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A case for Nelson Agholor

robbieballs2003 : 2/19/2021 10:18 am
Forget about the "number 1 WR" mantra around here. Ask yourself what this offense needs. Do we need another slot WR who is an underneath guy or do we need more of an outside threat that can stretch the D? I think we all know the answer to this.

In Philly, Agholor was a major disappointment and this is the downside with what happens when you either don't utilize a player the right way or let them develop. Philly got rid of Agholor because of how disappointing he was. Agholor goes to Vegas and all he did was make huge play after huge play for them all year long.

His route running looked like it did in college. He didn't set the world on fire with a crazy season so his contract should be fairly reasonable. Last year he signed for like $1 million. I read that he is projected to get like $5 mil. For that price we should be players.

I also read that after the loss to Miami he called out his teammates saying that they didn't work hard enough and there was no accountability. While you don't want a guy going public with things like this, I also think this shows leadership that he is willing to say what needs to be said when players aren't working hard enough. That immediately made me think of his fit here. Think of the leadership we had on this team. We were losing but guys were sticking together. This staff is all about accountability. If Agholor truly believes in these things then I like his fit here.

This doesn't mean that our search for weapons is over. He is just one piece to the puzzle and I think Jones would love him as a deep threat.

He is just 27 years old and may he 28 during the year but that is still a young player. If the price is right he should be on the short list. He won't be at the top of the list but if what Ranaan is saying is true that they don't want to be a top heavy roster with contracts then this seems like an ideal target.

2020 highlights - ( New Window )
Obligatory Nelson Agholor shade  
ThreePoints : 2/19/2021 10:21 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
Absolutely agree  
beatrixkiddo : 2/19/2021 10:24 am : link
Mentioned him as a target in the other thread, he really showed he can be the player he was in college last year with the Raiders. I’d much rather pay him than someone like Corey Davis. If they can’t sign ARob or Golladay (really the only 2 IMO that are true #1 types) then it makes sense to sign a couple vets and see how they shake out. Gives us more flexibility in the draft to stick to their board.
I agree, the "#1 WR" thing is pretty ridiculous.  
Section331 : 2/19/2021 10:24 am : link
We need someone, anyone, who can line up opposite Slayton and stretch the field. Agholar is an interesting option, he struggled to stay healthy in Philly, but was pretty good in LV.
RE: Obligatory Nelson Agholor shade  
robbieballs2003 : 2/19/2021 10:24 am : link
In comment 15157062 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )


That's hysterical. But, as an added bonus, think about how pissed off Eagles fans would be if Agholor was productive for us. Lol
Or,  
Big Blue '56 : 2/19/2021 10:35 am : link
ne might revert back to his Philly ways
he might  
Big Blue '56 : 2/19/2021 10:35 am : link
.
It would be a very...  
Brown_Hornet : 2/19/2021 10:41 am : link
...Logan Ryan-like signing.
This is a pretty good idea...  
bw in dc : 2/19/2021 10:41 am : link
Agholor indeed had a very solid year for LVR. Really busted out with his YPA and TDs. He's only 27, too.

The drops are always a concern. But maybe that's a thing of the past...??

If we can't get into the premier WR sweepstakes, this isn't a bad Plan B option.
Good post  
RawhideMarshall : 2/19/2021 10:46 am : link
I was expecting to see his name on the 5 discount WR's article below. Was looking at his numbers with LVR compared to his time with Phi and the big plays really stand out. He averaged 18.7 yards per reception last year compared to a previous career average of 11.2. Similarly he averaged 10.9 yards per target compared to a previous career average of 6.7.

GM's will have to consider whether Agholor elevated his game last year or there are other factors at play, such as changes in usage, offensive philosophies, etc. Since we are only looking at one year of data with LVR, I focused on QB play. Derek Carr was middle of the pack last year in air yards per pass attempt and air yards per completion, and is generally not considered a top-tier deep ball QB. This leads me to believe that Agholor elevated his level of play and was not a product of a friendlier system.

I think Agholor's skillset would translate well to our offensive goals: stretch the field, keep defenders out of the box, open up lanes for Barkley, etc.
his YPC  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/19/2021 10:46 am : link
changing so much is just weird. He showed that he can be a decent deep threat in LV but it wasn't exactly a great year.

It would just be a move where I shrugged my shoulders and hoped for the best. I don't think he's particularly good but it wouldn't be a big contract.
RE: This is a pretty good idea...  
Ira : 2/19/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15157083 bw in dc said:
Quote:


The drops are always a concern. But maybe that's a thing of the past...??


That's what people say about Engram every year.
I haven't been paying attention to him  
rasbutant : 2/19/2021 10:47 am : link
but for a fanbase that is ready to sell Engram for a bag of donuts because of his drops. Isn't Agholor the king of drops?
Found this...  
rasbutant : 2/19/2021 10:49 am : link
“However, Agholor still had nine drops on his 82 targets, which earned him a 31.7 drop grade (109th of 115 wide receivers with at least 30 targets).”
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Good post  
robbieballs2003 : 2/19/2021 10:51 am : link
In comment 15157089 RawhideMarshall said:
Quote:
I was expecting to see his name on the 5 discount WR's article below. Was looking at his numbers with LVR compared to his time with Phi and the big plays really stand out. He averaged 18.7 yards per reception last year compared to a previous career average of 11.2. Similarly he averaged 10.9 yards per target compared to a previous career average of 6.7.

GM's will have to consider whether Agholor elevated his game last year or there are other factors at play, such as changes in usage, offensive philosophies, etc. Since we are only looking at one year of data with LVR, I focused on QB play. Derek Carr was middle of the pack last year in air yards per pass attempt and air yards per completion, and is generally not considered a top-tier deep ball QB. This leads me to believe that Agholor elevated his level of play and was not a product of a friendlier system.

I think Agholor's skillset would translate well to our offensive goals: stretch the field, keep defenders out of the box, open up lanes for Barkley, etc.


I could be wrong about this and this is the chicken or the egg argument, but I am pretty sure prior to 2020 Carr was one of the worst deep ball passers in the NFL by statistics. They go out and get Agholor and Ruggs and now Carr had a great season throwing the ball deep. I remember this with Ryan Tannehill too. In Miami he was awful at deep passes. He goes to Tennessee and that changed. So, imo, Agholor really helped out Carr.
I remember Agholor dropping  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/19/2021 10:52 am : link
a lot of balls too. But Pro-Football Reference has numbers since 2018 and it's not really comparable to Evan Engram.

Agholor has 151 receptions and 12 drops since 2018
Engram had 61 receptions and 11 drops in 2020
RE: his YPC  
UConn4523 : 2/19/2021 10:52 am : link
In comment 15157090 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
changing so much is just weird. He showed that he can be a decent deep threat in LV but it wasn't exactly a great year.

It would just be a move where I shrugged my shoulders and hoped for the best. I don't think he's particularly good but it wouldn't be a big contract.


Kinda how I feel. Seems to get a lot of jump balls/busted coverage catches which is great, but not dependable long term. I'd wager 2020 is more of an outlier than a taste of what's to come.

Wouldn't hate it, but I'd be cautiously optimistic about him.
RE: Found this...  
robbieballs2003 : 2/19/2021 10:53 am : link
In comment 15157094 rasbutant said:
Quote:
“However, Agholor still had nine drops on his 82 targets, which earned him a 31.7 drop grade (109th of 115 wide receivers with at least 30 targets).” Link - ( New Window )


Thanks. I was looking for his drop rate. So, that is a great negotiating tool for him to not have a big contract. I'm not saying we force a signing like this and give him whatever he wants but if the price is small enough then he makes sense.
Who cares?  
HomerJones45 : 2/19/2021 10:54 am : link
get him in here. There is not one of our current receivers to cry over losing if there is a chance to improve.
...  
ryanmkeane : 2/19/2021 10:56 am : link
pass.
High yards/target, so-so catch %  
widmerseyebrow : 2/19/2021 10:58 am : link
We need multiple receivers so I agree that this would be a move to consider.
RE: Good post  
bw in dc : 2/19/2021 10:59 am : link
In comment 15157089 RawhideMarshall said:
Quote:
I was expecting to see his name on the 5 discount WR's article below. Was looking at his numbers with LVR compared to his time with Phi and the big plays really stand out. He averaged 18.7 yards per reception last year compared to a previous career average of 11.2. Similarly he averaged 10.9 yards per target compared to a previous career average of 6.7.

GM's will have to consider whether Agholor elevated his game last year or there are other factors at play, such as changes in usage, offensive philosophies, etc. Since we are only looking at one year of data with LVR, I focused on QB play. Derek Carr was middle of the pack last year in air yards per pass attempt and air yards per completion, and is generally not considered a top-tier deep ball QB. This leads me to believe that Agholor elevated his level of play and was not a product of a friendlier system.

I think Agholor's skillset would translate well to our offensive goals: stretch the field, keep defenders out of the box, open up lanes for Barkley, etc.


Nice input here. Thanks.
RE: ...  
PatersonPlank : 2/19/2021 10:59 am : link
In comment 15157108 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
pass.


Yeah not a fan either. Seems to be more of what we have now.
I think we need a clear, top WR, not a continued series of "B" and "C" type guys rotating in (like Tate, etc).
RE: RE: Good post  
RawhideMarshall : 2/19/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15157098 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15157089 RawhideMarshall said:


Quote:


I was expecting to see his name on the 5 discount WR's article below. Was looking at his numbers with LVR compared to his time with Phi and the big plays really stand out. He averaged 18.7 yards per reception last year compared to a previous career average of 11.2. Similarly he averaged 10.9 yards per target compared to a previous career average of 6.7.

GM's will have to consider whether Agholor elevated his game last year or there are other factors at play, such as changes in usage, offensive philosophies, etc. Since we are only looking at one year of data with LVR, I focused on QB play. Derek Carr was middle of the pack last year in air yards per pass attempt and air yards per completion, and is generally not considered a top-tier deep ball QB. This leads me to believe that Agholor elevated his level of play and was not a product of a friendlier system.

I think Agholor's skillset would translate well to our offensive goals: stretch the field, keep defenders out of the box, open up lanes for Barkley, etc.



I could be wrong about this and this is the chicken or the egg argument, but I am pretty sure prior to 2020 Carr was one of the worst deep ball passers in the NFL by statistics. They go out and get Agholor and Ruggs and now Carr had a great season throwing the ball deep. I remember this with Ryan Tannehill too. In Miami he was awful at deep passes. He goes to Tennessee and that changed. So, imo, Agholor really helped out Carr.


Carr definitely improved last year as a deep ball QB. His intended air yards per attempt jumped from 6.6 in 2019 to 8.1 in 2020. Similarly, completed air yards per completion increased from 5.4 to 6.2 and completed air yards per attempt increased from 3.8 to 4.2.
Get Cam Simms from WFT  
GManinDC : 2/19/2021 11:04 am : link
6'5 good hands. 25yrs old. Under-utilized because of other players. Has special teams experience. Will not cost much at all.
I don't think the Giants  
Dnew15 : 2/19/2021 11:09 am : link
will be able to get a bon-a-fide #1 WR in FA, I think all three of those guys will get tagged.

Is there a guy out there that has the potential to still develop into a #1 that the Giants can sign?

Do you feel good about Agholor can be that kind of player?
RE: Who cares?  
UConn4523 : 2/19/2021 11:35 am : link
In comment 15157105 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
get him in here. There is not one of our current receivers to cry over losing if there is a chance to improve.


Its not about crying over replacing anyone. Its about whether or not we should use limited resources on someone else.

I don't think anyone on this entire site doesn't want an upgrade at WR.
Is Agholor a move the needle option for us?  
DavidinBMNY : 2/19/2021 11:46 am : link
Feels a little like Tate all over again. A guy with some success who has bounced around.
RE: RE: Good post  
AcidTest : 2/19/2021 11:55 am : link
In comment 15157114 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15157089 RawhideMarshall said:


Quote:


I was expecting to see his name on the 5 discount WR's article below. Was looking at his numbers with LVR compared to his time with Phi and the big plays really stand out. He averaged 18.7 yards per reception last year compared to a previous career average of 11.2. Similarly he averaged 10.9 yards per target compared to a previous career average of 6.7.

GM's will have to consider whether Agholor elevated his game last year or there are other factors at play, such as changes in usage, offensive philosophies, etc. Since we are only looking at one year of data with LVR, I focused on QB play. Derek Carr was middle of the pack last year in air yards per pass attempt and air yards per completion, and is generally not considered a top-tier deep ball QB. This leads me to believe that Agholor elevated his level of play and was not a product of a friendlier system.

I think Agholor's skillset would translate well to our offensive goals: stretch the field, keep defenders out of the box, open up lanes for Barkley, etc.



Nice input here. Thanks.


+2. Also a good thread by the OP. I'm fine with targeting Agholor. He played well in LV. The drops are still a problem, but not as much as when he was in Philly. All the mid tier WRs have warts (drops, age, injuries). Sign one and use a high pick on a WR. People need to understand that we likely won't fix this position group in one offseason.
RE: Is Agholor a move the needle option for us?  
robbieballs2003 : 2/19/2021 11:56 am : link
In comment 15157172 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
Feels a little like Tate all over again. A guy with some success who has bounced around.


The way I look at him is a guy to give us immediate results. Everyone wants that rookie WR as do I but we have to be realistic. Look at LV. They drafted Ruggs and Edwards. Neither made the impact that was expected. So, if people want a rookie wideout there is a decent chance they don't produce the way that has become expected with rookie wideouts. Maybe we draft the next Justin Jefferson or maybe we draft the next Ruggs, Juedy, or Reagor where they don't have the impact that was expected. Agholor, to me, would be that bridge player that gives a rookie time to develop and produce.
For the price of one ARob or Golladay,  
Simms11 : 2/19/2021 12:08 pm : link
we could get ourselves two dynamic receivers in Agholar and Samuel.
Just for some prospective on rookie WRs  
Dnew15 : 2/19/2021 12:22 pm : link

There were 5 almost 6 WR that would have lead the Giants in receiving yards had they produced the same numbers while playing WR on the Giants last year.

Jefferson/Lamb/Higgins/Claypool/Jeudy/Aiyuk was 3 yrds behind Slayton.
Wow  
Producer : 2/19/2021 12:23 pm : link
Agholar isn't good. Three Agholars isn't worth one Golladay.

For all you guys excusing Jones' bad play because he doesn't have playmakers, if all we do is add Agholar type guys we're going to be here again next season with the same stupid excuses.

Jones isn't good enough to make Agholar a star.

Ehh...not a big fan of Agholor  
Jimmy Googs : 2/19/2021 12:26 pm : link
He clearly had a better season last year although it seemed much more active as the year went on. But wasn't his catch rate and drops still underwhelming in 2020?

Not sure I like him calling out the rest of the team either, even if they deserved it. Has he earned that level of respect with his play?

Giants need to address the position with some mix of experience and youth, but some red flags there.
Giants need a “go to” receiver who can make the tough catch on  
Ivan15 : 2/19/2021 12:34 pm : link
Third and 8, Third and 10. He doesn’t have to stretch the field. He needs to get enough separation on third down so that Jones will confidently throw it to him and he will catch it inbounds. Deep speed is not a requirement but being available for 90% of the games is important. I would take an Anquon Boldin ahead of almost everyone named so far except maybe Robinson.

The Giants had this guy when they had Burress, Toomer, Nicks. Cruz was good but he wasn’t that kind of player.

If they are not or cannot get at a top 3 free agent WR, then they need to get a second tier guy who has shown these traits.

It doesn’t sound like Agholor is the guy.
RE: Giants need a “go to” receiver who can make the tough catch on  
Dnew15 : 2/19/2021 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15157219 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Third and 8, Third and 10. He doesn’t have to stretch the field. He needs to get enough separation on third down so that Jones will confidently throw it to him and he will catch it inbounds. Deep speed is not a requirement but being available for 90% of the games is important. I would take an Anquon Boldin ahead of almost everyone named so far except maybe Robinson.

The Giants had this guy when they had Burress, Toomer, Nicks. Cruz was good but he wasn’t that kind of player.

If they are not or cannot get at a top 3 free agent WR, then they need to get a second tier guy who has shown these traits.

It doesn’t sound like Agholor is the guy.


Steve Smith was soooo good in those spots.
RE: Obligatory Nelson Agholor shade  
DonQuixote : 2/19/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15157062 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )


That's funny!

Agholor's response (free tix for him and his family, wasn't bad)
RE: Wow  
widmerseyebrow : 2/19/2021 3:42 pm : link
In comment 15157210 Producer said:
Quote:
Three Agholars isn't worth one Golladay.


I think that's overrating Golladay by quite a bit and underrating Agholor.

Their recent stats suggest they're closer than you think in terms of YPC (chunk plays), catch % (catches per target not great for either of them), and yards (overall production). They're both not ideal #1s, except you'll have to pay Golladay like he is one, whereas Agholor won't command anywhere near that and is still starting on this current Giants team.

I don't think the OP suggested he's our long term answer as a #1 receiver, but we're trotting out Golden Taint and slow as ass Sterling Shepherd right now. It's going to take more than one acquisition there.
NO!  
mdthedream : 2/19/2021 8:12 pm : link
HE SUCKS!
RE: Wow  
bw in dc : 2/19/2021 8:26 pm : link
In comment 15157210 Producer said:
Quote:
Agholar isn't good. Three Agholars isn't worth one Golladay.

For all you guys excusing Jones' bad play because he doesn't have playmakers, if all we do is add Agholar type guys we're going to be here again next season with the same stupid excuses.

Jones isn't good enough to make Agholar a star.


I'm certainly not excusing Jones's poor play, but I saw pieces of 3-4 LVR games last and I was impressed with Agholor. And I am fully aware of his inconsistent performances in Philly. He looked like was getting consistent separation, attacking defenders, and making catches with his hands versus his body.
RE: RE: Wow  
Producer : 2/19/2021 9:12 pm : link
In comment 15157503 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15157210 Producer said:


Quote:


Agholar isn't good. Three Agholars isn't worth one Golladay.

For all you guys excusing Jones' bad play because he doesn't have playmakers, if all we do is add Agholar type guys we're going to be here again next season with the same stupid excuses.

Jones isn't good enough to make Agholar a star.




I'm certainly not excusing Jones's poor play, but I saw pieces of 3-4 LVR games last and I was impressed with Agholor. And I am fully aware of his inconsistent performances in Philly. He looked like was getting consistent separation, attacking defenders, and making catches with his hands versus his body.


he had an acceptable season. I wouldn't mind adding him but he isn't a #1. I thought BBI was dying for Jones to have a gamechanger at WR or TE. Add one of those plus Agholor and we should expect the offense to really pop, right?
I'm not proposing Agholor...  
bw in dc : 2/19/2021 9:27 pm : link
as a #1, but he could be a very good receiver who can stretch the field and make plays.
Depends on money  
adamg : 2/19/2021 9:40 pm : link
I think he's going to cost more than the OP thinks.

His YPR and TD production definitely stand out from last year. I'd prefer a shorter term deal just to mitigate if it was an outlier season.

That said, I think a guy like this is better than going after the upper echelon in terms of value. I think the idea is right. I'd prefer investing significant resources in CB2 in FA since we seem incapable of scouting college CBs.

That said we do need to shore up our WR depth. Tate needs to go imo.
i read that Agholor  
Rory : 2/19/2021 11:24 pm : link
was very upset with how things ended with Philly at the end.

I would think playing against them on a rival team in a big market would be a nice piece of motivation to take him to a new level.

Him and Jamison Crowder lets go, sign me up
RE: Wow  
santacruzom : 2/20/2021 1:25 am : link
In comment 15157210 Producer said:
Quote:

For all you guys excusing Jones' bad play because he doesn't have playmakers, if all we do is add Agholar type guys we're going to be here again next season with the same stupid excuses.



I think that's inevitable no matter who we acquire.
Kick the tires?  
Fishmanjim57 : 2/20/2021 11:24 pm : link
Oh hell yeah the Giants should.I think he still has some gas in the tank. Besides, when he was on the Eagles Wentz only liked to throw the ball to Zach Ertz. He only went to Agholor if Ertz wasn't open.
I would like to see the Giants go after Agholor  
Jay on the Island : 2/21/2021 12:05 am : link
He is a legitimate deep threat coming off a good season for Vegas. I wouldn’t offer him a big contract but a 2-3 year deal for around 7-9 million per year sounds fair. I would rather see the Giants sign a deep threat like Agholor, Curtis Samuel, or Corey Davis than spend 15-20 million per year on Allen Robinson, Smith-Schuster, etc.

Release: Kevin Zeitler, Nate Solder, Cody Core(re-sign vet min), Levine Toilolo, Golden Tate, Davis Mayo.

Trade: Evan Engram

Re-sign:
DE Leonard Williams
DL Austin Johnson
QB Colt McCoy

FA signings:
LB Haasan Reddick
WR Agholor/Samuel/Davis
TE Gerald Everett
OL Matt Feiler
G Forrest Lamp
DE Trent Murphy
QB Blake Bortles

Ruggs was banged up from week 10 on....  
Kev in Cali : 2/21/2021 1:38 am : link
So Agholor's stats in 48/82 catches (58ish%), 892yds/8tds, feels inflated.....and Carr's targets were likely Waller/Ruggs, then Agholor when all healthy.

Wentz, as good as he might have been tossing him the ball, couldn't surpass his season with LV either.

- 6 seasons under his belt
- Never busted out a 1K season
- Had a couple above average seasons (2017-768yds, 2020-896)

He feels like another Shepard/D. Hixon/S. Smith type.

If Marvin Jones Jr and Agholor are the best WRs we at BBI can come up with....

Then shit, hang tight....See if DJ/OL is the real deal, and draft our "#1" WR while keeping Tate/Shep/EE/Slayton/Barkley the "paid" starters.

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