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NFT: T'wolves @ Knicks 7 pm MSG

Del Shofner : 2/21/2021 6:47 pm
Just watched the end of Celts - Pelicans - biggest comeback in Pels' history - they were down 24 and ended up winning in OT.

Anyway - LGK!
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Ja Morant shooting 20.6% from 3 pt for the year  
shyster : 2/23/2021 9:37 am : link
13-63. Has missed his last 15 in a row.

Good player, yes, but his shooting is a flaw. Doesn't have the classic J in his arsenal.

Dallas reached out to Golden State  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 9:40 am : link
according to Begely on a kp trade
I'd be surprised  
Jan in DC : 2/23/2021 9:57 am : link
if GS had interest. A big that likes to shoot the 3 doesn't feel like someone who would compliment Curry's game.
RE: I'd be surprised  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 10:06 am : link
In comment 15159308 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
if GS had interest. A big that likes to shoot the 3 doesn't feel like someone who would compliment Curry's game.


They're all about spacing and making 3s, and you have to give him that he's shooting incredibly well from 3 this year.

. He'd fit right in, but as a secondary player, not a #2 type guy.
RE: cant imagine they move him....  
djm : 2/23/2021 10:42 am : link
In comment 15159194 Italianju said:
Quote:
his value has to be lower then when we moved him. He is paid a ton, hasnt done anything to show teams he can stay healthy and honestly hasnt really progressed his game. Some team would still take a shot of course and i wouldnt be shocked if they did just as well as we did (salary relief if they wanted it, a bust former lottery pick and a couple firsts) but they def wouldnt do much better then we did.


I don't think I would trade back those 2 first rounders for KP. It's not even the picks or the assets it's more KP's value and that max deal. I am all but convinced this current regime will find someone to take a max deal and sooner rather than later. KP can go fuck himself into obscurity. Glad I am being proven wrong on this trade.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not saying I blame him either!  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/23/2021 10:47 am : link
In comment 15159199 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 15159086 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


In comment 15158848 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:




Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...


They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.

None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.

So, yes: I blame Carmelo.


not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.


Oh yes, I blame them the most. This and many similar moves buried the team for 20 years. But I don’t absolve Carmelo. He made a decision to Max his income, which is fine. But by forcing the trade he stripped the team from the ability to build a winner. Carmelo, both in negotiations and in play on the floor is a selfish player. Winning is secondary.
Since when is Tim Hardaway "a really good shooter"??  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2021 10:48 am : link
.
1 player from the melo deal  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 10:52 am : link
would of still been a knick if Melo waited until the off season and that is gallo..

People need to stop with this narrative if Melo waited they could of just added him into cap space
RE: Since when is Tim Hardaway  
adamg : 2/23/2021 10:53 am : link
In comment 15159382 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Since he went to Dallas, he's been ok.
hardaway shot nearly 40% from 3...  
Italianju : 2/23/2021 11:01 am : link
last year and is over 40% this year. And does it on a high volume (over 7 attempts a game). I always liked THJR, his biggest crime is he got grossly overpaid, not his fault. He isnt a great nba player or anything, but he is a solid rotation guy who got overpaid to the point where everyone hated him, haha. Id sure as hell much rather him then Bullock (not factoring in the $$).
How did Hardaway become a plus shooter.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 11:16 am : link
Never would have seen that coming. So inconsistent.
RE: Since when is Tim Hardaway  
Stu11 : 2/23/2021 11:23 am : link
In comment 15159382 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.

I realize you despise him Hreg but take the goggles off for a second. Over 40% from 3 the past 2 seasons is very good shooting. How many guys in the Knick rotation would you prefer taking the open 3 right now when Randle kicks it out to them late? Bullock? RJ? Payton. The only 3point shooters on the roster that even compare to him right now are Quickly or maybe Burks.
RE: How did Hardaway become a plus shooter.  
Jim in Fairfax : 2/23/2021 11:39 am : link
In comment 15159416 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Never would have seen that coming. So inconsistent.

Three biggest factors:
1) He significantly reduced the number of contested shots he’s taking.
2) He prioritizes getting to the spots he’s most effective from.
3) Luka Doncic. He draws the defense to him in the lane and then finds Hardaway for open shots.

#3 is almost certainly the biggest factor, as it leads to Hardaway doing the first 2. The Knicks never had that for him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Not saying I blame him either!  
Enzo : 2/23/2021 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15159380 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15159199 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 15159086 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


In comment 15158848 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:




Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...


They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.

None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.

So, yes: I blame Carmelo.


not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.



Oh yes, I blame them the most. This and many similar moves buried the team for 20 years. But I don’t absolve Carmelo. He made a decision to Max his income, which is fine. But by forcing the trade he stripped the team from the ability to build a winner. Carmelo, both in negotiations and in play on the floor is a selfish player. Winning is secondary.

Melo didn't decide what or how many players were going back in the deal. Walsh/Dolan could have negotiated a better deal - and the team could have done a better job building around Melo going forward.
I stand corrected  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2021 2:15 pm : link
I don't follow Dallas at all, so I didn't know he suddenly has become a significantly better shooter than he ever was for the Knicks. Don't know why anyone would have expected that to happen, though, since he was worthless his entire career prior to last season.
Melo  
TyreeHelmet : 2/23/2021 2:16 pm : link
The Knicks traded Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, a 2014 first-round pick and the swap rights in 2016.

- There really was no shot of him coming to the Knicks in free agency. If the Knicks didn't trade for him he was going to be traded to the Lakers or Nets and would sign a extension there. With the lockout coming he was not waiting to free agency.
- The Knicks fatal mistakes in the Melo era was not using the amnesty on Amare, the Bargnani trade and not being prepared to trade for CP3 ( who wanted to come to the Knicks).

Tell me how the package they sent out was an overpay? I just don't understand the narrative that the Melo trade broke up the 1970 Knicks. It would have been nice not to include the 1st round pick but you were trading for an all nba player in his prime.

I would recommend listening to Melo on Wojs podcast. Some really good insight.
I think  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 2:18 pm : link
Lowry could have a MAJOR impact on the title picture
RE: I think  
TyreeHelmet : 2/23/2021 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15159648 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Lowry could have a MAJOR impact on the title picture


Trade to the Sixers?
RE: RE: I think  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15159669 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15159648 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Lowry could have a MAJOR impact on the title picture



Trade to the Sixers?


The rumor is both the Sixers and LAC have "spoken" to Toroto but Toronto is hesitant to blow it up
Lowry makes $30 million  
Enzo : 2/23/2021 2:50 pm : link
Hard for a contender to acquire him without disrupting their core. He might be worth it though.
Serious question just throwing it out there:  
Stu11 : 2/23/2021 3:00 pm : link
This year and going forward putting any bias aside, who'd you rather have on your team Porzi or Randle?
Honestly for me talent wise if I feel I can compete for a title it would probably be Porzi. However if I'm the Knicks I'd say Randle. Porzi more semelessly fits in with a true alpha teammate like Luka. However his body will not age well at all. I think Randle has more top level type years in him and at this moment is a better all around player who you can count on to show up every night.
RE: Serious question just throwing it out there:  
Enzo : 2/23/2021 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15159705 Stu11 said:
Quote:
This year and going forward putting any bias aside, who'd you rather have on your team Porzi or Randle?
Honestly for me talent wise if I feel I can compete for a title it would probably be Porzi. However if I'm the Knicks I'd say Randle. Porzi more semelessly fits in with a true alpha teammate like Luka. However his body will not age well at all. I think Randle has more top level type years in him and at this moment is a better all around player who you can count on to show up every night.

KP's injuries make it an easy call for Randle. And this is from someone who hated (and still hates) the KP trade...and was looking to dump Randle for peanuts this past offseason. If Randle's 3 point shooting ability is a real thing going forward, this tips in his favor even more.
Speaking of KP  
BigBlueShock : 2/23/2021 3:36 pm : link
Cuban is not happy about reports on KP being shopped.


Link - ( New Window )
Porzingis already moves like an old man  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2021 3:46 pm : link
The idea of KP is much better than the reality. He's only going to get slower and more injury-prone as he gets older.
Julius  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 3:52 pm : link
Randle is a top 2 player on a title contender, and I thought KP could be but... he's moving like a robot so far this year. Absolute best case, further from injury, etc I still think KP likely has more absolute upside but far, far, far less sure of that than I used to be.
You take Randle over KP  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 3:57 pm : link
and you dont think twice, now you have to find Randle's running mate, is it Rj? can Quickley develop into that? i hope so but more than likely that player is not on the team yet
Randle is only 1 year older than KP  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 3:57 pm : link
..
RE: Speaking of KP  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/23/2021 4:00 pm : link
In comment 15159751 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Cuban is not happy about reports on KP being shopped.
Link - ( New Window )


What can Cuban say? They just recently gave him a ton of $.
RE: You take Randle over KP  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 4:00 pm : link
In comment 15159776 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and you dont think twice, now you have to find Randle's running mate, is it Rj? can Quickley develop into that? i hope so but more than likely that player is not on the team yet


Nothing against either player but a Randle/Barrett headlined team isn't competing for an NBA title without it being a 1 in 50 season where the Mavs had 4-5 BIG player who melded perfectly. I like both players but it's just not realistic.
RE: RE: You take Randle over KP  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15159782 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15159776 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and you dont think twice, now you have to find Randle's running mate, is it Rj? can Quickley develop into that? i hope so but more than likely that player is not on the team yet



Nothing against either player but a Randle/Barrett headlined team isn't competing for an NBA title without it being a 1 in 50 season where the Mavs had 4-5 BIG player who melded perfectly. I like both players but it's just not realistic.


agree with you 100%, i dont think the running mate is on the team yet..
Don't  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 4:06 pm : link
be Oladipo. Please.
RE: Don't  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 4:08 pm : link
In comment 15159788 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
be Oladipo. Please.


Im expecting them to add a shooting guard, i dont know who bit i expect them to do it by the deadline..
RE: Porzingis already moves like an old man  
Heisenberg : 2/23/2021 4:09 pm : link
In comment 15159761 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The idea of KP is much better than the reality. He's only going to get slower and more injury-prone as he gets older.


This is the crux of it. He was a Unicorn. Without that athleticism he's not the special talent he was. His defense, especially has suffered. In terms of guys who will likely age into their 30s, Randle is a lot better bet at this point.

Not to mention the personality difference. It's nearly impossible to imagine KP taking on the leadership and burden that Randle has. At least, I haven't seen that level of character from him yet. The response that Randle had coming off that bad 19-20 season is really impressive. Responding as he has to the challenges Thibs has laid out for him is really impressive. He just doesn't have the sense of entitlement you always got from KP.

That said, we'll take KP back for DET 2nd rounder.
unless HOU...  
Italianju : 2/23/2021 4:10 pm : link
gives him away i dont want him at this point. Id rather hold onto assets then go with him. Does he make us better, sure, but how much better? If Houston wants Knox or Frank and a second then sure, haha, but im guessing they want more.

If we arent in the Lavine/Beal range id just like a shooter like Redick, who wont cost much.
The league has changed so much  
bceagle05 : 2/23/2021 4:11 pm : link
even in the few years KP has been in the league. His potential as a "stretch five" is what made him a unicorn, but now everyone is shooting threes and a lot of teams don't even play with traditional centers, so it's just another guy jacking up 25 footers.
RE: RE: Porzingis already moves like an old man  
bceagle05 : 2/23/2021 4:13 pm : link
In comment 15159793 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
That said, we'll take KP back for DET 2nd rounder.

I think Timmy's a FA this summer, too. We're getting the band back together.
RE: unless HOU...  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15159795 Italianju said:
Quote:
gives him away i dont want him at this point. Id rather hold onto assets then go with him. Does he make us better, sure, but how much better? If Houston wants Knox or Frank and a second then sure, haha, but im guessing they want more.

If we arent in the Lavine/Beal range id just like a shooter like Redick, who wont cost much.


Oladipo is a free agent and doubtful he resigns with Houston, they are not gettinf much
The last  
Semipro Lineman : 2/23/2021 4:16 pm : link
Mavs game I saw, KP looked better than he did in the tweet showing him struggling against a small ball offense. Even being more mobile, he is still more of a defensive liability than Randle on everything but weakside shot blocking. In the West, I think every team above the Mavs in the standings has a mobile big man (C/PF) who are going to give him fits in a playoff series. The exception might be Portland if they don't get Nurkic back soon.


So this is both negative and positive  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 4:18 pm : link
But according to Randle on the JJ podcast, he aaid Wes came to him and basically asked him what type of coach does he need to reach his potential and basically described Thibs..

Now this is positive because it shows the aknocks wanted to get Randle right and playing to his best ball and were invested in him..

but if they were that invested in him why draft toppin?
Everyone  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 4:24 pm : link
and their mother said "let's see Oladipo next season"... next season is here... 40% from the field (below his career mark) 29.9% from 3 (below his career mark), 14.6 PER (below his career mark), .036 WS/48 (below his career mark) and yet again injury prone. He will be 29 in May. He'd be a horrible player to throw a monster deal at in my opinion.
If it took  
nygiants16 : 2/23/2021 4:26 pm : link
frank, knox, and bullock and a 2nd to grt him i would do it, see hoe he meshes and hoe he plays down the stretch, if he plays well sign him, if he doesnt let him walk
RE: If it took  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15159810 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
frank, knox, and bullock and a 2nd to grt him i would do it, see hoe he meshes and hoe he plays down the stretch, if he plays well sign him, if he doesnt let him walk


Sure, if Houston wants to give him away for players I don't care to see on the 2022 Knicks as a "try-out" then I guess it's fine but... this is a guy who hasn't played even 50 games since the 2017-2018 season
We need shooters!  
adamg : 2/23/2021 4:36 pm : link
Not Oladipo
.  
ajr2456 : 2/23/2021 4:39 pm : link
They didn’t get in on the three team deal involving Oladipo because they do want to sign him this summer and are considered the front runners by people in the league for him and or Dinwiddie. They won’t give up assets for Oladipo though, and I’d be shocked if he got more than a one year prove it deal around 15-20 mil with an option.

Keep an eye on Trey Murphy from UVA in this years draft. They’ve been scouting him heavily
RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 2/23/2021 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15159824 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
They didn’t get in on the three team deal involving Oladipo because they do want to sign him this summer and are considered the front runners by people in the league for him and or Dinwiddie. They won’t give up assets for Oladipo though, and I’d be shocked if he got more than a one year prove it deal around 15-20 mil with an option.

Keep an eye on Trey Murphy from UVA in this years draft. They’ve been scouting him heavily


If that's all he gets, then it will be one of the biggest blunders in NBA history. He reportedly turned down 113 million before being traded.
RE: RE: .  
ajr2456 : 2/23/2021 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15159825 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15159824 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


They didn’t get in on the three team deal involving Oladipo because they do want to sign him this summer and are considered the front runners by people in the league for him and or Dinwiddie. They won’t give up assets for Oladipo though, and I’d be shocked if he got more than a one year prove it deal around 15-20 mil with an option.

Keep an eye on Trey Murphy from UVA in this years draft. They’ve been scouting him heavily



If that's all he gets, then it will be one of the biggest blunders in NBA history. He reportedly turned down 113 million before being traded.


Things could change and it only takes one but the handful of teams I’ve asked about him say pretty much that same thing.
RE: .  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15159824 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
They didn’t get in on the three team deal involving Oladipo because they do want to sign him this summer and are considered the front runners by people in the league for him and or Dinwiddie. They won’t give up assets for Oladipo though, and I’d be shocked if he got more than a one year prove it deal around 15-20 mil with an option.

Keep an eye on Trey Murphy from UVA in this years draft. They’ve been scouting him heavily


So far as I know, Trey Murphy isn't going to enter this year's draft. He's a late bloomer as a player and he's still really skinny.
Sam Hauser likely will, though, and he is a damned good shooter  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2021 4:45 pm : link
Caveat with him is that lack of athleticism might make him a shorter Steve Novack in the pros, but man can he shoot.
RE: RE: .  
ajr2456 : 2/23/2021 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15159829 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15159824 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


They didn’t get in on the three team deal involving Oladipo because they do want to sign him this summer and are considered the front runners by people in the league for him and or Dinwiddie. They won’t give up assets for Oladipo though, and I’d be shocked if he got more than a one year prove it deal around 15-20 mil with an option.

Keep an eye on Trey Murphy from UVA in this years draft. They’ve been scouting him heavily



So far as I know, Trey Murphy isn't going to enter this year's draft. He's a late bloomer as a player and he's still really skinny.


He’s gone barring a disastrous close to the season. The league loves him and could end up as a late first rounder.
Interesting  
Greg from LI : 2/23/2021 4:54 pm : link
I hadn't heard that
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