Larry Brooks
@NYP_Brooksie
Breaking news: Panarin is taking a leave of absence from NYR in aftermath of political hit piece against him from Russia alleging that he beat up an 18-year-old girl in Russia in 2011.
A leave of absence for what?! If true, could we get some level, any level, of context other than he "beatup an 18 year old girl"?
"Todays' society"?
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
Hotel spokesperson as well as multiple other sources have told me that no such incident has occurred. One person who I spoke to answered with “No, absolutely not. If you look at what Nazarov said and do a little research you’d instantly see through his lies”
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
I have now reached out to local authorities, the hotel that runs the bar in which the alleged incident would have occurred as well as many of Panarin’s former teammates. No response as of right now.
12:50 PM · Feb 22, 2021
Total bullshit, it shows the affect a corrupt dictator has over an entire country, even when you support these creeps, they turn on you the minute you are not doing exactly what they would like. Thank God nothing like that happens in this country.
Sounds right to me. That's how those guys work over there and score political points. Probably lucky Panarin has no known link to Navalny. Actually, we do this ourselves here as well all too often -- Kavanaugh, for example. And then some of us are old enough to remember the McCarthy days ("Are you now or have you ever been . . . ?")
Someone on BSB (I know, I know) made a good point too
It seems unlikely that Latvian authorities would cover up a Russian's assault of a Latvian girl. Russians generally aren't terribly well liked in Latvia.
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
Hotel spokesperson as well as multiple other sources have told me that no such incident has occurred. One person who I spoke to answered with “No, absolutely not. If you look at what Nazarov said and do a little research you’d instantly see through his lies”
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
I have now reached out to local authorities, the hotel that runs the bar in which the alleged incident would have occurred as well as many of Panarin’s former teammates. No response as of right now.
12:50 PM · Feb 22, 2021
Kalniņš is a Latvian reporter who covers the KHL.
This is comforting.
The Rangers better be right when they put out a statement as strong as they did.
Sounds right to me. That's how those guys work over there and score political points. Probably lucky Panarin has no known link to Navalny. Actually, we do this ourselves here as well all too often -- Kavanaugh, for example. And then some of us are old enough to remember the McCarthy days ("Are you now or have you ever been . . . ?")
PS Sorry. but I now see there is a Navalny link. That's pure poison over there right now. Panarin has made himself a target. So they shot at him.
do it he shouldn't take a LOA and yes people should support him - at least his right to defend himself (not sure if Russia has due process), if he did do it why the F would anyone stand up for him?
I wonder if this was leaked quietly and maybe why he wasn't drafted. I always wonder if he was really a late bloomer or if there was more to it. Not saying he wasn't just a late bloomer but this makes you wonder.
Panarin's draft year was 2010 and the alleged incident is 2011.
euros is a lot of money to a Latvian, so maybe that is enough of a motivator.
Where Nazarov maybe have overplayed his hand is by giving dates (if this was made up) it should be easily disproven.
I hope it's false and I hope Panarin is back playing hockey ASAP and his family is safe.
if this was made up, I don't care how much clout the political leadership in Russia has, I question why Nazarov would provide so much detail - when he knows it's not true.
And this happens often over here only the actions and public opinion of the accused vary almost directly with their political alignment. Maybe the threat of murder is different but only I guess to the extent of the scandal.
do it he shouldn't take a LOA and yes people should support him - at least his right to defend himself (not sure if Russia has due process), if he did do it why the F would anyone stand up for him?
I wonder if this was leaked quietly and maybe why he wasn't drafted. I always wonder if he was really a late bloomer or if there was more to it. Not saying he wasn't just a late bloomer but this makes you wonder.
Panarin's draft year was 2010 and the alleged incident is 2011.
There was no age limit on Euro draft picks, so probably a made up story, but many Euro players were not drafted in their respective NA "entry level draft year".
How many people are going to be able to categorically say it's false? Something that far in the past, generally what most people will say is something like "as far as I can remember, it didn't happen." "I've never heard of anything like that" Etc.
I think it's also rather telling that Nazarov has details, but not a name. Time and place is pretty easy to invent. Making up a name isn't, not with any degree of credibility, anyway.
How many people are going to be able to categorically say it's false? Something that far in the past, generally what most people will say is something like "as far as I can remember, it didn't happen." "I've never heard of anything like that" Etc.
I think it's also rather telling that Nazarov has details, but not a name. Time and place is pretty easy to invent. Making up a name isn't, not with any degree of credibility, anyway.
You can spin it whichever way you want to be true.
Who knows if he ever knew the woman's name (if it's true).
If I was a coach and had to bail a player out of a mess, not sure I would know or remember it, but I'd probably remember bailing out the player.
but as you say, it would also be the most verifiable part of the story.
I think the way this goes is no one can corroborate the story, then it didn't happen.
do it he shouldn't take a LOA and yes people should support him - at least his right to defend himself (not sure if Russia has due process), if he did do it why the F would anyone stand up for him?
I wonder if this was leaked quietly and maybe why he wasn't drafted. I always wonder if he was really a late bloomer or if there was more to it. Not saying he wasn't just a late bloomer but this makes you wonder.
Panarin's draft year was 2010 and the alleged incident is 2011.
There was no age limit on Euro draft picks, so probably a made up story, but many Euro players were not drafted in their respective NA "entry level draft year".
Panarin better be careful or a nice Polnium laced tea may be coming his way when he gets home. I believe this is the work of a truly disgusting KGB goon squad and plenty of disinformation.
RE: RE: RE: Anakim, I'm really not understanding your position.
Then why is it coming out 10 years after the fact? And from a notoriously seedy pro-Putin goon, not the woman.
I'm not condoning violence against women. I'm questioning the validity of the allegations and I'm saying that ulterior political motives are behind this coming out now.
Again, I just don't understand why you simply can't address pj's point. Questioning the allegation is perfectly reasonable. He is clearly posing the hypothetical of it being true, and asking you why it would matter that this was dragged up by a jerk who may be politically motivated. It doesn't seem hard to ponder that hypothetical, regardless of how skeptical one is of the allegation.
Mike is right. Any accusation must be investigated. Including 36 year old accusations of high school rape parties.
I mean, nobody but nobody makes things up for political purposes, do they?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Anakim, I'm really not understanding your position.
Then why is it coming out 10 years after the fact? And from a notoriously seedy pro-Putin goon, not the woman.
I'm not condoning violence against women. I'm questioning the validity of the allegations and I'm saying that ulterior political motives are behind this coming out now.
Again, I just don't understand why you simply can't address pj's point. Questioning the allegation is perfectly reasonable. He is clearly posing the hypothetical of it being true, and asking you why it would matter that this was dragged up by a jerk who may be politically motivated. It doesn't seem hard to ponder that hypothetical, regardless of how skeptical one is of the allegation.
Mike is right. Any accusation must be investigated. Including 36 year old accusations of high school rape parties.
I mean, nobody but nobody makes things up for political purposes, do they?
Good point, in the freedom loving USA where even people accused have the right of being innocent until proven guilty, how were those dubious claims handled?
Some people heads are so far up their asses they can see out their own mouth.
if this was made up, I don't care how much clout the political leadership in Russia has, I question why Nazarov would provide so much detail - when he knows it's not true.
Wait, pj, you are the last person, or almost, I could imagine saying something like this. Have you been under a rock, in THIS country, the last two years?
if this was made up, I don't care how much clout the political leadership in Russia has, I question why Nazarov would provide so much detail - when he knows it's not true.
Wait, pj, you are the last person, or almost, I could imagine saying something like this. Have you been under a rock, in THIS country, the last two years?
with this much detail and no "victim" it's easily disproven is my point. If he wanted to emulate the past few years in the US he would have had a victim lie, and provide almost no details so they couldn't prove it didn't happen.
this is the opposite of what has happened in the US on this topic.
the incident is true--aside from the possible, likely likely, bullying overtones of an ex-KGB apparatchik throwing his weight around here in the US, something he's done a lot of lately in many different ways--I want to pose a question to those who are outspoken on the outrage of this (and in the TDA thread I did not hold back from questioning whether BBI was an apt forum for establishing the bona fides of a female reporter who went dark rather than come out at the time (Favre incident)):
If the allegation is true and that something along the lines of the bar knockout is true, which I think there are many takes to believe it is not (not least the NYR Statement): how accountable--i.e., the severity and nature of sanctions for this behavior 11 years after the fact? For those who would cut ties with Panarin over this (if true), you are saying that 10 years and good (maybe stellar) behavior since would not mitigate the penalty, the punishment, you'd throw him out of your life and urge the Rangers to cut him?
I'm not sure I could get to that point, after ten years.
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
Hotel spokesperson as well as multiple other sources have told me that no such incident has occurred. One person who I spoke to answered with “No, absolutely not. If you look at what Nazarov said and do a little research you’d instantly see through his lies”
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
I have now reached out to local authorities, the hotel that runs the bar in which the alleged incident would have occurred as well as many of Panarin’s former teammates. No response as of right now.
12:50 PM · Feb 22, 2021
Kalniņš is a Latvian reporter who covers the KHL.
Is he not afraid to report the truth?
RE: in terms of investigation to establish whether
the incident is true--aside from the possible, likely likely, bullying overtones of an ex-KGB apparatchik throwing his weight around here in the US, something he's done a lot of lately in many different ways--I want to pose a question to those who are outspoken on the outrage of this (and in the TDA thread I did not hold back from questioning whether BBI was an apt forum for establishing the bona fides of a female reporter who went dark rather than come out at the time (Favre incident)):
If the allegation is true and that something along the lines of the bar knockout is true, which I think there are many takes to believe it is not (not least the NYR Statement): how accountable--i.e., the severity and nature of sanctions for this behavior 11 years after the fact? For those who would cut ties with Panarin over this (if true), you are saying that 10 years and good (maybe stellar) behavior since would not mitigate the penalty, the punishment, you'd throw him out of your life and urge the Rangers to cut him?
I'm not sure I could get to that point, after ten years.
This is a good question and a great discussion and I don't think it's one for this forum unfortunately.
But it's sad but true in 2021 (in the USA) that mob rules and the mob dictates what infractions warrant the "death penalty".
Some people and some infractions are beyond redemption, other people just have to issue a half-hearted apology (not for assault per se, but in general), but I don't make the rules.
sadly in this case, the 'victim' may be irrelevant
My point--and how I read your earlier post--was that the lack of veracity poses no impediment to the lie, which can be made with impunity and little if any price to be paid, for the lie. That likely frames the game for the accuser: tell the lie, make it very public, the accused is shamed, goes in hiding, whatever, but no price to be paid for the lie. Putin's methodology is similar enough to current practices here so that I need not split hairs if Artemi's victim is nowhere to be found.
RE: sadly in this case, the 'victim' may be irrelevant
My point--and how I read your earlier post--was that the lack of veracity poses no impediment to the lie, which can be made with impunity and little if any price to be paid, for the lie. That likely frames the game for the accuser: tell the lie, make it very public, the accused is shamed, goes in hiding, whatever, but no price to be paid for the lie. Putin's methodology is similar enough to current practices here so that I need not split hairs if Artemi's victim is nowhere to be found.
No, my point was simply by providing the details Nazarov did that incident could be easily proven to be false (even being bribed there could/should still be arrest details but he went beyond the arrest and said there was a criminal trial and a conviction - this isn't something I'd expect would be hard to verify/disprove in Latvia from 2011) , so I was surprised that if it is in fact made up, he went there with the accusation details when usually when these claims are made up they are deceptively specious and hard to disprove.
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Then what's the reason for leaving? Either the team doesn't want to deal with the cancel culture mob that's sure to follow or Panarin's guilty as hell. Given his adamant denial of the claim, I'm leaning towards the former.
Give me some reason other than pure speculation here.
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Then what's the reason for leaving? Either the team doesn't want to deal with the cancel culture mob that's sure to follow or Panarin's guilty as hell. Given his adamant denial of the claim, I'm leaning towards the former.
Give me some reason other than pure speculation here.
Give me a break. "Cancel culture" is just as bad as "blame the media" -- people will use it as an excuse for whatever they don't like.
If "cancel culture" was to blame here, then the Rangers statement would not be as strongly worded and would have completely different content. Like, 100% different messaging and content. That alone just shows that cancel culture is totally irrelevant.
IIRC, his grandparents are there. The person who was talking about raising his profile probably is on to something. This story is a non-story in Russia, nobody gives a shit about domestic violence in Russia. It was designed to hurt him in the West, and hopefully it doesn't work, but I think Panarin is trying to take time away to make sure his family overseas is going to be okay.
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Then what's the reason for leaving? Either the team doesn't want to deal with the cancel culture mob that's sure to follow or Panarin's guilty as hell.
Why is it ONLY one of those two options? You don't think there's any other possibility at all?
Panarin spoke out about the Russian Government, in particular a man who has been known to exact deadly reprisals on political opponents who do the same thing.
Breaking it down to "it's just the twitter and facebook mob" or "he must be guilty" is oversimplifying it.
At the time of the alleged incident he was not even a known prospect. He was not drafted in the two prior drafts, so why would his team pay that much to cover something up for what they thought was an average player?
"Todays' society"?
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
Hotel spokesperson as well as multiple other sources have told me that no such incident has occurred. One person who I spoke to answered with “No, absolutely not. If you look at what Nazarov said and do a little research you’d instantly see through his lies”
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
I have now reached out to local authorities, the hotel that runs the bar in which the alleged incident would have occurred as well as many of Panarin’s former teammates. No response as of right now.
12:50 PM · Feb 22, 2021
Kalniņš is a Latvian reporter who covers the KHL.
Quote:
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
Hotel spokesperson as well as multiple other sources have told me that no such incident has occurred. One person who I spoke to answered with “No, absolutely not. If you look at what Nazarov said and do a little research you’d instantly see through his lies”
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
I have now reached out to local authorities, the hotel that runs the bar in which the alleged incident would have occurred as well as many of Panarin’s former teammates. No response as of right now.
12:50 PM · Feb 22, 2021
Kalniņš is a Latvian reporter who covers the KHL.
This is comforting.
The Rangers better be right when they put out a statement as strong as they did.
PS Sorry. but I now see there is a Navalny link. That's pure poison over there right now. Panarin has made himself a target. So they shot at him.
I wonder if this was leaked quietly and maybe why he wasn't drafted. I always wonder if he was really a late bloomer or if there was more to it. Not saying he wasn't just a late bloomer but this makes you wonder.
Panarin's draft year was 2010 and the alleged incident is 2011.
Where Nazarov maybe have overplayed his hand is by giving dates (if this was made up) it should be easily disproven.
I hope it's false and I hope Panarin is back playing hockey ASAP and his family is safe.
if this was made up, I don't care how much clout the political leadership in Russia has, I question why Nazarov would provide so much detail - when he knows it's not true.
And this happens often over here only the actions and public opinion of the accused vary almost directly with their political alignment. Maybe the threat of murder is different but only I guess to the extent of the scandal.
Quote:
do it he shouldn't take a LOA and yes people should support him - at least his right to defend himself (not sure if Russia has due process), if he did do it why the F would anyone stand up for him?
I wonder if this was leaked quietly and maybe why he wasn't drafted. I always wonder if he was really a late bloomer or if there was more to it. Not saying he wasn't just a late bloomer but this makes you wonder.
Panarin's draft year was 2010 and the alleged incident is 2011.
There was no age limit on Euro draft picks, so probably a made up story, but many Euro players were not drafted in their respective NA "entry level draft year".
I think it's also rather telling that Nazarov has details, but not a name. Time and place is pretty easy to invent. Making up a name isn't, not with any degree of credibility, anyway.
I think it's also rather telling that Nazarov has details, but not a name. Time and place is pretty easy to invent. Making up a name isn't, not with any degree of credibility, anyway.
You can spin it whichever way you want to be true.
Who knows if he ever knew the woman's name (if it's true).
If I was a coach and had to bail a player out of a mess, not sure I would know or remember it, but I'd probably remember bailing out the player.
but as you say, it would also be the most verifiable part of the story.
I think the way this goes is no one can corroborate the story, then it didn't happen.
Quote:
In comment 15158521 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
do it he shouldn't take a LOA and yes people should support him - at least his right to defend himself (not sure if Russia has due process), if he did do it why the F would anyone stand up for him?
I wonder if this was leaked quietly and maybe why he wasn't drafted. I always wonder if he was really a late bloomer or if there was more to it. Not saying he wasn't just a late bloomer but this makes you wonder.
Panarin's draft year was 2010 and the alleged incident is 2011.
There was no age limit on Euro draft picks, so probably a made up story, but many Euro players were not drafted in their respective NA "entry level draft year".
Thanks I forgot about that.
Quote:
Then why is it coming out 10 years after the fact? And from a notoriously seedy pro-Putin goon, not the woman.
I'm not condoning violence against women. I'm questioning the validity of the allegations and I'm saying that ulterior political motives are behind this coming out now.
Again, I just don't understand why you simply can't address pj's point. Questioning the allegation is perfectly reasonable. He is clearly posing the hypothetical of it being true, and asking you why it would matter that this was dragged up by a jerk who may be politically motivated. It doesn't seem hard to ponder that hypothetical, regardless of how skeptical one is of the allegation.
Mike is right. Any accusation must be investigated. Including 36 year old accusations of high school rape parties.
I mean, nobody but nobody makes things up for political purposes, do they?
Quote:
In comment 15158581 Anakim said:
Quote:
Then why is it coming out 10 years after the fact? And from a notoriously seedy pro-Putin goon, not the woman.
I'm not condoning violence against women. I'm questioning the validity of the allegations and I'm saying that ulterior political motives are behind this coming out now.
Again, I just don't understand why you simply can't address pj's point. Questioning the allegation is perfectly reasonable. He is clearly posing the hypothetical of it being true, and asking you why it would matter that this was dragged up by a jerk who may be politically motivated. It doesn't seem hard to ponder that hypothetical, regardless of how skeptical one is of the allegation.
Mike is right. Any accusation must be investigated. Including 36 year old accusations of high school rape parties.
I mean, nobody but nobody makes things up for political purposes, do they?
Good point, in the freedom loving USA where even people accused have the right of being innocent until proven guilty, how were those dubious claims handled?
Some people heads are so far up their asses they can see out their own mouth.
Quote:
if this was made up, I don't care how much clout the political leadership in Russia has, I question why Nazarov would provide so much detail - when he knows it's not true.
Wait, pj, you are the last person, or almost, I could imagine saying something like this. Have you been under a rock, in THIS country, the last two years?
with this much detail and no "victim" it's easily disproven is my point. If he wanted to emulate the past few years in the US he would have had a victim lie, and provide almost no details so they couldn't prove it didn't happen.
this is the opposite of what has happened in the US on this topic.
If the allegation is true and that something along the lines of the bar knockout is true, which I think there are many takes to believe it is not (not least the NYR Statement): how accountable--i.e., the severity and nature of sanctions for this behavior 11 years after the fact? For those who would cut ties with Panarin over this (if true), you are saying that 10 years and good (maybe stellar) behavior since would not mitigate the penalty, the punishment, you'd throw him out of your life and urge the Rangers to cut him?
I'm not sure I could get to that point, after ten years.
Quote:
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
Hotel spokesperson as well as multiple other sources have told me that no such incident has occurred. One person who I spoke to answered with “No, absolutely not. If you look at what Nazarov said and do a little research you’d instantly see through his lies”
Aivis Kalniņš
@aiviskalnins
I have now reached out to local authorities, the hotel that runs the bar in which the alleged incident would have occurred as well as many of Panarin’s former teammates. No response as of right now.
12:50 PM · Feb 22, 2021
Kalniņš is a Latvian reporter who covers the KHL.
If the allegation is true and that something along the lines of the bar knockout is true, which I think there are many takes to believe it is not (not least the NYR Statement): how accountable--i.e., the severity and nature of sanctions for this behavior 11 years after the fact? For those who would cut ties with Panarin over this (if true), you are saying that 10 years and good (maybe stellar) behavior since would not mitigate the penalty, the punishment, you'd throw him out of your life and urge the Rangers to cut him?
I'm not sure I could get to that point, after ten years.
This is a good question and a great discussion and I don't think it's one for this forum unfortunately.
But it's sad but true in 2021 (in the USA) that mob rules and the mob dictates what infractions warrant the "death penalty".
Some people and some infractions are beyond redemption, other people just have to issue a half-hearted apology (not for assault per se, but in general), but I don't make the rules.
My point--and how I read your earlier post--was that the lack of veracity poses no impediment to the lie, which can be made with impunity and little if any price to be paid, for the lie. That likely frames the game for the accuser: tell the lie, make it very public, the accused is shamed, goes in hiding, whatever, but no price to be paid for the lie. Putin's methodology is similar enough to current practices here so that I need not split hairs if Artemi's victim is nowhere to be found.
My point--and how I read your earlier post--was that the lack of veracity poses no impediment to the lie, which can be made with impunity and little if any price to be paid, for the lie. That likely frames the game for the accuser: tell the lie, make it very public, the accused is shamed, goes in hiding, whatever, but no price to be paid for the lie. Putin's methodology is similar enough to current practices here so that I need not split hairs if Artemi's victim is nowhere to be found.
No, my point was simply by providing the details Nazarov did that incident could be easily proven to be false (even being bribed there could/should still be arrest details but he went beyond the arrest and said there was a criminal trial and a conviction - this isn't something I'd expect would be hard to verify/disprove in Latvia from 2011) , so I was surprised that if it is in fact made up, he went there with the accusation details when usually when these claims are made up they are deceptively specious and hard to disprove.
that was it.
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Then what's the reason for leaving? Either the team doesn't want to deal with the cancel culture mob that's sure to follow or Panarin's guilty as hell. Given his adamant denial of the claim, I'm leaning towards the former.
Give me some reason other than pure speculation here.
Quote:
"Todays' society"?
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Then what's the reason for leaving? Either the team doesn't want to deal with the cancel culture mob that's sure to follow or Panarin's guilty as hell. Given his adamant denial of the claim, I'm leaning towards the former.
Give me some reason other than pure speculation here.
If "cancel culture" was to blame here, then the Rangers statement would not be as strongly worded and would have completely different content. Like, 100% different messaging and content. That alone just shows that cancel culture is totally irrelevant.
IIRC, his grandparents are there. The person who was talking about raising his profile probably is on to something. This story is a non-story in Russia, nobody gives a shit about domestic violence in Russia. It was designed to hurt him in the West, and hopefully it doesn't work, but I think Panarin is trying to take time away to make sure his family overseas is going to be okay.
Quote:
"Todays' society"?
If you're reading this and your first reaction is to agitation towards some sort of perceived "cancel culture" I would wager that your feelings are misdirected, in this case at least.
Then what's the reason for leaving? Either the team doesn't want to deal with the cancel culture mob that's sure to follow or Panarin's guilty as hell.
Why is it ONLY one of those two options? You don't think there's any other possibility at all?
Breaking it down to "it's just the twitter and facebook mob" or "he must be guilty" is oversimplifying it.
Seriously? I asked:
To which you don't provide any other reason yet admonish me for not believing other reasons exist. Awesome.