20 sacks in four seasons. Only started most games this past season. I can see him getting paid but be wary. I don't see an Olivier Vernon situation here for a contract.
have a good amount of cap space to resign their guys although they may want to fortify their offensive line. They are notoriously cheap though so you never know.
I don't know about that, he had 64 quarterback pressures and 24 quarterback hits in 2020. There were only three edge defenders that had more pressures, and only one edge defender that had more hits. Sacks don't tell all
Pressure and hits are good, but Clowneys and Vernons shouldn't get paid top dollar or carry big expectations. Lawson would help but he's not a big difference maker.
Pressure and hits are good, but Clowneys and Vernons shouldn't get paid top dollar or carry big expectations. Lawson would help but he's not a big difference maker.
For $8.8 speculated, sign me up. That's a bargain for him.
but finding the finisher(s) would turbo boost the unit. It's an eyesore missing from the defense. They stunk at setting the edge consistently as well, Lawson would help solidify an edge.
but finding the finisher(s) would turbo boost the unit. It's an eyesore missing from the defense. They stunk at setting the edge consistently as well, Lawson would help solidify an edge.
Reliable quality on the edge is absolutely missing...badly
And Lawson is pretty good quality and while he still will command a hefty price tag, it might very well be the right price for the NYG to spend on a young gun like him. He beats a lot of blocks and if the Giants can keep putting up pressure from the middle, Lawson might be just what the doctor ordered bringing it/containing the edge.
Hand up, I’ve never heard of him. And i like the hand selected tape of him.
Something i think everyone can agree on, you want this team signing young (25) ascending players. I could be wrong but a guy like this is perfect theoretically for a young team rebuilding and will most likely be adding an edge in the draft. I say that because (as far as i know, could be wrong), he won’t be in the top 5 paid edge guys this free agency season and he’s young. Give me this guy at 9 mil per year over an older vet making 14+.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
Pressure and hits are good, but Clowneys and Vernons shouldn't get paid top dollar or carry big expectations. Lawson would help but he's not a big difference maker.
One of the biggest "almost there" guys in the NFL the past few years was Leonard Williams. Every year, year and year out, he "almost" got to the QB so many times he could have been in the "almost there" Hall of Fame.
Is Williams a finisher? He is now after years of "almost there". Yes, you can pay "almost there" players if you know what you are doing.
Pressure and hits are good, but Clowneys and Vernons shouldn't get paid top dollar or carry big expectations. Lawson would help but he's not a big difference maker.
One of the biggest "almost there" guys in the NFL the past few years was Leonard Williams. Every year, year and year out, he "almost" got to the QB so many times he could have been in the "almost there" Hall of Fame.
Is Williams a finisher? He is now after years of "almost there". Yes, you can pay "almost there" players if you know what you are doing.
Good post. I don't think Lawson is a bust out waiting to happen tho.
Pressure and hits are good, but Clowneys and Vernons shouldn't get paid top dollar or carry big expectations. Lawson would help but he's not a big difference maker.
One of the biggest "almost there" guys in the NFL the past few years was Leonard Williams. Every year, year and year out, he "almost" got to the QB so many times he could have been in the "almost there" Hall of Fame.
Is Williams a finisher? He is now after years of "almost there". Yes, you can pay "almost there" players if you know what you are doing.
Well, I'm not sure I would be so conclusive. LW was a finisher this year. But I wouldn't assume he's suddenly over the hump and is going to be this type of finisher going forward.
Which is why I wouldn't be so quick to pay him a big multi-year contract. One great year doesn't equal a trend.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
I would hope another edge rusher would be added in some form or fashion. If anyone thinks Lawson is the problem to our pass rushing woes you’d be sadly mistaken.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
I would hope another edge rusher would be added in some form or fashion. If anyone thinks Lawson is the problem to our pass rushing woes you’d be sadly mistaken.
Im sure they want another year to examine Carter, Ximines and Coughlin.
So they just need 1 reliable edge like Lawson while rotating in the other guys to see which sticks. Getting two premiere edge rushers would be awesome but expensive.
Lawson would be a dream come true for me, him on the edge and Leo Williams disrupting the middle would be huuge, id expect them both to be able to finish sacks more as well since they would push QBs into each other out the middle to the edge for Lawson to finish it off.
I think defense, O line, and wide receiver should be the priorities in FA.
If Lawson is the big name addition plus LW, that'd be fine. I like Michael Davis from LA as a CB#2. If they could swing all three plus a serviceable FA WR, we're cooking.
Not a star, won't be paid like one. Fills an immediate need, freeing up the team to think more BPA in the draft.
I'm more enthusiastic about a FA Edge rusher/OLB than I am about a FA WR. The draft is packed with good receivers who will be on their rookie contracts. Besides, I think the Giants don't want to put a lot of cap resources into veteran receivers. Second-level guys, maybe.
Strongly disagree... look at QB hits... and QB pressure % he’s actually very similar to LW with the Jets. Guy that gets a ton of pressure but doesn’t have the sack numbers.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
I would hope another edge rusher would be added in some form or fashion. If anyone thinks Lawson is the problem to our pass rushing woes you’d be sadly mistaken.
Im sure they want another year to examine Carter, Ximines and Coughlin.
So they just need 1 reliable edge like Lawson while rotating in the other guys to see which sticks. Getting two premiere edge rushers would be awesome but expensive.
Lawson would be a dream come true for me, him on the edge and Leo Williams disrupting the middle would be huuge, id expect them both to be able to finish sacks more as well since they would push QBs into each other out the middle to the edge for Lawson to finish it off.
Idk but the pass rush is lacking. Lawson with either Surtain or Mcfarley would make this a top 5 defense no doubt. Good corners with an above average pass rush
RE: Lawson is the kind of signing the Giants should look for:
Not a star, won't be paid like one. Fills an immediate need, freeing up the team to think more BPA in the draft.
I'm more enthusiastic about a FA Edge rusher/OLB than I am about a FA WR. The draft is packed with good receivers who will be on their rookie contracts. Besides, I think the Giants don't want to put a lot of cap resources into veteran receivers. Second-level guys, maybe.
Well thought out post (as per usual) by Dane.
Allow me to be THAT GUY to put some numbers to this via PFF grades. But first a little background noise.
This Giants' D under brilliant DC Pat Graham jumped from almost the worst in the NFL to on the edge of the top quartile. This jump occurred despite several glaring talent deficiencies: outside CB starter opposite JB; 2nd ILB alongside Martinez, and edge players - especially once Carter and Ximines both were lost due injuries.
This last weakness at edge manifested itself all year vis a vis opponents' time to throw and lack of sacks, particularly fast sacks, but it showed up even more dramatically like a witch's nose wart when the Giants failed miserably to curb the Ravens' outside rushing game late last year.
Three blind mice could see the glaring weakness at edge re containment.
With both prospective of last years' starting edge players coming back off of injuries requiring surgery, and Carter enering his 4th last year of his rookie deal, without having ever broken out into the player his raw athleticism deems possible (as his cieling), EDGE is a Gigantic Giants need.
The Giants have their own FAs to deal with among the teams' strongest and deepest units - their IDL. Two to be exact, Williams and Tomlinson.
Looking over the PFF grades of the Giants' IDL group they had in 2020, they had 2 guys with "very good" on the cusp of excellent ratings (Williams and Lawrence) and two guys with solid very good ratings in Tomlinson and BJ Hill.
Thats 4 players with very good PFF ratings rotating through 3 IDL positions, typically.
At the edge positions the Giants did not have any player with a very good rating. Carter in his third year rated in the next category of PFF, sort of "above average" while Ximines in his 2nd year earned a "meh" rating.
Lawson for the Bengals earned a solid very good rating (without much IDL help or supporting cast) - grading a bit below the scores of (Williams and Lawrence), but above Tomlinson and BJ Hill.
Lawson's projected contract falls below Tomlinson's, meaning possibly the Giants could sign Lawson at a greater position of need (as the squad currently stands) with less of a cap drain than would be needed to re-sign DT.
Theoretically at least, letting Tomlinson walk to sign Lawson looks like a good roster building move for the Gmen.
I hope this happens, but it won’t be cheap. He’d be a great fit on this defensive front.
4 yrs, $35,460,302
Link - ( New Window )
I don't know about that, he had 64 quarterback pressures and 24 quarterback hits in 2020. There were only three edge defenders that had more pressures, and only one edge defender that had more hits. Sacks don't tell all
Sign me up.
Here's the top 10 in QB Pressures in 2020:
1. TJ Watt – 61
2. Joey Bosa – 45
3. Aaron Donald – 45
4. Chris Jones – 44
5. Carl Lawson – 44
6. Shaq Barrett – 42
7. Leonard Williams – 42
8. Za'Darius Smith – 39
9. Chase Winovich – 37
10. Brian Burns – 37
Link - ( New Window )
Here's the top 10 in QB Pressures in 2020:
1. TJ Watt – 61
2. Joey Bosa – 45
3. Aaron Donald – 45
4. Chris Jones – 44
5. Carl Lawson – 44
6. Shaq Barrett – 42
7. Leonard Williams – 42
8. Za'Darius Smith – 39
9. Chase Winovich – 37
10. Brian Burns – 37 Link - ( New Window )
*Technically tied for 3rd (oops lol)
For $8.8 speculated, sign me up. That's a bargain for him.
Quote:
In QB Pressures in 2020 with 44. I guess technically tied for 4th.
Here's the top 10 in QB Pressures in 2020:
1. TJ Watt – 61
2. Joey Bosa – 45
3. Aaron Donald – 45
4. Chris Jones – 44
5. Carl Lawson – 44
6. Shaq Barrett – 42
7. Leonard Williams – 42
8. Za'Darius Smith – 39
9. Chase Winovich – 37
10. Brian Burns – 37 Link - ( New Window )
*Technically tied for 3rd (oops lol)
No, tied for 4th.
Reliable quality on the edge is absolutely missing...badly
And Lawson is pretty good quality and while he still will command a hefty price tag, it might very well be the right price for the NYG to spend on a young gun like him. He beats a lot of blocks and if the Giants can keep putting up pressure from the middle, Lawson might be just what the doctor ordered bringing it/containing the edge.
Have to imagine Cincy keeps him though...
Something i think everyone can agree on, you want this team signing young (25) ascending players. I could be wrong but a guy like this is perfect theoretically for a young team rebuilding and will most likely be adding an edge in the draft. I say that because (as far as i know, could be wrong), he won’t be in the top 5 paid edge guys this free agency season and he’s young. Give me this guy at 9 mil per year over an older vet making 14+.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
One of the biggest "almost there" guys in the NFL the past few years was Leonard Williams. Every year, year and year out, he "almost" got to the QB so many times he could have been in the "almost there" Hall of Fame.
Is Williams a finisher? He is now after years of "almost there". Yes, you can pay "almost there" players if you know what you are doing.
Quote:
Pressure and hits are good, but Clowneys and Vernons shouldn't get paid top dollar or carry big expectations. Lawson would help but he's not a big difference maker.
One of the biggest "almost there" guys in the NFL the past few years was Leonard Williams. Every year, year and year out, he "almost" got to the QB so many times he could have been in the "almost there" Hall of Fame.
Is Williams a finisher? He is now after years of "almost there". Yes, you can pay "almost there" players if you know what you are doing.
Good post. I don't think Lawson is a bust out waiting to happen tho.
Quote:
Pressure and hits are good, but Clowneys and Vernons shouldn't get paid top dollar or carry big expectations. Lawson would help but he's not a big difference maker.
One of the biggest "almost there" guys in the NFL the past few years was Leonard Williams. Every year, year and year out, he "almost" got to the QB so many times he could have been in the "almost there" Hall of Fame.
Is Williams a finisher? He is now after years of "almost there". Yes, you can pay "almost there" players if you know what you are doing.
Well, I'm not sure I would be so conclusive. LW was a finisher this year. But I wouldn't assume he's suddenly over the hump and is going to be this type of finisher going forward.
Which is why I wouldn't be so quick to pay him a big multi-year contract. One great year doesn't equal a trend.
I think small. He's been injury prone and his production doesn't warrant - IMV - top dollar.
Plus, they have Williams Jackson, who is good corner on the rise. So he might actually be more important...
No idea if Lawson is a finisher but if he shut down one side and can pressure the QB on a consistent basis, he's worthy of the Giants attention.
Quote:
With the lackluster pass rush. We need an alpha.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
I would hope another edge rusher would be added in some form or fashion. If anyone thinks Lawson is the problem to our pass rushing woes you’d be sadly mistaken.
Quote:
In comment 15157903 MtDizzle said:
Quote:
With the lackluster pass rush. We need an alpha.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
I would hope another edge rusher would be added in some form or fashion. If anyone thinks Lawson is the problem to our pass rushing woes you’d be sadly mistaken.
Im sure they want another year to examine Carter, Ximines and Coughlin.
So they just need 1 reliable edge like Lawson while rotating in the other guys to see which sticks. Getting two premiere edge rushers would be awesome but expensive.
Lawson would be a dream come true for me, him on the edge and Leo Williams disrupting the middle would be huuge, id expect them both to be able to finish sacks more as well since they would push QBs into each other out the middle to the edge for Lawson to finish it off.
If Lawson is the big name addition plus LW, that'd be fine. I like Michael Davis from LA as a CB#2. If they could swing all three plus a serviceable FA WR, we're cooking.
I hope this happens, but it won’t be cheap. He’d be a great fit on this defensive front.
Same here, Vin. I think NY Giants fans are going to be pleasantly surprised at how good he is if he comes on board.
I'm more enthusiastic about a FA Edge rusher/OLB than I am about a FA WR. The draft is packed with good receivers who will be on their rookie contracts. Besides, I think the Giants don't want to put a lot of cap resources into veteran receivers. Second-level guys, maybe.
Strongly disagree... look at QB hits... and QB pressure % he’s actually very similar to LW with the Jets. Guy that gets a ton of pressure but doesn’t have the sack numbers.
Quote:
In comment 15157905 The Dude said:
Quote:
In comment 15157903 MtDizzle said:
Quote:
With the lackluster pass rush. We need an alpha.
Are you drafting one, which can still happen if giants were to sign Lawson..or would you propose to pay the premium for a pash rusher through FA? Honest question.
I would hope another edge rusher would be added in some form or fashion. If anyone thinks Lawson is the problem to our pass rushing woes you’d be sadly mistaken.
Im sure they want another year to examine Carter, Ximines and Coughlin.
So they just need 1 reliable edge like Lawson while rotating in the other guys to see which sticks. Getting two premiere edge rushers would be awesome but expensive.
Lawson would be a dream come true for me, him on the edge and Leo Williams disrupting the middle would be huuge, id expect them both to be able to finish sacks more as well since they would push QBs into each other out the middle to the edge for Lawson to finish it off.
Get 1 through FA, one through the draft?
Quote:
In comment 15158011 MtDizzle said:
Quote:
In comment 15157905 The Dude said:
Quote:
In comment 15157903 MtDizzle said:
Quote:
Get 1 through FA, one through the draft?
Idk but the pass rush is lacking. Lawson with either Surtain or Mcfarley would make this a top 5 defense no doubt. Good corners with an above average pass rush
I'm more enthusiastic about a FA Edge rusher/OLB than I am about a FA WR. The draft is packed with good receivers who will be on their rookie contracts. Besides, I think the Giants don't want to put a lot of cap resources into veteran receivers. Second-level guys, maybe.
Well thought out post (as per usual) by Dane.
Allow me to be THAT GUY to put some numbers to this via PFF grades. But first a little background noise.
This Giants' D under brilliant DC Pat Graham jumped from almost the worst in the NFL to on the edge of the top quartile. This jump occurred despite several glaring talent deficiencies: outside CB starter opposite JB; 2nd ILB alongside Martinez, and edge players - especially once Carter and Ximines both were lost due injuries.
This last weakness at edge manifested itself all year vis a vis opponents' time to throw and lack of sacks, particularly fast sacks, but it showed up even more dramatically like a witch's nose wart when the Giants failed miserably to curb the Ravens' outside rushing game late last year.
Three blind mice could see the glaring weakness at edge re containment.
With both prospective of last years' starting edge players coming back off of injuries requiring surgery, and Carter enering his 4th last year of his rookie deal, without having ever broken out into the player his raw athleticism deems possible (as his cieling), EDGE is a Gigantic Giants need.
The Giants have their own FAs to deal with among the teams' strongest and deepest units - their IDL. Two to be exact, Williams and Tomlinson.
Looking over the PFF grades of the Giants' IDL group they had in 2020, they had 2 guys with "very good" on the cusp of excellent ratings (Williams and Lawrence) and two guys with solid very good ratings in Tomlinson and BJ Hill.
Thats 4 players with very good PFF ratings rotating through 3 IDL positions, typically.
At the edge positions the Giants did not have any player with a very good rating. Carter in his third year rated in the next category of PFF, sort of "above average" while Ximines in his 2nd year earned a "meh" rating.
Lawson for the Bengals earned a solid very good rating (without much IDL help or supporting cast) - grading a bit below the scores of (Williams and Lawrence), but above Tomlinson and BJ Hill.
Lawson's projected contract falls below Tomlinson's, meaning possibly the Giants could sign Lawson at a greater position of need (as the squad currently stands) with less of a cap drain than would be needed to re-sign DT.
Theoretically at least, letting Tomlinson walk to sign Lawson looks like a good roster building move for the Gmen.
At least according to 2020 PFF grades.