Said if he would of taken a shorter deal and was a free agent, he and bron probably would of ended up in New york together with Bosh and wade somewhere togrther..
Also said the deal to Knicks was basically hashed out during a meeting 2 days before all star game with dolan, melo and masai...There were no talks between new york and denver before that meeting, masai didnt think new york had enough..
Deal was done with Jersey but Melo wanted new york so leon rose called the meeting, the hold up was mozgov and melo basically said you are not going to do the deal becajse of 1 player and the Knicks caved..
So when we saw Melo and Amare laughing at the all star game the deal was already done
That was always whispered but nice to see it proven.
well it was slightly more complicated than that. The lockout was looming and nobody knew what "max money" was going to look like - so he wanted to secure his next deal ASAP. I don't blame him one bit.
That was always whispered but nice to see it proven.
well it was slightly more complicated than that. The lockout was looming and nobody knew what "max money" was going to look like - so he wanted to secure his next deal ASAP. I don't blame him one bit.
yup this 100%, there were also talk about on rollbacks
have looked like if certain pre-2010 players were held onto. Several good to very good players (Z-Bo, Ariza, Lee, Crawford) were basically just given away. Adding Melo to some or all of them would have been interesting.
But, it does explain why the Knicks traded so much to get a deal done.
He wasn't going to sit and wait and then sign as a free agent.
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up enough that it made it difficult to build anything around him. Look up how many different teammates and starting lineups he played with in NY. Not a coincidence that his biggest success was in a year where they gathered a group of crusty vets around him. And once they were gone they barely did anything.
They gave up enough that it made it difficult to build anything around him. Look up how many different teammates and starting lineups he played with in NY. Not a coincidence that his biggest success was in a year where they gathered a group of crusty vets around him. And once they were gone they barely did anything. [/quote]
I think that is true that they did a terrible job of surrounding him with talent. But I don't think the trade was the cause of that. I just think they made some really poor personnel decisions.
But I really don't think the package they sent was an overpay for the type of talent Melo was at 26 years old...
No guarantee what would have happened without the deal
I haven’t seen a ton of him but in the games I’ve seen, White plays like a player that thinks he’s a million times better than he actually is. He doesn’t lack in confidence, that’s for sure
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
Again for the millionth time they couldnt just sign Melo, Knicks did not have the cap space..
Knicks had to trade for Melo to get him there was no waiting to get him..
They did not give up a lot, Chandler is a journeyman eho has been hurt a ton, Gallinari hurt a ton, mozgov is playing in Russia and was terrible..Felton ended up back on the knicks 2 years later..
where the Knicks screwed up was signing tyson chandler and amnestying Billups, Chris Paul wanted New York with Melo, if Knicms were patient they could of teamed them up..
It wasnt the Melo deal that screwed the Knicks, it was Knicks management
his value has to be lower then when we moved him. He is paid a ton, hasnt done anything to show teams he can stay healthy and honestly hasnt really progressed his game. Some team would still take a shot of course and i wouldnt be shocked if they did just as well as we did (salary relief if they wanted it, a bust former lottery pick and a couple firsts) but they def wouldnt do much better then we did.
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.
RE: No guarantee what would have happened without the deal
The guy couldn't show up for the front end of a back to back last night when the team literally hadn't played in over a week! Honestly I know he's not popular at all around here but a guy we really miss from that trade is Hardaway. Dallas basically is on national tv almost every game so I've watched them a ton lately and he's playing really well. He would be a perfect fit playing with Randle. He's a good spot up shooter who's not scared of taking the big shot late in the game.
his value has to be lower then when we moved him. He is paid a ton, hasnt done anything to show teams he can stay healthy and honestly hasnt really progressed his game. Some team would still take a shot of course and i wouldnt be shocked if they did just as well as we did (salary relief if they wanted it, a bust former lottery pick and a couple firsts) but they def wouldnt do much better then we did.
I don't think I would trade back those 2 first rounders for KP. It's not even the picks or the assets it's more KP's value and that max deal. I am all but convinced this current regime will find someone to take a max deal and sooner rather than later. KP can go fuck himself into obscurity. Glad I am being proven wrong on this trade.
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.
Oh yes, I blame them the most. This and many similar moves buried the team for 20 years. But I don’t absolve Carmelo. He made a decision to Max his income, which is fine. But by forcing the trade he stripped the team from the ability to build a winner. Carmelo, both in negotiations and in play on the floor is a selfish player. Winning is secondary.
Since when is Tim Hardaway "a really good shooter"??
last year and is over 40% this year. And does it on a high volume (over 7 attempts a game). I always liked THJR, his biggest crime is he got grossly overpaid, not his fault. He isnt a great nba player or anything, but he is a solid rotation guy who got overpaid to the point where everyone hated him, haha. Id sure as hell much rather him then Bullock (not factoring in the $$).
I realize you despise him Hreg but take the goggles off for a second. Over 40% from 3 the past 2 seasons is very good shooting. How many guys in the Knick rotation would you prefer taking the open 3 right now when Randle kicks it out to them late? Bullock? RJ? Payton. The only 3point shooters on the roster that even compare to him right now are Quickly or maybe Burks.
Never would have seen that coming. So inconsistent.
Three biggest factors:
1) He significantly reduced the number of contested shots he’s taking.
2) He prioritizes getting to the spots he’s most effective from.
3) Luka Doncic. He draws the defense to him in the lane and then finds Hardaway for open shots.
#3 is almost certainly the biggest factor, as it leads to Hardaway doing the first 2. The Knicks never had that for him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Not saying I blame him either!
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.
Oh yes, I blame them the most. This and many similar moves buried the team for 20 years. But I don’t absolve Carmelo. He made a decision to Max his income, which is fine. But by forcing the trade he stripped the team from the ability to build a winner. Carmelo, both in negotiations and in play on the floor is a selfish player. Winning is secondary.
Melo didn't decide what or how many players were going back in the deal. Walsh/Dolan could have negotiated a better deal - and the team could have done a better job building around Melo going forward.
I don't follow Dallas at all, so I didn't know he suddenly has become a significantly better shooter than he ever was for the Knicks. Don't know why anyone would have expected that to happen, though, since he was worthless his entire career prior to last season.
The Knicks traded Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, a 2014 first-round pick and the swap rights in 2016.
- There really was no shot of him coming to the Knicks in free agency. If the Knicks didn't trade for him he was going to be traded to the Lakers or Nets and would sign a extension there. With the lockout coming he was not waiting to free agency.
- The Knicks fatal mistakes in the Melo era was not using the amnesty on Amare, the Bargnani trade and not being prepared to trade for CP3 ( who wanted to come to the Knicks).
Tell me how the package they sent out was an overpay? I just don't understand the narrative that the Melo trade broke up the 1970 Knicks. It would have been nice not to include the 1st round pick but you were trading for an all nba player in his prime.
I would recommend listening to Melo on Wojs podcast. Some really good insight.
Also said the deal to Knicks was basically hashed out during a meeting 2 days before all star game with dolan, melo and masai...There were no talks between new york and denver before that meeting, masai didnt think new york had enough..
Deal was done with Jersey but Melo wanted new york so leon rose called the meeting, the hold up was mozgov and melo basically said you are not going to do the deal becajse of 1 player and the Knicks caved..
So when we saw Melo and Amare laughing at the all star game the deal was already done
well it was slightly more complicated than that. The lockout was looming and nobody knew what "max money" was going to look like - so he wanted to secure his next deal ASAP. I don't blame him one bit.
He wasn't going to sit and wait and then sign as a free agent.
Hopefully they drop three of four - Brooklyn better play two of their big three.
Celts are in a free fall.
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That was always whispered but nice to see it proven.
well it was slightly more complicated than that. The lockout was looming and nobody knew what "max money" was going to look like - so he wanted to secure his next deal ASAP. I don't blame him one bit.
yup this 100%, there were also talk about on rollbacks
Would have been fun, to state the obvious.
Would have been fun, to state the obvious.
I always thought this
He wasn't going to sit and wait and then sign as a free agent.
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
Quote:
But, it does explain why the Knicks traded so much to get a deal done.
He wasn't going to sit and wait and then sign as a free agent.
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up enough that it made it difficult to build anything around him. Look up how many different teammates and starting lineups he played with in NY. Not a coincidence that his biggest success was in a year where they gathered a group of crusty vets around him. And once they were gone they barely did anything.
I think that is true that they did a terrible job of surrounding him with talent. But I don't think the trade was the cause of that. I just think they made some really poor personnel decisions.
But I really don't think the package they sent was an overpay for the type of talent Melo was at 26 years old...
He started disappearing before the deal, the team was in freefall before the deal
White having himself a game thus far.
Quote:
..
White having himself a game thus far.
I haven’t seen a ton of him but in the games I’ve seen, White plays like a player that thinks he’s a million times better than he actually is. He doesn’t lack in confidence, that’s for sure
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
Quote:
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
Again for the millionth time they couldnt just sign Melo, Knicks did not have the cap space..
Knicks had to trade for Melo to get him there was no waiting to get him..
They did not give up a lot, Chandler is a journeyman eho has been hurt a ton, Gallinari hurt a ton, mozgov is playing in Russia and was terrible..Felton ended up back on the knicks 2 years later..
where the Knicks screwed up was signing tyson chandler and amnestying Billups, Chris Paul wanted New York with Melo, if Knicms were patient they could of teamed them up..
It wasnt the Melo deal that screwed the Knicks, it was Knicks management
What could they get for him?
Quote:
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.
this is just lazy nonsense, lol.
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19 *First Game with Melo*
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The guy couldn't show up for the front end of a back to back last night when the team literally hadn't played in over a week! Honestly I know he's not popular at all around here but a guy we really miss from that trade is Hardaway. Dallas basically is on national tv almost every game so I've watched them a ton lately and he's playing really well. He would be a perfect fit playing with Randle. He's a good spot up shooter who's not scared of taking the big shot late in the game.
I think we've seen peak Zinger & it's all downhill from here.
Good player, yes, but his shooting is a flaw. Doesn't have the classic J in his arsenal.
They're all about spacing and making 3s, and you have to give him that he's shooting incredibly well from 3 this year.
. He'd fit right in, but as a secondary player, not a #2 type guy.
I don't think I would trade back those 2 first rounders for KP. It's not even the picks or the assets it's more KP's value and that max deal. I am all but convinced this current regime will find someone to take a max deal and sooner rather than later. KP can go fuck himself into obscurity. Glad I am being proven wrong on this trade.
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In comment 15158848 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.
Oh yes, I blame them the most. This and many similar moves buried the team for 20 years. But I don’t absolve Carmelo. He made a decision to Max his income, which is fine. But by forcing the trade he stripped the team from the ability to build a winner. Carmelo, both in negotiations and in play on the floor is a selfish player. Winning is secondary.
People need to stop with this narrative if Melo waited they could of just added him into cap space
Since he went to Dallas, he's been ok.
I realize you despise him Hreg but take the goggles off for a second. Over 40% from 3 the past 2 seasons is very good shooting. How many guys in the Knick rotation would you prefer taking the open 3 right now when Randle kicks it out to them late? Bullock? RJ? Payton. The only 3point shooters on the roster that even compare to him right now are Quickly or maybe Burks.
Three biggest factors:
1) He significantly reduced the number of contested shots he’s taking.
2) He prioritizes getting to the spots he’s most effective from.
3) Luka Doncic. He draws the defense to him in the lane and then finds Hardaway for open shots.
#3 is almost certainly the biggest factor, as it leads to Hardaway doing the first 2. The Knicks never had that for him.
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In comment 15159086 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15158848 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Did the Knicks really give up a lot? I never understood that narrative...
They gave up a ton. Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Timofy Mozgov (who was later flipped for a #1 pick). Plus two draft picks that turned into Dario Saric and Jamal Murray.
None of those guys are/were superstars, but they were complementary talent that was sorely needed around Carmelo. If he had waited 4 months they could have kept all of that and perhaps even packaged some of it for another star.
So, yes: I blame Carmelo.
not the moron GM and jackass owner that made the deal?
Nobody put a gun to their heads.
Oh yes, I blame them the most. This and many similar moves buried the team for 20 years. But I don’t absolve Carmelo. He made a decision to Max his income, which is fine. But by forcing the trade he stripped the team from the ability to build a winner. Carmelo, both in negotiations and in play on the floor is a selfish player. Winning is secondary.
Melo didn't decide what or how many players were going back in the deal. Walsh/Dolan could have negotiated a better deal - and the team could have done a better job building around Melo going forward.
- There really was no shot of him coming to the Knicks in free agency. If the Knicks didn't trade for him he was going to be traded to the Lakers or Nets and would sign a extension there. With the lockout coming he was not waiting to free agency.
- The Knicks fatal mistakes in the Melo era was not using the amnesty on Amare, the Bargnani trade and not being prepared to trade for CP3 ( who wanted to come to the Knicks).
Tell me how the package they sent out was an overpay? I just don't understand the narrative that the Melo trade broke up the 1970 Knicks. It would have been nice not to include the 1st round pick but you were trading for an all nba player in his prime.
I would recommend listening to Melo on Wojs podcast. Some really good insight.
Trade to the Sixers?
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Lowry could have a MAJOR impact on the title picture
Trade to the Sixers?
The rumor is both the Sixers and LAC have "spoken" to Toroto but Toronto is hesitant to blow it up