Jim_Duquette
Replying to
@JonnyKaps17

@WexlerRules
and
@Mets
He also said he could fix VZ in 15 minutes, I think
Jeez I wonder what animals he included  
bhill410 : 2/24/2021 12:52 pm : link
In the necklace for walker
RE: Jeez I wonder what animals he included  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2021 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15160526 bhill410 said:
Quote:
In the necklace for walker


I didn't know really anything about Walker, but based on the recent twitter posts about him, sounds like some refined, cerebral, wine drinker, and reading about Wendell sending him a necklace made of animal teeth just seemed funny to me. I can see Walker opening it and reacting like a parent when your kid gives you the necklace they made in preschool with a string through some pasta.
RE: RE: Walker chose #99  
Pete in MD : 2/24/2021 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15160510 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15159708 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


because his #00 is reserved for Mr. Met. He has no respect for Turk Wendell?! :-)



Funny you mention this, Turk is the most famous baseball alumni from my alma mater. I always liked his idiosyncrasies - kind of fun. Wouldn't step on the foul lines, licorice in between innings and the necklace - among others.

and there's this:



Quote:


SNY
@SNYtv
· 19m
Turk Wendell made a necklace for new #99 Taijuan Walker and sent it his way: "A token of passing the torch" https://on.sny.tv/zBPdfD9



Wow, that's very cool of Turk. My sister went to Quinnipiac too, back when it was just a college and the hockey team was just a club.
RE: RE: RE: Walker chose #99  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2021 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15160602 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 15160510 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 15159708 Pete in MD said:


Quote:


because his #00 is reserved for Mr. Met. He has no respect for Turk Wendell?! :-)



Funny you mention this, Turk is the most famous baseball alumni from my alma mater. I always liked his idiosyncrasies - kind of fun. Wouldn't step on the foul lines, licorice in between innings and the necklace - among others.

and there's this:



Quote:


SNY
@SNYtv
· 19m
Turk Wendell made a necklace for new #99 Taijuan Walker and sent it his way: "A token of passing the torch" https://on.sny.tv/zBPdfD9





Wow, that's very cool of Turk. My sister went to Quinnipiac too, back when it was just a college and the hockey team was just a club.


So did I, lol. The hockey team wasn't club, but we were D3. Otherwise I couldn't have played. We were also the Braves, not the Bobcats, but times change.
Turk was my 2nd fav reliever of that era behind only David Weathers  
Eric on Li : 2/24/2021 1:53 pm : link
who you might remember as the guy who got hit in the face with a line drive, still got the out at first, waived off the trainers, and continued pitching. Turk was a badass too though.
I was between 13 and 17  
Pete in MD : 2/24/2021 1:59 pm : link
and my brother and I would go visit her and party with the college kids. I don't think that would be allowed these days.
RE: I was between 13 and 17  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2021 2:06 pm : link
In comment 15160624 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
and my brother and I would go visit her and party with the college kids. I don't think that would be allowed these days.


I have a child who is there now as a Freshman, not much has changed in that regard (partying) but you wouldn't recognize the school otherwise, it's massive.
Some people  
pjcas18 : 2/24/2021 2:19 pm : link
on here were saying how great Alonso was last year, seems like the hitting coach disagrees.

Either way, even if you think Alonso was fine in 2020, looking forward to the bounce back.

Quote:
Ryan Finkelstein
@FinkelsteinRyan
·
6m
Chili Davis expects Pete Alonso to bounce back. Thinks last year was just a sophomore slump.
Here are Alonso's prorated 2020 power numbers  
Eric on Li : 2/24/2021 2:35 pm : link
call them whatever you want to call them. I'll take his "regression" any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

44 homeruns (2nd best single season in franchise history behind his rookie year)
100 rbis (2nd time any NYM hitter has accomplished that in a decade, the other being his rookie year)

Also cool video at link below of the top prospects in ST. Allan's build and motion look a little like JDG.
The top prospects in the Mets' system have come into spring training with a bang. 🎸 - ( New Window )
btw just for reference last year Dom's 162 pace was 136 RBIs  
Eric on Li : 2/24/2021 2:48 pm : link
not to take anything at all away from him but that would have broken the franchise record by 12 (currently Piazza, Wright both tied with 124).

He'd have also posted the 4th best OPS in team history behind Piazza (2x) and Olerud ('98).

Dom + Alonso have had back to back historical offensive seasons and in no world should those bars be considered their base level of performance. Even if they are both HOF'ers they are not going to outdo all but the best seasons from guys who also posted legitimate MVP seasons like Piazza and Wright every single year. that's just insanely unrealistic.
Matt  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 2:52 pm : link
Allan is already significantly thicker than JDG. Closer to Harvey prior to Harvey putting on some bad weight. Allan probably outweighs JDG by 30 pounds
Endy  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 2:54 pm : link
Rodriguez the kid they gave up for Lucchesi got a very positive report from FG's and they ranked him the Pirates #20 prospect (in a very good system).
Dom  
KDavies : 2/24/2021 2:56 pm : link
was their best hitter last year IMO. I had more faith in him than anyone else at the plate, including Conforto.

Just an incredible breakout performance from him.
Braves claimed  
KDavies : 2/24/2021 2:57 pm : link
G. Heredia
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 3:27 pm : link
Justin Toscano
@JustinCToscano
·
4m
Luis Rojas when asked if J.D. Davis will be the primary third baseman: "We'll see ... He might be the guy that gets the most playing time there. We still want to see camp going and competition going."
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/24/2021 3:39 pm : link
The Indians announced Wednesday that they’ve claimed outfielder Harold Ramirez off waivers from the Marlins. Right-hander Jordan Humphreys was designated for assignment to open a spot on the 40-man roster.
RE: .  
Eric on Li : 2/24/2021 7:27 pm : link
In comment 15160724 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Justin Toscano
@JustinCToscano
·
4m
Luis Rojas when asked if J.D. Davis will be the primary third baseman: "We'll see ... He might be the guy that gets the most playing time there. We still want to see camp going and competition going."


He looked like he was in pretty good shape in his interviews today. I really hope he can get his defense playable. That would be a pretty amazing development for the organization.
I'm not a baseball expert like some of you guys  
Dr. D : 2/25/2021 8:50 am : link
I'm hoping that with JD concentrating on 3rd base and not working in OF, his D at 3rd will improve a little, but I'm wondering what the potential is for the presence of Lindor at SS making JD appear statistically to be a better 3rd baseman.

Could Lindor help raise JD's defense from way below avg. to near avg? Or is that dreaming?
RE: I'm not a baseball expert like some of you guys  
Metnut : 2/25/2021 10:11 am : link
In comment 15161088 Dr. D said:
Quote:
I'm hoping that with JD concentrating on 3rd base and not working in OF, his D at 3rd will improve a little, but I'm wondering what the potential is for the presence of Lindor at SS making JD appear statistically to be a better 3rd baseman.

Could Lindor help raise JD's defense from way below avg. to near avg? Or is that dreaming?


Hes unlikely to be made JD a better defender but he could cover enough range to really lessen the impact of JD’s poor to mediocre defense at 3B.
RE: RE: I'm not a baseball expert like some of you guys  
Dr. D : 2/25/2021 11:13 am : link
In comment 15161167 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 15161088 Dr. D said:


Quote:

Hes unlikely to be made JD a better defender but he could cover enough range to really lessen the impact of JD’s poor to mediocre defense at 3B.

Yeah, that's what I meant. If Lindor's range could result in a reduction of fielding opportunities for JD and possibly allow JD to cover the 3rd baseline better (being less concerned about his left side) ..

Guess we'll see.
Lindor  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2021 11:40 am : link
wearing the Prince Akeem (Coming to America) jacket.

lol

RE: Lindor  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2021 11:51 am : link
In comment 15161315 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
wearing the Prince Akeem (Coming to America) jacket.

lol



The Mets hired  
Pete in MD : 2/26/2021 9:37 am : link
Kedeem Octave, who's somewhat of a player development guru.
RE: The Mets hired  
Eric on Li : 2/26/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15162144 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
Kedeem Octave, who's somewhat of a player development guru.


They have somehow sort of threaded the needle between doing exactly what all of us hoped they'd do, but in a way that hasn't created sky high hype/expectations. Pretty impressive.
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