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Why is Golden Tate still a Giant?

MtDizzle : 2/22/2021 2:39 pm
Seriously what is taking so long? I haven’t looked this much forward to someone getting their walking papers quite possibly ever.
Probably to spread his cap hit out over  
allstarjim : 2/22/2021 2:46 pm : link
the next two seasons. What's your hurry? It's February. League year doesn't even start for another 3+ weeks.
Well...  
Johnny5 : 2/22/2021 2:46 pm : link
... I think he is done here... but that said there are quite a few FAs we have had over the years that I would see (have seen) terminated well before Golden Tate... lol
this would be a good question  
OdellBeckhamJr : 2/22/2021 2:55 pm : link
if he was still on the roster after the draft.

nobody has been cut yet
As usless as Tate is, I think I prefer EE off the team more.  
penkap75 : 2/22/2021 2:56 pm : link
Tate is mostly invisible, but does on occasion he comes up a clutch catch or TD.

EE actively loses games for us.
What, do we need to clear a roster spot  
John In CO : 2/22/2021 3:02 pm : link
for next weeks game??? Whats the difference if they let him go now or 4 months from now? Relax, its gonna happen.
I’d rather the Giants  
JoeyBigBlue : 2/22/2021 3:22 pm : link
Cut him already and the the cap hit this year. I don’t want this guy anywhere near the cap number for 2022.
Jeez, people have 0 patience  
aimrocky : 2/22/2021 3:25 pm : link
he won't be on the final roster. There are many factors at play that the experts are privy to. Relax and enjoy the rest of your day.
RE: What, do we need to clear a roster spot  
mfsd : 2/22/2021 3:27 pm : link
In comment 15158779 John In CO said:
Quote:
for next weeks game??? Whats the difference if they let him go now or 4 months from now? Relax, its gonna happen.


haha exactly
Why TF  
Big Blue '56 : 2/22/2021 3:51 pm : link
does it matter WHEN he’s released?
I'm sure some of these cuts  
Beer Man : 2/22/2021 4:09 pm : link
the Giants will string along to see if there is something they get in a trade
RE: As usless as Tate is, I think I prefer EE off the team more.  
Angel Eyes : 2/22/2021 4:39 pm : link
In comment 15158772 penkap75 said:
Quote:
Tate is mostly invisible, but does on occasion he comes up a clutch catch or TD.

EE actively loses games for us.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what the front office and the coaching staff sees in Engram. He's fast, but that's all he has; he has stone hands/butterfingers, poor at blocking, and at least once overthinks things. Case in point for the latter: in the Week 7 Philadelphia game this year, he did an in-route before doing a cutback out. If he had gone straight, he would have been in a better position to catch that ball and put the game out of reach.
RE: RE: As usless as Tate is, I think I prefer EE off the team more.  
FStubbs : 2/22/2021 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15158879 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15158772 penkap75 said:


Quote:


Tate is mostly invisible, but does on occasion he comes up a clutch catch or TD.

EE actively loses games for us.


I'll be honest, I'm not sure what the front office and the coaching staff sees in Engram. He's fast, but that's all he has; he has stone hands/butterfingers, poor at blocking, and at least once overthinks things. Case in point for the latter: in the Week 7 Philadelphia game this year, he did an in-route before doing a cutback out. If he had gone straight, he would have been in a better position to catch that ball and put the game out of reach.


THe only thing I can think is the guy must be a beast in practice.
Because they are going to keep him here  
djm : 2/22/2021 4:42 pm : link
.. is that the answer you want to hear? Perhaps it’s just a timing issue?

I know it’s hard to fathom but these are people were talking about. Blood will be spilled don’t worry.
RE: As usless as Tate is, I think I prefer EE off the team more.  
djm : 2/22/2021 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15158772 penkap75 said:
Quote:
Tate is mostly invisible, but does on occasion he comes up a clutch catch or TD.

EE actively loses games for us.


EE also won games for us this year. Tate did nothing but yeah, he didn’t have a noticeable drop or two so he’s got that going for him.

If you think Tate was a better player than Engram, man, I don’t know...
RE: RE: RE: As usless as Tate is, I think I prefer EE off the team more.  
Angel Eyes : 2/22/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15158885 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15158879 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15158772 penkap75 said:


Quote:


Tate is mostly invisible, but does on occasion he comes up a clutch catch or TD.

EE actively loses games for us.


I'll be honest, I'm not sure what the front office and the coaching staff sees in Engram. He's fast, but that's all he has; he has stone hands/butterfingers, poor at blocking, and at least once overthinks things. Case in point for the latter: in the Week 7 Philadelphia game this year, he did an in-route before doing a cutback out. If he had gone straight, he would have been in a better position to catch that ball and put the game out of reach.



THe only thing I can think is the guy must be a beast in practice.

So was Carter.
RE: Why TF  
UConn4523 : 2/22/2021 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15158833 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
does it matter WHEN he’s released?


Because THAT would send a statement!

I don't get these threads either. If he's cut it will happen when it happens. We can't sign anyone right now (free agents that is) so there's no rush to do anything.
Explain  
UGADawgs7 : 2/22/2021 4:58 pm : link
Is the dead cap hit less after June 1 because it’s spread out over 2 seasons, so there’s a dead cap hit for 22 as well? If that’s the case sometimes it’s better for the higher dead cap hit prior to June 1.
......  
Route 9 : 2/22/2021 5:06 pm : link
Better question: why was he ever a Giant?

Better question: why did the Giants get rid of OBJ and signed Tate, lol?

Better better question: why is Engram still a Giant?
RE: ......  
Angel Eyes : 2/22/2021 5:33 pm : link
In comment 15158918 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Better question: why was he ever a Giant?

Better question: why did the Giants get rid of OBJ and signed Tate, lol?

Better better question: why is Engram still a Giant?

1. We were desperate for WRs.

2. Gettleman wanted to change the locker room culture. Small luck that did.

3. There must be something about Engram that Judge and Garrett like about him and think is worth keeping around. What is it? Search me.
......  
Route 9 : 2/22/2021 5:34 pm : link
Number one's answer is very depressing.
RE: ......  
Angel Eyes : 2/22/2021 5:39 pm : link
In comment 15158948 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Number one's answer is very depressing.

Can't think of anything else that would make sense.

Does anyone know why we didn't draft a wide receiver in the 2020 draft? From what I heard it was a deep class and for reasons unknown to me we didn't try and take advantage of that.
UGAdawg  
fkap : 2/22/2021 6:41 pm : link
you understand the cap implications correctly. The dead cap hit is the same overall. The difference is when it is applied.

I see way too many people advocate for the post June 1st hit, because there is a bigger cap savings, not mentioning that there is a simultaneous loss of cap space in year two.

If it is necessary, or it's a preference to do the accounting that way, fine. But you don't save more by spreading it out. There's no penalty, either, as the dead money is the same either way. It's just how you want to apply it. I prefer to just take the cap hit now, and not borrow from the future.
We're still desperate for WR talent  
JonC : 2/23/2021 9:01 am : link
If there's any way Golladay or other reaches UFA, I fully expect DG to throw the big overpay money at him.
RE: RE: ......  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 9:08 am : link
In comment 15158953 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15158948 Route 9 said:


Quote:


Number one's answer is very depressing.


Can't think of anything else that would make sense.

Does anyone know why we didn't draft a wide receiver in the 2020 draft? From what I heard it was a deep class and for reasons unknown to me we didn't try and take advantage of that.


A year ago Darius Slayton was a significantly better-looking player.

Also, the Giants have tendency to assume their players will get better every year. They didn't appear to have planned for the possibility that the 19th ranked offense in the NFL might not improve.
I would think that Judge, the staff  
section125 : 2/23/2021 9:14 am : link
and DG are evaluating the players and whether it has any benefits to retaining him.
Another tremendous thread started by Dizzle  
PatersonPlank : 2/23/2021 9:15 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: ......  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 9:23 am : link
In comment 15159246 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15158953 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15158948 Route 9 said:


Quote:


Number one's answer is very depressing.


Can't think of anything else that would make sense.

Does anyone know why we didn't draft a wide receiver in the 2020 draft? From what I heard it was a deep class and for reasons unknown to me we didn't try and take advantage of that.



A year ago Darius Slayton was a significantly better-looking player.

Also, the Giants have tendency to assume their players will get better every year. They didn't appear to have planned for the possibility that the 19th ranked offense in the NFL might not improve.


I don' think Slayton progressed much if any, but did he really regress? His numbers are pretty close year over year sans the decline in TD receptions. But should that be pinned on him or how the Offense functioned? Did he have drops in the red/end zone during season?
Slayton played hurt  
JonC : 2/23/2021 9:29 am : link
willing to give a partial pass in that aspect, but he disappeared for long stretches which was a college knock on him.
I don't want to say 'regressed' because then people will jump on it  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 9:33 am : link
as if I'm attacking him.

Whether he was hurt or not, I don't know. Some say that. But he's struggled on plays other than long, downfield routes when he faces a CB that gets physical with him. Maybe it's more accurate to say the league learned how to cover him.
Because Dave sits in office for hours  
ghost718 : 2/23/2021 10:11 am : link
Thinking up ways to piss you off
RE: I don't want to say 'regressed' because then people will jump on it  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15159284 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
as if I'm attacking him.

Whether he was hurt or not, I don't know. Some say that. But he's struggled on plays other than long, downfield routes when he faces a CB that gets physical with him. Maybe it's more accurate to say the league learned how to cover him.


Agree, especially as to his weakness getting off jams at the LoS and such.

Didn't want to suggest you were jumping on him, only a lot of sentiments I have read lately suggesting fans here are down on him.

He was a 5th rounder, played well above that as a rookie. Played similarly again with a bad offense and a poorly playing second year QB. He gets lost sometimes because the rest of the Offense gets lost.

Can Slayton rise up to another notch...maybe. But the expectation issues seem more likely a fan issue than anything imv.
Btw - I seem to recall a night game versus Tampa when  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 10:28 am : link
Slayton probably could have added a few touchdowns to his total if our second-year QB and Offensive Tackles held up their end of the bargain.

Slayton is a decent WR. He could certainly develop his game further but he is at least a cheap functioning part of the WR/TE corps. Which is more than I could say for the rest...
He's definitely a keeper. As a 5th round pick it's already a success  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 10:30 am : link
but knowing what we know now, the talk of him being a #2 WR is really trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Of course he could develop further.
The stupidity here...  
EricJ : 2/23/2021 10:31 am : link
or to be fair, lack of awareness of the timing of when to release players and its effect on negotiations with other players (and the draft) is astonishing.
Slayton to me is Mario Manningham type  
djm : 2/23/2021 10:57 am : link
he can fill in as a #2 or even a #1 for a game or two, but the offense has to do a lot of other things well to sort of cover up his weaknesses. IN a perfect world, he's starting on one side with a guy like Nicks or Plax or Beckham on the other side with Shepard in the slot.

Slayton also might just need another year of seasoning but the offense likely needs to help him more than he needs to help the offense.
I suspect Tate will be cut at some point,  
Section331 : 2/23/2021 11:17 am : link
but he was pretty good last year. Maybe he is aging in dog years, but maybe we are ignoring the elephant in the room - why did the offense perform so much worse this season than it did previously, with pretty much the same cast, and an (if ever so slightly) improved OL?
RE: I suspect Tate will be cut at some point,  
EricJ : 2/23/2021 11:26 am : link
In comment 15159420 Section331 said:
Quote:
but he was pretty good last year. Maybe he is aging in dog years, but maybe we are ignoring the elephant in the room - why did the offense perform so much worse this season than it did previously, with pretty much the same cast, and an (if ever so slightly) improved OL?


I have no love for Tate. He is a poker chip though and needs to be treated as such. We have people here playing poker with emotion and not with their head. The same is going on over in the Evan Engram thread.
RE: I suspect Tate will be cut at some point,  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 11:26 am : link
In comment 15159420 Section331 said:
Quote:
but he was pretty good last year. Maybe he is aging in dog years, but maybe we are ignoring the elephant in the room - why did the offense perform so much worse this season than it did previously, with pretty much the same cast, and an (if ever so slightly) improved OL?


Well amongst other things, having Saquon less available and Evan Engram more seems to be a bad mix...
RE: RE: RE: RE: ......  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/23/2021 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15159266 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15159246 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 15158953 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15158948 Route 9 said:


Quote:


Number one's answer is very depressing.


Can't think of anything else that would make sense.

Does anyone know why we didn't draft a wide receiver in the 2020 draft? From what I heard it was a deep class and for reasons unknown to me we didn't try and take advantage of that.



A year ago Darius Slayton was a significantly better-looking player.

Also, the Giants have tendency to assume their players will get better every year. They didn't appear to have planned for the possibility that the 19th ranked offense in the NFL might not improve.



I don' think Slayton progressed much if any, but did he really regress? His numbers are pretty close year over year sans the decline in TD receptions. But should that be pinned on him or how the Offense functioned? Did he have drops in the red/end zone during season?

This is a good point. Other than in extremely productive offenses (think Greatest Show on Turf kind of productivity), WR TDs seem to have a fair amount of volatility to them. There are just so many variables when the field gets short that a WR can go from 8 TDs to 3 TDs YOY but not actually be materially worse in terms of their level of play.

That said, the expectation is that those TDs find another home (maybe they become rushing TDs, maybe the team gets into a rhythm with a big-bodied TE in the red zone, etc.), so when the decline coincides with a decline in the offense's production in general, you do have to at least consider whether the WR's decrease in TD output was part of the cause or effect of the offense's decline, IMO.

I'm not sure where Slayton lands on that spectrum, but I do know that when I look at him, I think he's the poster child for a player that Giants fans overrate because he's the best of a bad bunch. He'd be a very good backup on a very good offensive team, IMO.
RE: RE: I suspect Tate will be cut at some point,  
Section331 : 2/23/2021 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15159437 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


Well amongst other things, having Saquon less available and Evan Engram more seems to be a bad mix...


So the difference between being a middle of the pack offense and dead last is Saquon Barkley? Come on, that is ridiculous. And last I checked, EE played last year too.
RE: Jeez, people have 0 patience  
Big Al : 2/23/2021 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15158803 aimrocky said:
Quote:
he won't be on the final roster. There are many factors at play that the experts are privy to. Relax and enjoy the rest of your day.
We need cuts and signings NOW. I cannot wait to express joy or laugh at the stupidity of the powers that be:

One of the engines that drive the board.
RE: RE: RE: I suspect Tate will be cut at some point,  
Jimmy Googs : 2/23/2021 1:52 pm : link
In comment 15159594 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15159437 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:




Well amongst other things, having Saquon less available and Evan Engram more seems to be a bad mix...



So the difference between being a middle of the pack offense and dead last is Saquon Barkley? Come on, that is ridiculous. And last I checked, EE played last year too.


Maybe if I say it louder...AMONGST OTHER THINGS

And Engram played in half the games in 2019.

Oh, and the Giants Ranking in Yards Per Game went from 23rd to 31st. Not really middle of the pack and not really dead last.

So other than those things, your post was solid. :-)
RE: RE: Jeez, people have 0 patience  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/23/2021 1:53 pm : link
In comment 15159613 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15158803 aimrocky said:


Quote:


he won't be on the final roster. There are many factors at play that the experts are privy to. Relax and enjoy the rest of your day.

We need cuts and signings NOW. I cannot wait to express joy or laugh at the stupidity of the powers that be:

One of the engines that drive the board.


lol
RE: RE: Jeez, people have 0 patience  
Gatorade Dunk : 2/23/2021 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15159613 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15158803 aimrocky said:


Quote:


he won't be on the final roster. There are many factors at play that the experts are privy to. Relax and enjoy the rest of your day.

We need cuts and signings NOW. I cannot wait to express joy or laugh at the stupidity of the powers that be:

One of the engines that drive the board.

It's weird how you only pop up to post at the times of the year that give you an opportunity to be wrong.

In any case, there is close to no benefit to keeping Tate on the roster right now unless keeping Tate on the roster for 2021 is in play. And if that's the case, it's worrisome.

Cutting veterans whose future with a team is fait accompli is commonplace, and is a courtesy extended to player and agent to allow them to plan their future properly. Delaying that serves no purpose if there isn't a possibility that the player is going to be on the roster the following season.

So while you're relaxing and enjoying the rest of your day, are you content with the possibility of Tate rejoining the Giants in 2021?
I think both LW and DT will be re-signed and Lawrence will blossom  
SGMen : 2/27/2021 9:05 pm : link
This defense will have a deep DL. We need a pass rushing LB and a CB. I think our safeties will be awesome if Xavier can play 16 games.

Tate is as good as gone.
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