5 discount WRs. The problem is 2 of them are being paid way beyond their worth . Cole and Jones have made plays over the years . Granted but these acquisitions would not inspire .
We don't need a star. Solid is going to be a big improvement, and will likely be good enough until we can home grow through the draft. If we can land a star, great.
which is what I thought we would be getting in Tate.
I don't think it checks the box as far as playmaker or explosive plays but I do think it checks the box as far as size is concerned which we need and neither Smith/Waddle have.
Again my concern right now is that the top draft WR's seem to be Smith and Waddle. They both are smaller receivers and I want to make sure we go into the draft not NEEDING to draft anyone in the 1st.
Jones may do that. Definitely more of an outside guy. Wouldn't break the bank. You still want to get a receiver in the top 3 rounds but this would not put a gun to your head in round 1 or 2 if there were much better players available.
Can we cut SHEP, add Marvin and Samuel...Draft a WR?
maybe we get lucky with the cap being in the $180m - could leave some teams gun shy.
As for Shep I think the offense looks completely different without him, the impact is felt. But he's also playing hurt or not at all for 1/3 of the season every year. I wouldn't be opposed to cutting him assuming we'd spend that money on an upgrade.
we aren't getting one of Golloday or Robinson. I'd rather not even bring any of those other receivers in. We already have it on the roster.
I agree with you. If this is all that’s available after the top 2 or 3 guys then just draft two WR’s instead. At least you won’t be shelling out a bunch of cash for a mediocre return.
Cole has been a name that I've pushed for a few months.
I like Marvin, Samuel, Draft Pick , Slayton...plus "cast" better than avoiding a nice player to keep Shep. Shep is a No Impact Receiver.
There you go. Cut the one dependable receiver..Better they cut everyone not named Sterling Shepard.
Shepard is our best WR at the moment. He’s a perfect slot receiver. We just need to add two true outside receivers. Slayton may be one of them, but you need at least 4 viable WR’s to compete in this league.
seems to be flying under the radar and I am not sure why.
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a FA? He had a very good year last year on a team with not good QB, Juedy and others. The key to most of these targets will be versatility. Do these players play special teams? Can they play multiple receiver spots?
seems to be flying under the radar and I am not sure why.
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a FA? He had a very good year last year on a team with not good QB, Juedy and others. The key to most of these targets will be versatility. Do these players play special teams? Can they play multiple receiver spots?
RFA
But Denver has spent tons of draft assets at the WR position. I don't think it'll take a lot to make Den balk at matching an offer.
seems to be flying under the radar and I am not sure why.
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a RFA. I will put money down we don't give up picks for him.
How about Nelson Agholor? I liked him coming out of college but was just flat out horrible on Philly. He goes to Vegas and learned how to catch and get open again. No, he's not the number one that most want but if the price is right I think he'd be a great addition.
but I wouldn't hate to see them add a guy like Jones Jr.
He has a nose for the end zone, and his skill sets seem complementary to Shepard.
In theory, among Slayton + Shephard + Jones you would have a balanced group of skill sets (if still missing the twitchy athletic type).
Exactly this.
This team is missing a high-end, impactful playmaker in the receiving corps. Nothing against the players listed, but they are not that. Solid but unspectacular is not what this team needs. We have guys that fall into that category (like Slayton and Shepard) already on the roster.
Even players like Mack, Bachman, and Sills could develop into better receivers than the players on that list.
The problem is high-end WR talent rarely makes it to free agency, and if they do, they are expensive, or they have major concerns. This is why I think drafting a WR at #11 if one of the top 3 (Smith, Waddle, Chase) has to be the goal.
As some have mentioned, I really like Kendrick Bourne. He is a very nice player, but even he is not a top-end guy.
are useful players but they aren't much better than what we already have. I don't mind adding a guy like that but it doesn't address the problem many here say we have, that we are missing playmakers for our QB. These guys don't have top playmaking ability.
and get a whole new cup of soup and it wouldn't bother me at all. We really don't have one receiver worth crying over. It's a foregone conclusion that we add Samuel because Dave won't be able to resist an ex-Panther. Problem is if you just swap Samuel for Tate, what have you really improved?
WRs. It would be wise to sign one or two veterans for a discount. I like Cole, Tim Patrick or Nelson Agholar. All would fit in here as outside weapons, then you would have to prioritize spending a day 1-2 pick on another pass catcher and hope for the best. Really hoped they could have snagged a true weapon for Jones, as he’s had such a crappy core of weapons to work with in his time here so far. It’s a crucial evaluation year for him, If I ran the organization I’d do everything in my power to try and get the next Plaxico for my young QB. Hope Barkley comes back and repeats his rookie season, if he misses any more significant time with injuries you have to plan to move on. Really hope they draft a RB somewhere in the middle of this draft as well, a guy like Trey Sermon would look real good as a compliment and as insurance.
and the more I read articles about FA WR, the more I think that the Giants aren't going to solve their WR problem through FA.
At this point, it would make a lot more sense to use FA money to sign an OL (or 2), a CB, DL (if DT and Johnson leave) and LB (to play next to Martinez) - because there are some quality players that are going to be available at those spots.
They are going to have to solve their EDGE and WR problems through the draft because the value in FA just might no be there.
Anyway you cut it - the Giants aren't going to be able to fill all their holes in one offseason...and throwing big $$$ at mediocre players isn't going to help the situation.
RE: Cole has been a name that I've pushed for a few months.
Cole is strictly a slot, we need someone outside. Lazard could be an interesting option. Big guy, not the fastest, but his short burst numbers are pretty good for a guy his size. Only 25. If he shakes loose, I'd take a long look at him.
5 discount WRs. The problem is 2 of them are being paid way beyond their worth . Cole and Jones have made plays over the years . Granted but these acquisitions would not inspire .
This is my feeling too, more of the same. I'm tired of the "quantity" not "quality" theory on WR's. Rotating in more GOlden Tate's will not solve the problem. We need 1 guy who is clearly a top guy, either through the draft or by getting Robinson or Golliday. In 2007 we had Burress, in 2011 Nicks was at the top of his game. Its important to keep the defense honest, and not have them focus 11 players on Barkley.
seems to be flying under the radar and I am not sure why.
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a FA? He had a very good year last year on a team with not good QB, Juedy and others. The key to most of these targets will be versatility. Do these players play special teams? Can they play multiple receiver spots?
RFA
But Denver has spent tons of draft assets at the WR position. I don't think it'll take a lot to make Den balk at matching an offer.
But by definition, RFA are almost never bargains. If you sign them under market, their original team will match just because it's painless to do so. Unless the current team is completely cap-strapped, you basically have to overpay at least a little bit in order to scare off the other team from matching.
And if I'm not mistaken, the offer sheet ties up your associated cap space for up to five days while the other team can sit on it to decide whether to match. You could lose out on a few options while that goes on, and then could lose out on the RFA as well if they match.
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
He could have gotten plucked of their PS during the year
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
Well, that probably would have been an intriguing move, but now it's just woulda/coulda/shoulda.
As for ERFA, the simplest explanation is this - don't bother. Any decent (healthy) ones will be tendered, which means you'd need to trade for them - they cannot be signed by any other teams (hence the term "exclusive rights" free agent). And with a WR class this deep, why not just draft one instead and/or pick up a handful of UDFA WRs to find your own rather than give a division rival any extra draft picks?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
Well, that probably would have been an intriguing move, but now it's just woulda/coulda/shoulda.
As for ERFA, the simplest explanation is this - don't bother. Any decent (healthy) ones will be tendered, which means you'd need to trade for them - they cannot be signed by any other teams (hence the term "exclusive rights" free agent). And with a WR class this deep, why not just draft one instead and/or pick up a handful of UDFA WRs to find your own rather than give a division rival any extra draft picks?
That much i understand. I never gotten into the time frames and when you can go after them.
Back to my point, Why I owjuld go with him then drafting a UDFA is because in 3 years and about 5 different QB's I seen this guy make plays. He's just buried on the depth chart. Would not surprise me if they pull the tag.
IIRC. last year was supposed to be a WR deep class and they draft 0. What makes you think they will do it this year?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Go get Cam simms from WFT
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
Well, that probably would have been an intriguing move, but now it's just woulda/coulda/shoulda.
As for ERFA, the simplest explanation is this - don't bother. Any decent (healthy) ones will be tendered, which means you'd need to trade for them - they cannot be signed by any other teams (hence the term "exclusive rights" free agent). And with a WR class this deep, why not just draft one instead and/or pick up a handful of UDFA WRs to find your own rather than give a division rival any extra draft picks?
That much i understand. I never gotten into the time frames and when you can go after them.
Back to my point, Why I owjuld go with him then drafting a UDFA is because in 3 years and about 5 different QB's I seen this guy make plays. He's just buried on the depth chart. Would not surprise me if they pull the tag.
IIRC. last year was supposed to be a WR deep class and they draft 0. What makes you think they will do it this year?
But you can't have him. He's an ERFA, and almost certain to be tendered. You might as well wish we could just sign Jerry Rice in his prime, they're equally attainable.
He has a nose for the end zone, and his skill sets seem complementary to Shepard.
In theory, among Slayton + Shephard + Jones you would have a balanced group of skill sets (if still missing the twitchy athletic type).
He has a nose for the end zone, and his skill sets seem complementary to Shepard.
In theory, among Slayton + Shephard + Jones you would have a balanced group of skill sets (if still missing the twitchy athletic type).
What’s interesting and they point it out, even though it seems like he’s been around forever, he’s still just 30 years old..:)
We don't need a star. Solid is going to be a big improvement, and will likely be good enough until we can home grow through the draft. If we can land a star, great.
Why did Bourne go undrafted?
I don't think it checks the box as far as playmaker or explosive plays but I do think it checks the box as far as size is concerned which we need and neither Smith/Waddle have.
Again my concern right now is that the top draft WR's seem to be Smith and Waddle. They both are smaller receivers and I want to make sure we go into the draft not NEEDING to draft anyone in the 1st.
Jones may do that. Definitely more of an outside guy. Wouldn't break the bank. You still want to get a receiver in the top 3 rounds but this would not put a gun to your head in round 1 or 2 if there were much better players available.
For the price of Marvin and Samuel you can afford a true #1 WR
As for Shep I think the offense looks completely different without him, the impact is felt. But he's also playing hurt or not at all for 1/3 of the season every year. I wouldn't be opposed to cutting him assuming we'd spend that money on an upgrade.
Hell no on both. Neither offer any kind of significant upside/improvement and this regime won't go for Higgins.
There you go. Cut the one dependable receiver..Better they cut everyone not named Sterling Shepard.
I agree with you. If this is all that’s available after the top 2 or 3 guys then just draft two WR’s instead. At least you won’t be shelling out a bunch of cash for a mediocre return.
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I like Marvin, Samuel, Draft Pick , Slayton...plus "cast" better than avoiding a nice player to keep Shep. Shep is a No Impact Receiver.
There you go. Cut the one dependable receiver..Better they cut everyone not named Sterling Shepard.
Shepard is our best WR at the moment. He’s a perfect slot receiver. We just need to add two true outside receivers. Slayton may be one of them, but you need at least 4 viable WR’s to compete in this league.
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a FA? He had a very good year last year on a team with not good QB, Juedy and others. The key to most of these targets will be versatility. Do these players play special teams? Can they play multiple receiver spots?
Quote:
seems to be flying under the radar and I am not sure why.
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a FA? He had a very good year last year on a team with not good QB, Juedy and others. The key to most of these targets will be versatility. Do these players play special teams? Can they play multiple receiver spots?
RFA
But Denver has spent tons of draft assets at the WR position. I don't think it'll take a lot to make Den balk at matching an offer.
If you are trying to give DJ more weapons, you don't go get C level talent. The FO has to be creative and try to pry that guy rom another team..
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a RFA. I will put money down we don't give up picks for him.
How about Nelson Agholor? I liked him coming out of college but was just flat out horrible on Philly. He goes to Vegas and learned how to catch and get open again. No, he's not the number one that most want but if the price is right I think he'd be a great addition.
He has a nose for the end zone, and his skill sets seem complementary to Shepard.
In theory, among Slayton + Shephard + Jones you would have a balanced group of skill sets (if still missing the twitchy athletic type).
Exactly this.
This team is missing a high-end, impactful playmaker in the receiving corps. Nothing against the players listed, but they are not that. Solid but unspectacular is not what this team needs. We have guys that fall into that category (like Slayton and Shepard) already on the roster.
Even players like Mack, Bachman, and Sills could develop into better receivers than the players on that list.
The problem is high-end WR talent rarely makes it to free agency, and if they do, they are expensive, or they have major concerns. This is why I think drafting a WR at #11 if one of the top 3 (Smith, Waddle, Chase) has to be the goal.
As some have mentioned, I really like Kendrick Bourne. He is a very nice player, but even he is not a top-end guy.
At this point, it would make a lot more sense to use FA money to sign an OL (or 2), a CB, DL (if DT and Johnson leave) and LB (to play next to Martinez) - because there are some quality players that are going to be available at those spots.
They are going to have to solve their EDGE and WR problems through the draft because the value in FA just might no be there.
Anyway you cut it - the Giants aren't going to be able to fill all their holes in one offseason...and throwing big $$$ at mediocre players isn't going to help the situation.
Cole is strictly a slot, we need someone outside. Lazard could be an interesting option. Big guy, not the fastest, but his short burst numbers are pretty good for a guy his size. Only 25. If he shakes loose, I'd take a long look at him.
This is my feeling too, more of the same. I'm tired of the "quantity" not "quality" theory on WR's. Rotating in more GOlden Tate's will not solve the problem. We need 1 guy who is clearly a top guy, either through the draft or by getting Robinson or Golliday. In 2007 we had Burress, in 2011 Nicks was at the top of his game. Its important to keep the defense honest, and not have them focus 11 players on Barkley.
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Though the off the field stuff for Higgins might be concerning. But that also might keep his price down.
Hell no on both. Neither offer any kind of significant upside/improvement and this regime won't go for Higgins.
I'm talking about a small investment. 2 years 2.5-5 mill per. Not going to get perfect shopping in that price range. But you get better than CJ Board.
Why would they let him go?
Quote:
ERFA. Guy is 6'5, good hands.
Why would they let him go?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
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In comment 15157007 NYG22 said:
Quote:
seems to be flying under the radar and I am not sure why.
Granted he is not a WR1, but let's say they traded Engram for a Rd3 or 4 pick, drafted Pitts, cut Tate you'd have these weapons:
Barkley
Shep
Patrick
Slayton
Pitts
Patrick is a FA? He had a very good year last year on a team with not good QB, Juedy and others. The key to most of these targets will be versatility. Do these players play special teams? Can they play multiple receiver spots?
RFA
But Denver has spent tons of draft assets at the WR position. I don't think it'll take a lot to make Den balk at matching an offer.
But by definition, RFA are almost never bargains. If you sign them under market, their original team will match just because it's painless to do so. Unless the current team is completely cap-strapped, you basically have to overpay at least a little bit in order to scare off the other team from matching.
And if I'm not mistaken, the offer sheet ties up your associated cap space for up to five days while the other team can sit on it to decide whether to match. You could lose out on a few options while that goes on, and then could lose out on the RFA as well if they match.
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In comment 15157123 GManinDC said:
Quote:
ERFA. Guy is 6'5, good hands.
Why would they let him go?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
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In comment 15157177 adamg said:
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In comment 15157123 GManinDC said:
Quote:
ERFA. Guy is 6'5, good hands.
Why would they let him go?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
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In comment 15157276 GManinDC said:
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In comment 15157177 adamg said:
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In comment 15157123 GManinDC said:
Quote:
ERFA. Guy is 6'5, good hands.
Why would they let him go?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
Well, that probably would have been an intriguing move, but now it's just woulda/coulda/shoulda.
As for ERFA, the simplest explanation is this - don't bother. Any decent (healthy) ones will be tendered, which means you'd need to trade for them - they cannot be signed by any other teams (hence the term "exclusive rights" free agent). And with a WR class this deep, why not just draft one instead and/or pick up a handful of UDFA WRs to find your own rather than give a division rival any extra draft picks?
It is understated IMO just how bad Ben was this year.
And then even add one of these discount guys like Cole to be your speed guy.
JuJu in the slot, Cole, Slayton and draft pick as your outside WR's, Engram if he's still here at TE, Barkley at RB.
Fortify the OL (easier said than done?) and I'd consider the offense upgraded.
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In comment 15157279 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15157276 GManinDC said:
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In comment 15157177 adamg said:
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In comment 15157123 GManinDC said:
Quote:
ERFA. Guy is 6'5, good hands.
Why would they let him go?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
Well, that probably would have been an intriguing move, but now it's just woulda/coulda/shoulda.
As for ERFA, the simplest explanation is this - don't bother. Any decent (healthy) ones will be tendered, which means you'd need to trade for them - they cannot be signed by any other teams (hence the term "exclusive rights" free agent). And with a WR class this deep, why not just draft one instead and/or pick up a handful of UDFA WRs to find your own rather than give a division rival any extra draft picks?
That much i understand. I never gotten into the time frames and when you can go after them.
Back to my point, Why I owjuld go with him then drafting a UDFA is because in 3 years and about 5 different QB's I seen this guy make plays. He's just buried on the depth chart. Would not surprise me if they pull the tag.
IIRC. last year was supposed to be a WR deep class and they draft 0. What makes you think they will do it this year?
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In comment 15157283 GManinDC said:
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In comment 15157279 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15157276 GManinDC said:
Quote:
In comment 15157177 adamg said:
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In comment 15157123 GManinDC said:
Quote:
ERFA. Guy is 6'5, good hands.
Why would they let him go?
They got a bunch of guys coming up on contract and still need a QB. Make the contract where WFT can't/won't match
Are you familiar with how ERFA works? If WFT even tenders him, he can't negotiate with anyone else. If they don't tender him, there's no matching at all. But why would they not tender him?
Not an expert but i have an idea. I wanted them to pick him up last year as he sat on their PS until they had to play him. When he plays, he make plays. He just buried on the depth chart behind about 4 other WR's..
Well, that probably would have been an intriguing move, but now it's just woulda/coulda/shoulda.
As for ERFA, the simplest explanation is this - don't bother. Any decent (healthy) ones will be tendered, which means you'd need to trade for them - they cannot be signed by any other teams (hence the term "exclusive rights" free agent). And with a WR class this deep, why not just draft one instead and/or pick up a handful of UDFA WRs to find your own rather than give a division rival any extra draft picks?
That much i understand. I never gotten into the time frames and when you can go after them.
Back to my point, Why I owjuld go with him then drafting a UDFA is because in 3 years and about 5 different QB's I seen this guy make plays. He's just buried on the depth chart. Would not surprise me if they pull the tag.
IIRC. last year was supposed to be a WR deep class and they draft 0. What makes you think they will do it this year?
But you can't have him. He's an ERFA, and almost certain to be tendered. You might as well wish we could just sign Jerry Rice in his prime, they're equally attainable.